New K 22" Dark Medium Ride is great!

[Steamer]

Checked out the new Cindy Blackman model 22" K Dark Medium Ride today at one of the local shops. Of all the new cymbal offerings i've heard from various companies as of late this one has the sound closest to the Tony Williams Nefertiti ride as i've encountered so far for a new production model cymbal. Great mix of stick,wash and a bit of trash all rolled into one with a terrific crash and bell sound too. Another total winner in the Zildjian line IMHO.

[maddrummr]

Thats sweet, i have had my eye on that ride and the descriptions ive heard are definitally to my liking.

Did you compare to any other brands?

[Steamer]

Yes maddrummr some 22" Istanbul Agop Special Edition and Special Edition TW,s and a couple of 25th Anniversary rides. The various Istanbul rides had lots of trash and wash but when played with a fast jazz ride feel lost the stick sound pretty quick as the wash/trash quickly overpowered the stick sound. Also a couple of Sabian 22" rides the Mahattan and a Artisan but these were pretty quiet in comparison and did not have the level of trash or energy of the K 22" Dark Medium Ride. By contrast the K 22" Dark Medium has a lot of cut and bright energy well still mantaining a underlying dark quality to the sound well having a nice wash and touch of trash and good stick sound and did not get out of control in regards to the ride stick sound when played fast and hard. Quite an interesting complex sound for a machine hammered modern cymbal and very much like the sound of the heavier old 22" Istanbul K's Tony Williams used on some of the mid sixties Miles recordings. Very wide and deep pin lathing like you would see or some older Istanbul K's right up into the bell. I think Cindy and Zildjian really hit the mark with this cymbal. I can see it being used by a wide variety of different styles of players with great musical success.

[Steamer]

Of the 2 brought in for testing at one of the local shops I ended up taking one out on loan and have been giving it some critical testing in sessions,rehearsels and a gig. The more I play and get used to it's sound and character the more i'm convinced this is one of the best sounding 22" ride cymbals on the market period at the moment. It has a certain level of intensity and cut well also having a beautiful underlying musical dark wash with just the right amount of trash that makes it a pleasing and complex cymbal well still having the reserve muscle to really crank it out if needed well keeping it's dark character. Very rich and explosive as a crash and with one mean sounding cutting but musical bell.

Think this K 22" Dark Medium Ride gem is quickly coming from being a loaner instrument to having a permanent spot in my cymbal collection.

[Steamer]

Another thing I noticed about this ride is that it gradually gets thinner as you head towards the edge compared to it's thickness up and around the bell and part way down the cymbal. The last 4inches or so has quite alot of flex if you stand the cymbal straight up and gently bend it. This seems to add to it's effective crash quality for a cymbal listed as medium in weight. The general profile has quite a taper too. This is by no means a flat profile 22" cymbal. Getting to know the cymbal better i've actually found about 3 sweet spots for riding with very interesting tonal differences with a wood tip stick. Pretty cool to have on one 22' ride cymbal. Mallet rolls are superb too with rich dark cymbal colors and overtones and a very dynamic full shimmering crash.

[Steamer]

Another important area of note and observation in regards to this ride cymbal i've discovered. When you use a slightly beefier stick with larger tappered tip you can get the full sound capabilities the cymbal can present when playing a ride pattern. A stick like the Cindy Blackman model Zildjian wood tip stick or another wood tip stick with a similar shaped tip and weight really brings out the low end of the cymbal well giving a very distinct ride stick sound that comes through well with a band with a darker attack . A very light jazz type stick with a small acorn tip will not do this cymbal justice and you will get a very high pitched stick sound well not even activating the full lower dark register sound spectrum the cymbal can present as a ride cymbal.

If you try one out in a store do the test yourself. Pretty dramatic sound difference and fully activated cymbal stick sound with a dark character when the right stick is chosen to play this instrument.

[Steamer]

Here's a pic of the Zildjian 22" K Dark Medium Ride. Take note of the wide pin lathing right up to nearly the top of the bell. Same on the underside but not pictured:

[drumbandit]

That's the best cymbal description / review I'v seen lol. I feel I know the cymbal !!
Thanks for that, I'm going to wait until I find a cheap one one ebay.

Tom

[Steamer]

Thanks Tom. I'll try post more of my impressions and findings in actual various group situations as time goes on since i've decided to keep this cymbal in my stable. No way I could part with this fine gem now. Speaking of which it worked out good $$ wise because I put a pre-order on one at the local shop I purchased it from. Originally I asked them get one in for me to try out {they ended up getting 2 which was good} and they gave it to me at a good dealer price and the "will beat anyones price" standard L+M music store chain discount price rate on top of that. They said it was going to be a little more $$ at the new price but they gave it to at the the time of my pre-order back around when the cymbal was first introduced. Sounded like a good deal to me not worth passing up on this fine cymbal.

[Steamer]

A further follow up as promised. Tonight I had a concert with a jazz quartet and a choir and decided to use the the K 22" Dark Medium for the show. The venue was a large hall with an excellent room sound. After the first half with the choir the quartet played a full on instrumental set after the intermission. In this room with good sound and a very high ceiling the ride was just plain KILLING. What a great sound with the band in this room. At the after party the trumpet and piano player asked me what was that ride you were using for the gig tonight. I told them it was my latest find I was trying out. They both said that cymbal was "the deal'" and flat out sounded amazing from their musical perspective during the performance. Frankly I was the most knocked out of everyone hearing this gem of a ride cymbal in this great sounding room with the band tonight.

[drumbandit]

Glad to hear about the deal with the money, and that the gig went well and the ride sounded ' the deal' . Do you think it would hold out in a slightly heavier situation then Jazz, say Indie/rock music?

