Doing some market research

[Timekeep69]

I'm thinking about opening a drum shop and I wanted to get opinions from everyone willing to answer me. There are 4 Guitar Centers and a Sam Ash in town but I want to offer a drummer specific store for drummers. Now I'm obviously not going to be able to compete with GC and Sam Ash price wise but I wanted to know if anyone would patron a smaller store with a more personal relationship with the owner and pay a little more or would you just say screw it and go to Guitar Center/Sam Ahs for the savings?

btw, this store would be in Phoenix, AZ.

[Schnitzel]

i'd prefer a drum store cause they usually have a better offer, more finished and a better selection of cymbals!

[tamadrummer132]

i shop at guitar center most of the time partly because there arent any local shops around, and because it is cheaper.

If there was alocal shop, and i could have gotten it cheaper at GC, i would shop at GC.

Relationships dont pay the bills.

[Mapex589]

First of all I want to wish you the best of luck. It is so competitive out there. I prefer to give my money to the local shop here in town vs. the GC. I may pay a few bucks more but to me it worth every penny to have the service on the back end of the purchase. More important I prefer to have the service before the sale and that is what I get at my local drum shop. My local shop will take the time to tell me when something is not worth the money and I appreciate that a lot. Local shop all the way for me. GC is fine but they are not getting a dime from me.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I'd gladly pay more (and do) for going to an independent store. To me, building up a relationship with the sales people and the store owners is more important than paying a little less. I support local retailers and will continue to do so.

[Schnitzel]

... and people who want to get the best price will try it out in a store and order it online anyway!

[Ironcobra]

local store all the way, but you must advertise, you wont get the the nice guys coming into your shop if they only know about the GC.

[Velimor]

Well, I always shop at my local independent store, but there's not really an option since the nearest Guitar Center is about 30-40 minutes away. Still, if the two stores were right next to each other, I'd continue to go to the local store. I mostly just buy sticks and heads from there and their prices are about the same as Guitar Center. Plus, all the workers are really friendly and willing to help and its a very relaxed atmosphere in there.

But man, 4 Guitar Centers AND a Sam Ash. Good luck with your store. If I'm ever in Phoenix, I'll be sure to stop in.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

... and people who want to get the best price will try it out in a store and order it online anyway!

That's just something that I think is utterly, utterly reprehensible.

[mikei]

i shop at guitar center most of the time partly because there arent any local shops around, and because it is cheaper.

If there was alocal shop, and i could have gotten it cheaper at GC, i would shop at GC.

Relationships dont pay the bills.

It would depend on what I am purchasing.

If it were a pair of sticks or drum heads, I might buy it from the smaller store, but only maybe. However, I have found that items at a smaller shop can cost 25 to 75 percent more money. That is not chump change.

I have spent about 5 grand on equipment over the last 2 years and I have gotten my more for my money than I ever thought I could. With what I spent, I got at least 2000 more gear than I could have at a local store. I hate to say it but $2000 is $2000.

I have a local Mom and Pop store about 3 minutes from my house. I usually don't shop there, but I needed to buy a new snare reso head and didn't have a lot of time. Damn head cost me 18 bucks. I could have got it a GC for about 10. GC is about 15 minutes away.

I have developed relationships with the GC sales people and management there. I always get oustanding deals and great service. They all call out my name when I walk in like Norm in the TV sitcom cheers.

I constantly purchase from different places, depending on my wants and needs. I shop a lot at GC - a bit from Music123, Interstate and massmusic on the net - and quite a bit on eBay.

At the end of the day, it is about the money. When you have a wife, children and bills, you need to make every penny count. Every extra penny I spend at the local store to "support them" is a penny taken away from my childrens' college fund.

Relationships do not pay the bills. Great quote!!!

[IDDrummer]

I would pay a bit more, but not a lot more, to be honest. The local store closest to me costs twice as much a GC for most items, and there's no way I'll pay that. 10-15% more I could live with.

One thing I've learned from some local shops I've frequented - your people have GOT to be knowledgeable and honest. I've had people tell me such-and-such an item is the best, or perfectly suited for a given application, or whatever, and I know darn well the reason they sell that item is because they got a good deal from their distributor.

