Ellington Era Sizzle

[Maytridy]

My high school jazz band qualified for the Essentially Ellington competition at Lincoln Center, NYC. I need to pick up a nice sizzle cymbal because the chains draping over my ride aren't satisfying me.

I'm looking for a zildjian with rivets that would blend well with Duke Ellington's early 20th century style. Does anyone have specific suggestions for a cymbal? Or any tips about what makes a sizzle cymbal better than another? (I really don't know much about sizzles).

[jazzgregg]

My high school jazz band qualified for the Essentially Ellington competition at Lincoln Center, NYC. I need to pick up a nice sizzle cymbal because the chains draping over my ride aren't satisfying me.

I'm looking for a zildjian with rivets that would blend well with Duke Ellington's early 20th century style. Does anyone have specific suggestions or tips about what makes a sizzle cymbal better than another? (I really don't know much about sizzles).

Nothing Z makes today will sound anything like it, not really. Ellington of course had many drummers and each one had different gear, so aside from saying 'which period Ellington' or 'which drummer', you are basically looking for a sound like an old A or K type of cymbal with rivets. The thing about cymbals back then was that they were much thinner than most today (one of the many reasons you won't find a modern Z to get that sound). I know one of my favourites is Woodyard's on 'Such Sweet Thunder'.

As far as what makes a sizzle cymbal better than another, thin-ness, type of rivets and how many rivets there are (to a certain extent, where they are too).

Thinner cymbals have more edge wobble and will therefore make the rivets move more and faster, getting a smother sound. Keep in mind too, that back then, I don't think they had cymbals much bigger that 20", most were smaller than that even, especially in the early part of the century.

Obviously the more rivets you have, the more sizzly it will be, but really, any more than 6 around the whole cymbal will probably make it wash out too much. A cluster of three is common too. If you get lucky, you MIGHT be able to find a rivets cymbal (check some Bosphorus Hammer Series, thin as hell and come with rivets in them, or some Istanbul Mel Lewis cymbals- also with rivets already), if not, you will need to do it yourself.

The kind of rivets- Rivets from the 50's and before usually had bigger, mushroom type heads than ones today, you can see this on some of Dave Tough's cymbals. The 2 basic kinds are split rivets and solid rivets. Split's react sooner and at lower volumes, solid ones are fuller sounding but need a suitable whack to move them. There are all kinds of metals too, nickel (common), brass (common), and others. I think for an older sound, solid brass rivets would work. Alternatively, if you can get your hands on an already drilled cymbal, just experiment with some Ellington records handy- that's my suggestion.

Hope that helps,
G

[Fur drummer]

A cool ride cymbal is the 19in Armand with 3 rivets. That is a very cool sounding cymbal

[jazzdrummer0829]

My (future) high school has an 18 inch crash/ride with a 6 rivet spread that sounds great.

[arsenal1189]

Hmm...I am not sure this is what you are looking for but a 20" Bosphorus Hammer with around 2-3 rivets would sound awesome....

Damn what I would do for one of those

[arsenal1189]

BTW Congrats on the Essentially Ellington competition...I would love to hear some recordings...What songs are you playing?

I have the essentailly ellington CD because we were planning to take part in it until we lost both our 'bones and our tuba...

We still did play Second Line (Joe Avery Blues)

Be sure to tell us how it goes!

[somedrummer]

Check out www.cymbalcellar.com (http://www.cymbalcellar.com) There's quite a few cymbals there that might very well work for what you're looking for.

[arsenal1189]

http://www.rarevintagecymbals.com/index.htm

Here are some more...specifically look at the Istanbul section

[Cymbalrider]

Bosphorus Hammer 22" w/ rivets
Istanbul Mel Lewis 21" w/ rivets

best you can get...

[Maytridy]

Thanks for all the tips!

For the audition, we played Second Line, Jumpin' Punkins, and Boy Meets Horn.

Second Line was apparently not supposed to be eligible for the competition, so we're learning Old Man Blues for the competition.

I don't have our audition CD at home, but I'll grab a copy from school on Monday and post some songs up.

Is it possible/recommended to buy a nice thin cymbal, then drill rivet holes yourself? Is this dangerous?

[hauk]

it is indeed possible, i've seen tutorials. do a bit of searching on the web, maybe you can find one. shouldnt be dangerous if you do it right

[Maytridy]

We have one song online, titled Boy Meets Horn. This song doesn't really feature the drums at all, but soon I'll post our other song Jumpin Punkins which has a nice drum break.

Click here (http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007703200321), then click the 'Related Files' link along the right side.

[KCMcC]

Is it possible/recommended to buy a nice thin cymbal, then drill rivet holes yourself? Is this dangerous?

The cymbal I talk about in this thread http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25584
was drilled right before my eyes on Wednesday, he just grabbed the drill stuck it in the cymbal and went!

I think he's probably been doing it for years though.

[Maytridy]

I think I'm gonna try that. How far from the edge did he drill the holes?

[KCMcC]

It's at my guitar players house right now, but I'd say an inch or so?

do a search, I'm sure this forum has had discussions on the issue before, and I'm sure google will turn up a ton on the web as well, about how to go about doing it, what bit to use, angle etc.

I'd go to a used store and buy the cheapest thing you can find and drill it up like a swish with like a hole every inch for practice.