Tom

[Steamer]

Glad to hear about the deal with the money, and that the gig went well and the ride sounded ' the deal' . Do you think it would hold out in a slightly heavier situation then Jazz, say Indie/rock music?

Tom


Yes I think it will Tom. It has a very 'activated" quality to it's make up and character which should fair well in a wide variety of musical settings. In other words it can take on more of an edge if needed for a louder situation well still cutting through no problem but still keeping it's dark qualities I believe. Again alot of that as I said earlier would depend of the choice of stick used with the ride cymbal.

In the next few months I have several outdoor concerts off and on with one artist in particular that really beefs it up with his wide range of types of tunes in a jazz setting that requires some heavy hitting and intent at times. This will be a good test for the versatility of the cymbal and I will certainly report my impressions Tom on how it delivered at these shows.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Wow, you should give Zildjian a call and ask to be the spokesperson for this ride! Haha, yeah man I tried one of these rides out before at the Arbutus L+M store in Vancouver, and loved every bit of it. What store did ye buy it from?

[Steamer]

Wow, you should give Zildjian a call and ask to be the spokesperson for this ride! Haha, yeah man I tried one of these rides out before at the Arbutus L+M store in Vancouver, and loved every bit of it. What store did ye buy it from?

Same L+M Vancouver store location rendevous drummer. You must have tried sample #2 if it was just recently that you tried one out. It took me half an hour or more of having both side by side to decide which one was going home for some further testing. Both were good but slighty different. Sample #1 was a little drier with just a bit more stick attack. Sample #2 had good qualities too as you noticed if the same cymbal and won't be around the store much longer is my feeling.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Yeah that cymbal will be picked up very soon. I don't have that kind of money at the moment to pick it up, but in two weeks if it's still there, I might be able to purchase it. Sounds like you got the better of the two. I prefer my cymbal to be more dry.

[Skitch]

Thanks for the info; I will have to check on out!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Steamer]

Your welcome Mike. More impressions to come as time goes with this fine cymbal. One other thing I discovered is the pairing of my 22" K Custom Dark Ride and 22" K Dark Medium Ride makes for a wonderful complimentary combo.

[tkillian]

I also have been using this ride for a few weeks in jazz settings.

Its is OUTSTANDING. I 100% agree and concur with the above reviews.

I think it does the Tony Williams vibe BETTER than the agop TW rides by far.

Also, Ive owned 100's of cymbals looking for the "perfect" ride (there is no such thing) and Ive never had so many fellow musicians rave about this one.

A trumpet player I play with said..."That is a bad ass cymbal!"

It has just enough trash and great stick and dark overtones.

I use little jazz sticks and found some to work and others not. Ill try the bigger stick idea.

Ive also heard that some are good and others not...so you might want to play one first. I think they are all a little differents...

Great to hear these are catching on with some drummers...

Highly recommended!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steamer]

Another totally satified owner tkillian very nice to hear. The more i've used it in various playing situations the more i'm impressed. With a slighty heavier stick and a single line ball chain I added after a recent discussion in another thread the vibe is VERY close to the TW Nerfertiti sound. The closet i've heard for a current production cymbal so far IMO after several direct comparisons to various Agops to achieving "the sound".

Enjoy yours tkillian and welcome to the happy 22" K Dark Medium Ride club!.

[rendezvous_drummer]

I was just about to buy this cymbal the other day until I ran into the Sabian 20" Vault Artisan Medium....that my friend is an amazing cymbal. I still might buy the Zildjian if I could get a deal on it.

[Steamer]

No doubt as there was some great cymbal locally to test and try out well putting my new cymbal family together rendezvous drummer including some nice Sabian rides. Congrats on your find in that regard.

The K 22" dark medium ride had a certain old school nasty/trash/dirty underying vibe to it well still having great projection and energy combined with a nice dark wash with a great stick sound and sounded simply fantastic when used in a group situation. That's what sold me on my pic after checking out several good cymbals including a few very nice Sabians over the last month.

[Steamer]

In my continued search for the right stick to get the best stick sound on my new ride I came across a nice stick made by a new Canadian drumstick maker Los Cabos drumsticks.com. at my local L+ M store. The 5B Maple model has just the right combo of size/weight and acorn type tip to deliver the stick sound I was after for the K 22" Dark Medium Ride. Very nice world class quality drumsticks IMHO from this new company.

Here's a link:

http://loscabosdrumsticks.com/

[Featherstone]

Steamer:

I'm a new member here. I bought a new 22" K Dark today. I read all your posts with great interest because I also think this is a cymbal that is very close to the TW sound. I have tried all brands. I have had the Agop TW, a new prototype Agop ride, Bosphorus Masters, Antique, Hammer series, UFIP, Sabian, all kinds.... This K Dark is in a class all by itself.

Have you noticed, in addition to the nice bright attack and dark quality, that it has a slight 'brittle' sound those old K's have? I will look forward to hearing more about the venues you've tried it in. Friday night I'm playing the debut of a new musical in L.A. and I'm going to definitely use the K Dark. It has the projection I was looking for, yet with a compatibility for jazz settings. Amazing... all in one cymbal! Kudos to Zildjian for continuing the quest for the sound we all love.

[Steamer]

Steamer:

I'm a new member here. I bought a new 22" K Dark today. I read all your posts with great interest because I also think this is a cymbal that is very close to the TW sound. I have tried all brands. I have had the Agop TW, a new prototype Agop ride, Bosphorus Masters, Antique, Hammer series, UFIP, Sabian, all kinds.... This K Dark is in a class all by itself.

