1980's Ludwig

[wooltonboy]

I've seen an ad for a Ludwig kit that has the black & white badges.
It's apparantly from the 1980's. From the pics i saw, it looks to be in really good condition.
Looks to have a 12/13/16 combo, plus chrome snare.
It's going for $400.
Would this be the "Rocker" series?
Just caught me eye as a possible practice kit.
Cheers
Phil

[T.Underhill]

It's a rocker series and if it's from the 80's it should be a decent kit especially for practice. I have one and it's good for practice, you could even gig with it if you want.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

1980's Ludwig black & white Badges can be a little confusing so you need a little more in order to determine exactly what line you may be looking at. Here's a shot of the Badge in question for those who may not be familiar with it............
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237765651.jpg

Around 1984 Ludwig had not one, not two, but three lines that used the B&W Badge, the first, which was listed in their Full Line Catalog that year was the S/L Series (S/L = Standard Line???.) This Series included The Nine, Phaser Power & Phaser Five Outfits and are easy to tell from the Rocker / Rocker II (the other two B&W badged series) that came on the scene about that same time, 1984-85. The S/L Series used the regular Classic Lugs whereas the Rocker & Rocker II had their own style of Lug, which was borrowed, for the first few years at least, from Ludwig's old Standard Line offered back in the late 60's early 70's....................

Here is the 1988 Rocker & Rocker II Shell information, the 1984 Catalog stated that the S/L Series was a less expensive line using 4-ply Shells for the Toms & Snare & 6-ply for the Bass. Note that the Rocker Shell inside finish was clear laquer (shown at left) with the Rocker II Shells getting Ludwig's Granitone Finish................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237760297.jpg

Here's a shot of from the 1984 Full Line Catalog showing the S/L Series Phaser Five, the Nine was a Double Bass Outfit with the Phaser Power a "beefed-up" Five. Note less expensive straight style Bass Drum Spurs..............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237768298.jpg

LVDC

[wooltonboy]

These are the only 2 pics that we're posted on the ad.
The kit is across the other side of the city, but I think it'd be worth a drive anyway just to see.
I can't tell the lug style by these pics.
Thanks for the info
Phil

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Your'e welcome Phil, those are early Rocker / Rocker II Lugs, I know, I'm just finishing up cleaning 44 of the old Standards, which were the same...................

LVDC

[T.Underhill]

I didn't know they had 3 lines that had that badge, I thought only the two Rocker series did. Huh ya learn something new everyday. From the looks of it I still say it's a Rocker kit.

[wooltonboy]

So, the concensus would be that they're worth $400?
They look fairly decent, but you never know 'till you inspect them I guess.
Thanks again all
P

[harryconway]

For the money, jump on 'em. Better than any new kit out there for twice price.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

So, the concensus would be that they're worth $400?

They are worth what you are willing to pay Phil, but should be worth that price if in good condition................

Just because the S/L Series does create a lot of confusion getting mistaken for Rocker / Rocker II's on a regular basis here's some larger shots of the Phaser Power. Hopefully you can make out the B&W Badges better on the darker wrap as well as the fact that they did indeed have Ludwig's regular Classic Lugs....................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237772480.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237772542.jpg

Another thing that confuses many when it comes to the Rocker Series is that Ludwig used Rocker Heads on many of their Kits so even a Pro-Line Maple Kit may be called a Rocker Outfit if one doesn't know this. I've seen it many times on eBay.................

LVDC

[wooltonboy]

I've seen an ad for a Ludwig kit that has the black & white badges.
It's apparantly from the 1980's. From the pics i saw, it looks to be in really good condition.
Looks to have a 12/13/16 combo, plus chrome snare.
It's going for $400.
Would this be the "Rocker" series?
Just caught me eye as a possible practice kit.
Cheers
Phil
Actually, looking at the pic the guy sent, it looks to be a 14" tom on top of the snare?
Would it be a 13/14 combo?
I called the guy and said I'd go over tomorrow to have a look
P

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Phil, now that I've "muddied" the waters by talking about the S/L Series let's see if I can get back on track and focus on the Rocker Series.................

