Rim-shots on downbeats

[texdrumr]

I just wanted to see who else hits rim-shots on most 2 and 4 downbeats. If I'm playing jazz or in church I usually switch to traditional and play just on the head, but if I'm playing anything louder, I hit 'em big.

What are the advantages/disadvantages to this? Preferences? Talk it out.

[Ruok]

I almost never hit rim-shots. The reason? I can't do them!!! I stink at it. Actually, I've only started practicing rim-shots this year and I'm not improving very fast at all. I play traditional grip and I am having a hard time playing consistent rim-shots. So, until I get good enough at it, I'm hitting the head only with an occasional rim-shot using the right hand (which I find easy) for an accent or two. Not playing rim-shots hasn't been a problem really, since most of the music I play is soft to medium volume.

[NatureOfDeviance]

I almost always play rim-shots on downbeats. I think the snare sounds way better this way if you are playing heavy music.

[zachg]

I probably hit rim shots on the downbeats more than I dont. I only dont do rimshots on the downbeats if I am playing quieter music.

[finnhiggins]

I think you may all mean "backbeats" - that's the opposite of a downbeat. The bass drum usually falls on the downbeat, unless you're talking about inverting the usual groove and playing snare on the 1 & 3...

[NatureOfDeviance]

Your right...I meant backbeats...my bad.

[h3r3tic]

I wouldn't consider a rim-shot being a disadvantage, because rim-shots are just another way to hit the drum, in other words, to play louder. I would say that the use of rim-shots are up to you... It's all about dynamics...

[Spreggy]

Lots of people do them, I don't. I use three main sound levels, a very light grace note like Garibaldi teaches (an inch off the head, sounds real cool now that it's coming together), a medium pocket backbeat, and the fill/high dynamics hit, which is a hearty whip that buries the needles. So volume-wise I just don't need to do rims. This is only on rock gigs of course.

[Wavelength]

So volume-wise I just don't need to do rims..

The rimshot is also a timbral variation, not just for louder dynamics. Some things require the use of rimshot to sound right.

[texdrumr]

Backbeat, you're right. Got my terminology mixed up.

And I agree that's it's not just louder, but it's a timbral variation. I find it really brings out the whole character of the drum. For instance, rim shots on my wood hoop Keplinger really gives a wide, warm sound. Just a strike on the head to me brings out a less characteristic sound.

[ermghoti]

Your right...I meant backbeats...my bad.

You have a Vrusk avatar, so I'll let it slide this time.

[JCM]

If you play rimshots you better have a lot of spare sticks!!

[h3r3tic]

If you play rimshots you better have a lot of spare sticks!!

are you crazy?? you don't need too much sticks... just let the stick do what it wants when hitting the rim and the head at the same time

[Paul Quin]

Over the last couple of years I have seen several threads devoted to whether or not one should play rim shots - whether the ability to play them is "necessary" or whether their application is only for those who want to play loud. To be honest, I have read these threads with a sense of bemusement and wonder. I promise that if you want to play seriously - whatever genre you play (from rock to jazz to funk to gospel to country to metal) - you must have control of your rim shots. They are absolutely essential. Whether you are playing some 80's style funk which relies on a rim shot for the backbeat, to playing jazz which relies on rim shots for the specific timbre of certain accents you MUST be able to play rim shots with either hand at will. This is not a stylistic piece of cake icing - it is essential. Rim shots are not all about volume - although it certainly make an accent much clearer. Rim shots serve the purpose of providing a different tone or timbre and "crack" to your playing. The snare drum (in particular) is an instrument with multiple sounds which can be adduced depending on your technique and on where you hit the drum. Taking account of its acoustic variables provide much of the interest within a particular groove. Part of that interest stems from a correctly played and correctly positioned (within the measure) rim shot. To deny the rim shot's necessity is to remove the most fundamental aspect of that acoustic diversity.

The good news is that practise makes perfect - and you can learn accurate use of the rim shot in much less time than you can learn proficient use of any of the basic rudiments. If you can't do it - practise until you can. And then use it only when appropriate. You will find that your playing takes on a much more intense sense of dynamism and allows much more variability within your grooves. It is that acoustic diversity which makes the playing of many serious drummers so interesting.

Just my thoughts

Paul

[foursticks]

I'm with Paul on this one, especially in jazz. Just because the snare in jazz tends to be softer doesn't mean rim-shots have no use at all. I tend to use them when I'm accenting a certain note on the snare and I want to wake everybody up ;-)

But seriously, just listen to any decent or great jazz drummer and they'll use rim-shots in their solos, whilst comping and even on the toms.

[h3r3tic]

I'm with Paul on this one, especially in jazz. Just because the snare in jazz tends to be softer doesn't mean rim-shots have no use at all. I tend to use them when I'm accenting a certain note on the snare and I want to wake everybody up ;-)

But seriously, just listen to any decent or great jazz drummer and they'll use rim-shots in their solos, whilst comping and even on the toms.

