Tony Williams Drum Clinic (1hour)

[meandhimcallitus]

Here is a sweet little vid posted in HOD forums and thought you guys would enjoy
:)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1981490425585781179&hl=en

[Drummer Karl]

That is...WOOOW!!! Like a present from heaven, thanks for that, I really enjoy it!

Also now I know that Tony was one of the most sympathic drummers I`ve ever seen! When I first heard his voice I was so impressed because when he played he always seemed like a very serious man...but now I know that he is actually a very humourous man! A very young voice, great person...man and his playing is more than just awesome!

RIP Tony. What a drummer.

Karl

[fourstringdrums]

I'm only into 3 minutes of it, but wow...

[syoshii]

I got this video last year on P2P and I was stunned by his awesome technique. Also I was very impressed by his words...full of wisdom and humor. I would say all serious drummers should hear it.

[fourstringdrums]

I got this video last year on P2P and I was stunned by his awesome technique. Also I was very impressed by his words...full of wisdom and humor. I would say all serious drummers should hear it.

Even not so serious drummers should hear it, then maybe they'd be more serious as a result of it :)

[Wavelength]

What I like about Tony is that he had pretty unique, strong and clear opinions on things. For example, the melodic tuning of the toms and snare, the muscle-all-the-way-technique etc... It just goes to show that you can do things differently, even in a downright unorthodox manner, and still be very successful. Even though I disagree on some things -- namely the hand technique -- I can't help respecting him as a player and as a person. A great video!

[caprisun3484]

WOW!!

that's really all i can say

[SickRick]

Best drummer that ever walked the surface of this planet. Without a doubt. He is my alltime favourite and will always be. Because of that I think it's really funny that in one of the keypoints (hand technique) I totally disagree with him.

Maybe I'll have to switch.

Everything he says makes sense and is valuable. Fantastic vid, thanks for posting.

[meandhimcallitus]

^Yes very true! Tony did have some VERY strong views about hand technique that I don't neccessarily agree with, but it does seem to shed an interesting light on a "different" view of hand technique which I find intriguing.

[spw]

I too was surprised at what he said about hand technique. And watching him play, you can clearly see that when he really added some speed, he switched to fingers (left hand trad grip).

So i am assuming that what he said had a certain context to it, and if he were to explain further would have clarified his meaning.

[Pocketman]

Thanks for that. It's great that we have things like that video to document his genius (Of course in addition to his music). Tony is one of the most important drummers of all time and this video just enforces that. I like the fact that he had definite opions about things. He makes me want to try and learn traditional grip (Again!)

I think he had a reputation of being difficult so it was nice to see him in an affable mood. I love his playing so much.

BTW...notice Vinnie Colauita watching from the side!

[intooder]

BTW...notice Vinnie Colauita watching from the side!
Noticed that as well @ 43:14, but wasn't sure it was him.

Great video by the way.

[Jookbox]

oh wow, thanks for posting this.

[foursticks]

That double stroke roll he did at the begining was the cleanest roll I've ever heard. He has some great philosophies especially about combine feel, technique and creativity all into one. Man, the drumming world truly lost a treasure when Tony passed on...

Thanks alot for posting this.

[SickRick]

That double stroke roll he did at the begining was the cleanest roll I've ever heard. He has some great philosophies especially about combine feel, technique and creativity all into one. Man, the drumming world truly lost a treasure when Tony passed on...

Thanks alot for posting this.

It wasn't just double strokes. He was switching in between singles, doubles and paradiddles. Insane.

[NUTHA JASON]

Yes and if you close your eyes its all even. a master of drums.

interesting that he is so against bounce. his toms are quite tight (high) which would produce good bounce even on his floors. maybe he does utilize bounce but not in the more obvious way that others do.

also using brushes on a dotted head is hard because they catch the dot...unless his dot is underneath the skin. just had a look i think it is.
j

[jonescrusher]

The way he's tuned the toms so musically is lovely. His hands are simply a joy to behold.