While it's hard to tell from the photo what size Toms those are I'm pretty sure that the Kit you are interested in has the 1/2" Arched Bass Drum Spurs. Because of this I'm thinking it's a 1984 to 1986, or thereabouts, Rocker Kit and not a Rocker II which used the newer style Spurs commonly found on Kits today.................

Here's the information from 1984-85, when they were first introduced, that will show the Spurs as well as the Kit configurations & list the component Drums for both the Rocker & Rocker II.........................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237889248.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237889654.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237889975.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237890054.jpg

The following images are from the 1988 full line Catalog. Note that now both the Rocker & Rocker II are pictured with a "newer-style" Spur set-up with the Rocker having the "best" (telescoping) version of the two.............................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237890224.jpg

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237890577.jpg

This last image shows the Conventional Rocker Outfits for 1988.
The chart for their Rocker Power Outfits listed quite a few more Kit's than the conventional chart does............

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237890695.jpg


Hope this helps...................LVDC

[T.Underhill]

Now we know why you call yourself "ludwigvondrumcrazy". As an owner of an 80's Rocker kit this info is great. Thanks!

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Thanks T, you're more than welcome!
Glad you found this information helpful.....................

LVDC

[fusssion]

Looks like Rocker II lugs on the kit to me..........

[wooltonboy]

What a great resource for all things "Luddy"!
Thank you LVDC for all this helpful info, just terrific
Phil

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

You're more than welcome Phil....................

From now on I'm sure that I'll be thinking of you and these drums everytime I get off the 401 onto 115 on our way to visit friends in Peterborough, Lakefield & other places like Buckhorn & Bancroft.......

Good luck!!
LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

For those of you interested in the Rocker or Rocker II's you may have heard that they used the same Lug as the old Standard Line Ludwig offered from 1968 to the early 70's. While this is true if looking at the outside of the shell, this probably won't apply to the inside, or mounting portion of the Lug..............

Now that I'm retired I've found myself working longer hours reconditioning vintage Drums & Kits than I ever did when I had a "real job" and have found that stripping out old Kits for cleaning is the best way to learn the in's & out's of what parts were used during what time frame. I've also found that many Kit's or Drums have been "messed with" over the years with different parts swapped out by Drummers so no matter what you may think you know, you may come across something that leaves you scratching your head. With that said, I'll get back to the point I'm trying to make.....................

As I mentioned before, Ludwig had a Line called the Standard that they discontinued back in the early 70's that used a Lug that looked exactly like the Rocker & Rocker II Lugs from about 1984-85, when they were introduced, to about 1990 or '91 when the Rocker got a new style that looked something like the old fashion tube Lugs......

Here's a shot from the 1968 Standard Catalog that will help illustrate my point.............
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/238006398.jpg


The similarity between the Standard & Rocker's Lugs works well for identification purposes but if you are looking to replace Lugs on either Series you may like to know that the Standard Lug had a longer stud that went thru the shell to accept the screw. Because of this Ludwig used a Cup Washer, which was the same as used on their metal sheel Snares whereas the Rocker & Rocker II had a shorter Stud that used a regular wood shell screw & washer assembly...............

Here's a shot of a couple of Standard Lugs with the fasteners used on those shells, which were Ludwig's 3-plys...............
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237990006.jpg

In the next couple of days I have to run over to a friend's and pick up 20 + Rocker / Rocker II Lugs so I don't have any of those on hand at the present time but really don't need them to show you the difference.

