Rudiments!! which are the most important?!

[h3r3tic]

I know that there's a thread about about stick control which covers a lot about rudiments but to be honest... do you have to learn all of the rudiments??

I'm not saying that you shouldn't!!

Bill Bachman says that (in his opinion) only 10 are the most important.
which rudiments do you think that SHOULD be learnt?

Please let me know from you as soon as possible ;)
Thanks guys!

[Michael G]

Rolls, singles doubles triples and all forms of paradiddles, and drags are the most important.

I am not saying flams or the other ones aren't important. When you put it in a musical perspective, they aren't used as much as the others I mentioned. Not to say you can't, you can very well apply them, but not as much.

But I still encourage to learn all of them, just the ones I listed I think should have the most time spent on them.

[nebula821]

I spend a lot of time with singles, doubles and triplets. Every other rudiment basically comes from these so they are my main focus. I do think it's beneficial to practice all of them though. I'm self-taught so I claim no expertise here.

[brennenlesser]

the rolls, the diddles, the flams, & the singles. that really about all I do.

[zambizzi]

I know that there's a thread about about stick control which covers a lot about rudiments but to be honest... do you have to learn all of the rudiments??

I'm not saying that you shouldn't!!

Bill Bachman says that (in his opinion) only 10 are the most important.
which rudiments do you think that SHOULD be learnt?

Please let me know from you as soon as possible ;)
Thanks guys!

Why *not* learn them all, however...it's not like there are too many to remember or learn. All of them will enhance your vocabulary in some way and lead to new ideas.

[Wavelength]

Singles, doubles, triples, buzzes, flams and drags in all combinations, stickings and using different accent patterns.

Déjà vu, anyone?

[jazzin']

Rolls, singles doubles triples and all forms of paradiddles, and drags are the most important.

I am not saying flams or the other ones aren't important. When you put it in a musical perspective, they aren't used as much as the others I mentioned. Not to say you can't, you can very well apply them, but not as much.

But I still encourage to learn all of them, just the ones I listed I think should have the most time spent on them.


I think you might find flams are easily as important as the other rudiments and are probably used as much, if not more, than some of the ones you listed.

Wavelength's list is good...+ paradiddles though. Of course you could say that singles and doubles together form a paradiddle and maybe thats why you left it out Wavelength? Either way...what he said is good.

[Shane G]

Theres only 3 rudiments anyway - singles, doubles & buzzes.

Everything else is a variation/combination of those strokes.

[Legacyrik]

Theres only 3 rudiments anyway - singles, doubles & buzzes.

Everything else is a variation/combination of those strokes.

Triple stroke roll???

[Shane G]

Triple stroke roll???
They are singles, imo.

[zambizzi]

I think the best thing I've ever done w/ rudiments is learning how to combine them into different phrases. When I'm warming up I'll just sit down at the pad and play...combining singles, doubles, flams, drags, diddles, etc. into small snare solos. IMO, this is far more productive than just sitting there, doing the individual rudiments by themselves.

[spleen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacyrik
Triple stroke roll???

They are singles, imo.

Could you please explain a bit? I think I understand your reasoning but I'm not sure.

Thanks!

spleen

[Legacyrik]

They are singles, imo.

yes, I've went down this thought process a number of times myself, that being that pretty much everything boils down to singles once you get up to speed.

As a test it would be interesting to see if I can do double or triple stroke rolls and the same equivilent top speed as singles.... If they are in fact the same as singles then a person wouldn't even need to pratice them. Somehow I don't think it works quite that way:(

[jonescrusher]

They are singles, imo.

No, by definition a single stroke roll, of whatever duration or note value must alternate between the limbs. Two strokes sounded consecutively with one limb is a double stroke, three notes a triple stroke.
It's limiting to think only in single stroke rolls. Double strokes particularly will open a new world of timbre and phrasing.

