Teaching Open handed as opposed to crossed

[k3ng]

Well, this has been bugging me for abit.

I teach drums at me music school, mostly beginners who are just there to learn how to play stuff. I've debated with myself about teaching new students to play open handed as opposed to crossed. I play crossed myself, but I do believe open handed has a real big load of advantages. It would take me a long time to relearn 9 years of crossed playing as open handed playing, which is why I haven't made the switch. I don't plan to since I also play trad in my left, which would cause even more problems.

Anyway, seeing as how I play crossed, I naturally teach students to play crossed. I'm thinking of trying to teach some to play open handed from the start.

What are your views on this? Should a student be taught open handed from the start? Should a teacher playing crossed teach the student to play crossed or open?

[Deathmetalconga]

I commend you on your appreciation for open-handed playing and your open-mindedness about it.

I think if someone is going to learn open or crossed, the best time to do that is when they are first learning. That is how I learned to play open, because my very first instructor played open and insisted I did also.

You will have some unusual difficulties, however. Any student wants to emulate their teacher. You will have to explain that you think playing open is more natural, but you learned crossed and that's how you play and it's just too difficult to re-learn such a thing. From a technical standpoint, it might be hard to teach certain fills and maneuvers if you are playing crossed and they are playing open. You will have to learn some playing open just to teach certain things. But I think you could make it past these issues.

[Class A Drummer]

I would suggest teaching your students to play crossed for two important reason.

1. You play crossed which means you will definitley understand it more and be able to help your kids understand and learn it easier. It will not only benifit you but them also. It will benifit you by probably making it easier on yourself just because you are use to it and have the experiance as a cross handed player. The students should benefit because you probably would teach crossed better than open.

2. My other reason is because such a huge amount of the drumming population plays crossed. By playing crossed, more people will be able to help them and explain different things easier just as it would probably be easier for you.

[bighaibigdrums]

Teach crossed. They will figure out open on their own later on. If they want to.

[JCM]

I have been playing crossed now for about 8 months but I have switched to open handed. I am still working on technical issues (grip) and playing open handed has its benefits. I would teach them to play open handed because a strong left hand will help in making your rolls and rudiments even and much cleaner. Alternatively, you could teach them crossed but after a while let them know about open handed playing and see if they are interested.

[h3r3tic]

I have been playing crossed now for about 8 months but I have switched to open handed. I am still working on technical issues (grip) and playing open handed has its benefits. I would teach them to play open handed because a strong left hand will help in making your rolls and rudiments even and much cleaner. Alternatively, you could teach them crossed but after a while let them know about open handed playing and see if they are interested.


I agree
20 characters lol

[Legacyrik]

I wouldn't force them to... Especially if you haven't made the switch. I would definately go into the advantages and whatnot with them and give them the option.

[Deathmetalconga]

I teach any new students who are new drummers to play open-handed. However, if they insist on crossing, I allow that.

For experienced students who play crossed, I give them an option, but I encourage them to atleast try open-handed playing because of the wide possibilities it offers.

I play open-handed sometimes and try to work it in a lot, but in serious times, I find myself going back to crossed! Open-handed really starts to make great sense as your hands just naturally fall in front of you. I'm really starting to notice some of the limits of crossing, but still really like how I can play funk beats/buzzes and such. There's always the right placed closed hi-hat option also.

That's a fair approach. If they're going to learn open, the time to do it is when they're a young skull full of mush just starting out and you give them that option. It's too difficult to change open/crossed orientation later on and the hassle isn't worth it, unless you are seeking ambidexterity, which is a separate skill altogether.

It's true, the vast majority of drummers play crossed, but that doesn't mean it's a superior approach. In fact, if the vast majority of people are doing something a certain way, that might be a good reason to explore doing it a different way. If you play like everyone else, you will sound like everyone else.

[Robin]

I'm righhanded but when I started to played the drums when I was 10 ( I'm 17 ), I went with open-handed playing because crossed feels so locked and just "wrong", it doesn't quite feel right. As the name state, open-handed is more Open and free.

[k3ng]

Well, this thread isn't really about 'playing crossed as opposed to open' but rather on teaching it to new drummers. Especially if the teacher plays crossed.

I've more than mentioned playing to my students and often presented them with the choice to play open handed should they decide to themselves, but most of them are lazy, for the lack of a better word, to make the change. Even after learning say 6 months of crossed, it's already starting to stick. I do wish to give my students to chance to play opened, hence debating whether I should teach them open from the start.

Are there any teachers who play crossed and insist on teaching open? I don't think there are many are there? Practice what you preach isn't it.. hahaha...

I'll give it a bash the next time I get a freshie and I'll let you in on the results.

[crazyhorse]

I think a lot of it comes down to grip as well... I just started teaching a 12 year old and his dad used to play drums... Dad has already tried to get him to play traditional since that's what he learned growing up. While I commend him I know that the school band teacher is going to flip that stick right back over so I'm trying to get him to learn both ways. Once we get to the actual set I think his grip is going to determine how he ends up playing.