Have you noticed, in addition to the nice bright attack and dark quality, that it has a slight 'brittle' sound those old K's have? I will look forward to hearing more about the venues you've tried it in. Friday night I'm playing the debut of a new musical in L.A. and I'm going to definitely use the K Dark. It has the projection I was looking for, yet with a compatibility for jazz settings. Amazing... all in one cymbal! Kudos to Zildjian for continuing the quest for the sound we all love.


Hey featherstone welcome aboard both to the forum and the K 22" Dark Medium Ride club.

Oh yes i've also noted the brittle crackle sound of the old K's too in it's mix. Good you brought that up. A pretty interesting and complex musical offering from Zildjian agreed capturing many qualities of some of my all time favorite ride cymbals.

Should sound great with the musical debut. My next big outings with it are some outdoor concerts over the next 6 weeks. I'll let you know my further findings. In the meantime let us know how you liked it for the new show featherstone.

[tkillian]

Im using mine tonight in a piano bass drum, trumpet, alto, tenor...Cannoball Adderly/Jazz Messengers style group...

Cant wait to lay a stick on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steamer]

Im using mine tonight in a piano bass drum, trumpet, alto, tenor...Cannoball Adderly/Jazz Messengers style group...

Cant wait to lay a stick on it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cool it must sound sweet in that group.

[tkillian]

What are you guys using on the left side with this ride?

Im using a K Dark Thin crash 18" that is higher pitched and rideable.

Tk

And BTW, my favorite sticks at this point for this cymbal are

1. Zildjian John Riley- brings out the woody character and keeps the cymbal overtones in check and dry
2. Vic Firth 5A Nylon Tip - for louder stuff. These are still surprisingly dark but with a nice click
3. Vic Firth AJ6 - (for the light dry sound) this stick turns the cymbal into a litte soft jazz old ride thing

I havent tried the Cindy Blackman stick on it yet but wonder if it would make the cymbal sound like Tony Williams' mid 80's and early 90's Modern K

[Steamer]

Hi Tom,

I use a 18" K Custom Dark Crash. Surprisingly thin that opens up easily,very nice with a touch of trash and beautiful full crash. Nice crash cymbal that compliments the 22" K Dark Medium Ride very well.

I really like the Cindy Blackman model stick it brings out a certain balance between the stick sound and activating the lower register of the cymbal. I think Tom the John Riley model would have a similar effect with it's tip design and weight.

[tkillian]

Hi Tom,

I use a 18" K Custom Dark Crash. Surprisingly thin that opens up easily,very nice with a touch of trash and beautiful full crash. Nice crash cymbal that compliments the 22" K Dark Medium Ride very well.

I really like the Cindy Blackman model stick it brings out a certain balance between the stick sound and activating the lower register of the cymbal. I think Tom the John Riley model would have a similar effect with it's tip design and weight.

NICE. I had one of those and now that I think of it, it would probably be a nicer choice than the regular K Dark Thin Crash 18" I have now. The K I have has almost no trash in it, its a little on the drier side...and the crash is great.
Ill have to think about this.
Thanks
TK

[Featherstone]

Just got home from the third of three venues in which I used the K Dark Medium. Friday night was a new musical. Keyboard, bass, horns, guitar, singers. It was great. Saturday and Sunday at church in a large room. Again, full of color, body, and clear uncomplicated stick attack. Tonight, a small club with keys, bass, and blues guitar. It gives you crashes, lots of bell when you need it, and the tone of the wash is still fit for jazz. The wash sounds better than any cymbal I have.

This is, without hesitation, the best cymbal I have ever owned. Somehow, someway, Zildjian got this one right.

I'm using an 18" Evolution crash next to mine. The pitches are almost the same, except that the Evolution picks up where the K Dark leaves off and takes it to the next level.

[willem36]

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum. The K Dark Medium reminds me a bit of the old K Alphonse Mouzon played on the first Weather Report album. I wanted to know if some of you share the same thoughts about that?
Thanks in advance!

[Steamer]

Hi guys,
I'm new to the forum. The K Dark Medium reminds me a bit of the old K Alphonse Mouzon played on the first Weather Report album. I wanted to know if some of you share the same thoughts about that?
Thanks in advance!

Welcome to the forum willem36. Curious of your question I tried to find a old YouTube clip to see how the new K 22" Dark Medium ride would compare to the old Alphonse Mouzon K but no luck so far. Have to see if i can find an old recording to see what I think in comparison to mine.

[Steamer]

Okay willem36 I did find this clip of Alphonse with Weather report on YouTube. Not sure if {or what} the ride is he's playing on this clip is the one your asking about but there is some similarities to my new K 22" Dark Medium Ride sound wise with a good crash sound and the good cut and energy shared by both. Great old clip!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50WEbUCDfjE

[willem36]

Thanks for your reply. Try this one on youtube. That's the same ride is using on the record.
Let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92npTIlPGZ4

[Steamer]

Cool clip. I would say they share a similar crash character and energy well having a dark underlying sound. My sample sounds like it's a little drier with a little more stick presence though than the one on these two clips due to maybe having a slightly heavier weight {?}.

[willem36]

I agree with you. Do you know how much your K Dark Medium weighs in?
Mine tips the scale at 2928gms. Speaking of Al Mouzon, I think he got on that 1st Weather Report record, the ultimate ride sound!

[Steamer]

Not quite sure of the specific weight on mine. It feels beefy though. Funny thing I had a rehearsel with a sax/bass/drum trio for a show this weekend and in the room we used the 22" Dark Medium had lots of spread/wash and not as dry as a couple of larger venues i've heard it in so far. Sounded closer to AM's ride on those clips at this last outing.

Regardless it's a truly great MODERN jazz ride cymbal being one of the very best of the current batch available from a variety of sources IMHO.