[Just Drums]

Why *not* learn them all, however...it's not like there are too many to remember or learn. All of them will enhance your vocabulary in some way and lead to new ideas.


Exactly. What he said. ^^^

It personally drives me bonkers when someone says that there is only 2 or 3 real rudiments.....

[dea]

Don't ignore your flams. In fact, incorporate them into other rudiments - all of your other rudiments ( flam-a-diddles, flam-ratamaque, flam-accents ). This will provide you with a more skill-dense practice session which means a more effective practice per given amount of time. Immediately incorporate accents, and please don't forget multi-level accents. This is how you'll acquire your special sauce that makes your playing sound like you.

[Raymond Bloom]

There are four rudiments from which consist all the others in different combinations:
singles, doubles, flams and buzz rolls!

[zambizzi]

I agree w/ all the pro-flammers...I personally think that the articulation to do flams quickly...and improvise using flams...makes them equally as important as any other rudiment. I love how quick flam accents sound while improv'ing on the kit or even just the pad.

My drum teacher challenged me to start combining flams very softly and quickly while practicing on the pad....alternating between flams, flam taps, flam-a-diddles, flam-a-cues, etc. I could see a speed and stick control gain after a week...now I do it every night.

[Wegadrummer]

My drum teacher said that if you can do singles, doubles and paradiddles you are good to go.. AND if you can make up some of your own that an extra plus too!

[Just Drums]

There are four rudiments from which consist all the others in different combinations:
singles, doubles, flams and buzz rolls!

I would have to say that those are the strokes - the components that make up dozens of rudiments but are not the rudiments themselves.

[dea]

My drum teacher said that if you can do singles, doubles and paradiddles you are good to go.. AND if you can make up some of your own that an extra plus too!

Ouch! This statement troubles me. Flams are essential and incredibly flexible. They are taken for granted too often. To leave them out is only short changing yourself. They are a key skill to help one improve control of your sticks.

Here's the thing. You can practice a paradiddle and acquire paradiddle skills within a given time window. Or you can incorporate flams into the paraddidle ( flamadiddle ) and learn paradiddles + flams within the same time window. It should be obvious the second practice method is going to provide you with more value for that given time window.

Everybody is different. Some prefer smaller steps, and that is okay. But don't limit yourself. Take on as complex a concept as you can handle even if your a beginner. You'll benefit in the long run.

[Bossa Nova]

My drum teacher said that if you can do singles, doubles and paradiddles you are good to go.. AND if you can make up some of your own that an extra plus too!

Just because he's a drum teacher doesn't make it correct. Alan Dawson was one of the great, great drum teachers and I know he wouldn't have the same opinion. It's true that most rudiments are made up of singles, doubles, flams, and buzzes, or whatever. But what if I told you that all drum grooves are made up of bass hits, snare hits, tom hits, cymbal hits and hi-hat openings and closing. Just because you can do all of that doesn't make you good to go. Maybe that's a stretch But, if you are a drummer that's familiar with all the ruff, drag, and flam rudiments, your fills/rolls will sound more interesting than if you just know the basic single stroke roll.

[a1DrummerT]

all..if ur gonna be a proficient drummer why not learn them all...unless ur just looking for some quick skills..hehe :)

[jazzin']

I agree w/ all the pro-flammers...I personally think that the articulation to do flams quickly...and improvise using flams...makes them equally as important as any other rudiment. I love how quick flam accents sound while improv'ing on the kit or even just the pad.

My drum teacher challenged me to start combining flams very softly and quickly while practicing on the pad....alternating between flams, flam taps, flam-a-diddles, flam-a-cues, etc. I could see a speed and stick control gain after a week...now I do it every night.


Hey Zambizzi, you should check out the latest issue of Percussive Notes. It has one of the best flam practice routines that I've come across. It is a short phrase which is interchangeable between all the different flam exercises. If you're looking for a great way to practice moving between the various flams in a musical sense then you should check this out. You'll love it.

