New Old Ludwigs

[Porker69]

UPDATE on post 34
My 1964 Ludwigs came last friday so after setup and tuning here they are.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0050.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0053.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0054.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0055.jpg

[Michael G]

Very nice Ludwigs, really look good.

Edit: Here we go, some pics finally.

Wow those are nice, I am extremely jealous. I always wanted a 60's Ludwig, great sounding drums.

[jayp]

Sick kit, Champagne finish is great love it! I can't wait till I can afford my own vintage ludwig kit

[kacperivo]

wow... i'm breathless. who doesn't like a beautiful vintage luddie... or gretsch... or slingerland :). i'm totally jealous, especially that i won a supraphonic on ebay, about three months ago, and it's still on the way from Alberta... dammit!

[Porker69]

Thanks, it's always been my dream to get vintage Luddies and these were cheap, so I pounced. They sound sooo very good.

And now it's time to buy cymbals. 24" Bosphorous New Orleans Ride here I come. hee hee

[crazyhorse]

Isn't it illegal to have a slingerland snare drum on a ludwig kit?!?! =) That looks to be in incredible shape, nice find!

[Porker69]

Nah crazyhorse I've got a permit so everything is Ok.

Thats a 1975 Slingerland, I dont know the model but it is under the Radio King, and the other snare is a 1976 Crown budget model. Neither are top of the line but they sound better than anyother snares I've played.

[crazyhorse]

Nice!

http://www.wrxhackers.com/SnareDrum/SlingerlandSnare-03.jpg

She's a late 60's model judging by the badge and serial... one snare I'll never let go even if my new stave built stuff is amazing. I was actually using this as my primary snare for a while and now that I've got a new workhorse I'm going to tear her down and polish her up a bit.

[Porker69]

That is one sweet snare crazyhorse.

I dont know if you can tell but on my slingy the throw off and but plate come down and flange away from the drum so you can get longer strainers on and I think make it sound so good.

[Jusstickinaround]

OOOOHHHH, what a lucky man you are!

[Porker69]

Thanks Jusstickinaround but they sound much better than they look. You got some nice Luddies yourself, gotta love the WMP wrap.

My drum teacher was at my house for my weekly lesson and was admiring my ludwigs condishion and sound, and he has a 1950's Gretsch.

[pix]

could you post up the specs? Im keen to know the sizes on the Giant Beat and the Bass Drum.

[Michael G]

YES, I am getting a set similar to one of these babies in MINT. I can't wait.

[gmrakich]

I like the one up grade of a ball joint tom holder. I used to have a champagne sparkle kit..... I miss it.

[fusssion]

I hate to be a party pooper.....and I love your kit Porker, but...

One of two things happened here:
1) That is NOT a 1964 bass drum because the hardware (tom holder) is the diamond shaped base. 1964 had the rail/consolette style tom holders

2) That IS a 1964 bass drum, but ....the hardware was modified to a 70's (or late late 60's) mount. If so,...it was covered up somehow, there should be extra holes somewhere to properly identify this.

3) NOT being a jerk.....I'm trying to help so you know exactly what you have. Please inquire with "Ludwigvondrumcrazy" if you need more...he is LUDWIG GOD on DW !! :)

[Porker69]

fusssion, I dont think your being a jerk, hell your probably right. I never checked the serial #s and the stamp is cleaned off the bass. On the toms the stamp is JAN 9, 1964 or some where around that date, so I just assumed. But I checked and you are right the bass's serial # is in the 1965 era.

and for pix, Specs:
22x14"
14x14"
8x12"

20" Giant Beat Multi
18" Sabian B8 Medium Crash
16" Paiste Alpha Prototype crash
14" Paiste Alpha Prototype hats

and I've got some other old ZBTs and a 21" Alpha Groove Ride floating around

[fusssion]

fusssion, I dont think your being a jerk, hell your probably right. I never checked the serial #s and the stamp is cleaned off the bass. On the toms the stamp is JAN 9, 1964 or some where around that date, so I just assumed. But I checked and you are right the bass's serial # is in the 1965 era.

and for pix, Specs:
22x14"
14x14"
8x12"


Nope....still.....that tom holder bass mount didn't appear till 1968 or 1969

[Porker69]

I dont know what to think then. This is the serial # 289617 on the badge, and on the how to date Ludwigs website it says that #233838 was in October 1965 and #308963 was in March 1966.

Maybe the badges got switched? maybe you could special order a double tom mount? maybe ludwigvondrumcrazy can help us with this?

[fusssion]

I dont know what to think then. This is the serial # 289617 on the badge, and on the how to date Ludwigs website it says that #233838 was in October 1965 and #308963 was in March 1966.

Maybe the badges got switched? maybe you could special order a double tom mount? maybe ludwigvondrumcrazy can help us with this?

MESSAGE HIM...he's very helpful!!

