The New Breed by Gary Chester - advice

[gazzdw]

hi u lot, i just bought gary chester's:the new breed book over amazon and i dont actualy understand exactly what he wants me to do in the exercises, i just dont get it.
if anyone cud help that would be grand
thank you

[Wavelength]

Just read carefully the opening chapters of the book. It's all explained there.

[shuffle]

Ooohh what a great book.

How to use it is pretty well explained at page 8.

Basically :

1) learn to play a given "system" - say system 1 which is just 16th notes with alternate sticking.

2) In the case of system 1, you can see that the melody should be played with the Bassdrum (RF/ BD / melody), so turn to page 14 and play the whole page (without stopping) with your bass drum, while maintening the alternated 16th notes.

The idea is to read well enough - and to have adequate control and independance - to insert all those melodies into the systems dynamically, as you progress through each reading page. Must maintain a good groove all along.

It is pretty easy with the first system, but things get more complicated very quickly. This book alone can drive you crazy for years. There was a great feature on the book in a recent modern drummer.

[KCDrummer]

All I can say is good luck. If we find you dead in the bathtub with your wrists slit in a week, at least we'll know why.

[jonescrusher]

gazzdw - i think a lot of people buy this book and then get put off by the way it's all presented and the terms he uses. Don't be confused by the term melody - the melodies are just the lines of rhythm that you play against the repeated 'system' (groove), with whatever limb is indicated.

Gary Chester does give quite detailed instructions on how to go through the book, and surely if you follow these to the letter you'll see maximum improvement, but, as peoples have said, there's a lifetime of work in that one book. I use it when i have a specific coordination problem that I know i need to sort out - i go through and find the most relevant system (or make one up), and then go through all the melody pages

Don't get put off - find a system that you find most natural and start attempting the sight-reading. All to a metronome, of couse. Good luck!

[samthebeat]

thats what i like about that book, the reading text is really put toghther, it's very progressiv, it makes the process easier. Ive been going through it for about a 6 months, ive now got to "systems" i dont think im gona use. So im going through the reading text with ostinatoes i use and want more indepence in that he has left out.

It's a dam good book, very specific, and very usefull for getting indepence with any oastinato you want. In retrospect i could just Lois Bellson reading text, but i think garys text is far more modern, groovey and musical.

[DWDrummer]

I've been practicing this book a lot for a while now, and I'm pretty deep into the book. However, my bass drum speed is lagging. I start slow and go through one page with the heel down, then go back and play the same page with the heel up. I then increase the speed on the met by 5 bpms and repeat the process. I can only max out on the met around 75/80 BPM. I feel that my bass drum speed is holding me back from playing the exrcies faster. Does anyone have any advice for me? Should I play the exercises longer on the same tempo? Thanks.

[Wavelength]

Should I play the exercises longer on the same tempo?

Yes. You should spend a good amount of time at each tempo -- preferably a week of daily practice -- and after you're entirely competent with it, raise the tempo by ONE bpm. Also, work on each individual measure on its own for a while to really "dig into" them.

[DWDrummer]

Thanks. I'm definately going to practice each individual mesaure more. So say i start at 50 bpm. I should practice that tempo for a week? Then raise it one BPM each week?

[Wavelength]

Yep, and do remember to work on the singing and counting aspects as well. The book isn't about speed, but interdependence, accuracy and time. For example, I can play a long, clean stream 16th notes at around 110 bpm, but playing the New Breed systems cleanly at that tempo would be impossible. Accuracy and control need to be eased in tempo-wise, and I'm still working on it.

You could also work on a single melody page per day, and raise the tempo after ten days. Don't fall into the trap of just playing through the book, since that is not its purpose. Spend time with it and remember that the amount of books, pages and different exercises you go through doesn't correlate to your rate of improvement. Denote some time to daily practice of the New Breed and don't worry about "finishing" the book or getting to the next system. The very first system in itself is very challenging if you really focus on getting it clean, even, accurate and grooving.

[Jeff Almeyda]

Thanks. I'm definately going to practice each individual mesaure more. So say i start at 50 bpm. I should practice that tempo for a week? Then raise it one BPM each week?

