Open Handed playing v/s Cross over

[geek_boy_in]

Hello Friends,

First of all a small background ..... I had played for a couple of years .. and then left drumming for around 6 years and then have started it around 1.5 years ago again ...... my hectic job leaves me with little time to practice.... and I play drums purely for self fulfillment and frankly speaking I bear no ambition to become a famous musician .... its more of a hobby and de-stressing myself....... btw am a right handed person.

Ok now ...... around 1 year ago I started practicing open handed.... well initially it was difficult but slowly the basic 16th note rock patterns and latin patterns became easier ........ everything is slow and fine .... but there is a problem .... whenever I want to play to a music or jam imprompto ...i can't stop my right hand from taking the lead ...... its like my creative side is getting stopped if I am playing open handed with left handed leading on the hi-hat .....

Now in retrospect ... several questions are coming to my mind ....... Was the effort to play Open Handed worth it ??? ..... Ok My left hand has become quite strong ... but still my natural tendency to lead by right hand is still there ...... Wouldn't it have become more useful If I had practiced for the last 1 year with my natural right hand taking the lead ?? ....... Instead of wasting time on teaching my weaker left hand to play basic 16th notes probably I would have been playing better Today teaching my right hand the advanced stuff ......... For a person pressed for practice time was my 1 year a waste ???....

for example Reggae grooves ... i find it so comfortable with my right hand leading on the hi-hat ......... .. well dont' know whether it is a phychological thing or Actually Left hand is still weaker ? ......

Please share Your experiences as right handed players going open hand ......... The lefty's can also tell about how they taught their weaker right hand/leg to lead ..........

I read somewhere in this forum ...... how some experienced players advised that trying to play double bass is not worth the effort and time considering the value you obtain in Return.

Thanks......

[aboylikedave]

I am convinced I have a 'sides of the brain' this in that certain things are easiest with one side, regardless of habit or strength. For example although I am left handed I cannot play left handed cos my left foot is less happy keeping rhythm than my right...even tho my left foot is miles stronger and faster.

I also have a theory that it may be easier synching LH/LF as opposed to LH/RF. For example playing BD accented open hi hats (i.e. HHhand/BD the HHclose/SD) are very very hard for me to play open handed as the opposite ands and feet are playing at the same time. I'm getting better but it was harder initially.

I would love to know the science but, given that certain sides of the brain are meant to be for different things it make sense perhaps?

[aboylikedave]

I am convinced I have a 'sides of the brain' thing in that certain things are easiest with one side, regardless of habit or strength. For example although I am left handed I cannot play left handed cos my left foot is less happy keeping rhythm than my right...even tho my left foot is miles stronger and faster.

I also have a theory that it may be easier synching LH/LF as opposed to LH/RF. For example playing BD accented open hi hats (i.e. HHhand/BD the HHclose/SD) are very very hard for me to play open handed as the opposite ands and feet are playing at the same time. I'm getting better but it was harder initially.

I have heard the LH side of the brain is where rhythm is based and since this controls the RH and RF is it relevant?

Of course as drummers we all need use both sides of course.....

[anp27]

Hi, I'm a right-handed person who plays open-handed on the drumset.. I've always played this way, I'm not a right-handed drummer who decided to switch, as you are. I'm not sure how or why I started playing like this, I have always felt more comfortable this way, and it seemed more natural to me. I play ALL patterns/ grooves leading with my left, when playing drum fills, I usually lead with my left, but I found that some fills are more suitable played leading with the right, since I am playing a 'right handed' set-up anyway.
I've actually tried practicing leading with my right, but it felt too weird, so I gave up.. I think I'll be playing open-handed till I die, I guess..
I don't think that one year you spent practicing leading with your left was a waste, I mean, at least your left hand is stronger now then it was before, right?
The question of which sides of the brain controls what is quite deep, and very subjective. Take me, for instance. I play leading with the left, but I'm right-footed, and I write with my right hand. I guess I have a pretty messed-up brain!
My opinion is that you should just play the way that feels most comfortable to you, as long as it's practical and you can execute anything you hear in your head with ease, in the end, there are really no 'wrongs' or 'rights', although I've been told many, many times that my technique is wrong. Well, if I'm wrong, then so is Carter Beauford, Billy Cobham, Simon Phillips, Lenny White (who even plays right hand traditional grip!), Will Kennedy, Bobby Jarzombek.. all these drummers I mentioned play open handed, and are AWESOME drummers..

