making a living playing in a band full time

[drummingman]

what do you all think about being able to play in a band full time and make a living? do you believe that it can or cant be done? what drummers do you know of that are playing full time and doing well?
i believe that it can be done and that there are a lot of drummers doing it.
i posted this topic on another drumming fourm and have gotten tons of stuff like "it cant be done" and " do something else besides drumming full time because you cant make a living doing it" but i just dont buy that.im posting this here to see what everybodys viewpoint is on the subject.
i want to play in a metal band full time at some point.i know that things wont always be easy but im will to put in the work and time to make that happen.
so, what do you think?

[harryconway]

Think about "making a living playing drums", and don't confine yourself to just "being a drummer in a metal band and making it big".

[chuzwazza]

hey man, im trying to do the same thing, because im only 19 so im trying while im still young. although im trying to work also to back myself up. and if the time comes i can quite working-i certainly will! the only thing holding me up is the rest of the band- im afraid this will always be a problem for anyone who wants to do it, you will need a band who want the same as you. I know a drummer who get paid well doing gigs with his band, on the side he teaches drums and works at a music shop- and hes doing very well. no matter what, ill always be playing drums wheather it makes me money or not. so my best advice is to find band members who want the same thing, anyway, good luck!

[jazzin']

Think about "making a living playing drums", and don't confine yourself to just "being a drummer in a metal band and making it big".

Absolutely, you'll probably find it can't be done or would be very difficult to make a decent living in a metal band. Unless you get famous and even then it can be very hard, metal does not have a large enough fan base to be able to play full time unless you're one of the big bands doing the tours and festivals etc.

If you want to make a living you can't limit yourself so much. Look into function bands (playing weddings, small events etc) and other type of gigging situations. Music is a hard industry and you must have a lot of options to be able to make it. Think outside the square more. Look at different options than just metal gigs. You'll find it to be very, very hard. That's not to say impossible though. Just keep your options open. Good luck.

Note: Read Jazzsnobs article link in the thread 'my band just got a record deal'.

[drummingman]

Absolutely, you'll probably find it can't be done or would be very difficult to make a decent living in a metal band. Unless you get famous and even then it can be very hard, metal does not have a large enough fan base to be able to play full time unless you're one of the big bands doing the tours and festivals etc.

If you want to make a living you can't limit yourself so much. Look into function bands (playing weddings, small events etc) and other type of gigging situations. Music is a hard industry and you must have a lot of options to be able to make it. Think outside the square more. Look at different options than just metal gigs. You'll find it to be very, very hard. That's not to say impossible though. Just keep your options open. Good luck.
im glad you said " not impossible though". i have been trying to beat that into the heads of people on another fourm. hard yes, impossible no.
that said i do play other styles. i just am working towards making the metal band the full time thing. i think it just takes time and hard work and it can be done.
i really have a never give up never quit attitude about this. and its funny how much resistance you get from people when you have that attitude. it seems that if they could not do it they are the first to try and drag you down. but thats life in any area from what i can tell.

[d.c.drummer]

Always have a fall back. There are alot of bands who you know and love who took like 15 years to be noticed. in that time, if you dont like food out of a trash bin or crappy drum gear, I would have a job. You could go to music school and learn how to teach and then go to Nashville to be a session drummer you could make it playing drums for a living.

[drummingman]

does anyone know of any good books on making a living being a musician? also, any books that are good on the music business that are up to date would be great as well. im looking fir books in both areas that are up to date because of how the internet is such a huge thing now when it comes to music i want books that are going to be good for years.

[ahum]

If you want to make a living off of music, particularly off of being in a band, you have to be ready to work harder than you've ever worked before, and be prepared to make absolutely no money at first, in fact you'll probably lose a lot of money. And, you have to find other people who are willing to do the same. It's not an easy thing at all; believe me, I've been there. There are a lucky few who make it big, but success comes to the rest of us with lots and lots of hard work. I can't remember any specific books that I've read on the business, but there are good ones out there, so just search for them.

[caprisun3484]

i don't know if you can support yourself off one metal band you might want to join more if you want to making a living of drumming

[ermghoti]

im glad you said " not impossible though". i have been trying to beat that into the heads of people on another fourm. hard yes, impossible no.

The other forum is closer to right than you are. You're getting off to an extremely late start, in a business where maybe 25-50 people in the world are making a living (metal drumming). Reflect deeply on that number: 50. You might be better off aiming to be a pro baseball catcher, several hundred of them are making a living at it. How's your arm?

Setting aside your skill level entirely, where exactly are you planning on finding a metal band that will move enough product for everybody to move out of the van down by the river? Is your local scene producing so many signed, successful (the two terms are not synonymous) metal acts that you feel that you have decent chance of jumping on one? I'd suspect not. I live in Boston. The closest thing I can think of for a successful metal act locally in the last ten or so years are Godsmack, who are marginally metal, and probably made far less money than you might suspect. I vaguely remember some other semi-successful band, but probably not anybody currently making a living at it.

If you're intention is to make a living at drumming, your options are one or more of the following: become a studio/session player, an instructor, or put together a wedding/GB/cover/tribute act. The odds are still slender, and any of those gigs will require a ton of work, and a high level of skill and or talent. Compared to trying to break into a field only slightly less competitive than the astronaut program, however, it's a reasonable goal.

[Class A Drummer]

im guessing 98% of the forum would love to make a living off playing drums in a band or drumming in general. Im sure i would.

But it is so unlikely so i think its important to secure your future by getting a good education. I play on trying to get a good job, but also try to find a good band to play with, and if they band makes it big, i guess i would take time off from my normal job.

[Butch Axsmith]

I have maid a living playing the drums
for the past 50 yrs. It can be done ////
Butch Axsmith

[drummingman]

tell that to the guys at the derekroddy.com fourm. because they just refuse to believe that a person can make a good living playing drums for a career. i have been arguing with them about it for a week now. expeciaslly when it comes to being a fuill time drummer in an extreme metal band and doing well in that context. they just believe that you cant do it, snd i highly disagree.