I agrre with you too! 100%

[Ruok]

I believe you guys are right. I almost totally ignored rimshots for decades thinking that they were only about volume. I spent most of my time learning to play quietly, never realizing how effective rimshots could be in all types of music, whether it's loud music or not. Now I see their use is important for various sounds and I know now what an idiot I've been for not practicing them more. I've got a lot of catching up to do.

[wooltonboy]

Geez, I can't remember the last time I struck my snare without doing a rimshot on the backbeat.
I must be good at it, because I never miss!..lol
I come from the "school of Ringo", so I guess that's how I started.
To me it sounds sooo much better with that nice "crack" on the backbeat.
It does fray the shoulder of the stick though, especially with die-cast hoops.
Cheers
Phil

[Diaz]

When playing live, all the time, dunno why its just a rock out thing.

[d.c.drummer]

If you went into my practice room and saw "the stick graveyard" (as my mom calls it, i refuse to throw them away) you would quickly deduce im all rimshots all the time. I am big tome gospel, jazz, indie rock and fusion. With the exception of jazz and some indie my playing demands big rimshots.

One of my y guitarist called me the loudest on drums that he knows (i play modern rock with him). That wasnt exactly a complement (he swore no offense). Dynamics are very important so all rimshots all the time isn't all good, but hey, its fun. PLAY LOUDER =P

[JCM]

I meant that rim-shots wear your sticks out faster than normal shots.

[Alesi]

I do this also... i don´t know why, it sounds a lot better for me, but really i don´t THINK how i´m going to play this tune or that tune, i let the music tell me how the backbeat should be sounding

[Pete Stoltman]

Paul really put this topic in perspective. Nice post. I would just like to add that for any of you who are interested in expanding your musical vocabulary it's also nice to have the ability to do rimshots on your toms as well. I do this very sparingly on some jazz/latin tunes and it can be a nice effect when done properly. This is not a backbeat sort of thing but usually done in the context of a fill. Again as Paul already stated it's not done for volume but to add another "voice" to my music.

[GrooveSlave]

I was in the camp that ignored rim shots completely.

Not anymore.

I've been working on them lately and I totally agree about the timbre thing. I also suggest experimenting with having the stick land dead center in the snare and moving it out towards the edge. I.e. have the bead of the stick land closer to the rim. It makes a much funkier sound and is also a bit more quiet. Rachet up the funk.

[Flamacue]

The best thing about a rim shot is there's more then one type you can get, and they all change the feel of a riff, as each has it's distinct sound. The deep rim shot, where your tip hits the far side, away from the center. Then the center hit rim shot. And of course my favorite, the close edge shot, where your stick is only over about 3-4 inches of the drum. I don't like ring in my snare drum typically, but once in awhile I like to get a timbale style ring, and that's the honey spot, it can be ghosted quite nicely too. To the non-drummer it sounds like I'm hitting a whole separate drum.

And as far as the guys that are struggling for consistency, note what some have already said here. You're not hitting the drum with all that force and over the head stick height. Keep it down, controlled, and work it more from the wrist then the arm. If your arm is parallel inline with the drum rim, and all you're doing is rotating the wrist, you'll get that rim/head combo every time, think of it as a "natural point of aim". Once you're got that down, you can see where you need to be, and over time evolve it into use with an arm movement if that’s your style.

Think of the trombone player, he doesn't have keys, he has arm positions (along with embouchure of course), It takes a bit of time to perfect those positions, but once you do get them, it’s a solid trained thing. All we’re talking about here is position of the wrist and arm, and you’ll get them every time.

[Ruok]

And as far as the guys that are struggling for consistency, note what some have already said here. You're not hitting the drum with all that force and over the head stick height. Keep it down, controlled, and work it more from the wrist then the arm. If your arm is parallel inline with the drum rim, and all you're doing is rotating the wrist, you'll get that rim/head combo every time, think of it as a "natural point of aim". Once you're got that down, you can see where you need to be, and over time evolve it into use with an arm movement if that’s your style.

Think of the trombone player, he doesn't have keys, he has arm positions (along with embouchure of course), It takes a bit of time to perfect those positions, but once you do get them, it’s a solid trained thing. All we’re talking about here is position of the wrist and arm, and you’ll get them every time.

Thanks Flam.

It really does seem simple. I appreciate your advice.

[hauk]

I think you may all mean "backbeats" - that's the opposite of a downbeat. The bass drum usually falls on the downbeat, unless you're talking about inverting the usual groove and playing snare on the 1 & 3...

Well he does mean backbeats, but technically downbeats aren't just on 1 and 3 - they are on 1, 2, 3, and 4. The up beats are the &s for all those beats. 4 beats in a measure = 4 downbeats in a measure.

As for rimshots, I use them a lot. It's fun to do them with the bead not just in the center of the head but in varying distances from the rim to get drastically different sounds. I recently raised my toms some (to get them flatter) and have started experimenting with rimshots there too. Good stuff.