[Featherstone]

Hello Stan, and all who are getting turned on to the new K Dark Medium.

I contacted Cindy Blackman and asked her about how they came to get this cymbal sound. Here is what she wrote:

Thanks for your mail & I'm sooooo happy that you like my cymbal!....
The process for me was that I went to Zildjian & gave them a list of sound
qualities, weight regions & some other physical characteristics like bell
size, hammering, shape, lathing ... Paul Francis @ Zildjian worked with me
by doing those things and some other things that he as a cymbal maker
would do in order to create all that I wanted. He made several protypes &
we would alter things here and there to get the right sound.... What you
have is the end result.

Thanks again!

Cindy Blackman

[willem36]

Thanks for the great info! As Cindy is a Tony Williams freak, we can imagine that she wanted to get close to that Tony ride sound.

[Steamer]

Hello Stan, and all who are getting turned on to the new K Dark Medium.

I contacted Cindy Blackman and asked her about how they came to get this cymbal sound. Here is what she wrote:

Thanks for your mail & I'm sooooo happy that you like my cymbal!....
The process for me was that I went to Zildjian & gave them a list of sound
qualities, weight regions & some other physical characteristics like bell
size, hammering, shape, lathing ... Paul Francis @ Zildjian worked with me
by doing those things and some other things that he as a cymbal maker
would do in order to create all that I wanted. He made several protypes &
we would alter things here and there to get the right sound.... What you
have is the end result.

Thanks again!

Cindy Blackman



Many thanks featherstone for doing the leg work contacting Cindy and passing along this info to the forum members. Great stuff!.

And yes quite the end result!. Her collaboration between Zildjian and Paul Francis certainly produced an excellent ride cymbal. Many thanks to Cindy Blackman for her vision on this new ride and seeing it through till Zildjian and Paul got it just right for her sound concept. She's done all us cymbal fans looking for a new modern ride cymbal with it's own character but with several of the good qualities of past great jazz rides a wonderful service.

[Steamer]

Thanks for the great info! As Cindy is a Tony Williams freak, we can imagine that she wanted to get close to that Tony ride sound.

Yes willem36 it would appear her vision got us closer to "the sound". Its heavier than the other 22" TW rides produced today with it's stick always more present than the wash even when played hard and fast in up swing which I believe is one factor that got it closer to some of those classic cymbals we hear on those recordings well still achieving a modern cymbal character at the same time IMO.

[Steamer]

Had my local L+M dealer order me in some other sticks to try out with the K 22" Dark Medium ride from the same Canadian stick company I recently discovered. Had them order in the Los Cabos 5A maple model sticks:

http://loscabosdrumsticks.com/product_view.php?id=1672

At $5.75 Can. a pair they are a great deal and sound perfect for the certain sound I wanted to pull out of the Dark Medium ride being a balance between stick and dark under wash. A fine match to my current favorite the Zildjian Cindy Blackman model but at a much LOWER price being over half the price cheaper than the Zildjian CB at the standard Canadian dealer price on the Zildjian signature models. A very well designed solid and balanced 5A maple stick made in Canada. Cool!.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Yeah I use the Los Cabos Maple Jazz sticks for Jazz. Excellent sticks indeed.

[FullerBrushMan]

Hello....first post here.... long story short, just got the Blackman cymbal.
Just getting back into drumming after 30+ year hiatus....
Played drums in rock bands in late 60's early 70's
since then primary interest has been with the guitar.... have done quite a bit with it and i'm not abandoning my guit jones but.... now i'm squeezing in drums too and i was already crazier than an outhouse rat...

It's been like drinking from a firehose trying to "catch up" both technique & equipment wise..... esp cymbals.... as soon as i think i found what i like my ear "evolves" and my pocket book empties (which wasn't very deep to begin with)

my wife has been understanding but there is a limit and i think i've reached it for a while at least.

Anyhow, current cymbal array is: 14" new beat hats....16" A Custom fast crash..... "the Blackman" and also a second 22" K.... this one being the Custom Dark Ride model...

it's all been very interesting so far ....

this thread is actually partly responsible for getting me started with in the direction that has me now owning two 22" K rides.....

.....so if you're interested, and it seems like you are (ha) .... I had already gone thru a coupla diff rides in the space of only a few weeks and really wasn't finding love, inspiration... whatever..... and I was dingin' and spanking a pantload-O-cymbals
....
then i dinged a Blackman and something stirred way back in my reptilian brain....
i went home and googled the snot out of "K 22" medium dark blackman" etc...
....wound up finding this thread and decided i had to have it.....
....the ecstacy lasted for about two days.... ear evolved and long story (slightly) shorter i went back and scored the 22" K Custom Dark Ride ... which, as all you well seasoned folk know is quite diff from the Blackman.....
I do find that i like the Blackman most when played to music... not so much by itself

here's a couple remarks from cymbalholics re this cymbal.

.................................................. .............................................

22" K Dark Medium

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK... I've got to chime in too. I got one yesterday at the GC in Hollywood. They had received two of them. Someone came in and snapped the first one up. I was fortunate that the other one was still there. Here's my 3 cents:

One of the 'holics said that it was what he had wanted his Medium Constantinople to be, but never was. Exactly my feeling too.

The K Dark I got has a precise silvery attack, yet a caramel after-tone. It's dark but not dark. It wobbles. The metal in the middle of the bow is solid. It gets thinner toward the edge. Off the bell, the metal is semi-solid; not dead sounding. The bell is clear and bright; a sleeping giant.

