Selling my Tama for a small Sonor Force 3007.....??

[Drummer Karl]

Well, today I was in a near music store (with such a great service). I know these guys there and the drum sales man knows me.
I just purchased some hats there and you know, we talked a bit and talked...and then he just said: "Oh yes, I have a great Sonor contact..."
And in this moment I thought about something I would really do with some pleasure:

Selling my Tama Superstar Custom (here are pics of it: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27414) and buying such a smal Sonor Force 3007: http://www.musik-produktiv.de/sonor-force-3007-f3007-jungle-autumn-fade.aspx

Man, I would love it, especially because I am mainly a Jazz drummer. The sound of it impresses...and the sizes would be so great. (but maybe I would take a 18" bass drum)
My friend from the music store has great contact to Sonor...as I said.

There are just two problems: Whether my parents allow that and:

Does this Sonor really come WITHOUT hardware???

What do you think?

Karl

[Ironcobra]

personally i wouldn't go for it, your tama is such a beautiful kit, i would kill myself if i got rid of it. unless you really think the sonor sounds that much better. but ya never know, it might just be worth it if your only playing jazz, but personally it would be a vote for no

[boomboomda]

Brother, you're on your own on this one, but I would definitely go for the 18" bass drum.
Think it through.

[jayp]

Agreed on the BD I have a 2005 birch kit with 22 BD I play jazz and its just a tad to big but it works. But as fas as the trade up goes, thats up to you but I say do it sonors have amazing sound qualities.

But on the flip I love the look of that tama kit, and the lugs are sexy, hows the sound compair to the sonor in your opinion?

[Drummer Karl]

personally i wouldn't go for it, your tama is such a beautiful kit, i would kill myself if i got rid of it. unless you really think the sonor sounds that much better. but ya never know, it might just be worth it if your only playing jazz, but personally it would be a vote for no

mhhh, you know...for example the bass drum is getting too big in the last time. It`s a 22", in the last weeks I just noticed that it doesn`t sound and feel so sensitive and open. Also it is a 5-piece, too much for me. Additionally, Sonor makes so beautiful looking and sounding kits. I also talked to my father a few minutes ago and he said yes IF I don`t make any money loss.

I would do it...but still your opinions are really important for me I think. Also, what do you think about this new Sonor line? And does it come with hardware or not?

thanks alot, I`m nervous right now...

jayp: Yep, a 18" bass drum will do a better job I`m sure. And yeah, I find the Sonor sound much nicer compared to the Superstar, it is much warmer and has more character. Sonor`s overall quality really impresses me.

Karl =)

[hawk9290]

Does this Sonor really come WITHOUT hardware???

I know most Sonor Force sets are sold with the hardware packs, but its not really rare to sell them just as shell packs from what I've seen. I guess it depends on each store though and what they order.

as to the deal, your choice. Personally, quality wise I would look at going to a professional series. Sure there will be a difference in sound between the birch/basswood Superstar and the maple 3007, but I believe the 3007 are Asian maple, which I don't find as nice as North American maple. I suppose it would also matter how much you can sell your Superstar for too.
I do like the jungle style setup though, they're so much fun to play on. And I don't mean to put down the 3007 series, they are great drums for the price. If you aren't going to lose any money on the deal, go for it. If you end up having to shell out some decent cash for the Sonor, then you might want to consider just waiting and getting a true professional kit.

[boomboomda]

mhhh, you know...for example the bass drum is getting too big in the last time. It`s a 22", in the last weeks I just noticed that it doesn`t sound and feel so sensitive and open. Also it is a 5-piece, too much for me. Additionally, Sonor makes so beautiful looking and sounding kits. I also talked to my father a few minutes ago and he said yes IF I don`t make any money loss.

I would do it...but still your opinions are really important for me I think. Also, what do you think about this new Sonor line? And does it come with hardware or not?

thanks alot, I`m nervous right now...

jayp: Yep, a 18" bass drum will do a better job I`m sure. And yeah, I find the Sonor sound much nicer compared to the Superstar, it is much warmer and has more character. Sonor`s overall quality really impresses me.

Karl =)

Looks to me like you are ready to it, I think you get all the hardware to mount the tom on the bass drum, and the legs for the floor tom. What hardware do you think does not come with the set?

[Mr. Brownstone]

The Force 3007 has Asian maple sandwiched in between inner and outer plys of Canadian maple.

