The Swivel Technique

[Tim Waterson]

Hey everyone
here is a teaser of one of the techniques covered in my bassdrumtechniques dvd.
The swivel technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92qdU4jspao
The dvd will be clearer and better sound this is just to let you know one of the topics to be covered.
Hope this helps and God Bless
Tim

[Kenneth Nishimoto]

Wow, that's actually pretty awesome~! Very nice video

[Class A Drummer]

pretty cool, but wudnt it b better just to go straight down?

[Tim Waterson]

pretty cool, but wudnt it b better just to go straight down?
I do that too
This is just another technique for drummers to apply to their bag of goodies..
Tim

[jarrod]

Yeah just how fast is george, cus i have herd so many diffrent speeds some seem very far out there and some seem more like it.

[Muckster]

For those of you who can find a copy of Jeff Pocaro's video by Hot Licks, he goes into some detail on this technique as well.

[Tim Waterson]

Yeah just how fast is george, cus i have herd so many diffrent speeds some seem very far out there and some seem more like it.

George is VERY fast but he can't lock in 280 and neither can I.
LOL
Tim

[Stu_Strib]

For some reason my feet have never done the whole "heel and toe" thing, so I've always kind of reverted to this. My left foot is much more accomplished at it, though, with keeping the two and four this way (or 8th notes, or quarters) ala Steve Smith.

Stu

[NUTHA JASON]

i don't know. it just seems like an extra nmovement that has little to do with the striking action. heel toe i can dig because it makes two strokes for the price of one and spreads the load between two muscle groups but this swivel technique, asides from the fact that the two different positions might mean engaging slightly different muscle groups (load sharing), seems to be a useless expenditure of energy. not to knock you tim. but is it possible that a lot of the fast guys (yourself included) have learned this alternative after they were already murderously quick using techniques involving straight up and down type motions? would you recommend this technique to a beginner double bass player? do you know anyone who has always used this method exclusively?
i mean it is impressive but i have serious doubts.

j

[Tim Waterson]

i don't know. it just seems like an extra nmovement that has little to do with the striking action. heel toe i can dig because it makes two strokes for the price of one and spreads the load between two muscle groups but this swivel technique, asides from the fact that the two different positions might mean engaging slightly different muscle groups (load sharing), seems to be a useless expenditure of energy. not to knock you tim. but is it possible that a lot of the fast guys (yourself included) have learned this alternative after they were already murderously quick using techniques involving straight up and down type motions? would you recommend this technique to a beginner double bass player? do you know anyone who has always used this method exclusively?
i mean it is impressive but i have serious doubts.

j
NJ
This is just a Basic explanation
Yes you can do 2,3 or 4 notes per ankle movement which takes practice but I am showing from the ground up basic movement..
Anything past 260 I use 2 hits per side
We must walk before we run...
This just one of the techniques I talk about IN FULL on my dvd LOL
I also use heel down, heel up,. swivel. moeller. and up and down more of a gladdstone and combinations of all of the above..LOL
Yes I teach this to my students as an option..
I would like to give drummers the ability to apply any technique to their playing.
Tim

[DrumProgressive]

I didnt know that even was a technique up till now. And even better is that i can allready do it with my left foot (in my case my better foot). It just started to come naturally in my striking motion as i sped up using one foot. I use this alot when i want to get more comfortable in a groove context by using 1 foot instead of 2.

So if i train my right foot aswell in it, regular double bass will become more powerfull ?

[jarrod]

George is VERY fast but he can't lock in 280 and neither can I.
LOL
Tim


What do u mean lock cant stay at that speed for long or fant quite reach it cus 250+ it nuts to me but 270+ is just freaky...

[Chip]

I seem to remember seeing a video of 16ths at 274 bpm or something. Ah well, who cares.

Did anybody else read that idiots comment on Youtube? Something about blastbeats? What an idiot. I hope that was a joke, even then it was a crap joke.

[Tim Waterson]

What do u mean lock cant stay at that speed for long or fant quite reach it cus 250+ it nuts to me but 270+ is just freaky...

it means I CAN'T LOCK in at 270 for very long it gets sloppy so I did not post it.

The Youtube comments yes some guys think if I dont play a blast beat I suck..
Oh well....I dont play Death Metal so does that mean I am not allowed to play fast???LOL
Tim

[dawg]

hey,thanks tim. i''m going to try this (real slow) today.just started trying to play a double pedal. hopefully this will help with control.my speed is coming along but it's a little sloppy.

