Mic sets+Sweet 16... Decisions...

[groovemaster_flex]

Okey dokes.
So, I've got a choice to make.
My sweet 16 is coming up, and my parents said they'd get me a set of mics for my drum kit as long as they were under $400 Canadian. If they were over, they'd give me the 400 Canadian, and I could put in the rest of the money to get the set of mics.

We went to Long&Mcquade and the salesman showed us 4 sets of mics.

Shure, include 3 SM57 mikes, Beta52A, and ran for about $500.

Audio-Technica, runs for about $500 Canadian. Includes 3 MB5k mics, 2 MB4k condenser mics, and a MB6k for the kick. I've heard that the kick mic needs replacing, but I think it'll do for a little bit.

AKG, not sure how much this one was... big number. Included 1 D112 mic, 4 C418 mics, and 2 C1000 condenser mics.

And finally. Apex. I'd never even heard about this company until now. Apparently they're the more affordable version of Shure? Anyways. It was like... $400. Come with an Apex125 kickdrum mic, 3 Apex126 tom/snare mics, and 2 Apex190 condenser mics.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go for the Audio-Technica, As it's inexpensive, decent, and includes everything I need to record, except the mike stands for the condenser mics. Case and mounts included for all the sets. But this company Apex caught my attention. I'm not quite sure if I should go with it or not. If it's a good enough company to make Shure and AKG worry, do you think it's worth taking a look at? I think the salesman may have been trying to get rid of it, cause he had a HUGE pile of Apex mics in the back room. But, at $400 for the whole set? Should I take a gamble and go with that? Or just go with the Audio-Technica mike set?

[rendezvous_drummer]

I would go for either the AKG or the Shure's myself. I heard the beta is good and that the AKG C1000 mics are good condensors. I'm looking for mics myself, and due to a shortage of funds, will have to settle for a mic package.

[hawk9290]

go with the names you know you can trust- its not worth skimping on microphones.
As much as I like Shure mics, they are pricey unless you are a pro. Of course, they are pricey for a reason- they are some very good mics, quality and durable.
If you can find the Shure PG 6 piece mic pack and throw on an SM57, that would be a good deal too.
That AKG pack is the best of the ones you listed, but its price will be extremely steep, and that puts it in the same boat as the more expensive Shure mics.
The Audiotechnica set isn't bad- for the price it will get the job done for you. I haven't had any bad experiences with anything from them, and their mics have held up well for me.

[JIM_fear]

The Shure package is a good one, but keep in mind that you will need to buy some good condensers which will probably cost you another $150-200. But 500 cad seems a little high. That's about 460 usd, and I've seen them going for 350 usd brand new on ebay. I would check ebay before you purchase a set of mics because they have some killer deals.

The AKG package is good as well, and the Audio-Technica package is servicable. They are decent mics especially if you are on a budget.

I wouldn't pay that much for Apex mics. They are basically on the level of CAD and Samson meaning you aren't going to get great sound out of these mics. If you aren't looking for anything special, than go with the cheaper CAD and Samson mics instead of the Apex'.

Unless you want to save up for awhile, the Audio-Technica mics are your best bet.

Do you already have everything else though? Mixer, audio interface, xlr cables, stands, etc.

[fijjibo]

I think the Shure is a good set, as SM57's are versatile, and when your not recording drums, you can use them for almost anything.

[Wavelength]

When buying recording equipment you should never go for quantity over quality. A set consisting of a good kick mic, a good snare mic and a good overhead will be the most versatile and easy to use, and you'll never have to replace a bad sounding mic for a better one.

Personally, I'd go for a Beta 52, an SM57 and any good condenser mic I could afford. I might also ditch the snare mic altogether and get an even better overhead. If it worked for Bonham...

[hawk9290]

of course Jimmy Page on Led Zep's recordings would use 16+ mics for a 5 piece kit- room mics, overheads, 2 snare, 3 kick, toms, etc...
I would recommend 2 C1000 overheads, 1 SM57 snare, 1 Beta 52 kick if you're in that game.

[groovemaster_flex]

I've already got an 8-channel mixer, 2 telescopic boom stands, and each of the packs comes with all the cables and and clips.

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna go with the Audio-Technica, as I heard some samples comparing the Shure and the A-T and personally didn't hear all that great of a difference. Although the kick for the A-T really lacked the "Oomph" that the Shure kick-mic gave. I'll replace the A-T mic later with an AKG, if I decide to go that route. I've still got 3 months to make the decision though.

[d.c.drummer]

When buying recording equipment you should never go for quantity over quality. A set consisting of a good kick mic, a good snare mic and a good overhead will be the most versatile and easy to use, and you'll never have to replace a bad sounding mic for a better one.

