DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE

[Speedy]

I recently got a double bass kit by pearl. I was wondering if there was any good techniques to build my double bass speed.

[kevinmillerdrummer]

well you might just try playing only with your feet to gain coordinaton, then add in some tom work like triplets. it just boils down to practice. mainly trying to bring them into a piece of drumming.

check out the double bass drumming i have on video at www.kevinmillerdrumer.com

i don't get into until about 1/2 way thru but it is distinctive

for me it is all a matter of feel. i dont really paly double bass drum but think of trying it again.

good luck and be clean and tasty

[mediocrefunkybeat]

Play all the rudiments with your feet as you would play with your hands. It works!

[Elemental Nausea]

look on the dave lombardo homepage, there are some exercises which helped me build my speed...first you have to set up your two basses in a way that feels comfortable to you(as close together as possible usually), for practicing just look on the lombardo page, it`s really got me started as well. now after two years i am able to play most slayer and slipknot stuff for example with double bass, but there is also faster stuff in the extreme metal genre

[Speedy]

Hey MFB isnt that something danny carey does to?

[magand]

Look up Bobby Jarzombek in drummerworld. youll find a video with some sick double bass-skills. you cant learn anything though, its just some cool drumming. (would like some more videos of Jarzombek)

[beatz]

A book that one of my drummer friends recommended for me was, "The Encyclopedia for Double Bass Drumming" really a good book. Give it time, it isn't going to happen over night or even a few nights. In fact, the virtuoso Mike Mangini, explained that it took him 11 years of woodshed and practice to get to the point where he is.

[mediocrefunkybeat]

Hey MFB isnt that something danny carey does to?

Quite probably. Most double bassing drummers, especially the technical ones (RE: Carey, Bozzio, Donati and indeed Portnoy) almost certainly practice this way. I don't think Lars did... I'm not a big fan of Lars anymore tbh. I've got paradiddles going fairly smoothly, but otherwise my double bassing is pretty mediocre.

[Colin]

I've been playing double bass for about a year and a half. I'm at the point where I can play any Slayer song comfortably. So I'd say I'm pretty fast with my feet. Just like everyone else says, it all comes down to practice. There are times where you'll get frustrated, but you must keep going. Do the rudiments, play comfortably at a certain tempo and increase it by 10 everytime in about two minute intervals. You can increase the time of the intervals as you wish. But just keep practicing! Good luck man.

[Big_Drummer]

a simple opinion, watch creative control of thomas lang he is the best playing double bass, better than lombardo, puff, and you will notice what you have to do

[C_H]

well im strange i lean to one side when doing a blast beat i find i get more speed that way, well when i do i can do blasts of up to 280 bpm well.... according to my reader thats the speed

[Pedro]

First work on controle and independence with your double bass, and speed will follow.

Do some paradiddles with your bassdrums. Than do one paradiddle on the bassed and combine it with an other paradiddle with your hands on for e.g. the hi-hat.

You also can play a paradiddle with your feet and just doing left-right-left-right-... with your hand. Just be creative.

I must admit it's insane doing this and you'll need a lot of courage to do it. But if you'll be able to practice like this, you'll be playing awesome in a short time.

[dan]

my teachers just given me some dbl bass excersizes, maybe ull find them helpfull:

theyre all played with 8th notes on the hi-hat and 2 and 4 on snare (and a metronome), and I do them starting on the right and starting on the left:

1) 1-1
2) 2-2
3) RLLRRLLRR....
4) 3-3
5) 4-4
6) paradiddles
7) paraparadiddles
8) paraparaparadiddles

ok so basically what other people have already said, but oh well :P

[thinkintriplets]

I say play triplets with the metronome. Overall, it helps your single stroke (probably what you'll be using most of the time) as well as your tightness. I find in the begining, I started playing then fell into flams by the end.... man was that EVER frustrating.

Also, start SLOW. Dont try going as fast as you can because that will just lead to bad technique!!!

[toteman2]

Go to Virgil Donati.com, and join his master classes...You will learn all the double and single bass drum techniques and excercises you will ever need...Virgil is a master with his feet, and even better with his hands...Sometimes i can't beleive what i am watching...

[pearl-sabian]

i leab back a little bit, and put my feet on the middle of the footboard, then relax my legs, then go at it.

[LDGuy]

Here are a few i do.

We all do paradiddles, but it's cool to experiment, and see what you can come up with. A drum teacher i once had taught me a rudement called the compound paradiddle, which was a single, a double, and a triple all joined together, to form...

RLRRLRLLRLRLRRLRLRLLRLRLRLRRLRLRLRLL

Complicated, eh? Well, after mastering this between my hands, i thought i might as well do it with my feet.

So, i play a groove. You'll notice there are 36 strokes, which cancels out as 9 quarter notes if they are 16th notes. So, playing in 9/4 with that as your bass drum pattern works out like this...


¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a5e+a6e+a7e+a8e+a9e+a
Hihat o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o---o--- ¦
Snare ----O-------O-------O-------O---O--- .¦
RBass o-oo-o--o-o-oo-o-o--o-o-o-oo-o-o-o-- .¦
LBass -o--o-oo-o-o--o-o-oo-o-o-o--o-o-o-oo ¦

There are multiple ways of voicing this. For instance, you can do this...

¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a5e+a6e+a7e+a8e+a9e+a
Hihat o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o--o-- ¦
Snare ------O-----------O--------O-----O-- .¦
RBass o-oo-o--o-o-oo-o-o--o-o-o-oo-o-o-o-- .¦
LBass -o--o-oo-o-o--o-o-oo-o-o-o--o-o-o-oo ¦

or...

¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a5e+a6e+a7e+a8e+a9e+a
123451234512345123451234512345123456
Hihat o----o----o----o----o----o----o--o-- ¦
Snare -----O---------O---------O-------O-- .¦
RBass o-oo-o--o-o-oo-o-o--o-o-o-oo-o-o-o-- .¦
LBass -o--o-oo-o-o--o-o-oo-o-o-o--o-o-o-oo ¦

or even...

¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦ ¦
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a5e+a6e+a7e+a8e+a9e+a
LH o-o-o-oo-o-o-o--o-o-oo-o-o--o-oo-o-- ¦
RH -o-o-o--o-o-o-oo-o-o--o-o-oo-o--o-oo .¦
RBass o-oo-o--o-o-oo-o-o--o-o-o-oo-o-o-o-- .¦
LBass -o--o-oo-o-o--o-o-oo-o-o-o--o-o-o-oo ¦

That last one is insane.

HTH!

[Freddie Freeloader]

i downloaded some videos off limewire of a guy called derek roddy.... they seem to be shot with a handycam, but he's got this cool practice routine that i've been trying out (well, not exactly the same thing, more like my own tailor-made routine, but inspired by his).....
www.derekroddy.com (http://www.derekroddy.com)

he plays drums for a band called hate eternal, and he's got some FAST feet.... i mean, REAL FAST! hahaha. he's kinda cool, so even if you're not into that music, his ideas are great to build speed and endurance. endurance being the key word here.....
i bought an iron cobra db a month ago and only started practicing seriously last week....
in addition to half an hour of practicing my routine (that's similar to roddy's), i also do some rudiments with my feet and also write out some lengthy grooves with adequate db parts and just play them out.... its kinda helped.....
whatever you do, use a metronome to track your progress......

[Stu_Strib]

I started using Stick Control two days ago. I've only done the first 72 single stroke patterns. But, in 2 hours, I've gone from about 120 to 150 comfortably. I can do most of the faster but a lot of the patterns have 3 or 4 of the same foot in a row, and my left foot isn't comfortable up to speed yet doing 4 in a row.

Maybe someone can republish this classic book and rename it "Pedal Control". Or maybe some of these speed freaks can write a book and call it "Pedal Control"!

stu

[medeskisoul]

see this thread: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413

[Dyaxe]

look on the dave lombardo homepage, there are some exercises which helped me build my speed...first you have to set up your two basses in a way that feels comfortable to you(as close together as possible usually), for practicing just look on the lombardo page, it`s really got me started as well. now after two years i am able to play most slayer and slipknot stuff for example with double bass, but there is also faster stuff in the extreme metal genre

his website hasn't been working for awhile on my computer? has it been working for you? it seems like the flash file isn't loading.

[juanlopez174]

I just added a double bass drum pedal to my kit and im looking for exercises to do to become better at double bass

[darkcherryfade]

I just added a double bass drum pedal to my kit and im looking for exercises to do to become better at double bass

Get some quarter notes going with your leading hand, wherever you like, and play the snare on the 3, so it's your basic rock beat without the bass drum. Then incorporate 16th notes with your feet. Practice them as single strokes (RLRL), double strokes (RRLL), and paradiddles (RLRRLRLL). Practice starting with both the left and the right. Also, try to incorporate 4-strokes (RRRRLLLL) and even 8's.These will help you move on to 32nd notes. If you can play 16th notes with each limb individually, you can hit the 32nd notes.

[juanlopez174]

wow those exersices look real helpful im gona try em out

thanks alot

[jmr2master]

Hi my name is Jonathan and I have been playing the drum set for maybe 4 years, I am doing alot better as of late so when I make improvements on the drum set my parents may get me new parts, and recently I got a double bass pedal, and I was wounder if there is any way to get my double bass playing up to speed in less then a month because I have to go to college this fall and I might not be able to afford storage for my kit.

Also if any of you all have any routines I could do to gain complete limb control plz post and let me know, and if you can e-mail me jmr2master@yahoo.com,or jmr2master@aol.com.
thanks.

[Bonham to the moon]

your 18 and your parents buy you drum stuff? wow your lucky

[RTDRUMS]

the only way to get your double bass up to speed in a month is 8 hours of practice a day. Seriously, start with playing 8th notes on the left foot(8th notes are what we usually play on the hihat with our right hand) this will build your weak leg up. while doing that play normal beats on the right pedal and you might come up with some cool patterns. Then, learn to play all the rudiments with your hands and feet. this should help however if you dont continue to practice at school you will lose all you have worked for. So I recomend you get a bassdrum practice pad and a snare pad and go to town. Check out Thomas Lang

[beatz]

A time honored classic is always the Stick Control but with the feet. Maybe you could check out Thomas Lang's dvd, its a bit advanced but if you're up for a good hard challenge this is for you.

[thrashed]

Last christmas I was given a Sonor DP 492 S Double Bass Drum Pedal. because I wanted to try out double bass pedals. But I can't play double bass very well at all!!
every time i practice it i can keep the left, right pattern going between the feet but when i try adding a snare part in the beat or a non-stop ride cymbal beat with the double bass i mess up and if i try making the double bassing faster (as i can only do it slowly) my feet can keep up with each other and end up hitting at the same.

Help need badly!!

Thanks for you help (in advance!) :)

[finnhiggins]

Last christmas I was given a Sonor DP 492 S Double Bass Drum Pedal. because I wanted to try out double bass pedals. But I can't play double bass very well at all!!
every time i practice it i can keep the left, right pattern going between the feet but when i try adding a snare part in the beat or a non-stop ride cymbal beat with the double bass i mess up and if i try making the double bassing faster (as i can only do it slowly) my feet can keep up with each other and end up hitting at the same.

Help need badly!!

Thanks for you help (in advance!) :)

OK, Step one: Stop caring what brand your pedal is and make friends with it for the next five years, because a new pedal is just an excuse for poor practice habits :)

Step two: If you can't play double kick fast, don't. Slow down and work out exactly what movements you want each foot to do individually. Get that going in a smooth relaxed way, then practice stopping and starting each foot while keeping the other one going. Keep an eye on your movements and make sure you're not "rushing" or tensing up. Keep everything smooth, easy and relaxed.

Step three: Add in a ride cymbal. If you're playing RLRL with the feet, play eighth notes on the ride cymbal - you just need to play the right hand with the right foot. If you can't do this, slow the hell down until you can. It's pretty easy. Again, get it going in a smooth relaxed way and don't try to speed up until it feels like the easiest thing you've ever done in your life.

Step four: Add the snare drum. Still playing slowly, add it in on the two and the four. It will fall in unison with your right foot and right hand, make sure there is no flamming. Again, practice until it sounds tight, feels relaxed and is DEAD EASY. Check the technique on all four limbs with a mirror, make sure everything is still relaxed and smooth.

Step five: Gradually increase the speed. Once you start to tense up or flam notes then stop speeding up. Use a metronome - mark the fastest tempo you can do while fully relaxed.

Repeat this every day, and try to beat your tempo the previous day by 1-2bpm a day. After a month you'll be up to pretty respectable speeds with a four-limbed double kick groove, and it'll be easy as pie.

[dan]

Watch your posture aswell cause thats what messed me up in the beggining, when I was only using the feet I would lean back a bit without noticing it.

[thrashed]

thanks for your help!

[drumbastard]

some exercises i do every day is this (without any pedals just sitting on a chair with my stix)
right hand and right foot alternating singles: right hand, right foot ......and then do the same thing with my left foot and hand...and all HEEL DOWN...that helped me alot try it!!