Back to the stick. The energy generated by the slap does not get 'wasted' in either complex trashiness or lower metallic gonginess. Instead, mine has a mid-range wash much like the Bosphorus Hammer, yet not tinny. Mine seems very heavy. The slap of the shank in different places produces variable slices of shimmer. Some of them high and 'airy,' like I love. This cymbal sounds gorgeous with my VF Joe Porcaro 8A nylon tips. Pure-sounding. Pick up an American Heritage 5A wood tip, and you've got more body, but no less tone.... just louder.

This cymbal seems to have all the qualities I love in a cymbal. It's bright and pure, yet it's got this slightly lower thing going on. It is a musical sound. You can build up the energy like a golden wave. It makes you want to play it. And play it.

If you've been disappointed in multiple purchases of this or that cymbal, then maybe this is the cymbal for you. It was for me.
__________________

22" K Dark Medium

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't you think this ride could remind in some ways the one Alphonse Mouzon
used on the first Weather Report record? I personally think it is not that far.
Mine tips the scale at 2928g.

I love the Dark Medium. Nice blend of tones mix into something that's pretty complex for a machine-made pie. That said, it's also not as polarizing as a K Complex Ride: the Dark Med is a more 'universal' ride, but still very interesting and not lacking in character (like most other modern K's). I also rather like the different stick feel from bell to edge....owing to the thick-to-thin cross sectional taper. If you're looking for a very versatile cymbal, I would concur with Z's marketing spin on this one.

Oh....it's also a nice, cheaper alternative to a 22" SCDR!

....they sure are intriguing little metal disks ain't they? !!

Anyhow ..... i quess that's enough from me for my first post!

Andrew

[Steamer]

Welcome and yes quite the first post FullerBrushMan. I own both the 22" K Custom Dark ride and the 22" K Dark Medium ride and each has it's own distinct voice agreed. The Zildjian Cindy Blackman ride really takes own it's true worth and character for me in a group setting so I agree on that point too. Very happy with both.

Enjoy the 22" K Custom Dark Medium since it's a great ride but hey you still may feel the desire for the CB dark medium model if you hear one played at a gig. I also found just the right wood tip stick brought out the best in this cymbal for me.

[FullerBrushMan]

Welcome and yes quite the first post FullerBrushMan. I own both the 22" K Custom Dark ride and the 22" K Dark Medium ride and each has it's own distinct voice agreed. The Zildjian Cindy Blackman ride really takes own it's true worth and character for me in a group setting so I agree on that point too. Very happy with both.

Enjoy the 22" K Custom Dark Medium since it's a great ride but hey you still may feel the desire for the CB dark medium model if you hear one played at a gig. I also found just the right wood tip stick brought out the best in this cymbal for me.


Oh yea! in fairness i'm still way diggin' 22" K Custom Dark Medium too and have no plan to part with it and -amongst other things- it seems to work very nicely with nylon brushes- and articulates with the brushes much more easily than 22" K Custom Dark Ride which kind of tends to dissappear.

[Steamer]

Ya I like the built in sizzle in the K Custom Dark ride so I know of what you speak regarding it's sound and character. I mount both the 22" K Dark Medium ride and the 22" K Custom Dark ride side by side on my right and they make a fine contrasting pair for musical situations.

[FullerBrushMan]

Ya I like the built in sizzle in the K Custom Dark ride so I know of what you speak regarding it's sound and character. I mount both the 22" K Dark Medium ride and the 22" K Custom Dark ride side by side on my right and they make a fine contrasting pair for musical situations.

I also have them side by side on the right and contrasting is the operative word here, I mean, obviously I'm no expert here but I wouldn't neccesarily describe them as particularly complimentary in that they don't seem to really segway naturally from one to the other (on most tunes) ....

It's more like on any given tune one will tend to be kinda the underdog while the other seems just perfect.

Not that i have any idea what I'm talkin' about here.... I've never had it so good as before I just wound up playing whatever used Zildjians I could find cheap..... back then I only recall there being three kinds of cymbals ....Zildjians, Paiste and junk as all the rest were pot metal (no pun intended)

It's funny, I've owned hundreds of guitars at this point and I find brand loyalty to be laughable and mainly for kids who can't actually tell the difference between a good and bad guitar and therefore need it to be "marked" with a major name such as Gibson or Fender etc... Now i'm just as crazy, at as i only want Zildjians on my kit.... a very long time ago something got permanently planted in my head .....

some things just get permanently programmed ....amps have to be old vacuum tubeFenders and cymbals have to be Zildjians.... it's not just a good idea....IT'S THE LAW!

Old and stuck in my ways.

[Steamer]

Yes you put together what I was getting at as in 2 different sounds on my right when used in different tunes and soloist. They are different enough in many ways to each create different sound/feel textures in the music.

[Steamer]

Another positive attribute of this ride being stick projection at outdoor gigs so I discovered today. Did my first in a series of several concerts as part of the Vancouver International Jazz Festival today and have a few comments to share. The drummers on the same outdoor stage both before and after me both used thin washy dark modern Turkish cymbals and with both drummers well listening to them from out front neither had any stick sound from their cymbals whatsoever even with a mic near them. Only could hear the shank crashes fine but no defined stick sound at all well they played. Quite odd but true and not my cup of tea from a ride cymbal especially under this setting. The 22" Dark Medium Ride does not have this problem at all with lots of projected stick sound even without a mic to help. Had a visiting player from out of town from the audience perspective verify this for me. No problem hearing my stick work well still having an interesting and dark character thing going on at the same time well also giving support to the band. Chalk another up to this fine ride cymbal. The more I hear the more I like.

[jazzin']

Hey Steamer, hows it going? I've noticed you've talked quite a bit about recreating the Williams sixties ride sound. It would seem that you've found it as well.

I just thought I would share my experience with you though as during my Williams stage I found the perfect combo that sounded exactly like the Davis band at the time.