I don't know, I think it's a real uphill battle opening an indie shop. If I'm going to pay more for a drum kit, for example, I want to play it first and compare it to other similar kits. Many independent shops don't have the bucks to maintain a reasonable inventory for that type of shopping. While I sympathize, I can't see spending more to order something I could order just as easily and cheaper online.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

[mikei]

I would pay a bit more, but not a lot more, to be honest. The local store closest to me costs twice as much a GC for most items, and there's no way I'll pay that. 10-15% more I could live with.

One thing I've learned from some local shops I've frequented - your people have GOT to be knowledgeable and honest. I've had people tell me such-and-such an item is the best, or perfectly suited for a given application, or whatever, and I know darn well the reason they sell that item is because they got a good deal from their distributor.

I don't know, I think it's a real uphill battle opening an indie shop. If I'm going to pay more for a drum kit, for example, I want to play it first and compare it to other similar kits. Many independent shops don't have the bucks to maintain a reasonable inventory for that type of shopping. While I sympathize, I can't see spending more to order something I could order just as easily and cheaper online.

Hope this helps. Good luck!
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fourstringdrums]

I would gladly pay alittle bit more to go to a smaller store. I will always take supporting a smaller store and going to a place where they KNOW what it is I'm looking for and will either have it or be able to get it quickly, vs. a large chain store who wouldn't know me from the next customer who walked in the door, who may not be as knowledgable about product they're selling. It wouldn't matter if they had a huge selection AND they were cheaper.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

I buy from the local when I need it now and can't wait. They don't have shipping charges so some money may be saved unless you buy say 99.00 worth when most ship free. But if Corporation A or B can buy 400 of one item at a time and send it to 200 stores they are going to buy it cheaper than Ma and Pa who buy 4 at a time. If they can buy it cheaper then you and I can buy it cheaper. Simple economics.

[Timekeep69]

I plan on doing lessons, clinics, and drum circles as well. I want it to be more than just a store. I want it to be a place where people can come and talk about drums and drumming as well as selling product. I'll also be offering drum repair and refurbishing as well as Medicine Man Custom Drums and possibly other custom drum company drums (if they want) for the high end. NOt to mention I plan to have bands putting their CDs on consignment as well as used instruments on consignment.

That's the plan anyway.

Thanks for the input!

[harryconway]

I plan on doing lessons, clinics.... CDs on consignment as well as used instruments on consignment.

Now you're talkin'. You need to create a scene, I think, if you wanna compete against the "big dogs". You'll wind up livin' at the store, but if you're doin' what you love to do...it's all good.

[Timekeep69]

Now you're talkin'. You need to create a scene, I think, if you wanna compete against the "big dogs". You'll wind up livin' at the store, but if you're doin' what you love to do...it's all good.

I already eat, live, and breathe drums. My family will be there with me so it'll all be good.

[IDDrummer]

I agree - if you're gonna do this, you have to make it a special place to be, a destination of its own. I've thought about a similar idea, but not restricted to drums.

[jangus]

I am a person that will usually take the better deal unless it's a fairly inexpensive product with only a few dollars difference. The ma and pa drum stores that I like and that tend to last are the ones the carry EVERYTHING. You can get make a lot of business by just providing the things that a Guitar Center doesn't have.

[Legacyrik]

That's just something that I think is utterly, utterly reprehensible.

Why??? It's not like he's stealing.. Seems to me times are changing and the locals need to find a way to compete. More online presence perhaps, not sure why more stores don't do that....

[cjl71178]

I've been on both ends of this...I worked in a music store for a few months.

Most of the time when I go shopping, I know what I'm going to buy, but I usually base my dealings with smaller stores vs. "chain" stores on a few things:

1 - sales/staff knowledge & service. i tend to go into stores sometimes just to see what some of these salesguys really know about drums. it really bugs me when i know more than the guy who i might buy something from. i know it sounds cruel...but c'mon.

2 - friendly/comfortable atmosphere. i think this is pretty much self-explanatory.

3 - price & availability - i rank this #3 because it's not very important to me. if a store is out of stock on an item and they have to order it, no biggie. i'm not going to die or not be able to play until the item shows up. i've waited over six months for two Tama Starclassic toms to show up. and if it's a couple dollars more, that's okay.

This is why I've been buying from the same place (www.lidrum.com) since 1999.

Timekeep, I wish you the best of luck. I know that you are up against some competition and I'm not trying to scare you at all.