I've worked through this book in it's entirety and the best way that I found for me was to pick three to four tempos and work them. In other words, if you can do it at 70 BPM. Do it first at 40 then 60 then 70 then 75. 75 might be a little sloppy and you might have to slow down to 72. It's OK. You will find that this multi-layered approach is a little more interesting and also a little more like real-life. Another thing that I used to do was vary the tempos by one or 2 points. Instead of always 70 BPM, sometimes it would be 68 or 71. This opens you up to different subtle changes.

Raising by one BPM is incredibly difficult to keep going in the long run. Why should it take you 10 weeks to go from 50 to 60? I agree with the concept of a gradient approach but one per week in like having a 50 mile runway before you take off.

You should finish the book at your technique level and at the tempos you can handle. Once you finish it, put it aside, work on something else for a few months and then come back and do it again, this time being more critical of yourself.

In this way, the student (you) gets some positive reinforcement along the way. Increasing by one BPM a week makes it very difficult to feel progress and you might end up dropping the whole thing.

Also, practice a system for at least 30 minures non-stop. None of this read a page and stop stuff. I used to have all of the melody pages laid out so that I could read SIX straight through without stopping. If you can't handle the thirty minutes then work up to it but don't push too hard and strain yourself.

Good luck, what you are working on is the real deal. Every bit of honest effort you put into this will pay off big time.

Oh yeah, one more thing.... SING!!!

[jonescrusher]

Whaa? This is a bloody repeat thread, i've just replied to the other one, damn.
As with JEff, I disagree with Wavelength's approach. Wavelength, if this is how you use New Breed you must have the patience of a saint, 1 bpm increase?? I couldn't think of any way to lose interest in an area study quicker.

AS jeff advised, try to complete the melodies at a tempo you can handle. This worked for me, in allowing me to see what specific figures were causing me particular problems.

[DWDrummer]

Jonescrusher- Sorry, I made another thread because the other one was not getting any replies.

Everyone- thanks for the advice. Out of all of your information, I will do the following:

I'm going to play each individual measure about 16-20 times rather than 4

I will play each tempo for a longer duration.

Since you guys are in debate about the whole 1 bpm thing, I will not increase by 5 bpms, but by a smaller number, somewhere between 2-3 bpms. I think 5 bpms is not a huge increase when playing some hand exercies, but on the bass drum I think 5 bpms is a big increase.

It's funny because I never realized my bass drum lag until I noticed it in one of my band's rehearsals. Our songs range from 86-105 bpms. I really can only play the new breed exercises around 70-75 bpm (max). So, right now my bass drum in my individual practice time compared to my band practice lags.


I have also learned Travis Barker went through this book. Any idea on how fast he can reef these exercises? BTW- I'm not a travis barker rulez fan, so please don't go into a debate here. I respect him for the right reasons, and that's that. Thanks again.

[DWDrummer]

well i'm going to be taking drum lessons from marco minneman soon, so hopefully he could give me some tips on this book too

[Drummer30]

Drum lessons with Marco? Wow you're probably on your way pretty soon. That must be costing a pretty penny. I've been working on the book too but I don't think I'm as far into it yet so I can't really say what I've had in personal experience.

[Jeff Almeyda]

well i'm going to be taking drum lessons from marco minneman soon, so hopefully he could give me some tips on this book too

You are incredibly lucky! Marco is one of the best drummers on the planet. I never knew that he accepted less than advanced students. (No offense, but his book is WAY harder than New Breed). I began studying with Mike Mangini only after I was recommended by Dom Famularo, for example.

As far as "tips"...Just listen to him and you won't need advice from any of us here!!! Marco has advanced the subject of coordinated interdependence to the next level. He can get you through New Breed and then some!

[DWDrummer]

Yeah, luckily, he lives close by. My first lesson is July 12th and I'm really nervous! haha. I asked his booking agent if I could continue studying the New Breed with him so hopefully that will work out.

[h3r3tic]

Is there anyone who practises with this EXCELLENT BOOK?

If so, then could you please post here your opinion about practising with these books refered at this thread.

Could you tell us how you practise them?

Thanks people ;)

[jonescrusher]

Heretic, I see you live on the Azorean islands, i'm guessing there are no drum teachers there
? A shame as you have so many questions that are best answered in person.

Aside from doing a search (!), apply the basics to your study - take it very slowly at first, and always use a metronome. And stop worrying about advanced hand techniques. They won't help you get this sort of material sounding good.