[cjl71178]

I think that it is a '64 bass drum...look at the spurs. This drum could've been a "leftover" and either modified by Ludwig or whoever owned it first. Check and see if there's extra holes where the console rail would've been. Or it could've been a "virgin" bass drum too, and then modified.

The reason I'm thinking that it may be a "leftover" stock bass drum and then used to piece this kit together is because my friend has a late 60's/early 70's red sparkle Ludwig kit in which the bass drum & toms have the blue/olive badges, and his floor tom and matching snare has the keystone badges.

But Ludwigvondrumcrazy is the man to get the real info from.

[somedrummer]

Nice!

She's a late 60's model judging by the badge and serial... one snare I'll never let go even if my new stave built stuff is amazing. I was actually using this as my primary snare for a while and now that I've got a new workhorse I'm going to tear her down and polish her up a bit.

Well, while we're posting pics of our Black Pearl Slingerland snares, I'll throw mine out there:

http://i21.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/9a/fb/d396_12.JPG

[King Crimson]

Absolutely beautiful!!!!

[Porker69]

Fusssion- I messaged LVDC yesterday so this can be put to rest soon :)

cjl- that actually sound the most plausable story, I new Ludwig did some weird things at the factory.

somedrummer- what year is that? it looks late 40's-mid 50's and I love the double flange hoops and looks to be in excellent condishion.

why thank yee King Crimson. :)

and finally an update on the kit. Got myself a deal on ebay for a 20" Bosphorous Trad ride to add to the 24" New Orleans that is coming too. All I need after that is 15" Masters Hi Hats and a Pang Thang to sate my cymbal cravings

[somedrummer]

That snare of mine was sold to me as "Late 50's", so not sure exactly what year. I want to just tell people '58 so it can be from the same year as the rest of the set.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Fusssion- I messaged LVDC yesterday so this can be put to rest soon :)

I'm not so sure about this one, but it's hard to tell anything from those photos..........

First off, as was already mentioned, the Tom Post is the latest generation so most definitely didn't come with that Kit. The Bass Tom Post Mount may have, but not with that black plastic knob, since Ludwig offered a Double Tom Kit with that type of Mount since the early 1960's.

Here is a shot of the Hollywood from a mid-1960's Catalog......

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196977035.jpg

The early versions of this Mount, which they used for a number of years, had the Tom Post held in with a "hardware store" type hex head bolt before Ludwig switched to the black plastic T-handle knob, which anyone could have swapped out (the bolt) at a later date "upgrading" to the more user friendly T-handle..............

One question, does the inside of the Bass Drum have a paint type smell or a "musty" odor, which is easy to determine by putting your nose over the vent hole and tapping on one of the heads to shove a little air out. People who know old Ludwigs know the smell I'm talking about. Without going into detail, I know of at least two guy's who take Vintage Ludwigs and do all sorts of things to them, repainting the interiors AND stamping "new dates" as well as mixing & matching hardware and installing Badges that came off other Drums just to make it useable for resale. Many tired old Marching Toms & Snares live on supplying hardware & badges to "Vintage" Outfits. Don't get me wrong, this is not necessarily a bad thing, the bad thing is that when these Kit's are listed on eBay, or are sold locally, they usually say things like "all original" when describing these "Vintage" Kit's, even on Outfit's having Drums that have been recovered. It's one thing to fix up a Kit but another thing entirely to mis-lead someone, which probably creates years of confusion for the buyer.........................

I'm not saying that this is the case with Porker's Outfit, just giving you some idea that things may not be as they appear, or that Ludwig may not be responsible for all the little anomalies that you may come across. When I come across a Kit that defies all logic I always fall back on "It is what it is" with the main thing being, does it sound good??

The sizes Porker mentioned wasn't a standard Ludwig offering but that means nothing. A friend owns a Shop that his Dad started back in 1960 (they have been Ludwig Dealers since day one) and I know for a fact that if someone walks in the door and wants a certain set-up that is possible to come up with using the components from Kits on the "floor" that it will happen. When the customer leaves a phone call is usually made to the Company to get whatever is needed to make things right again, and, who knows, this may happen more than once to a certain Outfit if it hangs around the shop for any length of time. If the components weren't handy then a call would be made to see how long it would take to get the customer what they wanted, which could have been any combination. Please keep these things in mind when looking at dates & serial numbers and how they fit together on a specific Outfit. Also keep in mind that Ludwig would stamp Badges in batchs and put them in a box to use as needed, which doesn't even take into consideration how the Drums were manufactured and stored until a Kit was pieced together..............................

The only reason I mention all these things is so you see that no matter how hard you may try to figure some things out it can be very hard to draw any firm conclusions if you take all the factors under consideration that would have a bearing on what you are trying to figure out.
One thing is for sure though, and that is, "It is what it is".......................

LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Porker, for what it's worth, here are a couple of major contenders that your Kit may have originated from, if not a special order...................