The ride I have now is a 22" Dry Light ride which normally is obviously, very dry with a very strong stick definition. With a small stick there is not much wash at all. But, what I'm getting at is that with a certain stick, in my case the Vater Sugar Maple Piccolo sticks, I was certain I had the exact sound of Tony's ride sound down! The larger stick added the extra wash while still keeping the ultra definition of the ride.

Whenever I play uptempo's I switch to this combo as I have found it unbeatable. It's a joy to play as well.

From your review though, I am going to check out the Dark Medium.

[Steamer]

Hi jazzin,

Are you talking about the 22" pre-aged dry light ride you can let me know. Read my thread about it under discontinued modern K's. That cymbal certainly has the sound of some of Tony's early rides. It's earned a permanent spot in my collection since purchased new in 92. The 22" dark medium ride has the sound of some of the heavier old K's he used on some recordings. Best of both worlds for certain gigs/ playing situations having both rides.

Today the K 22" dark medium ride gets used for afternoon outdoor concert and tonight the 22" K pre-aged dry light ride get used paired with a 20" K Con light for a indoor piano trio gig.

[FullerBrushMan]

Hey ... i don't know much about cymbal making... can anyone tell me what the black marks are from on this cymbal.... those darker black smudge lookin' things inside some of the hammer marks??
Andrew

[Steamer]

Hey ... i don't know much about cymbal making... can anyone tell me what the black marks are from on this cymbal.... those darker black smudge lookin' things inside some of the hammer marks??
Andrew

Easy. Deep hammer marks not touched by the lathing tool. In other words deep unlathed parts of the actual cymbal. My 20" K Con Light has these too other than my 22" dark medium ride.

I LOVE THIS RIDE!. At at full on smoking afternoon show today it sounded the best so far on a big outdoor stage with a group. It will react dynamically to everything you can throw at it and want to present playing wise. From quiet playing to full on taking a bite out burning swing and shank crashes it delivers the goods big time all in one cymbal with lots of guts to spare well keeping a underlying dark character and wash going at the same time. A new bar has been set in the production of the best sounding modern jazz ride cymbal IMHO.

[FullerBrushMan]

Thanks Stan, that's interesting... for some reason i'd assumed they were lathed and then hammered afterward. i just looked at some of those marks with a lighted magnifier and they're pretting interesting in that they look like gritty composite sandpaper that has little sparkly diamond grit in it....
...they look like if you rub your finger on it it should feel rough, like sandpaper but the spots actually feel smooth to the touch.

anyway... these certainly are fascinating disks and i feel lucky that i happened to zero in on this one just when i'm getting back with the drums

....so many times the hype just doesn't even come close to reality and for that reason alone i'm always a little wary of the "latest and greatest new thing" shortly to be forgotten by all but the marketing people who copped a pay raise out of it.

... and sound is such an ephemeral quick silver vapor of a thing.....

....this one -i think- does indeed have some actual fairy dust in it! amazing.

[Steamer]

Yes FullerBrushMan hammered first followed by lathing. They are deeper sections of the guts of cymbal so to speak that were untouched in the deep hammer marks by the lathing tool.

Yes no hype here it delivers the goods big time.

[FullerBrushMan]

Is there a quick and dirty explanation - oversimplification - or blurb of some such that explains what hammering vs lathing does for the sound of a cymbal?

I know that some folk will hand hammer a store bought cymbal to cutomize it to their taste.

.... i did try this with a Sabian B8 and had some very promising results until, due to my inexperience....passed thru the sweet spot and ruined it.... A worthwhile learning eperience on a cheap cymbal..

Anyway, in my ignorance i had assumed (as i stated before) that the hammering since it was originally done by hand was how they did the final "tuning" on the cymbal....
....and after having survived the aforementioned experiment i maybe have a little idea of the effect of hammering on the cymbal so i suppose my main curiosity is regarding the effect of lathing on the sound? (apologies for the off topic-ness of this post)
thanks,
Andrew

[Steamer]

Here you go FullerBrushMan a simple step by step explanation in this video about how Zildjian cymbals are made:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VUBV08AdUc

[FullerBrushMan]

Still on dialup here so can't see videos
.... does the lathing help to disperse or spread the sound? I went thru every bit of verbage on cymbalholics and they never discuss lathing in any of their self important articles?

[FullerBrushMan]

I found some helpfull info here http://www.answers.com/topic/cymbal-making

this gave me what i was looking for as i can't view much video with the connection i have (dialup)

Andrew

[jazzin']

Hi jazzin,

Are you talking about the 22" pre-aged dry light ride you can let me know. Read my thread about it under discontinued modern K's. That cymbal certainly has the sound of some of Tony's early rides. It's earned a permanent spot in my collection since purchased new in 92. The 22" dark medium ride has the sound of some of the heavier old K's he used on some recordings. Best of both worlds for certain gigs/ playing situations having both rides.

Today the K 22" dark medium ride gets used for afternoon outdoor concert and tonight the 22" K pre-aged dry light ride get used paired with a 20" K Con light for a indoor piano trio gig.


No, not the pre aged one. Though that is pretty nice. It's just the 22" K Custom Dry Light ride. Very nice.

[Steamer]

No, not the pre aged one. Though that is pretty nice. It's just the 22" K Custom Dry Light ride. Very nice.

Cool. I haven't checked that one out yet jazzin'.

