DOUBLE BASS TECHNIQUE

[tambian89]

Now how to exercise using this technique.

Basically, to get your speed up, practice with a metronome and a watch. Start at a managable speed, like 50 bpm, and play 16th notes.(1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a)

First exercise:
RRRRLLLLRRRRLLLL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Second exercise:
RRRRRRRRLLLLLLLL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Third Exercise:
RRRR RRRR RRRR RRRR
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
LLLL LLLL LLLL LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

So there is no confusion, it should be 16 rights, then 16 lefts, 16 rights, then 16 lefts, etc. Repeat for 6 minutes, then rest for four counts.

Fourth Exercise:
RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL, for 6 minutes, then four count rest
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a


Practice these exercises every day, and every week up the bpm by ten.
For example:
Week 1: 50 bpm
Week 2: 60 bpm
Week 3: 70 bpm
Week 4: 80 bpm
Week 5: 90 bpm
Week 6: 100 bpm
Week 7: 110 bpm
Week 8: 120 bpm

Now, it may take two weeks for you to notice an actual change in the speed, since 50 bpm and 60 bpm may feel the same, but 50 bpm and 70 bpm may feel completely different. The most important thing to keep in mind is to complete the exercise; you have to be able to get throught the entire exercise without stopping. I did this exact regiment for almost three months, and now I can go at 260 bpm, working my way up to 300 bpm. I can hold a 260 bpm (RLRL) pattern for about 10 minutes. You may need to get a metronome that will get up to the right speed, so if you don't have one, get one that goes past 208 bpm.

The last piece of advice l can give is to try the rudiments. I learned all 26 with my feet and got amazing control from learning them. I did not practice them above 100 bpm, since I cannot play doubles with only one foot. The rudiments (for me) were more of a nexercise on how to control my pedals, and not feel so tense and ready to just play as fast as I possibly can.

For more information about how to pedal properly, visit ballisticdrums.com.

For more information about the exercises, go to derekroddy.com, and look up the exercises by clicking on the DEREK link (at the top in red) and then on exercises. It should then display a link that says "30 minute exercise", which you click on.

[erock]

whoa. thanks tambian. awesome advice. i'll try it and let you know if i have any questions.

uh, but one question. what about the spring tension of the pedals?

[tambian89]

Dear Erock,
Spring tension is usually a matter of preference, but I'd say go as low as possible. I used to have them as tight as I could possibly get them, but I decided to loosen them all the way and found it incredibly confortable. Try loosening them almost all the way, and you should feel comfortable. Remember also to always oil your pedal and lugs to preserve the life of your drums and hardware. Hope I helped!
- Marc (tambian89's real name)

[tambian89]

Ok another thing I would like to mention is the idea of isolating muscle groups. When you play very fast with your hands, you use your fingers. You wouldn't be using your entire arm to play 32nd notes, would you? Well, the same concept applies to the bass drum. Why pedal with your whole leg when you want to go fast? There are two ways of isolating the muscles.

First: Pedal from just your knee down for slower rhythms, like slow 16th notes. For example, the pre-chorus of War Ensemble by Slayer, Dave Lombardo plays slow 16th notes. Rather than stomping down from your thigh, don't lock your ankle, and pedal by pushing down at the knee. (this would be the equivalent of using your wrists, since your wrists are the second fastest ways of executing beats) From the setup of the pedal and throne, that I mentioned before, you don't want to lift up you leg. Let your leg hang loose, and push down at the knee without lifting your leg. Think down and only down. The rebound stroke is a prime example. With rebound strokes, you push down and guide up, but you don't pull up. Your pedal comes back to rest position on it's own; all you have to do is push down.

Second: Pedal using only your ankles for fast rhythms, like fast 16th notes or (provided that you can) 32nd notes in common time (any time will do, but this is the most basic example) . If you have ever played heel down, simply play in the same motion, but with your heel up. In other words, lift your heel up and tap your foot onto the pedal with just your ankles to get a feel of the motion you need. When you actually pedal this way, keep your feet on the pedal at all times; lifting your foot off the pedal will slow you down!!!! This way, you conserve your energy, so you can hold a "roll" for an extremely long time. (this would be the equivalent of playing with your fingers in terms of speed)

Real life example: I have been drumming for two years, and double bassing for about 4 months. I can go 260 bpm, and can hold that steadily for almost 10 minutes. Practice as in the method mentioned in my previous posts, and you will be able to go above and beyond that speed. My current goal is to get up to 500 bpm. I really hope these posts help (.........they took a long time to type.......)

[tambian89]

SOMEONE PLEASE RESPOND !! Give me your opinion on the technique!!!!!

[Tim Waterson]

Ok another thing I would like to mention is the idea of isolating muscle groups. When you play very fast with your hands, you use your fingers. You wouldn't be using your entire arm to play 32nd notes, would you? Well, the same concept applies to the bass drum. Why pedal with your whole leg when you want to go fast? There are two ways of isolating the muscles.

First: Pedal from just your knee down for slower rhythms, like slow 16th notes. For example, the pre-chorus of War Ensemble by Slayer, Dave Lombardo plays slow 16th notes. Rather than stomping down from your thigh, don't lock your ankle, and pedal by pushing down at the knee. (this would be the equivalent of using your wrists, since your wrists are the second fastest ways of executing beats) From the setup of the pedal and throne, that I mentioned before, you don't want to lift up you leg. Let your leg hang loose, and push down at the knee without lifting your leg. Think down and only down. The rebound stroke is a prime example. With rebound strokes, you push down and guide up, but you don't pull up. Your pedal comes back to rest position on it's own; all you have to do is push down.

Second: Pedal using only your ankles for fast rhythms, like fast 16th notes or (provided that you can) 32nd notes in common time (any time will do, but this is the most basic example) . If you have ever played heel down, simply play in the same motion, but with your heel up. In other words, lift your heel up and tap your foot onto the pedal with just your ankles to get a feel of the motion you need. When you actually pedal this way, keep your feet on the pedal at all times; lifting your foot off the pedal will slow you down!!!! This way, you conserve your energy, so you can hold a "roll" for an extremely long time. (this would be the equivalent of playing with your fingers in terms of speed)

Real life example: I have been drumming for two years, and double bassing for about 4 months. I can go 260 bpm, and can hold that steadily for almost 10 minutes. Practice as in the method mentioned in my previous posts, and you will be able to go above and beyond that speed. My current goal is to get up to 500 bpm. I really hope these posts help (.........they took a long time to type.......)

In response
If you have been double bassing for 2 years and can go 260 16ths in singles you are WAY Ahead of the rest of us.
You are posting exercises which have been written about so yes you are on the right track.
THERE ARE MORE than 2 ways of isolating the muscles as well.
THere is NO right or wrong way to play past 240 whatever works.

There is a reason I have taken so long to get my NEW bassdrum techniques dvd done
it's because I am trying to find the best way to show close ups of ALL the techniques drummers have been enquiring about....
WAY too much to edit LOL


I dont know of anyone who can hold 260 in singles for 10 minutes straight I even spoke to George about that and he is THE DEATH speed master.

So far other Than George,Orifist,Tony and Myself no one else has posted a legitimate 260 bpm singles clip.

Listen to this clip to see where you are at this is ONLY 260bpm
http://www.youtube.com/?v=GaacZn1zgZ8

Time for you to own up with a VIDEO.LOL

500 would put you at 2000 not in this lifetime.LOL
This is not even 2000 and its doubles
scroll down to the audio clip
http://www.czaplamusic.com/DrumLessons.htm

People don't realize how fast 240 locked in is 220 sloppy might sound faster to the average ear.
Hope this helps the confusion
You are on the right track so keep it up and work with a metrenome
THE HUMAN EAR CAN"T decifer past 220 very easily.
God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[Drummer89]

Hey, I've been drumming for 6 yrs. now and I have a teacher and I've been learning jazz, funk, bossa nova and me being hispanic, I'm into 4 way coordination more than anything else so I like playing salsa, songo, samba and all other types of music but rock would be the style I like the most right now........me being in my 6th year, NOW! is when I have gotten the urge to practice my double bass more than ever, right now my double bass is pretty decent Ive studied it before and I own a book as well BUT I wanted to ask you guys if this is the right way to do it........listening to Avenged Sevenfold even Mike Portnoy and Jo Jo Mayer and Thomas Lang they have inspired me to play more double bass because of their speed!......right now I'm practicing my double bass with a metronome and I want to gradually get faster, is that the right way of doing it? and the heel toe technique what in the world is that, I still cant seem to figure it out, do u need a double action pedal such as the sonor pedal or even the dualist to do the technique? is it possible way to play at like 200 bpm without getting tired or using the technique?

[Tim Waterson]

Hey, I've been drumming for 6 yrs. now and I have a teacher and I've been learning jazz, funk, bossa nova and me being hispanic, I'm into 4 way coordination more than anything else so I like playing salsa, songo, samba and all other types of music but rock would be the style I like the most right now........me being in my 6th year, NOW! is when I have gotten the urge to practice my double bass more than ever, right now my double bass is pretty decent Ive studied it before and I own a book as well BUT I wanted to ask you guys if this is the right way to do it........listening to Avenged Sevenfold even Mike Portnoy and Jo Jo Mayer and Thomas Lang they have inspired me to play more double bass because of their speed!......right now I'm practicing my double bass with a metronome and I want to gradually get faster, is that the right way of doing it? and the heel toe technique what in the world is that, I still cant seem to figure it out, do u need a double action pedal such as the sonor pedal or even the dualist to do the technique? is it possible way to play at like 200 bpm without getting tired or using the technique?

Go to www.extremsportdrumming.com/wfdtv.htm and click on the FREE trailer from my dvd This will show you heel and toe as well as my controlled heel strokes for faster double bass.
hope this helps
Good luck and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[Drummer89]

the link above does not work

[jollymosher]

i normaly tilt my feet up to the ball of my foot and right foot first start bassicaly twicting my feet as fast as the song or what im playing requires it works well, but i want more speed how to i change?

[FloEy]

Go to www.extremsportdrumming.com/wfdtv.htm and click on the FREE trailer from my dvd This will show you heel and toe as well as my controlled heel strokes for faster double bass.
hope this helps
Good luck and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

Tim you are the man!! Thats got to feel amazingly good having Virgil Donati watch you in awe as you do that. Good luck keeping up that record and thanks for the tips.

[Drummer89]

I still do not know how to play the heel toe technique and the link Tim sent me in unavailable is there another video I can see?

[Tim Waterson]

I still do not know how to play the heel toe technique and the link Tim sent me in unavailable is there another video I can see?
Sorry TYPO LOL
http://www.extremesportdrumming.com/wfdtv.htm
this link works
Click on the trailer from my DVD
God Bless and Good Luck
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[tambian89]

Tim:
I can go about 10 minutes. If you look at my exercises, I said to practice 16th notes for 6 minutes. While I usually did the execises for 6 minutes each, when I reached 220, I started practicing for 8 minutes instead of 6 minutes(I was extremely paranoid about getting off beat ), and used the metronome on my keyboard (which goes up to 280). I'm sorry I didn't mention this, as there may have been confusion about how long I can actually double bass - I can go 260 bpm for 8 minutes. I can try for 10 minutes, but I struggle, even if I do succeed. I have gone as fast as I could for about 10 minutes, but my ankles get really tired after 9 minutes ( 60 seconds is a long time; 120 seconds is even longer) . I realise there is no need for anyone the double bass for 10 minutes straight, but it does impress my friends (haha). I'm sorry I didn't clear this up.
If anyone has any questions about the exercises, the technique, or the setup of the pedals and throne, email me at xmarkyboyx1@aol.com (sorry - I' ve had this screen name since I was like 12, and I'm now 16).
- Marc

[playplayplay]

I ve been giving the dbl bass some serious practice, 2hrs a day, I think the most important thing is to identify your current playing status, then think of an aproach, one that will actually help you, dont go for speed 1st thing. Remember to also work the muscles that you are using to do play dbl bass. Thats what I've done and it's working, really if you want to play dbl bass, you need to work the bad leg, always! Also play every day, dont miss a day, it sets you back. Practice the right way the first time and do it super slow and watch what the heck your doing with hands and feet, BREATH !!! you will get faster by not going faster at first. STRETCH !!! it will take some time to develop these muscles to be able to use your dble bass skills with your band but I have faith in all of you. As I always say, and always hear from the drumming greats. PLAY YOUR DRUMS ALOT. Stop sitting around thinking about what it will take to be a great drummer and PLAY,PLAY,PLAY !!!

[tambian89]

Playplayplay:
What do you think of the technique I proposed? I'm interested in getting responses from different people. Thanks.
- Marc

[tambian89]

I have tried the ballistic double bass dum system by Joe Stronsick...... I can go 260 bpm with ease after practiceing for 4 months with it......check out my post on the double bass technique thread for more information.


- Marc

[Jeff Almeyda]

His heel toe stuff is OK. The problem is that you get subjected to all of his hard sell nonsense for junk like "The 12 sweet spots on the hi hat pedal". Just get the other guys heel toe video and save alot of money.

[dasilvs]

But does the heel-toe video teach you DOUBLE PEDAL or SINGLE PEDAL technique? What's the best "bang for your buck"?

[andrew_carter]

asides from that he also recommends playing barefoot i wonder how that is as well It's easy enough to find out. I like barefoot drumming...it's one less thing in the way between you and your drums.

Andrew

[Tim Waterson]

Tim:
I can go about 10 minutes. If you look at my exercises, I said to practice 16th notes for 6 minutes. While I usually did the execises for 6 minutes each, when I reached 220, I started practicing for 8 minutes instead of 6 minutes(I was extremely paranoid about getting off beat ), and used the metronome on my keyboard (which goes up to 280). I'm sorry I didn't mention this, as there may have been confusion about how long I can actually double bass - I can go 260 bpm for 8 minutes. I can try for 10 minutes, but I struggle, even if I do succeed. I have gone as fast as I could for about 10 minutes, but my ankles get really tired after 9 minutes ( 60 seconds is a long time; 120 seconds is even longer) . I realise there is no need for anyone the double bass for 10 minutes straight, but it does impress my friends (haha). I'm sorry I didn't clear this up.
If anyone has any questions about the exercises, the technique, or the setup of the pedals and throne, email me at xmarkyboyx1@aol.com (sorry - I' ve had this screen name since I was like 12, and I'm now 16).
- Marc

MARC are you doing the heel toe doubles for 260?
I thought you were talkin singles.If so we ALL would love to see a video clip.