[Anduin]

A couple of good exercises (from Tommy "the red shoes" Lange's video):

Upper case is hands, lower case is feet.

RrRrRrRrLlLlLlLl

RrRrRrLlLlLl

RrRrLlLl

RrLl


Hands: R-L-R-L-RLRLRLRL
_Feet: RLRLRLRLR-L-R-L-


In this second exercise, the hands pattern and the feet pattern are the same, but you play them kind of inverted on each other.

Play each one a million times. Start slow. Use a metronome, or play to music recorded to a click.

[aahznightsky]

welcome to the club buddy! I'm just getting into double bass playing now too. Actually, i got the pedal two weeks ago and haven't really started yet so. Oh boy!

[BarryBuchanan]

Build it up. But remember the rule.... "Your only as fast as your left foot/leg." if your left cant go as fast as your right only go at a speed that your left is comfortable with. As you do more Double Bass you left gets stronger and faster and in no time u will be speeding away. And always keep your right foot in time with your right hand " 1, 2, 3,4" and then when you do 16ths, put your left foot in on the off beats eg " 1&2&3&4&1&2&3&4"
i used to be crap. I bought a double kick last year and for six mounths i was doing random, un co-oridinated speeds which sped up and down all the time. Then 6 mounths ago i had lessons with a new guy who does double bass aswell. Now i am doing Double Kick as fast as Joey Jordison and as powerful as Dave lombardo. Also a cool thing to do is to do quadruplets. Do a four bar fill BUT, do two beats on the toms then two on the bass drums and go " snare snare,bass bass, high high,bass bass, low low,bass bass floor floor, bass bass." but do it in " 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4....." like a 4 bar fill it sound lush as f**k!!!
www.nochaa.tk

[setroth]

Hey, um im a bit angry at my double bass pedal, cuz yesterday i was using it, and i cud do it fine, like playin overkill and whatnot, and today now after practicing at a drum kit with a single bass pedal, ive come home to realise im terrible at the double bass pedal!!!aaah its very annoying....i dont get it, do u have to CONSTANTLY play with a double bass pedal to stay good using it, or are there good/bad days on it or what???reply plz!!!!!

[crazydrummer14]

hey, i just recently bought a double bass pedal and i barely make any progress in a month! i cant even keep a steady beat

im self learned and ive only have been playing for about a year, so i dont know what to do! any suggestions on how to improve my technique?

do i have to excercise continuously (i have to admit im a bit out of shape)?


PLEASE HELP!!!

[ale52]

Start sloooooooowly! You are training your muscles to do something new. When you got your first bike you didn't just hop on and go. No, you took your time to learn balance, work the brakes, pedal, avoid cars and dogs ;-), etc. Same thing with you new pedals. You aren't going to go blazing with them right off the bat. It will be awkward at first.

Get George Lawerence Stone's book "Stick Control" and do the exercises with your feet...slowly. Get a metronome and start out at 50 bpm [beats per minute]. Pay attention to what your right leg does [I'm assuming you're right-handed] and copy it with your left. Feel the muscles and concentrate on each movement. Slow is your motto. In time move the metronome up a notch to a faster bpm.

Don't worry, you'll get there, but it will take time. Use it wisely and don't get impatient.

Alan <><

[jamndrummer]

That is not a long time at all......your feet are just like your hands............they need to learn and at a steady pace.................I have only been playing double kick for about 7 months.............and believe me......I practice it every day and its grueling sometimes, but I will tell you some things you can do..........

1. practice with a metronome to keep your feet even sounding....
2. make sure both beaters are at the same distance from the head of the bass drum.
3. make sure the tension on the pedals are the same..

This will keep you working both feet at the same pace...

Now you can play 16th note singles with your feet while playing either quarter notes, eight notes or 16th notes on the hihat while playing 2 & 4 on the snare drum......
This exercise will build stamina in your legs.............I recommend playing both heal down and with your toes to build both sides of your legs....

Then you can also play triplets on the BD using the same concept above but changing your hihat to quarters, triplets............

Check out www.tigerbill.com for some free exercises to practice............

Keep plugging away................you will be soooooooooooo happy if you keep going and watch yourself improve.

[crazydrummer14]

thanks for your help guys, but im left handed and i play the drums right handed, so will that make double bass even harder for me?

[jamsjr44]

Not it won't....

Everyone is one side dominate that is just nature, but in drumming you really need to think as your body as whole and spend equal time developing each hand or foot. I've been playing double bass for about 17 years now and I have always expressed control and feel more than speed. Now with everyone playing incredibly fast double bass ( Jason Bitner, Thomas Lang, etc) I have had to change my practice routine to accomplish that. Not that I will ever play that fast continually for any song, but it's just the idea of expanding my abilities.

But start slowly and get the timing and feel down, the power and speed will come around but it is a work in progress. It's not like you can take a pill or stick a needle in you to get better faster like baseball players do...LOL

[Wegadrummer]

Not it won't....

Everyone is one side dominate that is just nature, but in drumming you really need to think as your body as whole and spend equal time developing each hand or foot. I've been playing double bass for about 17 years now and I have always expressed control and feel more than speed. Now with everyone playing incredibly fast double bass ( Jason Bitner, Thomas Lang, etc) I have had to change my practice routine to accomplish that. Not that I will ever play that fast continually for any song, but it's just the idea of expanding my abilities.

But start slowly and get the timing and feel down, the power and speed will come around but it is a work in progress. It's not like you can take a pill or stick a needle in you to get better faster like baseball players do...LOL

yeah, same hear.. i can play fast and that stuff.. but its not my kind of music..
when i got a double pedal i just started playing LRLRLRLRLR and RLRLRLR and building speed..
and then i started playing LLRRLLRR and RRLLRRLL and so on.. just try out to build your mucles..

[aarbo]

In the first months when I got my double pedal I didn't have much success either. What helped me getting a feeling for the pedal was putting the pedal with a practice pad under my desk and playing around while working or surfing the internet. Just what came to my mind (subconciously): rudiments, rhythms from the radio.... After few weeks it grew...

[minishee07]

ya, when i play double bass i always seem to lean back on the throne a lil...any suggestions? advise? thx

[G-MaN91]

im thinking you play heel up? if so, youre most likely leaning back to give yourself more balance. i tend to do it myself.

[drumzalicious]

i dont think its something to worry about it's most likely a natural reaction of your body so that you stay balanced.

[Speedy]

I usually play a little bent over sometimes playing heel up on double kicks. I never really lean back though. Either straight up or bent over.

[Colin]

I tend to keep my back straight in a good posture— the way your spine is meant to be. It helps your balance, and just... works! Sometimes I'll lean, but I try to keep my back as straight as possible. Make sure if you are leaning over, you're not bending you spine, keep it straight. It will help your technique.

[MaxRoach]

I used to lean back too. With more practice at posture, you learn to sit up straight...and it gives way more balance when you're perpendicular to the ground.

[jamndrummer]

Im into the Gadd bend

[Joe Morris]

I Lean back too, I think its ok. Its much better than leaning into the drums. Sometimes I find myself almost falling forward into my drums. I hate that, I would much rather lean back. I wouldn't worry about it.

[patcityrockers]

yeah I have good and bad days with the double bass. I guess I never have a really good day cuz I'm not that good at at it yet but somedays I play better than others

[Henry II]

Most players play double bass by lifting their whole legs, as opposed to ankle pivot. Leaning back makes it easier to lift your legs and stay balanced. If you lean forward and lift your legs you're going to end up falling forward.

[minishee07]

k...thnx for the reassurance

[Bonzo]

Another thought: Are you sitting on the front edge of your throne, or are you comfortably in the middle? I sometimes tend to sit up too far and that's where I find myself losing balance and having to lean back a little. Make sure you're sitting comfortably.

[somedrummer]

Does anyone know of any double-bass specific books. I suppose stick control is a good place to start but what about something specific to double bass? Thanks,

Rob

[Jason_drum]

hey does aney one know if their's a certian way you set you're pettels and tune the bass head's to make everything easer if all you play is double bass. o yeah i'm geting new beaters is their sertian beaters that would be bator i know light ones but aney other things about it. i'm looking into hard core kind of music.
o yeah what i have is a 20\17.5 bass drum with aquraian performince heads their like mufeld so i have really quick responce it doesen't ring out a lot. and i have just standord pearl petels single chain and i can drop the beaters away from the head
i've ben playing 4 years now

[jamndrummer]

#8 08-10-2005, 10:21 PM
somedrummer
Member Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 89


Re: DOUBLE BASS HELP!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know of any double-bass specific books. I suppose stick control is a good place to start but what about something specific to double bass? Thanks,

Rob

Try this, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0634014676//102-9229950-5566551

[Thinshells]

Commandments of double kick drum playing

1 Thou shalt learn balance and be anchored.
The key to starting off, is to make sure that both feet can be flat on the floor, and your throne holds you solidly. Wobbling or tipping one way or the others ruins things.

2 Thou shalt observe proper kick drum geometry
Make sure both kick drums are equally angled, at a reasonable distance. Too far apart and things get awkward. The angle should be natural so that both pedal hit the same time

3 Thou shalt start slowly and follow thy hands
Play a pattern with your hands at the same time as your feet. Whatever your hands do, your feet should also

4 Thou shalt learn control and time before speed.
Don't try to play along with slipknot before you have mastered a basic LRLR

5 Thou shalt learn heel-toe for both feet
Heel toe adds dramatic possibilities and speed, fills and equality of action

6 Thou shalt use a metronome
You need to be able to be steady and know what speed you are playing

I *highly* recommend you get the double bass technique DVD by Joe Franco. It starts with the basics and shows you a variety of beats and fills. It will get you off to a flying start!

I also recommend you have solid pedals to play on. Cheapo pedals held me back for quite a while while I was learning.

I will admit that I ended up playing twin pedal (DW9002) on a single kick for ergonomic reasons and smaller venue gigging.

Practice hard and good luck!

[Jason_drum]

hey thanks for the commandments >_<
okay spring tinchen would you say it neads to be high or should i use the bounce of the head more. and yeah i know i nead to get new petels these singel chane things are weard and it sucks i have my drum set in my room because it's the only place to put it and i have paded carpet so yeah it does afect everything as you said.

[Thinshells]

hey thanks for the commandments >_<
okay spring tinchen would you say it neads to be high or should i use the bounce of the head more. and yeah i know i nead to get new petels these singel chane things are weard and it sucks i have my drum set in my room because it's the only place to put it and i have paded carpet so yeah it does afect everything as you said.

I think for beginners, you should have low to moderate tension. You don't want the pedal to fight you. But you need enough tension so that the pedal responds. It's that zone between dead, and too tight.

[Jason_drum]

yeah okay their's one teckneek my drum instructor showed me it's ware you lift you're heel and just have you're toe near the botom of the foot board and you do like what you would do when you're board and you're figiting like move you're heel up and down. i can go pretty fast that way with the single but when i go to double it just ends up both feet go in-sink with eachother and it's all weard. has aneyone done that.
yeah i've ben using that method with the single if i nead just a constent doing 8th notes

[hotsauce3n]

hey it took me 3 months to get down my double bass good enough when i first got it, i found it really difficult, but really start slowly dont push your self to go fast at first just get down the eveness and then groove and work up your speed, that will really help in the long run

[jamndrummer]

So you all know about the scriptures............at least the THOU SHALT part :)

[Thinshells]

So you all know about the scriptures............at least the THOU SHALT part :)


Kind of like the church of the latter-day drummers....

Lang 3:16 "...and God created linear drumming. Linear drumming begat superior techniques. He saw that this was good, and bestowed upon man new inventiveness that they make a joyful noise onto the Lord..." From the book of Creative Control

;)

[Jason_drum]

hey i've ben playing in my room with paded carpet and i was jaming with some guys and they wanted to play out side in the gradge ware it's seament. o man it's so much easer to play double bace when you're peddels are more stable. it's a huge difrence. next time i get a chance i was going to go out and buy a peace of ply wood and put the thin turf carpet on it. throw that on my flore that should work. has aneyone elce done aneything like that

[revdshepard]

Hi All,

These are all good tips, but my problem seems to be one of physical balance. What I mean is that whenever I lift my heels to play both pedals, my body wants to lean forward, so I purposely lean back a little to compensate. However, this throws my balance off, so that my whole center of gravity is gone. I find that if I play heel down with both feet or heel down with one foot and heel up with the other, I'm O.K., but with both feet heel up, I'm sunk. Any ideas?

[Thinshells]

Hi All,

These are all good tips, but my problem seems to be one of physical balance. What I mean is that whenever I lift my heels to play both pedals, my body wants to lean forward, so I purposely lean back a little to compensate. However, this throws my balance off, so that my whole center of gravity is gone. I find that if I play heel down with both feet or heel down with one foot and heel up with the other, I'm O.K., but with both feet heel up, I'm sunk. Any ideas?