[jonescrusher]

tell that to the guys at the derekroddy.com fourm. because they just refuse to believe that a person can make a good living playing drums for a career. i have been arguing with them about it for a week now. expeciaslly when it comes to being a fuill time drummer in an extreme metal band and doing well in that context. they just believe that you cant do it, snd i highly disagree.


drummingman, you also have to be realistic and weigh up the probabilities; given your age, you are starting out rather late - how many bands are you in; how far down the line have you got? Label interest? Tours? Not to put a downer on it, but limiting your horizons just to an extreme metal band makes your chance very very unlikely. Diversify or fail. Sorry :(

[harryconway]

Really, who cares what guys "on another forum" think. Why should anyone "here" talk to anyone "there". That does not serve any purpose. Go out and "do it", as the Nike ad says. Actions speak louder that words. But you seem to be hearing only what you want to hear from the 2 people who are making a living "playing drums". Diversity. You keep reverting back to being in a metal band. And that means you're putting all your eggs in one basket, hoping the talent of the other guys involved + yours will propel you to success. Where as anp27 states here "However, it will be kinda tough if you want to play only in a metal band.. I suggest playing other types of music as well, that way you have more oppurtunities to make money. Actually, that's what I'm doing (or have done).. I play in so many different musical situations.. hotel lounges, bars, club, orchestras, weddings, live TV/radio, functions, concerts, festivals etc.. because of that, I need to be able to play many many different genres of music, pop, rock, jazz, dixieland, traditional folk music, classical etc.. and also it helps that I can read music, so I can also cover the recording sessions, musicals, ec.. The key about being able to make a living by playing drums or being a freelancer is to be as versatile and adaptable as you can possibly be. You can also teach drums on the side, sort of like a 'back up', when their aren't too many gigs going on." How many metal bands in your area are playing lounges, bars, clubs, with orchestras, weddings, etc.? I'll state again, think about "making a living playing drums". If you happen to be drumming in a metal band, or 2, or 3, that's cool, because that is obviously where your heart is musically. But you're gonna have to be a slut, and a versatile one one at that. A good gig is any gig that pays.

[duff64]

Ahh...memories (insert Barbara Striesand tune) .....scattered pictures lol!!


I'll go back to 1985-1989. Four years of traveling,truck stops,a few 4 star hotels & free bar tabs at various clubs. We were four 20 something musicians trying to make a living ...Fast forward to 2007....I am the proud father of a 10 year old son . I still play actively with my current band ...weekends mostly ..an occasional outta town gig (for a price) ...Seems to me a lot of musicians end up in radio ....me included ..lol!!

[drummingman]

drummingman, you also have to be realistic and weigh up the probabilities; given your age, you are starting out rather late - how many bands are you in; how far down the line have you got? Label interest? Tours? Not to put a downer on it, but limiting your horizons just to an extreme metal band makes your chance very very unlikely. Diversify or fail. Sorry :(

well, take a look at the guys in lamb of god. ther are not spring chickens and they are doing it.
i really think that age does not matter that much when it comes to playing in a metal band full time.
i do agree that also playing in other bands is a good idea until your main band takes off to where that can be your only band.

[jonescrusher]

well, take a look at the guys in lamb of god. ther are not spring chickens and they are doing it.
i really think that age does not matter that much when it comes to playing in a metal band full time.
i do agree that also playing in other bands is a good idea until your main band takes off to where that can be your only band.


True, age will be less of an issue in a metal band than in rock or pop, but only if your band writes has the sound and material to make it. This the all important factor. If you sound like every other band going, you won't get noticed.

[drummingman]

the trick is finding a way to incorporate all of your influences but still sound original. im still working on that one. any tips?

[ermghoti]

The trick is to buy a van, and find a nice spot down by the river. Or just rent Decline and Fall of Western Civilization Pt 2, and explain why you are different from the Skunk Hair Guy. The fact that zero people have agreed that your plan (metal drums + ? = profit!) is a viable one, has not deterred you in the least, which speaks volumes for your capacity for self-delusion.

If you, for some reason, thought my first post was pessimistic and/or blunt, you couldn't be more wrong. My actual feelings on the matter are: you will fail. You have chosen an impossible path, roughly equivelant to a dream of financial success through lottery winnings. You will join the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of other people who willingly throw away years from their lives pursuing a non-existant goal. Hopefully, reality will slap you hard enough, and soon enough, that you have time to do something constructive with your life. Otherwise, you can join the ranks of all those funny old guys you see with rediciulously dated clothes and hair lounging around at Guitar Center and boring the salesmaen with their tales of bar gigs thirty years ago.

[Steady Freddy]

Hey my friend,

A lot of good advice on this thread and some incredibly negative crap as well. Like some of the others have said, try to be a flexible as possible. Metal won't be around forever.

Sometimes you just have to go for it. Don't fear failure. Fear not trying.

There may come a point when you realize you're beating your head against the wall. When that time comes you may have to make some hard choices, but until that time, take a run at it. Some guys do make it. Just look at the roster of pro drummer on DW. They made it.

It's a tough industry to be sure, but it can be rewarding. I got out in my late twenties. I saw the writing on the wall and decided it was time. That said, I heard myself on the radio, played some really big stages, and had experiences that most will never have. I have no regrets. I was a little behind getting my first job at 29 years old, but in the end it all worked out.

I own a home, have a family, own two cars, and a lot of drums. I don't feel that I wasted any of those years. They were friggin great! When I quit, I quit completely. I probably should have kept playing on a casual basis.

Hey, I'm back at it again. You only live once. Do it like you mean it!

Good luck!

[jonescrusher]

The trick is to buy a van, and find a nice spot down by the river. Or just rent Decline and Fall of Western Civilization Pt 2, and explain why you are different from the Skunk Hair Guy. The fact that zero people have agreed that your plan (metal drums + ? = profit!) is a viable one, has not deterred you in the least, which speaks volumes for your capacity for self-delusion.

If you, for some reason, thought my first post was pessimistic and/or blunt, you couldn't be more wrong. My actual feelings on the matter are: you will fail. You have chosen an impossible path, roughly equivelant to a dream of financial success through lottery winnings. You will join the tens, if not hundreds of thousands of other people who willingly throw away years from their lives pursuing a non-existant goal. Hopefully, reality will slap you hard enough, and soon enough, that you have time to do something constructive with your life. Otherwise, you can join the ranks of all those funny old guys you see with rediciulously dated clothes and hair lounging around at Guitar Center and boring the salesmaen with their tales of bar gigs thirty years ago.

Damn, you're cynical! I guess something happened in your past that abruptly crushed all your hopes and dreams. How can this path be impossible? Music is still an industry that requires new people. It's true that success in making it in a band is based more on luck than talent, but that doesn't mean that hard work and total dedication to a dream can't get you some of the way. Trying to make it in a band does require the dedication that may involve missing out on other things in life, but if you've persued a dream but failed at least you won't die with the regret as to what may have been.

I wish drummingman all the more luck, just in case he does find success so he can wave it in ermghoti's un-trying face.

[ermghoti]

Damn, you're cynical!