This is for ANYONE who wishes to achieve the goal in speed hands or feet its the same.

PLEASE DRUMMERS don't just the metrenome on 1/4 note pulse your ears can be decieved as I have stated MANY times.
For years we thought our favorite drummer was playing at least 1000 bpm when they went around the toms or kicked in the double bass but to tell you the truth.

Do some reasearch and play along with some of the benchmarks drummers have set for us.
Here is a excerpt from The derek Roddy site.
Thanks to Scratch for the reasearch.

I did a bit of my own research a while back and came to much the same result, by slowing down numerous songs at 240 and 250, I heard that most players I did this on got a LOT sloppier.
Yet it's not only a timing thing, but a weak foot thing? Thanks Tim. I ONLY practice double bass left leading, whatever technique I choose to use. I don't play like that, but I practice like that a hell of a lot. That exercise seems pretty tough, just locking into 8th notes with one foot at 200+ is hard enough. 250 is bloody hard and, despite the fact the nature of the human animal is to learn without regard to impossibility, I'm convinced that 270 is pretty much the human limit. I mean, all you need to do is look at this:

1986 - Reign In Blood - 210 - Probably the first album to go over 200.
1993 - Covenant - 235 - was anyone else playing as fast as Pete was back then?
1999 - Inexorable - 245 - Tony has been cruising at these speeds ever since.
2003 - King Of All Kings - 255 - Yes, some floating in parts (not on Monarch though)
2005 - Annihilation Of The Wicked - 265 - George believes that the limit is 270.

Things do curve off. Only 6-7 years to get 235, but another 12 to push things up to 265. Of course, I'm only using recorded examples as a benchmark, but of course music changes the mind of the drumming community, not world records.
It's taken 20 years for drummers to accept that these speeds are possible. We tend to believe there is no limit, and there isn't one really. I just think that people have optimised their double bass practice to the point where we are now getting the highest tempos we can possibly get, by focusing more for inhuman periods of time (8 hrs+ a day!), and using systematic exercise regimes.
For the people who devote every last second of long practice periods to double bass, I hear that 260 is the best they can do. Which is enough proof for me to say, 270 is the limit, nice round number. 280 probably is achievable but no one is going to lock themselves in a room for the years it would take them to get from 270 to 280, now would they?
In theory, we SHOULD be able to push it. But there's just simply only so much time in the day. If I can't hear it being done with control for a minute, it's good as impossible. Screw 280, I'd rather be a better musician with a life anyway





Virgil shocked everyone when he did Dogboots at 800 bpm.Now 800 is very fast but it has taken the MOST extreme death metal guys a LONG time to get to 1000 bpm

VIRGIL playing 800 bpm tight and consistant for around 5 minutes is another FEET in itself no pun intended.

You NEED to get the weak limb in time with a metrenome up to exactly 1/2 of what your goal is .
If you fall out of time with the metrenome then slow down the tempo as you are still floating at around the desired tempo but NO WHERE near the real tempo.

My GOAL is to help drummers achieve their goals and if you apply what I say you WILL hit your goals with patience practice and TIME!
Sorry for the long post but I hope this helps drummers achieve their goals.
remeber speed is just a means to an end.
God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[Sticktrick]

I am at 260bpm right now. In common time, I can play 16th notes with each individual foot. I other words with just my right foot i can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a), and with just my left foot I can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a). Combine them and you get 32nd notes in common time (260bpm).


If you are really playing at this tempo, this would mean that you are playing 1040 Strokes a minute. You said that you could hold this for 8 Minutes and you also said that you were A)only drumming for two years, B)heading towards 500 (lol, thats 2000 Beats) and C)only 16 years old.

Lets consider that the WR for one minute is around 1100 Beats, held by Tim (who probably worked for many years to achieve this goal).

This leads me to the following conclusions:

A) You are the reincarnation of Buddy Rich himself using a double pedal.

B) You have skipped math class

C) You think you are playing faster than you are, because you're either not listenig to what you play or because your playing so sloppy that you think your faster than you really are.

D) You are one more nerd on the internet posting BS

I hope that A is true because I would love to see such a talent. But honestly - I think it´s either B, C or D (which I hope is not the case).

Post a vid - I would love to see that!

[erichenryus]

Yeah, it's available for $19.95 on heeltoetechnique.com (http://www.heeltoetechnique.com). I think it's the video you are talking about. I put it together a few years ago, and Jared put it up there.


Excellent Video. I just purchased yesterday and it was well worth the 20 bucks for me. I never really knew what heel/toe meant but now it's like duh, that's why they call it heel/toe.

[The_Chaotic_One]

There's no quick solution to being able to kick really fast, all these fancy things to waste time and money on when all you need is to head down arse up and practice, to play single-stokes fast takes years to achieve the speeds a lot of deathmetallers are doin (250BPM+) just practice if you wanna get good stop worrying about all this other hype and 'get fast quick' crap!

[jose munoz]

a cool exercise to do is doing paradiddles with your feet and your hands too, but doing 8th notes with your feet and 16th with your hands... like this


hands RLRRLRLLRLRR.......
feet R L R R L R L L......

and then do the 8TH notes with your hands and the 16th with your feet

hands R L R R L R L L R L R R....
feet RLRRLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRR...

TRY THAT ONE!
by the way i think virgil is the best doble bass drummer !

[tambian89]

I think my math may be wrong, but I can play 16th note with each individual foot. When I went along with my metronome, I went at 260, and practiced this for almost a month. I'm in the third month of my double bassing (realise I started at 100 bpm) . I've been working on keeping my 260 bpm very clean, and I'm still having trouble. I do admit that I go for sound (I like my footwork to sound basically like a drum roll). I'll get avideo up A.S.A.P. There is no way I can do over 1000 in one minute.

Tim- I can do double strokes, but I never tried them in my practicing (sounded to sloppy and I got horribly off beat). Plus, when I play a double, if I want to do it with only one foot, i can pull it, but the doubles are separated far apart.

[tambian89]

Oh yeah, I'm gradually heading towards 500, I'm not even close right now. My ultimate goal is to reach 500, but that may be next to impossible for me.

[tambian89]

B) You have skipped math class

QUOTE]

I'll go with answer choice B), but I would love for it to be A). My notes are clean; I practice with the metronome every day. I don't use heel-toe, I use just my ankles (I'm one of those kids who thinks his foot is too big for the pedal, and doesn't know the actual technique).

[tambian89]

This is TamaDrummerBoyofDoom. I forgot my password, so I'm going to use Tamsabian from now on.

Double bassing is only as usefull as you make it. I am at 260bpm right now. In common time, I can play 16th notes with each individual foot. I other words with just my right foot i can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a), and with just my left foot I can play 16th notes (1e+a2e+a3e+a4e+a). Combine them and you get 32nd notes in common time (260bpm).



To everyone: I am playing 16th notes with both feet. So, I am playing 260 16th notes per minute. I play 8th notes with each individual foot (which does go fast anyway). I'm so sorry! I didn't even realize until you guys posted giving me these crazy numbers like 1100 bpm and stuff. I can go 260, but I mixed up 16th notes and 8th notes. I timed it yesterday and it is 260 bpm, 8th notes with each foot. I got the aid of the music teacher at my school to have me go with the metronome and only one foot ( the drum set is single bass and no double pedal) and I was keeping time perfectly, but in 8th notes! I was kinda eager to just get the exercise up and didn't really read over this first part.
Sorry!
- Marc

[lil will]

help from any one please??????? i have a big gig very soon an i have just been told about a solo...... ok i say then they play it to me! a massive double bass solo. i have the pedal but i cant get it at all. i need quick tips!!!!!!!!!! help!#

[someonelse]

when u get used to playing beats with ur left foot? By the way i am a right footed drummer. Does anyone else have any other tips or tricks to play double bass?

[someonelse]

to what dvd or series of dvds do u think would help me increase my double bass drum skills?

[franklinj]

Bro...you gotta search the forum before putting up posts like these.

Dont be lazy man.

[aahznightsky]

I think Joe Morello's dvds would really help you with your double bass skillz...

[tomgrosset]

when u get used to playing beats with ur left foot? By the way i am a right footed drummer. Does anyone else have any other tips or tricks to play double bass?

This should help you.
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2885

[DarkToxin]

Bro...you gotta search the forum before putting up posts like these.

Dont be lazy man.


Definately

you should also check some stuff Dave Lombardo does, I don't know any DvD's though

[Class A Drummer]

Ive only seen a little of his stuff but i think mike portnoy might be able to help... even thought im not a huge fan of his.

http://drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7204

[Tim Waterson]

To everyone: I am playing 16th notes with both feet. So, I am playing 260 16th notes per minute. I play 8th notes with each individual foot (which does go fast anyway). I'm so sorry! I didn't even realize until you guys posted giving me these crazy numbers like 1100 bpm and stuff. I can go 260, but I mixed up 16th notes and 8th notes. I timed it yesterday and it is 260 bpm, 8th notes with each foot. I got the aid of the music teacher at my school to have me go with the metronome and only one foot ( the drum set is single bass and no double pedal) and I was keeping time perfectly, but in 8th notes! I was kinda eager to just get the exercise up and didn't really read over this first part.
Sorry!
- Marc
Marc did you try to [play along with George kollias?

Play along with George
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtkR...eorge%20Kollias
This is the spedds you are talking about

this is NOT easy to keep up to.... GEORGE you make us work too hard!!!!
\I use this an exercise to see if I can keep up.
Good Luck and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com




George's feet video

Get it from here, it would be faster and better

Thanks for the suggestion tim its a fantastic video!

[Afrolicious]

Yes, a pretty good way to train your left foot is to play the patterns you would usually play with your right foot on a single pedal, with your left foot. Start slowly to make sure play exactly correct and then practice until you can do all your single-bass patterns with the left foot as well as with the right (you probably won't get as fast with your left foot, but it will still help a lot).

[tambian89]

Marc did you try to play along with George kollias?

Play along with George
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtkR...eorge%20Kollias
This is the speeds you are talking about

this is NOT easy to keep up to.... GEORGE you make us work too hard!!!!
\I use this an exercise to see if I can keep up.
Good Luck and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com


Tim:
MY Band and I are actually learning "Cast Down the Heretic"!! Yes! That is the speed I am talking about! I LOVE DEATH METAL!! Haha...It's actually a very interesting part. Oddly enough, it's George's Blast beat which I can't do, so I've been practicing my blast beat a lot, and have increased my speed by quite a bit. Another fun thing to do with the blast beat is try try it in traditional grip (sped my trad grip up a lot and is much easier for me personally) and open-handed grip. A very talented drummer indeed. Thanks!

- Marc

[tomgrosset]

Can somebody give me a link to some doublebass pedal exercises on video?

Thanks.

[brokenhalo]

check out www. tigerbill.com. hes got a lot of material dedicated to double bass and 4 way co-ordination. but one of the main things you can do is simply work on snare rudiments on your bass drum (utilizing a metronome) until your feet become more comfortable. start at 60 bpm and play single strokes, paradiddles, double strokes, etc. raise the tempo SLOWLY. its just like strengthening your hands, basically. it takes a long time to get yourself comfortable at higher speeds. theres no magic pill for this.

[tomgrosset]

check out www. tigerbill.com. hes got a lot of material dedicated to double bass and 4 way co-ordination. but one of the main things you can do is simply work on snare rudiments on your bass drum (utilizing a metronome) until your feet become more comfortable. start at 60 bpm and play single strokes, paradiddles, double strokes, etc. raise the tempo SLOWLY. its just like strengthening your hands, basically. it takes a long time to get yourself comfortable at higher speeds. theres no magic pill for this.

Thanks. but I'm looking for videos.

[brokenhalo]

tiger bills got videos too, but dont discount something on a piece of paper.

[tambian89]

i started a month ago on double bass now and i can get just shy of 500 beats a minute before errors creep in. i think practicing a spread of speeds is important.

j

That is truly sick. anything above 300 bpm is crazy, close to 500 make me wanna cry.

[UVT_Drummer]

At first I was as sceptical as anyone would be, but I bought the video for about $30 and I must say that it is quite the product. It does take a lot of work to get the double strokes into a clean-sounding single-stroke roll, but now, roughly 9 months later, I can blast doubles that sound like like I am just running on my pedals, producing singles. Plus, in other videos that he offers, he teaches you how to play perfect flams at insane speeds and how to use multiple pedals.

[Tim Waterson]

That is truly sick. anything above 300 bpm is crazy, close to 500 make me wanna cry.
Quote:

Originally Posted by NUTHA JASON
i started a month ago on double bass now and i can get just shy of 500 beats a minute before errors creep in. i think practicing a spread of speeds is important.

NJ ...YOU forgot to mention about doing ALL your cool stick twirls while playing your double BASS.

Keep rockin them drums and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com

[NUTHA JASON]

lol. hey tim. have you ever met joe franko? i recently got his double bass DVD and have found it simply a big help to launch my double bass drumming. your thoughts on it? a bit old fashioned but crucial?

j

[Tim Waterson]

lol. hey tim. have you ever met joe franko? i recently got his double bass DVD and have found it simply a big help to launch my double bass drumming. your thoughts on it? a bit old fashioned but crucial?

j
NJ
No I have not met Joe yet but YES, I have the old video LOL
I bought every DB video that I could as I was working on research for my new DVD
Joes video is very cool and helpful for double bass drummers.
Joe seems like a very cool guy.
God Bless
Tim

[tambian89]

Nutha Jason:

How did learn how to get up to over 400 bpm in a month? That's mind-boggling!! I've been going for almost 5 months and I'm at 260 bpm.

- Marc

[aahznightsky]

and nutha, what division of 400 bpm? sixteenths? If it's 32nds that'd be nuts!

i can keep up single strokes at around 130 bpm give or take 5 ... 32nd notes.
and my doubles are pretty much there too! yay

even 400 bpm 16th notes is pretty rediculous when you think about it hehe.

[Novocaine]

Is there anybody out there who just CAN'T do solid double bass work?

I have two bass drums and worked with two pedals for a few months, and then got a double pedal for Christmas. And I still can't do anything that lasts more than 4 or 5 strokes.

My left beater comes back a lot more off the head than the right beater does. Whenever I try to hold a double bass line my legs just lock up.

Has anyone else tried but failed? Or maybe it took a LONG time? I guess some people just don't get it, or I'm doing something terribly wrong...I hope it's the latter.