[driver]

If I played Jazz i'd sell it and jump for the small tight Sonor. Karl if the Sonor turns out to be more than you can sell your Tama for don't you have some older pro cymbals you don't use anymore? I may be totally wrong but didn't you have AAXs? That could be me dreaming things. It's nice to keep hold of things but a cymbal or 2 could go a long way to paying for it.

[PureRockFury]

but I believe the 3007 are Asian maple, which I don't find as nice as North American maple.

Wrong.

They used 100% Asian maple in the 3005's and earlier. The 3007 have Canadian Rock Maple on the inside and outside plies, with very little Asian Maple in between. The difference from a 3005 and a 3007 in terms of quality of tone, sound, projection, tuning range, and sustain is quite drastic. I wouldn't think it would be until I tried them side by side.

[DrumBuster]

Go for it!!!

If you want a smaller bass drum, better sound, less toms. It makes sense.

[Michael G]

Go for it!!!

If you want a smaller bass drum, better sound, less toms. It makes sense.

You can exclude less toms, that one doesn't make sense.

[jayp]

Hes reffering to Karl's 5 pc. And what I think this guy is reffering to is a Jazz kit witch would commonly be known to be a 4 pc(ex. 1 tom) thus reffering to less toms(not costing him any more cash)

[Michael G]

He can strip a tom of his Tama making it a 4 piece, he doesn't have to buy a set that only comes with one tom to be able to use one tom (rack).

Also I think Karl your set if fine for jazz. I think you are just getting sucked into the jazz stereotype smaller is better. 22" is quite common among well known jazz musicians, and your floor and one of your rack toms is the same size as the Sonor.

The only reason you should go for it, is if it sounds better, meaning try it out in person first.

[Drummer Karl]

Thanks alot for all your opinions! Are really helpful!

SmoothJazz: Yep, you are right that I could just take of one tom to get a Jazz set-up. And you`re also right that 22" bass drums are common in Jazz.
But I`m not getting sucked into this jazz stereotype. It feels much better to play a 4-piece with a small bass drum. A long time I played this 5-piece with greatest pleasure.
I didn`t try this 3007 yet but I played on a 3005 Jungle set and well...it was just a nice feeling, and much more authentic, sensitive, warm...just like I love it.
Just a few days or weeks ago I thought about getting a small Jazz kit when having enough money...but I didn`t remember that I could sell my Tama for such a sweety.
I will still be thinking about it...and saying bye-bye to my Tama will cost some minutes and even some small taers...haha.
But when thinking about feel and sound I would go for this Sonor. And would just do it if there won`t be money loss! I can`t afford to spent more than I simply can.

About the hardware: I mean if it comes with bass pedal, stands, hi-hat machine...does it?

thanks friends.

Karl

[jayp]

I don't know about the 3007 but my 2005 6pc came with 2 booms, 1 pedal, 1 hi-hat

[Drummer Karl]

Mhh, I`ll ask him as soon as I can...as I could read it doesn`T come with stands and pedals.

Er...and I actually want an 18x16" bass drum instead of a 16x16"...is that possible?

Karl

[harryconway]

I would think if the cats at the drum shop say the deal is "sans" hardware, then you are indeed getting a shell pack. Who knows, they might keep the hardware themselves, and sell the pieces as individual. The "jungle" kits have been sold that way (no hardware) in the $650 range. I've also seen adds stating you get a coupon that "get's you 2 free cymbal stands". A drummer bud of mine has the Sonor "jungle" kit. I think he paid close to $1K for it about 5 years ago. Great little kit. He sold his larger Ludwig Classic and "vintage" Rogers and Slingerland kits and kept his Sonor "jungle" kit. He found he was using his Sonor kit the most (of all his acoustic kits).

[CraigG]

[QUOTE= And I don't mean to put down the 3007 series, they are great drums for the price. If you aren't going to lose any money on the deal, go for it. If you end up having to shell out some decent cash for the Sonor, then you might want to consider just waiting and getting a true professional kit.[/QUOTE]

Like Sonor Delites or SQ2's hahahaha. Sound like from some of the threads...we are now becomming maple snobs. Karl, you are a smart guy, I have the confidence that if you think the Sonors sound better, and you can get a sweet deal, you will go for it. IMHO if the kit is maple, birch or playdough, if you like the sound and it meets your needs, then buy it.
Your deal sounds like a shell kit to me. You can always keep your Tama hardware, sell your Tama's as a shell kit and use the Tama hardware with your new kit. Unless of course the Tama hardware police see you doing that.....