Or a realist. I've watched supremely talented, hard-working acts fade into the sunset for my entire adult life. That's across the musical spectrum, let alone the miniscule niche of extreme metal, which represents a fraction of a percent of overall music sales. Heck, since high-school I've watched wannabee athletes destroy their futures pursuing a 1:1000 shot at a pro sports career. At least some of them got free college out of the deal. Most, however, are pumping gas somewhere.

I guess something happened in your past that abruptly crushed all your hopes and dreams. How can this path be impossible?

My hopes and dreams were crushed gradually, not abruptly. If you read my posts, you will se exactly what I mean by "impossible," (which is a tiny hyperbole) and you will find no grounds whatsoever to contradict me.

Trying to make it in a band does require the dedication that may involve missing out on other things in life, but if you've persued a dream but failed at least you won't die with the regret as to what may have been.

Oh, so very wrong, and exactly why I am even bothering to post. When you've wasted your youth on a fool's errand, with virtually no chance of success, you know something about regret that those of us who took a more sensible tack will never experience. Watching MTV at 40 with a house full of kids and a pot belly, wondering what the big stage would have been like, beats the hell out of living in a studio apartment in a basement at the same age, wishing you had gotten a real job twenty years earlier.

I wish drummingman all the more luck, just in case he does find success so he can wave it in ermghoti's un-trying face.

Good luck to him, he can feel free to wave whatever he wants. Fact is, if he wants to make a career out of drumming, he can, just like others here have told him. If he persists in tilting at windmills trying to get Rod Torkildsen's Armada off the ground, he will fail. If he wants to promote a band while making reasonable steps towards a general career in music, he will have something to fall back on when he finally is ready to admit his band is going nowhere. He may even be pleased with how things finally come out. I certainly hope so, there are plenty of miserable people in the world already.

So, how many bands have made it big enough to set themselves up for life from your town in the last 20 years? How many have tried?

[jonescrusher]

Of course, it can't be denied that the chances are slim in making it, especially if you limit your options. You're probably right in making clear that its 'nearly' impossible to make it happen. Not everyone's lives will pan out in the way you've experienced things. Chances are there to be taken, especially when you're young.

[delta]

After just glancing at this thread, I'll have to say I at least agree somewhat with ermghoti's last post.

I think too many young people (I'm in my mid-20s) see all these bands rise to fame and fortune and think it's easy. Rarely does anyone ever pay attention to the more-talented-yet-never-quite-make it bands who try just as hard as anyone else yet still fail. No one ever wants to hear the failures, only the success stories. It's so wonderfully romantic to think that even if you devoted your all and didn't "make it", you at least tried and will have NO regrets. Then the reality of the cost of living kicks in. The mass population smile at young people with these 1 in a million dreams and say "Go for it!", but when the same people look at an aging musician, the thinking is "Tsk tsk he must've have sucked. Oh well". It's a terrible thing to mock someone and say "you just didn't want it enough" or look down on them if they didn't go balls to the wall on their hopes and dreams

People say follow your dream. Now I'm not one to discourage that and can empathize. I too will say do what you love, but within REASON. Some people LOVE to sit on their fat asses all day and eat double chocolate fudge ice cream with sprinkles. If you do end up following a high risk dream as "making it big" as a musician, you damn well better be smart about it if failing to achieve your "dream" can leave you broke. Have a backup, like a solid college degree or something. You don't want to get old and bitter and end up working at Guitar Center calling the incoming teenagers "brother" and "dude" to be hip. I would love nothing more than to be a "rock star", but I'm not going to put all my eggs into one basket perse. I'm not totally devoted and am a pansy you say?? Whatever. I'm as big a dreamer and romantic as the next young musician, but I also have a down-to-earth streak about me that realizes that life isn't all peaches and cream. $h1t happens. Life's not fair. I'm glad I got a college education. Hopefully one day I will get into a band I really like and I'll quit my day job to do it full time. But if it doesn't work out, I like to think I could jump back into my career that pays well.

[ermghoti]

Of course, it can't be denied that the chances are slim in making it, especially if you limit your options. You're probably right in making clear that its 'nearly' impossible to make it happen. Not everyone's lives will pan out in the way you've experienced things. Chances are there to be taken, especially when you're young.

OK, I'm not picking on you, but there's a couple things I'm not really making clear. I'm all for taking chances, following a dream, living what you love, etc. The problems here are A: this particular goal is absurdly lofty, and B: there is some evidence the OP is not well-suited to pursue it. I have made the first point pretty clear, so I'll expand upon the second.

We have a guy looking for one part of the Internet to go tell another part that his utterly unplanned master strategy for success is valid. More importantly, he is expressing a fatal degree of delusion, evidenced by his partial reading of the responses here.

\m/ Posts: I plan to join a cryptoblackmathmetalcore band, and TOTALLY MAEK IT!!1!!one!

DW Responds: Um, you could, but you'd do better learning a variety of skills, styles and techniques, joining several bands, and maybe think of playing in a GB band. That will give you a better chance of earning a sustainable living. Even at that, it will be tough to make enough to pay for insurance, plan for retirement, and whatnot. It is a real long shot to hope to sustain yourself in a metal band with no back-up, that's for sure.

\m/ Reads: bla you blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabl ablablablablablablablablablabla will blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabl abla make blablablablablablablablablabla It blablablablablablablablablablablablablablablablabl abla, that's for sure.

This degree of unwillingness to face reality will hurt his ability to succeed in an original band. "The soundman says there's no room on stage for my 37 piece kit, but it's part of my metal image! He just doesn't get it!" "The recording engineer won't put my kicks high enough in the mix, so I'll record the band myself!" "The local radio stations won't play our demo, we'll blackball them when we're world famous!" And so on. He has recieved good advice here, even outside my turbo-pessmism, but he doesn't like it, so he interprets it as "you go girl!" Ergo, I'd guess as the band encounters friction (ie. anything less that instant worldwide fame) they will look everywhere but within for the problem. Recipe for disaster.

As you say, the time to take chances is when you're young. If somebody wants to write a novel, or start a business or even take a run at putting a band together, great. But he isn't that young, and the chances are up there with running across a highway with your eyes closed, and he can't see that. If he had read the above posts and said "oh, you guys all agree, so I'll look into what you've suggested," I'd have been done with the thread after my first post.

[jonescrusher]

I agree with all of that, and to that extent I can see why you say what you say to drummingman. I've echoed the same advice earlier in the thread. I haven't heard any of his playing, and don't even know whether he's in a band at all at the moment. Given his age, I assume that he will have some understanding of the difficulties involved. Maybe i'm wrong there.