[Steamer]

Well if I wasn't totally convinced i'd found my grail ride before I certainly am without a shadow of doubt now once and for all. Had a piano player friend in town from Boston who was playing concerts and sharing teaching ensemble coaching duties with me all this week at a jazz camp check out my 22" K Dark Medium ride finally today. His first comment well listening to it from out front during a faculty rehearsal was that's "the sound" Stan and a certain drummer who's name starts with "T" and a certain ride from the sixties was mentioned. He said from a ensemble /musical perspective don't use anything other than that ride from now on was his advice.

We both listened to one of the top drum students I coached using my cymbals well playing a up swing with his ensemble at a outdoor stage concert today. Well sitting out front and listening to the band without a microphone/sound system on the drums we both looked at ourselves and smiled at the same time without saying a word well hearing this killer sounding ride in this jazz setting.

Used it tonight with the big wrap up concert with a 17 piece Big Band and it delivered everything I needed yet again. The search is over once and for all for my grail jazz ride folks. This cymbal is the real deal no doubt in my mind.

[Latin Groover]

Well as this thread relates to Cindy Blackman i was wondering what ride she is using in the new clips. Sorry if it cam up, i don't read the whole thread, it doesn't seem to be her dark medium ride but maybe an aged prototype of it? Does anyone know what it is?

[Trip McNealy]

Glad to hear so many like this cymbal. I have to try one out sometime in the music shop.. I'm a SABIAN user but this ride has caught my eye for a long while :)

[Highway Child]

Interesting to read all the K experts' comments, any of you tried the K Heavy? How would you describe it in comparison? I just got a 20" K heavy - love it lots.

[Steamer]

The stick is prominent over the dark wash in the 22" dark medium ride but does not dominate the overall character of it's cymbal sound. This 22" medium weight cymbal still has a touch of trash and nice overall dark wash and due to the noticable tapering towards the edge crashes very nicely for a 22" ride. The 20" heavy K in weight cymbal would have a more cleary noticable defined stick sound with less wash and trash but will still have a dark underlying quality in it's sound. These are the differences as I see it between the two ride cymbals.

[Latin Groover]

Ahhh but what does Cindy Blackman use in the clips...

[Steamer]

Latin groover I was reading on another site this morning that it was one of Tony's old early sixties 22" Turkish K's borrowed by Cindy from Wallace Rooney for this particular DVD recording session.

[Latin Groover]

Latin groover I was reading on another site this morning that it was one of Tony's old early sixties 22" Turkish K's borrowed by Cindy from Wallace Rooney for this particular DVD recording session.

It is a beautiful cymbal. Im looking at getting the Istanbul 22" TW ride but we will see in 1 month. I tried some today but i didn't like the Turks too much.

[Steamer]

It is a beautiful cymbal. Im looking at getting the Istanbul 22" TW ride but we will see in 1 month. I tried some today but i didn't like the Turks too much.


Yes Latin Groover try out as many different rides as possible and don't cut the Zildjian 22" Dark Medium out of the mix. Pretty amazing cymbal too probably the best modern Zildjian going as are several Istanbul Agops rides i've checked out.

Did you try out one of the thin 20" or 22" Istanbul Agop Turk Jazz rides or just the standard heavy models ones. The thin Turk 22" Jazz ride is simply amazing IMO for acoustic jazz situations.

[Latin Groover]

Yes Latin Groover try out as many different rides as possible and don't cut the Zildjian 22" Dark Medium out of the mix. Pretty amazing cymbal too probably the best modern Zildjian going as are several Istanbul Agops rides i've checked out.

Did you try out one of the thin 20" or 22" Istanbul Agop Turk Jazz rides or just the standard heavy models ones. The thin Turk 22" Jazz ride is simply amazing IMO for acoustic jazz situations.

It was a 21" Turk ride, just wasn't for me. It had very a dry, heavy, earthy tone to it. I'm looking for something lighter. If i can find the K Dark Medium ill give it shot.

[Steamer]

It was a 21" Turk ride, just wasn't for me. It had very a dry, heavy, earthy tone to it. I'm looking for something lighter.

Ask your local dealer to get the thin lighter Agop Turk Jazz models in to try out and you will amazed with the sound they produce Latin Groover particularly the 22" model. Nothing like the thicker regular Turks at all in several ways. Amazing 22" jazz ride cymbal. Very different than the 22" K Dark Medium but still an outstanding ride on it's own merits

[Latin Groover]

Ask your local dealer to get the thin lighter Agop Turk Jazz models in to try out and you will amazed with the sound they produce Latin Groover particularly the 22" model. Nothing like the thicker regular Turks at all in several ways. Amazing 22" jazz ride cymbal. Very different than the 22" K Dark Medium but still an outstanding ride on it's own merits

No stores around me can get Istanbul or Bosphorus, with the exception of 1 just over an hour away, but i went there 2 days ago and they arn't that great of a store. No, the way im getting my Istanbuls, and are through people i know who do what Tony does with cymbalsonly but just not on the net.lol. But still dirt cheap and i can play the cymbals this way. I would never buy cymbals over the net, i just cant do it. They are getting a new load in in about a month, i told them what i was looking at, and now i just have to wait. In terms of prive they look after me. I could've had the Turk for $300AUD if i wanted it.

[Steamer]

No stores around me can get Istanbul or Bosphorus, with the exception of 1 just over an hour away, but i went there 2 days ago and they arn't that great of a store. No, the way im getting my Istanbuls, and are through people i know who do what Tony does with cymbalsonly but just not on the net.lol. But still dirt cheap and i can play the cymbals this way. I would never buy cymbals over the net, i just cant do it. They are getting a new load in in about a month, i told them what i was looking at, and now i just have to wait. In terms of prive they look after me. I could've had the Turk for $300AUD if i wanted it.


Good luck on the ride cymbal hunt. Sounds like you have a good plan in place just a matter of playing the waiting game at this point.