Just find out which playing style you feel most comfortable with, you can only discover this on your own.

Here's some videos of me playing, just in case you're curious:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5WkRHFm5Tk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIM82Wn-EKI

[aboylikedave]

ANP I really love your video. I loved the Billy Cobham trad grip on your right hand!! Can I ask how that came about?

[anp27]

hey.. thankx.. I included the vid 'cause its so much easier to see what I'm talking about.
Anyway, yeah.. the trad. grip. That came from when I started playing jazz, I noticed that a lot of jazz drummers used the trad. grip, so I tried experimenting with it, to see if there was a difference.. and I've been playing that way ever since. It was only after a few years later that I found out that Lenny White and Billy Cobham played this way, it was funny 'cause I started playing right hand trad. grip even before I watched videos of Billy and Lenny, and all along I thought I was the first drummer to ever play that way! hahaha

[aboylikedave]

I suppose the logic was 'trad grip on the snare hand'.

[anp27]

I suppose the logic was 'trad grip on the snare hand'.

Yes, I guess.. to make a long story short, yeah.

[Deathmetalconga]

I have been playing for 24 years and I've always played open. I am right handed, but my first instructor played open and insisted I did too.

There is no "right handed" or "left handed" way of playing drums. There are many things people do that do not impose a preference for one hand or the other - typing at a keyboard, for example. However, it is very rare for people to cross their hands to do anything, because it is awkward and unnatural. No one crosses their hands to play other musical instruments, to type, drive, use tools, cook, eat, video games or anything else I can think of. To me, playing open is natural and people who have to cross their hands to play are really the ones playing left-handed. The snare drum is the heart of the drum set and I think handedness, if one is wrapped up in that, should be be determined according to which hand you play on the snare.

If you want to play snare with your left hand, then you should put your hihat stand on the right and run a control cable to your left foot. This would be expensive, but it sounds like it's natural for your brain to coordinate your body like that. You should listen to your body and either play crossed or, if you want the benefits of playing open, put your hihat on the right.

Even people who play crossed like to play open every chance they get. I've never, ever seen a crossed player put their ride cymbal on the left. They like it on the right so they can play open. So why just not put the hihat there next to the ride, on the right? Modern cable stands allow that every easily.

[Flamacue]

I am left handed, and always played the set crossed over. As a lefty playing snare in a marching band, I was forced to play rightly anyway, because the strokes have to match side by side with the other snares...add to that every set I ever saw, sat behind, or watched others play, was crossed over aka right handed, so I just learned that way.

I like crossed over because for sticking purposes it trained me to lead with the right frequently, and I fell it's more comfortable going down the toms when you lead with your right...conversely leading with the left gets you up the toms with ease...be that as it may, it’s really a matter of preference. If one gives you solid results, go with it. I get better results out of crossed…so I’m sticking with it.

[geek_boy_in]

good to hear the various point of view ..... from what Deathmetalconga and anp27 says it seems that it is more of a function of habit/practice then anything .......... hmmm .... actually i started practicing open handed after listening to rave reviews by couple of well known artists ........ tried to go through New Breed by Gary Chester .. but didn't make much progress .... coming from a long day of work it is not exactly a book you would want to pick up :)

I have actually already implemented DMC's idea of having a cable hihat towards the right. I practice in my apartment using a DTXpressIII... so on my left side is an acoustic Paiste hihat .. and the hihat pad i have fitted towards the right !!! ... so now i can tune that extra pedal for hihat or an extra bass drum or a cowbell etc .... cool aint' it ? though I am not even close to ride the Clave on left foot yet :(

Dave: If the side of the brain equation is true then that somehow contradicts DMC's and anp's point of more practice ...... I mean they are trying to achieve the same goal through the difficult path of practice which can be more easily reached through following the nature's decided brain. ..... which is what My question was actually ... to go with my Flow of Right Hand or to teach my weaker hand ..... oh well .......

[geek_boy_in]

btw anp27 or may I call you Adriane ....... your playing on youtube was superb.. very good feel ....I really enjoyed it ............. yes probably you are correct instead of bothering too much about how the sound is coming from which hand .......... it is more important to concentrate on translating the ideas into action ....

[anp27]

btw anp27 or may I call you Adriane ....... your playing on youtube was superb.. very good feel ....I really enjoyed it ............. yes probably you are correct instead of bothering too much about how the sound is coming from which hand .......... it is more important to concentrate on translating the ideas into action ....