Here's a shot of a Ludwig Large Classic that shows the length of the studs (backside of Lug) as well as the fastners used on the Rocker / Rocker II Lugs..........................
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL725/3888856/13050500/237990626.jpg

The point I am trying to make is that if you are looking to replace some Lugs on either a Standard or Rocker / Rocker II Drum please keep in mind that while they may look exactly the same on the outside, the Screw Stud on the back of the Lugs are basically twice as long on the Standard as on the Rocker / Rocker II Lugs so will probably need different fasteners. Learning things like this is what makes reconditioning Vintage Drums & Outfits all worth while and keeps it interesting, the "Flitz On / Flitz Off (Metal Polish) & Wax On / Wax Off" part of the process sure as heck doesn't......................

On a related note, I've come across five different versions of Ludwig's Large Classic Lugs & about the same for the Mini-Classics that they used over the years so you just never know what you may find when working on an old Kit.....................

LVDC

[drummer don]

Does anyone know where i can purchase the white frost wrap oh and i would like to buy a 16/16 floor tom of the same color thanks Don

[latzanimal]

Once again, great info LVDC.

I would like to add that although the studs are different length, the hole spacing is exactly the same as a large Classic lug. So while you may need different screw/washers to swap out lugs, you will not have to redrill any holes.

Kudos again, LVDC!!

[leftsideludwig]

One year later ... is anyone reading this thread?

The conversation about 80s Ludwigs gives me an opportunity to ask about my Classics (6-ply,which I bought new in 1989, and are stamped '1989' inside.

My kit has the "new" keystone badges, 4-curved bass spurs, heavy-duty modular "pyramid" tom mounts, mach lugs, config. 6.5x14 (supraphonic) 11x12, 12x13, 16x16, 16x22, heavy duty-double braced hardware, with a charcoal shadow lacquer finish.

I bought the kit brand new in 1989, and recently learned this kit (on wnymusic.com from girlwhoplaysdrums) was among Ludwig's then top-of-the-line, second only to the Super Classics, which had 3-ply shells.

How long was this particular model for sale, and was it really top-of-the-line?

When I see this model kit for sale on eBay, they're described as late 80s, early 90s, have the "new" keystone badges, but invariably have telescoping bass spurs.

Maybe you can explain this: The other day on eBay, a kit for sale was EXACTLY like mine (only differences were regular lugs and a clear maple finish): same spurs, same tom mount, same configuration, same "new" keystone badges -- but the owner (and I asked him) was absolutely certain that they were from 1983.

Is this possible? Nearly all the 80s kits I've see on eBay have the old tom mounts (not the pyramid modular), black/white or maybe even olive/blue badges. Did that model appear that early?

Last, does anyone have an idea what I could get for my drums on eBay. They are in fantastic condition with just one or two pencil eraser-sized dings on the bass drum from my tom, and the typical bass pedal scrapes on my bass drum hoop. The entire kit has recently purchased Evans and Aquarian heads.

Any information about my kit is be greatly appreciated.

[harryconway]

One thing about Ludwig. Expect the "unexpected". Many items found on Ludwig drums are not listed as "features" in a given catalog year. So for example, you want disappearing spurs rather than telescopic, you order those. You want a virgin kick. You can have it. The L-arm tom mount rather than the modular. Special order and it's yours. I am not aware of any 3 ply shells coming out circa 1989, so you got me on that one. It was 1976 that the 6 ply was introduced. Your drums, would/are indeed top-of-the-line. You won't get the "big money" for them on eBay (not like pre-76 3 ply drums) but they're great tubs. I had a set of 6 ply (26, 15, 16, 18). Great drums. As far as "what can you get for them on eBay?", you could not have picked a worse time to sell. Except maybe "later on" or "next year", if the economy gets worse. I'd sell them as individual drums. Why force a cat to buy a whole kit, when maybe he really only wants the 13" rack tom. For an extra 10 cents, you can choose when your auction starts, and hence, when it ends. Space the auctions 10 or 15 minutes apart. So in 1 hours time, a buyer wanting the whole set can score the whole set. But you're also attracting buyers who want just "orphan drums" also.

[leftsideludwig]

Thanks for the information. I meant 4-ply, not 3-ply -- sorry. I am pretty sure the Super Classics were 4-ply. I could be wrong.

