Jazz Bass hits

[Class A Drummer]

What is the point of playing 4 on the floor on the bass drum during a standard swing if you cant hear it at all? My band director told me during the jazz Band tryouts he wants to be able to see movement in the resonant head on all 4 beats, but not be able to hear it at all.

I dont get the point of it. I know Tommy Igoe talks about doing it but i dont get the reason for doing it.

[jayp]

The way my teacher explains this.

It's what they call a "felt" tap not to be heard but felt(same kinda feel goes for ghostnotes) I'm guessing it adds a subtleness or in the case of the ghostnote sophistication to the beat, try playing without it im sure you'll notice the difference.

[Michael G]

Feathering the bass drum, the point is to feel it and not to hear it.

So instead of hearing it "round up the bottom" you feel it round out the bottom.

[Class A Drummer]

Idk. It makes it harder for me to play also, because i have learned from a couple professionals that most of the time you want to make a fast crisp hi-hat, in which you have to use your foot kinda hard. Tapping it so lightly with the right foot and hittin' the left foot fast and hard together are pretty hard.

I'll see if i can really tell the difference w/ and w/o the right foot.

[Drummerboy3940]

this is one of the reason that jazz is so hard to play well...insane independence

[theduke86]

Playing four on the floor is useful, especially in a more bebop or straightahead context. Seriously, it's just a tap though, like a 1/4 of an inch from the head. You shouldn't be able to really hear it. It does make a difference though, even if you don't play like that all the time.

[rendezvous_drummer]

I find it really helps my playing and 4 way coordination. I just feather it.

[Wavelength]

Feathering was originally used to support the walking upright bass, and it is still useful to help lock in with the bass player. Also, feathering the bass drum makes your ride cymbal sound two inches bigger than it actually is... :)

I have learned from a couple professionals that most of the time you want to make a fast crisp hi-hat, in which you have to use your foot kinda hard.

If you use your foot hard, your hi-hat will sound hard -- you don't want that. Move your foot quickly and crisply and you'll get a fast, crisp sound, and you can vary the dynamics of the "chick", too. It's not so much about power as it is about the speed of your leg's and foot's muscles.

Tapping it so lightly with the right foot and hittin' the left foot fast and hard together are pretty hard.

Yea, just like it's hard to play ghost notes on the snare while playing medium strokes on the hi-hat. It's dynamic independence, and it's essential to learn to control your limbs' dynamics if you want to sound good. Just keep working on it, and you'll get it.

[k3ng]

again, i never knew i was feathering the bass until i read some thread a while back..
but here's how i self developed my bass feathering style without losing the nice sound on my hats.

I naturally end up using heel down on my bass and heel up on my hats. I dunno if it's encouraged but it gives me a really nice feel on both my pedals and gets me the sound I want.

[bballdrummer34]

Since jazz is based around the quarter note pulse, mainly coming from the bass and drums, it is useful to have 3 limbs stressing the quarter note. Feathering can only make your time better. To get good at it i recomend, Ted Reed's "Syncopation" book. Play the ride, hi-hat, and bass drum with a metronome and have your left hand do the exercises. Practice this to gain more independence with your left hand also. Your time will become close to flawless after only a few months of this excercise. I wish i could stress enough how important the quarter note pulse is.

[kacperivo]

some things are better to be felt than explained class a. as for me, i love to play all that bebop and second line stuff with 4 on the floor, cause it just feels better. and believe me, someone who's listening, also feels better.

[Class A Drummer]

If you go to Vic Firth's site at the moment, Tommy Igoe's groove essential #24 shows him only doing the bass drum on the 1 and 3.

How know when to do it on the one and three, as opposed to four ont he floor? Is it just because it has a two feel?

[Dr Drums]

The way my teacher explains this.

It's what they call a "felt" tap not to be heard but felt(same kinda feel goes for ghostnotes) I'm guessing it adds a subtleness or in the case of the ghostnote sophistication to the beat, try playing without it im sure you'll notice the difference.

I agree.. well said.
And just like everyone else said it - U gotta FEEL it.
Alotta things in music and particularly in jazz are felt rather than heard.
Don't seek logic all the time. Listen to some jazz tunes and find it yourself...