[cdawg_2010]

My left beater comes back a lot more off the head than the right beater does
Have you tried tightning the spring tension or adjusted the beater angle on your pedal

[Novocaine]

Yea, that was a big problem for a while until I finally got them adjusted right. Both beaters spring back identical now, except the right one keeps going a bit longer than the left...but I guess that's to be expected.

[Bastardo]

I also have the same problem. It seems like my left foot simply refuses to work along. Like you said, sometimes it's just 4 or 5 strokes n it's out! Yet there are days, when everything seems to be working like it should, but those days are RARE ;)

I think I'll have to do some more adjusting on my iron cobra and practice way more, to get this thing down.

[Stu_Strib]

Sign me up. But then again, I'm my own worst critic, so maybe I'm ok at it?

[bunce]

im not mega pro, but i learnt fast, maybe too fast for my own good, there is only one thing u can do
not trplets, not paradiddles, not paraparadiddeles, not paraparaparadiddles! no, scrap that until u can play the most basic of beats with your double bass. here is what threw me into the double bass world fasdter than a tomcat f-11

x x x x x x x x hi-hat
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + count
o o snare
o o o o right bass drumm
o o o o left bass drum

that is the basic, try that at 70 quater note a minute, then boost it up to 90 or 100 when ur comfortable, but dont get too comfortable, mainly coz its hard to play that beat when ur going fast, and it sounds crap lol. its just there to get ur legs going in synk.

you could try the cooler, more metal, more used, and better sounding beat:


x x x x x x x x hi-hat
1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a count
o o snare
o o o o o o o o right bass
o o o o o o o o left bass

this would give a:

duka duka chaka duka duka duka chaka duka duka duka chaka duka duka duka

it sound kool, and when i play it at like hihat = 200 it gets really fast, that means i would be playing 400 bpm with the double kick, i think i can do around 700 max though, it kinda sounds a little 'un-tight' though

oh well i think i have had my say, i hope u become a great double bass expert because of all our help!!! :)

[jackothedrummer1]

Surely Nutha means 400 STROKES in one minute. I can not fathom anyone playing sixteenths at 400. That would be equivalent to 32nd notes at 200! If you can, you are one heck of a crazy drummer. Congratulations!

I agree starting with stright sixteenths at slow tempos and the gradual increase, but the rudiments help control tremendously.

[Capitaine Quebec]

Start slow and make your way up, there is no secret. I started at 100 bpm on quarter note. Now i am a bit up 420 bpm, i started this january to practice dbl bass for real (cuz i have my pedal since november but i havent really touched it till january) If you want a non-drum exercice , run fast on place just like football player. It helped me alot. You get a certain motion of the basswork and your legs are working hard

[Bonhamfan]

I don't use the 2 pedal's I try to do my double bass with just one foot like Bonham. Eventually I might add a second bass pedal in there but I still want to figure out every little detail with my right foot.

[mlehnertz]

Hahahaha... And here is how I sound playing double bass.

"Duba duba duba duba duba badoom badoom badoom boom boom boom..."

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

I am struggling with the exact same thing right now. I have owned a double bass pedal for only about a month, and my left foot is completely hopeless. But 2 years ago my right hand was in disarray, and it has made slow, but stellar progrss.

I smile at my left foot when I hear one thud and then nothing where the next three beats should have been, because I know that it just takes practice.

Not talent, just practice. That's easy enough.

Good luck to us all!

DPS

[deadbirdsoup]

I have had a db for nearly a year now and iv never really had a big problem with it. I think it helps to do something active and that involves your feet so you have them in shape. To play Db drumming at fast speeds i would say in most cases you would have to be reletivly fit.

Anyway I was naturally slow at the start then i just built it up and its getting faster now.

[Guinness]

Use weight training to build DB chops. Take an old pair of tennis shoes and duct tape a divers weight sack on top of the toes and work on your rudiments. This builds endurance and mega chops. I also find that your shoes make a big difference. I prefer Vans. I also heard that Pumas work really well.

[shuffle]

I am not very good at it either. The music I play doesn't call for lots of double bass, and I don't practice it very much. But then again, if I'd be better at it , I would certainly find ways to integrate double-bass to our songs

What I would like to learn to play is actually what I find the most difficult with double-bass : hand-feet combinations. RLRLBbBbRLRL..., RLBbRLBb..., and so on. I can't seem to get these to sound good.

Mike Portnoy is pretty good at it !

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/mikeportnoyparadigm.html

[Anduin]

Work through Stick Control with yer feet, and you'll get good whether you want to or not. Start slow. Speed will come by itself; don't try to force it.

[Pedro]

I've heard that there is one pedal witch doen't have this problem and that's an double Axis pedal. It seems the 2 pedals have the same feeling and approach, in stead of the left pedal(feel) beeing different.

[aahznightsky]

Surely Nutha means 400 STROKES in one minute. I can not fathom anyone playing sixteenths at 400. That would be equivalent to 32nd notes at 200! If you can, you are one heck of a crazy drummer. Congratulations!

I agree starting with stright sixteenths at slow tempos and the gradual increase, but the rudiments help control tremendously.


nah it wouldnt be 400 strokes in a minute. That's not alot of strokes at all. My guess is 8th notes!

[NUTHA JASON]

i mean i can do around 500 individual strokes neatly in a minute or with a metronome set at 125b/min i play 16ths. but i'm more into actual d/bass beats, applications and fills at the moment. when it comes to hands i want speed, but with feet i want dynamics and versatility.

j

[tambian89]

i mean i can do around 500 individual strokes neatly in a minute or with a metronome set at 125b/min i play 16ths. but i'm more into actual d/bass beats, applications and fills at the moment. when it comes to hands i want speed, but with feet i want dynamics and versatility.

j

I understand now. so basically, 500 quater noters per minute right? (500 divided by 4 = 125...so yeah). I like using double bassing to play patterns, like setting down a paradiddle with my feet at about 120 - 125 bpm and then either playing my ride or high hat along with the right foot strokes. I also like to do single stroke at fast speeds (I play thrash metal) (at around 240 (16th notes) bpm, which I can play cleanly; I am still working on keeping my 260, which I can reach but I am still having a bit of trouble keeping it clean). With a few more weeks of practice, I should be able to play 260 sixteenth notes cleanly.

- Marc

[tambian89]

I agree starting with stright sixteenths at slow tempos and the gradual increase, but the rudiments help control tremendously.

Ity is best to start with straight 16th notes and rudiments. I have obtained all my speed and control from a combonation of practice with the rudiment and 16th note exercises I had posted.

- Marc

[foursticks]

Work through Stick Control with yer feet, and you'll get good whether you want to or not. Start slow. Speed will come by itself; don't try to force it.

I concurr, this man knows what he's talking about. Listen to him, he is wise.....

[aahznightsky]

i mean i can do around 500 individual strokes neatly in a minute or with a metronome set at 125b/min i play 16ths. but i'm more into actual d/bass beats, applications and fills at the moment. when it comes to hands i want speed, but with feet i want dynamics and versatility.

j


lol I'm quite the opposite. i'm not too much into using doublebass alot in music, so i know how to do a few flashy fills, and also licks like that Benny Greb thing with the double bass underneath the crashes and snare/toms.

and a cool foot ostinato or two :-P

[drumz4eva]

a good technique for bass drumming.....is the heel toe technique

steve smith explains it really well in his video, and u could probally find it in a bucnh of ppl's videos

hope that helps...

peace

[Jeff Almeyda]

I started out by just running on the pedals to approximate a 16th note roll. You need to "wake up" the larger leg muscles muscles and get them going. I would just work on playing a backbeat witth an 8th note ride for hours until I was sore the next day. After a little while, my legs started to work.

Once you've gotten the running thing, the next step is to develop some real technique. I agree with Anduin and Four Sticks and would suggest Stick Control 1 page per week, every day. Do each exercise for 1 minute and move on. This makes for a 24 minute exercise. After a week, move on to the next page. Practice heel down to develop the ankle movement. Go slowly 60 BPM.

This is a long "program". I believe it's like 47 weeks long or something but imagine where your feet will be in that time! I am on week 7 right now and the control that is developing is amazing!!! I was sore for the first two weeks but now I'm rolling!!!

BTW: I got the Stick Control thing from Dom Famularo, an absolute master of double pedal

[GAZZASCOTLAND]

seat height and position can come into the eqation quite a bit...whats comfortable for you main kick leg,may not be suitable for the left...sometimes a compromise has to be reached if you really want double kick to work....i had a bit of trouble at first a few years ago but,after a few seat height experiments,it all came together...im still no mike portnoy speed wise,but can get a constant run going no probs and various combinations too...good luck

[Stu_Strib]

Oh yeah, and don't watch that Thomas Lang dvd if you don't want to get sick!

[Tyrnox]

Hey guys,

I was working the other day and I was thinking of some good basedrum excercises, since metal is a good part of my playing ( Not much choice since I have 2 death metal band's atm ), I'm always trying to make some stuff up to practice to keep me up to shape, so I came up with these, and thought they we're quite great, so I decided to share them with you guys.

Pardon if the video's are a little sloppy, I only had a few minutes or so to record them...but don't take example from me :P, the last thing you wan't is to jump on your kit straight away to play this, unless of course you wan't to feel soar for the next few days :).

The first video is pretty standard stuff, the harder part is getting the tripplets down at the end, and in good timing.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15034255/BaseDrumExcercise1.avi.html

The second video is tough stuff, and I still don't have this one down perfectly, the basedrum acceleration is really not easy to get down perfect, and it's pretty hard to come back to the same speed ( unless you are using a metronome, I wasn't on this video ), but at least you get the idea of the excercise. A good example of a band that uses some of this basedrum work is Necrophagist, constantly switching basedrum speeds within a beat.
Hellhammer does alot of this also on his oh so many albums.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15034752/BaseDrumExcercise2.avi.html

Last Excercise is pretty easy, but focuses more on endurance then anything, playing this for a few measures is not a problem, however doing this for 10 + minutes straight, is another issue, watch out with this one though, don't over do it...when you feel your back is starting to ache, move on to other thing's. The right foot is always moving in this one, it's also good to alternate the right foot with the left one, it's a great way to strenghen your left foot.

http://rapidshare.de/files/15035115/BaseDrumExcercise3_Endurance_.avi.html


Enjoy, hope you guys find this usefull.

[Novocaine]

I've heard that there is one pedal witch doen't have this problem and that's an double Axis pedal. It seems the 2 pedals have the same feeling and approach, in stead of the left pedal(feel) beeing different.

I've heard conflicting reports about Axis pedals.

What also baffles me is that I figured my legs would be perfect for double bass. ESPECIALLY my left. I am a basketball player and have good leg strength (my vertical leap is exceptional), and I jump much higher off my left leg.

Just gotta keep practicing.

[NUTHA JASON]

I love educational posts like this. good job. the bass acceleration is very cool though it will be a few months before i get good enough to attempt exercises like that. pity we cannot see your foot technique close up. cool drumkit bro.

j

[jarrod]

well im 15 im not really that good at drums but im learning doubel bass now and i found starting slow and slowly getting faster helped im not fast but getting there.

i also have some weights on my legs as i play them

[Tyrnox]

Thanks for the cool comment Nutha,

I guess if a few more people are interested, I wouldn't mind remaking a video for the foot.
I like posting some of the beats I use to practice and such. I just recently got a lot of money from my income tax refund so me and my family have decided to finaly make a home studio. Getting a nice console ( Or perhaps a computer ? ), and i'm going to buy myself a nice Mic package :). I would be able to show you guys my work with my bands and of course maybee post a little more nifty beats from time to time :).

[Tyrnox]

well im 15 im not really that good at drums but im learning doubel bass now and i found starting slow and slowly getting faster helped im not fast but getting there.

i also have some weights on my legs as i play them


Ahh good man :P, I too play with weights on my legs, and the progress so far has been quite good. By the way I put up a thread in this forum regarding beats for double bass workout ( including videos of me doing them ), for those interested.

[NUTHA JASON]

cool. bring it on. its lovely when life throws you a good meaty bone.

j

[NUTHA JASON]

for one of the best online instruction of double bass technique i've ever seen see this cool member of the pearl forum's videos. he has great technique.

http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=100222

j

[ahector]

That's really great; I have a Tama IC pedal and I was pretty much convinced there was no way I could do the heel-toe technique without getting an Axis or something long like that. Thanks for the link.

[tomgrosset]

to what dvd or series of dvds do u think would help me increase my double bass drum skills?

"Performance And Technique"
by Bobby Jarzombek..
He has some cool ideas.

[mr_hayward_99]

how do i download the file without paying for it?

[mr_hayward_99]

igonre my post

you have damn fast feet,

i couldn't really work out what u were playing in first exercise?

the one where u speed up in the middle i try and utilise, with hands as well, good for building speed

[Tyrnox]

I'm going to write down the first excercise after i'm done jamming with my band, i'll try and post it for tonight :P.

[Tim Waterson]

Ahh good man :P, I too play with weights on my legs, and the progress so far has been quite good. By the way I put up a thread in this forum regarding beats for double bass workout ( including videos of me doing them ), for those interested.

Stay Away from weights I know of TOO many drummers that ended up hurting muscles!
Tim
ww.timwaterson.com

[tambian89]

Stay Away from weights I know of TOO many drummers that ended up hurting muscles!
Tim
ww.timwaterson.com

Tim is definately right: Weights put too much strain on your legs. My brother is in college for Physical Therapy, and told me that they would promote too much testosterone onto my joints and give me cramps. The muscles would also be strained in the process. I started using just my ankles, since you always want to isolate the smallest muscle group when you go fast, and eventually, I didn't even need the weights.

My friend knew a drummer who used to use 2B sticks to play death metal, and also used weights on the sticks while hitting a burlap pad which absorbed shock. He had everything working against him, and used the resistance to gain incredible speed. However, after almost a year of this exercise, he had so much pain in his hands, wrists, and elbows that he couldn't even drum. He actually had to stop drumming all together because he developed carpel tunnel sydrome. Even if you hold this sticks properly, you are highly prone to CTS if you put this much strain on your hands.

- Marc

[Class A Drummer]

Stay Away from weights I know of TOO many drummers that ended up hurting muscles!
Tim
ww.timwaterson.com
So true. Never gonna be able to play the same again if u injure yourself with the weights.

[Tyrnox]

Hmm interesting, I guess i'll watch out for that then. I just kind of figured people use ankle weights and such for jogging, I figured might as well use them for drumming. I never put them on for more then 20 mins or so of slower double bass workout.