[Drummerboy3940]

Wow you have an awesome throne. Looks very comfy. Thanks for explaining this I need to work on it.

[Tim Waterson]

Wow you have an awesome throne. Looks very comfy. Thanks for explaining this I need to work on it.
I use the Drumframe I am still recovereing from a car accident and this allows me to
be in comfort while performing.
All I need is popcorn, a TV and I'm set.
Tim

[jarrod]

it means I CAN'T LOCK in at 270 for very long it gets sloppy so I did not post it.

The Youtube comments yes some guys think if I dont play a blast beat I suck..
Oh well....I dont play Death Metal so does that mean I am not allowed to play fast???LOL
Tim

Nar you can play as fast as you want the guy on YouTube is a no it all wanker, plus he dosnt now anything about you so who cares and blast beats arnt everything.

[T-1000]

Dudes, I think, though you are only getting 1 hit per action, as it were, the effect of swinging the ankle gives it a bit more of a continuous feel, like a pendulum rather than a constant stabbing using heel up (or down). This might enable you to get more speed and probably more power. The whole 'pendulum' thing can be used as a timing device and would help with accuracy and the like

[Chip]

I dont play Death Metal so does that mean I am not allowed to play fast???
Yes. Buddy Rich actually hated Jazz, he secretly played death metal. Hehehe.

[BarryBuchanan]

thts pretty cool man..george must of practiced this for years to get it tht fast!! i noticed on a video of him on you tube he only does it with his left foot, his right is doing and updwn motion wid the heal

[Stu_Strib]

i don't know. it just seems like an extra nmovement that has little to do with the striking action.

j

Well it is a more natural movement for the legs...your knees have built in side to side motion, but for the life of me, I am not flexible enough in my ankles to heel toe very well. Going left right with the ball of the foot firmly planted on the board is actually pretty easy.

I laughed one of the heel toe video where the guy says heel toe is actually really easy..just heel then a toe...I guess it is easy if your foot moves like that, because mine doesn't do that so well.

Nutha, maybe your pedal tension isn't condusive to side to side playing, or maybe my pedal tension is condusive to heel-toe? Whatever... I like the fact there are alternatives, because I've been banging my head against a brick wall trying to play heel toe.

[FloEy]

AHAH Tim ur da best!! whens that dvd coming out!!? Thats the technique virgil uses!! It even looks like Weckle uses this one as well. I saw it on some video!! Tim is the man!!!

[Tim Waterson]

Dudes, I think, though you are only getting 1 hit per action, as it were, the effect of swinging the ankle gives it a bit more of a continuous feel, like a pendulum rather than a constant stabbing using heel up (or down). This might enable you to get more speed and probably more power. The whole 'pendulum' thing can be used as a timing device and would help with accuracy and the like

GREAT qUOTE.....
Instantly more power... aNd SPEED COMES with practice

[rkettner]

Hmm... looks like this *exact* post (with the same capital mistakes) was copy pasted into several forums by Tim. A bit of a shameless plug/spam IMO - all linking to the video and tim's website...

http://www.virgildonati.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=4873
http://www.drums.com/drumtalk/showthread.php?t=12727
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=141189

Have I found them all? Tim seems to be talking about his DVD more and more, with lots of outgoing links to his site.

I don't mind it... though I have been knocked for posting a free vid of my own in this forum before (because it had a link).

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Maybe Rick. Then again... Johnny Rabb vs. Jared Falk. Remember that little mistake?

You're a fine one to talk about spamming forums with videos. Tim's actually has some real value and is original material. I found it rather interesting. Tim speaks eloquently and clearly and demonstrates his techniques well.

[rkettner]

Maybe Rick. Then again... Johnny Rabb vs. Jared Falk. Remember that little mistake?

I don't see how that relates to this post at all. More importantly... the bulk of that discussion was from drummers that had never seen either video (and were passively participating). I'm only pointing out that Tim is doing the same thing others have been bashed for here (and on a grander scale on other forums). Make up your own mind on this.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I find it highly ironic that people putting samples of videos up on this forum are getting told off for it. Considering that all the clips on Drummerworld are in the same mould. I just don't think you really have a leg to stand on Rick, that's all.

[Tim Waterson]

Hmm... looks like this *exact* post (with the same capital mistakes) was copy pasted into several forums by Tim. A bit of a shameless plug/spam IMO - all linking to the video and tim's website...

http://www.virgildonati.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=4873
http://www.drums.com/drumtalk/showthread.php?t=12727
http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?t=141189

Have I found them all? Tim seems to be talking about his DVD more and more, with lots of outgoing links to his site.