Try lowering your throne. You should be able to sit with knees streight out, feet totally flat on the floor with back streight. There should be no stretching or reaching required-comfortable and relaxed posture. Leaning is a sign you are probably seated too high. Maybe your whole kit needs to be lower as well.

[Elemental Nausea]

Jason drum, what the f*** is wrong with your spelling??

[revdshepard]

As I sit, my thighs are parallel to the floor, and I can rest my feet comfortably on the floor without straining. The kit is pretty ergonomically set: snare at belt buckle height, cymbals slightly above shoulder level, floor tom level with snare, and the rack toms (10, 12, 14 older style without extra depth) are as low as they can go over a 24" kick. I've played with the stool height somewhat, but to no avail. This may sound like a funny question, but do you think the size of my feet have anything to do with it? They're size 13 American, which isn't overly huge, but bigger than average. Just a thought-

[Tama69]

It means you need more spring tension.....trust me
Denny

[somedrummer]

Hey RedV

I think I know how you feel. I wear size 16 American and I used to have a double bass pedal. Now, Im not sure whether it was the lack of effort on my part or some physical problem that kept me from gaining any dexterity and feeling a little out of balance on the double pedal. So I really dont have an answer to your question, but maybe this could lead to some sort of study on the size of peoples feet and how balanced they are at the drums??? All I can offer is to wish you good luck.

[Thinshells]

Hey RedV

I think I know how you feel. I wear size 16 American and I used to have a double bass pedal. Now, Im not sure whether it was the lack of effort on my part or some physical problem that kept me from gaining any dexterity and feeling a little out of balance on the double pedal. So I really dont have an answer to your question, but maybe this could lead to some sort of study on the size of peoples feet and how balanced they are at the drums??? All I can offer is to wish you good luck.

You two should look into two of the longest footboard pedals out there. Both have footboards significantly longer than pearl, DW or tama.

One is the Janus ergo (by Mapex) and the Axis longboards.

[Tama69]

go look at my post it says help for dbl bass drummers . You will find it helpful.I have been playing dbl bass for 21 yrs. Denny

[Anduin]

I wear size 16

Ladies, please, form a line. He's suddenly become a real popular guy!

[Jason_drum]

Jason drum, what the f*** is wrong with your spelling??

sorry about that i know it's horible
o C**** i posted that
yeah i can't spell

[hank77]

All of the advice so far has been great.
I will throw a little tidbit at you.
Remove the beater on your dominant pedal, AKA your right foot. Use your hi-hat foot on the kick only, do this for a month or so bringing your foot up to a fairly comfortably level with your dominant foot. Try double and triple strokes (Bonham/McBrain are masters of this) with your weak foot, you will be amazed at how little dexterity you have at first but it will get better with time and practice. Good Luck!
LATER

[eastcoastdrummer90210]

Try making sure your feet never leave the pedal when you lift up after striking the bass drum. I've done this for awhile, and since, I've had no balance problems.

[Sticktrick]

No, leaning backwards is not better than forward. Watch the Thomas Lang DVD Creative control on that matter if you like.

If you lean forward, the way to toms and cymbals is shorter and therefore you don´t need to use that much armmotion. Try out playing lets say a cross sticking combo on Toms leaning backwards and forwards. You will find a HUGE difference.

About your Problem: Very likely your Drumthrone is too low, so raise it a lillte. When you play heel up and you lift your heel, your upper leg should be exactly parallel to the floor and never ever be pointing upwards. You might also have to lift your Snare - it should be exactly on the hight of your belly button. I know some great players also sit very low (Vinnie is a good example - he almost sits on the floor), but it is definitely the better way to use the way I described. Don´t get used to bad habits.
Don´t be sitting to hight either - that way you will loose the connection to the drumset.
Cheers!

[Edward]

Just practice and it'll go away eventually.

[petealdrums]

hey, one months practice is nothin ! Some things will take years to perfect, so don't be disheartened.

I have found that with double bass, you first must practice SLOW and with a metronome, otherwise you will find yourself speeding up to a speed you are not yet capable of, and it will start sounding uneven, and get disheartened. You need to get a momentum going at slow speed at just keep going at that speed. Try different things with your hands while you are at it - but STAY IN TIME. Keep that speed going for a few weeks, then increase the tempo a bit - but don't even think about mega fast stuff yet. If you think you have to go back to a slower speed, don't worry, you are still strengthening your muscles at the slower speed, and more importantly you are learing to play IN TIME.

The other thing I have found is BALANCE - with single bass drum, the heel of your left foot can be flat on the floor giving you stability. But with double bass, both heels are (usually) up, this throws you of balance; its like running while sitting down. This takes a while to get used to, especially if you are changing from hi hat to bass drum mid song. Also, I have had problems with my back because of this and have just invested in a stool with a back - this helps with double bass because it adds stability hence will help with balance.

[undertow]

double isn’t that hard get a practice bad and practice .. practice … practice ... you'll be on your way

imo fast dbl is overrated

[mont_man22]

i tend to do this to i think its because it takes weight of your feet and makes you feel like your floating over the pedals however its a pad habbit and limits your controll dont do it.

[deltadrummer1]

Maybe if you you bought one of those thrones with a backstop..could that help out and give you some leverage?

[swisscheese]

i recently purchased a double bass pedal and was just hoping to get some general tips on how to increase speed and just technique and general. ive been playing set for a while but this is extremely new to me. i need all the help i can get

[craigwikert]

practice rudiments. the ones i have found most helpful to increase speed, control, and endurance are double stroke rolls, all the paradiddle rudiments. and the flam rudiments. great double strokes take years, to build up though, so dont get discouraged if you arent blazingly fast right away.

[frog]

hi i have the same problem.i like to think of my last bad day as a good day from the last bad day, its my only way of keeping sane.hope that helps

[mediocrefunkybeat]

In my experience, yes, you have to constantly practice the double pedal to keep it up. I went away from a double for a while and came back to find my playing even worse than before. It was bad to start with. Now I just can't be bothered.

[Tyrnox]

In my 3 hours or so of daily practice, 1-2 two hours is usualy concentrated on my feet, so that I can play what I composed with my band... if that gives you any idea's...

[raf_v]

does enybody know how you have to speed up your tempo with double bass kick?

give tips,hints and all the rest .....................




thanks before ;-)



raf

[Johnny_Stacks]

I dont really understand what your asking here? maybe reword it a little bit. But what my understanding of what you said is How do i increase my speed on a double bass kick? if thats not it then disregard what i am about to say lol.. if you want to increase your speed just tap your feet all the time. thats what i did. at school i would tap my feet and i would get introble but oh well right? lol. and at home i built a double bass thing where i would sit at my desk doing my homework doing parididdles with 2 bass drums hitting a bed.. so try that..

Peace- John

[BboyShifty1]

I have a problem with my bass drumming. I've been trying for like a month now to get my foot to work but it just isn't working.

Here's the problem.

Thumper Sixteenth Note Bass (http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Advanced&SubCategory=Sixteenth%20Notes%20on%20Bass%20Drum&LessonID=Advanced3)

I've been trying to master those beats. I'm fine except for parts when I need to do 16th bass notes. My foot doesn't always respond as I want it to when i reach those fast bass notes, so I can't get the beats perfectly. I don't know if its my seat height, my pedal, or just my skill that prevents me from getting those 16th notes. I'm getting really frustrated over this and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for what I can do to fix this, or if anyones come across this problem. Perhaps more exercise is needed on my foot? Any feedback would be helpful, thanks.

P.S.
Btw my pedal is Pulse Pro Single Chain, and I use an electronic set right now (mesh heads for bass drum). It bounces a lot when it hits the head, so im not sure if its simliar to that of a normal bass head too. I thought i should add that.

[NaturalRaz]

I dont really understand what your asking here? maybe reword it a little bit. But what my understanding of what you said is How do i increase my speed on a double bass kick? if thats not it then disregard what i am about to say lol.. if you want to increase your speed just tap your feet all the time. thats what i did. at school i would tap my feet and i would get introble but oh well right? lol. and at home i built a double bass thing where i would sit at my desk doing my homework doing parididdles with 2 bass drums hitting a bed.. so try that..

Peace- John

Hahahaha...I still get introuble for doing that. I am 28 years old and my wife likes to throw stuff at me cuz I am always playing the bass drum on the floor with my feet. The best part is...........I don't even know that I am doing it until she hits me with something. I gotta say tho...I have become really good on solid floors with my feet....hahahahaha!

But...to answer the question........don't play flat-footed on your bass pedals. Don't ever allow your heels to touch the groung or pedals. Keep the balls of your feet on the pedals the entire time and don't ever lay your heels down. I don't know if you'll understand what I am saying...buts its the best way I can explain.

[drumprodigy89]

I know theres a thread about heel up playing already but i wanted my own attention and answers so please help....when i began playing set i used heel up..it felt natural to me..i began taking lesons and my teacher taught me heel down technique and since then thats what ive used. well, i know that pros combine those two techniques so i was jus messing around a lil today and heel up just doesnt feel rite to me nemore...and i dont have the speed and control that i want and once had with that technique. so i want some inspiration and direction please. how will re learning heel up benefit my playing? My hands are excellent(not to be cocky), its just my feet i have to master and off to my berklee auditions i go...

[Johnny_Stacks]

Keep the balls of your feet on the pedals the entire time and don't ever lay your heels down.

Couldnt of said it better. You always want to be on top of the pedal and be ready for the bass shots. Its just like in gym class when the teachers are screaming " BE IN YOUR ATHLETC POSITION!" well having the balls of your pedal is your athletic position in drumming. and keeping your back straight.. so keep that in mind.
Also go here http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1625&highlight=dave+lombardo
and in one of the clips dave lombardo shows you have he keeps on top of the pedal and how he does his galaping move with the pedal.. hope to of helped you..

John

[theduke86]

Heel up gives you really fast doubles that you can't get with heel down. Furthermore, I feel it has a larger dynamic range... it's easier to be louder, you just have to learn to control it at soft dynamic levels. I think it's also easier from a muscular perspective... in heel down position, you're only using your ankles, whereas in heel up you are utilizing your entire leg as well as ankle. It's easier to use two muscle groups to do an action than one. As long as you're being efficient.

[finnhiggins]

Heel up gives you really fast doubles that you can't get with heel down. Furthermore, I feel it has a larger dynamic range... it's easier to be louder, you just have to learn to control it at soft dynamic levels. I think it's also easier from a muscular perspective... in heel down position, you're only using your ankles, whereas in heel up you are utilizing your entire leg as well as ankle. It's easier to use two muscle groups to do an action than one. As long as you're being efficient.

I use both. Heel up is great for fast and loud, but IMHO it's hard to play quietly without tensing up your leg to avoid dropping the whole weight on the pedal during the stroke. So now I can play heel down for quiet notes and transition to heel up for louder ones. Works pretty good, I can't see anything I couldn't achieve with it. And it looks a lot like what Thomas Lang does on his DVD, so I guess that's got to be a good thing too.

[gheeuk]

any tips or patterns or whatever on drum solos ... that seems the last bit of my drumming dream. please and do PM me ... thanks ...

[NaturalRaz]

"Heel up" for regular playing and "heel down" for quiet playing.

[DRMON]

I am a professional who has always played single kick. To achieve a double kick groove I pedal hi hat with my left foot on down beats, along with my right hand on the floor tom. I play my kick on the "and." This gives me my "fake" double bass groove.
Well I now have a double pedal and the way it feels best to pedal continuous 16ths is to lead with my left foot( I'm right handed). Sometimes it feels good and sometimes not,especially when bpm is increased.
MY ?, Am I wasting time leading with the left? Since I'm a righty should I be spending my slim and valuable practice time leading with Rt??? Yelp me.

[finnhiggins]

I am a professional who has always played single kick. To achieve a double kick groove I pedal hi hat with my left foot on down beats, along with my right hand on the floor tom. I play my kick on the "and." This gives me my "fake" double bass groove.
Well I now have a double pedal and the way it feels best to pedal continuous 16ths is to lead with my left foot( I'm right handed). Sometimes it feels good and sometimes not,especially when bpm is increased.
MY ?, Am I wasting time leading with the left? Since I'm a righty should I be spending my slim and valuable practice time leading with Rt??? Yelp me.

There's plenty of good double players who lead with the left. If that works for you, stick with it! Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense - you spend more time training yourself to play off-beats with the right foot and on-beats with the left in normal groove playing, so why not continued that way on the double pedal?

[aahznightsky]

I think that leading with the left is a terrific way to go! Especially because double bass beats aren't my main staple of vocabulary, I like to be able to get my left foot right back onto the hi hat pedal on the first beat and thats alot easier when leading with the left foot...

[theduke86]

I use both. Heel up is great for fast and loud, but IMHO it's hard to play quietly without tensing up your leg to avoid dropping the whole weight on the pedal during the stroke. So now I can play heel down for quiet notes and transition to heel up for louder ones. Works pretty good, I can't see anything I couldn't achieve with it. And it looks a lot like what Thomas Lang does on his DVD, so I guess that's got to be a good thing too.
I personally don't have a problem with that... but as an addenum I should add that whenever I'm playing jazz with four on the floor, it's heel down... whenever i want a real nice ring tone.
I guess maybe both is the way. However I think you can handle 95% of situations heel up.

