my vintage luddies

[drummerern]

not shure how old they are but i know their older than me...so that makes them vintage i guess, um, just finished veneering them because the previous owner scrued them up when trying to "re-finish" them .....idiot.....anyways here they are

o...and i got one of the new gibraltar pedals, not quite sure if i like it, i feels better than an iron cobra, but the beater is about the size of my palm, so if sounds like a giant marshmallow when it hits, so i'm gonna switch out the beater then see how i like it...

o...specs,

drums are 22x14, 5.5x14, 12x9, and 16x16
cymbals are 15" vintage zildjian hats
2o" vintage zildjian ride
2o" zildjian ping ride,
and the one pictured is a 18" sabian aaxplosion crash, but i don't think it will stay on this set, i'm still playing around with different combinations....any suggestions?

[crazyhorse]

Very nicely done! The acro looks good next to that kit =)

[Jusstickinaround]

What series is that? The kick only has eight lugs. Is that grey paint on the interior? I don't recognize the legs either. I don't recall Ludwig using metal hoops on the kick, however, I do love the finish.

[razorx]

thats a huge beater, nice job!

[Ironcobra]

that beater just made my day. it actually made me laugh. not that theres anything wrong with it, it's just......HUGE. awwesome. anyways, you kit is really nice and would be even better with a white coated bass reso.

[joeybeats]

Your set looks great. Joey

[drummerern]

lol...i hate the beater, i just switched it out with an iron cobra beater, much better,

i think the drums are somewhere in the mid eighties, but again, i'm not completely shure, i know thaeir not all that close to being top of the line, but the sound okay to me

[fusssion]

Those are Ludwig Standards I think,,,, ........and they've been re-finished (nicely) but re-finished ....

I can't upload the picture it's too big and I don't have time, but I'm pretty sure that's what they are
.....

and by the way...that's an 8x12 .......

[drummerern]

yup, your right, mu mistake, looka like i don't don't know how to count ater all...thanx

[drumbandit]

Lovely kit, the un-original finish looks great and that beater is huge!!!

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I really like that veneer.

[Jusstickinaround]

Those are Ludwig Standards I think,,,, ........and they've been re-finished (nicely) but re-finished ....

I can't upload the picture it's too big and I don't have time, but I'm pretty sure that's what they are
.....

and by the way...that's an 8x12 .......

Those aren't Ludwig Standard lugs, they look like classic lugs, I'm baffled.

[drummerern]

if it helps any heres what the badges look like....

[the skin man]

When you want to tighten the tom mounts do you have to use a wrench or can you just use your hand? Some old Ludwigs require a wrench, but I'm not sure if that's because they've been jury rigged that way or if it was the original design.

[latzanimal]

Those aren't Ludwig Standard lugs, they look like classic lugs, I'm baffled.

They are probably not Standards. They look to be ( by the bass drum alone) early 80's Rockers. Perhaps even the re-issued Standards/precursor Rockers from the very early 80's. LVDC back me up here. The bass does not appear to have re-rings, but does have the granitone finish. The spurs were closer to the Tamas of the time and definitely not original Standard hardware. The metal hoops (that can easily be replaced) were what came with the rocker series and perhaps the reissued Standard. The Standard/Rocker Bullet lugs have the same hole spacing as a large Classic Ludwig lug and can easily be swopped out. However, I think (LVDC correct me as our discussion eludes me) the re-issued Standards had Classic lugs. It was something that could certainly be custom ordered as I have a Standard set with Classic lugs that are original.

BTW, that was a picture of a badge you posted not a lug.

Either way, nice set. You did a good job veneering them.

Enjoy!

[Cymbalrider]

How's the Gibralter pedal work for you? I've seen them online before, but never seen one in person.

[fusssion]

Those aren't Ludwig Standard lugs, they look like classic lugs, I'm baffled.

Ludwig Standard Lugs in 1980 had classic lugs........

[drummerern]

after much tweaking and practice and testing, i've decided to return the pedal. it's just too awkward in the way it feels, can't get it right, and i'm gonna get an iron cobra or a pearl eliminator instead, cant decide....

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Ludwig Standard Lugs in 1980 had classic lugs........

That is correct, but as far as I know the first Catalog the "reintroduced" Standards appeared in was the 1982 offering.
They also had Blue & Olive Badges, as shown below in the '82 Catalog...................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/264317549.jpg

As far as drummeren's Outfit is concerned, I think it's one of those that we could debate about until we ran out of server space and still not know what it is. Anytime a Kit has been "messed with" who knows what the person did when putting it all back together. Did they swap out the Spurs? Lugs?? Even the Badges??? Only they would know for sure, with the only thing we can be sure of, "It is what it is."
With that said, here are some possibilites with a "swap out" issue still in the mix so we can't go off on, those Spurs / Lugs aren't right etc. I have worked enough Kits & Drums to know anything is possible so, at this point, nothing would surprise me. I would venture to say though, that drummeren's Outfit originally came with a 9 x 13 Tom to go with the 8 x 12..............

I'm focusing on the fact that they have Black & White Badges as well as 8 Lug Bass Drums since covering all bases would be, well, a much larger undertaking with the end result still in doubt..................