If I lived in Phoenix, I'd definately be buying from you. Best wishes dude.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Why??? It's not like he's stealing.. Seems to me times are changing and the locals need to find a way to compete. More online presence perhaps, not sure why more stores don't do that....

Well. You waste a sales rep's time and expertise if you do this. It also takes advantage of the store's facilities without any intention to buy. It's simply not fair.

[rjvsmb]

Hey Timekeep69,

Good luck with your business. I think it's great that you are not just going along with the flow and keeping the status quo. We need small business owners to keep balance.

I think you're on the right track by creating a place were drummers and aspiring drummers can go to get gear and be in the culture of drumming. If you provide good service, good product and a positive atmosphere, you will get customers - loyal customers.

I think people are willing to pay a little more for quality. Will you make bunch of money? Who knows? But, every person I know who has succeeded, had passion, drive, knowledge and the balls to take a chance.

The place that I got to offers everything you mentioned for your shop and sponsors clinics. You need to be involved with the drum community and get your name out there. Go to NAMM, go to where the drummers are and network.

I am pulling for you. Hold on and don't let go. When you open up and go online, let us know.

Best,
rjvsmb

[crazyhorse]

Hey you know my feelings on doing your own thing... I'm going up against some of the better known high end guys out there with my own drum shells, etc.

The key is finding your niche and make sure the local area can support the show. The custom stuff that you and I do isn't for everyone. Getting the costs of your own custom drums down is going to be key to supporting the overhead you're bound to have at the store. If you're at the point where you need a location for the drum building anyways, it makes sense to try for the retail side at the same time.

You know I'm here to help ya with supplying some stuff that you don't see every day. (In case you forgot we've exchanged emails a few times about various shells)

-Tim McKenzie
mckenziedrums.com

[mikei]

Well. You waste a sales rep's time and expertise if you do this. It also takes advantage of the store's facilities without any intention to buy. It's simply not fair.


We would have every intention to buy if it were being sold at a competitive price. Mind you, it doesn't need to be the LOWEST, but certainly competitive.

If a store carries the merchandise and it is not priced well enough to sell, then the shop should not have purchased the kit in the first place. If the store chooses to have the kit in the store at a higher price, than they should know that experienced/knowledgeable people wouldn't pay more than the market rate. They have their best shot of selling these kits to newbies who don't know about GC, Sam Ash, or any of the major on-line distributors.

I view it as the store not being fair to me by trying to sell me goods they know I can buy for 50% + cheaper at many other places.

Why is it fair to sell for more money than the kit is worth?

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

We would have every intention to buy if it were being sold at a competitive price. Mind you, it doesn't need to be the LOWEST, but certainly competitive.

If a store carries the merchandise and it is not priced well enough to sell, then the shop should not have purchased the kit in the first place. If the store chooses to have the kit in the store at a higher price, than they should know that experienced/knowledgeable people wouldn't pay more than the market rate. They have their best shot of selling these kits to newbies who don't know about GC, Sam Ash, or any of the major on-line distributors.

I view it as the store not being fair to me by trying to sell me goods they know I can buy for 50% + cheaper at many other places.

Why is it fair to sell for more money than the kit is worth?

Some stores can't stock it at a lower price. Should they even be in business? I believe yes. Why waste their time if you're never going to make a purchase? Surely that will only raise their prices in the long term.

[crazyhorse]

Nothing wrong with making a profit. You don't want to work for free either... Keep in mind real stores have overhead costs.. like the building and people. The difference is that they can be there to help you from a service stand point later. Harder to get that from a website

[mikei]

Some stores can't stock it at a lower price. Should they even be in business? I believe yes. Why waste their time if you're never going to make a purchase? Surely that will only raise their prices in the long term.

I don't believe that most people go into these shops just to test drive kits. They probably walk in, see some beautiful kits, drool a bit and play them a bit. When they see the price, they probably have a minor heart attack and leave the store.

I do believe that they should be in business, but they have to be smart. Either sell product competitively, or stay out of that particular SKU market.

I do agree with you that it is wrong to go to one of these stores to purposely test out a kit with full intent of not buying it there.

But, then it goes back to the owners of these shops knowing that educated buyers won't pay an arm and leg for a kit that should simply cost an arm.

Unfortunately, them being in business is not for you and I to decide. At the end of the day, it is a company's cost Vs sales that determine if they should be in business.

