Restoring 66 Ludwigs...

[Chicagoed]

Few years ago, my best friend of 35 years moved to Florida from our home town of Chicago. We played in bands together for most of that time. He left me two sets of drums. 80's vintage Tama Swingstars, which I still use, and a set of 66 Ludwig Hollywood, which he inherited from an uncle. The bass drum went through a basement flood before he got them, but they always sounded good anyway. What did we care ? They were Ludwigs !! Anyway....I have been wanting to restore them, and give them back to him. The toms are in good shape, but the bass drum has deteriorated beyond repair. Im looking for a 22" or 24" Ludwig bass of a similar vintage. Doesnt have to be exact, just pretty close. They are currently wrapped in Gold Sparkle, but I can rewrap a bass. I've checked on ebay and there are some possibilities, but I thought maybe some of you guys might have a bass drum you would be willing to sell (or donate !! :) ).

Thanks in advance,

Ed

[harryconway]

With Keller making vintage mahagony shells, you could strip all the hardware off your damaged drum, wrap the Keller shell in gold sparkle, mount your hardware and bam, complete set.

[Elvis]

Better yet, Keller states they do custom orders, so he could go for the MH/P/MA reinforced 3-ply shell, just like the one he's replacing.



Elvis

[fusssion]

Go with a 14x22 shell. Ludwig did not make a 24 in 1966.

[Chicagoed]

Thanks for the replies and the ideas. I think I will scour ebay for a bass drum. Like I said, it doesnt have to be 66...but something in that time frame. Would like to stay with the 3ply, re-ring stye. Hoping for something using the same type of tom mount. I know my buddy always wanted the 24" bass, but a 22 is just as cool. I cant wait to see the look on his face when he sees the set all done. He has been my best buddy for so long, and hasnt had an easy life. Pretty much gave up on drums while trying to kick the bottle. Now clean and sober for 5 years, I know he would love to have a set again, especially these. Not sure I will go with vintage hardware, as the newer stuff is so much better. He still has the Super sensitive that came with the set. Not sure it was original. It's gonna be a labor of love. Cant wait to get it together.

Thanks again.

Ed

[Elvis]

Check with Ludwig's website for hardware.
They've been repopping some of the 60's-70's stuff for a while now.
Curved BD spurs, BD mounted cymbal arm, etc.
You can even specify B&O badge on the new drums.

Im sure your buddy will be pleasantly surprised when he sees what you've done for him.
More of us should have friends like you.
Nice going.

BTW, the Super Sensitive came out around '67-'68. If you can verify the kit being made in '66, its not original.
If the SS uses a one-piece 20 strand snare, then it was made no earlier than '69 or '70. Before that, 12 strands (looks kinda like they came off a marching drum)


Elvis

[fusssion]

PICS PLEASE....

Pics of the badges and of the inside of the toms, the internal mufflers, everything! :)

[Chicagoed]

I will post some before pics.....gonna be tearing them down this weekend. As far as the snare...I guess its possible my buddy's uncle bought it seperately.....or that the drums were sold in 67....not sure. But will know more details on the weekend.

Thanks for the responses and suggestions.

Ed

[Chicagoed]

Started to take the toms apart. They are 67 vintage NOT 66. Date on the 12 and 13" toms is Feb 16, 1967. I gave the shells a quick clean, and the wraps look to be in great condition. And the hardware seems cleanable.The 13" must have had some moisture in it at some time, as the screw heads on the lugs are rusty. And the paint on the interior of the 13" is kinda flaky looking. I lost out on a 3ply bass drum from the early 70's on eBay that would have been compatible. The bass drum has had it.Lugs will be salvageable but the shell is wasted.

Its gonna be a fun project. Here are a couple pics.

[Elvis]

Chigagoed,

By rights, that kit should've come with a matching snare drum.
It's possible that your buddy's uncle could've ordered the SS when he got the kit, or opted for one that may have been for sale at that store, instead of the regular wood snare drum that would've already been included with that kit, at the time of the original sale. However, as far as "just ordering" a Hollywood kit, it should've come with a wood 14x5.
Something akin to, say, a Jazz Festival.

How old is the snare drum?
There should be a paper tag on the inside that denotes that.
Also, how many strands on the snare and are they individually adjustable?