The Rocker II from the 1984-85 Flyer.
Pretty close but it had the early Standard (1968-72) type Lugs, which were also used on the 1984 S/L Mark Time Outfit, which also had Black & White Badges.......................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195622748.jpg

The description below is from 1986-87

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195622806.jpg

Back to 1984-85 (below)

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195661500.jpg

The following images are from the 1984 Catalog and deal with the S/L Series, which were "tweaked" reintroduced Standard's that were only around for a short time before the Rockers / Rockers II filled this entry level slot.........................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/275141983.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/275143385.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/275143447.jpg

Below is the Mark Time, also from 1984, which, while part of the S/L Line, had only 3-Ply Shells as well as the old Standard, early Rocker style Lugs................................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/275150452.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13428799/275150231.jpg



Time to shut this puppy down.
A tough storm is upon us here with the Severe Weather Sirens going off so I better go and see what the heck is going on out there.............

LVDC

[LiveGoat]

Hey, LudwigVon, what do they mean by "3-ply die-mold shells"?

------------LG

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Hey, LudwigVon, what do they mean by "3-ply die-mold shells"?

LG, that was just the term Ludwig used to describe the Shell manufacturing process they adopted in 1976, I''ve also heard it reffered to as the "Uni-Mold" method. These "Die Mold" Shells didn't have re-rings and were, for the most part, 6-Ply, but could be 4, or, as you seen above, even 3-Ply.

As shown in the 1981 Catalog.....................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/15482309/275219521.jpg

I went and hunted up a couple of shots from the mid-80's showing a little of Ludwig's Die Mold Process...............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/15482309/275226827.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/15482309/275226992.jpg


LVDC

[LiveGoat]

Hmm... I must've had the real cheapie schmeapie version of the rockers, then. Mine were exactly like the ones in the rocker II picture above but were wrapped in black. The shells seemed to be made of some kind of pressed, particle board type material. I remember cranking the snare really tight one day and watching the bearing edges crumble like a sand castle! I believe they were from around '84-'85.

--LG




LG, that was just the term Ludwig used to describe the Shell manufacturing process they adopted in 1976, I''ve also heard it reffered to as the "Uni-Mold" method. These "Die Mold" Shells didn't have re-rings and were, for the most part, 6-Ply, but could be 4, or, as you seen above, even 3-Ply.

As shown in the 1981 Catalog.....................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/15482309/275219521.jpg

LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Here is some information that I had intended to include in my initial post but was "shut down" by Mother Nature.................

My guess, and that's all it would be, is that drummeren's Outfit started life as a Rocker's II, not to be confused with the Rocker's, which were the next step up and differed from the Rocker II Series. I'm thinking that when they were "messed with" that someone swapped out the Lugs, using Ludwig Classic's. I'm basing this, for the most part, on the Spurs, Hoops & Granitone Interior.

From 1988......................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275227071.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275227222.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275227293.jpg

Note Metal Bass Drum Hoops.................

LVDC

[latzanimal]

Once again, LVDC, you set us all straight....

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Once again, LVDC, you set us all straight....

Thanks latz! Coming from you I'll take that as a supreme compliment.
Knowing you, I would bet my last dollar that you had a good handle on what drummeren's Outfit could be as soon as you saw it....................

Since I covered most of the other Black & White Badge, 8 Lug Bass Drum "stuff" I might just as well "flesh this out" with some straight up Rocker information.

From the 1984-85 Rocker Series Flyer, which is when they first arrived on the scene...

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195658986.jpg

Note first Rocker (not Rocker II) were shown with the regular Ludwig 1/2" Spurs & Tom Post...................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195659057.jpg

In order to cover a little more territory this description dates to 1986-87............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195646550.jpg

Like I did with the Rocker II let's jump back to the 1984-85 overview below.................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/195661462.jpg

The next three images date to 1988.
Note the change in Spurs & Tom Post on the Rocker Line, once again, not to be confused with the Rocker II..............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275232397.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275232428.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275232446.jpg

Let's finish up here with the Rocker / Rocker II options, which were subject to change, from 1988...................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275238240.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275238418.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275238534.jpg

LVDC

[latzanimal]

Thanks latz! Coming from you I'll take that as a supreme compliment.

Right back at you!! Thanks.

Knowing you, I would bet my last dollar that you had a good handle on what drummeren's Outfit could be as soon as you saw it....................



Careful, somebody may start to believe me..... LOL

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

I just experienced an "Old Timer" moment...................

I was going through some old notes written down a little over a year ago when I read, "Early Rocker Series pictured with Classic Lugs." After saying WTF I went and checked, sure enough, here is a cropped close-up from the 1984-85 Flyer shown in an earlier post. The 1986-87 Flyer used a "carry-over" image so they are both the same shot...........................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275257619.jpg

latz, if you happen to see this, the above is a good shot of those "hoodie" Rims I mentioned before..................

Below is a cropped section of the 1984-85 Rocker II Toms showing that these were pictured with the older Standard type, "Rocker Lugs."

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13197092/275257637.jpg

LVDC

[fusssion]

Hmmmm...Rocker II spurs....but it has Rocker or S/L toms, lugs, etc....

TYPICAL....Ludwig history-headache! :)

[latzanimal]

latz, if you happen to see this, the above is a good shot of those "hoodie" Rims I mentioned before..................

LVDC

Yep, got a few, but most are the flange type. Thank you.

Hmmmm...Rocker II spurs....but it has Rocker or S/L toms, lugs, etc....

TYPICAL....Ludwig history-headache! :)

LVDC, I think fusssion has hit the nail on the head. I knew a guy who used to work at Ludwig in Chicago. He has passed, but was a wealth of info and had interesting perspectives on some of the stuff that went on there. We weren't close, but I miss his stories.... Sorry, just typin' out loud.