I don't mind it... though I have been knocked for posting a free vid of my own in this forum before (because it had a link).
Hey Rick
whats up?you fellow Canuck...

Yes I did post this on other forums..shame on me for sharing tips with other drummers....
Yes I do post about my dvd as drummers have been waiting for a LONg time..
Rick you and Jared have been knocked for posting videos of videos that had already been marketed and .Dont forget you were asking ME for ideas on what to put in your NEW video.
I would love to see you 2 collaberate and come up with something NEW and remember there are NO secrets........
God Bless
Tim

[rkettner]

Dont forget you were asking ME for ideas on what to put in your NEW video.

We literally asked over 20,000 drummers for input on the Bass Drum Secrets video (and received hundreds of responses). We do this to be sure the videos cover all of the major topics people are interested in learning. The feedback we received was superb, and we are incredibly thankful for it. However, we did not hear anything back from you, so that comment is misleading (as you did not give input).

[rkettner]

I find it highly ironic that people putting samples of videos up on this forum are getting told off for it. Considering that all the clips on Drummerworld are in the same mould. I just don't think you really have a leg to stand on Rick, that's all.

It's not the video samples that is a problem. Not at all. I'm just pointing out that I've done the same, and been scolded for it. An example would be the free full Moeller Method band track excerpt (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8843463340889987851).

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

See, that's just giving us the link to a commercial site. With intention to market it.

No more of these 'secrets' please Rick. It's really getting pretty tiresome.

[Tim Waterson]

We literally asked over 20,000 drummers for input on the Bass Drum Secrets video (and received hundreds of responses). We do this to be sure the videos cover all of the major topics people are interested in learning. The feedback we received was superb, and we are incredibly thankful for it. However, we did not hear anything back from you, so that comment is misleading (as you did not give input).

Rick glad you have support on the videos although .....I told you My dvd has been on the shelf for a couple of years just trying to get the ideas accosss the right way...
and NO I am not going to tell you what I am putting on the video so you guys can try and copy it....LOL
My dvd has no secrets...I teach people what they have been asking for...
When I do post a trailer I will talk to the moderators from the forums....
There is room for everyones videos and dvds
just PLEASE stop saying secrets as there are none....
A friend of your says you are a TRUe Christian and would never decieve drummers so PLEASE stop saying secrets as there are none
God Bless
Tim

[rkettner]

PLEASE stop saying secrets as there are none

Tim, you know as well as I do that most drummers (probably 95% if not more) have never heard of half the techniques we cover in these advanced videos. Why do you think my original Heel-toe Technique video in 2001 had literally thousands of downloads, and you and Derek Pope have acheived even better results more recently?

The truth of the matter is... much of these techniques are "a method or formula on which success is based", or "something that remains beyond understanding or explanation" for those that have not yet discovered them (two literal definitions of "secret").

Besides that... and more to the point... it's a marketing thing. Many people that may not get the videos without the intriguing marketing - get them as a result, and are VERY satisfied after they do. I really don't understand why some people are hard on the phrase "secrets".

It's just a fun marketing bit, and when you actually think about it - many of the techniques are "secrets" to the bulk of drummers that either haven't heard of them, or have... but don't know what they are, or don't know how to learn them.

I guess we could replace "secret techniques" with "advanced techniques", or another term... but I really don't understand what the big deal is. Nobody is being deceived as you state... and the techniques and methods do exactly what we promote them to do (as outlined on our detailed and specific websites). BTW, unlike some others in the industry (like ballistic, etc) - our prices are very reasonable AND there is a 100% money back guarentee. We are not scamming, or doing anything to rip people off. Joe sells products of upwards of $1000 (literally, aha) and clearly states "NO money back". I can understand why some might view harshly on that kind of business - and I feel very hurt by some of the things I have seen you and other drummers post (without seeing the whole picture, or really researching the products). I believe Jared has offered you a complimentary copy of the Bass Drum Secrets training pack in the past. Have you seen the video?

Anyway, to each his own I guess... perhaps we just won't agree. I would just prefer that our names are not smeared here. Remember, I was once in your shoes. My original Heel-Toe Video was 100% free, and it was actually several forum members on the PDF forum that talked me into making a paid version with added content (much like you are now releasing a DVD). I really don't feel we are that different, but alas...