Thank you..I initially started out playing by ear, when I listened to cds (or back then, 'cassettes') I could tell what was going on, and how I was supposed to execute it, and it was natural for my left hand to play to play the hihat, since the hihat IS on the left after all, right? I think Deathmetalconga has some very very good points in his post, he took the words right out of my mouth.
I really could go on and on about my approach to the drums, being open-handed and all.. the adjustments to the kit that I've had to make, how I always have to reverse the stickings in a drum book (hahaha), how I always have to figure how I'm going to play the same fill the other way around..it's really crazy if you think about it, and it's also double the work compared to you right handed durmmers. But this is the way I've always played, and I don't think I'll ever change.

[aboylikedave]

Dave: If the side of the brain equation is true then that somehow contradicts DMC's and anp's point of more practice ...... I mean they are trying to achieve the same goal through the difficult path of practice which can be more easily reached through following the nature's decided brain. ..... which is what My question was actually ... to go with my Flow of Right Hand or to teach my weaker hand ..... oh well .......

Yes, they are contradictory. I played left handed for a year, was as fast as right handed, but you know what? It never FELT as good. My advice to you is....go with the one that FEELS best, and lets you play the grooviest fills etc. Trust to the force!

[anp27]

Yes, they are contradictory. I played left handed for a year, was as fast as right handed, but you know what? It never FELT as good. My advice to you is....go with the one that FEELS best, and lets you play the grooviest fills etc. Trust to the force!

I agree.. I only play open handed 'cause thats what felt comfortable to me. It's all about FEEL..

[Wavelength]

I've never, ever seen a crossed player put their ride cymbal on the left. They like it on the right so they can play open.

Just about every jazz drummer puts a second ride on the left side of the kit.

[h3r3tic]

Just about every jazz drummer puts a second ride on the left side of the kit.

But don't forget that most jazz drummer that put anothers ride on their left side stil use their right hand...

[h3r3tic]

About the open handed playing....
I made a change from crossed to open beucase I wasn't so confortable playing crossed...
And even on some grooves I couldn't make strong accents on the snare because if I lifted my left hand a little higher (which was on the snare) it would hit the sticks, but now with open handed playing, my playing feels a lot more natural and although I had and I'm still having some work on the open handed playing, it has open a lot more possibilities for my imagination on manipulating stuff on the kit ;)

I have finally found the type of playing that I feel more confortable :)
Open handed playing rulez!

Oh! and about putting your hats next to your ride... well, I don't think it's really necessary to put your hats next to your ride because open handed doesn't consist on leading with only one part of your body but to eliminate the idea of "weak limbs".

To be able to lead with either hands is the best thing about playing open.
I for example have my hats on my left and my ride on my right and I'm not thinking of making any changes of my ride or my hats.

Keep playin' open!:D

[Wavelength]

Most jazz drummer that put another ride on their left side still use their right hand...

That was the whole point.

[d.c.drummer]

Open=handed is based more on ambidexterity. It was a good techhnique to learn because, now, you can play both ways. And if you want to play that reggea grove crossed, do it! No ones stopping you...

[jazzin']

Open handed playing rulez!






Yeah!






rulezrulez!

[Deathmetalconga]

Open=handed is based more on ambidexterity. It was a good techhnique to learn because, now, you can play both ways. And if you want to play that reggea grove crossed, do it! No ones stopping you...

Don't confuse open handed playing with ambidexterity. Ambidexterity is a separate skill in and of itself and it takes its own discipline. Open playing just means you don't cross your hands or sticks to play hats or ride - that's all. Open playing in no way means you have ambidexterity.

I have always played open handed and I am no more ambidextrous than a crossed drummer. It is very, very rare that I will play ride or hats with my right hand (unless it's two hands on the hats or ride). I'm no more ambidextrous than a crossed drummer. If you look at my set, it is not configured for ambidextrous playing, just open playing. Some sets, like aahznightsky's, are indeed ambidextrous.

My hats are on the left and my ride is one the left, very close to the hats. I see some open players put their hats on the left and ride on the right and use left hand for hats and right hand for ride. That's getting towards ambidexterity. Personally, I think that's a crazy waste of time and complicates playing, but if someone sticks with it, they will develop ambidextrous skillsand be better for it.

A lot of people confuse open playing with ambidexterity. I think it's because open playing is more natural, so it leads many to experiment with ambidexterity.

[geek_boy_in]

Ambidexterity is a separate skill in and of itself and it takes its own discipline. ......Open playing in no way means you have ambidexterity.