[fourstringdrums]

I'd say go for it if that's what you really want to do. I've done similar things myself and am doing them right now. I sold my Yamaha Oak customs for PDP's because I couldn't stand the tone of Oak, and I couldn't afford a higher end Maple kit at the time. At the moment, I'm going to be getting rid of my Maple Renowns for a set of Gretsch Catalina Club Birch. Granted, I'm not selling my kit for that one, I sold some bass gear I wasn't using, but I AM selling the Renowns because I have no need for two kits and I need the money. Even still, some may say that's nuts. MFB proposed I buy a smaller Renown bass drum, which financially won't work because that costs as much as my whole Club Jazz shell pack. Plus I really miss a 14" floor tom with legs, and I'm after that vintage mahogony sound. But, in your situation as Tama Superstar basses aren't so expensive, could you just buy a smaller Superstar bass? 20" is the smallest, have you looked into that?

If that's not really an option, then I say by all means sell it and get what you want. You have to do what makes YOU happy as the drummer.

[fusssion]

Karl,
Hang on their my little "birthday buddy" , I have an idea!! :)

Don't you have another kit also ?? If so, and you're willing to part with it, ....why not sell BOTH kits, and get what you really want ? Instead of ordering a "jungle kit" ...order it piece by piece, w/ hardware! If you can (and are willing) to sell both, you may have enough money to get what you want?

Just a thought, ....good luck!

p.s. GET WHAT "YOU" WANT KARL .......I understand getting the opinions of your piers, but at the end of the day, ...it matters ZERO what they think, right? GET WHAT YOUI WANT!!

Keep us posted!

[Drummer Karl]

But, in your situation as Tama Superstar basses aren't so expensive, could you just buy a smaller Superstar bass? 20" is the smallest, have you looked into that?

If that's not really an option, then I say by all means sell it and get what you want. You have to do what makes YOU happy as the drummer.

Yeah...I already thought about just selling my 22" bass and buying a 20" bass drum. But no, in the end I just love the sound of Sonor so much...and if I`ve got really the opportunity to do it I would. For example I played on that 2003 in school today...and had to retune it...like every week. lol
And wow, although it`s another wood it has this typical character, warm and clear, the result of great Sonor shell quality.

Karl,
Hang on their my little "birthday buddy" , I have an idea!! :)

Don't you have another kit also ?? If so, and you're willing to part with it, ....why not sell BOTH kits, and get what you really want ? Instead of ordering a "jungle kit" ...order it piece by piece, w/ hardware! If you can (and are willing) to sell both, you may have enough money to get what you want?

Just a thought, ....good luck!

p.s. GET WHAT "YOU" WANT KARL .......I understand getting the opinions of your piers, but at the end of the day, ...it matters ZERO what they think, right? GET WHAT YOUI WANT!!

Keep us posted!

Well...that is kinda hard to do. I would have to take this kit with me every rehearshal. So I would set it up at home, practice, then take it with me every time. I just wouldn`t wanna do this to such a great kit then. Also the sizes wouldn`t match up with a Rock band I think. But yeah, generally a good idea. :-)

GREAT NEWS: I called my buddy from the music store again.....aaaand he would probably do it!!! Taking my kit for the money and giving me the Sonor. I wouldn`t make any loss. It`s just like swapping...that would be awesome imho. =)

If everything goes fine I`ll soon have a small Sonor at home. *dreaming*

PS: Well and I know, all that seems crazy but I thought about it carefully and know what I would do there. Your opinions really made me think though.

thanks for everything, if you have opinions on that, please let me know.

Karl

[fourstringdrums]

Congrats on the deal. Is he taking your hardware though?

[TitanSound]

Well done Karl, I cannot wait to hear how you play the little beauty :)

My next kit is probably going to be a 3007 so I would appreciate your feedback when you receive it!

[Raymond Bloom]

Great choice, Karl!

You won't regret it!!

[Drummer Karl]

The deal is "in progress". He said that he wanna see if that deal really works and wanna inform himself about the 3007 a bit...but he found my suggestion okay! I have to talk about many things like the bass drum thing and the hardware/snare problem with him.

SO: Do you know whether it is possible to buy an 18" bass drum instead of a 16"???

Karl

[Schnitzel]

where do you want to sell it?!