You're saying that a buyer could order anything. Was the pyramid-type modular mount available in 1983?

Thanks for the ebay strategy. I'm not actively looking to sell my drums, per se. I'm more interested in buying another late 80s-early 90s Classic, or a Super Classic -- just with a 12,13,14, 20 configuration and standard lugs, so I want to get an idea of what would be a good deal, and to see what mine are worth if I need to unload my drums to fund a worthwhile new purchase.

One more question. I frequently hear that Ludwigs, once the leader of the pack, at some point fell from grace. When was that? What happened?

[leftsideludwig]

"I'm more interested in buying another late 80s-early 90s Classic, or a Super Classic -- just with a 12,13,14, 20 configuration and standard lugs,"

... and how could I forget: WITHOUT power toms. Because those aren't tubs ... they're boats. And my god are they heavy!

[harryconway]

It's this exact "era" that Ludwig "fell from grace". Drummers hate change (so it seems). So the 6 ply shell got "not such a warm welcome". The 9 or 10 ply (I'm not sure which it is) shell that followed, even less welcome. The modular hardware. Built Ford tough. People hate it. Ludwigvondrumcrazy will hopefully see this thread and give us "the accurate info." He's got the catalogs to refer to. Way better reference guide than my foggy memory. In any event, the drums you want are some of the "most affordable" of the Luddies. And they're great drums. Be glad the collectors aren't after 'em, 'cause they'd just cost 3 times as much if they were.

[aydee]

If I had the money & wanted to go vintage, this is what I'd get:
18559

"Victory", 1944, Blue Lacquerland with maple lugs
(BD 26'' x 14'', Snare 14'' x 7'', Toms 11'' x 7'' - 15'' x 13'')

How much would these go for, LVDC, Harry? just curious..

[harryconway]

1944, no way, those are those Peavey Radial Bridge drums. Honestly, I have no idea what those would be worth. I've never seen a set like that. I guess they fall into the realm of "priceless" until someone actually splashes some cash on a set. Cool photo.

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Was the pyramid-type modular mount available in 1983?

Yes it was. The 1980 Ludwig Catalog / Brochure was pretty much devoted to the un-veiling of the new Modular System, which they referred to at the time as "The Set-Up."

LVDC

[latzanimal]

It's this exact "era" that Ludwig "fell from grace". Drummers hate change (so it seems). So the 6 ply shell got "not such a warm welcome". The 9 or 10 ply (I'm not sure which it is) shell that followed, even less welcome. The modular hardware. Built Ford tough. People hate it. Ludwigvondrumcrazy will hopefully see this thread and give us "the accurate info." He's got the catalogs to refer to. Way better reference guide than my foggy memory. In any event, the drums you want are some of the "most affordable" of the Luddies. And they're great drums. Be glad the collectors aren't after 'em, 'cause they'd just cost 3 times as much if they were.

Harry, I don't think is was so much the ply configuration as it was finish quality and a flood of cheap imports. Somewhere in the early 80's (I think) Ludwig started putting rivets in their wraps to keep them on. By the time the 9 or 10 ply shells were being made, DW, Pearl, Tama, Sonor, and Yamaha had flooded the market and media.

The Modular hardware was all part of the hardware wars of the time.

I have 3 sets of 6-ply shells that sound great.

leftside, when you're ready, I'll take your 22" kick and the rest...

The 4 ply "Super Classics" and 6 ply "Classic" shells were both considered top of the line options..

Also, I am told the new ply configuration is spot on for sound...

** All of this is subject to LVDC's verification and/or corrections....

[leftsideludwig]

The 4 ply "Super Classics" and 6 ply "Classic" shells were both considered top of the line options..

Also, I am told the new ply configuration is spot on for sound...

When you say new config is spot on for sound, do you mean the late 80s early 90s 4-ply or 6-ply in my kit, or Ludwig's current shells?

[harryconway]

Harry, I don't think is was so much the ply configuration as it was finish quality...

The Modular hardware was all part of the hardware wars of the time.