He's such a Vinnie copier...

[fourstringdrums]

Yes and if you close your eyes its all even. a master of drums.

interesting that he is so against bounce. his toms are quite tight (high) which would produce good bounce even on his floors. maybe he does utilize bounce but not in the more obvious way that others do.

also using brushes on a dotted head is hard because they catch the dot...unless his dot is underneath the skin. just had a look i think it is.
j

As far as I know those are Remo CS Dot, and they're on top.

His view on brushes is interesting in that he only uses them on the snare, with the snares turned off, and he doesn't use them on the cymbals.

[fazzybOO`]

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

[Wavelength]

Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression.

Gee whiz, and I thought that rhythmic phrasing, use of dynamics and musical themes are a big part of musical expression. Obviously I should've known better...

[Latin Groover]

He's just hitting the drums like a random assault.
Random? I think you have alot to learn.

He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression
He may have good technique...but you're not sure? Bit unnecessary when you don't know much about technique. What do think is 'musical' then. Can you please post a video? Imbecile?...I'll just leave that.

[tomgrosset]

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

That was a pretty stupid thing to say. He isn't just hitting the drums, he's playing them in a very melodic manner and he's achieving this with some incredible technique. If you listen closely to his playing, it's very warm and powerful, sensitive and overflowing with emotion.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. You even said in your other post that you've been playing for less than a year.

[NUTHA JASON]

that's the thing. i showed my sister the solo played by eloy casegrande. she has seen me do solos many many times. watching the clip i said that i wish i could play like that. she said that she thought i could. she was genuinely surprised that i felt the eloy was THAT much better at soloing than i. non drummers just hear rumble. the more you know the more you learn to hear. i think fazzybOO` has a lot to learn. he/she needs things to be garish and obvious to spot things. subtly is lost.

i like the fact that tony makes you wait before he adds just one more drum to the solo. its all snare until you are sitting on the edge of your seat before he brings in one tom and then he just is happy to stay on those two drums until you are mentally begging him to play the next tom so that when he does there is relief. on the untrained ear subtlty in sound is lost as well as the macro world of the arrangement - the structure of the solo.

time should heal that.

j

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

...And so the art of listening is lost to another person.

[Latin Groover]

...And so the art of listening is lost to another person.

Man how do you that. You say in one sentence what people try to say in a paragraph. I salute you Duncan!

[NUTHA JASON]

Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?p=287930#post287930)
...And so the art of listening is lost to another person.


or hopefully about to be found when next they log on.

j

[jazzin']

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

He was talking in the 30th minute. Actually he was talking for most of it....did you actually watch more than the first 4 minutes?

[jonescrusher]

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

Wow. Just look at the man's hand technique. Look at how he grips the sticks. His left hand is perfection.
However, I can understand how this kind of soloing could be lost on a beginner; genius can sometimes verge on the esoteric.

[fourstringdrums]

Even though it's hard, I will just chalk Fazzy's comments up to his being inexperienced and just not understanding yet. I remember making comments about Max Roach a while back about how I didn't get what he was doing and I was bored to tears. It took me a while to understand what he was conveying in his playing. Jazz isn't an easily understood style of music. You have to learn to feel what's going on as well as listen to it and it takes some time.

But I am pretty surprised at his comments regardless because while I think that Max's playing might be alittle less clear for some, atleast in the video I initially commented on, I think what Tony did in this video is pretty well understood. It's all about the melody. I don't understand how someone could not hear the melody in what he was doing with the toms and the emotion and suspense he puts into it as he makes you wait for a new tom to be added. I remembered sitting there staring at the last floor tom, anxiously waiting for him to add it.

I'll say the only negative about this video is that I wish he had played alittle bit more. Especially when he talked about ride cymbal technique and his views on double stroke rolls and hand technique, I wish he had played some examples to solidify it.