[cjl71178]

Cool Karl. Hope all works out for you. Worse case scenario...keep your Tama Hardware if he'll just swap you kits.

[Drummer Karl]

The deal is to give him my Tama kit and I would get the new Force 3007. From the legal side it actually not swapping but it is easier to describe it as swapping you know? =)

If it is just the shell set I would have to keep the hardware of course.

I`ll see...

Karl

[fourstringdrums]

The deal is to give him my Tama kit and I would get the new Force 3007. From the legal side it actually not swapping but it is easier to describe it as swapping you know? =)

If it is just the shell set I would have to keep the hardware of course.

I`ll see...

Karl

So you're not sure yet if you're just giving him the drums or the hardware too?

[Drummer Karl]

So you're not sure yet if you're just giving him the drums or the hardware too?

Yep. Normally I would just get the shell pack...but maybe he can do something...the same with the bass drum, maybe he can arrange getting an 18".

I will go to the store again and will talk with him about those details.

Karl

[TheSteve]

I know for a fact that you're a big fan of Sonor. That kit is really nice and would be great for gigs. Go for it, man.

[Drummer Karl]

Thanks. Here is the version with a deeper floor tom and an 18" bass drum...and not in Autumn Fade. Is such a thing available??

http://www.sonor.com/cgi-sys/Sonor_FE/sonor/deutsch/kategorie.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=896&6zpb-id=nc

I just saw it on Sonor`s site but on no page...mhhh.

Karl

[Schnitzel]

I don't really like Autumn Fade... some Sparkle finish is alot cooler :D
Is there any possibility to order a set directly from Sonor? And where do musicstores order them?

[Drummer Karl]

Yeah, he would order it directly from Sonor company for me...he has a better "relationship".

Mh, for the kit Autumn Fade is my favourite...but if I get a 3007 snare too I would take it in Blue sparkle if possible, I actually don`t like it so much when the snare drum has exactly the same color. But these are just thoughts at the moment, have to talk with him again.

Karl

[crlujan]

You'll be much happier with the 18" bass drum. As for all the people telling you that these jazz sizes are just gimmicks and stuff like that, they don't know what they're talking about. What would they say if we told them that their Bonham kits are ridiculous with those 26" bass drums? I, personally, don't know any jazz drummers out here in the SF Bay Area that use anything bigger than a 20". Most of them use an 18". You know what you're doing.

[Drummer Karl]

Thanks for your opinion!!
I called him again yesterday and he said that he needs a bit time to see if that deal works well for him, too. Obviously he also doesn`t wanna do money loss in the end. Actually it would be okay and if not I`ll give him my 12" HHX splash or so. It will be okay, don`t actually NEED it.

But okay, still two days of hoping, he would do it...but just if it works of course.

PS: A 16" bass drum will be so sweet, too. 16" or 18", I noticed that it doesn`t really matter. Both sizes will work great.

Let`s see... =)

Karl

[byebyepanda]

Can't wait to see those pics of your new sonors ;]

[Drummer Karl]

I hope the deal works. Tomorrow he`ll tell me.
Oh, and what do you think about the Force 3007 or 3005 snare drums? I thought about getting one. I guess it will be warmer sounding than my Tama Superstar Custom and not as aggressive.

What do you think?

Karl

[fijjibo]

KARL!!!!

Just want to share something with you in the hop Im not too late...

You can order a seperate 3007 18" in the same colour from Sonor!!!

But you'll have to sell the 16".

Good luck!!

[Drummer Karl]

Yes I could...well, but that would cost extra money because the 18" is more expencive, or won`t it??

Thanks for the info mate! =)

Karl

[fourstringdrums]

Yes I could...well, but that would cost extra money because the 18" is more expencive, or won`t it??

Thanks for the info mate! =)

Karl

Yeah the 18" would be more expensive, but probably not more than $100 more.

[Drummer Karl]

Yeah...I guess I couldn`t do that. If I pay one more cent my parent would be very angry...also I am not able to pay more.

Karl

[rendezvous_drummer]

Nice man. It's nice to switch things up every now and then. Hope they work out well for you. I'm going to give them sonors another test.

[Michael G]

You'll be much happier with the 18" bass drum. As for all the people telling you that these jazz sizes are just gimmicks and stuff like that, they don't know what they're talking about. What would they say if we told them that their Bonham kits are ridiculous with those 26" bass drums? I, personally, don't know any jazz drummers out here in the SF Bay Area that use anything bigger than a 20". Most of them use an 18". You know what you're doing.