[FloEy]

regarding the whole weights thing, but what if i just wanted to work out my legs?

[comez]

i make the same exercises with feet , like there was in that Jahnny Rabbs -30 days to better hands video, and really it helps to develop speed with feet !

[jarrod]

dosnt it depend on how much weight u have on your legs becuase i dont have to much weight. Only enought to build up my leg muscels so they dont hurt when i play with out them... but im always up for new ways to get faster at double kick

[jarrod]

this site at the top has some cool bass drum mostly the heal toe but number 3 gives u some wicked doubel bass mine looks like that but my foot is a littel above the middel of the pedal



http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=100222

[Raymond Bloom]

Only enought to build up my leg muscels so they dont hurt when i play with out them...

Playing without using muscles?? :o

damn...

:-)

[jarrod]

har har =p no weights.......

[Tim Waterson]

dosnt it depend on how much weight u have on your legs becuase i dont have to much weight. Only enought to build up my leg muscels so they dont hurt when i play with out them... but im always up for new ways to get faster at double kick
Its a secret shhhhhhhhh
PRACTICE! LOL
JK it's just finding the techniques that will alow you to go faster easier.
Good Luck

[VampiricNightMachine]

Here is something out of my own experience:
I play in a metal band in which I have to maintain rather fast double bass for longer periods of time and I have still problems doing this comfortable. Of course, there is this one method: You play and play, although it hurts and finally you reach a point where it doesnt hurt anymore and you can play comfortably at rather high speeds( in my case about 190-200bpm 16th notes). BUT: if you "practice " like that you will have way too many relapses and you will have to start over and over again...this means that you DONT gradually build up your speed but have to start from a low level again and push your self up unnaturally and the next time you play you havent really made any progress but you have to force yourself again and strain your muscles unnaturally.
THE RIGHT APPROACH: Some whise words of my drum teacher: "THE SLOWER YOU START,THE FASTER YOU WILL GET FASTER"; what I am practicing at the moment is constant sixteenth notes at slow speeds with metronome with my feet, while doing rudiments with my hands. While doing this it is important to use dynamics with both your hands and feet, that will allow you to practice longer because you dont get bored so easiely:
it`s like soloing and practicing sensibly at the same time

[Dyaxe]

double bass has always been the hardest thing for me on drums. It was just recently that i got "the feel" for my snare drum. Awhile ago i was not able to do a snare drum roll, and now all of a sudden i can. Im expecting the same thing will happen with my feet if i keep practicing.

[bodinski]

Close your hats & practice single with your weak foot. Helps a bunch.

[cdawg_2010]

move your beater angle way back if you can and then it will be really hard to play because of how far it has to go and then it will make your foot stronger. Just play like that for awhile
like here:
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d98/cdawg_2013/pedal2.jpg

[mr. inards]

Do every thing with your left foot for a week and that will motivate that lazy left foot, My left foot just decides on its own when its going to work for me and when that happens I just warm up twice as long with ONLY my left foot doing the bass work. Nothing fancy just good funk grooves and some shuffles. But when your to the point where you canride 16th notes solid with only your left foot than your in good shape just keep it up cus my left foot gets rusty very quickly, probably cus i dont doo that stuff ALL the time

[Fur drummer]

Is there anybody out there who just CAN'T do solid double bass work?

I have two bass drums and worked with two pedals for a few months, and then got a double pedal for Christmas. And I still can't do anything that lasts more than 4 or 5 strokes.

My left beater comes back a lot more off the head than the right beater does. Whenever I try to hold a double bass line my legs just lock up.

Has anyone else tried but failed? Or maybe it took a LONG time? I guess some people just don't get it, or I'm doing something terribly wrong...I hope it's the latter.

I know what you mean. I have always played a double bass kit. I tried using just one bass drum and a double pedal and it sounded really bad. I just couldn't get use to not having a drum in front of that other pedal and never could adjust the thing right.

[Jacko Wacko]

I'd love to be able to play double bass like Joey Jordison :D

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOzSiBalBFg&search=Joey%20Jordison
He plays cool fast double bass around half way through that video

[Jeroen aka aksie]

A while ago i posted a comment on double-bass playing... it was about my view and experiences on how to get started for some nice speed as result. I don't think many of you have read it so here is it again:

I've tried to explain it as plain as I could, (because English is not my first language)

This read will take 15 minutes I think !! (what is 15 minutes compared to days of practicing =)

First of all when I say “I can play double-bass” then I mean playing 16th notes continuing for a long period (like it is used in most death metal songs). Because playing those 16th notes at a nice/high speed requires a different technique (for me) then the technique I use for a quick RLR or RLRLR with my double-bass for example. The difference between those two techniques for me and I think for a lot drummers is that with the normally used technique we play a lot/for the most part with our leg and we use its weight(so our whole leg goes up and down and the strength is coming from you upper leg muscles because you lift that part). And on the other hand, with the technique to play those continuing 16th notes I (have to) play a lot more with my ankle, but of course I use my leg also. You have to find the perfect balance between those two. Sitting a bit higher makes it sometimes easier to play with that ankle motion.
OK if you do understand what I am talking about you’re doing a good job =)
But to practice I used a few methods.

In general when you have problems with a foot when you are beginning (for most of the drummers your left one), then compare it to your right. Very often you can “learn” from your right foot.

AND get a metronome (metronomeonline.com)

- First of all I was not capable to accept the rebound of the pedal of my left foot/leg. So it simply didn’t function as my right leg/foot did. I couldn’t play a rhythm with my left foot at the same volume and power of the bass-drum of my right foot. Just put your metronome at a slow speed (80) and play 1 bass-drum every tap of the metronome, then double it, so play 2 kicks every tap(8th notes). Now you are creating some power and control(accepting the rebound) over your left foot. When you are comfortable with that try 90, ok with that? then try 100. I got problems around 120. At 120 it is enough I think. (you are still using your old technique so you play with all the weight of your leg). When you are comfortable with this and you can play stable at 120 on the metronome and play 2 kicks per tap you are doing nice. Also do it with your right foot, you’ll notice that you are probably automatically using more your ankle than your left foot.

B.T.W. when you try to play with 1 bass pedal(right foot) at your fastest speed, then you can probably play pretty fast (you use the ankle motion, a different technique then when you play normal). You can’t cut it to a roll of 6 probably(still with 1 foot), just that max speed is going good for a longer period(maybe not so loud). In the end we want to be able to control that technique, (only a bit different I think), at different speeds and with 2 feet !

OK, so you’re ok now with playing 120 on the metronome with your right and left foot separated. Now put the metronome back to 80 and play again 2 kicks per tap of the metronome (8th notes) with you left foot, then integrate your right foot, then you have the result that you want in the end AT A SLOW…slow speed. Put it to 90, to 100 and maybe to 120. (STILL USING THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF YOUR LEG). When you are comfortable with playing at around 110 with 16th notes so both legs at the same time, your doing a nice job. But there is a limit to this use of the whole weight of your leg. So now we want to integrate that other technique which allows you to play faster, with a lot lesser effort.
Now we are going to use that other technique. Now I will exaggerate it, but then you know what to do. You sit down and put your feet on the pedal, heel on the ground, then put your heels up, higher then you normally do(so almost only your toes are in contact with the pedal). Then play really, really slow, just every second (60) a kick. R L R L, really slow yeah. But you only use your ankle, this means that your knee height is almost at the same level all the time. Just do it really slow. Ok you don’t have to do it @ 80, 90 and 100, because we want play those double-bass faster. Set your metronome @ 120. play RLRL every metronome tap (those 16th notes) Now you can put your heel a bit down and try to get the perfect balance between the use of your ankle and your leg.

OK now stay on your drumthrone, turn 180 degrees, put your feet on the ground and put your heels up, so you are mostly only in touch with the ground with your toes. Then you try to tap 16th notes (you must have done this before =). The strength is also coming from your heel and toes, “pushing” your leg up. The same way you want to do this on the pedal, but on the pedal you have to accept that rebound of the pedal, so try to find that balance between the “pushing” that ankle motion and that leg strength.

When you’re trying to play like this your bass-drums WILL undoubtedly hit your bassdrum head at the same time. This is normal, you don’t have to get back and slow it down to a speed which you are capable of playing this to. At 120 or 140 is ok to practice with. You have to correct yourself every time again and again, so that means don’t continue playing when the beaters are hitting at the same time. You have to force your leg/foot etc… to play that 16th notes correctly. There will be a day it will work, maybe not perfect but you can get it constant and it going nice. (all this practicing should be relaxed, that’s also the way you want to be able to play alike, so no tighten of any muscels which are not needed.) You will tighten some muscles sometime just to try something, or maybe because it is frustrating =) But try not to do it. Maybe you are tend to put your left foot lower on the pedal at first because that’s easier, but try to play the same as your right.

Comment: you have to practice a bit heel down to, like a lot drummers say. Maybe you can’t play very loud, fast of whatever, it just helps you to create those muscles for that other technique.

I played stone stick control exercises with my feet(not even at really high speeds), it’s a very good way to develop that foot coordination, but once you get used to that left foot accepting that rebound of the pedal, I stopped that practicing, because my goal was to play those 16th notes at a nice speed, constant and relaxed.

That day or hour when you have “forced” your legs etc… to play that double-bass at a cool speed, you will be more than happy. Your not capable yet of playing this double-bass very quickly without forcing things or first practicing 5 or more minutes, but that hour will give you energy, strength, power to go on with practicing and above all belief that you can and will play that double-bass correctly in a few months. The satisfaction will be f00king good.

I hope that all of you beginning double-bass players understand my words, and maybe things develop totally different in your situation, but maybe you got only 1 useful thing of knowledge out of this read. And as I said what is a read of 15? minutes compared to days of practice =) And these are my experiences, it’s one way of practicing double-bass you decide what you do with it. And above all double-bass is practicing, practicing, practicing.


C ya !! go practice NOW !



Jeroen

[iconn]

Hah, I finally decided to sit down and actually try this again. Well, I decided to do a few excercises in this book I have, and that went ok, but they weren't anything extreme. Then I was like "well, I think I should practice heel up since that's how I'm going to end up playing anyways." so, I put my heels up and started doing 16th notes and random crap with my hands. Here I am, one hour later after doing all this, soaking wet in sweat!. Lol, before I never understood guys getting wore out and sweaty when they're just practicing, oh but now I do :) Hehe, just thought I would share this little discovery with you all.

[jarrod]

yeah to be abel to double like joey would be pritty cool but i wana double like pete sandoval or hellhammer

[sloppyn9ne]

Hah, I finally decided to sit down and actually try this again. Well, I decided to do a few excercises in this book I have, and that went ok, but they weren't anything extreme. Then I was like "well, I think I should practice heel up since that's how I'm going to end up playing anyways." so, I put my heels up and started doing 16th notes and random crap with my hands. Here I am, one hour later after doing all this, soaking wet in sweat!. Lol, before I never understood guys getting wore out and sweaty when they're just practicing, oh but now I do :) Hehe, just thought I would share this little discovery with you all.
LOL! i was wondering the same thing untill i got my first pedal yesterday

[DreamTheater4life]

What about the heel-toe technique? Can anyone tell me how to do that? Like the thing Tim Waterson does to do doubles on the bass drum.

[smldrums]

Watching videos does jack all. The best way to learn is to sit your butt on the kit and do it. Start slow at like 90 BPM doing 1/8ths and speed up until you can't follow anymore. Then try 16ths. A really big challenge for me was doing triplets. If you listen to John Dolmayan on BYOB, he does triplets all the way through, but he has locked his right hand to his right foot. Start slow doing triplets, with a quarter note on your riding hand.

Good luck!

P.S.: The REAL secret to double bass drum is this: use it as little as possible. I love Slipknot, but listen to Joey Jordison for an hour, and try to not have a headache. It's important to not overuse it. It's more impressive for someone to hear an amazing fill once in a while and really notice it, than blazing double kicks throughout a song. Be tasteful.

[ZA1091]

If you dont know how to do the heel toe technique or you just want to gain tons of speed and control you should check out ballisticdrums.com. You can take some free lessons on double bass. I took them and started getting better, faster, and more in control with my bass drum.

[ventor]

I tried a lot of stuff but finally found a way to train it proper: first practise with a metronome, in the beginning not too fast (don´t know how quick you are), I did it about 120 bpm, and then increase the tempo as soon as you get the slower tempo "safe". Second way: I play special patterns always including both hands and both feets (got that from the Thomas Lang DVD but I think it is a good exercise). You should try both, first for speed and safety and second for control

[Sex Monkey Slava]

Just get any drumming book and try to fit double dass where it feels the best...
Although try a good drum fill:
# Small tom (snare drum) - left foot - right foot - floor tom.# Reverse it any way you like and on the high speed it sounds awesome!

[intooder]

A couple of things that I've noticed recently that seem to help me (since I'm too lazy to just practice rudiments without a reason):
1) To train your left: Try not leaving it on the hi-hat pedal much - leave the HH pedal closed, or move it away when you're practising DB and use the cymbals more. Initially you might not do much with your left but eventually you'll start adding in notes from the left.
2) For heel up players that want to practice their heel down (eventual goal being to be able to eventually play heel toe): Get some lighter sticks like hot rods or brushes - this way it'll make more sense to play heel down, since I find my heel up strokes are a lot louder, and you'll want to have a uniform volume, especially if you don't have everything mic-ed up where you practice.

[drummer whatyacallim]

i have been playin double bass for about a year and i cant build up a good stamina and speed without loosen control plz help

[NUTHA JASON]

i recorded this last year at drummerlive 2005...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yBmnc-raxdE

i hope the quality is good enough for you to get something out of it.

j

[Wegadrummer]

Thanks Nuth.. the quality is fine..

[Andy]

That's great thanks.

Too bad that there aren't so many drummer fesitvals in germany.

[Stu_Strib]

another youtube video woefully behind on the audio track.

[rkettner]

i have been playin double bass for about a year and i cant build up a good stamina and speed without loosen control plz help

Hey,

Here is an exercises I recommend for many double bass drummers that are just getting started. First, try playing all your normal beats using just your weaker foot on the aux-pedal. You can set your hi-hats closed, or play on the ride if you don't want to get the loud hi-hat sound happening. Do this for a week or two until your weaker foot can play most of the same stuff... quick kick patterns, etc. Once you are comfortable doing that... start playing single stroke rolls slowly along with a metronome.