Elvis

[Chicagoed]

My buddy has the snare with him. The rest he gave to me. As far as I know...I have never seen a matching drum with his kit. So...he must have upgraded, or like you said...just bought one with the set. But since 1973 when my buddy got these, it always had the chrome super sensitive. If I were to come across a matching snare or one I could re-wrap, that would certainly make the set even cooler. I dont even think I will have to buy any lugs, or hoops, since they all look like they will clean up pretty good.

I probably will have to replace the bass drum tom mount as its pretty rusty. All the ones I see on eBay look similar, but have the newer Ludwig script logo on them. The mounting base is stil in good shape.

Thanks for the information.....

Ed

[Elvis]

Ed,

Any tom mounting system with a 1" post will work in that base.
Ludwig currently uses the one sold through Gibraltar.
The arms are still 9.5mm (3/8"), but the serrations are more coarse these days, so they won't match up to the nuts inside the brackets of the kit you're restoring.
However, new nuts will fit inside of old brackets, so you could "modernize" the kit that way, if you like.
Anyway, since its the same as the Gibraltar, it will be less costly to get the "Gibraltar" unit, instead of the Ludwig one.
Same piece, different name.
Regular Tama mount also uses a 1" post, and is even cheaper than the Gibraltar unit (from what I've heard), but I don't know if the L-arms will work.
If not, all ball jointed L-arms can be swapped. All you need to do is order some 9.5mm ones from....Gibraltar.
I did something similar with my own Classic Maple kit when I replaced my Gibraltar / Ludwig mount with a Gretsch "left side" mount.


Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Elvis,

Thanks for the tip !! I have also seen many of the newer tom mounts (chrome and black with modern Ludwig logo) on ebay. I'm kinda assuming those are the same size as well. Not sure how I am gonna go with that. I also noticed last night, that one of the re-rings on the 13" tom is seperating slightly from the shell. I'm figuring I could glue and clamp this, then sand the edge a bit.

I found out yesterday, that my buddy is coming to Chicago in April, so now there is a time constraint. Oh the pressure !!! We are hoping to get some of the old guys together for a little jamming, and I would love to give him the set then and there. So... I'm hoping to find a bass shell so I can get goin on that. They wont be perfect, but I think they will look and sound pretty good. I'm a little concerned about the new wrap on the bass being way different that the toms. I've seen a few examples on-line, and they seem to be way different. Not sure if this is just an illusion or not.

Im going to need 2 16" rims, as the ones I have are too wasted to clean. Since you seem so knowledgeable on this, is there a specific style that would match the others pretty close, or are they pretty much generic?

This is starting to consume me....LOL....

thanks for the help !

Ed

[Elvis]

Chicagoed,

I may have an extra 16" rim that will work for you.
I'll look. You need an 8 lug, correct? (mine might be 6, if I even still have it).
The rims that came with that kit should be 1.2 - 1.6mm thick triple flanged hoops.
These are pretty much only found on generic kits anymore, although some people still tend to use them, as they feel it makes the drum sound more full (which was the point back then, or so they told us).
You can get triple flanged hoops just about anywhere.
Check out "Cannon" products. They're cheap and they'll work, although you might notice the new rims are a little thicker, as 2.0 - 2.3mm thick hoops are the norm these days.
I'll let you know about that rim tomorrow, as I'm not home right now.

As for the sound ring, a little Elmer's Wood Glue, a small C-clamp and maybe something shaped to the curvature of the shell (maybe you could cut a block of wood) are all you should need.
Becareful sanding off the excess dried glue. The woods drums are made from are soft and easily shapable (that's a word, right?). I found this out on a refurb project I'm currently doing (oops).
Use some fine grit sandpaper if you plan to go that route, maybe 400 grit or finer and sand gently, checking the progress every other stroke or so.
What might be a better idea is to take a popsicle stick (tongue depresser, whatever you wnat to call it) and spread the excess over the edge once you compress the ring.
It'll dry to a transparent finish and you won't run the risk of damaging the edge.
Don't clamp the shell too hard. Just a good "snugging" (enough to close the gap) should be all you need.

I don't know about the brackets you're referring to.
The one's I'm talking about came with my Classic Maple kit and are the same ones that are on your '73's, only the nuts have been changed, to accept the current tom arms.
You may be referring to something that comes with the Accent or the old Rocker lines, and those drums were made overseas with different hardware, so I can't vouch for how those will work.



Elvis

[Elvis]

I did something similar with my own Classic Maple kit when I replaced my Gibraltar / Ludwig mount with a Gretsch "left side" mount.