Well, of course, my observation is based upon what I saw in Los Angeles and the cats I was talking to. And I knew several guys who didn't like the 6 ply at all. Bought "other" brands because Ludwig had "let them down". This was between 76 and 80. I bought my Luddies new in 1980, buy they were Vistalite, so that was cool. Hardware however, for me, it was a toss up between Tama Titan and Rogers memriloc. Ludwig modular was just plain old ugly. I went with Tama, and 25+ years later, sold it all, for about what I paid for it. Rogers memriloc, about the same situation now, if you look on eBay. Held it's value well. Ludwig modular, on the other hand, people are giving it away. Still, Ludwig sold a zillion drums to marching bands all across the country, so what a bunch of wild haired rockers thought of their drums probably meant nothing to them. Selling drums is selling drums. Doesn't matter "to who" as long as their money's green. And finally, they came full circle and started reproducing the shell that started it all. The Legacy.


.

.

[latzanimal]

When you say new config is spot on for sound, do you mean the late 80s early 90s 4-ply or 6-ply in my kit, or Ludwig's current shells?

I mean the current configuration as in what you'd get if ordered brand spankin new..

Well, of course, my observation is based upon what I saw in Los Angeles and the cats I was talking to. And I knew several guys who didn't like the 6 ply at all. Bought "other" brands because Ludwig had "let them down". This was between 76 and 80. I bought my Luddies new in 1980, buy they were Vistalite, so that was cool. Hardware however, for me, it was a toss up between Tama Titan and Rogers memriloc. Ludwig modular was just plain old ugly. I went with Tama, and 25+ years later, sold it all, for about what I paid for it. Rogers memriloc, about the same situation now, if you look on eBay. Held it's value well. Ludwig modular, on the other hand, people are giving it away. Still, Ludwig sold a zillion drums to marching bands all across the country, so what a bunch of wild haired rockers thought of their drums probably meant nothing to them. Selling drums is selling drums. Doesn't matter "to who" as long as their money's green. And finally, they came full circle and started reproducing the shell that started it all. The Legacy.
.

I am sure there are several reasons people quit buying Ludwigs. Perhaps Ludwig did let them down, but look at all of the other companies at that time. The thicker shell was in or coming into "vogue". All of the Japanese (Tama, Pearl, Yamaha) companies were starting to make a presence here in the states. I think media hype had a lot to do with it, just as it does now. I also think that everyone had a Ludwig and drummers like to be different, so they went and bought something nobody else had. In my area, a local dealer went Tama (as they stormed the US) and everyone bought a Tama from him because it wasn't Ludwig. Perhaps Ludwig slowed, slacked off or even quit advertising all together thinking "we are the biggest name on drums".

I don't dispute your observation Harry, just think there are more than reason(s) for the changing of the guard.......

[Skitch]

I've seen an ad for a Ludwig kit that has the black & white badges.
It's apparantly from the 1980's. From the pics i saw, it looks to be in really good condition.
Looks to have a 12/13/16 combo, plus chrome snare.
It's going for $400.
Would this be the "Rocker" series?
Just caught me eye as a possible practice kit.
Cheers
Phil

As others have replied, the black and white badge IDs this as a Rocker series kit which would be fine for either practice of gigging.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[leftsideludwig]

leftside, when you're ready, I'll take your 22" kick and the rest...

The 4 ply "Super Classics" and 6 ply "Classic" shells were both considered top of the line options..


Latzanimal -- In case you were serious, the exact kit I have (color, lugs, everything) is on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ludwig-Drums-Maple-Classic-Drumset-Drum-Set-Kit-Drums_W0QQitemZ250249619443QQihZ015QQcategoryZ3809 7QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

They're not mine, by the way. If those are what you want, I hope it works out.

[Bart Hodge]

When Selmer bought Ludwig in 1981, most people felt it was the death of Ludwig making quality drums - and not the Japanese invasion.