Tip: Think of how it was when you first started playing a single stroke roll with your hands. Many of the students I sub-teach for still have trouble with this... it's all about practice.

Don't try to go too fast. This is the #1 mistake. Focus on consistency... and play a range of speeds from 80BPM-150BPM (with 5BPM incriments as you become comfortable). Sometimes playing slower is actually harder... so spend some time at all speed ranges.

Eventually get a basic rock groove happening while playing the single stroke roll with your feet. For added challenge, use the double strokes as outined in Bass Drum Secrets (http://www.bassdrumsecrets.com). This is the next big step... but you'll want to nail the single stroke roll first for sure.

In fact... the beginning of every practice may be a bit frusterating at first... as you will want to start where you left off (in terms of speed). Go back and start at 80 BPM and be sure you are playing it correctly.

Other Tips:
Practice singles alone both feet independently (with a metronome)
Practice adding notes in between the one-foot singles with your second foot (yes, change lead foot to mix things up)
Eventually try patters like single paradiddles, or other more complex things from "Stick Control for the Modern Drummer"

[rkettner]

I'd love to be able to play double bass like Joey Jordison :D

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOzSiBalBFg&search=Joey%20Jordison
He plays cool fast double bass around half way through that video

Nice video. I'd not a big fan of the band... and had never really seen a video of him just sitting behind a kit (just the one big solo vid from live show). I kinda liked this short clip. Nothing too crazy flashy... but FAST :). Good link.

[NUTHA JASON]

i know. arrrgh! one of these days i am going to get me the software and serverspace to post long videos on the web. youtube is free...pay with peanuts and monkeys is what you get.

[TAMAmetaldrummer]

the best way to get good on double bass is to practice a lot. i started playing double bass in summer of '05. If you are dedicated to your drumming, then you are set. practice first by not even using your pedal. just work your leg muscles and build them up. doing triplets on the double bass pedal is the easiest. a good drummer that uses triplets and very fast spurts is the Lamb of God drummer, Chris Adler. his double bass is really crisp.

[davodi74]

You guys know the book 'Stick Control' by George Lawrence Stone? You can also use that as 'Foot Control'. It's freakin' hard, but it works.

[the blister exists]

i recently got a gibralter avenger series double bass pedal and i love it, i can do fast bursts with them really well kind of like avenged sevenfold, the only thing is im having trouble with doing them fast for a long period of time, after a while they tend to come out of time, im into nu - metal and i would really like to now how to do this, so if anyone could give me some tips on how to get better at that would be great.

[sloppyn9ne]

before i make an ass of myself, welcome to drummerworld!



well to get ur feet faster, goto the technique sub-thread of the drummerworld forum and look at the stickies. one is called double bass technique thread. read that and ur feet will be uber fast!

im sorry for the smart-ass remark but when its the thread you posted this in; no offesne but it makes no sense to me. but i do stupid stuff all the time so i see it from ur point plus ur new.

[jarrod]

How long can u hold the fast burst for in seconds/mins or what ever

It would help if u practice slow and build your endurance from there say seta time like5-10mins and play at a speed for that hole time and once u can do it easly go a littel bit faster up by like 10bpm or what ever and keep doing that.

[Jeff Almeyda]

1. Read the thread on this forum about double bass.
2. It sounds like you need to develop basic endurance with your legs. Play your patterns slower but for longer periods of time. (Like jarrod says above) Get up to the point where you could play for a half hour if you wanted to. (Not easy)
3. Stretch those muscles after practice. Please make sure you stretch properly.

Do this workout routine at least 4 days a week. You probably won't be able to do it more than that at first due to muscles soreness.

Give yourself 3 months on this and see where you're at.

[DrumProgressive]

Ok, i found an interesting sheet of tabs containing double bass drumming. I've studied those exercises for 1 or 2 weeks now and all i can say is that they really open up your creativity in double bass drumming.
Much triplets are involved to give nice effects to grooves.
However these exercises do'nt help your speed they are ver good to practice. (you might wanna use a headphone with metronome because some are tricky to get.)

They are written by Bobby Rondinelli.

So here you go: http://www.drums-co.be/pdf/Bobby.Rondinelli.pdf

[joey]

hey

i dont know if this will help you but it helped me im not into nu-metal but if you use the use both hands on hihat like going 1+2+3+4+ and then do the double bass under neth it.


if u know wat i mean. for this when you are doing the stick thing on the hi hat keep the double bass going.

hh: L-R-L-R-L-R
bd: L-R-L-R-L-R

[marlos]

My explanation on the Bass drum double stroke roll.
And an Ostinato exercise , for advanced independence controll.(6 groupings)

http://www.edrums.gr/video2.html

Hope the videos help you on the areas above.
Drummerworld... a great place for sharing information on our favorite subject....



Educational DVD is on the making .... will keep you posted...

Panos

[Soffer]

oh man, why the Real Player? No QT or WMP?

[Soffer]

OK, I've watched the WMP files, and what you do there is a bit... well - sick!
The ostinato part is quite unbelievable! It's beautifull and seems undoable!
I'll be happy to look at that upcoming dvd.

well done!

[NUTHA JASON]

this pedal work raises things to new heights. it insane.

WIN PLAYER High Res 15.6MB (http://www.edrums.gr/INTERNET%20FILES/ostinato%20HIGH.wmv)

WIN PLAYER High Res 5,4 MB (http://www.edrums.gr/INTERNET%20FILES/MONTUNO%20HIGH.wmv)

j

[VampiricNightMachine]

I haven´t seen anybody else except marco minnemann with such a crazy foot ostinato playing going on, really great man. But I think what you are doing with your hands destoys it a bit and makes it sound somehow unclean to me. If you slowed it down a bit played less with your hands it would be great for me.
But that is just my impression

[marlos]

this pedal work raises things to new heights. it insane.

WIN PLAYER High Res 15.6MB (http://www.edrums.gr/INTERNET%20FILES/ostinato%20HIGH.wmv)

WIN PLAYER High Res 5,4 MB (http://www.edrums.gr/INTERNET%20FILES/MONTUNO%20HIGH.wmv)

j

Dear Jason , thank you for your comments , the dvd which I am self producing will show all the possibilities for using the Duallist , and I hope to have it ready for sale by September. It will be endorsed by the Duallist company and we will advertise it on all the major Percussion publications.

[marlos]

OK, I've watched the WMP files, and what you do there is a bit... well - sick!
The ostinato part is quite unbelievable! It's beautifull and seems undoable!
I'll be happy to look at that upcoming dvd.

well done!


Thank you for your comments ... I dont own a Mac , and the quicktime format is a bit tricky for me... Keep up the drumming ..
Best Regards

Panos

[tomgrosset]

Man, that was amazing.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Your multiple pedal work and footwork in general take a backseat to no one my friend. I'm just now getting into this area and I can only imagine the amount of effort and dedication you put into developing that level of facility.

Or I could just say: WOW!!!

[marlos]

Your multiple pedal work and footwork in general take a backseat to no one my friend. I'm just now getting into this area and I can only imagine the amount of effort and dedication you put into developing that level of facility.

Or I could just say: WOW!!!

Thank you for your comments , does your friend have any media I could take a look at? Keep up the drumming!

[jarrod]

how fast can u go when u go with your fast burst


that could help or just keep the hh going with one hand and paly 8th notes with that while 16 notes with bass drum, and try lots of diffrent speeds so u can get them into shape

[Drummertist]

Ok..I'm not gonna dilly-dally around the situation. Here's a rough sketch:

_x x x x | x x x x
_.....o...........o
_
_
_o......o......oo
..................V

See the two eight note kicks (the two with the "V" under them)? I can't play those above 110 bps! I have absolutly NO speed in my feet whatsoever. My friend who has only been playing for two months can do that no problem. I've tried working on my techique, but I just can't seem to get it clean. I have to strain to get it out. I need help

PS: I hope the sketch comes up alright and that you can understand it.

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

He was calling you "friend" and implying that your footwork was second to none.

[marlos]

Very embarassing !!!! - No one is perfect ..... Thanks for the clarification, I read the posting too fast ...Sorry guys..

[toteman2]

Marlos is the real deal when it comes to insane foot ostinatio work...I've never sceen anything quite like it...For all those who consider using the dualist pedal "cheating", I think Marlos would like to have a discussion with you...

Excellent work as always Marlos...

How did you get to the level you're at in independence? Any specific studies, or mentors?

[marlos]

Marlos is the real deal when it comes to insane foot ostinatio work...I've never sceen anything quite like it...For all those who consider using the dualist pedal "cheating", I think Marlos would like to have a discussion with you...

Excellent work as always Marlos...

How did you get to the level you're at in independence? Any specific studies, or mentors?

Thank you for your kind words ... I think the best ostinato player out there is Grant Collins check out www.grantcollins.com the man is incredible , of course Thomas lang and Marco minemann plus the "monster" Dennis Chambers.. I will try to incorporate all the styles above to my DVD so anyone can see the development of the ostinato starting from Max roach --the drum also walzes- and Joe Morello playing an incredible solo with a 5/4 ostinato in 195something ... to todays applications with loops and polyostinatos .
Panos

[marlos]

Thank you for your kind words ... I think the best ostinato player out there is Grant Collins check out www.grantcollins.com the man is incredible , of course Thomas lang and Marco minemann plus the "monster" Dennis Chambers.. I will try to incorporate all the styles above to my DVD so anyone can see the development of the ostinato starting from Max roach --the drum also walzes- and Joe Morello playing an incredible solo with a 5/4 ostinato in 195something ... to todays applications with loops and polyostinatos .
Panos... .. ..
.

[DrumProgressive]

Try moving you foot in a swivel motion while playing those 2 fast bass notes if you only use 1 pedal. If you use 2 pedals, just work e bit on your foot independance, that will help out a lot. The post i made above yours is great to create some foot independance for double bass players.

[marlos]

... .. ..
. Check out www.grantcollins.com for some amazing display of ostinato videos!

[Backwards Marathon]

Hey all, when i play my double kick my left foot takes longer to hit the bass drum than my right and it goes back further than my right foot. I was just wondering if anyone else has this problem or any tips on how to get rid of it.

Wes

[jarrod]

I had something kind of like this problem and it could be because u are leaning a but to one side, and if u arnt then keep your left foot down and keep both feet on the pedal or if u can tbring your left foot down bring ya right up a littel



___________________
jarrod

[Afrolicious]

I think problems like these are normal when you start learning double bass. Remember when you started playing drums, your right foot didn't move as perfect as nowadays. It's all training. The best thing you can do is to play a lot and start slowly. Don't expect your left foot to be as fast and exact as your right foot. You need time to achieve the right feeling.

[marlos]

Check out www.grantcollins.com for some amazing display of ostinato videos!
... .
...

[Joey313]

has anybody ever heard of the isotonik for double bass thing? i was looking into it for my birthday, but my dad thinks it is a scam. does anybody know? does it work? or is it just a scam?

thanks

[UVT_Drummer]

If you are talking about joe Stronsick's isotonic system, it isn't a scam. I never seen that particular system, but I have his ballistic bass drum system and several others and I am perfectly satisfied with all of them. However, I would recommend that you start off with his basic ballistic bass drum dvd (I think it is only $30). He does an excellent job of really teaching you the heel toe technique (which eventually will lead to faster single strokes as well as blazing doubles). So, while I have never used the isotonic system, I think you will be just as happy with his basic double bass dvd, and it is a lot cheaper.

[tambian89]

If you are talking about joe Stronsick's isotonic system, it isn't a scam. I never seen that particular system, but I have his ballistic bass drum system and several others and I am perfectly satisfied with all of them. However, I would recommend that you start off with his basic ballistic bass drum dvd (I think it is only $30). He does an excellent job of really teaching you the heel toe technique (which eventually will lead to faster single strokes as well as blazing doubles). So, while I have never used the isotonic system, I think you will be just as happy with his basic double bass dvd, and it is a lot cheaper.

I have used Stronsick's system. I'm at 260 bpm because of it. The system is full-proof.

- Marc

[IronCobraPTW]

i dont agree that you need one of those systems or dvds to figure out how to play fast and accurate double bass all you have to do is relax and practice and your speed will come

[Drummerofpain]

i dont agree that you need one of those systems or dvds to figure out how to play fast and accurate double bass all you have to do is relax and practice and your speed will come


THATS what i am taling about ! i began to play the double bass 2 month ago ! and i began to play relaxed! that meens slowly and easy things like
RLRLRLRLR
ore
RLRRLRLL

very slowly and than i began to play faster and faster and i ll become more tempo !

[UVT_Drummer]

Stronsick's system is a VERY in depth explanation of the heel toe technique.

[mr_hayward_99]

when u guys play heel up do you rest the bass drum betters against the drum head or not.

so for instance if you play RRRR LLLL when playing the RRRR is you left beater resting against the drum skin or is it of the skin?

I have been practiceing the killer exercise for about 2 weeks now and my short 16th note rolls are quite fast but my continues 16th note dbl bass drum beats are rubish i can hardly play 100 bpm 16ths any more and about 1/2 mnths ago i got up to 140 bpm 16th. and since then i have still been practicing every day on dbl bass for about an hr
oh weel keep practicing, quite dishartening though

tom

[raf_v]

Hello everybody !!!

i'm a little bit in problems with my double bass.
a few weeks ago a could do 16th notes on 150 beats/minute
but now i can't do some on 120 b/m and a can't find the right seeting hight anymore...

now my question:
IS THE SEETING HIGHT IMPORTANT FOR A DOUBLE BASS DRUMMER?

please answer and otherwise olso thx

drummer will nerver die

raf vertessen

[matt949]

i bleive seeting hight is important for any drummer if you arnt as comfortable one way as the other you wont play as well

[emee]

OK, Step one: Stop caring what brand your pedal is and make friends with it for the next five years, because a new pedal is just an excuse for poor practice habits :)

Step two: If you can't play double kick fast, don't. Slow down and work out exactly what movements you want each foot to do individually. Get that going in a smooth relaxed way, then practice stopping and starting each foot while keeping the other one going. Keep an eye on your movements and make sure you're not "rushing" or tensing up. Keep everything smooth, easy and relaxed.

Step three: Add in a ride cymbal. If you're playing RLRL with the feet, play eighth notes on the ride cymbal - you just need to play the right hand with the right foot. If you can't do this, slow the hell down until you can. It's pretty easy. Again, get it going in a smooth relaxed way and don't try to speed up until it feels like the easiest thing you've ever done in your life.