[PLaN-Z]

OK for all you people being negative. Your posts actually make me really angry. Your just upset because you didn't "Make it" and your bitter about it and want to spread your misery around to the rest of the people trying to "Make it". Don't you believe in God? Do you not think everything happens for a reason? I know for sure that I am going to play drums for a living whether im famous or not im playing drums and none of you can tell me otherwise! Also for the guy who said "who in your town has tryed to make it big and who has succeeded?" or along the lines of that. I know a guy (not personally) but I see him walk around my town. The town is Enfield, Nova Scotia, Canada. Population: Around 5000 Look up Classified, he may not be a drummer but he is a rapper and he may not be very famous, but he is well known, I see his videos on MuchMusic. In one of his songs he says " I'm not that rich off of this rap sh*t but I still have a big house" or something like that. Also, if anyone here likes hockey, Sidney Crosby lives in Enfield also, but he is from a suburb of Halifax about 20 minutes away from here. Bubbles from the Trailer Park Boys lives about 5 minutes away (car).

[ermghoti]

Your town has produced a sub-obscure rapper (who doubtlessly already owes more than he will ever make to his recording company) a pro athlete moved there, and a marginal actor lives in the general area. Wonderful. Everybody drop out of high school, you can be famous any time you want!

Who said you can't play drums for a living? Everybody who has responded to this thread, including me, has said that you can, if you have reasonable definitions of "make a living" and "playing drums," and work like crazy at it. What is being debated is whether planning on making a living as a drummer in an extreme metal band (let alone some sort of music that is actually popular) is valid, or simply wishful thinking. The answer to that question should be obvious.

[PLaN-Z]

What is success to you?Success to me is when your doing something you love and CAN make a living off of it. Which Classified does so he IS successful. Besides, Class owns his own production label HalfLife Records. Here in Canada, there is thing called VIDEOFACT and they give artists money to make music videos he has made like 7 music videos already. Classified also opened up for artists such as Ludacris and Busta Rhymes and Blackmoon.Classified is my hero, don't disrespect.My drum teacher's old teacher used to play with Joe Morello and drummed for pianists Denny Zeitlin and Vince Guaraldi.This town is full of talent, you have never seen my buddy play the guitar either, he is so good and hes only been playing 2 years!

[jonescrusher]

planz - read all the posts before saying stuff like this; you clearly aren't aware of drummingmans particular situation. And anyway, what's God got to do with this? Or making it as a musician?

[jazzsnob]

Anyone planning on starting a career in music might be helped by reading the essay Jazzin' mentioned(google search "steve albini the problem with music") and also "The Future of Music" by Dave Kusek. I hate to suggest this all the time, but it's a crazy time to be 19 starting a music career these days and the industry is changing A LOT.

Very exciting time to start a career in music. The key to being succussful is not going to be exchanged freely over the internet though. You're going to, you know, come up with something.



(here's a piece of advice though that's helped me a lot, get used to living on less than 700$ a month)

[Flamacue]

OK for all you people being negative. Your posts actually make me really angry. Your just upset because you didn't "Make it" and your bitter about it and want to spread your misery around to the rest of the people trying to "Make it". Don't you believe in God? Do you not think everything happens for a reason? I know for sure that I am going to play drums for a living whether im famous or not im playing drums and none of you can tell me otherwise!


The best analogy I ever heard was when a guy was talking about up-and-coming basketball stars in HS and College, and their chances of actually playing professional ball in the NBA…there’s something (at the time) like 300+ players in the NBA, both starters and standby players…and a few hundred thousand of these talented kids trying to get into the club. Odds are slim, even with bionic skilz, that you’ll get there. Now there are far more successful professional drummers out there then NBA players, but you get the point of the analogy...

Of course no one is trying to discourage anyone, just trying to point out the hardships of the dedication it takes to get there. You’re young, don’t take this kind of advice personal, just take it to heart that many have tried what you intend to, so don’t be alarmed when the road gets tougher then you expected.

[PineyplayParadiddles]

what do you all think about being able to play in a band full time and make a living? do you believe that it can or cant be done? what drummers do you know of that are playing full time and doing well?
i believe that it can be done and that there are a lot of drummers doing it.
i posted this topic on another drumming fourm and have gotten tons of stuff like "it cant be done" and " do something else besides drumming full time because you cant make a living doing it" but i just dont buy that.im posting this here to see what everybodys viewpoint is on the subject.
i want to play in a metal band full time at some point.i know that things wont always be easy but im will to put in the work and time to make that happen.
so, what do you think?

Of course you can earn a living, I mean there are session musicians out there that make a living from playing full time. If thats what you want to do, then you can.

[zambizzi]

Very interesting thread, indeed. I've asked similar questions on here before and have gotten a lot of good advice. I see a little bit of bitterness and cynicism here but mostly good insights.

I'm not a career musician but my dad was, for almost 40 yrs...he was a jazz drummer...and this isn't bias talking...he was damn good and well respected by his peers. However the music business was a little different then (40's, 50's, 60's, & 70's). He dropped out of school at 16 to start touring w/ a big band and didn't stop until the 70's, when he slowed down and did more session work than anything. He didn't get riches and fame but that wasn't his goal...he just wanted to do what he loved. The stories he used to tell were priceless, anyhow.

His longetivity in the business was due to versatility...he'd play anything he was given and even though he had a distaste for rock music, he went w/ the flow and played rock when called to.

Anyhow, the point is; most folks in here are right - you're definitely limiting your career (and personal) potential by sticking to one very niche genre of music. I can't see a ultra death metal drummer getting calls to do a lot of session work if he's unable to tone it down and play for the song he's handed. What about weddings? Think about all the various ways a drummer (or any musician) finds regular work - you have to adapt to those market conditions in this industry...just like you would in any chosen industry.

I too one day hope to make a living from drumming...even though I have a good career now. I think diversity, good teachers, constant practice, and professionalism are some things that will get me there eventually. It seems like the right path, so far.

[drummingman]

the way i see it is that if you dont give up on your dream of what you want you will be successful. yes it might be hard to make it in a metal band, but so what. im still gonna work my butt off to make a living playing the metal i love. if things are hard so what, life is hard and you deal with it. you just work harder and make good choices and do your best.
look at all the bands that are doing it. if they would have listened to people like ermghoti they would hve gotten nowhere. and there are a ton of people like you man that are just so negative that you wont even try, but im not one of them.
i also play other styles and am willing to play in other bands until my metal band gets to where i can live off it full time. its about not giving up. and age really does not matter in my opinion. so you can only take risks and dream if you are young? what crap!!!
it makes me sad to see it when people become so jaded and bitter ( and call it realism ) that they have to drag everyone around them down because they are either too afraid or too lazy to try to make something that is hard work. spare me your "realism" and negativity and cant get anywhere attitude. the truth is you dont have the guts to do what you really want because you are afraid to take risks, or your to lazy to put in the work, or a hundred other excuses, so you settle for something lesser. that might work for you but not me. i say all this to those that have been negative.
to those of you that have given good advice and optimism and that great thing called hope i think you for your support.
here is a great quote by walt disney " if you can dream it, you can do it". the reason why he changed the world is because he really believed that. it goes to show that just because things are hard, even for years, you dont give up. thats how you because successful at anything.