[syoshii]

i like the fact that tony makes you wait before he adds just one more drum to the solo. its all snare until you are sitting on the edge of your seat before he brings in one tom and then he just is happy to stay on those two drums until you are mentally begging him to play the next tom so that when he does there is relief. on the untrained ear subtlty in sound is lost as well as the macro world of the arrangement - the structure of the solo.

Yeah I loved that, too! And that was a great example of coordination. True genius.

Well, I guess probably I couldn't understand what he was doing at all just like fazzybOO` if I watched it 15 years ago.

[caprisun3484]

I watched about 4 minutes of it and got bored to death. He's just hitting the drums like a random assault. He may have good technique, I don't really know, but how can anyone get anything out of this? Musically, it has absolutely nothing, he's just hitting his drums like an imbecile, which absolutely no musical expression. And I don't know how you can learn anything from that... He's just banging away happily - I skipped to like the 30th minute and he's still banging away. What a waste of an hour...

Tony Williams is amazing
if you actually pay attention to what he's doing you'll probably see like the first 5 pages of stick control in like 3 minutes

and i agree it would've been really cool if he would have given some examples of what he was talking about

[lstardrums]

Tony Williams is amazing
if you actually pay attention to what he's doing you'll probably see like the first 5 pages of stick control in like 3 minutes

and i agree it would've been really cool if he would have given some examples of what he was talking about

hahaha, i think im gonna try that, making the first couple pages of stick control into a solo. that could be interesting.

[Auger]

that's the thing. i showed my sister the solo played by eloy casegrande. she has seen me do solos many many times. watching the clip i said that i wish i could play like that. she said that she thought i could. she was genuinely surprised that i felt the eloy was THAT much better at soloing than i. non drummers just hear rumble. the more you know the more you learn to hear.

j

...at least in terms of drumming technique. You know, in my opinion, this is why drummers are generally the worst people to ask 'who's a good drummer?' Drummers usually (though not always) have the exact opposite blindness -they can't see past the technical details and craftsmanship to the art. When I get compliments after playing, the ones from fellow drummers usually mean the least to me -which is not to say I don't appreciate the good natured thought of someone giving me a compliment or the idea of fraternity among drummers. But, the compliments from non drummers ...especially non musicians mean a lot more. To get a compliment on my drumming from a non-musician always meant the most to me ...and that was also by far the rarest compliment to get. That was when I knew I was communicating and making art that people understood. A compliment from a drummer was always "wow, that roll was so clean" or "your fills are really musical" ...basically "drum part x was so well concieved and executed!" whereas non musicians said stuff like "thank you. Your playing really spoke to me."

I watched some of the tony vid and will hopefully have the time to watch the rest later. I agree, Tony's a genius. But I don't think the specifics of his technique had anything to do with it. To me, it's the attitude ...it's how when he played, I don't just hear drums, I hear tony and his attitude. I think his technique was merely a symptom of his genius, which was more about putting attitude, confidence, and ego(in a good way) across in his playing. I think Tony probably would have developed an extremely high level of technique regardless because of his personality, but I think the exact method he used to get that technique (the rear-finger grip/all muscle approach) was arbitrary. I think that, all else being equal, tony would have been tony no matter what technical approach he had decided to master. Conversely, that also means that mastering all of those techniques he used will put any of us absolutely no closer to playing like he did.

[caprisun3484]

Auger that's a really good point
when you can really hear a drummer sort of expressing themselves it's pretty cool because i think it's kinda rare especially in rock music(jazz i guess it's a little more common). But that's one thing i like about Tony i can always tell if it's Tony Williams playing on whatever song because he has a distinct style and he's amazingly good at playing to the music but still having interesting drum parts. Another drummer who is also like the is Manu Katche, he isn't really a chops guy but he's got great musicanship and his parts are pretty cool too...not Tony Williams cool... but still cool

[syoshii]

...at least in terms of drumming technique. You know, in my opinion, this is why drummers are generally the worst people to ask 'who's a good drummer?' Drummers usually (though not always) have the exact opposite blindness -they can't see past the technical details and craftsmanship to the art. When I get compliments after playing, the ones from fellow drummers usually mean the least to me -which is not to say I don't appreciate the good natured thought of someone giving me a compliment or the idea of fraternity among drummers. But, the compliments from non drummers ...especially non musicians mean a lot more. To get a compliment on my drumming from a non-musician always meant the most to me ...and that was also by far the rarest compliment to get. That was when I knew I was communicating and making art that people understood. A compliment from a drummer was always "wow, that roll was so clean" or "your fills are really musical" ...basically "drum part x was so well concieved and executed!" whereas non musicians said stuff like "thank you. Your playing really spoke to me."

