Minimal Bassdrums ??!

[root]

Hey you drummers,

Does anybody know if there is a drum label which sells 16 inch bassdrums (exept the Sonor Jungle Kit)?

Yesterday I saw a great jazz gig and the drummer had a tiny 16" bassdrum, but the sound was absolutely great. And that brought me to an idea: I had looked for a nice jazz kit in the past few months, and found the Mapex Saturn kit to be nice, but for buying it I would have to save a lot of money. Currently I´m playing a Yamaha Beech Custom Set with 22" Bass, 10", 12" and 14" toms and a 14" Maple Custom Absoltue snaredrum, and I love it, but it just doesn´t suit a pianotrio gig, for instance. So I thought that I could use the toms and snare and simply add a jazz bassdrum, and now I´m looking for a 16 inch one, but until now I haven´t found anything else than kickrisers (for 16" or 18" floortoms) or the Jungle Set, and I don´t quite like the sound of either.

So can anyone give me a hint?

greets, abrazos, schönen Gruß, root.

[Ironcobra]

well i think there are other ways of achieving that sound, but going for a 16 inch could have problems, like the height of the beater arm.

[crlujan]

Gretsch sold one of their Vinyard kits a while back with a 16" bass drum. And Canopus offers a 15" bass drum. I think that most of the 16" bass drums you see out there are converted floor toms.

[Velimor]

I'm sure some custom builder could make one for you. Or like crlujan said, they have things that'll convert a tom to a bass. The ones I've seen run about $100.

[Legacyrik]

well i think there are other ways of achieving that sound, but going for a 16 inch could have problems, like the height of the beater arm.

you would have to make a riser for the bass to raise it up for the pedal to work. Or get one of those junior kits which has a special small pedal:)

[rockitman]

For the drums your looking for you'd have to go to a pro shop. I've seen both Yamaha and Gretsch kits in these typ of configurations,specifically for the working lounge drummer. The Gretsch kist had an 16x18 kick that is not a converted floor tom. Shortening the length of your beater should not pose a problem.
I would suggest contacting a drum pro shop specifically. You wont have good results through a regular retailer.

[Mr. Pasquini]

My drum teacher has a 14" Gretsch round badge...

[Wavelength]

The Finnish custom drum builder Kumu makes bass drums from 14" up -- check out their site --> http://www.kumu.fi/english/index_english.html

[root]

Thanks a lot guys for all your answers,

Wavelength, I had look at KUMU drums and woaah the kits look sweet, and I´m sure they sound the same but since I live in Germany I think it will be difficult to test them before buying. Well I´ll think about it. Maybe an 18" will do also, I´m not sure yet. Is KUMU a new brand?

greets, root.

[Wavelength]

Wavelength, I had look at KUMU drums and woaah the kits look sweet, and I´m sure they sound the same but since I live in Germany I think it will be difficult to test them before buying. Well I´ll think about it. Maybe an 18" will do also, I´m not sure yet. Is KUMU a new brand?

Kumu started their business in the late 90's, but the people involved have been building drums and other instruments since the early 80's.

Even if you lived in Finland you might be out of luck trying to test a 16" kick -- each drum is built on order only, and Kumu has a limited array of test kits. However, I have played and listened to a 16" Kumu floor tom converted into a kick drum, and it delivers an unbelievable amount of whoop-ass. Naturally, it will sound great in higher tunings as well.

There are a few Kumu kits in Germany as well, and you might be able to get a test run on one of them (IF you can locate the owners). Kumu's customer page (http://www.kumu.fi/english/customers.html) lists at least three German drummers, so take a look and try to work it out. Kumus are worth the effort, trust me. :)

[fourstringdrums]

Keep in mind that with a bass that small, it's going to be more of a challenge to get that small bass to sound bigger than it is, much like you heard with that jazz drummer. You need to experiment with heads, muffling (unless the gig is unmic'd and then you can get away with none) and especially tuning. I read an article by Billy Ward where he talks about this and he says that you have to tune the drum just so or all the low end goes down the drain. Even a slight keyrod turn too high or too low and you lose it.

