70's Black Beauty Hoops

[willem36]

Hi guys,
I have a late 70's Ludwig Black Beauty and I was wondering if the hoops were chrome over brass. Someone has any info about that?

[dea]

I also own a late 70s, possibly 1980 Ludwig Black Beauty and I don't know either. Teehee... I can tell you that I am the original owner and have kept it intact. Is there something I could look at on the snare that will tell me? I've never looked. I never cared. Now I'm curious? Is there a particular reason why your trying to determine this characteristic?

[willem36]

The reason is that I want to change the hoops because they are rusty (I just got the BB from a trade). I have been told that back in the 60's, Ludwig hoops were COB. In the 70's, they might have been chrome over steel. The only way to know is to scratch one hoop.
I have also heard that COB hoops may improved the sound (rimshot!). I'm confused...Brass hoops on a brass snare, could it be too much? Steel on brass a good combination? Would it really change the sound?

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

While I'm not entirely sure, I think most, if not all, of Ludwig's Rims by the 1970's were chrome over steel. It has been my experience that the Rims they used in the 70's were pretty thin, something like 1.6mm, which does have a distinct bearing on the shell's ability to resonate. If your shell is Brass, which usually has a darker sound than the Lud-Alloy (aluminum alloy) shells, you may want to keep this in mind when choosing the thickness of your replacements......................

LVDC

[willem36]

Thanks for the info. I als o have a 60's Supraphonic and I put a magnet on the rim and doesn't stick so it is COB. The magnet does stick on the black beauty rim so it is COS!
And to get back to your point, same thickness! So, do you think a COB rim whith the same thickness could let the shell resonate with giving it a better rimshot sound at the same time?

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

So, do you think a COB rim whith the same thickness could let the shell resonate with giving it a better rimshot sound at the same time?

What is better to one may not be better to another and considering it's been many years since I have regularly used a Supra with COB Rims I'll let someone else give that question a shot, rimshot that is...............

This winter I may try some tests with all aspects being equal, same heads, rim thickness, tuning, etc. and will switch back & forth between different Rims to see what I come up with, just out of curiousity. I do know that with all things being equal that the thinner Rims Ludwig used to use does seem to give a Snare, or Tom for that matter, a more open, or resonant sound, especially when compared to the 2.3mm Rims...............

According to the current Ludwig Replacement Parts List they now only offer either 1.9 or 2.3mm COS Rims for the Supra so when I wanted to get some COB replacements I had to go elsewhere. I am still waiting on the COB's to arrive but even after they get here it'll be awhile before I can get around to using them since I am right smack in the middle of reconditioning one Ludwig Outfit (12,13,14,16 & 22) and have another (12,13,16 & 22,) from 1971, waiting on deck. That's why I figure it'll be winter before I have any free time to "goof around" with side projects and know that your question will stick in my mind until then because you now have me wondering how much of a difference, if any, there may be between the two types of metal Rims............

LVDC

[willem36]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, that was very helpfull! I think I'm gonna try to find COS vintage Ludwig hoops for the Black Beauty...that's the way it was made by the people at Ludwig, after all! Anyway, I'll stay put and will be very interested to see what comes out of your experimentations.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Your'e more than welcome willem, sorry I couldn't have been of more help...........

There is a lot of knowledge on this site so you may still find the answers you seek.........

Good Luck!
LVDC

[Les Ismore]

Use a MAGNET If you have brass hoops the magnet will tell you. Same if your unsure about a shell.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

I als o have a 60's Supraphonic and I put a magnet on the rim and doesn't stick so it is COB. The magnet does stick on the black beauty rim so it is COS!

He done did that.................

LVDC