......That's getting towards ambidexterity. Personally, I think that's a crazy waste of time and complicates playing.............

A lot of people confuse open playing with ambidexterity. I think it's because open playing is more natural, so it leads many to experiment with ambidexterity.


You know DMC, actually the reason I started practicing open handed is because I wanted to be sort of ambidextrous too. That is why my acoustic hihat I have kept towards left while my ride is on my right...... I liked the way you have put it as "crazy waste of time and complicates playing" ...... that is what am feeling right now after one year of trying... whether the entire effort to make my left hand as equal to my right was worth it or not ........ Probably, I would have been better off practicing advanced stuff in my short practice time......

Ok here is a naive (probably stupid) question from me ...... is it really needed to become ambidextrous to become a brilliant drummer ? are all the great drummers we regularly hear ambidextrous ?? If yes then we all should strive towards that ...... if no probably we should simply stop trying to achieve the "not-needed".....

[Deathmetalconga]

You know DMC, actually the reason I started practicing open handed is because I wanted to be sort of ambidextrous too. That is why my acoustic hihat I have kept towards left while my ride is on my right...... I liked the way you have put it as "crazy waste of time and complicates playing" ...... that is what am feeling right now after one year of trying... whether the entire effort to make my left hand as equal to my right was worth it or not ........ Probably, I would have been better off practicing advanced stuff in my short practice time......

Ok here is a naive (probably stupid) question from me ...... is it really needed to become ambidextrous to become a brilliant drummer ? are all the great drummers we regularly hear ambidextrous ?? If yes then we all should strive towards that ...... if no probably we should simply stop trying to achieve the "not-needed".....

I think there are many great drummers who are ambidextrous and many who aren't. Ambidexterity is a great skill and will help your playing in many ways, but it takes time. I only have a half-hour a day to practice, if I'm lucky, so I have chosen to focus on different things. If I were a pro and could devote six to eight hours a day to practice, you bet I'd pursue ambidexterity. If you are just getting started, there are probably many other things you should be learning before something as esoteric as ambidexterity.

Back to open playing: You will likely find your left hand is ready and eager to play ride if you just give it a chance.

Try putting your ride cymbal on the left. I have mine centered on the hi-hat (see my set at http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18719 and mounting at http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23501. My first instructor had his ride to the left of the hihat and I used to have mine a little to the right of the hihat, but it should be somewhere around there.

Your left hand will now be able to move easily between the hats, snare and ride. These three items are closely related and you have now brought them very close together. Your left hand may now play hats, ride and snare - any two or all at once - while you right hand plays snare, toms and crash. Some really freaky stuff will start to emerge from this. Be patient because it is very unusual for the left hand to be doing all this stuff, but if you've been training your left hand for the past year, things should start happening very quickly.

There may be a perception that the ride cymbal is "supposed" to be on the right. Pfffft. The only reason it's on the right is because crossed players like to play open whenever they get a chance, or else the ride would be on the left by the hihat, This is a drum set and you can and should modify it however you need.

Let me know how it goes!

[Michael G]

Open handed being more natural? That can't be right, what is natural is to have your dominant hand lead over your other hand. You basically do everything with that dominant hand over your other hand.

I always have played crossed, and always will. Unless you want two snares, it is a waste of tiem to play open handed if you play traditional. That is why, I would imagine that instead of playing the hi-hat open and it was invented, everyone played it crossed.

Also, playing open handed completely changes fills. Playing crossed allows for faster moves fills, you can't argue that. There is also the texture of a fill, if you try the same fill from both styles, there is a difference.

All in all, playing open handed is fine, but really, I still back the crossed style playing as the better way to play. Which is an opinion just like how some would back the two stick grips.

[Deathmetalconga]

Open handed being more natural? That can't be right, what is natural is to have your dominant hand lead over your other hand. You basically do everything with that dominant hand over your other hand.

I always have played crossed, and always will. Unless you want two snares, it is a waste of tiem to play open handed if you play traditional. That is why, I would imagine that instead of playing the hi-hat open and it was invented, everyone played it crossed.

Also, playing open handed completely changes fills. Playing crossed allows for faster moves fills, you can't argue that. There is also the texture of a fill, if you try the same fill from both styles, there is a difference.

All in all, playing open handed is fine, but really, I still back the crossed style playing as the better way to play. Which is an opinion just like how some would back the two stick grips.