[aahznightsky]

I personally don't have a problem with that... but as an addenum I should add that whenever I'm playing jazz with four on the floor, it's heel down... whenever i want a real nice ring tone.
I guess maybe both is the way. However I think you can handle 95% of situations heel up.


I'm probably about 95% heel up. I can go just as quiet heel up, and a whole lot faster, but when I'm doing super quiet things that aren't fast, i find it easier to do heel down so i don't waste energy lifting my whole leg up.

[on_the_one]

I have a problem with my bass drumming. I've been trying for like a month now to get my foot to work but it just isn't working.

Here's the problem.

Thumper Sixteenth Note Bass (http://216.103.111.115/perl/drums/index.cgi?Action=OnlineLessons&Skill=Advanced&SubCategory=Sixteenth%20Notes%20on%20Bass%20Drum&LessonID=Advanced3)

I've been trying to master those beats. I'm fine except for parts when I need to do 16th bass notes. My foot doesn't always respond as I want it to when i reach those fast bass notes, so I can't get the beats perfectly. I don't know if its my seat height, my pedal, or just my skill that prevents me from getting those 16th notes. I'm getting really frustrated over this and I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for what I can do to fix this, or if anyones come across this problem. Perhaps more exercise is needed on my foot? Any feedback would be helpful, thanks.

P.S.
Btw my pedal is Pulse Pro Single Chain, and I use an electronic set right now (mesh heads for bass drum). It bounces a lot when it hits the head, so im not sure if its simliar to that of a normal bass head too. I thought i should add that.


PRACTICE S L O W L Y !

[the-false-god]

Man, i'm new here so jah!
i can't double bass worth crap, i work on it all the time but i just can't do it so fluently as some people who work on it like half as much as me
i can't do it fast, i can do it slowly and slowly increment faster but then my legs just kind of drop at the same time, i use my anckles and knees and everything, and i have perfect single bass techniqe but the dang feet togather stink.
i own a almost new DW 5000 powerglide offset cam double bass pedel and i use a roc'n'soc throne, how it the heck do i get these fast beats, i have the best equipment but its not workin fo me?

[jjand1_03]

What worked best for me was just to treat my feet like my hands. The same rudiments I practice with my hands I do with my feet. They don't even have to be difficult rudiments.

LRLRLRLR
RLRLRLRL
RRLLRRLL
LLRRLLRR

Also, don't forget that I takes time to learn something new like double bass. I have been playing the drums for about eight years. It was only about a year and a half ago when I started playing double bass. I would get so fustrated at first because it made me realize that after all these years of playing the drums my left foot still was not as coordinated as my right. But with time that changed. Don't worry. Just practice and you will get it. Everybody here has gone through the same thing. GOOD LUCK!

[NUTHA JASON]

i've merged all the double bass threads for your convenience.


i noticed while at drummerlive 2005 that a lot of the pros play threir pedals with the outside edge of their foot when playing at speed. virgil actually twists his feet slightly inward so that the top outside edge of his feet are on the 'sweet spot' of his pedal boards. jason bittner as well. try this out and see if it helps.
j

[the-false-god]

i have been doing that, sometimes i can really get it rolling fast and in line, but othertimes i just can't do it, i have been working on my double bass for about a year and seven months, avidly, i do the lrlrlr llrrllrrll llrrlrllrrlrl
i do them all good, but when i try to get a good roll going, i'm just failing at it, i do notice that i use my feet in weird positions when i do it though. i kinda point my toe inward when i do it, but only my left foot does that.
i figured my leg strength was not enouph, but i do about 250 lbs max on leg extentions and about the same with the opposite, and my leg press is around 300 lbs. now, my legs are not weak. either that i'm a wuss and so is most everyone i know haha. anyhow ya i don't get why i can't roll
ps my left foot can do almost as good as my right in single pedal beats, mabey a little faster even><

[NUTHA JASON]

when jason bittner talked about how to get his incredible d/bass technique he said it was simple: practice d/bass for two hours a day for ten years. i don't play d/bass at all. but i know what he means. it is like running. no one can stand up and run a marathon in record timing without years of training. there is no fast track to it. you just practice and make sure you are using the correct technique even if it means going slower for now. in my opinion learning an bunch of clever foot ostinatos between hi hat and bass is far more rewarding and musical than any double bass work. after watching nico mcbrain i'm convinced that d/bass need not be a generic part of metal drumming.


j

[aahznightsky]

My usual technique for double bass is the "slide" technique. That allows me to get double strokes going super fast.

When I do single stroke rolls or just fast sixteenth notes with one foot, my feet move near the bottom of the pedal where you have to move less to get the same amount of motion from the beater, gets things faster for me.


Bernhard mentioned how JoJo Mayer has started working on double bass stuff. Oh boy. When he gets his left foot up there things will be insane!!!!

[raf_v]

I JUST HAVE 1 QUESTION ABOUT THE DOUBLE PEDAL !

HOW DO YOU SPEED UP YOUR TEMPO?

EVERYTHING IS WELCOME :P







THX

[xkevinx]

i used to be fairly quick when i was really into metal. others might have some better advice for efficiency or interesting techniques, but i would reccomend just developing the muscles as much as possible. its very hard to play fast double bass flat foot, so work on your heel up playing. just play a rock beat and play 16ths on the double pedal, starting slow and work your way up gradually. if you can use a combination of your ankle muscles that are used in flat foot playing and your leg muscles, you can do some pretty fast stuff. also do paradiddles (double and triple paradiddles too) with your feet. practise until the muscles you are using feel exhausted. give a day in between and then go back to it. you'll notice a big difference even within a week or two. i guess this is all common sense but it's how i got quick. if anyone else has any tips i'd like to hear those too.

[toteman2]

My usual technique for double bass is the "slide" technique. That allows me to get double strokes going super fast.

When I do single stroke rolls or just fast sixteenth notes with one foot, my feet move near the bottom of the pedal where you have to move less to get the same amount of motion from the beater, gets things faster for me.


Bernhard mentioned how JoJo Mayer has started working on double bass stuff. Oh boy. When he gets his left foot up there things will be insane!!!!



Single stroke roll with 1 foot? Now thats something i would really like to see...

[aahznightsky]

Single stroke roll with 1 foot? Now thats something i would really like to see...


hahaha no i don't mean with one foot! stroke rolls with both or sixteenth notes/sixteenth note triplets with one....

[low-tech]

i used to be fairly quick when i was really into metal. others might have some better advice for efficiency or interesting techniques, but i would reccomend just developing the muscles as much as possible. its very hard to play fast double bass flat foot, so work on your heel up playing. just play a rock beat and play 16ths on the double pedal, starting slow and work your way up gradually. if you can use a combination of your ankle muscles that are used in flat foot playing and your leg muscles, you can do some pretty fast stuff. also do paradiddles (double and triple paradiddles too) with your feet. practise until the muscles you are using feel exhausted. give a day in between and then go back to it. you'll notice a big difference even within a week or two. i guess this is all common sense but it's how i got quick. if anyone else has any tips i'd like to hear those too.

i actually can do a fast single stroke 16th roll on double alot esier than a mid tempo single stroke roll. you just get your feet twitch mode. its the slower tempos i have a hard time with

[Smoky_McPot]

In response to Nutha Jason - I think that working up double kick speed is important for metal drumming. Now it doesn't need to be used generically, but it is very hard to play complex fast rhythms if you cannot play double kick singles fast. Someone mentioned on here that beginner pedals held them back. That has been my feeling for quite some time but due to financial contraints i just cannot afford a decent pair. What level did you achieve on the poor kick pedals? I can play some slipknot, sum nice dbl kick triplets in System of a Down - BYOB, and the triplet ending in Tool - Schism. But I love Fear Factory and it seems that no matter how hard I try and practice I cannot reach that speed. Think I need to sell a kidney :P

[noVIce LegENd]

one legged roll... i once saw a Thailand Monfort school drummer did it!
He taught me... U kick with heels up and...almost in split sec... use your heel to catch the rebound exert the next stroke... repeat for a one legged roll...
I am not quite sure it works... but seeing is believing... i myself cannot practice it because i have no access to any drumset. But i tried it once in school months ago... and it kinda woked but it is easier if your padel is long. And i am very sure there is no extra equipment attached when the Thai drummer did it.
Pls tell me if anyone has achieved it or heard of it.

[craigwikert]

will someone post a video on how to do a double stroke roll on bass drum because ive got no idea

[NUTHA JASON]

Originally Posted by crazydrummer14
hey, i just recently bought a double bass pedal and i barely make any progress in a month! i cant even keep a steady beat

im self learned and ive only have been playing for about a year, so i dont know what to do! any suggestions on how to improve my technique?

do i have to excercise continuously (i have to admit im a bit out of shape)?


PLEASE HELP!!!


double bass after just one year is ambitious. can you do all the standard single pedal stuff? get that down first.

you need to build up the strength in your left foot, and its rhythmic control. the best way to do this is to force your left foot to play the role that your right hand usually plays. let it ride out 8ths or 16ths on the hihat pedal while the left hand and right foot play the standard grooves. do this very slowly and only for a minute at a time. really get your hi hat to play evenly and clear. if needs be, take a further step back, fold your arms and just play the standard grooves and even rudiments between your feet. does this throw your balance? experiment with ways of moving both feet that do not make you tip forward or back. DO EVERYTHING SLOWLY AND NEATLY. there are no short cuts...just blind alleys so stick to the true way of plodding along and build things up. you will not achieve rolling thunder in a year but you may do very nicely in three years.

j

[(sic)]

i've been using a double-bass pedal for a few months or so now and i'm makng fairly good progress

[insanedrummer]

For anyone who has trouble with double bass just keep at it everyday and practice everyday and after a while it will come to you. At least it did for me.

[(sic)]

thats happening to me. with my double stroke roll i found that if i practice solid for a week or so, whenever i have a few minutes, and leave it for a bit, it suddenly comes to me

[mr_hayward_99]

i want to get a double kick but my left foot is s***!#

and i cant affort one,

so in the mean time i have set my kit uo left handed as well as playing the bass drum with my left foot, admitadly this wont give me much indepedance from my right foot but hopefully it should strenthen my left foot and give independence from my left hand.

i will probably try playing/mimicing the ride cymbal/hihat beats on my left foot though when i change my set up back.

[Thumper1518]

Boy, was I glad to find this thread! I took a 14-year hiatus from drumming (what was I thinking?!?) and found skills had left me (kinda like that Rush song). I got really frustrated and will return to Double Bass 101.

[Lambo]

To be honest, you have to just KEEP practising to songs with high tempos and plenty of 16ths on the feet. Playing heel up also makes a big difference. I've playing for almost 7 years now, and around the 5 year mark I could hit 240bpm. the best thing I found is to play along to cds....starting with some Pantera, then gradually moving on to Slayer, and ending up on stuff like Morbid Angel. You have to just practise everyday, and the technique and stamina will come naturally to you.

[shep]

i love double pedals they are so cool but if they are guna sound good u goda practice so much and when you start the front of your leg canes after runs! triples are also very fun on the double pedal. i have a DW 4000 it aint that gud but its nice!

[DrUmStIcKmUrDeReR]

the best technique is to do it all in slide-technique double strokes. you can get much more power then single strokes, you can go just as fast if not faster, and after learning it well enough, you can move your left foot to your hihat and even play a swing beat with hihat on two and four with your foot while blasting 16s or 32s on double bass! its much harder to learn then single strokes, but its worth it!

[Yanko]

to drumtikmurder: can you explain more clear? how can we move our left foot on hihat pedal?

[drumhead]

Its advertised all over, the system that will make you play crazy Double bass overnite, has anyone tried this? is it effective?

asides from that he also recommends playing barefoot i wonder how that is as well
i could see an advantage by doing that but i wonder how big it is.

[TheCrimsonSunset]

I think Heel Toe is the best for doubles.

[TheCrimsonSunset]

I asked some people on the Virgil Board and 2 of them had bought it an said it was complete bulls*** all he does is show you the Heel Toe technique which you can actually just get for like 20 bucks or something like that.

[Groove Regulator]

One thing I've tried doing when I had trouble with my double bass technique was to switch my feet around. Maybe don't try to jump right into double bass if you're having trouble with your left-foot coordination. I bought a double bass pedal and once I sat down with it I felt very overwhelmed. I realized it wasn't going to be easy to learn how to incorporate double bass. When I wanted to become better at keeping a tempo with my left hand, I tried playing open handed (left hand on the hi-hat and right on the snare). It was very frustrating, but in the end it helped me to develop better technique with my left hand.
You should try switching your hi-hat to the right side of your set and playing bass with your left foot only. I figured if I could teach myself to play everything with my left foot, I would develop better technique. It was very hard to get used to, but when your playing your hi-hat with your right foot and bass with your left foot, it forces you to think about what you're doing and where each instrument fits into your playing. After I could play everything with my left foot, I put my set back to how it was before with the hi-hat on the left. Then I started playing double bass rhythms and realized it was much more natural to put my left foot into the groove.
Take what you want from this, but that's how I learned to play double bass. Another thing, always remember to play everything with your heel up and your heel down, having dynamics with your bass drum is a very valuable skill. Thomas Lang would be a great drummer to look at if you want to see super double bass/ hi-hat technique.
Hope this helps.