[Tim Waterson]

Tim, you know as well as I do that most drummers (probably 95% if not more) have never heard of half the techniques we cover in these advanced videos. Why do you think my original Heel-toe Technique video in 2001 had literally thousands of downloads, and you and Derek Pope have acheived even better results more recently?

.........Rick....There is nothing Original about heel and toe and it is not an advanced technique...There have been so many videos on heel toe.and my clips have been on the web for FREE for about 4 or 5 years.
Peole were buying the WFD video to see records being set and see how I did it...
Freehand techniques.com is a direct copy of Johnny rabb and No offence to Jared but as I stated a long time ago if you cant push the envelope then why bother putting out a copycat video and making false claims...JR already has the videos and has inspired a lot of drummers including you guys...You guys can talk to his lawyers....
It great that we as drummers can inspire others top do videos to help others..

The truth of the matter is... much of these techniques are "a method or formula on which success is based", or "something that remains beyond understanding or explanation" for those that have not yet discovered them (two literal definitions of "secret").

Besides that... and more to the point... it's a marketing thing. Many people that may not get the videos without the intriguing marketing - get them as a result, and are VERY satisfied after they do. I really don't understand why some people are hard on the phrase "secrets".
.............RICK....marketing is GREAT and you guys do that very well!

It's just a fun marketing bit, and when you actually think about it - many of the techniques are "secrets" to the bulk of drummers that either haven't heard of them, or have... but don't know what they are, or don't know how to learn them.

I guess we could replace "secret techniques" with "advanced techniques", or another term... but I really don't understand what the big deal is. Nobody is being deceived as you state... and the techniques and methods do exactly what we promote them to do (as outlined on our detailed and specific websites). BTW, unlike some others in the industry (like ballistic, etc) - our prices are very reasonable AND there is a 100% money back guarentee. We are not scamming, or doing anything to rip people off. Joe sells products of upwards of $1000 (literally, aha) and clearly states "NO money back".

RICK.....JOE has been offering a money back gurantee since day one the reason is anyone can learn heel and toe virtually overnight.....

I can understand why some might view harshly on that kind of business - and I feel very hurt by some of the things I have seen you and other drummers post (without seeing the whole picture, or really researching the products). I believe Jared has offered you a complimentary copy of the Bass Drum Secrets training pack in the past. Have you seen the video?
RICK......I saw the video that was posted on the web. No Jared did not offer me a video

Anyway, to each his own I guess... perhaps we just won't agree. I would just prefer that our names are not smeared here. Remember, I was once in your shoes. My original Heel-Toe Video was 100% free, and it was actually several forum members on the PDF forum that talked me into making a paid version with added content (much like you are now releasing a DVD). I really don't feel we are that different, but alas...

RICK.....what doyou mean you were once in my shoes......Im confused???
You did a WFD bassdrum techniques dvd and had someone use those techniques to market another video?LOL You even had quotes on the site techniques used by the World record holder..I wonder who that is? LOL
I have not meant to say hurtfull things only to suggest to try and come up with your own version of techniques that had already been shown.
NO I did not invent heel and toe but my video was the first to demonstrate how to get your feet over 1000 bpm.The video clearly shows the transition from heel and toe into my controlled doubles which are Heel strokes.
This is old news now kids all over are doing heel and toe and also my controlled heel strokes yippeeee!!!!
so now onto to something different and that is why I delayed my dvd.....
I asked the experts if they did the swivel like me and they said No so that is only one new thing that I show..
I show what i do but I also explain WHY I do it........
we are different as I am going to show drummers how Easy it is to achieve with practice....

[QUOTE=rkettner]Tim, you know as well as I do that most drummers (probably 95% if not more) have never heard of half the techniques we cover in these advanced videos.

RICK......f you feel these are advanced techniques (heel and toe, freehnad and others )are beyond the understanding and capability of 95% of drummers.You are putting thes techniques on a pretty high pedestal.....
Sure market them as advanced techniques videos ansd see what happens..
Good Luck and
God Bless
Tim

[rhythmicpunisher]

stop fighting this is lame...destory your ego so you can rise from the ashes to become a better player.

