Why flip the china?

[Odranaz]

i have always wondered this...why do drummers flip the china cymbal upside down?

[thecraponline]

To change the sound, and also to save sticks from being chewed up by the sharp edge.

[Class A Drummer]

To change the sound

Dont think thats true. I had my 14 inch Wuhan china (amazing china btw) and i had it normal faced for a while to see how it was. Later on i changed it and realized there was no difference in sound.

I think the real reason is because it feels better to hit.

[Rossy_j]

For me thecraponline has it right. The flange on the china chews up sticks if its the right way round, as it points upwards. When flipped, it points downwards, saving your sticks. Hope this helps.

R

[Thrash Drummer]

From my expierence, you flip the china so it doesn't crack!

Yes, I cracked my Zildjian oriental China the second day I had it because I hit the edge of it. There were actually two cracks, each in spots where it was often hit.

Now I keep it inverted so I hit the curve instead of the edge. The cracks growth have slowed...but one is a couple inches long.

Anyone else out there with a similar experience?

[fourstringdrums]

I don't use a china now, but whenever I have, including recently when I had one, I had it with the bell facing up. I felt it gave me more tonal options and more dynamic control, and if I angled it right, I wouldn't chew my sticks that much.

[mind_drummer]

I second the idea of saving the china from edge crack but the weight can also force the bell hole to crack too (except if you use the cymbal springs). As for myself, I like the reverse playing area it gives (for riding it à la "Pretty" Purdie) and the look reversed china look on the kit.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

The guy at my local drum shop recently told me that some jazz players will keep the china facing down and play it almost like a ride and occasionally hitting the edge for accents. I forget the brand of china he used to demonstrate the sound to me, but I could certainly tell a difference.

[fooleeze]

When you flip it upside down and hit on the flange instead of the edge, most chinas will give a much mroe powerful, sharp attack. Hitting on the edge will usually result in a slightly softer, more 'washy' sound. But only slightly.

Jazz players will often use larger chinas, pangs or swishes, and mount them bell-up / flange down. They are often using the bow for riding, and the edge for crashes. They are looking for the dark trashy tone these cymbals have.

[fusssion]

Take a look here...you've probably all seen it, but it's a perfect look at the diversity of the china and the uses in jazz....this is Jeff Hamilton ...and in the video he's riding the china like a ride, ....and he's also whacking it (2x) towards the end where he hits it FROM UNDERNEATH .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdvIZTjpMJM

[bonzolead]

Because it save the sticks.I don't. use a china anymore I discovered "the crash of doom" I'll never go back.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

[fooleeze]

Thanks, Fusssion, that's a great video. what a fantastic drummer.

I'm willing to bet that's an older swish, actually. Pangs have a 'flat' flange, Swish's are turned up slightly.

When I was in HS, we had a jazz drummer come play with us as a guest artist, and he had a 20 or 22" pang with rivets. . . that thing was amazing. I hunted down and bought my own 20" pang because of it. I love the sound of that cymbal!

I believe he's hitting it from underneath for two reasons:

1: It'll give a stronger crash sound on the bottom of the flange.
2: It's easier on the sticks, and it's easier on the cymbal (to hit the flange instead of the edge on harder hits).

[Skitch]

Here are the advantages of the China positioning:


Right side up - easier to ride as a second ride and the position for drummers who predominantly play jazz as it places the cymbal in a better position for ride work. However due to the upturned edge, as noted here, it becomes more difficult to crash. Also, as the mounting hole area rests against the felt (you did remember to use these, didn't you!) on top of the cymbal in the upside down position, the felt can mute the cymbal and not allow the full flavor of the cymbal to be expressed!


Upside down - First used by Billy Cobham, I believe, and is used by Fusion and Rock drummers for an easier area to crash as the upturned edge now is a down turned edge like all other crash cymbals.


And you are right, fooleeze, the Pang cymbal is an amazing cymbal! They sound extremely smooth when stacked up against a china or a swish!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[ECVail]

Because it save the sticks.I don't. use a china anymore I discovered "the crash of doom" I'll never go back.


OK - so I'm curious. What exactly is "the crash of doom?" (sounds like something I may have to have!)

[Bernhard]

Take a look here...you've probably all seen it, but it's a perfect look at the diversity of the china and the uses in jazz....this is Jeff Hamilton ...and in the video he's riding the china like a ride, ....and he's also whacking it (2x) towards the end where he hits it FROM UNDERNEATH .....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdvIZTjpMJM

Fussion - I hate it, when you here at Drummerworld Forum always point to the crappy youtube video - and the original is here at Drummerworld:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffhamilton.html

Bernhard

[fusssion]

ECVail....
http://www.zildjian.com/en-US/products/productDetail.ad2?productID=1264

Fussion - I hate it, when you here at Drummerworld Forum always point to the crappy youtube video - and the original is here at Drummerworld:

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jeffhamilton.html

Bernhard

Bernhard, it's only because I can't see drummerworld videos, we've discussed this, ...I've asked you to have drummerworld videos have secondary "viewing" capability, but it doesn't sound like that is going to happen,...understandably so...... My computer at home is terrible and my work computer won't let me download any "new software" for security purposes.

I copied and pasted that because I wanted to watch it to confirm that that was the video I should reference to the forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

[bonzolead]

OK - so I'm curious. What exactly is "the crash of doom?" (sounds like something I may have to have!)
For me it's. a very unique cymbal first it's. bent all over using Zildjian computerize hammers(so it looks all beat up) the cymbal has a trashy sound like a china but can be used as a crash and since it's 20" dia. it can also be used as a light unique sounding ride.I use a (4) piece set-up and the only cymbals I use is 14' hi-hats,17" crash,10"splash,21" ride and 20" crash of doom that cymbal takes place of 2 and sometimes 3 different cymbals.since I gig out a lot It saves my back from lugging 2 other cymbal stands and that gives me more room on stage.I totally recommend this cymbal.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

[Jeremy]

Aside from all the reasons above for flipping a china is that you add a harmonic to crash when you hit it on the edge (bell up) instead of the flange (bell down). Take a stick and hold it vertically, then move it and hit the side of a crash or ride so that they make a right angle. You'll hear a harmonic of the cymbal. you add that to the crash sound when hitting the edge, so it does change the sound.

[tooldrums1000]

I think i looks way cooler when you flip the china. My wuhan is right side up becuase when i hit it when its reverse its so solid.

[Drum-Head]

The guy at my local drum shop recently told me that some jazz players will keep the china facing down and play it almost like a ride and occasionally hitting the edge for accents. I forget the brand of china he used to demonstrate the sound to me, but I could certainly tell a difference.

If I got it right from Steve Smith's Deuveudeu (any specialists correct me if I'm making a bummer here!) back in the days there was no ride cymbal to ride on, so jazz drummers used to ride on upright chinas.