[h3r3tic]

Heretic, I see you live on the Azorean islands, i'm guessing there are no drum teachers there
? A shame as you have so many questions that are best answered in person.

Aside from doing a search (!), apply the basics to your study - take it very slowly at first, and always use a metronome. And stop worrying about advanced hand techniques. They won't help you get this sort of material sounding good.

Well, I'm hopening that this year, there will be a new school of music which is more cheaper from what I heard than the conservatory...

As soon as that new school is opening, I'll have drum classes ;)
Thanks for the suggestion. And yes, I always practise with a metronome and I do practise slow ;)

[DWDrummer]

you should really only practice the new breed if you have advanced skills, especially a very well developed bass drum chop, as the new breed is an ADVANCED book..

[rockitman]

Agreed on both JC and DW comments. If you don't have the skills to take on Chesters book, it will leave you wondering and pondering what the hell your even doing behind a kit.

[samthebeat]

Dont listen to them, New Breed is advanced yes, but it is progressive, is does break you in somewhat, this is the great thing about it, yes it will drive you crazy to begin with, but it gets easier every pattern you work through. Personally I did not find that difficult, there were occasions where I felt like throwing it away yes, but mostly just went through the motions with it.

As for practicing work through it like he says, practice nice and slow at first play each bar until you feel really comfortable with it, sing the bass, sing the hat, sing the parts like he says, He does mention playing through each bar four times, You will probably need to take more time to do that. If you find the voice excersises to hard leave them out at fisrt, and add them in later. It will take time, but is worth it. I spend about 30 mins a night working out of this book, and do about 2 pages a night,

Once you have been through the book once you can take it a step further, once you understand this system of learning co-ordiantion, and it is great system of learning anything, you can apply more complicated patterns, go through it with Shuffles and what not, different ghosting patterns etc etc. but for now just do what the man says.

As for stick control, i must confess, I dont use it a lot in my drumset practice.....a sin I know, but im sure you can find lots of interesting things to do with that book in the thread for things to do with stick control.

peace.

[h3r3tic]

Dont listen to them, New Breed is advanced yes, but it is progressive, is does break you in somewhat, this is the great thing about it, yes it will drive you crazy to begin with, but it gets easier every pattern you work through. Personally I did not find that difficult, there were occasions where I felt like throwing it away yes, but mostly just went through the motions with it.

As for practicing work through it like he says, practice nice and slow at first play each bar until you feel really comfortable with it, sing the bass, sing the hat, sing the parts like he says, He does mention playing through each bar four times, You will probably need to take more time to do that. If you find the voice excersises to hard leave them out at fisrt, and add them in later. It will take time, but is worth it. I spend about 30 mins a night working out of this book, and do about 2 pages a night,

Once you have been through the book once you can take it a step further, once you understand this system of learning co-ordiantion, and it is great system of learning anything, you can apply more complicated patterns, go through it with Shuffles and what not, different ghosting patterns etc etc. but for now just do what the man says.

As for stick control, i must confess, I dont use it a lot in my drumset practice.....a sin I know, but im sure you can find lots of interesting things to do with that book in the thread for things to do with stick control.

peace.

Thank you so much for your encouraging words man ;)

Yes I'll practise slow and do what the man says ;)

Thanks!

[jbutl78]

What is this "the new breed", who is it by, where would i find it, etc.?
Cheers

[jangus]

What is this "the new breed", who is it by, where would i find it, etc.?
Cheers

"The New Breed" is a method book by studio legend Gary Chester. It is recommended by many pros, including Dave Weckl. It has many progressive "systems" to develop better coordination and overall playing. It's a very popular book and shouldn't be too hard to find.

I must admit I have not looked at it enough. If you don't take it slow, you'll get frustrated real fast.

Here's a question, do you or do you not practice the systems that call for you to play crossed for open players, or open for crossed players? I'm sure everyone would agree there's no harm in learning both but what do YOU do? I personally try them sometimes, but I'm not so good at playing open and it can get frustrating.

[fijjibo]

Im looking at a bunch of books to work on over the summer, and Im thinking that maybe I could get this book to have as a reference on my bookshelf.

A good idea?