BTW, Chicagoed...

Thought this might interest you...I have a comparo pic showing the orignal tom mount my kit came with and the new Gretsch mount I now use, unfortunately that one's on my computer at home...so in the meantime, here's a pic I have at my website showing just the new mount.
The difference is that the arm on the original mount sits right on top of the post.
As you can see, this one is offset quite a bit (probably about 1.5 - 2"), and thus it pushed the tom over that much farther.
Makes it much nicer to play on.
Click on the pic to see the bigger version.

http://thumb1.webshots.net/s/thumb2/3/42/24/172034224GUHjmp_th.jpg (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/1172034224034804801GUHjmp)




Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Elvis,

The tom mount that was on here originally, looked real generic, stamped looking, and had a very small old stylle Ludiwg script stamped in it. The newer ones I have seen on eBay, look more cast, and have a newer style Ludwig script in the plate that holds the tom stems. I might go with something like that. I noticed too, that the T-rods, tension rods, and floor tom legs are very generic, so I will probably go with Gibraltar, or Cannon on those. I have a buddy who works at a chrome shop. He has done some motorcycle parts for me rather cheaply. I'm gonna ask him if he can do a handfull of small parts for me. Might be cheaper and quicker than trying to find stuff.http://cgi.ebay.com/Ludwig-Vistalite-Bass-Drum-Double-Tom-Mount-Holder_W0QQitemZ220084749118QQihZ012QQcategoryZ470 89QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Looks like I will need 2 16" hoops, since the non-missing one is too rusty. And I will take your advice and just get a generic one, as they look the same as the ones on my Chinese kit at home.

The whole thing is getting kind of expensive, but I'm too far into it to quit now !! LOL.. Besides...it's a good thing ! I may even have to give him back some of his old cymbals that I have been using to fill out the set ! Thats gonna hurt.

Thanks again,

Ed

[Elvis]

Ed,

Is the picture in the link the same one as on that Hollywood kit, or does yours look more like two rail mounts on one bar?

The picture in the link shows a Ludwig double tom mount that would've been the standard issue back when those drums were made.
I have seen the other style that I described, on 60's Ludwigs as well.

Once you hand that finished kit over to your friend, you'll see how much the effort and cost was really worth.


Good luck. Please, show us some pics when you get done with it.





Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Elvis

The pic in the link is a different tom mount that these drums have. The one I have is similar in design, but the middle yoke thing does not have the new style Ludwig script logo on it. It looks like a stamped piece of metal, with a very small old style Ludwig kinda stamped on it. I will upload a pic of it when I get a chance.

I will definitly upload lots of pics when done. Found 2 22" basses from the same era on eBay, so hopefully one of those will pan out, and I will be well on my way.

Thanks for your help and interest !

Ed

[Chicagoed]

Elvis....

Forgot to ask ya....who do you recommend for the recovering wrap? There are a lot of places online who sell wrap. How would I go about finding which ones are the best match for the factory gold sparkle wrap? I figure this might be tough, but I want to try to get as close as possible.

Ed

[Elvis]

Elvis....

Forgot to ask ya....who do you recommend for the recovering wrap? There are a lot of places online who sell wrap. How would I go about finding which ones are the best match for the factory gold sparkle wrap? I figure this might be tough, but I want to try to get as close as possible.

Ed
Unfortunately, the old sparkle wrap finishes are hard to match.
According to a friend, those sparkles were actually made from finely crushed glass and they all came from one supplier.
When that guy retired, he had no takers for his business and no one to pass it on to, so the supply dried up with his retirement.
Also, all wraps come from one maker, who is based in Italy.
What they do is cast large blocks of a plastic type material and either add in coloured dye or suspend "pieces" in it.
The blocks are then cut into many thin layers and these layers are further processed (a processs which I cannot remember what it entails at the moment) and those processed pieces are then cut into more managably sized sheets.
Its those cut sheets that are what's sent off to the various distributors (or the drum companies themselves).
Since the glass distributor's retirement, all sparkle finishes are now a metalflake finish and there's an obvious difference.
With the advent of the internet and the call from drummers worldwide, complaining about the non-availability to match older sparkle finishes, a new sparkle type finish has hit the market.
It's called "Glass Glitter" and is an attempt to recreate the look of the older sparkle finishes.