[jonescrusher]

That's all great drummingman, but part of never giving up on a dream is being prepared to live an impoverished life in material terms and be relaxed about watching your peers settle into a more comfortable way of life. What are you minimum expectations in terms of living standards? What are your experiences of life on the road? Can you put up with the boredom, uncertainty and rejection that the lifestyle brings?

[brockalicious]

You can make it in the industry. Currently age has been an issue, but due to my dedication to the industry, I have plenty of connections and skill in drumming. Take a look at this band; www.myspace.com/infictionmusic They've toured with bands such as The Matches and have played alongside some great Australian bands. They've recently lost their drummer and have been looking for a new one. I showed them a video of me playing. They gave me a definite 'yes' providing I could move state. If I wasn't a minor, I would have been able to. So I'm confident that I'll be able to make a living out of it in a few years if I already have potential to get into a band like that.

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

That's all great drummingman, but part of never giving up on a dream is being prepared to live an impoverished life in material terms and be relaxed about watching your peers settle into a more comfortable way of life. What are you minimum expectations in terms of living standards? What are your experiences of life on the road? Can you put up with the boredom, uncertainty and rejection that the lifestyle brings?

If he is doing something he loves to do, yes. It seems to me he really wants this. As long as he is not quitting school to do it (which I would recommend against), it is fine. You can take almost any abuse from someone or something you really love. It won't even seem like abuse at all. DPS

[drummingman]

ok, i have been thinking about this some more. i know that a person can make a living playing in a metal band, just look at jason bittner in shadows fall. but im wondering about also playing in other bands while trying to make it in my metal band. how can a person be in 1 band full time and still play in other bands to make extra money without the other bands interfering with the main band? i ask this because i really want to be able to make a living playing in one main metal band but i think about things like, what if my band breaks up ( always a risk i know because i have been there) and things like that. i know that i would just go on to join or form another band but until i could form or join another band i would need to make a living.
what about people that are considered independent? i know that sometimes they will join one main band, like gavin harrison with porcupine tree.
i do look forward to all of your responses.

[Skitch]

ok, i have been thinking about this some more. i know that a person can make a living playing in a metal band, just look at jason bittner in shadows fall. but im wondering about also playing in other bands while trying to make it in my metal band. how can a person be in 1 band full time and still play in other bands to make extra money without the other bands interfering with the main band? i ask this because i really want to be able to make a living playing in one main metal band but i think about things like, what if my band breaks up ( always a risk i know because i have been there) and things like that. i know that i would just go on to join or form another band but until i could form or join another band i would need to make a living.
what about people that are considered independent? i know that sometimes they will join one main band, like gavin harrison with porcupine tree.
i do look forward to all of your responses.

Okay,

Here is my 2 cents:

Most of the participants on this forum will agree with me on this:

Most cover bands don’t realize the value of having original material and most original bands don’t realize that the only way you keep a band together is by the band members getting paid. Very few bands ever do both of these; play covers and record original music for sale over the internet, at gigs etc.

I have gotten much grief over playing in a retro band. I don’t really care as I just laugh all the way to the bank. I get paid. The same band is also a country band, which doubles our possibilities of getting hired! We also play blues festivals. We also have originals recorded for sale at our venues, but we do not use the venue to play the originals.


Get the picture? The more you can do, the more marketable you are and the more potential income you can make.

On the cover gigs, our aim is to be people-pleasers and we realize that we aren’t getting paid to entertain ourselves wanking around on our instruments, while the patrons of the club simply must endure or leave. They usually leave, if forced with that choice. The gigs aren’t about artistry or chops or everyone knowing that we are the baddest cats on the planet. These gigs are about keeping the crowd around. The crowd buys drinks which pays our salaries.

You asked the question about playing in other bands –

Yes you can make a living by doing this, but you will soon find that some of the bands you play in will want you to be a full-time member (regardless of how often they want to work). Also, if you have a band, such as your metal band, that is your preferred gig, the other band members may be “put off” by your gigging around and question your dedication. You would be surprised at how many musicians can feel slighted by this. Also, what will you do if your metal band is booked for a low or non-paying gig and you get a call for the same night for a $500 gig?

You also have to remember that all of the stuff you see in movies like “Rockstar”, in the drum magazines, and on VH1 is simply marketing; the selling of an image. You are going to have to turn off the “make it big “ mentality and realize that it takes many years to become an overnight success! I think this was mentioned in a prior post.

Furthermore, we aren’t living in the guilded age of the sixties or seventies. What I am saying here is that there is more competition for the entertainment dollars bands were getting back in those halcyon days. One of your competitors is the internet, which you are using right now. Movies on Demand, cable TV, video games, sporting events, DVDs, movie rentals, are all your competition. In the sixties and seventies, there wasn’t even the slightest hint of these sources of entertainment! In those days, the competitors were newspapers, TV, radio, and movies with some sporting events.

Let’s not forget about the competing bands which will play for free beer! I can drive down just about any street in my city and there is at least one musician on that street! Good, bad or mediocre – it doesn’t matter. There is more access to musical instruments than ever before as well! Then you need to start thinking about the DJs and the clubs who won’t hire a band because it is easier to hire a guy to spin CDs for $200. One person = less hassle than 5 guys which equals more hassle because of all the interpersonal relations (read here, less drama).


Nashville was brought up. I don’t think that being a session player in Nashville is going to be the Mecca. There is less and less studio work due to technology and the proliferation of in home studios. The A-list session players in Nashville are hurting as bad as anyone in music! Speaking of in-home project studios; many have owners who have drummer buddies who will play on the recording project for free just to satisfy their egos and be able to call themselves “ a session drummer” to impress their friends.

If you really want to play music for a living, you will have to love ANY kind of music. And you WILL have to learn how to read music in many different type of notations as well as learning how to play to a click track. It would also be helpful to learn another instrument….back to the more you can do theory!

You asked about books, but I can’t give a list of books which tell you how to become a millionaire over night by playing in an original metal band. I can give a few book titles which I think may have helped me:


Kiss and Make-up by Gene Simmons. This is an excellent book to learn how to market yourself or your band.
How to be a Working Musician by Mike Levine

The touring Musician by Hal Garper
Rich Dad, Poor Dad – another business book. You want to be in the music BUSINESS, right?