[eye_of_the_wiccan]

I used to have troble with getting my double bassest beats straight after using the hi hat but ive learned that all you need to do i get an X clamp for your hi hat

Trust me, they are 50 quid but you cant open them but the sound bloody good ^_^

[Colin]

Hmm... I've seemed to go to the absolute limit on my double pedal. I use a Pacific standard 400 single-chain drive pedal. Would I need an upgrade to get faster? I've been using this pedal for the past two years and I've seemed to exhaust it.

[DoubleBassUrFace]

i got my new dw 7002 about a month ago, and trust me, its worth spending the money on getting quality equipment. ofcourse, thats the mistake i made when i first started playing.

:(, but just keep practicing, i like to play songs with double bass to get used to doing different stuff with my hands and feet at the same time, like learning to use your feet and hands at different speeds is an essetial obviousley.

[Tsht]

Sorry for the terms but I'm not so familiar with music vocabulary in english.

I played single foot for 1 year, not even left foot on hi hat.
So I tried patterns with left foot on hi hat (playing only the beat).
Then I practiced two things a time, sigle stroke rolls and some not linear patterns.

First, the first time I installed the double pedal, I played left foot with left hand on the snare, right foot with right hand on the ride on triplets notes.

Now I use this pattern to make left foot sound like right foot on the bass drum, the heel sticking on the pedal, very slowly, each time I begin :
L L L L LRLRL L L L LRLRL L L L etc. accentuating left
Then
R R R R RLRLR R R R RLRLR R R R etc. accuentuating right
To have same sound. then I try play LRLRLR etc accelerating a bit, but always controlling the sound and the beat.
And when I feel comfortable, I double the strokes unsticking the heel, beating with left hand on hi hat, to achieve max speed ^^

Then I tried these patterns :

LF+HH LF+HH LF+HH RF LF+HH LF+HH etc.
Then LF+HH LF+HH+SNARE RF LF+HH LF+HH+SNARE RFRF LF+HH L+HH+SNARE RFRFRF LF+HH LF+HH+SNARE RF LF+HH etc. to be able to play some not so linear patterns :p
I managed to play some of Cradle of Filth I wanted to play then ^^

[rkettner]

I asked some people on the Virgil Board and 2 of them had bought it an said it was complete bulls*** all he does is show you the Heel Toe technique which you can actually just get for like 20 bucks or something like that.

Yeah, it's available for $19.95 on heeltoetechnique.com (http://www.heeltoetechnique.com). I think it's the video you are talking about. I put it together a few years ago, and Jared put it up there.

[wowzer77]

I have been playing drums for six years, and double bass for just three...I can play fast, but I get tired quick. I tried playing some Shadows Fall...but I always tire out before the end of the song. I play heel DOWN. And every pro drummer I see plays heel up, and never seems to get tired. I know that considering they have been playing for a very long time they have an easier time playing fast and for long periods of time..but I'm the only one I know who plays heel down, so I need to know,,will this effect my future playing? Does playing heel down take less energy? Sinse I play heel down, will I ever be able to surpass my current speed? I guess I just don't know if there are limits considering my playing style. Advice...?

[(sic)]

should i get a double bass pedal or 2 seperate bass drums with single pedals?

[JT1]

I had the same dilema i got a double kick pedal and got used to it and then i decided to add a bass drum to my kit. Adding the second bass drum is excellent for balancing out your kit but you will have to adjust your setup to comply with your needs. As in terms of performance i would say it is more difficult with two bass drums but its worth practicing like that and you can get a good sound out of tuning each bass drum differently. Hope this helps.

[JT1]

I have been playing drums for six years, and double bass for just three...I can play fast, but I get tired quick. I tried playing some Shadows Fall...but I always tire out before the end of the song. I play heel DOWN. And every pro drummer I see plays heel up, and never seems to get tired. I know that considering they have been playing for a very long time they have an easier time playing fast and for long periods of time..but I'm the only one I know who plays heel down, so I need to know,,will this effect my future playing? Does playing heel down take less energy? Sinse I play heel down, will I ever be able to surpass my current speed? I guess I just don't know if there are limits considering my playing style. Advice...?

I also play heel down but ive been playing less time than you for 2.5 years alltogether and seven months with double bass. I always worry about the exact same thing, roughly how long did it take you to become an accurate consistant player? I find i can't keep up consistant roles as my left foot is not as accurate as the right.

[JT1]

I have one question. I have two bass drums one with a Bigdog single chain drive and the other with a double chain drive. With the chain drives being different on each pedal will ths effect my double bass performance?

[Mr Fonzie]

I play with a double bass pedal, a very - one, but a can get to high speed... I've noticed, playing with my friend's Iron Cobra, that if u play with a better bass pedal, the difference in quality is really massive, I mean, I could get to a much higher lever of precision... Any way, if u want to get better just do what I hate most, but trust me, it' necessary... Have Patience! U will find all u nead in u're mind, If u taaake theee tiiiime... Even Dream Theater say it!!!

[wowzer77]

I also play heel down but ive been playing less time than you for 2.5 years alltogether and seven months with double bass. I always worry about the exact same thing, roughly how long did it take you to become an accurate consistant player? I find i can't keep up consistant roles as my left foot is not as accurate as the right.



At first it was hard and I only did short spurts. But first of all, for heel down players, the low line pedals are a lot more conveniant. I have a DW 4000 pedal which I downgraded to from the 5000. The higher you go, the easier to push down it is. With the 4000, its like pushing on water, but it bounces back fast so that when you get going its easier to stay consistent. It took my about a year to become consistant but I always worry about the fact that maybe someday I will need to switch to heel up to achieve max speed. Do paradiddles with your feet! A lot! just practice them slowly for 7 minutes a day and you will eventually find your left foot keeping up with your right better. If you are not familiar with the paradiddle its RLRRLRLL over and over as many times as you want. Another thing that is a bad habit...When you use double bass (and this is still a small habit with me) dont push forward into the bass drums too hard. It becomes a habit when you go fast to push forward into the drum with your feet on the pedal really hard. You will get tired really fast though. Just start off going quietly so that it is easier to go quick. Once you have the quick thing down, the loud thing will start to come naturally...

[zildjian_dude101]

Even if u dont play like, metal, or prog, just try to do a straight double bass beat and at a steady pace, and hold it as long as u can. helped my feet speed alot. also, try looking up aome foot rudiments. this helps ur coordination alot

[kjsm]

Just start off going quietly so that it is easier to go quick. Once you have the quick thing down, the loud thing will start to come naturally...

well said

also, just practising the motion of it (especially the ankle 'twitching', bad name in my opinion) will aid when you eventually get down to it. looking at it the hardest thing is still getting the left and right foot to alternate consistently when you are working on the ankle twitching technique. the problem is, everyone says 'just play slow until it's better', and that applies to a lot of things, but the ankle twitch CANNOT really be played at slow paces. therefroe - DAMN hard to practise.

id love to hear some professional advice here
i know derek roddy for example is a king but you ask him and he just says 'just play man,' and crap like that. great player, probably a great teachener - but too many people bother him i think with stupid questions like 'how u r so fast lolrz1!1' or whatever.

[Tim Waterson]

well said

also, just practising the motion of it (especially the ankle 'twitching', bad name in my opinion) will aid when you eventually get down to it. looking at it the hardest thing is still getting the left and right foot to alternate consistently when you are working on the ankle twitching technique. the problem is, everyone says 'just play slow until it's better', and that applies to a lot of things, but the ankle twitch CANNOT really be played at slow paces. therefroe - DAMN hard to practise.

id love to hear some professional advice here
i know derek roddy for example is a king but you ask him and he just says 'just play man,' and crap like that. great player, probably a great teachener - but too many people bother him i think with stupid questions like 'how u r so fast lolrz1!1' or whatever.

Derek is frustrated everyone wants to learn what he is doing, JK
Every one does it a bit differently but,
Seriously you CAN do the ankle swivel slow if you are controlling the stroke and not just squeezing a shiver from the hip flexor.
This is why it taking so long for my bassdrum DVD to be ready This is hard to explain so drummers can learn it as well as other foot techniques.
Yes Derek is right you need to play to get these things done but IMHO you also need to refine the techniques to get you to your destination.
God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[Tsht]

I have been playing drums for six years, and double bass for just three...I can play fast, but I get tired quick. I tried playing some Shadows Fall...but I always tire out before the end of the song. I play heel DOWN. And every pro drummer I see plays heel up, and never seems to get tired. I know that considering they have been playing for a very long time they have an easier time playing fast and for long periods of time..but I'm the only one I know who plays heel down, so I need to know,,will this effect my future playing? Does playing heel down take less energy? Sinse I play heel down, will I ever be able to surpass my current speed? I guess I just don't know if there are limits considering my playing style. Advice...?

I think it's because you play more with your peg muscles heel down. Many drummers seem to play more with leg muscle when playing heel up. So they have less precise control over sound :/

[skarrred@charter.net]

I have a few questions and comments, firrst off i started playing double bass with a dw 5000 pedal that was old and junk, then i bought a pearl eliminator power shifter, i would like to hear some comments from some drummers who own this pedal, how is the speed and control for you? also i ve been realizing that every time i practice double bass i feel as if im getting faster , quicker , and building more control, but im still not as fast and good as the drummer from slipknot haha, i just started playing with my feet kinda horizontal with the pedal and lifting my legs, it improved my speed and stamina , right away i felt more relaxed, i think the key is to always be relaxed or u will burn out and lose control. my question is do u think i will still be able to gain more speed playing this way the longer i practice??????

[mikei]

I just purchased the eliminator a week and a half ago. I had a really crappy double bass pedal that would constantly stick. Anyway, I can really tell a huge difference. I experimented for the first 3 days with the different cams and spring tension levels. After switching to the white cams with medium to low tension, I noticed a huge difference.

I have enough tension to still do a really quick double kick on one foot without it being adversely effected. I also noticed that playing with shoes for the first time really helped me with speed and more importantly, accuracy. However, since I have read that most people play DB with bare feet, perhaps I need to make some more adjustments.

[NUTHA JASON]

after years after avoiding double bass i have decided not to wait anymore, so i bought me an iron cobra and put it on my practice kit...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/1dddf.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/?)
with my single iron cobra i discovered that the mesh heads actually eat away at the beaters and also to make the noise a little softer so i don't annoy my neighbour i wrapped the beaters in leopard print faux fur. looks quite cool...iwill test it on my real kit and if the sound is cool i will leave them on.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/2dddf.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/?)


i have had it for about a week, and true to my self taught ways i have devised a practice schedule based on some experimenting and seeing what speeds i can play at. here is my half hour routine...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/aaaaaa11111.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/?)

what do you think of it? i do it about three times a day and am starting to get good results already. any other tips?

[franklinj]

Man, Like Dogbreath said a little while ago, your the McGuyver of this forum. I would think that putting those col things on your beaters would slow the reaction down or give it a goofy feel.

Ive been wanting to play doublew bass for a while, and im thinking that ill use your practice schedule. Give us updates on how well it works for you.

[NUTHA JASON]

thanks man. i realise that some of it might not be so clear because i know what i mean and this chart is just to remind me of what i'm doing so here is a bit more. first of all all speeds are 4/4 beats/min.


in exercise one:
5 strokes
count|1...2...3...4...
snare|RLRLR...........
bassd|........RLRLR...etc

6 strokes
count|1...2...3...4...
snare|RLRLRL..........
bassd|........RLRLRL..etc

7 strokes
count|1...2...3...4...
snare|RLRLRLR.........
bassd|........RLRLRLR.etc

8 strokes
count|1...2...3...4...
snare|RLRLRLRL........
bassd|........RLRLRLRLetc

j

[Massik Kretal]

I don't understand the phases. Explain it please.

[Sticksman]

Congrats Nutha, welcome to the wonderful world of double bass. Have fun!

(now all you need is a jamblock mounted on a left-foot pedal! hehe)

[Thinshells]

NJ: your neighbor has to be one big PITA if they complain about felt IC beaters on a Roland mesh kick pad....

[finnhiggins]

NJ: your neighbor has to be one big PITA if they complain about felt IC beaters on a Roland mesh kick pad....

That's just London for you - everybody living right on top of each other. When I was studying there I was sharing a flat with eight other people.

[RickJames]

A cool book to check out is joe franco's double bass drumming. Good chops on double bass is nice, but being able to integrate double bass into grooves is even better.