[jbutl78]

jangus, what do you mean by play crossed for open players, or open for crossed players? i feel i might be asking a silly question or something, but i'm intrigued.

and Yeah there's a bunch of books i wanted to get, have been making a list, most i've only heard of. so far i'm looking into these:
John Riley's "Art of Bop Drumming"
"Stick Control for the Snare Drummer" by George Lawrence Stone
George Stone's "Accents and Rebounds"
and now "The New Breed" by Gary Chester

i already have Jim Chapin's "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" and it's great. Is there any others anyone can recomend, or any recomendations of which i should get first?

Cheers
J

Ps. looking at getting some more instructional/inspirational dvds, so far i have the one from flo mounier and steve smith. any great ones out there?

[mickeyman]

4-Way Coordination by Marvin Dahlgren
100 TIPS FOR DRUMS YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD (BOOK AND CD) by Peter Riley

Chester recommends using two hi hats (using my electronic kit is nice, I can just program a pad as another hat). Open means not crossing right hand over ldft to play hats. Play ride with right hand, hats with left--a more ambidextrous approach than most folks use.

[jangus]

I mean on systems that call for the left hand playing the hat and the right playing snare, do the players that normally play right on hats practice these, and vice versa?

[mickeyman]

I mean on systems that call for the left hand playing the hat and the right playing snare, do the players that normally play right on hats practice these, and vice versa?

Okay, I'm reading from the book. He actually uses 3 hats (one is over the right floor tom).
He thinks crossing over is unnatural so even though he doesn't state it during instructions for the "systems", it seems as if you shouldn't cross. You should still practice these systems, just substitute the ride or a cowbell otherwise you'd be skipping whole systems and he's set these up to be sequential. System #2 is R on Hats and L on snare so he must mean the hats on the right side. System #1 has R on Hats and L on Hats.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28442

http://www.cymbalholic.com/forums/showthread.php?p=193739

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7RMXjQaYL8

[JCM]

Right now I am using it to practice my independence and reading at the same time. A cool exercise my teacher told me to told is to play:
8th notes on the ride
1/4 notes with the hi hat (left foot)
2 and 4 on the snare

While all this is going on, start on 1-A and play the notes with the bass drum. It is difficult at first but it will help your independence and reading no-end!

[Halidman]

jangus, what do you mean by play crossed for open players, or open for crossed players? i feel i might be asking a silly question or something, but i'm intrigued.

and Yeah there's a bunch of books i wanted to get, have been making a list, most i've only heard of. so far i'm looking into these:
John Riley's "Art of Bop Drumming"
"Stick Control for the Snare Drummer" by George Lawrence Stone
George Stone's "Accents and Rebounds"
and now "The New Breed" by Gary Chester

i already have Jim Chapin's "Advanced Techniques for the Modern Drummer" and it's great. Is there any others anyone can recomend, or any recomendations of which i should get first?

Cheers
J

Ps. looking at getting some more instructional/inspirational dvds, so far i have the one from flo mounier and steve smith. any great ones out there?


The new one from Jojo mayer looks damn good. Saw a Trailer for it on youtube last night. Really in depth. and some very nice graphics too. :)
havent been able to find a torrent for it yet...coz im too cheap to buy it..... lol

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

The new one from Jojo mayer looks damn good. .....
havent been able to find a torrent for it yet...coz im too cheap to buy it..... lol

That remark and the attitude behind it should make your reputation in this community take a serious hit. Stealing from a genius, non-mainstream drummer who could use more recognition is something you should reconsider. Shape up and BUY it! Mow the darn lawn...do something... DPS

[Jeff Almeyda]

He uses 3 hats because he can play with either a left hand or right hand lead and still get the foot on the hat going.

The hat on the right is closed. He can play that with his right hand and put the left foot on the hat. One hat on the left is closed so he can do the same thing with left hand lead. There is also a regular hat for the foot in the normal position.

If you don't have 2 or 3 hats just ride on another surface like a ride cymbal or a tom rim.

Practice this to a click, SLOWLY and sing as per the instructions.

Don't think you'll get though this book in a month or two, either.

[Jeff Almeyda]

The new one from Jojo mayer looks damn good. Saw a Trailer for it on youtube last night. Really in depth. and some very nice graphics too. :)
havent been able to find a torrent for it yet...coz im too cheap to buy it..... lol

I'm too cheap to buy a new TV, maybe I'll steal one.