Personally, I'd go for a Beta 52, an SM57 and any good condenser mic I could afford. I might also ditch the snare mic altogether and get an even better overhead. If it worked for Bonham...


I completly agree. As a sound guy, its advantageous to go for the quality. My church only uses a bass and a very good overhead and while it could use a snare mic, it is otherwise perfect. Oh yeah, and mu church uses AKG's for instraments and Shure Beta 58's for voice.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Can you only use 1 condensor mic and get a good mix? Say with the AKG C 1000?

[Wavelength]

Can you only use 1 condensor mic and get a good mix? Say with the AKG C 1000?

Yes. I've played and listened to dozens of gigs in which just a Beta 52 and an AKG C1000 were used. If the drummer knows what he's doing, the kit is going to sound really good.

EDIT: Or, if you meant using JUST a condenser... the answer is still yes, at least in the studio. You won't get that close-miked "modern" sound but rather a natural, acoustic sound, so make sure your drums are allowed to sing. In live situations it might not work as well, since you're getting a lot of extra stage noise in it.

[JIM_fear]

Yes. I've played and listened to dozens of gigs in which just a Beta 52 and an AKG C1000 were used. If the drummer knows what he's doing, the kit is going to sound really good.

EDIT: Or, if you meant using JUST a condenser... the answer is still yes, at least in the studio. You won't get that close-miked "modern" sound but rather a natural, acoustic sound, so make sure your drums are allowed to sing. In live situations it might not work as well, since you're getting a lot of extra stage noise in it.

Using just a condenser for an entire kit is a little iffy imo. I find the bass is little too low in the mix with one condenser and a bass mic takes care of that. It really depends on the position of the mic but it's tough to encompass the entire kit with just one mic. But is definitely has been done with good results, especially back in the day when they used to use a single condenser to record an entire band. Certain music may call for that warm classic sound and that would be a nice option.

That being said, I agree with using one condenser if necessary. I've heard some great mixes with just a condenser, bass mic, and perhaps a snare mic along with proper tuning.

It's much better to go with a nice condenser and bass mic than a 7 piece CAD or Samson mic package. One is going to give you a nice recording and the other will just disappoint.

[iamtak]

getting two overheads is gonna be nicer, cause you can record in stereo.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

Using just a condenser for an entire kit is a little iffy imo. I find the bass is little too low in the mix with one condenser and a bass mic takes care of that. It really depends on the position of the mic but it's tough to encompass the entire kit with just one mic. .

I've found the best place for a single large diaphragm condenser (if that's all I am using) is a few to several feet in front of the kit, about level with the top of the kick hoop. If you tune your kit to sound good out in front, that is a great spot. The mic will be low enough to the ground to get enough boom from the kick. That's usually what I do when my band wants to record quick demos.

getting two overheads is gonna be nicer, cause you can record in stereo.

Unless you have a large kit (5+ pieces), I would say start with a mono OH and learn what you can do with that before you throw another mic into the mix. The option to record stereo OH is nice, but not always necessary.

I typically use a single mono overhead in omni. I will probably go to a spaced omni overhead stereo pair though since my kit has recently gotten a little bigger. I haven't done any recordings with it yet to experiment but I think I'll need 2 OHs to get the sound I want.

[ermghoti]

of course Jimmy Page on Led Zep's recordings would use 16+ mics for a 5 piece kit- room mics, overheads, 2 snare, 3 kick, toms, etc..

I wasn't aware that Jimmy Page played drums in Led Zeppelin. OTOH, Bonham's recording's were all done with two or three mikes.

Anyway, based on your budget nd such, I'd go with three mics. The easier route is single OH, which works fine. Try something like the CAD M179, SP B1, or maybe go all kooky with one of the Nady or Apex ribbons. Put a 57 on the snare, and your choice of B52, D112, D6, or AT250 (or the discontinued ATM25) on kick. You will coincidentally have a nice vocal/acoustic mic, a good guitar cab mic, and a nice bass cab mic.

If you have to have stereo, or you'll break out in a rash, either drop the 57 and double up on condensors (at your budget, you'd be in Studio Projects B1 territory), or add a pair of Naiant Studio mics. Don't let the price fool you, I have heard good work done with these. They aren't as tolerant of untuned rooms though.