[crazyhorse]

Uhhh.. just take a floor tom and find/build a cradle for it... lol

[fourstringdrums]

Uhhh.. just take a floor tom and find/build a cradle for it... lol

Considering how bass drums are sometimes made using more plies than a floor tom, and sometimes have a different bearing edge, might a floor tom used as a bass not be sonically and design wise the same as a purposely made 16" bass drum?

[spartacus1989]

If you get a floor tom with a really strong skin and a bass drum lift, i am dead sure that will do the job nicly. Anyone tried putting a bass drum skin on a floor tom??

(If so can you reply in this thread or Floor Tom With Bass Drum Skin (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=328891#post328891))

[crazyhorse]

The edges aren't all that different... And a thinner shell actually has a LOWER pitch than a thicker one. Bass drums are thicker because they're bigger, that's the only reason. (Well that and some of them support toms as well)

[fourstringdrums]

If you get a floor tom with a really strong skin and a bass drum lift, i am dead sure that will do the job nicly. Anyone tried putting a bass drum skin on a floor tom??

(If so can you reply in this thread or Floor Tom With Bass Drum Skin (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=328891#post328891))

Well define bass drum skin. With the exception of speciality heads like an EMAD, pretty much any head is both made for a tom and a bass drum. Also most designated bass drum heads only go as small at 18", so for a drum smaller than that, you wouldn't be able to use them anyway.

[fourstringdrums]

The edges aren't all that different... And a thinner shell actually has a LOWER pitch than a thicker one. Bass drums are thicker because they're bigger, that's the only reason. (Well that and some of them support toms as well)

Well I guess my question was, if a drum maker was going to make a 16" drum to be used as a tom, and one as a bass, would they use the same amount of plies?

[crazyhorse]

There's no right answer... It's a question of shell thickness, desired tone, and whether or not the shell has to support hardware. Once you get a clear coat on a shell it stiffens up pretty good, plus maple is tough stuff. I've got a 6 ply keller snare drum that I can crank down like crazy and it's fine. Keller uses pretty darn thin plies.

Basically... you can take any 16" tom and flip it over and make a bass out of it without a problem. I wouldn't try putting hardware on it if it's too thin but it'll be fine for a bass.

[kung_f00]

The Manu Katche hipgig has a 16x16 bass drum, and while some drummers will say that philippine mahogany isn't a quality wood, it has the same tonal qualities of vintage kits with a rounder, more controlled bass drum.

I've played a Manu Katche hipgig once, the toms and bass have a very warm sound. The 12x5 snare is nice and poppy, and will project well enough. I'd recommend it, and if I had the spare change handy, I'd gladly drop it to purchase that particular kit.

[billy ward]

Keep in mind that with a bass that small, it's going to be more of a challenge to get that small bass to sound bigger than it is, much like you heard with that jazz drummer. You need to experiment with heads, muffling (unless the gig is unmic'd and then you can get away with none) and especially tuning. I read an article by Billy Ward where he talks about this and he says that you have to tune the drum just so or all the low end goes down the drain. Even a slight keyrod turn too high or too low and you lose it.

Yes. This is true! One slight chaange and it all goes down the drain! :D this comment was made in reference to my 16" DW bass drum.
but there's another way to go...

I wanted a bass drum that would be very hip hop (with maybe a possiblility of playing jazz).
I bought a cheap children's kit from Manny's or Sam Ash (don't remember) here in New York for 120 USD. I threw all the other drums away. put old leedy lugs on the bass drum and new spurs (thus, no rattling!). this sucker is always in my studio. Ready to go... sounds a whole lot like the Roland 808 bass drum sample. It loves the Shure SM57. A three thousand dollar mic is not as good as this ol' 57. anyway... just a thought! You don't have to go all boutique to get something good sometimes!
This drum does what it does and nothing more. but it is pretty unique. I just did a track for a record (again) with it at my studio last week. Evans G2s on each side BTW with just a teeny amount of foam rubber touching each head. No hole in the reso side.