[aboylikedave]

I've just started this and its amazing, I've spent two days on one system and melody as its so bloody hard. I've realised that I not really been using my hi hat muich other than on the 2 and 4. Relearning with a four on the floor hi hat is v v hard for me.

But, my query is, Gary Chester says something in the instructions which I don't understand:

"When you read these systems in practice, try to read across as you would sight read a page of music – not up and down. By this I mean that most people relate each note to where it falls in relation to the quarter note. It is good to feel this when you sing but I do not recommend trying to read against the quarter."

What exactly does he mean? I'm desparately hoping it makes this easier!

[aboylikedave]

And while I'm at it, why the **** is it sooooo much harder doing the excercises singing 'la, la, la, la' out loud than saying 'one, two, three, four'???!

[weegs51690]

i'm studying the same book. i think it means don't try and read e's as like, a sixteenth note later than a quarter note, and &'s as "halfway between 3 and 4" or such like that. i think he means to read it as a lateral melody, instead of worrying about where it falls in relation to the quarter notes.

[Wernervonwaltsleben]

im realy stupid with that book.i took one look at it and went, what the hell should i do.the systems and the melodies.what is the melodies.how do you play a melody.like the notes in the melody section.i understand how the rhythm goes.it's just snare notes.but how do u put that in with the systems?
i think that's a realy dumb question, but plz help also

[pasta]

Each system has certain limbs playing an ostinato (repeated groove) and then tells you which limb/instrument is to play the melody. Read the details of each system carefully.

[jdschnee]

One of the best drum-set books period.

[aboylikedave]

im realy stupid with that book.i took one look at it and went, what the hell should i do.the systems and the melodies.what is the melodies.how do you play a melody.like the notes in the melody section.i understand how the rhythm goes.it's just snare notes.but how do u put that in with the systems?
i think that's a realy dumb question, but plz help also

Both 'systems' and 'melodies' are really just 'patterns' which you practice playing together.

Basically you learn the first 'system' (the first one is just playing 16th with both hands on the hi hat if I remember correctly) and, whilst playing that, play the first page of 'melodies' on the bass drum. Whilst singing the quarter pulse ('la, la, la, la). When you can do that, learn the second system and play all the melodies on the bass drum whilst playing that.

That will keep you going for ages!!!! There are many more variations, such as singing the melody, or playing the melody with different drums or cymbals, but basically his should give you an idea.

I'm not entirely sure what its doing for me but I reckon the fact that such easy combinations seem so hard in practice mean there's something I need to improve on!

[Dispatched]

This book is all about awareness of timing and unison. Play this stuff to a metronome and importantly make sure all of your limbs are hitting in unison. No Flamming! You have four limbs and your voice going at the same time, dont forget to listen! Your trying to perfect a groove here. If you play them like excersizes they'll sound like excersizes. Thats why Chester likes to use the word melody a lot. The grooves should feel good when you play them, if they dont, play them until they do feel good. So take the systems slowly with a metronome and make sure everythings lining up, then you can add some color to your playing.

[roboboticus]

I'm a little confused about some of the hi-hat notation. Maybe someone can help me out...

For example, in System #2 the right hand plays steady 16th notes on the hat, while the left foot plays steady quarter notes. With no open/closed markings, does this mean all closed? That's been my assumption, and so I've had to work on quickly opening the hat just before tapping it down on the quarter note, so as not to have any open hits. Not hard with my heel up, but kind of hard with heel down.

So, is that the intent of the notation? I'm still a bit of a beginner, which may explain some of my confusion.

As to the debate of whether this book is appropriate for less-than-advanced players, I'm all for it. True, it's an added challenge when you're still hammering out technique issues in each limb, but after getting off the ground I'm finding it greatly rewarding, both in building independence and continuing to improve technique.

It's been great to see hear different people's approaches to this book too; bpm, duration, repetition and such nuts & bolts. Rock on (garth)!

[Matt]

Roboboticus, there are no open hi-hat notes, because you're not supposed to be playing with your right hand on the same hi-hat that your left foot is playing. It is written as if you have an auxilary closed hi-hat on the right side of your kit, with your left foot playing the regular hi-hat. Just move your right hand to the ride cymbal, floor tom, cowbell, etc.