[mikei]

Nothing wrong with making a profit. You don't want to work for free either... Keep in mind real stores have overhead costs.. like the building and people. The difference is that they can be there to help you from a service stand point later. Harder to get that from a website

I bought a kit from Music123. I called on the phone and talked to a very educated sales rep. So although I wasn't there in 'person', I was able to get all my questions answered thoroughly.

So, the major online companies are already staffed with very competent sales people.

[bermuda]

Now I'm obviously not going to be able to compete with GC and Sam Ash price wise...

Quick note about that: box stores don't always have the best prices.

Yes, they run specials, and yes they have exclusive models that they sell at (supposed) deep discounts. But their pricing is normally high, and then a 'discount' might be applied to make the sale seem like a deal.

There's no reason you can't sell heads and cymbals at 50% off, all the time. Cut sticks to a narrow profit, and you'll easily beat GC. You'll make it up in volume.

One thing you'll need to watch for though, is that the cleverer managers at GC will sell stuff for under their cost, just so you won't get the sale. While this takes a little negotiation on the part of the customer, it does happen. But that assumes there's a clever manager around. :)

Other aspects of what makes a small shop great have been mentioned, and special services like overnighting parts give you a real edge over the box stores. Could drummers get stuff overnighted from the online stores? Maybe. Assuming that you can get a live person on the phone, and can trust them to give you a correct answer about whether the part is available (not just look it up in the computer,) and can trust them to actually get it shipped that day. I never take chances - I always call the local shop where I know the guy will have the part in his hand before telling me it'll ship.

Good luck, I'm anxious to see how it all works out!

Bermuda

[ahum]

This may be shocking or repulsive to some of you but...some mom and pop shops are terrible places to buy drums. They know nothing about the product they're selling you, and rip you off with their high prices. A local shop comes to mind (I think it's the one mikei went to). I've seen their sales people talking to customers about sticks and such and they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And I can't help but laugh when I see "100% birch shells" on the label for Gretsch Renown drums that say maple on the badges. And they practically charge full msrp. Just because it's an independent store doesn't mean you're gonna get knowledgable and helpful staff.

And Bermuda's right, Guitar Center's ripping you off if you're paying their tag price. They have "sales" every weekend and give you "discounts" to make you feel special. A local shop is very capable of competing with Guitar Center if they know what they're doing.

[gcarlet]

A lot of retailers in general do the whole "mark it up to mark it down as a sale" thing. I've worked in various retail industries and know this to be the case. The best places I saw were the places that never ran sales at all and had a sticker price that was already the same or lower than the other retailers sale prices.

Now, back on track...

P.J.! Glad to see what you are doing here. My only advice to add on here is to check this out:

http://www.houstonpercussion.com/

That is the local drum shop here in Houston and they have done amazing things in the past 10 years or so. They are definitely a sucess story and could definitely help you out. They do a lot of the things that you mentioned wanting to do. They people are super nice, super knowledgeable, and it's just an awesome place to go.

Good luck!

Greg

[Timekeep69]

Thanks for all of the input. I'm really excited about opening a shop. I've already talked to quite a few companies and have some cool stuff lined up. I'm currently looking for a store front to move into.

I'll keep everyone posted!

Tim...I still plan on ordering shells from you!....just not sure when!

[Drums558]

I plan on doing lessons, clinics, and drum circles as well. I want it to be more than just a store. I want it to be a place where people can come and talk about drums and drumming as well as selling product. I'll also be offering drum repair and refurbishing as well as Medicine Man Custom Drums and possibly other custom drum company drums (if they want) for the high end. NOt to mention I plan to have bands putting their CDs on consignment as well as used instruments on consignment.

That's the plan anyway.

Thanks for the input!

This is the kind of shop I would support 100%. Let us know when you open and keep us posted about your stores events. I could see making a trip ot 2 to Phenoix, plus i've always been curious Medicine Man Drums.

Good Luck,

Mike

[fijjibo]

I'd gladly pay more (and do) for going to an independent store. To me, building up a relationship with the sales people and the store owners is more important than paying a little less. I support local retailers and will continue to do so.

So true.

There are some very good Drum shops in the UK, (as MFB will know) Ive yet to visit more than Three of them, but the "relationship" Ive got with the Local Drum Shop is worth far more to me than any cheap superstore.