[billy ward]

I think I forgot to mention that it is a 14" bass drum. !!!!! yeah, baby!!!

[fourstringdrums]

Yes. This is true! One slight chaange and it all goes down the drain! :D this comment was made in reference to my 16" DW bass drum.
but there's another way to go...

I wanted a bass drum that would be very hip hop (with maybe a possiblility of playing jazz).
I bought a cheap children's kit from Manny's or Sam Ash (don't remember) here in New York for 120 USD. I threw all the other drums away. put old leedy lugs on the bass drum and new spurs (thus, no rattling!). this sucker is always in my studio. Ready to go... sounds a whole lot like the Roland 808 bass drum sample. It loves the Shure SM57. A three thousand dollar mic is not as good as this ol' 57. anyway... just a thought! You don't have to go all boutique to get something good sometimes!
This drum does what it does and nothing more. but it is pretty unique. I just did a track for a record (again) with it at my studio last week. Evans G2s on each side BTW with just a teeny amount of foam rubber touching each head. No hole in the reso side.

Wow your ears must have been burning, huh Billy? :) The part I quoted you on I was just reading from your article in the November (I think) 2004 issue of MD. The "In-depth Bass Drum" issue. I've actually been meaning to talk you about smaller bass drums. I'm getting a set with an 18" next week and I wanted some advice. I'll either post a discussion about it over on your forum or contact you. Not sure what I want to ask yet :)

[Drummer Karl]

I like Billy`s idea.
And I can say that I have the same problem root. At the moment I play also kit with 22" bass, 10, 12, 14" toms. I just noticed that the bass drum feels too "sledgehammer" lol, as you said...it`s nothin for small trios or so.

I wanna buy the Jungle set...with an 16" bass drum, love it more and more.
Though, if you don`t like the Jungle set, look out for a 16" floor tom. This you could put on such a drum converter. (http://www.drumshack.co.uk/uploads/images_products/728.jpg)
Also I have to add that those small bass drums can of course sound wonderfully open and high-pitched, then again they can sound very low and fat...bigger than they`re. But I agree that it would be a bit difficult to do this.

PS: I think that Gretsch makes a Catalina Club version with a 16" bass drum.

Karl

[BoxcarDrummer182]

you could get a 16" floor tom, and turn it into a bass, thats what my drum instructor did and i saw one of his gigs. coolest sounding bass ever. deffinetly something to try.

[Mendozart]

I finally picked up a riser for my 16x18 floor tom/bass drum. It's definitely got some punch, I just need to figure what head to put on it.

[fourstringdrums]

PS: I think that Gretsch makes a Catalina Club version with a 16" bass drum.

Karl

They did on older models, but no more. They only have the 14x18 bass now.

Indoor Storm's website has sound samples of the Catalina Jazz and I think the 18" sounds very full and punchy for its size (mouse over each drum) http://www.indoorstorm.com/product_media.php?products_id=3751&media_id=67295

They have the Sonor Force 3007 Jungle Kit too http://www.indoorstorm.com/product_media.php?products_id=3707&media_id=64003

Granted, how they recorded it makes a difference, but I'm impressed wth the Catalina regardless.

That being said, it's sitting on my porch, I just have to go get dressed and get it :)

[fijjibo]

Id like a second (maybe 18") bass drum for jazz.....

I can just order it from Mapex though, so no big issue there.

[Garvin]

You can find 16" bass drums from the following companies and websites.

Sonor, Yamaha, Gretsch, GMS, Groove Percussion, and Canopus (15") just off the top of my head. I would seriously reccommend checking the folowing link as wellhttp://www.drummersworld.com/dsp/product.php?id=04a6bfb6ead604b8496041d34993f769&prodid=311&catid=85&catname=Drumsets&prodname=DRUMMERS%20WORLD%20MINI%20NESTING%20KIT&flag=0

This is my primary jazz kit, but I use the 18" configuration. These are awesome custom sets at an extremely reasonable price if you can wait a month for them to build it.