Sam Barnard has been specializing in public drum wrap sales for 22 years (according to his website).
Here's a couple of exaplmes I pulled off of Sam Barnard's website (www.jamminsam.com)

Gold Sparkle
http://www.jamminsam.com/images/goldsparklepc.jpg

Gold Glass Glitter
http://www.jamminsam.com/images/goldglasstom.jpg

NOTE: Another friend warned me about purchasing from Sam Barnard. Apparently they try to sell you some kind of adhesive tape along with a wrap purchase. He says the tape is crap and your best bet is to save your money and opt not to include the tape with the purchase.

You can also get wraps from a number of other companies, such as Precision Drum or Drummaker.
Some of the manufactures will also offer wraps.

Here are the current offerings from Ludwig's website
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/archive/gfx/finishes/large/SPARKL_v2.jpg

...the gold sparkle finish is the yellowish one between the red and blue drums (NOTE: I noticed a little of the colour faded as the new window came up after I clicked on the sparkle examples, so the gold appears more "goldish" than what's shown here).

Also, notice the drum the on the far left end.
That finish is known as "Chmapagne" and people often confuse Champagne with Gold, as the colours can come off similarly.
Compare and see what fits best.
Again, some fading has occurred, so Champagne is a little more "goldish" than what appears here.
I don't know if you can get the wrap straight from Ludwig, but if you decide to go that route, this is what they're offering.

Here's another idea - I don't know how well this will fly, but if you can get wraps from Ludwig, try taking an example of your finish over to your local dealer and see if their rep will pass that onto Ludwig, in an effort to best match the finish on your drums.



Elvis

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

BTW, the Super Sensitive came out around '67-'68.

It's not my intention to prove someone wrong, just prevent any confusion............

The following image is from the Ludwig No.'62 Catalog, which was released in late 1961.................................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13091042/233968504.jpg
Chicagoed, if you have any specific questions about the Hollywood Outfit or Hardware feel free to ask. I have the most, if not all, of the Ludwig Catalogs from the 1960's right up through the mid-1990's that I can use to illustrate what you may need to know. You know what "they" say, a picture is worth a thousand words........................

LVDC

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

For what it's worth here's the 1966-67 Catalog information on the Hollywood Outfit. Note that it came stock with the Supra-Phonic Snare................

The Tom Post pictured below was Ludwig's 2nd generation and was used from about 1964 or thereabouts to right around 1967 or 1968 when it was replaced by the "cast logo" style.............................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/233976616.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/233976663.jpg

Below is the "Cast Logo" Tom Post (3rd generation) they switched to but only used for a couple of years before going to the "Block Logo" stickered / decal version.................
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13511532/233976702.jpg

Here's the "Block Logo" stickered / decal version, which was their 4th generation Tom Post and one that they stuck with for many years......
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13511532/233976751.jpg

LVDC

[Chicagoed]

Thanks for the info. The pic of the whole set, shows the tom mount that is on mine. Cool pictures !

Id love to get a print of that catoalog page !!

Another cool thing...I stil have one of the Paiste 602 cymbals. I didnt know they came with the set !

Thanks a lot !!

Ed

[Chicagoed]

Thanks, Elvis and Ludwig for your replies.

I'm a little worried about finding the right wrap material. I've looked at the ones at Precision, and they seem more yellow than the orange tint that the originals have. Id really hate to have to re-wrap them all.....

Ed

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

You're more than welcome Ed..................................

Matching wrap can be problematic, even if you had a sheet of the exact same type used by Ludwig during the same time frame. Factors such as fade from sunlight, etc. may have changed the color on the wrap that you are trying to match, sometimes evenly, sometimes only on one side. A friend has a 1965 White Marine Pearl Superclassic Outfit with the top of the Bass yellowed while the bottom is still nice and vibrant..............................

My recommendation would be to contact an expert like, Jack Lawton, at www.lawtondrum.com (http://www.lawtondrum.com) or, Matt Sinyard, at www.bonzodrums.com (http://www.bonzodrums.com) and tell them what color you are trying to match to see where they get their wrap, they do this sort of thing on a regular basis so should have some good advice for you. For what it's worth, you will find the "correct" name for the wrap below cropped from the 1966-67 Ludwig Color Chart as many don't know that it was actually referred to as a "Pearl" finish.........................

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13274424/234074226.jpg

LVDC

[Chicagoed]

Ludwig !