Step four: Add the snare drum. Still playing slowly, add it in on the two and the four. It will fall in unison with your right foot and right hand, make sure there is no flamming. Again, practice until it sounds tight, feels relaxed and is DEAD EASY. Check the technique on all four limbs with a mirror, make sure everything is still relaxed and smooth.

Step five: Gradually increase the speed. Once you start to tense up or flam notes then stop speeding up. Use a metronome - mark the fastest tempo you can do while fully relaxed.

Repeat this every day, and try to beat your tempo the previous day by 1-2bpm a day. After a month you'll be up to pretty respectable speeds with a four-limbed double kick groove, and it'll be easy as pie.

http://www.mattrittermusic.com/dvd/

[ledzeppelinstoh]

Hey, i was just wondering, my current top speed is like 120-125 16th notes, has any one heard of this joe stronsick isotonik system for double bass drumming??????????? and if so...does it WORK!?
And another question, i heard from a person who posted all over other forums that in order to GET fast u have to PLAY fast, but to the point where you HAVE control but bearly controlling it, and using a double bass workout...as a WORKOUT, and playing to a burn everyday several times a day and you'll be amazed at the results, he said he went from 140 to 210 in almost 2 months by playing to a burn and practicing everyday and keeping it interesting not just zoned out playing 16ths to a metronome u know? but can anyone clear up as to my first question and does the BURNING really work????? thanks -jason

[DrumProgressive]

Ok, i play my iron cobra's for 8 months now i think and i really put alot of effort in technique of playing them. (learning heel-toe atm).
So one day i was practicing some stuff to get my left and right foot play almost the same amount of notes in a not continious double bass beat.
I did this because i noticed i tried to use my left much as much as possible (im a lefty) and just let my right foot pop in for some accents (and of course continious beats).

The not really a specific way of practicing this so i made up as much beats as i could think of that make me use both my feet alot.

So i tought some of you beginning double bass players here might be interested in those grooves and i decided to put them up here. I didn't play the sticking (or footing if you like to call it that ) un the bass notes because u have to figure out for urselfs what i most comfortable for you. U need to get creative with your feet in order to play the beats at a good tempo so have fun.
I sure think they're nice beats and are very usable in songs or anything else.

So here ya go:

(PS: any comment is welcome. i just made these so its possible you guys might find them to easy)

Edit: i noticed the pictures line up a bit odd so for making things clear: they're all 4/4 bars u'll see a litte grey line in between all of them.

[Class A Drummer]

wow that seems pretty cool. i just tapped along as i site read it of course, but im gonna have to try that out on my drums.

[tentpole]

I don't have a double bass (I wish though) but I tried tapping it.

[BrianW]

You really dont need double bass for most of those. Their great to practice heel-toe. Good job.

[Class A Drummer]

You really dont need double bass for most of those. Their great to practice heel-toe. Good job.
yes, but you need to know how to do heel toe... any help on that? im stuck lol.

[TamaReaper]

Hey, i was just wondering, my current top speed is like 120-125 16th notes, has any one heard of this joe stronsick isotonik system for double bass drumming??????????? and if so...does it WORK!?
And another question, i heard from a person who posted all over other forums that in order to GET fast u have to PLAY fast, but to the point where you HAVE control but bearly controlling it, and using a double bass workout...as a WORKOUT, and playing to a burn everyday several times a day and you'll be amazed at the results, he said he went from 140 to 210 in almost 2 months by playing to a burn and practicing everyday and keeping it interesting not just zoned out playing 16ths to a metronome u know? but can anyone clear up as to my first question and does the BURNING really work????? thanks -jason


i would also like to know this haha

[TamaReaper]

OK, ive been playing with double bass for a year and a half now... i can keep it consistant at slow tempos, but i cant do a fast double bass roll..... it kills me, because i see people who are just starting out on drums, do the single stroke roll better than me...


i play heel up... but im not sure about the rest....

****Should i use more leg than foot/ankle????
Where should the beaters be????
How high should my Throne be? ????
what is the most effective technique????
how long have you been playing???? (double bass???)

i really need to know, because its really difficult for me, and i dont know why......
i will take any and alll coments, and suggestions

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Look three inches up from this thread.

[jarrod]

First how fast can you go

second how longf have you been learning

and yes you use your ankels more but that is at higher speeds just practise lots at your slow tempo you will see you speed getting higher slowly. and beater dont do much about speed a good practise is

RRRRLLLL for 2-3 mins then RRRRRRRRLLLLLLLL same time RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLsame time then LRLRLRLRLRLRLRL for the same time.

[emee]

A while ago i posted a comment on double-bass playing... it was about my view and experiences on how to get started for some nice speed as result. I don't think many of you have read it so here is it again:

I've tried to explain it as plain as I could, (because English is not my first language)

This read will take 15 minutes I think !! (what is 15 minutes compared to days of practicing =)

First of all when I say “I can play double-bass” then I mean playing 16th notes continuing for a long period (like it is used in most death metal songs). Because playing those 16th notes at a nice/high speed requires a different technique (for me) then the technique I use for a quick RLR or RLRLR with my double-bass for example. The difference between those two techniques for me and I think for a lot drummers is that with the normally used technique we play a lot/for the most part with our leg and we use its weight(so our whole leg goes up and down and the strength is coming from you upper leg muscles because you lift that part). And on the other hand, with the technique to play those continuing 16th notes I (have to) play a lot more with my ankle, but of course I use my leg also. You have to find the perfect balance between those two. Sitting a bit higher makes it sometimes easier to play with that ankle motion.
OK if you do understand what I am talking about you’re doing a good job =)
But to practice I used a few methods.

In general when you have problems with a foot when you are beginning (for most of the drummers your left one), then compare it to your right. Very often you can “learn” from your right foot.

AND get a metronome (metronomeonline.com)

- First of all I was not capable to accept the rebound of the pedal of my left foot/leg. So it simply didn’t function as my right leg/foot did. I couldn’t play a rhythm with my left foot at the same volume and power of the bass-drum of my right foot. Just put your metronome at a slow speed (80) and play 1 bass-drum every tap of the metronome, then double it, so play 2 kicks every tap(8th notes). Now you are creating some power and control(accepting the rebound) over your left foot. When you are comfortable with that try 90, ok with that? then try 100. I got problems around 120. At 120 it is enough I think. (you are still using your old technique so you play with all the weight of your leg). When you are comfortable with this and you can play stable at 120 on the metronome and play 2 kicks per tap you are doing nice. Also do it with your right foot, you’ll notice that you are probably automatically using more your ankle than your left foot.

B.T.W. when you try to play with 1 bass pedal(right foot) at your fastest speed, then you can probably play pretty fast (you use the ankle motion, a different technique then when you play normal). You can’t cut it to a roll of 6 probably(still with 1 foot), just that max speed is going good for a longer period(maybe not so loud). In the end we want to be able to control that technique, (only a bit different I think), at different speeds and with 2 feet !

OK, so you’re ok now with playing 120 on the metronome with your right and left foot separated. Now put the metronome back to 80 and play again 2 kicks per tap of the metronome (8th notes) with you left foot, then integrate your right foot, then you have the result that you want in the end AT A SLOW…slow speed. Put it to 90, to 100 and maybe to 120. (STILL USING THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF YOUR LEG). When you are comfortable with playing at around 110 with 16th notes so both legs at the same time, your doing a nice job. But there is a limit to this use of the whole weight of your leg. So now we want to integrate that other technique which allows you to play faster, with a lot lesser effort.
Now we are going to use that other technique. Now I will exaggerate it, but then you know what to do. You sit down and put your feet on the pedal, heel on the ground, then put your heels up, higher then you normally do(so almost only your toes are in contact with the pedal). Then play really, really slow, just every second (60) a kick. R L R L, really slow yeah. But you only use your ankle, this means that your knee height is almost at the same level all the time. Just do it really slow. Ok you don’t have to do it @ 80, 90 and 100, because we want play those double-bass faster. Set your metronome @ 120. play RLRL every metronome tap (those 16th notes) Now you can put your heel a bit down and try to get the perfect balance between the use of your ankle and your leg.

OK now stay on your drumthrone, turn 180 degrees, put your feet on the ground and put your heels up, so you are mostly only in touch with the ground with your toes. Then you try to tap 16th notes (you must have done this before =). The strength is also coming from your heel and toes, “pushing” your leg up. The same way you want to do this on the pedal, but on the pedal you have to accept that rebound of the pedal, so try to find that balance between the “pushing” that ankle motion and that leg strength.

When you’re trying to play like this your bass-drums WILL undoubtedly hit your bassdrum head at the same time. This is normal, you don’t have to get back and slow it down to a speed which you are capable of playing this to. At 120 or 140 is ok to practice with. You have to correct yourself every time again and again, so that means don’t continue playing when the beaters are hitting at the same time. You have to force your leg/foot etc… to play that 16th notes correctly. There will be a day it will work, maybe not perfect but you can get it constant and it going nice. (all this practicing should be relaxed, that’s also the way you want to be able to play alike, so no tighten of any muscels which are not needed.) You will tighten some muscles sometime just to try something, or maybe because it is frustrating =) But try not to do it. Maybe you are tend to put your left foot lower on the pedal at first because that’s easier, but try to play the same as your right.

Comment: you have to practice a bit heel down to, like a lot drummers say. Maybe you can’t play very loud, fast of whatever, it just helps you to create those muscles for that other technique.

I played stone stick control exercises with my feet(not even at really high speeds), it’s a very good way to develop that foot coordination, but once you get used to that left foot accepting that rebound of the pedal, I stopped that practicing, because my goal was to play those 16th notes at a nice speed, constant and relaxed.

That day or hour when you have “forced” your legs etc… to play that double-bass at a cool speed, you will be more than happy. Your not capable yet of playing this double-bass very quickly without forcing things or first practicing 5 or more minutes, but that hour will give you energy, strength, power to go on with practicing and above all belief that you can and will play that double-bass correctly in a few months. The satisfaction will be f00king good.

I hope that all of you beginning double-bass players understand my words, and maybe things develop totally different in your situation, but maybe you got only 1 useful thing of knowledge out of this read. And as I said what is a read of 15? minutes compared to days of practice =) And these are my experiences, it’s one way of practicing double-bass you decide what you do with it. And above all double-bass is practicing, practicing, practicing.


C ya !! go practice NOW !



Jeroen

hey, good job... This is really helps me... More practice... and more practice...

Good luck

[crusherdestroyer]

i downloaded some videos off limewire of a guy called derek roddy.... they seem to be shot with a handycam, but he's got this cool practice routine that i've been trying out (well, not exactly the same thing, more like my own tailor-made routine, but inspired by his).....
www.derekroddy.com (http://www.derekroddy.com)

he plays drums for a band called hate eternal, and he's got some FAST feet.... i mean, REAL FAST! hahaha. he's kinda cool, so even if you're not into that music, his ideas are great to build speed and endurance. endurance being the key word here.....
i bought an iron cobra db a month ago and only started practicing seriously last week....
in addition to half an hour of practicing my routine (that's similar to roddy's), i also do some rudiments with my feet and also write out some lengthy grooves with adequate db parts and just play them out.... its kinda helped.....
whatever you do, use a metronome to track your progress......

his feet are very fast... but he also uses those crazy Axis pedals... I've heard when switching over to those they completely ruin the feel for regular pedals. Also he uses an advanced triggering method where the trigger is on the pedal, not the drum head. smart guy.

[Tim Waterson]

i would also like to know this haha
Imho
you Do NOt need to play to a burn.
There is a difference in warming the muscles and burning them..
IF you want top play to a burn a
TO releases LActic acid to help build up muscles.
DO so with caution.
lots of water stretching,proper diet etc,...
Talk to yout DR to see any advice to do this to help build your muscles.
I prefer to focus on my technique which is relaxed and as I develoipe control my speed goes up..
Just my 2 1/2 cents
Tim

[minishee07]

hey guys. for ending a big swing solo, my teacher introduced me to 16th notes w/ the feet, and goin wild on the cymbals on top. he said to start off with the left foot (LRLRLRLR...) because the left usually plays hi hat patterns on the beat. his point is to keep foot technique consistant, so it doesn't get mixed up. it feels more natural to start with the right foot...but does my teacher have a legit point?

[rhythmicpunisher]

One thing that really worked for me was how i played my bass drums. Instead of useing my whole leg for the stroke, I pivot from side to side. This allows me to hit harder longer and faster I learned it from gene hoglan...

[figure_02]

hey guys. for ending a big swing solo, my teacher introduced me to 16th notes w/ the feet, and goin wild on the cymbals on top. he said to start off with the left foot (LRLRLRLR...) because the left usually plays hi hat patterns on the beat. his point is to keep foot technique consistant, so it doesn't get mixed up. it feels more natural to start with the right foot...but does my teacher have a legit point?

Some ppl play it that way, tho I found it uncomfortable and much easier to start with the right. Just check out what is best for you :)

[sloppyn9ne]

A while ago i posted a comment on double-bass playing... it was about my view and experiences on how to get started for some nice speed as result. I don't think many of you have read it so here is it again:

I've tried to explain it as plain as I could, (because English is not my first language)

This read will take 15 minutes I think !! (what is 15 minutes compared to days of practicing =)

First of all when I say “I can play double-bass” then I mean playing 16th notes continuing for a long period (like it is used in most death metal songs). Because playing those 16th notes at a nice/high speed requires a different technique (for me) then the technique I use for a quick RLR or RLRLR with my double-bass for example. The difference between those two techniques for me and I think for a lot drummers is that with the normally used technique we play a lot/for the most part with our leg and we use its weight(so our whole leg goes up and down and the strength is coming from you upper leg muscles because you lift that part). And on the other hand, with the technique to play those continuing 16th notes I (have to) play a lot more with my ankle, but of course I use my leg also. You have to find the perfect balance between those two. Sitting a bit higher makes it sometimes easier to play with that ankle motion.
OK if you do understand what I am talking about you’re doing a good job =)
But to practice I used a few methods.

In general when you have problems with a foot when you are beginning (for most of the drummers your left one), then compare it to your right. Very often you can “learn” from your right foot.