I'm a lefty so playing open handed is natural to me. Plus I get the advantage of starting the vast majority of my fills with my right hand. However... if I want to play traditional on a set I have to cross up because there's really no point in having a traditional grip playing on the hihats. If nothing else it is great practice to play both ways.

[STICKLER]

hey i just reading wat u were saying about crossed as apossed to open, i am left handed but wen i started playing the drums 9yrs ago i played a right handed set up and played it open handed wich was the same as if i played the kit as a lefty and crossed the sticking!i found as i progressed with my technique i had to change everything!i now play a right handed kit with crossed hands so its a little strang for a lefted handed person but its wat i found is best for me!i gues there are alot of pros and cons to open and crossed but really its down to wat the drummer is most comfortable with!teaching drums is amazing but u must let the student choose because if he is uncomfortable with the open handed his drummin will not progress as fast and as smooth!
it happened to me and i now how frustrating it can be to start again from scratch! let the student choose.
cheers.

[Deathmetalconga]

Well, this thread isn't really about 'playing crossed as opposed to open' but rather on teaching it to new drummers. Especially if the teacher plays crossed.

I've more than mentioned playing to my students and often presented them with the choice to play open handed should they decide to themselves, but most of them are lazy, for the lack of a better word, to make the change. Even after learning say 6 months of crossed, it's already starting to stick. I do wish to give my students to chance to play opened, hence debating whether I should teach them open from the start.

Are there any teachers who play crossed and insist on teaching open? I don't think there are many are there? Practice what you preach isn't it.. hahaha...

I'll give it a bash the next time I get a freshie and I'll let you in on the results.

My first teacher in 1983 played open and insisted I do it. I gave him some lame excuses "Nobody else plays like that" "The drummer for Def Leppard plays crossed" (back when he had two hands) etc.

My teacher said nobody plays the piano or guitar with crossed hands because it's just plain awkward. He said there is no left-hand or right-hand with the drum set, similar to the piano. Lefties or righties don't cross their hands to play the piano, or change the keys around - they conform to the instrument.

I am glad he laid down the law about it. I have always played open now and I enjoy the benefits of it. But from a teacher-pupil perspective, it will be harder for students to follow you if you don't play open yourself, both for social and technical reasons.

If you're serious about teaching open, you're going to have to insist on it. Tell them that after six months, they can play crossed if they want. But by then your orientation is pretty much set for life and would be difficult to re-learn.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

Are you more concerned with whether or not your students play open versus crossed, or if they can have equal strength and control with both hands? Think about it this way. Imagine the standard set up for a right handed player with hats on the left. Throw away that normal hi-hat stand and instead, use a remote hat stand set on the right side of the kit. You're still playing the hats with your right hand and your snare with your left, but you are no longer crossing your arms. You're playing open handed.

So that's why I ask, is it more important that your students play open versus crossed, or that they develop independence with both hands?

[805Drummer]

It's interesting...

When I first started drums about 7 years ago, I played open-handed to begin with, because I was left handed, and my lessons only had a right-handed drum set.

So then fast forward about 6 years, and I break my left elbow. It's in a cast for 6 weeks, and I have to do everything with my right hand.

Now I play crossed, because I'm partially right-handed.

So...that's my story...

[mrchattr]

As any of you who read the main debate about open VS crossed a few months back knows, I'm a big fan of learning (teaching) both ways. However, I have to say that to start, I always teach crossed. There are numerous reasons for this:

1. We live in an age where your students will learn as much or more from external sources (internet, videos, DVDs, books, peers) than they learn from you. Most drumming is done crossed, so in order for the student to be able to emulate what they see in the vast majority of those situations, they need to be able to play crossed.

2. Most students get frustrated if they can't learn some basic stuff fairly quickly. When you are starting, your dominant hand will be a lot stronger, so when learning beats, it's easier to keep the 1&2&3&4& going with that for a longer period of time while only using the weaker hand to play 2 and 4. Now, of course, a good teacher will work to get the weaker hand stronger...but for a total noob, it might be frustrating to not even be able to sustain a basic rock beat for an extended period of time.

3. Most books are written with the crossed approach in mind. Stickings underneath the parts, etc. Making a new student reverse all of that might be a little too much for them. Also, going along with this, as they learn parts from other places (school, etc), they will often be based on the right hand starting on the hi hat.

4. It's important to teach the history of the instrument along with the parts you teach your students how to play. After a while, if you introduce your young drummer to numerous famous drummers, and they all play one way, your student will either want to do that, or will start to question why his drum teacher won't let him play in the same way as Buddy and the rest of the gang.

Also, k3ng, in your case, if you don't play open, I don't really see HOW you can expect to teach open very well. So much of teaching comes not from what you say, but students watching what you do. Even if you understand the concept, if you can't show it to them properly, then you won't be teaching them effectively.

I think learning to play both open and crosses is really a great thing, and important to being a career drummer. It has been for me, anyway. But I think you have to start a guy off crossed.

[blade123]

I think cross handed is the way to go. Teaching open handed is just adding unnecessary complexity, especially for a new student.

[dcrigger]

For a left handed student in a world of right handed drumsets? Sure.

For a right handed student? What in the world for?