[Skitch]

There were quite a few colossal screw-ups in the eighties by drum companies in the US. I posted a thread about what the Gretsch drum company did to Neil Peart when he called, wanting to be an endorser. Having Neil as their endorser in the late 1980s would have saved the Gretsch drum company quite a bit of pain and probably placed them at the top of the heap with Yamaha. Instead, Gretsch chose the hard route. There is probably a thread some where about Rogers.

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Well, of course, my observation is based upon what I saw in Los Angeles and the cats I was talking to. And I knew several guys who didn't like the 6 ply at all. Bought "other" brands because Ludwig had "let them down". This was between 76 and 80. I bought my Luddies new in 1980, buy they were Vistalite, so that was cool. Hardware however, for me, it was a toss up between Tama Titan and Rogers memriloc. Ludwig modular was just plain old ugly. I went with Tama, and 25+ years later, sold it all, for about what I paid for it. Rogers memriloc, about the same situation now, if you look on eBay. Held it's value well. Ludwig modular, on the other hand, people are giving it away. Still, Ludwig sold a zillion drums to marching bands all across the country, so what a bunch of wild haired rockers thought of their drums probably meant nothing to them. Selling drums is selling drums. Doesn't matter "to who" as long as their money's green. And finally, they came full circle and started reproducing the shell that started it all. The Legacy.


.

.

I had the Hercules stands with my Ludwig kit - they were great! And then Ludwig went with the modular line.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Bart Hodge]

Same here. All Hercules straight stands - didn't like the boom stands. I still have one of them. The only downer to those stands were that the plastic knobs would crack in half.

I had the Hercules stands with my Ludwig kit - they were great! And then Ludwig went with the modular line.

[Skitch]

Same here. All Hercules straight stands - didn't like the boom stands. I still have one of them. The only downer to those stands were that the plastic knobs would crack in half.

You can buy those at the hardware store!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw

[Dr.Hook]

Skitch, could you please give me the link for that Gretsch/Neil peart thread you posted. I can't find it......

[Elvis]

leftsideludwig,

Both the Super Classic and the Classic were considered "top end" for Ludwig all during their existance.
Only the Standard's, Rockers, S/L's and (now) Accent drums are anything below that.

Your 6 ply drums existed from about '76 or '78 until '98. This is the "Classic" shell.
Originally, layup was two 3-ply shells - M/P/M/M/P/M.
At some point, one of the Maple plies was replaced by a poplar one, making matierial cost a little cheaper. Oddly enough, AFAIK, the shell's thickness did not change (9.5mm or 3/8").
The Super Classic name goes back to the 50's and WFL, IIRC (some Ludwig marching geaer in the 60's was Super Classic too)
The Super Classic we're dealiing with here, though, started life in '88 or '89 with the non-reinforced 4 ply shell.
Some people refer to the reinforced 3 and 4 ply shells from the 70's as "Super Classic" but I've never seen any litirture to actually back that up.
I think most just affiliate the thinner / fewer plied shells with the SC moniker (maybe its easier that way, I don't know).
To make matter even more confusing, there was a 5-ply Super Classic shell. This shell started life around '96 (again, IIRC) as the "Vintage" shell. When the 4 ply was dropped in '97, the 5-ply took over as the Super Classic.

Thicknesses go like this (top end only):
6-ply = 3/8" (9.5mm)
re 4-ply = 1/4" (6.35mm)
3-ply = 3/16" (4.76mm)
4-ply SC = 5/16" (8mm)
5-ply SC = 15/64" + (6.1mm - NOTE: actually, I've only ever seen the thickness listed metrically. Inches measurement approximate and by conversion)

All of the above drums used the Maple / Poplar / Maple layup, except pre 1968 3-ply, which would've been Mahogany / Poplar / Maple layup (that's the real Mahogany kids, not that stuff from the Phillipines).

The M/PM layup continued until approximately the spring of 1998, when production ceased, in lieu of the 100% Maple layup featured on the then brand-new "Classic Maple" series, which was a 9-ply shell, 6mm thick.
The old M/P/M shells contnued to be sold, either by special order, or other means, until the end of 1998, when remaining supplies ran out.