[Thinshells]

That's just London for you - everybody living right on top of each other. When I was studying there I was sharing a flat with eight other people.

That is my nightmare. I want a place where I can wail on an acoustic kit without someone coming unglued at the seams.

I am looking at property in Ohio, Georgia, Texas and Arizona. I intend to have a house that will afford me the space and sound insulation to play at will.

If the only real estate opportunities reflect suburban housing in closer proximity, then I may be forced into a DDRUM 4se, or roland td-20K.

[Thinshells]

A cool book to check out is joe franco's double bass drumming. Good chops on double bass is nice, but being able to integrate double bass into grooves is even better.

I have that DVD- and despite the fact it is older, it is exceptional! I am glad I purchased it. I HIGHLY recommend it.

[finnhiggins]

That is my nightmare. I want a place where I can wail on an acoustic kit without someone coming unglued at the seams.

I am looking at property in Ohio, Georgia, Texas and Arizona. I intend to have a house that will afford me the space and sound insulation to play at will.

If the only real estate opportunities reflect suburban housing in closer proximity, then I may be forced into a DDRUM 4se, or roland td-20K.

I found a better solution - self employment, play during the day when everybody else is out at work! Then work during the evening if necessary.

During my two years in London I think I played my kit at home for all of thirty minutes, total. 90% of my practice was done on pads, with the other 10% in rented practice rooms around the city. It's enough of a problem there that you can just go rent a practice room with a quality drum kit and cymbals any time you like in a number of places. Not cheap, but equally I was earning pretty well for the 2nd year of my time there and didn't really mind..

[NUTHA JASON]

hahahaha. you guys all crack me up...

Massik Kretal
I don't understand the phases. Explain it please.
i'm working at phase one now. so i only play the tempos in that phase one after the other. when i can play the tempos easily and neat then i will move onto the next. these tempos are slow but i want a firm foundation for my d/bassing.
in ex one the Xs are just like ticks so for instance i start at 90b/min and do the 5 stoke for 30seconds and then 6stroke then 7 then 8 then i quickly dial up the metronome to 100, play 5 strokes etc etc until i get to 130 b/min. and that concludes phase one of ex one then i move to exercise 2 playing continuous 8ths on my bass at 100 then 110 etc etc down the cphase one colum unril i'm playing 200. after about 3 weeks if i am happy with my progress i will move to phase two, then a few weeks later to phase three etc. my aim is to be able to play one minute of continuous perfect 8th note single strokes at 250 b/min (or 125b/min 16ths). so a speed of 500 per minute.
hope this helps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinshells
NJ: your neighbor has to be one big PITA if they complain about felt IC beaters on a Roland mesh kick pad....

That's just London for you - everybody living right on top of each other. When I was studying there I was sharing a flat with eight other people.
well finn and thin my neighbours are quite cool. but the walls are very thin...very very thin. its so bad that at night i once heard them ching their wine glasses together. if you look at the picture i have put the bass spurs onto the fire place floor (stone) on top of a thick bit of carpet. plus there is a suit case full of old clothes in front of the fire place which itself has quite thick walling. but i practice at 7:45, 12:30 and 5:30 for half an hour at the least so i want to be as quiet as possible without actually playing softly.

[Wegadrummer]

Great nutha! :)
I think you will love to play double, remember.. also focus on putting double strokes into fills! thats one of mine favorite! when you get a hang of your left foot its creates a whole new world of drumming.. keep drumming..

[Sticksman]

Just out of voyeur-esque curiosity, Nutha, where do you buy the majority of your gear?

[NUTHA JASON]

three internet avenues i always check out before anywhere else:

ebay (first)
Adc drums of liverpool
http://www.adcdrums.co.uk/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=145&strPageHistory=cat
therockfactory
http://www.rockfactory.co.uk/products.php?cat=14&pg=2
also
ecymbals (which is loosely affiliated with adc)
http://www.ecymbals.co.uk/

if i am pro at anything its online shopping. i get a make number and google it to bits until i find the lowest price including packaging and posting. the main rule of thumb is patience...if you are buying new gear because you have to then you will probably spend more...but if you search for several weeks at your leisure you will hook a bargain.
j
ps: if you do buy anything from these guys, tell them i sent you please. hey, maybe i ge a discount next time. ta

[Massik Kretal]

Oh okay I got it. I'll work on this see what results I get.

[Butler]

I personally sit high up , play with heels up , and focus force on the top of the pedals . I find this to be the most comfortable way , but experimentation is key .

[Jo Evig]

I have some problems to. Only that my problem is that I got more power and control with my left leg. And when I play 16th notes of tempo 160 it`s very steady and nice but if I quit playing with my left leg mu right leg starts to mess up!!! Thats frikking enoying! BUT! Practice is the thing and way to go!
Is there someone in here that has or have the same problems, and if, did you just prctice your way out of it?

[tama drummerboy of doom]

Okay boys and girls. I have the ultimate way of double bassing. I can do 250 bpm, and i have practiced this technique for a total of about 2 months (daily practice).

First, RAISE you drum throne so that your thighs are parallel to the ground.
Like this:

_______
_____ |
\___/ | | <---------Your legs
| | | |
//||\\ | |
// || \\ |__\
^
|
|
throne
Second, raise it two inches above that point. Your feet should be up higher than normal, yet resting on the pedals comfortably.

Next, lower your beaters so they are closer to the drum head. The beaters should be about 4 inches away from the bass drum head. Tighten the springs. Don't worry, the style I
will show you will allow you to play just as loud if your pedals were at the standard position.

Now, the pedaling part. Push down by tapping your foot on the pedal in HEEL UP position. DO NOT lift your leg up, rather, just tap using your foot. Make sure your foot stays on the pedal. You should feel no strain on your thighs or hips. This will work out your calves, and thus allow you to conserve energy, and not become rigid when you go fast.

Fourth, start practicing slow 16th notes, and work your way up. It would be a good idea to use a metronome for this exercise.

[tama drummerboy of doom]

Exercises associated with my technique:
Try playyng at 150 bpm. Play this:
4 16th notes with your right, 4 with your left for two minutes.
like this: r r r r l l l l r r r r l l l l
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
Then try the same pattern only with 8 notes per foot, for again, two minutes.

Then, try 12 notes with each foot in the same pattern, for two minutes.

Then try 16 with each foot, for (you guessed it) two minutes.

Last, do singles for, two minutes:
r l r l r l r l r l r l r l r l
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a

If 150 is too fast for you, and youre worn out by the second excercise, try it at a slower pace. BE SURE THAN YOU COMPLETE THE EXERCISE WITHOUT STOPPING!!!!

Do this exercise for about a week. After one week, raise the speed by 5 or 10 beats per minute, and practice it the same, but faster. You should improve in about two months.

[tama drummerboy of doom]

oh yeah, my picture got messed up but, if you watch virgil donati, he has the closest example to what I do, although mine is slightly different.

[NUTHA JASON]

i'm doing something similar (see my exercise routines outlined above) but over a broad range of speeds. i started a month ago on double bass now and i can get just shy of 500 beats a minute before errors creep in. i think practicing a spread of speeds is important.

plus i also saw that jason bittner and others advise having quite low tension on the pedal springs, so i gave it a try and lo and behold it took less effort to play faster. this is because even at low tension a pedal will still return to its rest position faster than a human foot can be withdrawn.

j

[Jo Evig]

Exercises associated with my technique:
Try playyng at 150 bpm. Play this:
4 16th notes with your right, 4 with your left for two minutes.
like this: r r r r l l l l r r r r l l l l
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
Then try the same pattern only with 8 notes per foot, for again, two minutes.

Then, try 12 notes with each foot in the same pattern, for two minutes.

Then try 16 with each foot, for (you guessed it) two minutes.

Last, do singles for, two minutes:
r l r l r l r l r l r l r l r l
1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a

If 150 is too fast for you, and youre worn out by the second excercise, try it at a slower pace. BE SURE THAN YOU COMPLETE THE EXERCISE WITHOUT STOPPING!!!!

Do this exercise for about a week. After one week, raise the speed by 5 or 10 beats per minute, and practice it the same, but faster. You should improve in about two months.


Thats a VERY EFFICIANT exercis!!!!! Thats the Derek Roddy exercice, I have don it and it works like a dream!!!!!!!!!!!!! I recomend everyone to do this even if you play fast!!!

[sideshowant]

i have a question on technique. the technique i use i've never seen anyone else do before. i'm self tought so i'm sure it's probably incorrect. i play with my heels up, but when it comes down to double bass i use my entire leg. i kind of lock my ankles so that my heels are down and just run. i sit kind of high. not as high as mike portnoy but close. i've been playing like this for about 8 years and i haven't had any problems. i think i should be playing faster but thats a personal prefrence. has anyone ever seen someone play like this? does anyone know the pros and cons of this style of play? after playing for long periods of time my knees tend to hurt when i stand up from behind the kit. not sure if thats normal. thanks!

[DWSss]

I will throw my 2 cents in...

When I first attempted/started double bass drumming.. There was no such thing as a double pedal that I knew of, If there was I couldn't afford it at the time. The only way you could play double bass was to have another bass drum. It was hard for me because I had a clear FIBES kit and it took awhile to find another but I eventually did.

If I were just starting out now I would buy another bass drum to learn double bass. When I deleted a bass drum from my setup and got a dbl pedal.. I was like "Uhh" ... The feel - the sound and the look of 2 bass drums was my foundation. But the 2 bass drums went out in the 80's pretty much so I'm dialed in with the dbl. pedal. I would recomend checking out a 2 bass drum kit it's pretty cool.

Your left leg will fall off but this is what I did. Quads. Snare RL Bass Drum RL For hours and hours. You can do the quads all over the set mixing it up. Then I started playing what I could on my right foot on my left. Oh the burn. There was eruption for guitar players back when and then there was Tommy Lee with Livewire. Back in the 80's when I was learning dbl bass I would go to concerts to listen and watch. So I did lots of practice on my own and going to shows to pick up anything I could.

A good video that has helped me still to this day is the Tommy Aldridge DBL. bass drumming video, Get it if you can. I wouldn't be looking at all these killer double bass phenoms like Lord marco or Portnoy and get discouraged. Just start off slow and get comfortable and the speed comes in time.

Good Luck and let it burn!

DWSss

[PdoubleE]

I have been playing for about 6 years...and just recently started playing again after a 1 1/2 break. I am sooo pissed off at myself its not even funny!! I used to be able to play 16th notes at about 170-180 on double kick pedal perfectly.... and i cant even keep it together at 120 now. So yeah... you need to keep your legs up to par...keep you muscles trained or you will loose your skill after a while. i took my old pearl double pedal and riped it apart so now its one. I went out and got two remo pads and mounted t hem to some wood so i can sit at home and play double kicks all the time. I see faster improvment thaen when i first started because i already know the technique.... i just need to train my legs all over again. It is a Real Pain in the ass.

[riddim]

I have found it helps to make the weak foot the primary foot, at least in the practice room.

Some things I work with are playing Good Times Bad Times or Space Boogie with one pedal. I may not always get them up to speed with the weaker foot, but practicing them aids in their development.

It also helps to use a metronome and log your practice. Being systematic helps.

[avengedxdrummer]

SOMEONE HAVE ANY ADVICE 4 me with the double pedal , im so scared well nervous that i wont get the hang of it, ANY ADVICE????..my left foot sucks compared to my right cuz i have been playing set with single bass for 7 years, so my lrft foot is like WHATS GOING ON!

[avengedxdrummer]

SOMEONE HAVE ANY ADVICE 4 me with the double pedal , im so scared well nervous that i wont get the hang of it, ANY ADVICE????..my left foot sucks compared to my right cuz i have been playing set with single bass for 7 years, so my lrft foot is like WHATS GOING ON![/

[sideshowant]

start real slow, and know that your feet won't be flying anytime soon so be patient. a metronome helps alot with control just like with your hands. just take it easy and expeirament with spring tensions, pedal board height and even the distance the beater is from the head. sometimes seat height is a factor too. even though your left foot sucks right now you can still distinguish compfort. so get compfortable first. good luck!

[THE_ICEMAN]

I STARTED PLAYING WHEN I WAS 12 I AM NOW 20 GOING ON 21...NOW I HAVE WANTED TO EXPAND MY SKILL AND TRY OUT THE DOUBLE PEDAL.......I AM GETTING BETTER......I HAVE HAD IT FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS AND I HAVE BEEN PLAYING IN A BAND NOW FOR ABOUT 4 MONTHS......DURING PRACTICE I WILL JUST THROW IN SOMTHING AND THEN, IT ALL JUST COMES TO ME.. IT KIND OF JUST POPS INTO YOUR HEAD LIKE HEY STUPID DO THIS.....BUT THAT IS HOW I LEARNED HOW TO PLAY THE DOUBLE BASS AND AM STILL LEARNING............


..............OH YAH AND IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD NAME FOR A BAND I AM OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS..............