[tkillian]

Im actually thinking of selling/trading my K Dark Medium !!

Anyone interested just PM me.

Im hearing something drier and heavier actually!

[Steamer]

What do you have in mind to replace it?

[tkillian]

If I had the money right now it would be a Sound Creation Dark Ride 22"....

Since I dont have the money and I know I wont find one for $300 then MAYBE Ill go back to the Paiste Dark Energy Mark 2-22"....which I had before the K.

The K is a little washier and metalic than Im hearing and feeling....

I like that dry sound

[Steamer]

Had a Paiste 20" Sound Creation years ago in the early 80's that was very nice that I sold to an old student of mine who lives in Taiwan now and he still rants about it.

Good luck with your next purchase T and hey maybe a standard heavier 22" Agop Turk might suit your needs. Saw Dennis Chambers playing a 22" pre-split Istanbul Turk back in 88 and it was stunning and cut through an electric jazz setting with Mike Stern very well and still kept a dark character in it's mix.

[Steamer]

Yikes we appear to be experiencing the mass migration from the once happy 22" K Dark Medium Ride club.

I still think it's one very decent Zildjian ride cymbal but I sold mine too recently only due to being won over completely by the creations of Istanbul Agop which follow more closely to what my jazz ear was really hearing in a ride cymbal and cymbals in general.

[tkillian]

Hah...

BTW, I havent sold mine...yet...

Hey..it IS a great cymbal...really, really nice...Im just looking for a different sound

Also, they are all different. I played one in a store that was a lot pinger, metallic than mine.

On cymbalsonly.com there is a thinner and a heavier one...etc..

[Crusto 62]

Hey Steamer, read your review about the K 22" dark medium ( you should do cymbal reviews for a drum mag ) so I went and bought one and it is one beautiful ride cymbal. For the past 25 years I have used a 20" zildjian A crash/ride which has been a great workhorse but it was time for a change. Thanks, it's a great cymbal.

[Steamer]

Hey Steamer, read your review about the K 22" dark medium ( you should do cymbal reviews for a drum mag ) so I went and bought one and it is one beautiful ride cymbal. For the past 25 years I have used a 20" zildjian A crash/ride which has been a great workhorse but it was time for a change. Thanks, it's a great cymbal.


Boy this thread is a blast from the past Crusto. Glad you like the K Dark Medium ride. I still come in contact with my old sample at a local recording studio as with all my previously Zildjians I owned before making the switch to playing Istanbul Agop cymbals exclusively. Certainly the dark medium is a fine ride cymbal I just got closer to the exact character I was after with Agop especially again most recently in regards to the new 22" Lenny White Signature Epoch ride that really hit the target zone I was after right on the money for a certain new meets vintage Turkish sound vibe for acoustic jazz.

Enjoy your new pie!

[puncturedsphere]

I too picked one of these up, several months ago, to replace the Zildjian A Medium Ride I've been using the better part of the last 2 decades. I like the versatility of the sounds that it is capable of giving. I play mostly rock and pop type stuff as I'm pretty much just in your typical bar cover band deal right now, and it lives up to that task just great. Its good to know that if I ever find myself playing jazz again that it'll be able to work in that role as well, and much better that my old A Medium.

I did find that switching to a stick with a beefier neck (5Aish sticks, from the 11A's I've always used) that I can coax a more definitive, cutting sound for the rock music. The bell on this thing is killer, too.

I'm now hunting for the perfect pair of hats to complement this ride. I've always used a vintage set (1970's, maybe earlier) of Zildjian 15" hats, exact denomination unknown, and they are a bit heavy and sluggish for my liking. I've been searching for some 14" hats, something a bit on the darker side, that would complement this rides sound and have similar versatility. I've been eyeing the K Custom Darks and got to tap on some last time I was at a drum shop, but really I need to get my ride there and see how they sound together. I was looking at the Paiste Dark Energy Mk1's online too, but can't find any in any of the shops within driving distance to see how they sound in person.

[Steamer]

I too picked one of these up, several months ago, to replace the Zildjian A Medium Ride I've been using the better part of the last 2 decades. I like the versatility of the sounds that it is capable of giving. I play mostly rock and pop type stuff as I'm pretty much just in your typical bar cover band deal right now, and it lives up to that task just great. Its good to know that if I ever find myself playing jazz again that it'll be able to work in that role as well, and much better that my old A Medium.

I did find that switching to a stick with a beefier neck (5Aish sticks, from the 11A's I've always used) that I can coax a more definitive, cutting sound for the rock music. The bell on this thing is killer, too.

I'm now hunting for the perfect pair of hats to complement this ride. I've always used a vintage set (1970's, maybe earlier) of Zildjian 15" hats, exact denomination unknown, and they are a bit heavy and sluggish for my liking. I've been searching for some 14" hats, something a bit on the darker side, that would complement this rides sound and have similar versatility. I've been eyeing the K Custom Darks and got to tap on some last time I was at a drum shop, but really I need to get my ride there and see how they sound together. I was looking at the Paiste Dark Energy Mk1's online too, but can't find any in any of the shops within driving distance to see how they sound in person.

Yes I can see how this ride would be very well suited to the types of situations you mentioned. It was a little to bright and had a wee bit to much cut and volume for most of types of acoustic jazz I play I found over time especially noted in smaller venues. Still a nice cymbal don't get me wrong. My recently added Epoch ride which is in the same weight range class as my old dark medium has a much better character mix/vibe for my type of jazz playing situations and is much darker and more complex in tone directly compared side by side {which we did in the studio quite recently} to my old dark medium ride.

I found the perfect hats to match the dark medium when I was a Zildjian guy were a pair of 13" Zildjian K Light hats. Good combo at the time.