[Tim Waterson]

stop fighting this is lame...destory your ego so you can rise from the ashes to become a better player.
Glad someone interrupted.
I am trying make jokes at what has happened..
see me ? LOL
God Bless
Tim

[Chip]

Tim, you know as well as I do that most drummers (probably 95% if not more)
That doesn't mean they are secret if not many people know of it.
Rick, do me a favour and have a look at the post count of Tim's, and then yours.
I think it is fair to say he seems to want to give advice and help more than you, with your low post count meaning to me that you seem to only want to market your videos.
Tim doesn't have any links to his DVD either (that stuck out like a sore thumb)

This is also an explanation of a commonly questioned technique, puts the information out there free of charge, not making any blatant attempts to sell, escpecially by saying it is secret, like the drummers that know about it live in a special underground world and have record contracts and session deals left and right, and the people that don't are well, suckers that will never get anywhere.

[drummergirl_Nina]

Rick,

disagree with your comment that 95% of the supposed "advanced techniques we share on our DVDs" aren't well known. plain and simply Rick, they ARE well known!!,,,

what do you offer on your SECRET and FOR A LIMITED TIME BONUS packages that you cant get for free on this site? look at all your and Jareds products - finger control, one handed roll, the new moeller thing, heel toe (i wont mention the mindnumbingly basic Rock and Fill video series) - all of the things i just listed, that you try and package as secrets, can be found FOR FREE ON THIS VERY FORUM. Not to mention there are countless other sites out there offering similar stuff for free. Where do you get off trying to sell this info that is run of the mill?,,,

And now Jared has gone and destroyed both your reputations by COMPLETELY and LITERALLY ripping off Jonny Rabb (which is a disgraceful act of greed). Also you say that ppl were just joining in on bashing you guys on the Jared Falk thread, you mis read it - ppl in there had actually bought your material and weren't impressed.

if I were you, id steer clear of Jared Falk, whether you no it or not, your reputation is sufferin because of him,,,

Nina

[rkettner]

And now Jared has gone and destroyed both your reputations by COMPLETELY and LITERALLY ripping off Jonny Rabb (which is a disgraceful act of greed). Also you say that ppl were just joining in on bashing you guys on the Jared Falk thread, you mis read it - ppl in there had actually bought your material and weren't impressed.

I'm sorry, that just plain is NOT the truth on that one. I half wrote the script for that video (with Jared), and it's a plain fact that neither I nor Jared has EVER seen JRs DVD. In fact, even to this day if you go searching for the publication that we LATER found out was published around 1999, it is virtually impossible to find. After literally an hour of googling around, we found one site that has it listed once. With my recent research, it would appear the DVD is out of print.

FACT: If JR would return any of our calls, we would be more than happy to distribute his product as a replacement of ours on our one handed roll websites. That was one of our first products, and thus there is a lot of room for improvement. We would be happy to replace it with one by JR himself if there is one in print, or that is coming soon.

[rkettner]

That doesn't mean they are secret if not many people know of it.

Secret: "A method or formula on which success is based"

- http://www.answers.com/secret

That is why our videos have step-by-step systems for first learning and then applying each technique. It's a complete formula for success.

drummergirl nina also pointed out that a lot of this stuff is available here. Well, to a certain degree. We cover advanced applications and creative ideas based on the techniques that are not taught here. We also have slow-motion video and added tips and tricks for drummers that aren't able to learn the method from the basic videos online.

Also, a huge portion of drummers don't even visit online forums. Why do you think there are dozens of rock-drumming books at local music shops? You can learn all that stuff for free online at drummeressentials.com (my free 45+ page eBook). Fact is... most musicians never go online...

[KLittle123]

Although I did enjoy that drummeressential book somewhat, (it opened latin up for me like a lil bit.) Your debating with a drummer whose been in WFD and has had the fastest feet. I think I'd rather buy Tim Waterson's DVD instead of Jared Falk. I watched Jared's video about the one handed roll and he somewhat stretched that video out into like what? 45 MInutes, when you could learn it in like 5 minutes. I don't want to be mean, but yeah. You have a video for every little drumming thing. Somewhat irritating sometimes.

OH yes, and I do love that chair in that video, that is friggin sweet.

[rkettner]

Although I did enjoy that drummeressential book somewhat, (it opened latin up for me like a lil bit.) Your debating with a drummer whose been in WFD and has had the fastest feet. I think I'd rather buy Tim Waterson's DVD instead of Jared Falk. I watched Jared's video about the one handed roll and he somewhat stretched that video out into like what? 45 MInutes, when you could learn it in like 5 minutes. I don't want to be mean, but yeah. You have a video for every little drumming thing. Somewhat irritating sometimes.

OH yes, and I do love that chair in that video, that is friggin sweet.