[mediocrefunkybeat]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/mediocrefunkybeat/keyboard4.jpg

[NUTHA JASON]

.....OH YAH AND IF ANYONE HAS A GOOD NAME FOR A BAND I AM OPEN FOR SUGGESTIONS..............

how about calling your band: CAPS LOCK!?

J

[mr_hayward_99]

i know thomas land discusess mulitiple foot pedal technique in his video,

and on the megadeath drummer video (on this site, cant remember his name) does double bass and hihat at the same time.

how do you guy use left foot pedal and hihat. i have been trying using my toe on the hihat and my heel on the double pedal.

can u get special clutches for this problem

[NUTHA JASON]

there are several elegant solutions:
http://namm.harmony-central.com/SNAMM04/Content/Tama/PR/HH905XP_2-lg.jpg
or

http://www.axemusic.com/Pictures/dw_sm505.jpg
or auxillaries like my new one...
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/rrrr.jpg (http://photobucket.com/albums/y290/nuthajason/?)

j

[Caskin]

A few years ago i bought a double bass pedal and used it for about a month. Then i broke my leg, my primary leg. After i got off all the pain killers i started playing with my weak leg as primary for 3 months until i got my cast off. Well i was amazed how much easier it was to play than before, almost like the second pedal was just natural and i didnt have to think about it, i just played.

[mr_hayward_99]

nutha

is your mini hi hats on a cable, or just a clutch(locked in)

that tama thing looks pretty complex

[riddim]

how do you guy use left foot pedal and hihat. i have been trying using my toe on the hihat and my heel on the double pedal.

You can split your foot up however you want to. It's a function of your imagination and your determination to thoroughly explore your ideas.

In the late 1980s, I saw a guy named Richard Hormachea in San Antonio do what you described . He was able to maintain straight 8ths with his toes on the hats, and do the offbeats with his heel on a Zalmer double pedal. Likewise, he would close the hats with his toes, play sticks on the hats, and do complicated drum machine patterns on the double pedal, without screwing up the groove. A very, very, bad man.

The Zalmer was nowhere near as responsive as the Axis and DW 900 pedals we have today.

I took it a little further, learning how to bark the hats over 16th note double pedal roll. But that's one of those things, like a one handed roll, that's nice to have down, but it's not a large part of what the music asks me to do.

[marlos]

Hi Everybody! THis is the best educational drum site in the world. My contribution , a few videos showing soloing over odd time multipedal ostinatos , plus an explanation of the double stroke roll with the bass drum. Hope you enjoy these ... http://www.edrums.gr/video2.html
Panos-Greece

[jmw229]

first off, this is not a question regarding speed, so dont ignore it. we all know speed comes with time and practice, no way around it. If your dedicated and committed to it, and put all u got forth, then u will eventually get faster.
THIS QUESTION is regarding control with the double pedal. I'm hoping to play more intricate patterns with my feet. Not constant 16ths or 32nds at 180bpm i get bored. ive been playing double pedal for about 8 weeks now and what i would like to know is what is the best way to acheive a higher level of variety? Syncopation is one of them. Rudiments is another. Is there any beats or exercises that you guys have found very useful in breaking that plateau? And if anyone could recommend a band and/or songs that would help me improve my control please post it.

thanks guys, take care

jay

[Derek Matthews]

stick control by stone... do all the excercises with your feet. chis adler does this .. here is a heel toe technique from him
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/ChrisAdlerbass.html

[jmw229]

CHRIS ADLER IS MY FAVOURITE DRUMMER IN THE WORLD! hes such an inspirational person, great role model. Hes got a great attitude to drumming. I have MDFest 05 and lamb of god dvds.. listen to what he says!

thanks dude, PERFECT ANSWER! :)

[Reflux own your mum]

A drummer who i think uses some very interesting double-bass patterns is Dan Foord from the band Sikth. He is a really ace drummer. Its pretty crazy music, and pretty ridiculous vocals, but i like it, and the drumming is exactly what you are looking for.
go on http://www.myspace.com/sikth and listen to "skies of millenium night"

[jmw229]

ok will do thanks guys. great answers :)

[Johnny_Stacks]

The ankle twitching is usally only for speed. and most of the time you cant controll the bass very good.
When your twitching your useing the bounce off the bass drum and its better not to use the bass and actuly use your foot to get all the bass shots in. but yes ankle twitching is great for very fast speed!!

- John

[jeffwj]

With my students, I try to relate the feet to the hands. Have you ever only played or practiced with your weak hand? Probably not! We all do exercises that isolate the weaker limb, but in real life, we need to have our limbs in sync with each other. I guess what I'm saying is - try isolating the weaker foot, but don't get too extreme! Here is an exercise to work on:

Take out your Realistic Rock, Drumset Musician, or whatever book you learned rock patterns from and play through it with your weak foot. Try the patterns both heel down and heel up. Heel down uses ankle - similar to using wrists only. Heel up should use ankle and leg - similar to using wrist and forarm for more power.

Hope this helps.
Jeff

[Exident]

hi
as i watched the mike portnoy drum theater video it was lookin like mike portnoy has a special foot-moving for his speed. like one stepp in front of the pedal and on at the back. is that possible? looked like chris adler. are there some other techniques of foot-moving for getting speed?

[kzdruma]

I started all over on the fundimentals on feet this time (rudiments).I found that it helps to experiment with different postures then STICK WITH THAT ONE!

[jmw229]

theres no shortcut to speed.. its all practice and dedication.. make sure u always play witha metronome and master it at slow tempos b4 moving to the next one.. mainly practice 16th notes, triplets, rudiments..chris adlers technique is the way i do my doubles with a single pedal, its similar to the heel toe technique.. keep in mind he also has a long axis pedals so it makes it easier.. experiment for a few weeks. one week try heels down every day for 30 mins.. the next week heels up.. the week after try combining the 2, the next week maybe even try doing heel-toe doubles.. i do an exercise everywhere i go with my feet which i learned when i played on the congas.. ive found has helped me develop my foot dexterity for heel toe the way chris does his
its hard to explain so ill give it my best shot, its more for single pedal double strokes:
LH- left heel
LT- Left Toe
RH- Right heel
RT- Right Toe

LH-RH-RT-LT- LH-RH-RT-LT etc.. try it with ur hands first its easier.. theyre straight sixteenth notes. then switching it to the other hand
RH-LH-LT-RT-RH-LH-LT-RT
ive built up alot of dexterity into my feet like that.. its hard on the pedals but it takes time. its a paradiddle variation. but u can do many things like that

u can obviously just practice single stroke rolls like Jojo mayer shows but with both feet. or make up ur own exercises similar

anyways keep at it..
jay

[jmw229]

oh ya and, what ive found is more fun then a metronome, is to find a few songs with one tempo. for example i have about 6 songs i use for practice at different tempos , starting wtiha a warmup song at 60bpm (sixteenth notes). then move on to, 80bpm, then 100bpm, 120 bpm, then 140bpm, and then blasting thru a song at 150 or 160 or so

it just makes it more fun and is a hell of a workout.. i improved my double bass speed in about a week of doing this.. every night.. i was at 150 at 16th notes.. now im at 175bpm 16thnotes for about like 3 minutes.. but make sure to practice slow to fast.

[Exident]

you mean that i could get with par exemple a dw 4002 doublepedal the same speed hoe jason bittner if i always practice?

[Perky]

I started out playing sixteenths at 100 and now I'm up to 160 playing doubles but sloppy

[georgebird]

develop the twitching, train the muscles to give yourself power and controll

[Stert]

The ankle twitching is usally only for speed. and most of the time you cant controll the bass very good.
When your twitching your useing the bounce off the bass drum and its better not to use the bass and actuly use your foot to get all the bass shots in. but yes ankle twitching is great for very fast speed!!

- John

you SHOULD be using the natural motion of the pedal/rebound of the drum. that is how the big time players (gadd, weckl, colaiuta, jojo) play so fast and effortlessly. double bass or not.

[kzdruma]

best way is to pretendto start over just on your feet this time. Run all the rudiments!

[DustinD]

what i found that helped was a tip in the modern drummer magazine. One drummer interviewed said that he tightened his pedal as much as possible to make it hard to play. i tried this with a metronome, and it helped a lot

[mr_hayward_99]

when i play single kick and i am not using it i keep my foot on the pedal so the beater is resting against the bass drum skin

when i play on the double kick eg rrrr llll should i lift the left beater of the drum skin when hitting with the right and vice versa. i know if you hit with one beater and the other is touching it it muffles the sound. is this the only bad point.

should i or not be doing this. it feel really weird trying not to have the beater touching the bass drum skin. i play heel up most of the time so this is one of the reasons why the beater is agianst the drum skin

any coment much apreciated

[PocketBoy82]

This technique makes a great chop trust me I know. When you learn to alternate your hands and the bass to make it sound like 16th notes man is like a single stroke roll but all over the drum.

[Derek Matthews]

you're building strength in your tendons and muscles

[PocketBoy82]

I have a problem that I just discovered the other day. On my pearl foot pedal I can use the heel toe technique and rock my foot to get doubles off. But when I went to a shed and played on my freinds set I could not do it it just would not work. He had a tama pedal. Can someone explain how to double kick regularly rather than using the heel toe technique.

[fourstringdrums]

so is that a good thing or am i not relaxed?

thanks.

It could be both. You're always going to ache if you're not relaxed enough, but you're also going to get pain whenever you strengthen your muscles.

The important thing is just make sure that you don't push yourself too much. Stretching before and after will help as well.

[Slayer_metal_head]

so is that a good thing or am i not relaxed?

thanks.

Its a good thing and relaxing is also important but if you are not like an insane pro itll hurt

[PocketBoy82]

it means that you are burning muscle and your legs are getting strong. You get that same sensation when doing sqauts. Don't worry becuase the more the burn the stronger your legs get just don't burn yourself out.

[NaturalRaz]

That used to happen to me alot! Then...I experimented with the height of my throne. Come to find out...I wasn't sitting properly and it was putting undue stress on my calves and thighs.

When you sit on your throne...you want your thighs to be parallel to the ground. That helps to relieve the stress thats built up on your legs...and helps to transfer your center of gravity to your waist area which takes pressure off of your legs.

Also....you probably already do this.....but, play heel-up method on the pedals.

[Slayer_metal_head]

Also when im doing sit ups and crunches (with legs up) i know if after 20 sit ups i know i have to do some if my stomach isnt burning i need to do mare same with crunches and your double bass pedal and mine~!

[fourstringdrums]

That used to happen to me alot! Then...I experimented with the height of my throne. Come to find out...I wasn't sitting properly and it was putting undue stress on my calves and thighs.

When you sit on your throne...you want your thighs to be parallel to the ground. That helps to relieve the stress thats built up on your legs...and helps to transfer your center of gravity to your waist area which takes pressure off of your legs.

Also....you probably already do this.....but, play heel-up method on the pedals.

I should add too that if you're NOT going to sit with your legs 100% paralell, it's better to sit higher than lower. I actually sit alittle higher than completely paralell. The reason for this is that when you sit lower you have to work harder to lift your legs and put more stress on them when your thigs are already at an upward slant. It's not very good for your back either IMO.

[NaturalRaz]

Haha...I was gonna put that in my post too...but I figured it would be common sense. But, your right...and some people might not know that.

[Slayer_metal_head]

Lars ulrich sits lower than parallel its not that good i sit a little bit higher then paralled and i sit pretty far away from the bass drum sometimes ill scoot closer.

[fourstringdrums]

Haha...I was gonna put that in my post too...but I figured it would be common sense. But, your right...and some people might not know that.

I would sit with my legs paralell but I'm short and everything gets hard to reach if I don't sit alittle higher :)

[Slayer_metal_head]

Fourstring you dint seem that short in your video.... you seemed about 5 foot6 or so. i am 5 foot 6.

[fourstringdrums]

Fourstring you dint seem that short in your video.... you seemed about 5 foot6 or so. i am 5 foot 6.

I'm only like 5' 3 1/2" , 5' 4" tops

[Stert]

i would keep at both methods....the more you know, the better off you are.

[Slayer_metal_head]

I ankle twitch when im doing blast beats that involve a ripping double bass (only a fast consistent one) ones that need controlled extremely fast short burst i use heel up.

[Captain_Howdy]

Im having some trouble with the "slide" technique, with my right foot. Ive been practicing it all night, and not only am I having trouble finding places in fills for it, but its really inconsistent. Ive tried different techniques, for instance, the drummer in my band. when HE does it, he sorta slides his right foot sideways sort of, and ive seen other people just slide straight ahead. But I cant really slide straight ahead, cuz I have a DW 7000 double pedal and I keep hitting my chain from time to time. I know this seems like a dumb question, but if anyone has any tips for me for practicing this technique and the proper way to do it, Id really appreciate it.

[Slayer_metal_head]

Well i dont know about your slide but what i do for flasm (LMAO flasm i meant flam) is i put my right foot closer to the chain and my left foot at the back of hte pedal (where the chain isnt) and i puch down at the same time since my right foot is at the chain it goes down faster then my left.