You confuse handedness with openness. You could easily put your hihat to your right with a remote foot cable and play open. Viola! Instant open playing with right hand on ride and hats. As with so many things in life, there is no "right" or "left-handed" approach to drums, just whether you cross your hands or you don't.

I play left hand on ride because the hihat and ride cymbal are to my left. Also, the snare drum is the heart of the drum set and I like having my dominant right hand playing snare. It facilitates ghost notes and a mean backbeat. I also play right (snare) hand traditional and left (ride/hats) hand matched grip.

I have never played crossed and I never will, so it would be foolish of me to say open is superior. Playing open, however, seems more natural to me because everyone does everything open handed: write, type, cook, eat, use tools, drive, play other instruments, etc. etc. Only when most people sit down to play drums do they accept crossed as the norm. To me, people who play crossed are really the ones playing left-handed.

Even you and other crossed players play open every chance you get. There's a reason why all crossed players put their ride cymbal on the right - it's so they can enjoy the benefits of open playing. Good for you! I just happen to enjoy those benefits full time.

There's also a stylistic aspect. I believe if you play like everyone else plays, you will sound like everyone else. Playing open creates subtle changes in how you approach the entire set.

[Michael G]

You confuse handedness with openness. You could easily put your hihat to your right with a remote foot cable and play open. Viola! Instant open playing with right hand on ride and hats. As with so many things in life, there is no "right" or "left-handed" approach to drums, just whether you cross your hands or you don't.

I play left hand on ride because the hihat and ride cymbal are to my left. Also, the snare drum is the heart of the drum set and I like having my dominant right hand playing snare. It facilitates ghost notes and a mean backbeat. I also play right (snare) hand traditional and left (ride/hats) hand matched grip.

I have never played crossed and I never will, so it would be foolish of me to say open is superior. Playing open, however, seems more natural to me because everyone does everything open handed: write, type, cook, eat, use tools, drive, play other instruments, etc. etc. Only when most people sit down to play drums do they accept crossed as the norm. To me, people who play crossed are really the ones playing left-handed.

Even you and other crossed players play open every chance you get. There's a reason why all crossed players put their ride cymbal on the right - it's so they can enjoy the benefits of open playing. Good for you! I just happen to enjoy those benefits full time.

There's also a stylistic aspect. I believe if you play like everyone else plays, you will sound like everyone else. Playing open creates subtle changes in how you approach the entire set.

Ahh, yes you can put the hi-hat on the right, and that's perfectly okay to most people. But the hi-hat is becoming a lost art, there are so many manipulation techniques that can only be pulled off when it is right next to your snare. So for me, it will always be there, and to play standard beats, I will always be crossed as far as the hi-hat is concerned.

And yes I think was confused, yes I play open loads of time when I playing ride in the standard swing pattern, but when I think open handed, I just kept to playing left hand hi-hat and right hand snare. While there is more to it, I will stop there.

[vernthemerciless]

Can I just throw a bit of a spanner in the works here and come from a different perspective. I am an open handed player and always have been since day 1. In fact when i first started playing i had a bit of difficulty finding a teacher (i started at 16 so i felt like i needed some help getting up to speed). I seems most of the people on ehre are right handed and playing open on a right handed kit. I am left handed (although not totally dominated as some are ie. i play racket sports right handed and use right handed scissors) and play right handed set up open sticked. so i think i'm coming from a slightly different angle here in my experience. I've always found it to be fine. I used to naturally switch to right hand lead for fills at first but keeping my timing this way got hard once i got above a very basic level so it's not how i generally play now (kind of a shame in a way). The one thing i've always found playing open is it's easier to use 2 toms rather than 3 or 4. Going round in straight singles is alwyas a touch more challenging for an open player than it is for a crossed player seeing as that's a bisic skill that's a little annoying. i'll still hit sticks if i'm going to fast even these days.

It's not a case of one system beign better nor do i think you've wasted your time practicing as you say it's stengthened you left hand. You will probably always naturally have a prefference for one side or the other and that's normal. Building up your weak side to the level of your strang side would probably take a long long time and would allow you to do some different things but don't think of it as essential. If you did get to that level that would be ambidextorous i believe.

Never forget that if you play it with your left or you right doesn't really matter as it'll still sound the same if your playing the same notes in the same way.

[Legacyrik]

Ok My left hand has become quite strong ...

for example Reggae grooves ... i find it so comfortable with my right hand leading on the hi-hat ......... ..


Hey you spent a year, got your weak hand stronger and more coordinated and it sounds like it didn't adversly affect your right hand lead..

WIN WIN