Thank you. That is excellent constructive critisism. The video was our first production to date, and definately has lots of room for improvement. I'm very confident that if you saw the new Moeller Method or Bass Drum videos - you would be very impressed with the progress we've made. The demo band track on Google Video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8843463340889987851) showcases some of the quality if you are interested.

[Chip]

Secret: "A method or formula on which success is based"

My definition of secret:
1-kept hidden or seperate from the knowledge of all or all but a few others
2-Something unrevealed.
That is from a real dictionary, so ,yeah....
Once again, knowing this alone will not make one successful, it is not a trick for one to become successful.

[domnjozz]

Rick,

Sorry, but the name "Freehand Technique" has been known and associated with Johnny Rabb for years.

Faking ignorance does nothing for your case. It's like saying you never heard of Moeller Technique and invented your own whipping accent technique and "happened" to randomly name it "Moeller". "Oh really, someone else used that name? Never heard of it."

Maybe admitting it and fixing the video would be better. Honesty is usually the best policy. We're drummers seeking truth and education, not suckers looking for a "quick fix" to "blow people away" during "drum battles". We play music, and want to play it easier and better and learn how the drummers on our favorite albums created the parts that they did.

I think people realized your lack of credibility when you had that cool heel toe video out on the net for FREE for years, then decided to charge $10-20 for the EXACT SAME THING! If you are so eager to help people, put the FREE video back up and charge the $40-80 for the new DVD if it's so much more helpful.

The one thing that does seem interesting, that no one mentions, is the "lock grip technique" video, I'd like to hear more about that. Why isn't that it's own video?

Tim,

Your WFD Vid is great, and definitely worth the price! I highly recommend it to anyone on this board who doesn't have it. It's heel/toe, and has no "tricks" "secrets" or any other "ballistic" or wannabe (falk, kettner) adjectives.

Definitely let us know pricing/details/etc when your full vid comes out!

I currently take lessons from Tiger Bill, and so far, it has been mostly hand technique and exercises from his Double drum book. He has me doing heel down. He told me that building up ankle motion is as important as building up the wrists in hand technique. Where does it go from there? How do I get into more advanced stuff? How similar is your foot tech to his?

Thanks so much, keep up the good work!

H
www.myspace.com/howietherockstar

[rkettner]

Maybe admitting it and fixing the video would be better. Honesty is usually the best policy.

As I've mentioned... we would love to sell Johnny Rabbs video as a replacement to ours on our websites. That video was one of our first, and has room for improvement. Of course, a video by JR himself would be preferable - assuming he is interested. Unfortunately, his new DVD is not yet available, and his old one seems out of print (or unatainable at least).

PM me if you know where we can get copies of the old one, or if you have news on the new one. Michael (our lead sales rep) has been in talks with JRs management regarding this, and we hope to have a deal worked out asap. That said... we have left JR numerous messages in the past, and attemted to contact him through others... and have not heard back from him directly yet. The ball is really in his court at this time.

[Tim Waterson]

Tim,

Your WFD Vid is great, and definitely worth the price! I highly recommend it to anyone on this board who doesn't have it. It's heel/toe, and has no "tricks" "secrets" or any other "ballistic" or wannabe (falk, kettner) adjectives.

Definitely let us know pricing/details/etc when your full vid comes out!

I currently take lessons from Tiger Bill, and so far, it has been mostly hand technique and exercises from his Double drum book. He has me doing heel down. He told me that building up ankle motion is as important as building up the wrists in hand technique. Where does it go from there? How do I get into more advanced stuff? How similar is your foot tech to his?

Thanks so much, keep up the good work!

H
www.myspace.com/howietherockstar

Howie thanks and glad you like the WFD dvd.
The reason I am so against secrets is guys like Dom Famularo,Tigerbill, Jim Chapin, Art Verdi, and others who I consider MASTER drummers have been demonstrating techniques for FREE..and none of them say its secret or amazing or Ballistic or insane just common sense and economy of motion.