I believe I am the only one who said anything about it, do I come off as a Bonham fan? Besides that comparison was useless, Bonham is a person not a style of music.

[Drummer Karl]

Yes and no. I don`t really like to compare that much or following "rules". There aren`t rules. But yeah, for the kind of music I do a small bass drum will work much better than a 22". For a combo it would be simply a bit too big I noticed.
For example i can`t get this open tone out of it...it is just not resonating enough.
On the other hand, in overall Jazz the bigger sizes aren`t "uncommon".

Oh and these would be the finishes if everything goes out well (though I`m a bit pessemistic that it will):

Here would be the finish of the drums (bass, toms):

http://www.sonor.com/cgi-sys/Sonor_FE/sonor/deutsch/detail_farbe_qf.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=900&a-quicklink-n_artikelid=4397&a-quicklink-n_katfarbeid=915&nkpb-id=nc

and here is the finish for the snare drum (14x5.5"):

http://www.sonor.com/cgi-sys/Sonor_FE/sonor/deutsch/detail_farbe_qf.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=900&a-quicklink-n_artikelid=4404&a-quicklink-n_katfarbeid=915&lbpb-id=nc

If not blue, I would choose:
http://www.sonor.com/cgi-sys/Sonor_FE/sonor/deutsch/detail_farbe_qf.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=900&a-quicklink-n_artikelid=4403&a-quicklink-n_katfarbeid=915&vapb-id=nc

I`ll see what I can do.

What do you think?

Karl

[rendezvous_drummer]

The Blue Sparkle and Autumn Fade is very classy indeed. I would choose between those two, but if there was just white and not white sparkle, I'd myself buy that, but they all look nice. Autumn Fade looks very nice.

[Michael G]

Sure it will work, just look at the classic jazz greats section, plenty of them uses 22" that played in a small combo. For example, Joe Morello played in a quartet with a 22, and it I would actually hate to hear it on a smaller bass drum, alot of parts where he dropped bombs needed that power.

Besides, if you get called to play any other style of music, you won't have to worry about the bass drum size then.

But uh, if you want one go for it. Actually it would be better, because I read your tama is 22 x 16, and that extra 2" ruins it I understand. The 22" x 14 is what I consider the golden size.

Anyway just be sure to post plenty of pics.

[fourstringdrums]

I wouldn't worry about bass size. Mike Clark uses an 18" and he plays funk as well as jazz. I've heard from countless people who play rock and use an 18", that was my basis when deciding to go for the Catalina Jazz kit. I wanted something that would cover the styles that I play most, but also be versatile enough for other things. It's all in tuning and how you play it.

Karl, you're mostly a jazz drummer, so I'd say that 18" would be perfect. Don't let labels and what others may prefer hang you up.

As for color, I'd personally go for the Autmn Fade.

[swiNg]

Yes, you are right, and phil collins has used a 16" for years, and he can be loud. mick fleetwood goes small, and steve smith has a beautiful and powerful sound on his coctailkit.

Go small. but if i was you, Karl, i would go for a 18*14, just becouse it´s more versitile.

keep up your good groove!

/tobbe

[Drummer Karl]

SmoothJazz: You`re right, many used to have a bigger bass drum in a smaller group...but I think that is a personal preference. I love small bass drum and hope that the deal works. And as I said: 16" or 18"...both are fine. As long as it isn`t 14". :-D

And my Tama bass drum is 22x18"...always feels kinda like a bomb. For other gigs like rock gigs and even for some Jazz gigs my Basix with the 20" bass will work so fine. I was really lucky with that 20" bass drum, the more versatile thing in my set-up.

About the color: If everything really works I will definitly choose the shell pack in autumn fade....and the snare drum in blue sparkle. It will be "wild" color mix between fade and sparkle. For some people it would look like a mess, I love those wild kit-snare color variations. I don`t really like to have a snare drum with the exact same color as the rest of the kit.

And hey, thanks for all the small discussions and opinions on that! Thanks guys!

Karl

[byebyepanda]

Karl,

I thought you really like the classy look of white wraps on jazz kits? Haha.

[crlujan]

I believe I am the only one who said anything about it, do I come off as a Bonham fan? Besides that comparison was useless, Bonham is a person not a style of music.