AND get a metronome (metronomeonline.com)

- First of all I was not capable to accept the rebound of the pedal of my left foot/leg. So it simply didn’t function as my right leg/foot did. I couldn’t play a rhythm with my left foot at the same volume and power of the bass-drum of my right foot. Just put your metronome at a slow speed (80) and play 1 bass-drum every tap of the metronome, then double it, so play 2 kicks every tap(8th notes). Now you are creating some power and control(accepting the rebound) over your left foot. When you are comfortable with that try 90, ok with that? then try 100. I got problems around 120. At 120 it is enough I think. (you are still using your old technique so you play with all the weight of your leg). When you are comfortable with this and you can play stable at 120 on the metronome and play 2 kicks per tap you are doing nice. Also do it with your right foot, you’ll notice that you are probably automatically using more your ankle than your left foot.

B.T.W. when you try to play with 1 bass pedal(right foot) at your fastest speed, then you can probably play pretty fast (you use the ankle motion, a different technique then when you play normal). You can’t cut it to a roll of 6 probably(still with 1 foot), just that max speed is going good for a longer period(maybe not so loud). In the end we want to be able to control that technique, (only a bit different I think), at different speeds and with 2 feet !

OK, so you’re ok now with playing 120 on the metronome with your right and left foot separated. Now put the metronome back to 80 and play again 2 kicks per tap of the metronome (8th notes) with you left foot, then integrate your right foot, then you have the result that you want in the end AT A SLOW…slow speed. Put it to 90, to 100 and maybe to 120. (STILL USING THE WHOLE WEIGHT OF YOUR LEG). When you are comfortable with playing at around 110 with 16th notes so both legs at the same time, your doing a nice job. But there is a limit to this use of the whole weight of your leg. So now we want to integrate that other technique which allows you to play faster, with a lot lesser effort.
Now we are going to use that other technique. Now I will exaggerate it, but then you know what to do. You sit down and put your feet on the pedal, heel on the ground, then put your heels up, higher then you normally do(so almost only your toes are in contact with the pedal). Then play really, really slow, just every second (60) a kick. R L R L, really slow yeah. But you only use your ankle, this means that your knee height is almost at the same level all the time. Just do it really slow. Ok you don’t have to do it @ 80, 90 and 100, because we want play those double-bass faster. Set your metronome @ 120. play RLRL every metronome tap (those 16th notes) Now you can put your heel a bit down and try to get the perfect balance between the use of your ankle and your leg.

OK now stay on your drumthrone, turn 180 degrees, put your feet on the ground and put your heels up, so you are mostly only in touch with the ground with your toes. Then you try to tap 16th notes (you must have done this before =). The strength is also coming from your heel and toes, “pushing” your leg up. The same way you want to do this on the pedal, but on the pedal you have to accept that rebound of the pedal, so try to find that balance between the “pushing” that ankle motion and that leg strength.

When you’re trying to play like this your bass-drums WILL undoubtedly hit your bassdrum head at the same time. This is normal, you don’t have to get back and slow it down to a speed which you are capable of playing this to. At 120 or 140 is ok to practice with. You have to correct yourself every time again and again, so that means don’t continue playing when the beaters are hitting at the same time. You have to force your leg/foot etc… to play that 16th notes correctly. There will be a day it will work, maybe not perfect but you can get it constant and it going nice. (all this practicing should be relaxed, that’s also the way you want to be able to play alike, so no tighten of any muscels which are not needed.) You will tighten some muscles sometime just to try something, or maybe because it is frustrating =) But try not to do it. Maybe you are tend to put your left foot lower on the pedal at first because that’s easier, but try to play the same as your right.

Comment: you have to practice a bit heel down to, like a lot drummers say. Maybe you can’t play very loud, fast of whatever, it just helps you to create those muscles for that other technique.

I played stone stick control exercises with my feet(not even at really high speeds), it’s a very good way to develop that foot coordination, but once you get used to that left foot accepting that rebound of the pedal, I stopped that practicing, because my goal was to play those 16th notes at a nice speed, constant and relaxed.

That day or hour when you have “forced” your legs etc… to play that double-bass at a cool speed, you will be more than happy. Your not capable yet of playing this double-bass very quickly without forcing things or first practicing 5 or more minutes, but that hour will give you energy, strength, power to go on with practicing and above all belief that you can and will play that double-bass correctly in a few months. The satisfaction will be f00king good.

I hope that all of you beginning double-bass players understand my words, and maybe things develop totally different in your situation, but maybe you got only 1 useful thing of knowledge out of this read. And as I said what is a read of 15? minutes compared to days of practice =) And these are my experiences, it’s one way of practicing double-bass you decide what you do with it. And above all double-bass is practicing, practicing, practicing.


C ya !! go practice NOW !



Jeroen

im impressed by this. i work on it for half an hour and this morning my feet actaully improved. but my question is how r u supposed to play loud with only moving ur ankle?

[Backwards Marathon]

thanks a lot for the responses they realy helped.

[Vic_Rattledeth]

I never really had a specific way of learning double bass. I just listened to cds and all of their double bass playing and tryed to replicate it, and in time I did. Then I just practiced flams with the double bass and then tryed to replicate everything I do wit my hands. Everything just kind of came together.

[mhdweston]

in my opinion double bass should be something you get ones youve been able to play single pedal well and are decent independence between your feet and hands.

about the building up your speed..
one thing that is always good is set a goal for yourself, like, playing "slave labor" by fear factory was one of mine. after that there are millions of exersices you can do..

for me the one that i used the most my teacher gave me, it helps your speed and your timing. first you start ,with a metrnome by the way, doing quarter notes for two measures. then you double to eighth notes for two measures, then triplets, then sixteenth notes.. as you do this its good to play random soloing on the top with your hands. so your independence gets better and also so you dont get bored. =].
anyways you keep doing this eventually youll be able to add sixtuplets and thirtysecond notes. and then you will know youve made A LOT of progress..

also another one i do, wich i do for my hands as well, is start with triplets for two measures and then do thirtysecond notes. you keep this up with for a few months and youll get speed in no time.

USE A METRONOME!!!!! AND TAKE YOUR TIME SPEED WILL COME BUT ITS NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING!!!!!!

also after youve gained a good amount of speed or can keep a solid beat. try taking all the beats you know and adding random double bass to them..random but still in time, and just mess around with it, use it in your fills..

and just listen to a lot of music.. go to like every double bass video on this site and watch it, like actually study it and see what the drummers are doing.. itll inspire you to come up with new beats and just make you an all around better drummer..

have fun playing and hope this helps somebody
---mario--

p.s.
this is the way i did it, it might not work for you.. also when your playing with a band, blazzing fast double bass isnt the best option.=]. but its always nice knowing you can do it. what im trying to say, is dont over do it most of the time a simple beat its what best fits. so dont try and get all technical.. for that just start a solo.

[sloppyn9ne]

What works for me is actually the oppisite, I play heel up most of the time when playing blast beats and other stuff with constantly rolling bass drums.

I also have a 9002 and I keep my foot right against the toe stop with my heel up and just kind of flik my ankles. Its probobly not the best way egronomically but it sure works for me, no amount of hybrid picking from either of my guitarists can keep up with my bass drum rolls at top speed!

so this is deffantly off topic and i apologize...but
dude i know ur band i used to isten to them all the time on myspace but then acces to a computer was hard. and i used to post bullitens like crazy for you guys. my name is joe, but i really like you guys alot.

[newmrut]

hi i'm wondering how i can achieve the independency to foot and hand which exercies you recommend

[DreamTheater4life]

Hey, i was just wondering, my current top speed is like 120-125 16th notes, has any one heard of this joe stronsick isotonik system for double bass drumming??????????? and if so...does it WORK!?
And another question, i heard from a person who posted all over other forums that in order to GET fast u have to PLAY fast, but to the point where you HAVE control but bearly controlling it, and using a double bass workout...as a WORKOUT, and playing to a burn everyday several times a day and you'll be amazed at the results, he said he went from 140 to 210 in almost 2 months by playing to a burn and practicing everyday and keeping it interesting not just zoned out playing 16ths to a metronome u know? but can anyone clear up as to my first question and does the BURNING really work????? thanks -jason

I heard it's complete crap.

[ness]

i can play about 130 with no problems, but when i try to go faster i cant hold it for very long. about 168 is the fastest i can play and hold for about 30 seconds but i get tired really fast, should i just pratcice more speed or soimething, because i want to go really fast.
and i found that when im pratcicing and im listening to trivium or lamb of god the music pumps me up so i go faster, but i would like to learn to go fast without the music so should i keep listening to it when i play or not?

[figure_02]

What I suggest is to play at 168 at 30 sec/until you get very tired, then take a break and do it again, I can guarantee that you will become faster and will soon be able to play 168 for a long time...then, when ur comfortable with that, just raise the tempo to maybe 175 and do the same thing over again. Doing patterns like paradiddles and double strokes with ur feet will also help.

[Jeff Almeyda]

I just finished reading an article with Jason Bittner and he said that he's not as fast as he used to be on the double kick due to his age.

I have to say that's a load of crap. I'm older than him and I can play faster than ever. Tim Waterson is older than both of us and he's the world record holder!!!

If you rely on muscular strength as the backbone of your technique then of course, you will slow down with age. That's why you need to learn proper techniques and get the work done with half the effort. The faster I go, the less I rely on brute force.

It's like a horse: It has several gaits for several speeds. A horse "switches gears" from a trot to a gallop in order to go faster. If the horse tried to trot fast it would never get too fast and it would be exhausted from the effort.

Above 200 BPM you'd better get some serious technique going or you will always rely on muscles to get you through. You need to switch gears from the big leg muscles over to the ankle muscles. Smaller muscles are faster and deplete you less.

Don't always believe someone is right just because they're famous also.

[Mckinney]

Exactly how i play. I switch gears when i get to a certian spot and use my ankle muscles. The hard part is gradually speeding up and doing that. That takes lots and lots of practice.

[bermuda]

Don't always believe someone is right just because they're famous also.

Experience is the key to credibility, not new-found fame.

With all due respect to Jason, it's not surprising that his views on age are a reflection of his youth. We need only look at our drum heroes in their 50s, 60s & 70s whose speed hasn't suffered due to their age. As far as double bass in particular, players over 40 or 50 are still blowing everyone away. For Jason to think that he's slowing down due to age is kinda naive.

How old is he anyway... 25? 30? 35? Sill youthful, regardless which. Maybe when he's 40 or 45, he can look back from a more experienced perspective and tell us if age truly affected his playing.

Bermuda

[Jeff Almeyda]

Jason Bittner is 36.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Experience is the key to credibility, not new-found fame.

Bermuda

Excellently put! This is what the younger drummers have to understand.

[bermuda]

Jason Bittner is 36.

There is a point where a man's body goes through changes, but not normally that young. In about 10 more years, he may really start to notice some stamina issues and other physiological changes. As I said, he'll be in a much better position then to say how age affects him, than he should be at only 36.

I've only heard of Jason in the last few years... where has he been for the last 15 or so? (Sorry, I've missed whatever articles have been done on him.)

Bermuda

[Raymond Bloom]

It's more about precise technique than muscle speed, look at Joe Morello's and Jim Chapin's hand speed - they are like flying around the drumset!

[centralzeke]

That's total BS. This is why everyone needs to learn GOOD technique.

[Stu_Strib]

Jason Bittner is 36.

He suffers from my ailment. We are both 36 and we both look 25.

I call bull too on the slower at 36 thing. I'm in great shape now, maybe Jason isn't?

[jimmyq]

Dudes, enough about the muscle thing. Jason Bittner deserves our respect. Who cares if he blames age or muscle for his bass drum speed. The fact is, he still kicks some ass. Whose with me?

[brittc89]

Dudes, enough about the muscle thing. Jason Bittner deserves our respect. Who cares if he blames age or muscle for his bass drum speed. The fact is, he still kicks some ass. Whose with me?
Hmmmmm...Im gonna need more convincin than that.

[bermuda]

Dudes, enough about the muscle thing. Jason Bittner deserves our respect. Who cares if he blames age or muscle for his bass drum speed.

I care, because a drummer in a position to influence other drummers should be responsible and accurate about what he says.

I think that he's got the age thing wrong. Yet other drummers will listen to what he said, and it may affect their perspective about drumming and what to do with themselves when they reach their mid-30s. That's kinda unfair to them... no?

36 is not a truning point in a drummer's career. Many of our drumming heroes are in their 50s and older. Heck, a lot of our heroes are DEAD and we still revere them!

So, in keeping with the original point of the thread: a drummer's age does not hamper speed & flexibility. At least not age 36. I'll be 50 in a few months, and I play better, have more flexibility and technique, and more speed than I did at 36.

Bermuda

[finnhiggins]

Heck, a lot of our heroes are DEAD and we still revere them!


In all fairness though Bermuda that probably has slowed their double bass playing down a little...

[jimmyq]

I feel I'm at a level where I should step up my double bass skills. Does anyone know any special techniques to start practicing FLAMS with my feet. I've checked out Virgil Donatti clips but, well, you know! HELP.

[Will-Myster]

Double bass flams are exactly the same as snare flams.
All you have to do its delay one beater (Preferably the beater on the foot that you dont usally use for bass)
Listen to some Pantera, and Killswitch Enage they are full of them.
I got the hang on double kick flams myself.
Hope I helped...



Will

[Tim Waterson]

Experience is the key to credibility, not new-found fame.

With all due respect to Jason, it's not surprising that his views on age are a reflection of his youth. We need only look at our drum heroes in their 50s, 60s & 70s whose speed hasn't suffered due to their age. As far as double bass in particular, players over 40 or 50 are still blowing everyone away. For Jason to think that he's slowing down due to age is kinda naive.

How old is he anyway... 25? 30? 35? Sill youthful, regardless which. Maybe when he's 40 or 45, he can look back from a more experienced perspective and tell us if age truly affected his playing.

knieveldrummer..
did not read the interviwe but I am Shocked.............
I thought Jason was young......LOL
Bermuda
Bermuda good to you see you here.
we are botrh young enough and age has not affected us yet LOL
I think maybe ill repost aclip when I am 88m and see.....
Some drummers use age as an excuse ......
As I get older I get faster..I am 45 and not slowing down..
IMHO If you develope the techniques you will be able to play as fast as you want when you are really OLD take Jim Chapin 88 in a wheelchair and he will still kick most of our asses....
God Bless
Tim

[Latin Groover]

In all fairness though Bermuda that probably has slowed their double bass playing down a little...

LOL, it might have something to do with it.

[tmc]

8< snip snip snip >8

I'll be 50 in a few months, and I play better, have more flexibility and technique, and more speed than I did at 36.

Bermuda

Hey Bermuda.