All You Need to Know about the Music Business – Donald Passman

And for the nights you can’t sleep because you are in the music business, Music Law – a NOLO press book.

I don't mean to come off negative or sounding like a know-it-all but you did ask! If you want to make a living in the music business, you will have to be in the business simply because you love any kind of music, not because you want to be a rockstar.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Oh,

and don't forget to get a dayrunner - your new best friend!!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[latzanimal]

Good advice Mike......

[drummingman]

thanks for your advice mike. and, whats a dayrunner?

[zambizzi]

Excellent post, Mike, and I'd have to say you're perhaps the most down-to-earth cat I've talked to in these forums, when it comes to schooling some of us on the music biz.

I love your insights on the competition out there and I see some of this in the local scene and have heard the stories. People who gig in this town don't typically do it for money...and if they do they work like dogs for it.

I think every kid who grows up loving music dreams of being a big rock star, making wheelbarrels full of cash, and getting chicks by the truck-load. Who wouldn't want this? It's the musician's American Dream.

Realisitcally, like any other business - it requires hard work. Like any profession, the more skilled and diverse you are, the better you can compete in the marketplace. When you apply for a day-job, your prospective employer is going to examine your history, skills, personality, and attitude. The better and broader all of these aspects are, the more likely you are to get a job. I see the entertainment business as being no different than this...and therefore my attitude about gigging, when that day comes, is that my skills and professional approach (and my bandmates) will speak for themselves.

Eventually all of that hard work will pay off!

[Jaden]

what.....is a dayrunner?

[nickg]

i was one of the lucky ones who was able to do nothing but play music AND support my family doing it, for many years. everyone, including the crew, was on a salary. though salary was hard to reach most of the time after Christmas and the first few months of the year. the first quarter of the year was always brutal!!

we gave up the full time gig though about 10 years ago with growing families and tired of traveling, and actually it quit being fun when it became too much "business" and not enough fun working/playing.

seems to be a "few and far between" situation though to do that these days.

[Skitch]

thanks for your advice mike. and, whats a dayrunner?


A Dayrunner is an organizer which has a month-in-view calendar and a telephone/address index in it. It usually found at an office supply store. It will help keep you organized and yes, I know that you can do the same thing with a cell phone. I have yet to hear of a sob story of someone stealing a dayrunner so that they could pawn it for the cash. Your phone can break or be stolen; information is invaluable and the lifeblood of your music business! You will need the dayrunner for a baxk-up at the very least.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

i was one of the lucky ones who was able to do nothing but play music AND support my family doing it, for many years. everyone, including the crew, was on a salary. though salary was hard to reach most of the time after Christmas and the first few months of the year. the first quarter of the year was always brutal!!

we gave up the full time gig though about 10 years ago with growing families and tired of traveling, and actually it quit being fun when it became too much "business" and not enough fun working/playing.

seems to be a "few and far between" situation though to do that these days.

And don't forget that all-imortant health insurance because having kids is expensive!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Excellent post, Mike, and I'd have to say you're perhaps the most down-to-earth cat I've talked to in these forums, when it comes to schooling some of us on the music biz.

I love your insights on the competition out there and I see some of this in the local scene and have heard the stories. People who gig in this town don't typically do it for money...and if they do they work like dogs for it.

I think every kid who grows up loving music dreams of being a big rock star, making wheelbarrels full of cash, and getting chicks by the truck-load. Who wouldn't want this? It's the musician's American Dream.

Realisitcally, like any other business - it requires hard work. Like any profession, the more skilled and diverse you are, the better you can compete in the marketplace. When you apply for a day-job, your prospective employer is going to examine your history, skills, personality, and attitude. The better and broader all of these aspects are, the more likely you are to get a job. I see the entertainment business as being no different than this...and therefore my attitude about gigging, when that day comes, is that my skills and professional approach (and my bandmates) will speak for themselves.

Eventually all of that hard work will pay off!

School of hard knocks, you know! I imagine the scene in Boise is much like it is in OKC although I have yet to have had the pleasure of being in Idaho! That was one of the major reason I got into music was that I wanted to see the world!

The closest I got was on a road gig last year in Rock Springs, Wyoming. Talk about the hard knocks; being away from home by at least 20 hours and finding out that the hotel you are supposed to stay in is the hotel for the crack-addicted prostitutes....and the reason you get to stay there is because it is the hotel that the club owner just happens to own!

I did like Wyoming though - I just didn't expect it to be high desert. I would like to go back and take a jeep ride on all of those trails I saw heading into the hills!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[drummingman]

i have also been thinking about the best place to live to insure better success finding the right band/bands to play with. i have been thinking about new york because of all the musicians that live there. sure that means more competition but that also means that if my main band breaks up there are a lot more musicians that i can hook up with faster then if i lived in the sticks. as is i live about an hour from washington dc and about an hour and a half from richmond va. dc is not that good for finding people to play with in metal but i hear that richmond is good for metal. lamb of god is out of richmond.
so im guessing that at some point i will end up close to new york city.

[fat in the middle]

I have been playing drums professionately for many years, and even though i constantly get the hard knocks, and feel like finding something else, i must point out a big tip in doing this thing called music, and it is of no surprise.: Keep the overheads low, eat well, buy cheap food, like soaked beans and good rice, its cheaper! and better for you, don't buy excess gear, clothes etc get a good kit,,watch your spending..get a thermos for coffee, and avoid road coffee, it all helps in the end. One cafe on the go is 40$ a month! thats a tank of fuel, MONEY IS TIME [not time is money!]...i live very cheap, which allows me to live of drumming] get a good car with resonable payments, and roadside insurance,,try not to compare with your friends with high paying jobs...you are an artist and we need time first, and money later..it will come, but believing in luck will only paint you into a corner,,and one more thing before i finish this rant; like me, quit spending so much time on the PC!! get to work [i tell myself]

[ermghoti]

And there it is. The reality of "making a living" in an original band. For the overwhelming majority (excluding the lottery winners with platinum albums and top endorsement deals), it's a subsistence earning lifestyle. I didn't read anything about saving for retirement, so I guess you live in a van until you can't stand unassisted anymore.

You get to make your own schedule (well, really, the bar owners will), and you get to play as much as you want, or more. This of course, in exchange for living a few seconds ahead of homelessness most of the time.

If you love what you do, great. If you think you're going to earn a comfortable living, you're gambling with money you don't have.

