Counting 5/4 Time Sig's

[joeybeats]

I'm playing around with some beginner odd time grooves and could use some help with the 5/4. I read that it is good if you break the measure down to 3's and 2's, and I have done so. Two questions:

-- After you count the 12312/12312/ for a few measures or whatever it takes for you get comfortable with the five beats to a measure, do you then start counting 12345/12345?


-- How do you guys count the triplets in a 5/4 groove? Say a basic 5/4 like the Take Five groove, the snare hit is throwing me completely off as far as counting the triplet that follows it, as it comes in before the ride on 3. How do you guys count that?
Is it 1 - let - 2 - let - 3 - let - 4 - 5?

I think if I could this count this down, I will have an easier time figuring these 5/4's out. I can play them poorly by ear now (almost, anyway!) but can't count them as I read the sheet music! Thanks for your help. Joey

[Drummer Karl]

Mhhh, as for the counting: I like to believe that it is a personal thing. I like to count 1,2,3,4,5. So, not splitting it. With that way I feel just more comfortable...but also depends on the type of time sig.

...here is a very nice video of Derrick Pope for example, he talkes about Time signatures, physicality etc. It would be very useful I guess. It`s a great summary of what many people will tell you. E.G. I would also count a 13/8 in the splitted version (3-3-3-4), I mean counting to 13? That would be a bit difficult at very fast tempos.

http://www.derrickpope.net/oddtimes.mov (sorry, needs much time to load)

and about the triplets: Isn`t it always the same with counting triplets. Doesn`t matter whether you count it in a 4/4, 3/4, 7/4 etc.....??? The only different would be that you get another "shifting" over the measures...the value (quarter notes) in one measure is the same anyway.

just my point of view...

Karl

[Wile E. Coyote]

-- How do you guys count the triplets in a 5/4 groove? Say a basic 5/4 like the Take Five groove, the snare hit is throwing me completely off as far as counting the triplet that follows it, as it comes in before the ride on 3. How do you guys count that?
Is it 1 - let - 2 - let - 3 - let - 4 - 5?


I guess yo're asking about the swinging ride pattern, right? If so, I'd rather play something like:
1 tri plet 2 tri plet 3 tri plet 4 tri plet 5 tri plet
bold=played
underlined=accent
This way you have a pretty cool bar internal division. Anyway, I'd try to avoid playing swing or shouffle patterns in that song...

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Just count either 3 plus 2, or 2 plus 3. Then all the jazz patterns give themselves. As for Take 5, the band clearly plays 3 plus 2, so for that song, that is the basic subdivision. You can change it for effect, but just use that as your starting point. DPS

[joeybeats]

Thanks for the help guys.

K - Yes, of course you are correct, a triplet is counted the same way in 4/4 or 5/4 ... I didn't ask the question correctly and I'm too new to ask it in a way that gets what I'm trying to ask across. Thanks anyway, I'll get back to you when I figure it out!. Derrick's server must be slammed as I can't get it right now, I'll check back later, but thanks for the link.

W - Yes, it is the ride that is causing the confusion I suppose, but I'm so bad it could be anything. The snare hit comes in on the "let" of the previous beat, and I can't seem to get the ride hit to follow it right up. I'm way too slow and thought counting it would help. I'll set the click to trips and play along, starting at a slow tempo. I never considered not swinging the ride, maybe I need to go get a definition of what swing means. If you come back to this thread, fill me in. Does it mean not straight ahead on the actual click, but taking a bit of liberty?

Drumming is so frustrating on days like today. Hitting a wall at every move.
Joey

[djp132]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8lejCJM3f8

My odd time vid is also available here. Thanks Karl for spreading the word!

Derrick

[Shinx]

Great vid, Derek, thanks a lot

[Mcot2]

I play a 5/4 ride pattern 2 ways.

1 2T 3 4T 5 1 2T 3 4T 5 ect....

and

1 2T 3 4T 5 1T 2 3T 4 5T 1 2T 3 4T 5 ect...

Both ways are fine, the latter is a continuous pattern.

[joeybeats]

Success! Figured it out by breaking it down to a 5/4 with just the HH and BD ... played it for a while kinda (LOL) like Morello does under his solo. Doing that long enough, and humming the beat, gave me the coordination/independence to add the Ride and then the snare. Thanks again for the help. Derrick's video is fabulous. This place is great. Joey