Rock on, dude! I just turned 50 and I *know* this will be a great decade for me. Slowing down... I don't think so. And I'm still more flexible than most 17 year olds. Probably still have more stamina, too.

-Michael

[Vic_Rattledeth]

Do Flam accents with your feet and do flam taps with your hands ontop of it, it helps your double bass chops and helps your interindependance. It may be a little difficult at first so go really slow, and move it up a little bit faster each day. Also switch the same thing around where it's flam taps with your feet and flam accents with your hands. Another good thing to do is while your doing that at the end of one cycle keep the flam accents going with your feet and play back beats over it. Get creative with it. :]

[XAkitAX]

This is a good technique for beginners through expert its really good for warming up and for beginners to practice
RF=Right Foot
LF=Left Foot
R=Right Hand
L=Left Hand

RF LF R L do that over and over until you get speed

also play rudiments that you would play with your hands like paradiddles play those with your feet and hold 16th notes and such

[Thaum]

Hi,
recently i got my Twin Drum Pedal and i have a question. As it comes to single pedal i feel comfortable playing heel-down and heel-up, so the question is what to build up on the double bass? And does it really matter? Saw maany drummers and all are playing heel-up, and none heel-down, so ... yeah.

[mediocrity]

Well, they can (they can use anything they want). I just dont know how often they would use it.

[Cephalic]

Of course they can. You can do what you want. ;)
Of course, if it doesn't fit...

I do a little double bass thing sometimes using triplets. Three on the bass, three on the hands. I think it sounds pretty cool when I'm pretending to be good at jazz. :D

[Dane]

Louie Bellson pioneered the double bass, so really it was jazz before metal.

[brittc89]

Like somebody said, you can do what you want. Thats jazz...

[Josh is a cult]

if seen a few guys use it at the end of a song to...Jazz, it up a bit...

[jiltednut]

Use everything that u can, otherwise how do u become a truly versed percussionist??

[MOONCHILD]

its sure they can do what they want but how propriate it would be?

[crazydrummer]

Dave Weckl has a double bass !

[h3r3tic]

watch billy cobham´s videos.
I think that they will show you how he can use double bass :)
He´s one of the best, he´s the legend. And just like the other said : "they can use whatever they want".

Peace

[Tim Waterson]

Hi,
recently i got my Twin Drum Pedal and i have a question. As it comes to single pedal i feel comfortable playing heel-down and heel-up, so the question is what to build up on the double bass? And does it really matter? Saw maany drummers and all are playing heel-up, and none heel-down, so ... yeah.
Play whatever technique you are comfortable with
What I do is develope patterns heel down to learn to control them and whaen i want to go faster I simply raise my heels a bit.
ZORO is a master at heel down for single bass JOHN Logstreth from Origin plays heel down and has great double basschops.
THOMAS Lang plays heels down and accents heel up.
experiment and see what works best for you
Tim

[baddrumming]

I have read this forum in detail and have noticed that a lot of questions are coming from guys who are strruggling with up tempo 16th and 32nd notes bass drum patterns.

GUYS you have got to chill down. Do not get disheartened when watching guys like Lang, donati, the guy from cryptoposy (flo somebody) etc. these guys have spent years thats right upwards of ten years getting their feet into shape. Like the hands it requires a lifetime of dedication to reach technical perfection. I am sure that when Tim Waterson started with a double bass pedal he wasn't playing the 260 -270 + bpm 16th notes he can today.

I have been playing the double bass pedal for nearly three years and in my own opinion I stink despite being able to upwards of 210 bpm 16th notes. To me speed is irrelvant because when you reach these speeds and are comfortable playing it you get BORED VERY QUICKLY. Unless you want challenge Tim's frankly ridiculous (sorry Tim but you are the master) record of 1063 single strokes with the feet in 60 secs, in most musical situations speeds of 16th notes at 200 bpm won't be neccessary!!!!! (Except death metal, which lets face it sounds like white noise most of the time). Use your double bass musically, check maybe Vinnie Coliauta, steve gadd, mark Mondesir, dennis chamers, or Marco Minnemann uses the double pedal very tastefully.

Peace

[bobie2000]

i might be wrong, but im pretty sure that it was a jazz drummer who first used two bass drums

[jazzgregg]

i might be wrong, but im pretty sure that it was a jazz drummer who first used two bass drums
You are correct, it was Louie Bellson in the 1950's.

Dave Weckl and Billy Cobham are NOT Jazz drummers.

Ed Thigpen is and has used a double pedal for years. There are some actual Jazz drummers out there who do.

G

[Stu_Strib]

Ed Shaunessey (sp?) plays two big old bass drums.

[Toby_Jackson]

On the question of how "appropriate" double bass would be in jazz, it would depend entirely on the style of jazz, the other players in the band, and the audience. I know several purists who would bust a vein at the mention of using double bass on a traditional jazz gig, and the majority of jazz drummers avoid it like the plague. However, some players with possibly a more open mind will appreciate the unique accents a double bass can provide to the music (especially for quick fills or climactic moments), and it definitely has a place within the modern jazz drumming vocabulary.

So get to know the opinions of those your playing with and pay close attention to the music your playing - you may stumble upon a great moment where bringing in the double bass will light up your bandmates and the audience, and let the music shine that much clearer.

[TPC]

... I know several purists who would bust a vein at the mention of using double bass on a traditional jazz gig, and the majority of jazz drummers avoid it like the plague. ...

count me in this camp.

"jazz" has come to mean almost any music that involves improvisation, and certainly double-bass has a place under that umbrella. but, i believe that the real evolution of "jazz" ended in the early 60's, perhaps even the late 50's, and since then has been wandering aimlessly in the hinterlands. in this context (admittedly, my own narrow opinion), i believe a double-bass is out of place.

[FloEy]

ok so lets say im playing a slow 8th note groove and im playing straight double bass throughout the song, what would you play? Heel up or heel down? Honestly I feel it is impossible to go slow while playing heels up. I havent been playing db for that long but as of now I am working on heel down and I use heels up for speed. I use the flat foot technique for that. For doubles I use heel toe. Is this the method that other drummers use because this is the only thing that really makes sense to me?

[DreamTheater4life]

I've been playing double bass for one year this August. My right foot is at 180 bpm evenly. My left is at 170-175 bpm. I use the flatfoot so I can play these speeds for longer.

[johnhavart]

Dreamtheater4life,

Are the mentionned speeds with 8th notes ? this is my aim for my right foot

As a single (righty) bass player, I wonder when ideally switch to double bass and how ?

[TomasHakkesBrain]

Im trying to do the Gallop double bass beat like the Funeral for a friend song streetcar-Megadeths Devils Island etc-im having trouble with leading with the left foot every other time eg R LRL RLR LRL RLR LRL..

Should i be starting with 2 rights??..

[cdawg_2010]

if you are right footed id try starting with 2 rights

[TomasHakkesBrain]

That seems to work with practise...i guess i would just do the two rights at the end of 8 bars/medium length sequence typically?

[Cephalic]

Why would you lead with your left? That makes no sense. Think of it as 16th notes.

RLRLRLRLRLRLRLRL


Now, just get rid of a few L's...

R RLR RLR RLR RL



Your right foot is now just doing straight 8th notes and the left foot plays every second one. MUCH easier to play than what you're trying to do...



This is how I personally would play it, but I think what I posted above is more logical for most drummers.

L RRL RRL RRL RRL RR

[joeysnare]

hey man i had the same problem with " becoming " by pantera that beat pretty much forces you to lead with your right then left because of the speed of the song


R RLR LR LRL RL LRL

that one drove me nuts but let me tell you i feel ive gotten much better by learning to lead with either foot, just play it slow till your muscles memorize the movement, the rest will fall into place.

[deltadrummer1]

yes, but you need to know how to do heel toe... any help on that? im stuck lol.

There are tons of videos explaining the heel toe technique all over this forum...check them out.

[TomasHakkesBrain]

Playing different grooves over d.b. grooves can help playing d.b. grooves and independence eg 8th then Quarter Notes with the Ride Cymbal while playing a continuous RLRLRLRLRL

Playing the gallop 'maiden style' pattern and changing to straight 8th note d.b. as above i find gives more control

If you have trouble to endurance, a few things i did was put weights on ankles and then take them off after a few hours and the difference is immense. Also try running or a high impact sport which will build your leg muscles.

[belgianvomit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA4Sq...orge%20kollias

This is a video of george kollias from "nile" where he explains that he uses his ancle to play at very high speeds, so he does the motion of heel down but he lifts up his heel a little bit. But if I trie this, its more lik i play flams on the bassdrum can anyone help me. I posted this on other threads and forums and someone said you have to practise it slow but like he said on the video, there are several levels and if you practise slow you do it on level 1. Does it incrase your speed in level 3 ?

PS I'm sorry for the bad enlish

[Chip]

Warning; long post. It's either just me rambling, or finn's long-postedness has rubbed off on me.

Yes, practicing this stuff slow really helps. Try and get it as slow as you can without losing most of the momentum. Start at level one, and just work on it. Don't rush it, this is a key point. Learn good technique, don't learn a bad one and only practice it at high speeds.

I realised last night that my foot does not accept the rebound at all (barely). Luckily, I've only been playing for about 3 years, and haven't focused too drastically on my feet, so it shan't be too hard to correct it. A huge key to success: [B]do not rush speed. Speed comes through relaxation, the notes will sound faster if they are clean, too. Just send a lot of time getting even (haha, "don't get fast, get even" - the speed demon's motto) strokes, clean strokes. Once you get this down well enough, start practicing accents for control etc. Then knock the BPM up a bit.

Don't rush it- your muscles and drumming will thank you for it. I think you will find you will have a lot more fun and find drumming a lot more fun if you are relaxed. Imagine rolling down the kit (or on the bass drum), spreading notes evenly like butter, beautiful even sounding notes, almost effortlessly. Then imagine struggling to belt out uneven, sloppy notes, all tense, at the same speed. Picture this, and then choose which method you would prefer; Rushing and tense, or taking it slowly and relaxed and even.

The reason I'm trying to emphasize this is because I know how hard it can be to resist the temptation of rushing. Just realise that going slow, means you will be cleaner and faster.

I hope that helps.

[belgianvomit]

It's funny, before i read your reaction I just played 16th notes at tempo 100bpm. I think it's an exercise of mangini.

[John McEwen]

One thing i've noticed with my playing is that my left foot doesnt seem to want to keep the beat. it gums up when i go above 120-130 bpm, which is tragically slow. one thing that may affect this is that the spring on my double foot pedal's left mallet spring is not as elastic as the right one. can i buy replacement springs?

[belgianvomit]

You can buy new springs, mine was broke and i got another one.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Warning; long post. It's either just me rambling, or finn's long-postedness has rubbed off on me.

Yes, practicing this stuff slow really helps. Try and get it as slow as you can without losing most of the momentum. Start at level one, and just work on it. Don't rush it, this is a key point. Learn good technique, don't learn a bad one and only practice it at high speeds.

I realised last night that my foot does not accept the rebound at all (barely). Luckily, I've only been playing for about 3 years, and haven't focused too drastically on my feet, so it shan't be too hard to correct it. A huge key to success: [B]do not rush speed. Speed comes through relaxation, the notes will sound faster if they are clean, too. Just send a lot of time getting even (haha, "don't get fast, get even" - the speed demon's motto) strokes, clean strokes. Once you get this down well enough, start practicing accents for control etc. Then knock the BPM up a bit.

Don't rush it- your muscles and drumming will thank you for it. I think you will find you will have a lot more fun and find drumming a lot more fun if you are relaxed. Imagine rolling down the kit (or on the bass drum), spreading notes evenly like butter, beautiful even sounding notes, almost effortlessly. Then imagine struggling to belt out uneven, sloppy notes, all tense, at the same speed. Picture this, and then choose which method you would prefer; Rushing and tense, or taking it slowly and relaxed and even.

The reason I'm trying to emphasize this is because I know how hard it can be to resist the temptation of rushing. Just realise that going slow, means you will be cleaner and faster.

I hope that helps.

Excellent post Chip!!! I practice very slowly for a good portion of my practice time. My feet can fly under control because I paid my dues practicing properly

[Jason Strange]

When I started double bass I was trying to play fast. I did that intell I gave up and just started learning it at slow tempos. Then a guitar player I worked with got me using his metradome. Evey drummer should use a metradome. The sooner the better. I would get pissed when someone sit down and pull out some double bass faster then me when they are not even drummers. But what I learned is that if there was no consistentcy to it. My double bass was slow but in perfect time. I just slowly work my way up. I warm up with a metradome and fallow double bass patterns. And another tip is work on 4s and 8ts and so on. That will force you to improve your speed while staying in time. But remember. Get a metradome. More so if plane on recording double base work.

[belgianvomit]

In the beginning of this thread there are people who say you have to look on the homepage of dave lombardo. I think he updated his site and he deleted those excercises. Is there anyone who has those excercises?

[RudimentalDrummer]

Hi my fellow Bros of DrummerWorld

Rudi had just got a Tama Double Bass Drum Pedal (not Iron Cobra - but a normal one)from his Instructor for just USD31.00 and since his Instructor is leaving for Europe for 6 weeks, Rudi is practicing Double Bass Drum Techniques using Modern Drummer July & Aug Issue article on Double Bass Training - just simple ones and of course - How can Rudi miss this thread - It's informative for me.

Never expect to be into Double Bass - but ....It's really fun and I love it....

[dea]

There is a very simple way to speed up the solidness of your double bass drums. The key is accents and flams. Simple, slow, but well executed double strokes, single triplets, while throwing accents around will strengthen up your double bass chops faster than any method I have tried. Here is a starter.

Triplets ( w/Accents ):
R L R L R L R L R L R L
> > > >
R L R L R L R L R L R L
> > > >
R L R L R L R L R L R L
> > > >
R L R L R L R L R L R L ( very difficult and should be done slowly )
> > > > > > > >

Also. Incorporate flam rudiments. Flam accents work well with double bass. You'll have to check out some music scores for flam accents since writing them out is difficult without notation. However, mix up the accents in flam accents. Other flam excersizes are also good: Flamaques, Flam-d-diddles ( excellent ), Flam Tap, etc. etc. etc.

Good luck!

[dea]

Oh crumb. The accent marks are not centered right. Let me just quickly summarize.

For single stroke triplets. Have the accents on 2. Also try it with accent on 1, and the ever harder 1, and 3. One should be able to extrapolate from here.

Good luck!!!