help me with this fill please

[NUTHA JASON]

for my grade 8 i have to pull this fill off neatly (see below) in the middle of a piece but at 145 bpm.

i started out learning it with half as many notes as triplets and then double stroking the triplets to make the 6s like so:

RRLLRR LLRRLL RRLLRR LLRRLL

But the snag comes when i try to move from my tom2 down to tom3 between the last two sextuplets. my left hand has to come underneath my right at breakneck speed while my right diddles and get down to the floor tom to neatly diddle itself. i've been doing this for weeks and i still get a drop in volume and neatness at this junction.

today i tried to play the fill hand to hand like so:

RLRLRL RLRLRL RLRLRL RLRLRL

and i was much neater at slow tempos but i don't know if i have the chops to get that at 145 bpm.

if it were you, which sticking would you do?

j

[Ozzy Biz]

I'd be going with singles as they are much more consistent, stronger, and faster for me;my doubles aren't too flash.

I'd jsut chose one (probably singles) and practise until you get it fluent and precise.

[nebula821]

I would do singles as well. Good Luck!

[Wavelength]

Use singles or the Paradiddle-diddle sticking. The benefit of the latter is that during the left hand's double stroke you'll have more time to move the right hand for the crash, ride, hi-hat or whatever you're going to play on the ONE of the next measure.

[montxo]

Another sticking >> Double Paradiddle :

RLRLRR LRLRLL ......

Good luck

[SickRick]

At that Tempo it is the Single Stroke Pattern - no doubt. That way you will not have to cross hands and you'll get a much more consistent and powerfull sound. From the singles I have seen from you (I think you played some in one vid months back) you should be able to pull that off easily. It is not that fast.
Just remember to position your toms in a way that is comfortable for you to play and you'll be fine.

You might want to practise Moeller Pull-Out accents or the Pumping Motion (however you call it) around the toms to get it more fluent. JoJo Mayer demonstrates that in one of his new Videos, I'm sure you've seen it.

Good luck anyway!

[jonescrusher]

Stick with singles, as they will give the smoothness in tone a grade examiner will be looking for. Paradiddle combinations will take more time to get to a decent standard, and you may stand a higher chance of getting tangled, leading to an abortive attempt.

Don't know how much time you have to prepare until the exam, but start by incorporating some dedicating practice time to the fill, both on the pad and the kit. I like to use these kind of kit fills as warmups any way. First I would play single groups of triplets on each different voice, so from snare to floor tom, and then back around from floor ton to snare. This will, over time, improve your movement from each voice. Then move to playing each group of sextuplet on each voice, as prescribed by the fill.

Obviously, you need to start at a very slow tempo. Don't move up until you've repeat the fill at least twenty times, each time perfect, no errant accents, stick clashes, missing the drum etc. In a surpirsingly short amount of time, if you do this every day, you'll reach your required tempo.


Another thing, if you only practice on an ekit, it's very important to get at least a couple of practice sessions on real drums before the exam. If you don't, the diffference in stick response, especiall on fills of this nature, could take you by surprise. not something you want to happen in the exam.

Practice is important. I've seen so many guys play a piece and blatantly get worried in the build up to a big kit fill. This usually ends up with the fill being horribly rushed. So relax. You knew this already ;)

[jonescrusher]

Yes, Sick makes a good point there about using the Moeller triple stroke as a primer to this kind of fill. If you haven't already, watch the Jojo clip on DW where he talks about the whipping triple stroke around the kit. This really sorts out hand movements around the drums.

[NUTHA JASON]

thanks very much guys - i love all of yer. the drumming community rules.

yes, i think i will go for singles. and sickrick, you're right. i just went and set the metronome at 100, then 120, then 135 and 145 and i could do it ... not neat enough but that's a matter of a few day's practice.

it's weird how i initially went straight for triplets (comfort zone) here but the positive outcome is that my septuplet rolls have had a work out so its no bad thing (i believe buddy used these a lot). but for orchestration its clear to me now that single strokes work better.

ta

j

[NUTHA JASON]

and jones crusher, that's good davice. i have a progress chart for each piece and parts of each piece. the last part of each chart has a section with check points like so:

[ . ] good play through on ekit
[ . ] performed for Agi on ekit
[ . ] videoed on ekit for website
[ . ] practiced on real kit
[ . ] good play through on real kit
[ . ] exam ready on real kit

j

[shuffle]

I practice this fill quite often, and at high tempos, I often go with RLRRLL on the snare and high tom, and then single strokes and the other toms.

Just another idea for you.

[NUTHA JASON]

its a good pattern RLRRLL and a good idea to do both and switch over whenever needed but at the moment i'm trying to simplyfy everything around the grade as much as possible. i want to get beyond sticking concerns and chops issues so i can concentrate on the feel of these pieces. for the first time in my career i have a real goal for my drumming and it is wonderful but bloody hard work.

j

[jonescrusher]

[ . ] good play through on ekit
[ . ] performed for Agi on ekit
[ . ] videoed on ekit for website
[ . ] practiced on real kit
[ . ] good play through on real kit
[ . ] exam ready on real kit

j

If you go through all this, i've no doubt you should come through with a distinction. What exam board are you doing? Rockschool?