[hawk9290]

I wasn't aware that Jimmy Page played drums in Led Zeppelin. OTOH, Bonham's recording's were all done with two or three mikes.


lol, I was talking about Page's production techniques. Somewhat right about the 2-3 mics (don't know what I was thinking before- bad day skews the mind...)- they heavily used room mics to get that treasured, demo-like sound, so I guess I wouldn't say they were really drum mics, but still they had quite a few channels with the drums present on them. Thats why I love room mics. I usually place my condensors off in the room instead of overhead unless I'm really looking for the close-mic'd sound.

[groovemaster_flex]

So an SM57, a C1000, and... what for a bass mic?
AKG?
What would that retail at?

[JIM_fear]

So an SM57, a C1000, and... what for a bass mic?
AKG?
What would that retail at?

$500 USD w/ an AKG D112. It would be around the same price with a different bass mic, such as the Beta 52 or Audix D6.

Check the prices on Ebay because I know you can find everything cheaper. There are alot of good deals out there.

And like ermghoti said, you can use these mics for a lot of other purposes besides just drum mics. If you track one instrument at a time you can record a whole band with just those 3 mics.

[groovemaster_flex]

Sweet deal.
Thanks guys (Y)
I think I know what I'm gonna do.

[ermghoti]

I'd suggest something other than the C1000. They do get decent word-of-mouth on OH, but for nearly everything else, they are considered shrill. In fact, where you are not close-micing toms, they will probably over-accentuate the cymbals. The CAD M179 is less than the C1000 (depending on who runs what sale or free gear offer), and far more versatile.

[JIM_fear]

I've used a C100 as an overhead without any tom mics and it worked perfectly. It's all about positioning. A CAD overhead isn't in the same league as a C1000 imo. I've used a C1000 to mic string instruments and it's done a wonderful job. Besides, he wouldn't need to use it to mic guitars and bass. An SM57 and a Beta 52 will get the job done in that area. If he wants to go for a cheaper CAD overhead, then that's his decision, but you get what you pay for, especially when it comes to pro-audio.

[ermghoti]

I can't argue, I use AT4050's for OH's most of the time, and stopped looking for now. I can say that on recording-intensive discussion boards, where people have used both the CAD and the AKG, few recommend the C1000. I often see it and the C3000 called some really bad names, these are not the mics that have made AKG its name. I think you are not the first person who has had decent luck with it on strings, though.

[JIM_fear]

To tell you the truth, I've only used C1000s as drum overheads once or twice. I much prefer a pair Oktava MK012s and that's what I use most of the time. The little experience I've had with CAD mics hasn't been good, but I haven't tried many of their offerings.The AT4050 is definitely a great mic as well and a nice choice but that might be out of his price range.

[ermghoti]

A 4050 would eat his whole budget! The 012's are a real good choice, have you Dorsey modded them? There were a few floating around used for the $100 area, might be good for the OP.

I would still lean towards a LDC, it would give a legit vocal option when demo time comes. MF is blowing out the single-pattern M177 for $70. Since some guys prefer the M179 on toms to 421's, I might give these suckers a whirl.

If your previous experience with CAD involved one of their drum kits or something, I can fully appreciate your disdain for the line. They have dished out some truly weak stuff.

[JIM_fear]

Yeah, I did the dorsey mod a few months ago. It was pretty cheap and I think it made a difference. They sound warmer with less distortion and fuzz. I believe they offer more clarity now especially when mic'ing acoustic guitars and such. I was close to sending them off to OktavaMod but I just chose to the dorsey mod instead. I've heard that the QC issues that they had before have been mostly resolved and that the mods aren't really needed with the newer models.

I haven't tried any of CADs large diaphragm offerings so I really can't comment on them but that's really interesting. Some people actually prefer CADs to Sennheisers. I love the sound of 421s so I may have to try them. I personally use e604s on toms for home recordings and I love them.

Hmmm... I may have to look into some of CADs mics. But their drum mics are crap imo. At least the ones I've tried.

[n2xlr8n]

I hope this is helpful....

I've used Shure, AKG, etc.

I recently purchased the Audix DP-5A (from GC, $575 out the door) which includes:


* One i5 snare mic
* Two D-2 tom mics
* One D-4 floor tom mic
* One D-6 kick drum mic
* Four D-Vice gooseneck clips
* Heavy-duty aluminum road case

Just as folks have stated on this forum, the D-6 ROCKS. I found that while we had to find a optimum position for the Shure and AKG, the Audix was happy 3" from the beater, 3" outside the resonant, or 3" inside the resonant, depending on the type of sound you prefer.

The I-5 sounded at least as good as a SM-57. It seems to have more bottom-end.

The D-2 are wonderful, especially because I prefer a smaller sized tom mic.

The D-4 was mistakenly placed on my kick, and it still sounded pretty darn good.

Good luck with your search!

SRJ