[Captain_Howdy]

Well i dont know about your slide but what i do for flasm is i put my right foot closer to the chain and my left foot at the back of hte pedal (where the chain isnt) and i puch down at the same time since my right foot is at the chain it goes down faster then my left.


Maybe I misused the term flam. Im trying to get that whole fast RRL technique down, where you come down once with your right foot and then slide up to get the 2nd hit and then come down with your left for the third. Ive seen it done so many different ways, and have tried them all, and since im just starting drums, I dont want to develop any bad habits early on.

[PocketBoy82]

I suggest the regular way becuase you have some drummers who play with high tension pedals and the resistance is so high you can't twitch. But still continue to practice both ways.

[RamboKnife]

I honestly had no idea where to put this, but this is amazing double bass work, so check it:

http://www.youtube.com/w/Derek-Roddy-Drum-Solo?v=hQbeMlTChvs&search=drum

[fourstringdrums]

I can't explain the physical reasons behind it, but it's because your leg may not be as strong or have as much endurance as the other, so you're using other muscles in your body to sort of help it along. What you should do is practice working on that foot seperately until it's equal with the right foot.

[RamboKnife]

Does anyone else here like to have their pedals pretty loose? Like it doesn't take much to push them down? I found that with trying out all the tensions, that the loose is best for me. I hate hate hate when you actually have to use some effort to push down on it. Maybe it's just me, but I move faster when it feels like I'm not pushing on anything.

[bdub]

I keep the spring on my pedals as loose as possible. Tight tension just doesn't work for me. Bozzio and Mangini both play with very loose spring tension.

[LumberjackIvan]

I've been playing double bass for around two years now and I've gotten really fast. I mean as fast as my hands. All I did was play everything I play with my hands to build speed with my feet. I play rudiments and marching exercises with my feet. I also recomend playing with metal albums. That'll build your chops up pretty quickly. I played with a lot of Lamb of God. Chris Adler makes some pretty complicated parts and it gets pretty intricate with hands too. Also, make sure you play 'heel up' style and raise your stool enough to release the tension in your legs. Make sure your legs are not abouv your waist line if they're resting on your pedals. That'll give you some speed pretty quickly. All in all, approach your feet as you'd approach your hands.

[Isaacs]

Hi.

Something I was taught a few years back by a guy who I really respected as a solid drummer was the following: When you first get a dbl kick (and for the sake of this reply I'll assume we are dealing with a right handed player) practice single kick patterns with your left foot. So, if you like to play along with something pretty easy (at first) do all the work that you would normally reserve your right foot with your left. It sounds stupid, I know, but what it does is help you to have a left foot capable of doing more than just mirroring 16th notes or hi-hat work. Your foot has to be taught, just like the other one and by playing single bass parts with your new foot on double kick, you'll help build more than just a little dexterity. If you are right handed, you'll have to find a setting for your hi-hat that you can deal with (as you won't be able to use your right foot to cross over the left to control it) but it is not as easy as it sounds if you've never done it. I also believe firmly that playing slowly is every bit as hard as playing really fast. I am in no way knocking speed, but if you take a really fast fill and slow it way down, you'll find that your set becomes a very good truth detector in that any mistakes you make will be easily observed.

I hope this helps. There are some other great suggestions here but I thought I would give me 02.

Keep Stickin

Best,
Isaacs

[LumberjackIvan]

Hi.

Something I was taught a few years back by a guy who I really respected as a solid drummer was the following: When you first get a dbl kick (and for the sake of this reply I'll assume we are dealing with a right handed player) practice single kick patterns with your left foot. So, if you like to play along with something pretty easy (at first) do all the work that you would normally reserve your right foot with your left. It sounds stupid, I know, but what it does is help you to have a left foot capable of doing more than just mirroring 16th notes or hi-hat work. Your foot has to be taught, just like the other one and by playing single bass parts with your new foot on double kick, you'll help build more than just a little dexterity. If you are right handed, you'll have to find a setting for your hi-hat that you can deal with (as you won't be able to use your right foot to cross over the left to control it) but it is not as easy as it sounds if you've never done it. I also believe firmly that playing slowly is every bit as hard as playing really fast. I am in no way knocking speed, but if you take a really fast fill and slow it way down, you'll find that your set becomes a very good truth detector in that any mistakes you make will be easily observed.

I hope this helps. There are some other great suggestions here but I thought I would give me 02.

Keep Stickin

Best,
Isaacs


I completely agree. I have done this before and it helps immensely. Good one Isaacs.

[RamboKnife]

For those people who think that it takes years and years to have good bass pedal technique check out this 16 year old kid who hasn't been playing for that long:


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2871380610117153676&q=kelly+b

[Loonster]

hi, i know uve had a lot of posts about this BUT i have a different kind of problem

i have 2 bass drums yeh? im trying to double pedal but my right leg stops responding whenever i go to play the hats.snare.ride whatever, i broke it last year and didnt have psyhio..

im trying to get back on track, im relaxing, im going speeds i can work with but things just get out of hand.. worst thing is is that this grindcore band want me and i dont think im upto it. playing heel down hurts like hell for me and i cant manage to keep lifting my legs up and down fast on the pedals because is hurts my right leg so much. ive been advised from other drummers to play heel up, which i do and that calf muscles push my foot up and down and i dont understand, tips and advice would be great, thanks.

ive tried ankletwitching but this causes me pain , for some reason, feedback is MOST appreciated, i do NOT want an injury to take my drumming career

Loonster

[LumberjackIvan]

If your leg hurts that much then despite how much you wanna be in that band I'd say wait until it doesn't hurt to play. If its just regular pain from being tired then you just need practice. Also, heel up is best. Just watch Chris Adler, great metal drummer, he doesn't ankle twitch.

[FloEy]

ok i am trying to make sense of all the people who say they have really loose tension on their double pedals. If its too loose your foot is going to drop to the floor. I dont see how that can make you faster. Your actually putting in a lot more work on some of the easiest things to do. It may be a good way to practice on but i disagree with this idea when it comes to playing.

[erock]

anyone else have this problem??????

i can sit at my desk at work all day and tap doublebass with my heels. but when i get home and try it on the set, my timing is totally off and i can't play consistently.

it's sorta because when you play on the pedals, they are controlled by the balls of your feet and not heels.

i almost wish there were a double pedal that was triggered by your heels instead of the balls of your feet.

did i just invent something??? :)

[averypoordrummer]

anyone else have this problem??????

i can sit at my desk at work all day and tap doublebass with my heels. but when i get home and try it on the set, my timing is totally off and i can't play consistently.

it's sorta because when you play on the pedals, they are controlled by the balls of your feet and not heels.

i almost wish there were a double pedal that was triggered by your heels instead of the balls of your feet.

did i just invent something??? :)

i was thinking about that too, it would be cool to see if it actually worked

[erock]

yeah, you know what i mean?!?!

it's like there's not enough resistance on the pedals or something. it's not similar to tapping your heels all day. it's very different. i've been through many double bass pedals, so i know it's not that. i currently own a DW 9002. but i just sold my axis a2, and i had a pearl powershifter eliminator, as well as an old DW 5000 series. but still, none of them can help me match my accuracy on just sitting in a chair and tapping my heels on the floor.

strange.

any advice?

i've tried tightening my spring tension, as well as a host of other fluctuations including varying the distance of the beater from the head, moving the position of my feet on the pedal, etc etc.

[playplayplay]

some exercises i do every day is this (without any pedals just sitting on a chair with my stix)
right hand and right foot alternating singles: right hand, right foot ......and then do the same thing with my left foot and hand...and all HEEL DOWN...that helped me alot try it!!
Heel down for sure! Ive been practicing for 2 or 4 hrs every day no joke. 2 hrs for lunch and an hour or so after 8pm. This double bass stuff is awsome. I did wonder about this heel up or down thing. A matter of whats works for you I guess, but you know lifting your whole leg exerts alot more energy, thus heel down should be the way to play if you are trying to conserve energy. Atleast this works for me.

[mr. inards]

Play all the rudiments with your feet as you would play with your hands. It works!

This guys right , even the most simple r l r r l r l l r l type of thing will have you flying right through you 32nd note rolls within weeks. also try playing some of your fav grooves with only your left foot, that has helped my left foot from being weaker and slower than my right.

Dont just listen to me though Im still learning and am 100% self taught. So do scroll through and take the tips from these trained drummers.

[mr. inards]

Heel down for sure! Ive been practicing for 2 or 4 hrs every day no joke. 2 hrs for lunch and an hour or so after 8pm. This double bass stuff is awsome. I did wonder about this heel up or down thing. A matter of whats works for you I guess, but you know lifting your whole leg exerts alot more energy, thus heel down should be the way to play if you are trying to conserve energy. Atleast this works for me.

What works for me is actually the oppisite, I play heel up most of the time when playing blast beats and other stuff with constantly rolling bass drums.

I also have a 9002 and I keep my foot right against the toe stop with my heel up and just kind of flik my ankles. Its probobly not the best way egronomically but it sure works for me, no amount of hybrid picking from either of my guitarists can keep up with my bass drum rolls at top speed!

[erock]

thanks mr. inards. that's good advice. i dont even have the toe stop installed on my pedal. maybe i'll give it a shot.

[tambian89]

This is TamaDrummerBoyofDoom. I forgot my password, so I'm going to use Tamsabian from now on.

Double bassing is only as usefull as you make it. I am at 260bpm right now. In common time, I can play 16th notes with each individual foot. I other words with just my right foot i can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a), and with just my left foot I can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a). Combine them and you get 32nd notes in common time (260bpm).

How? Well there are three factors. First is your style of pedaling, second is the setup of the pedal, and third is the setup of the throne. I use a Tama Iron Cobra Junior (not the Iron cobra regular, mine has different beaters and reads TAMA on the pedals. Costs less too...haha) If you get a pedal, get one that will not burn a hole in you wallet, but will also allow for adjustabilty of the position of the beaters.

Setup of the throne: First, raise your throne so that your thighs are parallel to the pedals. Then raise it an additional 2 inches. Your legs should be pointing downward, but not hanging. Then place a piece of 1/4 of an inch of ply wood underneath the back legs of the throne so you back with be tucked in. This prevents you from leaning back, and tiring out you lower back.

Setup of the pedal: Now the pedal modifications. Lower the beaters towards the bass drum head so that the beaters are about 4 inches from the bass drum head. This will not reduce the volume when you pedal the bass drum.

How to pedal: Now that you legs are on the throne resting, pedal using only your foot. Simply tap your foot on the pedal. You'll notice that you use only your calf, rather than your whole leg. You never want to generate your power from your hips, lower back, or thighs, because they will all get sore and tire easily. Remember to make full strokes, returning back to the pedal's original position before making another stroke, and always keep your foot on the pedal. Note that you can only get above 240 bpm by this method.

[tambian89]

Now how to exercise using this technique.

Basically, to get your speed up, practice with a metronome and a watch. Start at a managable speed, like 50 bpm, and play 16th notes.(1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a)

First exercise:
RRRRLLLLRRRRLLLL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Second exercise:
RRRRRRRRLLLLLLLL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Third Exercise:
RRRR RRRR RRRR RRRR
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
LLLL LLLL LLLL LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

So there is no confusion, it should be 16 rights, then 16 lefts, 16 rights, then 16 lefts, etc. Repeat for 6 minutes, then rest for four counts.

Fourth Exercise:
RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a


Practice these exercises every day, and every week up the bpm by ten.
For example:
Week 1: 50 bpm
Week 2: 60 bpm
Week 3: 70 bpm
Week 4: 80 bpm
Week 5: 90 bpm
Week 6: 100 bpm
Week 7: 110 bpm
Week 8: 120 bpm

Now, it may take two weeks for you to notice an actual change in the speed, since 50 bpm and 60 bpm may feel the same, but 50 bpm and 70 bpm may feel completely different. The most important thing to keep in mind is to complete the exercise; you have to be able to get throught the entire exercise without stopping. I did this exact regiment for almost three months, and now I can go at 260 bpm, working my way up to 300 bpm. I can hold a 260 bpm (RLRL) pattern for about 10 minutes. You may need to get a metronome that will get up to the right speed, so if you don't have one, get one that goes past 208 bpm.

The last piece of advice l can give is to try the rudiments. I learned all 26 with my feet and got amazing control from learning them. I did not practice them above 100 bpm, since I cannot play doubles with only one foot. The rudiments (for me) were more of a nexercise on how to control my pedals, and not feel so tense and ready to just play as fast as I possibly can.

For more information about how to pedal properly, visit ballisticdrums.com.

For more information about the exercises, go to derekroddy.com, and look up the exercises by clicking on the DEREK link (at the top in red) and then on exercises. It should then display a link that says "30 minute exercise", which you click on.

[erock]

whoa. thanks tambian. awesome advice. i'll try it and let you know if i have any questions.

uh, but one question. what about the spring tension of the pedals?