I watched some of the tony vid and will hopefully have the time to watch the rest later. I agree, Tony's a genius. But I don't think the specifics of his technique had anything to do with it. To me, it's the attitude ...it's how when he played, I don't just hear drums, I hear tony and his attitude. I think his technique was merely a symptom of his genius, which was more about putting attitude, confidence, and ego(in a good way) across in his playing. I think Tony probably would have developed an extremely high level of technique regardless because of his personality, but I think the exact method he used to get that technique (the rear-finger grip/all muscle approach) was arbitrary. I think that, all else being equal, tony would have been tony no matter what technical approach he had decided to master. Conversely, that also means that mastering all of those techniques he used will put any of us absolutely no closer to playing like he did.

I agree with you, Auger...what I wrote at Dave Weckl thread yesterday was based on similar point of view.

[Raymond Bloom]

Tony Williams is pure genious, every stroke he does is music, his approach is truly unique.

Even though I can't agree with some of his ideas and concepts, the first being his hand technique, but it worked perfectly for him

another thing is what he says about brush playing - not hitting cymbals and toms, but then again his brush playing is so, so, SO GOOD!!



there's just one thing I don't like... Remo Power Dots...

[Pocketman]

"If you think you're more important than the drums then you've got another thing coming."

-Tony Williams

[Jeff Almeyda]

I too was surprised at what he said about hand technique. And watching him play, you can clearly see that when he really added some speed, he switched to fingers (left hand trad grip).

So i am assuming that what he said had a certain context to it, and if he were to explain further would have clarified his meaning.

My coach, Dom Famularo, was close to Tony. He did maybe dozens of clinics with him back in the day. Dom said that Tony would always explain things incorrectly. Tony used to ask Dom to explain what he was doing so that he (Tony) could explain it to the audience.

Dom said that Tony was the perfect example of pure genius. He just did what he did, he couldn't really explain it to us mere mortals. The rules (like hand technique) didn't apply to him. He transcended them.

Oh and faggyboo (or whatever you name is). If you would have said that in front of me and my boys you would have been laughed out of the room if not smacked upside the head. The inexperiened need to know when to shut up and listen. The music is there. YOU just can't hear it.

[Drad-dog]

...I think that, all else being equal, tony would have been tony no matter what technical approach he had decided to master. Conversely, that also means that mastering all of those techniques he used will put any of us absolutely no closer to playing like he did.

That's the best thing I've read on DW in a long time.

[fourstringdrums]

This thread needs to be bumped. I'm in a Tony kind of mood tonight. Some of our newer members should see this.

[Jazz]

Awesome!!!! This is gold! Great stuff!!!

I'll say that I agree with his hand technique. It echoes a lot of what I've been taught rudimental/marching style.
edit: He later talks about learning both traditional and matched grips, which I think is a great idea. They just feel different, and you think differently...

31:10 I'm sure most of us have had that experience. You record yourself the first time and realize that you don't sound like you thought you did (you thought you sounded good, but you really sounded like poo)

[fourstringdrums]

Awesome!!!! This is gold! Great stuff!!!

I'll say that I agree with his hand technique. It echoes a lot of what I've been taught rudimental/marching style.
edit: He later talks about learning both traditional and matched grips, which I think is a great idea. They just feel different, and you think differently...

