Why do chinas sound like... chinas?

[Raymond Bloom]

this has bugged my mind for a while... so

why do china cymbals has that specific, trasy sound? is it because of the shape? I thought that was the reason, but if I'm not mistaken John Blackwell has a Signature FLAT china! Now I'm confused...

can anybody clear this up for me? otherwise I won't be able to sleep tonight because of this lol

[Class A Drummer]

I was always pretty sure it was the shape. Do you have a video where he uses his flat china? Im kinda interested.

[Cymbalrider]

Chinas get their sound based on the bell shape and edge shape. John Blackwell's FLAT china has no bell but still has flared edges.
http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/sabian/pages/jia_china.htm
Sabian also has these "sound control" rides which are rides with a bit of flared edge and it gives them more of a china sound. Back in the day there were PANG cymbals which were mixes between rides and chinas. Bosphorus still makes one in the Stanton Moore signature line.

[fourstringdrums]

I was always pretty sure it was the shape. Do you have a video where he uses his flat china? Im kinda interested.

Check out the videos under his page. I'm fairly certain he uses it on almost all of them.

[fooleeze]

Chinas sound like that because they're pissed off because they look funny.

[T.Underhill]

Ancient Chinese Secret......duh.

[Class A Drummer]

Chinas sound like that because they're pissed off because they look funny.

Fooleeze... That was an absolutley amazingly funny comment. I just had to say that incase nobody else comments on it.

Like i nearly fell out of my chair. That was amazing. :D

[fooleeze]

:) Thanks.

Did you ever notice how the Sabian Rocktagon sounds self-conscious?

[tooldrums1000]

China type cymbals typically have a bell that is cylindrical or shaped like a truncated cone with its base the top of the bell, an outer rim that is turned up in the reverse direction to the main bow of the cymbal, little or no taper (change in thickness) from bell to rim, and an area including the inside of the bell that is unpolished. However some china type cymbals have only some or in some cases none of these distinguishing characteristics. The distinguishing feature of a china type cymbal is the one that is hardest to define: Its sound. China cymbals are those whose sounds are derived from the Chinese, rather than the Turkish, tradition of cymbal making.

and

wuhans are manufactured by children.haha

[karmadharma]

I am wondering if it's the bell more than anything, as I used to have a really cool 6" 'china splash' that had a standard edge but a very weird shaped bell that sounded a lot more china-y than splash-y.

[georgeman]

I always thought it was because they always beat the $h!T out of them before they laved them down creating uneven vibrations making the China sound

but it Must be AN ACIENT CHINESE SECERET

george

[tamadrummer132]

my guess is that the edges make the sound waves scared. and then they scream becuase they dont want to be ripped by the edge.

[Drumowner]

Ancient Chinese Secret......duh.

Man, I knew that was the answer...Calgon soap and cymbals...you have to love those Ancient secrets of the Chinese type.

[fusssion]

I'd have to disagree w/ the "shape" theory .....I just got a new Saluda Diamond trash-splash the was hammered upside down (custom) and has numerous holes in it and sounds like a china .....

[Drumms]

I'd have to disagree w/ the "shape" theory .....I just got a new Saluda Diamond trash-splash the was hammered upside down (custom) and has numerous holes in it and sounds like a china .....

Most of Stagg's crashes sound like chinas as well, with more sustain.

[Skitch]

Chinas get their sound based on the bell shape and edge shape. John Blackwell's FLAT china has no bell but still has flared edges.
http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/sabian/pages/jia_china.htm
Sabian also has these "sound control" rides which are rides with a bit of flared edge and it gives them more of a china sound. Back in the day there were PANG cymbals which were mixes between rides and chinas. Bosphorus still makes one in the Stanton Moore signature line.

I had a vintage Zildjian Pang and it sounded much smoother than a China. It was a great cymbal!



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

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[CQXLCQX]

In traditional music in China, China cymbals isn't used by 1 piece Only．that is pair to used . (like the picture）...so why the WUHAN china have the bell like that. they make the very noisy and trash sound in China traditional music.

I think, ......maybe.....when people find this sound we need it in our drum sets. they will ask: "should we call it what????" ......Because the sound has a Chinese characteristics.....so...call it "china".

.....haha......Is just my guess........

[Cymbalrider]

There you go, the bells are handles...makes sense...

[Skitch]

There you go, the bells are handles...makes sense...


Yeah,

I actually learned this from a Paiste rep, Ed Clift. He told me that the bell on china cymbals from china were shaped that way to be held by hand. I guess I really didn't understand the question asked. I thought that it had something to with the upturned edge. I am not certain that the bell shpe has alot to do with the sound as the Zildjian swish cymbals are pretty trashy as well.



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

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[Big_Philly]

The sound of a cymbal is determined by it's geometry to a certain extent, but being hammered into it's geometry is the thing that really matters. If you hammer the crap out of a piece of sheet metal (which is basically what a cymbal is), it will cause internal tension in the metal. The amount of tension, and the distribution if it as well, have a great influence on the sound characteristics. The lathing and finishing of a cymbal determines the more subtle characteristics.

To an extent it can be compared to something much simpler: a guitar string. You can clearly hear the difference between nylon and steel strings, that's the influence of the material itself (for a cymbal it would be the influence of the specific alloy). The sound it makes is determined by the amount of tension, which determines the main frequency, and the place where it is plucked (try plucking a steel string right in the middle, you'll get a very clean sine wave sound compared to when you pluck it near the bridge (or whatever it is that's usually somewhere near 1/3rd or 1/4th of the string's length. These same physical principles apply to cymbals, except they are much more complex.

If you are interested in the physics of cymbals you should read "Theory of plates and shells", by S. Timoshenko.

[Raymond Bloom]

Thanks everyone!

Interesting oppinions! To get a more precise explanation, we could ask this question to Johan, who actually makes cymbals! He knows his stuff very well

[tamadrummer132]

i have a zildjian oriental splash, which is made trashy by the china shaped bell.
I also have 2 zildjian chinas (a 19"k and a 16" china boy) which have the bell and the flared edges.

I definitly think that the bell has a big thing to with that, and the flared edges gives it a faster decay and more trash.