Dom and JIm are the ones who inspired me to really focus on getting something out there for the feet..
.
I am glad people find some of these techniques helpful thats WHY I put up the videos.
If I can help one drummer improve their bassdrum playing then I have done my job.
PS I agree with BILL on building control from heels down first.
BILL has amazing control with his hands and feet...
.
PS.... Rick and Jared none of the comments are meant as an insult..
there is room for everyone s videos...
If your NEW heel toe video is taking it in a NEW direction and If the New Moller guy can help you guys then good luck and God Bless...
Tim

[rkettner]

Rick and Jared none of the comments are meant as an insult..
there is room for everyone s videos...
If your NEW heel toe video is taking it in a NEW direction and If the New Moller guy can help you guys then good luck and God Bless...
Tim

I appreciate that Tim. We are definately trying to move in a positive direction, and with every new video production we're making huge leaps in quality and unique content. Videos have moved from 16 minute basic productions to 2.5 hour dual-dvd high quality videos... and we expect more great things to come (as the feedback we have been getting here is definately heard loud and clear).

There is definately room for everyone's videos, and we are very interested in distributing your video to our existing clients too. Contact Michael (phone info on railroadmedia.com) if you would like to discuss this possibility - it would be a great way to reach more drummers with your fantastic info. We are also looking at distributing JRs new video, and are in talks with his new distribution company.

[Tim Waterson]

for those off you inquiring about Geoge Kollias swivel technique here is a quote from the man himself used by permission..

Q,,What you do is kinda different from what i do,but not so much,i mean you play more like Pete Sandoval's swivel motion which is 1 stroke per side and then you mix it with Virgil's way which is Right in-Left out-Right out-Left in,which is more difficult,it takes longer time to get into it and that shows that you really nailed it brother!

I swivel only my left,usually,and it's like 2 strokes per side but still flat foot and ankle motion.For me,this difference (right=straight,left=side to side) brings the whole balance thing and keeps my body straight on the drum set.

Great clip and very good explaination Tim,you are doing a great job my friend.Also,it's more than a great honor to hear
my name on this clip and i wanna thank you for that,it's really a big honor man!.......

Keep on the great job brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


God Bless
Tim

[Latin Groover]

Is this the technique that Thomas Lang uses?

[Tim Waterson]

Is this the technique that Thomas Lang uses?

Thomas claims he does not move his feet at all....
although he does swivel his ankles a bit a higher speeds...
God Bless
Tim

[JWM]

Tim--

I know you have the singles record as well. What kind of motion did you use for it? Still a heel/toe thing?

Thanks!

[apollos84]

wow thanx for sharing thats a whole different approach.I myself have been practing the heel-toe with my bass pedal i kind of ave a natural tendancy to swivel so im gonna give that a try for my playing. Thanx

[Latin Groover]

Thomas claims he does not move his feet at all....
although he does swivel his ankles a bit a higher speeds...
God Bless
Tim

Wat! Its as plain as day on his DVD. His toes are the pivot point and he swivel, swivel, swivels!

[Tim Waterson]

Tim--

I know you have the singles record as well. What kind of motion did you use for it? Still a heel/toe thing?

Thanks!
The single stroke record was done in singles (no not heeltoe) and at that time my heels were pretty high off the ground.
Now my heels are lower but the do not touch the footboard
God Bless
Tim

[Latin Groover]

The single stroke record was done in singles (no not heeltoe) and at that time my heels were pretty high off the ground.
Now my heels are lower but the do not touch the footboard
God Bless
Tim

Oh ok. So it was just a sort of heel up approach. I thought you would've done heel toe but just made one chase the other.

[MOONCHILD]

really interesting i never tought of that well guess there this site is like a coledge to me always find something new

[MuDvAyNe]

come on guys this is a forum where we should help each other.If someone wants to make a video we are all open to see it.Other than that i'm giving that foot technique a shot :p

[JWM]

The single stroke record was done in singles (no not heeltoe) and at that time my heels were pretty high off the ground.
Now my heels are lower but the do not touch the footboard
God Bless
Tim
Cool...

That's a sigh of relief. Just hard work with heels up to attain that then I suppose. I was afraid of hearing about yet another technique... it can get a bit overwhelming when you're trying to be your best and constantly hearing about a "new" technique all the time!

I saw on Virg's board about the Iron Cobra Man guy. I watched his youtube with his heels approach. Sick stuff there...

[borknagar6]

I watched Tim Waterson's video explaining it but I still do not get it. I tried it but I just feel like I'm moving my leg up and down while moving my ankle left to right. I don't understand the difference between the Swivel technique and just moving you leg up and down.

So, if anyone can explain what the swivel is and what it does I would be greatly appreciative.

[Jay.B.]

Not sure I can answer your question as such, but, from your description, it would seem I have been doing this, or something very similar for years without realising. From what I can gather the "swivel" gives your ankle/foot more of a fluid motion rather than just a straight up and down which is actually quite limited in motion, thus enabling you to get some pretty quick and slick doubles in on the bass drum.