31:10 I'm sure most of us have had that experience. You record yourself the first time and realize that you don't sound like you thought you did (you thought you sounded good, but you really sounded like poo)

I'm still a bit unsure about what he was talking about hand technique wise. Was he saying that he doesn't use fingers and doesn't rely on bounce at all, that everything comes from his hands?

[Jazz]

The rudimental technique that I was taught is this:
Don't rely on bounce: you have to be able to control the stick- also, different sized/tuned drums bounce differently (try playing a double stroke roll on your leg)
Have all you fingers touching the stick- don't rely just on your front two fingers because you won't have any control. All fingers- the whole hand- controls the stick.


This doesn't mean you ply with a death grip or anything- everything should still be relaxed and comfortable, and you should still should have loose smooth strokes. I adjust my playing stlye when playing drumset rather than rudimental snare, but the main concepts are still there.

[Steamer]

I'm still a bit unsure about what he was talking about hand technique wise. Was he saying that he doesn't use fingers and doesn't rely on bounce at all, that everything comes from his hands?

Watch this masterclass in stick/wrist control carefully recorded just before Tony's untimely passing. Speaks volumes about his approach to technique as he mentioned in the hour long clinic from many years before. EVERTHING is controlled with the hands and wrist and of coarse fingers combined but NO finger type bouncing as he mentioned in the clinic. Amazing solo proving as i've told many of my fellow local drummers that Tony just kept getting better and more focused in his concept as he got older. Like listening to a fine symphonic percussion piece. Enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDgNKlLLm4Q&feature=related

P.S. Just watched this again myself. A humbling and inspiring performance all rolled into one and goes without saying a most musical display of fine drumming by this great master on tape preserved for all of us to enjoy and LEARN something from for many years to come.

[Steamer]

The rudimental technique that I was taught is this:
Don't rely on bounce: you have to be able to control the stick- also, different sized/tuned drums bounce differently (try playing a double stroke roll on your leg)
Have all you fingers touching the stick- don't rely just on your front two fingers because you won't have any control. All fingers- the whole hand- controls the stick.


This doesn't mean you ply with a death grip or anything- everything should still be relaxed and comfortable, and you should still should have loose smooth strokes. I adjust my playing stlye when playing drumset rather than rudimental snare, but the main concepts are still there.

I came from a early background of traditional old style Swiss Basel drumming as part of my studies so I know exacty what you speak about Jazz. Every stroke no matter how soft/loud or fast/slow combined with incredibly quick and difficult dynamic shifts particularly at high speed during patterns is controlled with the hand and wrist with fingers in conjunction with each hand grip in this very old traditional approach to snare drum playing. Tony's definitely had some of this going in his approach and concept. You can see and hear this when he's warming up with doubles at the beginning of the old clinic clip.

[tomgrosset]

I'm still a bit unsure about what he was talking about hand technique wise. Was he saying that he doesn't use fingers and doesn't rely on bounce at all, that everything comes from his hands?

Tony is gripping the stick with his pinky and ring finger and the middle and index finger are not gripped on to the stick. The thumb does most of the rebound work. He also uses a lot of wrist with his grip and he was able to pull this off at any tempo, because he's a machine. I even use my wrists at fast tempos. My fingers give the control and my wrists produce the stroke. If you see my WFD videos on my YouTube page, you'll know what I mean.

[Class A Drummer]

Wow what a coincidence. A few hours ago i was thinking to myself how i wanted to watch this video again, so i looked around the forum for a couple mins and couldnt find it, so i did a google video search and found it.
Great solos. I especially liked his brushes work over any of the other solos he did.

[fourstringdrums]

Tony is gripping the stick with his pinky and ring finger and the middle and index finger are not gripped on to the stick. The thumb does most of the rebound work. He also uses a lot of wrist with his grip and he was able to pull this off at any tempo, because he's a machine. I even use my wrists at fast tempos. My fingers give the control and my wrists produce the stroke. If you see my WFD videos on my YouTube page, you'll know what I mean.