[Skitch]

i have also been thinking about the best place to live to insure better success finding the right band/bands to play with. i have been thinking about new york because of all the musicians that live there. sure that means more competition but that also means that if my main band breaks up there are a lot more musicians that i can hook up with faster then if i lived in the sticks. as is i live about an hour from washington dc and about an hour and a half from richmond va. dc is not that good for finding people to play with in metal but i hear that richmond is good for metal. lamb of god is out of richmond.
so im guessing that at some point i will end up close to new york city.


A good idea is to plan for it to take about five years before you become established in any new town.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Victor_se]

i make this thread to know the opinion from people who earn the life with drums ( and people who doesn't )

Pros, Cons



i'm gonna enter to the music college next year and im very happy about that.
i love play drums :D

[fat in the middle]

there really is no blue print for this, it is about hard work, and being true to yourself. There are equal amount of people looking for you, as you to them.
I look at retirement, or saving for it, as taking good care of my body. That is the best form of saving. Look at Roy Haynes. Musicians traditionally are nomads, so any training in the art of improvised living, the better, learn about mechanics, business, whatever it takes,, it will help. My car is on the brink and i don't know how to fix it. Perhaps if i read more about these things it could save me more money...the list goes on.

[rhythmjunkie]

If you look at the guys that do "make it," apart from being in a band (Vinnie, "Smitty," Gadd, Campbell), if you throw them into any situation they make it happen. Being a "gun for hire" and being proficient in different styles of music makes you more likely to play with a larger number of gigs. If a guy can play at this level, like this, the only thing that would keep him or her from being successful in the music industry is a crappy attitude and lack of motivation. Make sure you're rock solid as a musician, and then contribute your skills and abilities to those around you.

[rhythmjunkie]

I have been playing drums professionately for many years, and even though i constantly get the hard knocks, and feel like finding something else, i must point out a big tip in doing this thing called music, and it is of no surprise.: Keep the overheads low, eat well, buy cheap food, like soaked beans and good rice, its cheaper! and better for you, don't buy excess gear, clothes etc get a good kit,,watch your spending..get a thermos for coffee, and avoid road coffee, it all helps in the end. One cafe on the go is 40$ a month! thats a tank of fuel, MONEY IS TIME [not time is money!]...i live very cheap, which allows me to live of drumming] get a good car with resonable payments, and roadside insurance,,try not to compare with your friends with high paying jobs...you are an artist and we need time first, and money later..it will come, but believing in luck will only paint you into a corner,,and one more thing before i finish this rant; like me, quit spending so much time on the PC!! get to work [i tell myself]

Thanks a lot brother. Keep it real and God bless

[drummingman]

well, my goal is to be able to play in one metal band and make a living. and i have also been thinking about brushing up on all the major styles so i can also play in any musical situation so that i can always make a living playing music. meaning, when im playing in my metal band until the band is established enough to be able to make a living from it i can also play in other bands as well on the side to bring in extra money.
see for me playing in an all original metal band is my passion. when im just playing in a cover band i dont find it all that fulfilling.

[Butch Axsmith]

Take every chance you have to play ////
You will do just fine ////
Butch Axsmith

[Class A Drummer]

The kid who slept next to me at camp this summer, his father was a professional drummer. He lived off drumming for about 20 years, some years were good with money some were not so good. He told me once he made 18,000 in one year. But he said he loved every minute of it. But when he decided to have kids he stopped and got a higher paying job.

He told me it was a tough job trying to make it as a musician, but if you love it, go for it. He actually talked me out of going to a music school. I plan on going to a normal college that has a strong music program so maybe i can double major or minor in music with some other things in my bag.

[wy yung]

Well this is a BIG question. I have lived as a professional drummer for years, and at one point dropped out due to personal reasons. Then I discovered DW here and spoke to people who inspired me to get back into it. Now it's all I do, drum and play percussion. Is it easy? Well, not always.

Perhaps you could define what it is you actually wish to do. You could, for example, follow a teaching career. Many have done this with great success. Dom Famularo is one, Steve Houghton is another and there are many many more.

You could join a band and hope for the best and become a "star". This is not a guaranteed career by any means. Only a few make it and those who did were generally lucky to do so.

You might wish to make it as a sideman or studio player. Again there is no guarantee. For example, replacing Joe Porcaro as a film percussionist would be very hard indeed. In fact you'd probably have to wait for him to retire.

The one key requisite, I feel at least is having a solid foundation in one's craft. Become as good as you can. Know as much as possible. Network and meet as many people as possible. Try to get a job as a teacher in a music/drumstore. Do a business course and learn to organize your time to your best advantage.

And try to keep yourself together and motivated. Don't become a drunk or a drug addict. Always act in a professional manner. This means everything, from your composure to simply being on time and knowing the music and the name of your next student, have it all together. Often this will affect those around you and people will know they can rely on you. It's not only on stage we work. The "real world" outside drumming is where we spend most of our time dealing with others. Having this aspect of your life in place will help lead you to positive places both in life and music.

And I strongly recomend you find professional people who do this with success and ask them for advice. You may have to book a lesson with someone like Steve Houghton to ask him in order to do this. But it will be money well spent. Talk to good business people, successful teachers in the scholastic world, anyone who inspires others. Then perhaps meet with a career advising professional and map out a plan of action. Then work toward it.

It also helps to have something to fall back on. But it all depends upon what you want. You may be happy to teach out of your shed in the suburbs. It doesn't necessarrily have to be do or die. You don't have to have a platinum album on the wall in order to have a happy life playing the drums.

[Victor_se]

Hey my friend,

A lot of good advice on this thread and some incredibly negative crap as well. Like some of the others have said, try to be a flexible as possible. Metal won't be around forever.

Sometimes you just have to go for it. Don't fear failure. Fear not trying.

There may come a point when you realize you're beating your head against the wall. When that time comes you may have to make some hard choices, but until that time, take a run at it. Some guys do make it. Just look at the roster of pro drummer on DW. They made it.

It's a tough industry to be sure, but it can be rewarding. I got out in my late twenties. I saw the writing on the wall and decided it was time. That said, I heard myself on the radio, played some really big stages, and had experiences that most will never have. I have no regrets. I was a little behind getting my first job at 29 years old, but in the end it all worked out.

I own a home, have a family, own two cars, and a lot of drums. I don't feel that I wasted any of those years. They were friggin great! When I quit, I quit completely. I probably should have kept playing on a casual basis.

Hey, I'm back at it again. You only live once. Do it like you mean it!

Good luck!

TOTALY AGREE!!!

