Making sub mic's for kicks

[RUSTE]

Hi guys. I remember reading somewhere about being able to make your own sub bassdrum mics (like the yamaha sub kick things) just from getting a speaker cone & wiring a mic cable onto it. Any idea's how to go about this? Ive 2 old wafendale speakers i could use. I thinking there has to be a device to be made to hold it up etc..? Im really up for doing this & using it in conjuntion with my other mic. Cheers

Russ

[IDDrummer]

Wire it in reverse, rig up a frame of some type that positions it in front of the reso head, run it into a pre-amp and you should be set.You might even be able to use the existing speaker cab as a stand.

[RUSTE]

Wire it in reverse, rig up a frame of some type that positions it in front of the reso head, run it into a pre-amp and you should be set.You might even be able to use the existing speaker cab as a stand.

Thanks thats a good idea using the cab as a stand. Im thinking the better the speaker the better the sound..? I know these old speakers are very bassy. Im going to rip apart a xlr lead to do this i think as i might take it to the studio & cant really be a jack lead. Will this work? Im not really a great handy man but soldering 2 leads isn't to hard.

Has anybody out there done this themselfs?

[RUSTE]

Just for info the speaker is a wharfedale delta 30 8 ohms 75w

[RUSTE]

Well ive got it working alright. Thing is ive stripped the female end of an xlr lead & pluged them into where the speaker wire normaly goes (black in red..red in black) on the back but its really loud & has to be only turned up a very small amount. This bit has a small chipboard on. I thinking maybe a should wire straight to the speaker & maybe it would not be that sensitive? anybody? Thanks

[IDDrummer]

The homemade one that I have seen (in my friends' studio) ran directly to the speaker. If you are running directly into the cab's inputs you are probably receiving signal from all the speakers (provided it's a two or three-way speaker cabinet).

I don't know if attaching the leads directly to the speaker will have much effect on signal level, though. You may still get a hot signal... No way to know except to try it.

[bighaibigdrums]

Mount the speaker inside an old drumshell. Wire directly to the speaker.

[RUSTE]

Mount the speaker inside an old drumshell. Wire directly to the speaker.

How much differnce to the sound would being in a drum shell make? ive just got a snare stand holding the speaker. Works ok.. & if you did that you gotta make somethinf to hold it still etc... Im just not that handy

[oldsmagnet]

Funny I stumble onto this thread tonight -- couple days ago (after my mixer showed up) I did some late-night experimenting, with the direct theory that speakers can be used as mics.... and set out to use what I had available, just to test a theory
http://oldsmagnet.oldsgmail.com/P7259949.JPG
http://oldsmagnet.oldsgmail.com/P7259951.JPG
Still need to tweak a lot of the settings between the mixer and computer, but its functional - and has the potential to be decent. The large speakers grab the bass pretty good :-) (yeah, I know, redneck, ghetto, whatever you wanna call it, I don't care -- I'll eventually downgrade to 4's and 6's for mics, after I get all the drums to match LOL

[bighaibigdrums]

How much differnce to the sound would being in a drum shell make? ive just got a snare stand holding the speaker. Works ok.. & if you did that you gotta make somethinf to hold it still etc... Im just not that handy

You get better isolation so there is less bleeding. As for holding the speaker, its easy. take your heads and all your lugs off, put a screw in 4 lug holes opposit of each other. Loop an elastic around the speakers mount hole, run it through the lug hole and hook it on the screw.

[RUSTE]

You get better isolation so there is less bleeding. As for holding the speaker, its easy. take your heads and all your lugs off, put a screw in 4 lug holes opposit of each other. Loop an elastic around the speakers mount hole, run it through the lug hole and hook it on the screw.

But im going to gate the sound anyway so this should not matter much should it?
Anyhow here is it at the moment. Ive no wires on it yet but ive manage to hold it up with a snare stand ok & will be able to get very close the the bassdrum help

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g138/RUSTE02/DSC00347.jpg

[flicky]

Can I ask what's the purpose? I don't get it... What are you trying to achieve?

[PureRockFury]

Can I ask what's the purpose? I don't get it... What are you trying to achieve?

He's isn't trying to achieve, it does achieve a much more low end presence. A speaker is essentially a large diaphragm mic. The larger the diaphragm the lower the frequency response. A sub-kick can pick up the lower frequencies a regular bass drum mic can't. I have used one for about 1.5 years and won't record or play shows without it.

When paired up with a regular bass mic such as a Shure Beta52 you get the ultimate bass sound. You get the mids and hi-end attack from the regular bass mic, while getting the rich, round, warm lows from the sub-kick. Mixed together it's a whole new area to explore. They can even be used on floor toms, concert bass drums, timpani, or any low pitched instrument for that matter.

http://www.yamaha.com/drums/drumproductdetail.html?CNTID=544671&CTID=5040593

Click on "Demo" to watch a great demo video of how it works with the developer Russ Miller

[flicky]

Thanks PureRockFury,
So..... What frequencies are you trying to reproduce? Like below say 30hz? With a good EQ you can get that with a Beta 52. Me being a drummer/monitor tech, I get the chance to work with lots of drummers and sound men. I guess what i'm saying is that for a live situation with an average drum fill, you'd have to have alot of power to be able to reproduce anything below 30hz to the volume you would need to hear it over everything else including a Bass amp. 30hz and below is hard to hear. You can feel it though.
Cool idea though.. I can see where it would be good for recording. If you have near feilds that go down past 30hz. Or a sub.
Any decent sound man should be able to get that umph you're speaking of.

[flicky]

I just read the Yamaha specs for it. Range is from 50hz to 2000hz. A Beta 52 can pick up that low.

[PureRockFury]

I just read the Yamaha specs for it. Range is from 50hz to 2000hz. A Beta 52 can pick up that low.

Ah yes, but it can't reproduce those frequencies with the power a larger diaphragm can. Most bass mics can pick up a wide range of frequencies but can't reproduce them to their full potential due to the small diaphragm size.

I know a good sound man can get great results with just a Shure Beta 52, but the subkick allows 30Hz and below become more prominent.

The Yamaha might not be the greatest video to watch a demonstration. They could be rolling off the low end on the Beta 52 to make the subkick seem that much better. However, I have noticed way more low end in my sound since using one (non-Yamaha).

I would never recommend using a subkick on its own. It does not allow the attack of the drum to come through at all. Mixing it with a Beta 52 is quite nice, providing you don't run into phase problems, but since they are in such close proximity that rarely happens.

[flicky]

Thanks PureRockFury,
Sounds like a great product. I'd like to get one and try it. Do you have any probs with a bass guitar bleeding into to it while playing live?

[iamtak]

If i recall correctly, Yamaha NS-10 speakers are commonly used for this purpose

[PureRockFury]

Thanks PureRockFury,
Sounds like a great product. I'd like to get one and try it. Do you have any probs with a bass guitar bleeding into to it while playing live?

I've never really had that problem. This could only be due to the fact that I hard limit and gate because of how open my 24x17.5 kick is.

[RUSTE]

Yes i just want to experament with sounds really. There is no way i would use it live but im thinking studio to maybe put a dynamic right up to the beater inside the bassdrum for the beater click & use the sub mic to get a really nice low end. I read rythem magazine here in england & they had a feature about recording drums & recorded examples on it. They used a made up sub mic like the one im making on a snare stand & done a & b's between them & then together & i must say it sounded great. Ive been in the studio recently & used just 1 sennheiser bassdrum mic just pocking in the hole on the bassdrum & it sounded great & had a tight low end but im just up for experamenting particularly when it doeant cost any money....