First, since it has the double Tom Mount on the Bass, as well as a 22", is the Hollywood, shown below in the 1963-64 Catalog when this Outfit had twin 8 x 12 Toms. The shot in my previous post shows it in the "next Catalog," 1966-67, after they made the switch to an 8 x 12, 9 x 13 set-up....................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196862750.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196862772.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196862800.jpg

Because it has the correct size Toms, here's the Downbeat as shown in the 1963-64 Catalog................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196955053.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196955131.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/196955213.jpg


LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Here's another image for ya Porker, from the 1973 Slingerland Catalog.............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13466431/255243537.jpg

LVDC

[Porker69]

Wow, thank you LVDC you certainly know your stuff.

I took a wiff of the bass drum and it definately has the Ludwig must and doesnt smell like paint. They smell just like my uncle's Ludwigs which he bought new in 1967.

I'm going to draw my own conclusion here from the catalogs and say that the toms are from a 1964 Downbeat outfit because the serial #s are only 1000 #s away from eachother and the bass drum is from a 1966 Hollywood outfit with upgraded tom holder and possibly original bass drum tom mount.

The Slingerland is slightly different that those but now I know that it most likely the hollywood ace model

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

I'm going to draw my own conclusion here from the catalogs and say that the toms are from a 1964 Downbeat outfit because the serial #s are only 1000 #s away from each other and the bass drum is from a 1966 Hollywood outfit with upgraded tom holder and possibly original bass drum tom mount.

Now that's what I'm talking about!! Your guess would be as good as mine Porker and that's all it can be, at this point, a guess based on facts as we know them and not what may or not have happened back in 1964, or since that time...................

From your photo's it looks like your Snare may be a ten-lugger but I couldn't make out the Strainer so the Hollywood Ace was about as close as I could get even though it only has eight lugs. I know of another "contender" that I will hunt up and post a picture of, but it has a different Strainer......................

Oh, you're more than welcome!

LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Here's a ten lug model with their TDR Strainer from the 1977-78 Catalog..................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13466431/255309004.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13466431/255309088.jpg

LVDC

[Porker69]

Holy Crap! thats my exact snare drum, I'll put up some pics of the snare strainer later to verify. I knew this was a cool snare but I had no idea.

[fusssion]

DID I TELL YOU TO MESSAGE THAT GUY ?!?!? LOL ......

[Porker69]

Ha ha, fusssion, but thats what you get from a guy named LudwigVonDrumCrazy he should probably just legally change his name.

here is the snare/snare strainer
http://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0003fl6.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0001iz1.jpg

[Porker69]

Updated! I finally got everything in. First pic is the 24" New Orleans Ride.
Full Specs on request
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0586.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0584.jpg
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/Porker69/DSCF0588.jpg

[punkdrummer1]

very nice stuff bro. Congrats :D

[Ozzy Biz]

Hows that 24" New Orleans?

[Porker69]

It's really smoky and dark sounding with a little hint of trashiness, and it's really easy to control, but it is also pretty thin so it crashes well. Basically my perfect cymbal.

[fourstringdrums]

Bosphooooorus *homer simpson drool*

Very nice! That 24" NO must be amazing! I had a 21". It was a great cymbal, just not what I was looking for.

[Ozzy Biz]

It's really smoky and dark sounding with a little hint of trashiness, and it's really easy to control, but it is also pretty thin so it crashes well. Basically my perfect cymbal.

Sounds good, I may just have to try one out. Although, I doubt any of the stores will have one in stock. Maybe a 22"....

[Porker69]

Yeah Ozzy Biz I wouldn't expect to see one anywhere since it was a custom order and took about 4 months.
But a 22" shouldnt be far off, a little higher in pitch

[mofle]

Loveley looking kit. Very jealous.

Specs requested.

[fusssion]

When did you pick up the 16" floor tom? Is it a match? DATE WISE?

[Mr. DrummerMan]

nice I'd like to get some vintage gear some day

[fusssion]

nice I'd like to get some vintage gear some day

eBay all day long........you'll find SOMETHING! :)

[Porker69]

When did you pick up the 16" floor tom? Is it a match? DATE WISE?

I think I got it 3 months ago, it matches color but needs a little shining up. Date wise it's about a '66 so same year as the kick. It reminds me of Mitch Mitchell's old Ludwig kit.

Oh yeah and someone wanted specs
'64/'66 Ludwigs
22,12,14,16
14x5 - '75 Slingerland Buddy Rich snare
cymbals
all Bosphorous
15" Antique hats
20" Trad. Light ride
20" Antique Medium ride
24" New Orleans Ride
all used as crash/rides

[Drummer Karl]

Stunning.
Champagne Sparkle...vintage Ludwig. I mean, what to say?

Oh yes, how is the 22" bass drum for you? Could it produce quite open sounds aswell?

Karl

[Porker69]

Thanks Karl, I like the 22" bass drum I play so many different styles of music so its versatility is great. And yes it sounds really good open, the less muffleing I have on it the more I like it.