Tom on kick sounding dead.

[Drum-Head]

Greetings!


I believe there was already a thread about this matter, but I just spent a few hours searching (with the search feature that most of the time gave no results and "manually" going through the threads) without much success. I have also spend a few hours fiddling with the drums but not much success there either - it's not my day lol!

Considering so, could someone please help me by either directing me to the concerned thread (if you know where it is) or by sharing tips on how to avoid a dead sound when a tom is mounted on the kick drum.

My apologies to the moderators and thanks for any help that may come along.


Regards,
Christopher.

[hungrypo]

the tom, when mounted on your kick drum, sounds dead?
do you have a isolation/suspension system (RIMS mounts or otherwise) or is there a hole drilled into your tom?
does your tom sound more, um, "alive", when it is off the kick drum? do you have another way to mount it, say off a cymbal stand?
an answer to the above questions will bring me closer to finding an answer to your question.
cheers.

[texdrumr]

I think I know what you're getting at... a dead bass drum sound when you have mounted tom on the drum. I have the same deal.

The only way to fix this problem is to not have that kind of set up. If that means mounting your tom from a tom or cymbal stand, then that's what you have to do. When using my 4 piece set up, I mount my rack tom on a stand. when using a 5 piece, I mount my 10" tom on a stand and my 12" from the bass drum mount. While this deadens the sound, I've found that it is much better than if I had both toms mounted on the kick.

Ostensibly the reason for this is the reduced shell resonance with the weight of the toms on the shell. The torqued force of a tom mounted off-center from the mount presses against the bass drum shell and essentially muffles the resonance. Not a whole lot that I know of to be done about this. Best of luck

[Ozzy Biz]

I've heard cases of both or either of the kick and toms seeming dead and muffled when mounted on the kick. I can't think of one situation where it wasn't solved by flying the toms off stands. As a bonus, your tom positioning often becomes more comfortable too.

[Raymond Bloom]

Once a drum is mounted on a stand or a bass drum the sound will get a bit deader, the same about flor toms, the legs deaden the sound, you can't 100% avoid that but there are things you can do to minimize it.

try using thinner heads and tune your toms to get maximum sustain and resonanse

[harryconway]

A little info. What kind of rack tom?. Make, model and size. And what type heads are on the drum now? Is the rack tom sound dead, or the kick?

[Drum-Head]

Thanks for answering! Here goes for the information:

My kit is a Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau and therefore has Y.E.S.S. attachments. It is the 10" x 8" tom-tom equipped with a G2 batter and G1 resonant which is sounding dead when it is mounted on the kick.

The tom did sound more alive when mounted on a cymbal stand but it also sounded alive when I fist mounted it on the kick. I fiddled about with the tom stand and boom arm that is also on the kick and when I went back to hit the tom it sounded dead... But then it comes to mind that I have already experienced dead sounding toms on cymbal stands also.

I am actually experimenting with my kit and in order to set up my 8"x7"/10"x8"/14"x12" toms the way I want to - which will be easier on my back and more comfortable to play - have to put the 8" on a cymbal stand, the 10" on the kick and finally the 14" on a low tom stand.

I know this is not a fatality since many drummers set up their kit as so without having their toms going "Dong!" :)


Regards,
Christopher.

EDIT: I have done a diagram with Kitbuilder so you get the idea.

[harryconway]

Very puzzling to me, having had a set of Recording Customs with the same Y.E.S.S. system on a 13x9 rack. Should make no difference whether the drum hangs off the factory tom holder, a drum rack, or a cymbal stand. How old are the heads? If you play every day and use your toms a lot, the heads may just be done. 6 months? I'm a Remo guy, and the G2 is similar to the Emperor (2 ply head), and for me, it would not be the head of choice for your kit. Perhaps your ears themselves have matured, and you want more resonance out of your tom now. Yamaha SC's are begging for single ply heads, in my opinion. If the heads you have are new, could be a defective head.

[Drum-Head]

Hi Harry,


The heads are starting to get old - 4 months being played every day - so I will soon change them. I was thinking about trying out those Evans EC1s... Classic single ply heads lack punch in my opinion, at least, that is what I thought with Aquarian Classic Clears or Remo Ambassadors. I also felt that because of the resonance, you get less uhm... could we say definition? Out of the strokes.

Concerning my dead tone problem, I tried re-tuning the tom and things got a bit better when I tightened the batter head some more and tuned it back in with itself. I'm not satisfied yet but I thing I've got something. On the other hand now it's my kick which is sounding dead. Argh! Sometimes drums are such a pain in the backside...


Christopher.

[harryconway]

Sounds like it's worn out heads. Remember that they don't last forever. Usually, kick and snare need to be replaced more often than tom heads, but mileage varies with individual style. If G2's work for you, cool. I like to have a variety of different heads in my studio space. Takes the hmmm factor out of situations like yours real fast. Re-head a drum, sounds good, mystery solved.

[hungrypo]

Hi Harry,


The heads are starting to get old - 4 months being played every day - so I will soon change them. I was thinking about trying out those Evans EC1s... Classic single ply heads lack punch in my opinion, at least, that is what I thought with Aquarian Classic Clears or Remo Ambassadors. I also felt that because of the resonance, you get less uhm... could we say definition? Out of the strokes.

Concerning my dead tone problem, I tried re-tuning the tom and things got a bit better when I tightened the batter head some more and tuned it back in with itself. I'm not satisfied yet but I thing I've got something. On the other hand now it's my kick which is sounding dead. Argh! Sometimes drums are such a pain in the backside...


Christopher.
it totally sounds like a head problem. i also have a yamaha stage custom kit (advantge, not nouveau). my experience with evans heads have been less than impressive. i put the ambassador combo on all the toms (coated batters, clear reso's) and the drums sing real nice.

[Drum-Head]

Hungrypo,


Not to start another debate about the companies, but I've had nothing but bad experiences with Remo and I will never buy their heads again. To make a long story short, I find Remo's heads to really lack in the fabrication quality department. I'd rather stay with Evans which have been the most satisfying drum heads for me. Understand that this is purely my opinion and I have absolutely nothing against other people using Remo.

Back to the subject though. The point of this thread is also being that I'd like to have a better understanding of all this. So Harry, why would you say it is a head problem? This considering that with toms hanging of cymbal stands the drums sound fine.

I'd like to know all this so next time I set-up, I won't have to spend hours fiddling about to find out what needs to be adjusted, tuned, set up otherwise etc.


Rhythmically yours,
Christopher.

[harryconway]

The tom did sound more alive when mounted on a cymbal stand but it also sounded alive when I fist mounted it on the kick. I fiddled about with the tom stand and boom arm that is also on the kick and when I went back to hit the tom it sounded dead... But then it comes to mind that I have already experienced dead sounding toms on cymbal stands also. I know this is not a fatality since many drummers set up their kit as so without having their toms going "Dong!" :)

I'm basically saying it's a head problem because I'm not in your studio to see what's going on myself. And I don't know how much time has transpired during the movement of the tom. The heads are starting to get old - 4 months being played every day - so I will soon change them. Smoking gun. Also, I don't know what kind of studio you have. Your drums may actually sound better than you think, out front. I always get one of my drummer buds to play my kit after a major re-head and tune because my concern is what they sound like to the audience and my fellow musicians, not what I hear in the drivers seat.