Oh I wasn't aware of that. Did he use his index or middle fingers at all in providing the fulcrum or some finger control? If not, where is his fulcrum if the first two fingers aren't involved?

[Steamer]

Oh I wasn't aware of that. Did he use his index or middle fingers at all in providing the fulcrum or some finger control? If not, where is his fulcrum if the first two fingers aren't involved?

Watch the clip I recently posted carefully you can see precisely how he held the sticks in this matched grip masterpiece of musical drum playing.

[fourstringdrums]

Watch the clip I posted carefully you can see precisely how he held the sticks in this matched grip masterpiece of drum playing.

I've watched it a few times but it's still hard to see precisely what he is doing. I can see that he isn't really holding on with the first two fingers, but when he gets faster and is using fingers, I have a hard time seeing where his fulcrum is.

[Steamer]

I've watched it a few times but it's still hard to see precisely what he is doing. I can see that he isn't really holding on with the first two fingers, but when he gets faster and is using fingers, I have a hard time seeing where his fulcrum is.

Nope he's not using finger bouncing in the faster passages. All coming from the wrist and hand with fingers closed in on each stick on that clip.

[fourstringdrums]

Nope he's not using finger bouncing in the faster passages. All coming from the wrist and hand.

But for the times when he does use fingers for control, where is his fulcrum if the index and middle finger don't hold on to the stick?

[Steamer]

But for the times when he does use fingers for control, where is his fulcrum if the index and middle finger don't hold on to the stick?

Watching it carefully again without sound it would appear the flat of the thumb and second inner knuckle of first finger with the rest of the fingers including pinky drawn always in contact with the stick. You can also see that his hand is moving with each played beat to each stroke even in the blistering fluid motion sequences going from drum to drum in this clip. I believe he explains his fulcrum grip in detail in the question and answer part of the old clinic

[fourstringdrums]

Watching it carefully again without sound it would appear the flat of the thumb and second inner knuckle of first finger with the rest of the fingers including pinky drawn always in contact with the stick. You can also see that his wrist moves to each stroke even in the blistering fluid motion sequences going from drum to drum in this clip. I believe he explains his fulcrum grip in detail in the question and answer part of the old clinic

Ok that is what I thought. But in the clinic video where he starts off with doubles/paradiddles and what not, he seems to be using a combination of his wrist with any finger movement being supplied mainly by what looks like his ring and pinky finger (I'm talking about his right hand). Does that sound about right?

He does answer in the question and answer part but to me it was a little bit vague. I'll have to watch it again later.

[tomgrosset]

Yeah, Tony's grip is hard to understand. But it certainly sounds good!

That's what we all have to keep in mind. We should be paying more attention to the sound we are producing as opposed to worrying about what our fingers/wrists look like all the time.

[Steamer]

Ok that is what I thought. But in the clinic video where he starts off with doubles/paradiddles and what not, he seems to be using a combination of his wrist with any finger movement being supplied mainly by what looks like his ring and pinky finger (I'm talking about his right hand). Does that sound about right?

He does answer in the question and answer part but to me it was a little bit vague. I'll have to watch it again later.

I'd have to view it carefully again but yes sounds about right. The most important thing is the initial fulcrum between the flat of the thumb and second knuckle of the first finger and that fact that Tony REALLY made a point in the old clinic he does not advocate a finger bounce style approach into his personal playing technique. All else can be debated but that important point stands as a way of understanding his sound and how he got his sound to project.

[Michael G]

I respect Tony and all, but his playing just not for me. I could've fallen asleep.

[Steamer]

I respect Tony and all, but his playing just not for me. I could've fallen asleep.

Listening to Tony and falling asleep seems like quite a stretch of the imagination IMO but each to his own and I respect others to listen to whoever turns their crank. Certainly know fine exciting musical drumming at the hands of a true drum master when I hear it from MY perspective and musical concept for what it's worth.

[Michael G]

Listening to Tony and falling asleep seems like quite a stretch of the imagination IMO but each to his own and I respect others to listen to whoever turns their crank. Certainly know fine exciting musical drumming at the hands of a true drum master when I hear it from MY perspective and musical concept for what it's worth.