[roboboticus]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks, Matt.
But then what about System #3, where you're left hand is playing the hi-hat?

[Matt]

He also assumes you have an auxilary closed hi-hat on the left side. The book is written for three hi-hats. Practical? No, because nobody plays with three hi-hats. His reason for doing it was good, though, because it allows for some good possibilities. Just look at the pictures of his set, and read the introductory stuff. If you don't have something that he has, just play the part on something else, like another cymbal.

[roboboticus]

Oh, cool. Thanks again!

[Wavelength]

Roboboticus, there are no open hi-hat notes, because you're not supposed to be playing with your right hand on the same hi-hat that your left foot is playing. It is written as if you have an auxilary closed hi-hat on the right side of your kit, with your left foot playing the regular hi-hat. Just move your right hand to the ride cymbal, floor tom, cowbell, etc.

I, being the literal bastard that I am, used to play all of the exercises with one hi-hat. It was daunting at first, but eventually I developed a very quick action with my left foot -- I actually could play all sixteenths closed and pedal the additional notes with the left foot without getting any open sounds. I recommend trying this one out, since the benefits are huge.

[roboboticus]

Yeah, I suppose I'll continue doing it that way for now. I'm able to do it up to about 60 bpm. Tricky as the foot action is, it's mostly the sixteenth notes that are capping my speed...

[brianthedrummer]

It took me a year to get through this book. I just started on the second one, it's kicking my arse. But, here's my results...

1. My left foot is hot! so much freedom!
2. I can sing and play.
3. I have so much independence and understanding of note reading.

It's well worth the effort. I played one part a week. there is more than enough melodies to keep you busy. Besides, are you in a hurry? Good luck...

[spw]

The first exercise, playing 16ths on the hats, they are played Simutaneously, not alternating.

If you look at the next 2 exercises, you can see that the snare and hat are played together, not in place of.

[Styx]

Ooohh what a great book.

How to use it is pretty well explained at page 8.

Basically :

1) learn to play a given "system" - say system 1 which is just 16th notes with alternate sticking.

2) In the case of system 1, you can see that the melody should be played with the Bassdrum (RF/ BD / melody), so turn to page 14 and play the whole page (without stopping) with your bass drum, while maintening the alternated 16th notes.

The idea is to read well enough - and to have adequate control and independance - to insert all those melodies into the systems dynamically, as you progress through each reading page. Must maintain a good groove all along.

It is pretty easy with the first system, but things get more complicated very quickly. This book alone can drive you crazy for years. There was a great feature on the book in a recent modern drummer.

Isn't Ex1 supposed to be both hands playing similtaneously without creating a flam effect?

[FunkyJazzer]

Isn't Ex1 supposed to be both hands playing similtaneously without creating a flam effect?


Yes. Definitely a yes from me.

[wickydeviking]

just ordered the New Breed book with cd, and New Breed II. Very curious about it, which is your fault, guys! lol

[FunkyJazzer]

just ordered the New Breed book with cd, and New Breed II. Very curious about it, which is your fault, guys! lol

Lol.


You won't be going anywhere near New Breed II until you finish the first one.

Better put it away safe until 2011.

[joseisfreshhh]

just got this book like tuesday, yea, it's pretty difficult, but i like a good challenge.

[Abhishek]

Slightly confused about Systems 2-5. I like most people, have just one hi hat. So, for example, System 2, I play 16ths with my right on ride (instead of a 2nd hi hat), and a chick on the hi hat with my foot. What about System 3 then, where I am supposed to play 16ths, and the quarter note chick on the same hat? Is it an opening of the hat?

[Abhishek]

Anyone?

20202020202020

[brady]

The left-hand lead exercises such as System 2 assume you have an additional auxiliary hi-hat on your left. (A total of 3 hi-hats on your kit). However, you could use any other sound source on your left so you can play the hi-hat quarters with your foot. Try using your crash cymbal. a cowbell, a tambourine, a side snare, a splash cymbal on your side snare, or maybe use a shaker; that sounds cool too. The possibilities are endless.
You could even use a remote floor tom. Some later exercises in New Breed call for a left-side floor tom for left hand-lead grooves.
Check out the picture of Gary's kit in the book. That should clear things up a bit.