Last year, Ludwig reintroduced the 3-ply M/P/M composite shell with the advent of the "LEGACY" series.

I wish them well on their newest venture.




Elvis

[Elvis]

If I had the money & wanted to go vintage, this is what I'd get:
18559

"Victory", 1944, Blue Lacquerland with maple lugs
(BD 26'' x 14'', Snare 14'' x 7'', Toms 11'' x 7'' - 15'' x 13'')

How much would these go for, LVDC, Harry? just curious.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1944, no way, those are those Peavey Radial Bridge drums.
Aydee,

Unless someone made those recently, don't believe Harry.
From the pic, they appear to be the real deal and in that kind of shape, would command a high price from a collector.
BTW, the lugs should be either Rosewood or Cherry. Maple is too soft to stand up to the task a drum lug is designed for.
Wood lugs were used during WWII due to all metals being diverted to manufacture of military items for the war effort.



Elvis

[leftsideludwig]

Elvis -- thanks for the info. I've spent a lot of time in the past 7 months learning about my particular kit, and ludwigs in general, bit you filled in a couple of details that I haven't come across.

Is there any chance you could also educate me on late 80s/early90s Classic lacquer finishes?

I just bought an early-90s Ludwig Classic (6-ply) maple (10/14/20), that doesn't have a wrap, or the Shadow finish, but rather a blue lacquer finish, with a subtle, metallic sparkle in the finish.

The lacquer finish is flawless through and through, but for the life of me, I can't find any reference to this finish in that time period. I'm particularly interested because I'm trying to track down a 10x12 tom with a modular mount from that model period, but don't know the name of the color.

[Elvis]

leftsideludwig,

The following pictures are from the Vintage Drum Guide's website.

From the 1988 Ludwig catalogue...
http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/finishes/ludwig/1988_finishes.jpg


From the 1994 Ludwig catalogue...
http://www.vintagedrumguide.com/images/ludwig_snaredrums/1994_LUDWIG_SNARES5.jpg

...anything look familiar?

The '94 catalogue pic is from the snare drum section, so the rest of the drums may have had some different offerings.
Otherwise, sorry, I can't help you.
There is a forum there and they may be able to help you, or you could ask LudwigVonDrumcrazy.
He seems better informed than I.

BTW, your hardware is officially known as "Modular" or "Mach" hardware.





Elvis

[harryconway]

Aydee,

Unless someone made those recently, don't believe Harry.
From the pic, they appear to be the real deal and in that kind of shape, would command a high price from a collector.
BTW, the lugs should be either Rosewood or Cherry. Maple is too soft to stand up to the task a drum lug is designed for.
Wood lugs were used during WWII due to all metals being diverted to manufacture of military items for the war effort.



Elvis
Use the whole quote please.....first part) "1944, no way, those are those Peavey Radial Bridge drums". (joking there, for crying out loud)....2nd part) "Honestly, I have no idea what those would be worth. I've never seen a set like that. I guess they fall into the realm of "priceless" until someone actually splashes some cash on a set. Cool photo." Thank you.

[Elvis]

Harry,

I would've except my reply was addressing that part of the quote and I wanted to make that clear.
Personally, I had no idea he was kidding. Sounded serious to me (seen it too many times before).
This means the person being addressed could've taken it that way as well. Seeing how there was no reply, it could not be determined as to whether they understood it as a joke or not.

...this is where emotocons come in handy. Maybe if there was a smiley face or a laughing face after "Peavy Radial Bridge", the humorous manner of the reply would've been better understood.


My apologies if my reply to that remark upset anyone. I was only trying to clarify.




Elvis

[Elvis]

This thread should be a sticky.
WAY too much good information here to let go.
I've linked this thread at a number of different boards lately.
Seems a lot of questions coming up concerning the older "budget" Ludwig stuff.



Elvis