Thanks for the information and the links. I'm going to call them tomorrow. The price to have them re-do the bass drum is huge. I am sure they do a great job, but I'm still hoping I could get a decent match on the wrap, and do it myself. I've been busy cleaning and polishing lots of peices of metal !! Carpal tunnel is a real thing !!!

So far so good. The lugs, hoops, collets all look great ( with the exception of one missing 16" hoop). Looks like I will only have to replace the bass drum spurs, and the floor tom legs. I have a new bass drum coming (bidding on two on eBay), but either one will have to be re-wrapped.

What do you think about painting the interiors? While they are in pretty good shape, the paint is not great. I'm not to worried about the original paint thing. I just want them to look like new, as these will be played. Just any old white paint?

One more thing....is there any way you could scan that photo from the catalog? Something I could print out?

Thanks again......

Ed

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

Ed, I sent you an email yesterday offering to send you the Hollywood info. on disc but the email "bounced," something that has been happening on this end lately. Everytime I check with the recipient they actually received it so I'm thinking it's a spam-type of thing but since you didn't get my message maybe it's something else. PM me with your address and I'll send it on disc, no charge. All of my catalogs are scanned in using a high resolution for good quailty prints and with my slow-speed dial up it would take forever to email the Hollywood page since it comes in between 10 & 11 meg's......................

I'll have to make a few calls on the paint issue to see what some friends generally use as my forte is "reconditioning" vintage drums & outfits, not "restoring" them. By that I mean I deal primarily with stripping them down and cleaning up the shells & hardware and putting them back together as opposed to the wrapping & painting aspect of getting a drum, or kit, back where it should be.........................
With that said, I would have no qualms about using any white paint designed for wood but have seen some re-painted shells that ended up having a bluish-white tint so I might consider a slightly "off-white" (leaning towards something like beige) paint that should end up having a somewhat "vintage" look when it dries. I might even take the small tom to a paint store, hardware, or Home Depot and see what they could do to match it. Just try to match how thick Ludwig applied it in the first place as close as possible since this has a lot to do with how a drum shell transfers it's sonic properties. As you may already know, if you go too thick it will act more as a "projector" as opposed to a "resonator" due to the wood's inability to absorb the vibrations. Buddy Rich had asked at least one of the Companies that he endorsed for to apply lot's of "extra" coats of lacquer to the drums he used to help in projection and from what I heard they did. This fact helped in identifying one of his old snares................

LVDC

[Elvis]

LVDC,

HOW DARE YOU!
WHY I OUGHT'A....

...ok, ok, just kidding. =)

Actually, thanks for posting that. I've never heard of an SS that existed before 1967.
I notice the ad talks about a 10 strand snare, and the later one-piece versions were 20 strand (standard snare adapted to the P-70), but I remember hearing about 12 strands snares on the older drums.
Was there a change from 10 to 12 strands at some point, before 1968?
Also, thanks for posting the ad for the Hollywood kit.
Maybe I was thinking of a Big Beat, insofar as the inclusion of a standard wood shelled snare drum with the kit.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ed,

To the best of my knowledge, most Ludwig drums either got a clearcoat shot on the interiors or white wood primer painted on.
I have seen a few, in the past, that used a solid glossy white paint, but most I've seen appear to have white wood primer painted on them.
Wood primer is more watery than paint and spreads on thinner, so you can actually see some of the wood grain showing through.
It works like an oil based stain, but is intended to help regular latex paint stick to the surface better.
After some years, wood primer will take on a powdery feel and look, too.



Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Elvis,

So...you think I should use a flat primer type white paint? The current interiors do not look glossy, but that could just be the age. I'm gonna go with Evans G2's batters with Evans G1's as resonants, so I want the interiors to look good.

Im trying to find out from my buddy's family whether he does indeed have the original snare, which upon further review...might indeed be a Supraphonic rather than a Super Sensitive. It's been so long since I have seen the actual drum. I dont wanna blow the surprise, so I'm not gonna ask him personally. Im getting real concerned about this rewrapping th bass drum thing. All the wraps I have seen using the online places are not really the same colorwise. I have a few emails out to Vintage drums places, hoping to get more info.

All the lugs and the rims are cleaned and polished, and they look great, with the exception of 5 lugs ( from the bottom of the bass). They will have to be replaced. Im stoked !! I think these will turn out great, pending the bass drum issue. I bought a shell off ebay...red sparkle, drilled the same, and it looks pretty good. $65 total. Hope its not a stinker.