Great Response

[KCDrummer]

I make my living on the drums, mostly playing and a bit of teaching, and even though it is (so far) a very modest living, I wouldn't have it any other way. The downside, of course, is that there isn't much money in it, especially when you're just starting out. But if you have a low overhead and some concept of financial responsibility, you should be OK. Another con is that sometimes you have to play gigs you really don't want to play. Either the people you're playing with suck, the venue sucks, the pay sucks, etc., but you have to do it because it's all you do. If I've got the date open on my schedule, I can either sit at home for free or go play and get paid, so the choice isn't often a tough one. Whenever I have one of those gigs, I ask myself if I would rather be waiting tables, and even on the worst gigs, the answer is always no.

Just like almost any other profession, your success or failure as a pro musician will depend greatly on your ability to work well with people, professionalism, punctuality, versatility, ability to promote/sell yourself, making connections, etc. It's a hustle, and those that are making a living are spending about as much time hustling as they are playing.

[Skitch]

I make my living on the drums, mostly playing and a bit of teaching, and even though it is (so far) a very modest living, I wouldn't have it any other way. The downside, of course, is that there isn't much money in it, especially when you're just starting out. But if you have a low overhead and some concept of financial responsibility, you should be OK. Another con is that sometimes you have to play gigs you really don't want to play. Either the people you're playing with suck, the venue sucks, the pay sucks, etc., but you have to do it because it's all you do. If I've got the date open on my schedule, I can either sit at home for free or go play and get paid, so the choice isn't often a tough one. Whenever I have one of those gigs, I ask myself if I would rather be waiting tables, and even on the worst gigs, the answer is always no.

Just like almost any other profession, your success or failure as a pro musician will depend greatly on your ability to work well with people, professionalism, punctuality, versatility, ability to promote/sell yourself, making connections, etc. It's a hustle, and those that are making a living are spending about as much time hustling as they are playing.

What he said!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[zambizzi]

Just like almost any other profession, your success or failure as a pro musician will depend greatly on your ability to work well with people, professionalism, punctuality, versatility, ability to promote/sell yourself, making connections, etc. It's a hustle, and those that are making a living are spending about as much time hustling as they are playing.

Exactly, it's a business and any business has to get out and pound the pavement. Before I took a full-time job...I was a consultant, which meant a lot of self-promotion and sales work. Luckily, word of mouth carried me more often than not. I hope someday I can take this experience w/ me into entertainment.

It's great to see an upswing of optimism and encouragement on this thread lately!

[sio_13]

drummingman, do your research. if you wanna live in NY (outragous living standards, btw), go for it. life is a risk. now the downer: lets say you find a band, play around town for awhile, the singer decides your an ass (happens alot- egos often get in the way even with marginal success), and you break up. its not that easy just to go out and find another gig. look at the classifieds for ads for working musicians in the new york times. on top of that, if you're lucky enough for someone to return your call, what's on your resume? hopefully you will get the gig, but what if you don't? honestly, looking at the history of metal, you have more of a chance making it from somewhere out in BFE than in a major metro area. but, on the otherhand, don't let anyone stop you from doing what you dream of. just go for it, but you have to start somewhere. what have you done to further your career in the couple of months since you posted this thread? anything is better than nothing, even if it's playing the ramada room every friday for extra cash. when you do get a band together, if you haven't yet, think of all the ways to promote them and get your name out there. not just myspace either. here, i've got one for you- www.NACA.org the national association of collegiate activities. costs a bit to join and go to the shows, but pays really well if you book a college tour and gets great exposure, all without a label's help. good luck to ya, and dont get mad if things dont go your way, just get back on your drums and teach yourself something new.

p.s. brushing up on other styles of music won't help you much when you're competing with guys (and gals) who saturate themselves with knowledge til they can play it in their sleep. do your homework.

[Skitch]

I think that if you are going to move into a bigger market, be a good investigator. Make a few trips to the market you are wanting to move to and go do the "hang" with some of the musicians there. Find out what part of town they live in, where the hot spots are, stuff like that.

I don't think that anyone is being negative, just realistic. Go in with your eyes wide open and once you're in it, keep them half shut.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

I have been playing drums professionately for many years, and even though i constantly get the hard knocks, and feel like finding something else, i must point out a big tip in doing this thing called music, and it is of no surprise.: Keep the overheads low, eat well, buy cheap food, like soaked beans and good rice, its cheaper! and better for you, don't buy excess gear, clothes etc get a good kit,,watch your spending..get a thermos for coffee, and avoid road coffee, it all helps in the end. One cafe on the go is 40$ a month! thats a tank of fuel, MONEY IS TIME [not time is money!]...i live very cheap, which allows me to live of drumming] get a good car with resonable payments, and roadside insurance,,try not to compare with your friends with high paying jobs...you are an artist and we need time first, and money later..it will come, but believing in luck will only paint you into a corner,,and one more thing before i finish this rant; like me, quit spending so much time on the PC!! get to work [i tell myself]

I found this post to be very inspiring and deep, in a quiet sort of way. I like your attitude! I would want you in my band....DPS

[fat in the middle]

I found this post to be very inspiring and deep, in a quiet sort of way. I like your attitude! I would want you in my band....DPS

well thank you for seeing the bean isle, and not the cookies.
i remember an eddie murphy interview, where he said having something to fall back on means you are not putting 100% into your craft,,,made me think...

[freehandstyle]

Very interesting post indeed. Here's my personal story now.

I've started to drum when I was 15, I'm 18 now. I'm a late drummer compare to pros that play at 4 but I feel very strong that my DREAM job would be a professional drummer.

I love drumming. I want it to be my professional. But that doesn't make me think that I should quit everything in life to pursue my dreams. Instead, I'm continuing my education in Science and in Engineering for another 4 years of my life.

After my degree, I'll work a year in music industry and see how that would work. If all fails, I still have my education and my degree in Science to "cover my ass" in case I fail as a musician. At least I know that if I were to be an engineer, I'll be sure that I can have a steady job to collect all those cymbals and drums that I can ever dream of. (slowly but surely :P, engineers don't really make that much).

So I guess it's possible to have a career living off as a drummer. In fact i met this person once that he quit his job around 30 and decided to drum professional and raising his kid already. The key though is to not have yourself run out of options.

All the best to all drummers in pursue of a career out of it as I am one myself :P

[drummingman]

well thank you for seeing the bean isle, and not the cookies.
i remember an eddie murphy interview, where he said having something to fall back on means you are not putting 100% into your craft,,,made me think... i agree with eddie.
i have been thinking about not moving to new york. i have a really good frind that i have been taking to that lived in new york for like 6 years. he is a guitar player. he has been telling me about how expensive it is to live there and how the competition is fierce. he has said that whereever i am is where i have to make it happen.
as is i live in VA about an hour from DC and about 2 hours from richmond. as some of you may know richmond is where lamb of god are from. gwar are also from there. the scene in richmond is better then what it is in dc, so that is the area that i hope to most check out.