People have been talking unfavorably about small bass drums on other threads on the forum. Trying to say it's a gimmick. Trying to say that the jazz players will buy whatever the drum manufacturers put out that has the word "jazz" stamped on it. It's just not true. Everyone I know who plays jazz out here has a 14X18 bass drum.

As for the Bonham thing, I said "Bonham kits". Which, to me, means the 26" bass drum. People on this forum love those big bass drums. And some people love the little bass drums. That was my point. One size does not fit all.

[Drummer Karl]

Okay.....sooo, had the opportunity to talk with him again.
I told him what I wanna have (Jungle version, snare drum) and yeah, he would do it...but he has to calculate everything again. You know, he just doesn`t wanna extra-pay for it.
And he first has to sell my Tama before he can do it and that won`t be before August. But overall it should work...

So, now the waiting time begins...or I find someone who wanna buy it now so we could also do it now.
If anyone`s interessted about the kit, please PM me about it.

I`ll see... :-)

Karl

[fijjibo]

Well done Karl.

Waiting is the hardest part.......

[ECVail]

Karl -

Best of luck with the waiting. I just went the opposite way from you: from Sonor (3005) to Tama (StarClassic Maple). I have to wait 4 - 6 MONTHS (and had to put down a monster down payment)! It's killing me.

I also agree on the differing snare drum colors. I sold my 3005 - the guy who bought it gets the Sonor when my Tama comes in - so I had to buy a snare to replace the 3005 snare. I went with a Gretsch New Classic in what amounts to a gold sparkle. I think it'll look great with the green sparkle Tama - but wow does it look goofy with my Sonor sunburst now. They're not all that close in color, but enough so that it just looks wrong. Your blue sparkle snare should look great with that autumn fade.

Can't wait to see the new kit!

[Drummer Karl]

Thanks guys...really appreciate your words!!
Yesterday I was on "Documenta Kassel" if you`ve heard of it already...it`s one of the most "important" exhibition for contemporary art.
However, after that I had some free time to check out a 3007 and a 3005 Jungle kit in the music store there. It was truly amazing! Of course it needs some tuning but wow, sound is great and I feel much better on such a small kit. The edges and shells look perfect.
Though I can`t do more exact descriptions of those yet.

Karl

[Drummer Karl]

And here is the "problem":

Just calculated all that and I would have to sell my Tama Superstar shell pack for about 1300 US$. In Germany the full pack with hardware costs about 1495 US$.
So what I have to do is to give away additional stuff to be able to do this deal.

I would give away my 12" HHX splash for free (in great condition) and a Basix steel snare drum, 14x6" I think (with Evans G1 batter, in good condition).

And maybe an 18" Paiste Signature Full Crash, too...(has two cracks, still sounds great though).

Would that be okay?

For the money I could get the Sonor Force 3007 shell pack (16x16" bass, 10x8", 14x12" toms, inc. tom holder) and a Force 3007 14x5.5" Snare drum.

Karl

[fijjibo]

Karl mate, why do need to give all that stuff away?

Surely just some of the stuff you dont use would be enough.


Good luck with the deal.

[Drummer Karl]

But it`s just about 150€ under the store price. For a shell pack? Don`t you think that is a bit too much? I`ll see how much I have to give away...

Karl

[radeq]

defenitely sonor, go for it bro ;) you want regret

[Drummer Karl]

I will definitly do it...and again this little note: If everything goes out well with the deal. lol

Karl

[CWelsh]

Yes, Karl, come to the dark side (said in a very slow, deep voice).

Just kidding, my friend. I think you will love the Sonors. Personally, I haven't heard any of the 2/3007 kits yet, and don't know if there is any significant sound difference over the 2/3005 series. Something you might want to consider to save a bundle of bucks. I don't know about Germany, but there are still a few of the `05 kits floating around at deeply discounted prices. Nice way to get a great kit for much less money.

And, my kit came with hardware. I have seen some advertised that don't, but not that often.

Good luck to you. It will be great to have you as part of the Sonor family.

[Drummer Karl]

haha...thanks.
I really like the 2005/3005 line but I like the Jungle set of the 3007 a bit more. It has a bigger floor tom and it`s shorter. (14x12 instead of 13x13)
I can choose from more colours and the bass drum comes with wood hoops, also the wood has changed a bit (now inner and outer ply canadian maple). All small things but they convince me to take a 07.

I`m looking forward getting those if it goes out well. I feel much better on such a small kit.

Karl