-a

[jazzin']

If you go to Vic Firth's site at the moment, Tommy Igoe's groove essential #24 shows him only doing the bass drum on the 1 and 3.

How know when to do it on the one and three, as opposed to four ont he floor? Is it just because it has a two feel?

There are a number of ways to imply a 2 feel. The classic one being the 'tss st ts tss' on the hats while closing them with your hand on 2 and 4. In this you could add a slight feather on 1 and 3 but if you're playing the ride 1 2 a3 4 a1 and doing the bass drum on 1 and 3 it's not a 2 feel. If you're playing a quarter note pulse with your ride you might as well add 4 if you're doing that type of thing anyway. It can sometimes be too obvious when doing it on 1 and 3, giving it a kind of back beat thing. Unless thats what you're after. Like in a shuffle.

[Eric]

If you go to Vic Firth's site at the moment, Tommy Igoe's groove essential #24 shows him only doing the bass drum on the 1 and 3.

How know when to do it on the one and three, as opposed to four ont he floor? Is it just because it has a two feel?

Very simply; If the bass is playing "in 2" (half notes), you would play the bass drum on one and three; If the bass is "walking" (quarter notes), you would play quarter notes on the bass drum. If you play one and three on the bass drum while the bass player is walking, the jazz police will hunt you down, drag you into the forest and shoot you dead.

[crlujan]

I think it depends on the type of jazz gig you're playing.

I was lucky enough to have a good enough seat to view all of Jeff Hamilton's limbs at a gig he did to celebrate Ray Brown's Birthday at Yoshi's. He was constantly feathering the bass drum. And it all felt great.

But I don't think you'd see feathering with Clarence Penn in Dave Douglas' group or Bill Stewart with Chris Potter. I think it depends on the gig.

My teacher really only expects me to feather the bass drum when playing brushes. Or working on syncopation stuff out of the book. But I found that it helps my shuffle to be stronger too.

[Class A Drummer]

The past 2 days or so i have really been practicing swingin four on the floor. It is still not quite as natural to me as 2+4 (considering thats the only way i played jazz the past year or 2) but its definitley comin along nicely.

[bballdrummer34]

The past 2 days or so i have really been practicing swingin four on the floor. It is still not quite as natural to me as 2+4 (considering thats the only way i played jazz the past year or 2) but its definitley comin along nicely.

Are you feathering or are you actually hitting the beater on the head as if it was to be heard by anyone else?

[Class A Drummer]

Are you feathering or are you actually hitting the beater on the head as if it was to be heard by anyone else?

A little of both. Its not completley consistent yet when i feather it. At first i just got comfortable with 4 on the floor, now im working on feathering. Im not sure if its legit feathering though, because i can still hear the bass drum a little. My band director said he shouldnt be able to hear it, but should be able to see the resonant head moving.

[bballdrummer34]

A little of both. Its not completley consistent yet when i feather it. At first i just got comfortable with 4 on the floor, now im working on feathering. Im not sure if its legit feathering though, because i can still hear the bass drum a little. My band director said he shouldnt be able to hear it, but should be able to see the resonant head moving.

Its weird that he said he wants to see the reso head moving. Hmmm. If he doesn't want to hear it that shouldn't be important to him seeing as it's not going through that far to resonate the resonant head. hmmm

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Remember that feathering is louder in a big band setting than it is in a chamber jazz setting. It depends on the room, the acoustics etc. It's just got to be like garlic in your food: you should only notice when it's not there....DPS

[bballdrummer34]

Remember that feathering is louder in a big band setting than it is in a chamber jazz setting. It depends on the room, the acoustics etc. It's just got to be like garlic in your food: you should only notice when it's not there....DPS

Yea, i can dig that.

[Class A Drummer]

Remember that feathering is louder in a big band setting than it is in a chamber jazz setting. It depends on the room, the acoustics etc. It's just got to be like garlic in your food: you should only notice when it's not there....DPS

Ill keep that in mind. So how loud do you think it should be? It is the size of a big band.