If this isn't the case, I'm sure somebody here will set you and me straight

[Tutin]

The way I play swivel is almost like the flatfoot technique except I swivel my foot (obviously). You mainly play with your ankles, so try to avoid a full leg motion.

George Kollias has a great video demonstrating how he plays swivel: Here you go (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRQKMkOuDG4)

Hope this helps.

Tutin

[fazzybOO`]

Swivel technique is used for you to be able to better keep track of what your feet are doing basically. You'll notice if you try to go super fast, it turns into a calve twitching motion and it's hard to keep track of what you're doing, and then you get tangled up and start hitting the bass randomly. Well, this is just to stop that... But yea, it's no different to the up-down heel up technique other than that.

[Tim Waterson]

Swivel technique is used for you to be able to better keep track of what your feet are doing basically. You'll notice if you try to go super fast, it turns into a calve twitching motion and it's hard to keep track of what you're doing, and then you get tangled up and start hitting the bass randomly. Well, this is just to stop that... But yea, it's no different to the up-down heel up technique other than that.

I spoke to George and he does 2 notes per side with his left ankle.

The swivel I use is produced by a whip (Moeller)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIFXqpnQ5PY
The Glide is more akin to gladstone as you just CONTROL, the notes.
PS there is NO shivering or twitching involved in this or ANY of the techniques I use.....its all explained on the dvd.
Tim

[fazzybOO`]

I spoke to George and he does 2 notes per side with his left ankle.

The swivel I use is produced by a whip (Moeller)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIFXqpnQ5PY
The Glide is more akin to gladstone as you just CONTROL, the notes.
PS there is NO shivering or twitching involved in this or ANY of the techniques I use.....its all explained on the dvd.
Tim
Okay, so he plays two on each side. I still see it as a technique to know where you are and help you keep pace. I might be wrong :D

[jazzin']

That is why our videos have step-by-step systems for first learning and then applying each technique. It's a complete formula for success.




I really hope you don't actually believe that. To try and pass this off as a 'complete formula for success' is not only ignorant, it is plain and simply arrogant as well.

No one, and I mean no one, should ever market something so blatantly as being a 'complete formula for success' as that is the same thing as saying if I show you the single stroke roll, you will become a successful drummer. There is simply no truth to that statement.

There will never be a 'complete formula for success' to anything. There are a myriad of factors to take into consideration when determining if someone will be successful and the learning of techniques is an amazingly small part of this.

As for the secrets, I think you're pulling out your own definitions. 'Not known or seen or not meant to be known or seen by others' is the literal definition. To market these as secrets that are also a 'complete formula for success' is immoral in the extreme in my opinion, although you do sound like more of a bad businessman than a musician.

This horrid type of hype marketing based on techniques that will generally waste more time than make one a better musician is a simple ploy at looking at what can fool people into believing it will make them a better player and passing it off to make money. It is turning up more and more and is really very sad. I had always had the idealistic notion that musicians wouldn't sink into hype marketing. These type of video techniques will never make a drummer into a musician. Don't pass it off as something that will.

Sorry to jump your thread Tim. Good luck with your video, at least you actually care.

[bigfatbobby]

Hi! I am 15 years now, and I have started working on the bassdrum-technique that Jan Axel Blomberg uses. He first plays a stroke with his whole foot, and then pulls up his heel and pushes down with the toe. This gives him two beats.

1. Blomberg told me that he practiced the technique for about three hours a day for three months, and then he could manage the technique. He started of in '94, I think, at the age of 25. The 'golden age' to learn things is about 16, or what? So if he would have started of with this technique as a 16year old, how much faster would it take him to master the technique? (Not that I am comparing myself to him in any way, I'm just curious).

2. I have a DW 7000; not so good for things over 200. But if I am mastering the technique on this pedal, will I then be much better on f. ex. Axis-pedals later on?

3. If you play Axis-pedals on a daily basis, do you 'suck' on 'regular' pedals then?

4. How can I know if I'm doing things right? Because I don't have a teacher that can explain this technique. I actually think that Blomberg is the only drummer in Norway that has studied foot-techniques so precisely.

PS: Blomberg does 290 for 14 seconds at the new Dimmu-record!

Thanks!

Felix

[DreamTheater4life]

Yeah just how fast is george, cus i have herd so many diffrent speeds some seem very far out there and some seem more like it.

george can lock in 270 i believe. he does it on the new Nile album