I would also like to ask Shane how he sees a triple stroke roll as a singles exercise? With that thinking surely doubles must be considered a singles exercise. How does two strokes with one hand equal a rudiment in itself, yet three strokes per hand equal a variation of a single stroke roll? It simply makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Anyway, I would say H3r3tic that you should learn as many as you can. You only limit yourself by what you practice and where you stop with it. Get the rudimental ritual or a good teacher to teach it to you. Go through all the individual rudiments then put it together as the ritual. Can't get much better than that.

[h3r3tic]

I just came out with a list of what I think are my basic 10 rudiments for the drumset :D

1. Single Stroke Roll
2. Double Stroke Roll

.Paradiddles:
3. Single Paradiddle
4. Double Paradiddle
5. Paradiddle diddle

6. Triple Stroke Roll
7. Flam Taps
8. Swiss Army Triplet
9. Flam Accent
10. Buzz Roll

I think that after mastering these, then we can later on can combine each of these 10 rudiments with each other.

Again: This is just my opinion... I'm not saying that you SHOULDN'T learn all of the 40 rudiments!!

Thanks for your posts!;)

[Dane]

When I'm playing snare drum stuff i like to learn the rudiments. But when i sit down on a kit and play with my friends to me there are no set rudiments or sticking patterns, just my sticks moving the way i want them and making the sound I want them to make. I think everything, and i mean everything, builds in complexity as its developed but the beauty is when it returns to a point of simplicity and it just...happens.

My opinion.

~Dane~

[Raymond Bloom]

I would have to say that those are the strokes - the components that make up dozens of rudiments but are not the rudiments themselves.
Well, a single stroke roll is a rudiment, isn't it? The same about double stroke roll, flams and buzz rolls!

Buzz roll isn't that essential, because there is only one rudiment with it, and that's the buzz roll itself hah

[Wavelength]

Of course you could say that singles and doubles together form a paradiddle and maybe thats why you left it out Wavelength?

Exactly. Many accent and sticking patterns could be reduced into different paradiddle combinations and permutations, but thinking in paradiddles isn't usually all that useful. If you spend time working on some right (or left) hand lead material, you'll gain naturally the ability to use the most efficient stickings for every situation -- different combinations of singles and doubles. You will be playing paradiddles without even thinking of them. One can reach the same goal with the help of paradiddles, of course.

I like to use Stick Control to work on applying accents, flams, drags, diddles and buzzes to different stickings. I choose a sticking and go through all the rhythmic variations (yes, all 256 of them!) using said "special" strokes. After I'm done, I go the the next sticking. This exercise is a real brain twister, and you'll need to go very slowly in order to get the full benefits of it.

[Shane G]

Could you please explain a bit? I think I understand your reasoning but I'm not sure.

Thanks!

spleen
I think that once youve played more than 2 notes per hand, all youre doing is repeating singles, really.

Whether that be 3 or 300 strokes, its really just singles w/one hand.



Oh and to address the other posts so far:

- Flams are singles played as close together as possible.

- Paradiddles are simply a combination of singles & doubles.

- Buzz rolls really should be called multiple bounce rolls, since thats what you should be doing - controlling the multiple bounce.

[Wavelength]

- Buzz rolls really should be called multiple bounce rolls, since thats what you should be doing - controlling the multiple bounce.

Then again, triple strokes are also controlled bounces, especially in fast tempos. Or maybe buzz rolls are just very quick single strokes...

[slingerland755]

Theres only 3 rudiments anyway - singles, doubles & buzzes.

Everything else is a variation/combination of those strokes.

I agree with all the flam supporters. Don't forget them. I would say I used the flam accent more than any other rudiment in regard to playing rock fills. It's also a great rudiment to break up between the ride and the snare and them play around with the bass drum patterns.

[King Of Drums]

Learn them all... It's not that hard to remember seeing as how a lot are very similar to one another. They can only help your playing.