Ed

[Elvis]

Chicagoed,


All I'm saying is of the kits I've seen that were painted white on the inside of the shells, most were primered.
An old term for wood primer was "white wash". I still hear about Ludwig's with "white washed" interiors from time to time.
The primer will be a sort of "semi-transparent". You should be able to make out some of the wood grain in some of the lighter spots.
If the interior was painted with regular paint, it would have a glossy solid look (like gloss exterior latex house paint does).

As for the wrap, yep...now you see the problem others have had in the past.
That's what the glass glitter thing was supposed to address, but the reality is, no one makes sparkle finishes like they used to.
Sorry to report, but its most likely that you're going to be doing a total re-wrap on that kit...UNLESS, you can find some "period" wrap that matches.

Glad the hardware issue worked out for you.
BTW, I've looked around here a couple of times and I cannot find the 16" hoop I was telling you about.
I guess it must've gone to someone else and I've forgotten in the meantime.
Sorry about that.


Elvis

[ludwigvondrumcrazy]

LVDC,

HOW DARE YOU!
WHY I OUGHT'A....

...ok, ok, just kidding. =)

Was there a change from 10 to 12 strands at some point, before 1968?

Hey Elvis, glad you took my post in the spirit it was intended........................

Actually, William F. Ludwig Sr. first offered a metal shell Super-Sensitive in 1924 but sold the rights and the tooling for the S.S., as well as the rights to the Ludwig name, to the Conn Co. around 1930. It wasn't until 1955 that he was able to buy back the rights to use his name again and, as part of the deal, got back the tooling / dies for the metal shell Super-Sensitive.........................

I'm not hip to all the in's & out's of the snare wire issue so will give you a little more Catalog information so you can form your own opinion...................

The first images are from Catalog No.'62 (1961.) The illustrations mentioned (not included here) show the wires with plastic snare plates (ends) but, as you will read, were also available with metal plates (ends.)
Ludwig used the term Fibre snare / end plates when describing what we would call "plastic snare / end plates."
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13091042/234581623.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13091042/234580325.jpg

The next image is from Catalog No.'64 (1963.)
The information in this Catalog for their regular snares wires was essentially the same as above.
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13091042/234580395.jpg

And last but not least, here's the Super-Sensitive desc. from Catalog No.'67 (1966) that lists the wires available for this drum.
I found it interesting that this Catalog (No.'67) didn't show their snare wires like they did in previous years..........
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL770/2917504/13091042/234580483.jpg


LVDC

[Elvis]

Thanks LVDC.
Maybe I'm thinking of 18 strands instead of 12.
FWIW, my 13x3 tube lugged Classic Maple piccolo came from the factory with the same "snappi-snare" wires as listed in the 1961 catalogue (and that could be where the confusion lies).
Makes for a nice sound, but I'm looking at switching to Pure Sound "Super 30" (I'm looking for a little more sensitivity).


Elvis

[Chicagoed]

OK.....back to the restoring the drums question !! LOL

I've made a command decision to replace all of the lug and misc. mount screws with new ones. Will the ones I have seen on different sites work, as they are usually listed in metric sizes. If not....where would be a good, and reasonable source for these? I have tried hardware stores, etc...with nothing close.

And while I am at it.....what about the not-so-chrome wing bolts and nuts ? I sure dont want to use these old rusty ones, and hardware stores only have galvanized-looking ones.
I hate to be a pain in the ass...but you guys are smart !! And I am a rookie at this restoration thing.

Thanks again !

Ed

[Elvis]

Find what you have and how many of each you need, then give these guys (http://www.tacomascrew.com/) a call.
They can probably help you out with the chromed pieces, as well.

If you decide to change out the entire tom / floor tom brackets, Ludwig is still your best bet for the parts.



Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Thanks, Elvis.....you da King !

Ed

[Elvis]

You're welcome. =)

Elvis

[Chicagoed]

Ok...

Im into the home stretch with this resoration. I have my replacement bass drum, and I'm shopping for the wrap. How do you guys feel about the product that Jammin Sam sells? The color match is very good, and they recommend their high bond tape method. It seems like a good idea on its face. However...I am concerned that if the shell is not perfectly perfect (which I am sure its not), I dont want this wrap to be loose or bubbly. However...if can get the shell failry smooth after removing old wrap, cleaning and sanding I'm thinking it might work ok.

Any opnions on this ?

thanks,

Ed

[Elvis]

I think we've been over this?...