To be fair it is past midnight.

Anyway, you're missing a keyword in that last sentence so I am not quite sure what you mean. It looks like you are implying I am not knowledgeable in exciting musical drumming?

If so, please do explain.

[Steamer]

To be fair it is past midnight.

Anyway, you're missing a keyword in that last sentence so I am not quite sure what you mean. It looks like you are implying I am not knowledgeable in exciting musical drumming?

If so, please do explain.

Well I was not sure what in direct relation you are making reference too in this thread about Tony,his playing in general or something else in your comment. I guess i'm confused because i'm still buzzing off of watching the incredible display of dynamics and musical playing on the clip I posted tonight of someone with a masterful touch and very enjoyable melodic/harmonic ideas on the drumset IMO.

If you don't like Tony's playing that's cool with me sorry if it came off funny on my part. Each to his own...

[Michael G]

Well I was not sure what in direct relation you are making reference too in this thread about Tony his playing in general or something else in your comment. I guess i'm confused because i'm still buzzing off of watching the incredible display of dynamics and musical playing on the clip I posted tonight of someone with a masterful touch and very enjoyable melodic/harmonic ideas on the drumset IMO.

If you don't like Tony's playing that's cool with me sorry if it came off funny on my part.

Indeed

I am talking straight up about Tony's playing It is good, it is amazing, but I don't like listening to it. I don't disrespect it, I respect everything about Tony and acknowledge his importance.

however, it just doesn't float my boat. What does can be found under the "jazz pioneer" section.

[Steamer]

Indeed

I am talking straight up about Tony's playing It is good, it is amazing, but I don't like listening to it. I don't disrespect it, I respect everything about Tony and acknowledge his importance.

however, it just doesn't float my boat. What does can be found under the "jazz pioneer" section.

That's cool with me SmoothJazz. That's what makes the world an interesting place for all of us to live in as appreciators of all things jazz which cover alot of ground. If we all liked the same thing life would be pretty drab indeed. Peace.

[aydee]

Whoever posted this clip up, thanks! Fantastic to hear not only Tony's playing but him talking about his playing..

Stan, my Berklee grad teacher had suggested this grip, when I wanted to work on my Moeller. I had no idea where it was coming from. Now I know!

I am struggling with it and cant maintain it for long ( the sticks fly out off my hand, with my index finger that loose ). But on the few strokes that I got it right, I could really see what Tony was saying.

[Steamer]

Whoever posted this clip up, thanks! Fantastic to hear not only Tony's playing but him talking about his playing..

Stan, my Berklee grad teacher had suggested this grip, when I wanted to work on my Moeller. I had no idea where it was coming from. I am struggling with it and cant maintain it for long ( the sticks fly out off my hand,, with my index finger that loose ). But on the few strokes that I got it right, I could see what Tony was saying.


The flat of the thumb and the second knuckle of the first finger is the starting point of getting comforable and familar with this grip aydee and the key to "locking it in".

[aydee]

this picture is from Moeller's book, and this is what Tony's right hand looks like to me...

15399

[fourstringdrums]

Well today I did some practicing while adapting maybe not Tony's exact grip, but something a little different. In doing so I realized a few things about how I was playing before that while it was correct technique, wasn't working as good as it could be for me personally. Using double strokes as an example:

1. I tended to not involve my wrist/hand as much as I could, instead I relied on using fingers only to gain speed.

2. I tended to play with the front part of my hand, with most of my finger control coming from my middle finger only. The ring finger played a minor part, and while the pinky stayed in position, it didn't do much of anything.

3. When using fingers I had a tendency to not keep them as close as possible to the stick, thus causing me to lose speed and control because it was taking just a hair longer for my fingers to manipulate the stick. My finger motions also seemed to be exaggerated more than I realized.

So, taking what inspiration I could get from what Tony was doing I:

1. Started using my wrist/hand for most of my strokes. When you watch Tony play, even with fast singles, he seems to be all wrist.

