Are my hoops twisted???

[Peter W.]

I have just bought a DrumDial, and I'm kind off puzzled:
The tension is showing 72 all around my 10" tom. Exept for one lug, which is showing 75... with no tension on the lug... AT ALL!!! The tensionbolt is swinging from side to side, with no tension at all. So how is it posible for that area to show a higher tension?

In fact all my toms have that problem to some degree, on both sides.
Are the hoops twisted?


It is justis showing I have

[drumtechdad]

The DD gives the impression of accuracy--it's a guage after all--but there are a number of things that can throw it off.

One is a bent rim, as you surmised. Mark the problematic area and lay the rim on a truly flat surface. (polished marble is often better than glass, which isn't always flat.) Have a look. Often a rim can be bent (gently!) back into shape. (I wouldn't try this with die-cast rims.) The rim might also be out of round. Off the drum, measure across the rim at several points--it should measure the same at each point. Again, you can often bend the rim back into round.

It could also be a shell out-of-round. Do the same measurements across the shell. I had a similar problem as yours--one tension rod is completely loose yet reads high. It was caused by an out-of-round shell. In most cases the too-loose lug will sound low compared to the others. Simply bring it up to pitch and ignore what the DD tells you.

The DD can also be fooled by a dimple in the head. It can be fooled by a not-quite-perfect head, even a new one. It can be fooled by coating wear. It can be fooled by an area of the head being stretched a little compared to the rest.

Another possibility is that the tension rod directly opposite the problematic one is actually too tight despite what the DD tells you (for any of the above reasons above, or others). Are you checking your results by ear? Tap the head all around and see if the opposite lug is actually too high. If it is, lower it a bit too much and then see if the problematic lug can be tightened to compensate.

After tuning even a perfect drum/head combo with a DD you'll find pitch discrepancies lug-to-lug. When I tried one I found that even though the dial showed perfect matches lug-to-lug I could still hear differences in pitch.

For that reason, I believe it's best to use the DD to get you in the ballpark and then fine tune by ear anyway. Then when you go back and measure you'll find different readings lug-to-lug even though it sounds perfect. Go by your ear, not the DD. I've never heard a drum tuned with the DD that didn't need fine tuning.

To me the best reason to use the DD is when installing all new heads on your drums. Once you've achieved a good tuning write down the DD readings--again, this will be an average or ballpark number. Then when you install new heads use that number to get close to where you had it before without having to start from scratch every time. Then, of course, fine tune by ear.

Now that I tune to pitches I don't use the DD even for that.

[fourstringdrums]

When you tension the drum are you tuning two drum keys opposite each other at the same time so the head isn't pulling to one side at once? I read in another drumdial thread that this will cause the last lug to have a higher reading even at lower tension.

But I agree with what drumtechdad said. Use it to get you in the ballpark. It's best to tune by ear and then use it to fine tune.

[Peter W.]

Thanks for the detailed anwsers.
The heads are completely new. No dents at all.
I put the drum down on the flatests surface in the house, and it's like the drum is rolling a little bit from side to side. So I guess the hoops are a little twisted.

But it's a pretty new set of drums. It's a set of Yamaha Maple Absolute, and I've only had them for about 2½ years.

How can the hoops become twisted allready?
Or, are there often errors from the factory?
Or could it be down to weather conditions (my drums stay in my car all year)??

[fijjibo]

Thanks for the detailed anwsers.
The heads are completely new. No dents at all.
I put the drum down on the flatests surface in the house, and it's like the drum is rolling a little bit from side to side. So I guess the hoops are a little twisted.

But it's a pretty new set of drums. It's a set of Yamaha Maple Absolute, and I've only had them for about 2½ years.

How can the hoops become twisted allready?
Or, are there often errors from the factory?
Or could it be down to weather conditions (my drums stay in my car all year)??

It could be any one of those factors.

The best way to check your hoops is to watch this vid from my mate Bob Gatzen.
He gives advice on checking your shells and hoops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcvQDh7U6Lo

This man is a goldmine....

[ermghoti]

DTD covered almost everything, but he is assuming there was no operator error. If you try too tune up too fast, you will "suspend" the head between two lugs, the rigidity of the hoop will tension the head to some extent, even if the lug is removed entirely. Try loosening everything, and tuning back up 1/4 turn at a time or less, in an opposed pattern.

[Peter W.]

Thanks for all the great anwsers. I'm still puzzled though!!

1. The heads are brand new. No dents. No nothing.
2. The drum it self, is allmost completely even.
3. I took of the hoop, and adjusted it - which is easely done.

But still: there is allways one or two lugs left, which measures 3 to 4 units above the rest - without being tightend att all!!

How come??? I'm cueless....

I can tune the drums though, so they sound pretty good. Is it due to the use of clear ambassadors - which I would say, is the head most sensitive to in-acuracies in shells and hardware??

[ermghoti]

Wait, the tension is higher on the odd lug? That's wierd.

[Peter W.]

Wait, the tension is higher on the odd lug? That's wierd.

Exactly! When the lug is completely loose, then DrumDial measures about 3-4 units higher in that area...
That would make perfectly sense if the hoop was twisted, but I took it of and bended it back in to shape, just like Bob Gatzen on the video (It's easy - thanks for the advice).

Wait a second! I just put the drum (with the heads and everything) on a flat table: It's twisted again... and both sides! It makes no sense...

[ermghoti]

If the lugs were mis-located, they could pull the rim out of shape. I would hate to see that the case, as it's irreparable. Try measuring the distance between each lug. If it's on both sides, I would suspect the shell first, though.

[fourstringdrums]

Your drums are top notch, so you shouldn't be having problems of misaligned lugs, or even twisted hoops. But you said you leave them in the car all the time (WHY??) so you may have damaged the shell possibly as well.

Does the drum tune up without the drum dial? If it tunes fine without it, forget the drum dial. Did you try the other suggestions of tuning by ear first and then using it to fine tune? The problem could be the drum dial and not the hoops, and if you're trying to bend the hoops to fix a problem that isn't there, you could do more harm than good.

[crazyhorse]

Toss the drum dial in the trash... and use your ears. =)

My first mag prototype snare was hardly perfectly round... however it worked just fine and sounds absolutely sweet.

The only time rims, slightly out of round shells, etc become a problem is when a drum is difficult to tune or slips out of tune easily. I've never used a drum dial as I've never seen a point in knowing the supposed tension. You should be able to hear when the drum is in tune with some practice