Elvis....

Forgot to ask ya....who do you recommend for the recovering wrap? There are a lot of places online who sell wrap. How would I go about finding which ones are the best match for the factory gold sparkle wrap? I figure this might be tough, but I want to try to get as close as possible.

Ed
Unfortunately, the old sparkle wrap finishes are hard to match.
According to a friend, those sparkles were actually made from finely crushed glass and they all came from one supplier.
When that guy retired, he had no takers for his business and no one to pass it on to, so the supply dried up with his retirement.
Also, all wraps come from one maker, who is based in Italy.
What they do is cast large blocks of a plastic type material and either add in coloured dye or suspend "pieces" in it.
The blocks are then cut into many thin layers and these layers are further processed (a processs which I cannot remember what it entails at the moment) and those processed pieces are then cut into more managably sized sheets.
Its those cut sheets that are what's sent off to the various distributors (or the drum companies themselves).
Since the glass distributor's retirement, all sparkle finishes are now a metalflake finish and there's an obvious difference.
With the advent of the internet and the call from drummers worldwide, complaining about the non-availability to match older sparkle finishes, a new sparkle type finish has hit the market.
It's called "Glass Glitter" and is an attempt to recreate the look of the older sparkle finishes.

Sam Barnard has been specializing in public drum wrap sales for 22 years (according to his website).
Here's a couple of exaplmes I pulled off of Sam Barnard's website (www.jamminsam.com)

Gold Sparkle
http://www.jamminsam.com/images/goldsparklepc.jpg

Gold Glass Glitter
http://www.jamminsam.com/images/goldglasstom.jpg

NOTE: Another friend warned me about purchasing from Sam Barnard. Apparently they try to sell you some kind of adhesive tape along with a wrap purchase. He says the tape is crap and your best bet is to save your money and opt not to include the tape with the purchase.
You can also get wraps from a number of other companies, such as Precision Drum or Drummaker.
Some of the manufactures will also offer wraps.

Here are the current offerings from Ludwig's website
http://www.ludwig-drums.com/archive/gfx/finishes/large/SPARKL_v2.jpg

...the gold sparkle finish is the yellowish one between the red and blue drums (NOTE: I noticed a little of the colour faded as the new window came up after I clicked on the sparkle examples, so the gold appears more "goldish" than what's shown here).

Also, notice the drum the on the far left end.
That finish is known as "Chmapagne" and people often confuse Champagne with Gold, as the colours can come off similarly.
Compare and see what fits best.
Again, some fading has occurred, so Champagne is a little more "goldish" than what appears here.
I don't know if you can get the wrap straight from Ludwig, but if you decide to go that route, this is what they're offering.

Here's another idea - I don't know how well this will fly, but if you can get wraps from Ludwig, try taking an example of your finish over to your local dealer and see if their rep will pass that onto Ludwig, in an effort to best match the finish on your drums.



Elvis

In addition to the above, I've heard that Elmers Wood Glue is a pretty effective bonding agent for applying wrap to wood.
There are other agent's out there as well.
I would talk to some people at the local hardware stores and see what might be your best option.

Glad to hear that the project is going along well.
Would love to be there to see your friend's face when you show him the kit.



Elvis

[harryconway]

Good friend of mine has done a lot of re-wrap jobs, some involving wood veneer. He uses 3M Fastbond Contact Adhesive. Once it's on, it's on.

[Chicagoed]

OK.....

Got my wrap sample from Jammin Sam the other day. The match is virtually perfect ! I stripped the other bass drum, and after getting old adhesive off, it looks pretty good. Still waiting for Precision Drum to send me a sample, as they said they would. I'm trying to decide whether to use the JamminSam method of high bond tape, or the glueing method that would have to be done with the other product. The video at Jammin Sam, makes it look pretty darn easy. And I like easy !!! Just not too sure if it will stay tight and look good.

Anyone ever use this product ?

Ed

[Elvis]

NOTE: Another friend warned me about purchasing from Sam Barnard. Apparently they try to sell you some kind of adhesive tape along with a wrap purchase. He says the tape is crap and your best bet is to save your money and opt not to include the tape with the purchase.

Ed,

Forgot to mention, that "friend" builds drums for a living and gets his stuff from Sam all the time, so when he mentioned that to me, his experience stemmed from more than just a one time shot.

However, if you wanna get the tape, go right ahead.



Elvis