2. When adding in fingers for more control I started playing more with the back of my hand, feeling the control more with my pinky and involving the ring finger even more. Now, my middle finger is still involved, but not all that much.

3. My fingers stay on the stick at all times (or as much as I can) and the movement is subtle in combination with my wrist movements.

4. This one is difficult to do, but I am trying to keep my index finger extended slightly vs. being wrapped around the stick. This frees up movement a bit and relaxes my hand.

So basically I realized that before, my hand had two different guys working at the company: The wrist, and the fingers, each having different roles. Now they both work together, with the wrist taking over more of the responsibility, and the fingers lending a very slight hand (pun intended) when needed.

*edit* I forgot...before I seemed to grib either at the first index knuckle or in between the first and second. Now I grip all the way back at the second.

[oops]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but no-one has any idea where this video has gone do they?

Can't find the drum clinic, or the video Steamer posted on page 2. Any ideas where we can find them again?

[Toby_Jackson]

This is all very interesting stuff. Seems I have more in common with Tony than I thought. I missed this when it was fresh as well, hope those vids are still alive somewhere.

To fourstring: I'm with you on your 4 points, wrist strokes with fingers helping slightly, loose index, and lots of awareness of the back of the grip, but I still grip at the first knuckle in my index and middle finger - gripping at the second always leads my thumb to tense up.

[criz p. critter]

Oh, damn! I just tried to view the video and it's not there anymore! I would really, really love to see this if someone knows an updated link.

[Steamer]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but no-one has any idea where this video has gone do they?

Can't find the drum clinic, or the video Steamer posted on page 2. Any ideas where we can find them again?

Copyright violations of this type of posted stuff is unforunately the norm. Enjoy them well they last is the best you can do.

This one still works. Unedited concert footage just shy of an hour of the Tony Williams Quintet from 1991:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7494448172579095735&hl

[zbdc]

ManI wanna see this video. Anyway, just from the comments, Tony's technique sounds a lot like marching technique, as others have alluded to. Watch any video of some drum corps, and I bet the technique is similar to what was on the video. Sounds like it's pretty finger based. But I'm just guessing. I think I would kill for this video, to hear Tony talk about some of this stuff? Man...

[Steamer]

ManI wanna see this video. Anyway, just from the comments, Tony's technique sounds a lot like marching technique, as others have alluded to. Watch any video of some drum corps, and I bet the technique is similar to what was on the video. Sounds like it's pretty finger based. But I'm just guessing. I think I would kill for this video, to hear Tony talk about some of this stuff? Man...

Not finger based at all. It was all about the hand and wrist first regarding Tony's approach. Tony's words not mine from the removed clinic footage.

[Geoff Tipps]

If the clinic is the one in dallas , zildjian days, you can find it in 7 prts on youtube.
check it out - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukZDtV3bgks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo8naPLcNEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ1l9rX6gj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uI28syNkDAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Fu2OyOrejY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MypbgJfelyo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnklTHdRuTg

[Funky Crêpe]

hey....are there any other links to this video??
because all of the ones i have tried have been removed!!
and reading these comments it sounds brilliant!!

[arhyth]

could anyone please upload it for us who haven't seen it? thanks in advance.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssse e!

ifile.it or mediafire or rapidshare or something.

[Funky Crêpe]

could anyone please upload it for us who haven't seen it? thanks in advance.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssse e!

ifile.it or mediafire or rapidshare or something.

dido!!!!!......would be greatly appreciated!

[bogo]

Will it be released some day. I saw it once and I really enjoyed it. If someone has a link...

[jeco]

Could someone send me the clinic? pls

[vtmathndrums]

Replying on here in case another link gets posted.

[RobertM]

Video not available. Here's what I get when I click the link:

"We're sorry, but this video may not be available.

If this video was recently uploaded, it may still be processing.
If this video is yours, you can check its status.

To see more videos visit our home page."