[Just Drums]

(IMHO) - The paradiddle-diddle. Without a doubt. Easy rudiment to play at break neck speeds. I just tried it at 176 and pulled it off. The PDD is also known as "the speed rudiment". Singles are another good option.

Good luck bro!!

[NUTHA JASON]

yep jones, its rockschool. are you familiar with it? have a grade? the fill is in 667.

thanks groove

j

[brittc89]

I personally would go with the paradiddle. But that all depends on if you can get your doubles to come out clean on the toms.

[aydee]

I'd be going with singles as they are much more consistent, stronger, and faster for me;my doubles aren't too flash.

I'd jsut chose one (probably singles) and practic e until you get it fluent and precise.

I'm the opposite of Ozzy. doubles are my stronger suite, so I would stick the way your'e doing it., and keep working on the lead weaker hand transition.

If its just not happening, I would try and paradiddle the transition

[k3ng]

I say 145 should be relatively achieveable with singles. I usually try to flesh most of my speedy stuff with singles first before messing around with other stickings.

I haven't had a looky at the new syllabus book for rockschool yet.. how are the songs? The ones I did were pretty... weird.. I can't remember which year anymore.

[Raymond Bloom]

(IMHO) - The paradiddle-diddle. Without a doubt. Easy rudiment to play at break neck speeds. I just tried it at 176 and pulled it off. The PDD is also known as "the speed rudiment". Singles are another good option.

Good luck bro!!
yes, I vote for the paradiddle-diddle pattern also!

Off-topic, one of Jojo Mayer's paradiddle-diddle licks, left hand on snare, right on flor tom, accents in different places on the bass drum, now the next thing is to swing all the notes the right hand is doing, really, really great fill! The cool part of it is that you can swing in different ways, play different accents with the right hand and so on
example: http://drummerworld.com/Videos/jojomayergroove.html (0:38-0:40)

[NUTHA JASON]

k3ngI say 145 should be relatively achieveable with singles. I usually try to flesh most of my speedy stuff with singles first before messing around with other stickings.

I haven't had a looky at the new syllabus book for rockschool yet.. how are the songs? The ones I did were pretty... weird.. I can't remember which year anymore.


i've got the new 2006 syllabus and also out of interest i bought the old syllabus too. the new syllabus is much harder. if i could write the exam with the old syllabus i know it would only take me a couple of weeks preparation and i would ace it. it (old gr8) is roughly the level of difficulty of the new level grade 6.

j

[moncholo]

did you try playing double strokes, and using single strokes on the last eight notes?

[Paul Quin]

Jason, these are all good suggestions - and I am sure you will be able to pull this off no matter what sticking you choose to use. Because the feel is triplets, however, if I were faced with this exercise I would use a double paradiddle but start the first grouping leading with my left hand. The feel of a double paradiddle automatically lends itself to a triplet feel and by starting with the LH you won't run into any trouble as you cross over to your floor tom.

Just a thought

Paul

[SickRick]

yes, I vote for the paradiddle-diddle pattern also!

Off-topic, one of Jojo Mayer's paradiddle-diddle licks, left hand on snare, right on flor tom, accents in different places on the bass drum, now the next thing is to swing all the notes the right hand is doing, really, really great fill! The cool part of it is that you can swing in different ways, play different accents with the right hand and so on
example: http://drummerworld.com/Videos/jojomayergroove.html (0:38-0:40)

For that fill I really wouldn't recommend the Paradiddle-diddle. Yes, you can play that thing really really fast, but it will never sound as consistent as singles just because it does have a phrasing to it. And that is actually the cool thing about that rudiment - you can play a lot of interesting sounding stuff with it, if you find good orchestrations.

The lick you are talking about in this vid actually is something different. It is a lick I heard Vinnie play many many times before that and the sticking goes like this:

BllRLR-BllRLR-BllRLR-BllRLR and so on...

It is a variation of the Paradiddle-diddle where the BD substituetes the second note of the Right hand double stroke and where the sticking is turned around, so that you start on that exact note. Great lick, many players use it. Dave Weckl, Vinnie, JoJo...

[SickRick]

About that JoJo Lick once more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCNI8Yyy6mQ&mode=related&search=


Great explanation right here. Starts around 4:30 but the rest is also well worth watching. JoJo orchestrates differently though, instead of playing BD-sd-sd-TT-TT-FT like demonstrated in the vid, JoJo plays: BD-sd-sd-FT-SD-FT

The sticking is the same though. Really great lick. And quite easy actually...

[k3ng]

i've got the new 2006 syllabus and also out of interest i bought the old syllabus too. the new syllabus is much harder. if i could write the exam with the old syllabus i know it would only take me a couple of weeks preparation and i would ace it. it (old gr8) is roughly the level of difficulty of the new level grade 6.

j

THAT much of a difference? Hmm maybe I should go try it out. I'm out of touch playing rockschool stuff. They always come up with some really cool stuff to play.