If you look at the full gamut of professional players and their work, you'll see there is no precedent for inflicting this upon a beginning student, and little precedent to ever distracting a more advanced student with it either.

The lion's share of open handed players were left handed to begin with. And most of them don't switched to crossed anymore than crossed players switch to open. Why? Because the small advantages of doing so are rarely worth the time and energy it takes to learn to do it.

I can't see how being able to play both ways could at all be important to building one's drumming career.

David

[Sirwill]

I'm so glad to finally be able to talk about my "to cross or not to cross issues". I have been drumming and playing open since 1975. And over the last three years I have FORCED myself to play crossed. The reason for the experiment is simple... I needed to teach my right arm to ride the cymbals (for years I rode the ride with my left hand crossing my right). Anyway, after the experiment I'm oddly able to say that I now play a HYBRID CROSS (And yes I'm claiming that term). The definition of the HYBRID CROSS is a simple combo-nation of the two styles in one song that creates a more natural fill around the kit. Give it a try... you might like it.

[jeffwj]

I agree with mrchattr. I teach crossed, unless it is a left handed student that has been playing on a right handed setup. Crossed allows the strong hand to play more notes with more sensitivity than the weaker hand.

To me, playing crossed feels like I am playing left handed for beats and right handed for fills. I think that a player can achieve the "benefits" of open handed playing by playing right hand lead and using a remote hi-hat. Of course beginners will need to play crossed until they make the investment/decision to by the remote pedal, but they will not need to relearn a different way of playing.

Jeff

[Deltadrummer]

I agree,

This is a question I struggled with for a while as a teacher. I love playing open-handed;. I also love crossed. I can see the benefits of open-handed playing but ultimately it came down to making the learning process as easy as possible for a beginner. Even if your student will ultimately play open-handed predominantly, it is good to have those patterns with the right hand as well. What if the student wants to ride the floor tom, or ride a crash on the right side, or a cowbell. I went to see Karl Perazzo a few weeks ago and I noticed he can work off the clave with either hand. That is the goal, isn't it? Being able to lead with either? So teach right hand lead to begin with, then left hand lead.

If someone is going to just get into drums for love of instrument and play pretty straight forward, rock, R and B, top 40, why fuss with the grater technical issues. Anyway, once you can play it one way, relearning it the other is not too hard.

[bobdadruma]

I agree with mrchattr. I teach crossed, unless it is a left handed student that has been playing on a right handed setup. Crossed allows the strong hand to play more notes with more sensitivity than the weaker hand.

To me, playing crossed feels like I am playing left handed for beats and right handed for fills. I think that a player can achieve the "benefits" of open handed playing by playing right hand lead and using a remote hi-hat. Of course beginners will need to play crossed until they make the investment/decision to by the remote pedal, but they will not need to relearn a different way of playing.

JeffI was intrigued to read that you teach that way. I'm one of those lefties that prefers to play his kit righty. Back in 1970, when my instructor found out that I was a lefty,He offered me the option based on what felt natural to me. We did some test on my playing and I made the final decision to play righty. I have to also tell you that I had already learned the Traditional grip in drum corp. I also was setting my kit lefty when I met the instructor. I hope that this isn't to confusing.

[k3ng]

Aha another one of my old threads.

Glad to see the search function being used sometimes.. (or is someone going back a couple of pages to see what happened way back then?)

Well, I have been teaching almost everyone I know crossed so far except for lefties. In my other thread somewhere I was learning to teach my cousin (who is a leftie) to play on a righty kit. And he's now playing open handed. And I teach open handed. It's a learning experience for me.

There are great advantages to learning open immediately. I've seen some of them and DMC here is probably the one person I know that champions open handed playing. But as mentioned, I myself have found it difficult to explain open handed playing and it's advantages to new students who see me doing things differently. It's hard enough to teach them to play matched instead of trad. However, I usually open up the option at the beginning of the class, especially if my student is a young teen who can sit through a little bit more vocal explanations that smaller children. Most students opt for playing crossed (right handers) and open for the lefties. However, I've also had a student insist on learning open as a righty (I believe he's heard it from other people and also from Simon Phillips when he gave a clinic here) and I taught him how to go about it.

The best balance I've come across so far is to lay out the options for the students and teach them the way they prefer BUT ultimately stress that the hands eventually end up being equal (at least the aim of it is). I always insist to my cousin who's a lefty that ultimately after practice and practice, both hands must learn to do the same things. It seems to be working.

So yeah, just some extra input after maybe more than a year of teaching and experience.

Cheers.

[Boomka]

My teacher said nobody plays the piano or guitar with crossed hands because it's just plain awkward. He said there is no left-hand or right-hand with the drum set, similar to the piano. Lefties or righties don't cross their hands to play the piano, or change the keys around - they conform to the instrument.

Ahh yes, but you can't change the position of the keys on a piano. You can manipulate the traditional drumset configuration in all kinds of useful and interesting ways.

[bobdadruma]

Being an Old Schooler, I only recently began the practice of occasionally playing open hand. I see the benefits and I agree that a drummer should know both crossed and open techniques. I also think that you should know matched and traditional grips.