Jazz Cymbals

[arsenal1189]

Hey guys, don't post here often but here goes...

This summer I'm planning to have a job before I go to college to save up some money and buy some drum stuff. I'm an ardent jazz lover and looking for a cymbal upgrade...

I use a 4 piece drum set (Sonny Payne set up) and just purchased a Sabian AA Raw Bell Dry Ride. Though not the "prototypical" jazz ride it did help me with some of the Latin music I do play. I like it and am planning to keep it on the set as an auxiliary ride.

Anyway, I was planning to purchase a splash, a crash, a ride and a pair of hats...

High Hats: I love high hats that have a crisp clear "chick" sound when closed together. I like it low and dry as well. The open sound should not be bright but rather dark and dry... I also want a solid stick articulation when the hat is closed. (The Hand Hammed Duo Hats seem the right fit)

Crash: I want a simple crash that has a solid clear sound when crashed but I also want to be able to ride on. As a jazz musician you can never stop creating too many textures. I like a clear stick definition where the crash does not vibrate so much that you can not hear the individual stick hits. I still want to hear a little ring but not too much (I hope that made sense). This could in a sense be a crash ride.

Ride: I want a thin cymbal with extremely clear stick definition and a very nice dry sound (dry like Sahara desert dry). I love different unique sounds and want something creative and perfect for jazz. The K custom special dry ride has always been on my list and I love it but I need to save up that extra money.

Splash: A regular splash that would not sound too trashy or obstreperous.

Any thoughts would be welcome...

I play both types of jazz, combo and big band...so some versatility is key

Would my suggestions be good and what other ideas do people have. Thank you

[Wavelength]

You might want to check out some Turkish hand hammered cymbals, such as Bosphorus and Istanbul. They might suit well for your taste for dark and dry sounds.

[fourstringdrums]

You might want to check out some Turkish hand hammered cymbals, such as Bosphorus and Istanbul. They might suit well for your taste for dark and dry sounds.

Exactly. Check out www.cymbalsonly.com I just got a set of Bosphorus Turks from Tony. I picked cymbals that work good in most situations, but they have alot of jazz appropriate cymbals. Check out the Meinl cymbals as well. He just got in a bunch of custom for him jazz models.

[drummaman1]

Istanbul Mehmet Modern Legend

OR

Istanbul Agop Mel Lewis Series

Check out each line, see which ones you dig.

Also:

Sabian HHX Legacy

Sabian Artisan

Paiste Dark Energy or Traditional if you got the bucks

Zildjian K Constatinople if you got the Mega Bucks!

[rendezvous_drummer]

Where are sound files for istanbul cymbals??

[lil will]

i use, 22" constantinople medium thin ride low as my main ride. warm washy, good stick definition great for crashing. the most beautiful cymbal ive ever played in the world! lol

as my second ride i use a 20" k pre aged light ride, this is less washy with quite alot of bright stick definiton in comparrison with the constantinople. this again is great for crashing, has an awesome bell for latin and sounds fantastic when i put on a chain for a sizzle!

im yet to buy a nice crash, some nice hats and a huge jeff hamilton style china!

ive been looking at the constantinople crashes, 18" sounds nice, ive heard it played as a ride and is just as good as any other 18" ride ive heard.

for hats ive been pondering for sometime, the constantinoples again sound georgeous, but bosphorus and istanbuls have such a brilliant textural sound, awesome chicks aswell! dark and warm. one of the best pair of hats ive ever heard were a pair of 15" pasite 502's! they had the most amazing chick sound with such a funky retro style, hve a look out for them nocking around in second hand collections!

hope that helps

[arsenal1189]

Istanbul Mehmet Modern Legend

OR

Istanbul Agop Mel Lewis Series

Check out each line, see which ones you dig.

Also:

Sabian HHX Legacy

Sabian Artisan

Paiste Dark Energy or Traditional if you got the bucks

Zildjian K Constatinople if you got the Mega Bucks!

Bro, I've read up on both Bosphorus and IStanbul and just found out how much I was missing...

WOW!

[fourstringdrums]

Bro, I've read up on both Bosphorus and IStanbul and just found out how much I was missing...

WOW!

That's how I felt after I got my turks :)

Rendevouz_Drummer - There are two links on the left side on www.cymbalsonly.com, one for Agop and one for Mehmet.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

www.cymbalfusion.com sells Masterwork, Jazz Series cymbals that are perfect and the price is right, and they have sound bytes for each individual cymbal

[rendezvous_drummer]

That's how I felt after I got my turks :)

Rendevouz_Drummer - There are two links on the left side on www.cymbalsonly.com, one for Agop and one for Mehmet.

Cheers buddy. I might buy some Istanbuls when I get my jazz setup.

[Snowdogyyz]

Where are sound files for istanbul cymbals??

Try here: www.thecymbalshop.com

It's the largest AGOP dealer in the US. Check out the Mel Lewis stuff and the Signature stuff as well. Each cymbal has a soundfile.

[arsenal1189]

Okay guys, I spent forever looking and listening to the different cymbals...I CAN'T CHOOSE!!! Is there any store in the NYC areas that sell them...my nearest music store does not...

[Cymbalrider]

I'm looking for similar cymbals as replacements for A Zildjians. So far the best choices seem to be: 1)Sabian HHX Groove hats 15 (jazzier than the 14) Groove Ride 21(jazzy ride, nice bell too) and a Studio Crash 18
2) Bosphorus Hammer 14 hats, 20, 22 crash/rides Very interesting cymbals here, they sound great when Jeff Hamilton plays them anyway...

The Hammer series will certainly satisfy any jazz needs here. These are on the light side though while the HHX are about the lighter side of medium weight cymbals. It just seems that the HHX could be more useful in other situations so these are worth a look too.

[Class A Drummer]

Hi hats- zildjian Quick Beats. Im pretty sure that matches your description.

Crash- Zildjian 17" Dark crash is a pretty nice one.

Ride- You may possibly want to think about using flat ride. I like almost every one that i hear. Usually have good stick definition i belive.

[rendezvous_drummer]

No, if you want a dark low Hat then stay away from quickbeats. I have them and they're bright as hell.

[arsenal1189]

I emailed Tony and was hoping for some advice...I love his stock and he is very descriptive of the sounds

[Paradigm_Cal]

I'm just gonna throw the Sabian Artisan out there as a possibility...

I have a 22' Artisan Medium, and It's an awesome awesome cymbal. It's really hot and traditional sounding but it feels different than other traditional rides, I find it more versatile than most people think. It doesn't have the biggest bell around, but if you catch it with the shoulder of the stick, it gives a great ping.

Just another option, try it out :)

[vicfirthtenorline]

its already been said, but if you have the money, the k constantinoples or straight up vintage are the way to go. whenever i use my 22" high bell medium thin low i get amazing compliments. same with my vintage acie hats and ride. and my eak flat ride. personally, bosphorus are amazing cymbals, but something just doesnt do it for me. you just need to get into a good shop with a wall of rides, close your eyes, and just play.

[Michael G]

Don't think you have to use K Cons, or Bosphorus, or whatever well know name for making good jazz cymbals. There are other GREAT cymbals out there that work very nice for jazz. Ed Shaughnessy is my favorite example, he uses 15" AA Regular hi-hats, 3 AA thin crashes at 15" and 18," an AA china, and his signature Universal Ride. And they sound Awesome, cymbals you wouldn't normally expect to see or hear about for suggestions.

Also I believe Joe Morello today uses AAX Studio Hi-hats 13" and AA thin crashes and a prototype ride? I think.

So don't limit yourself to the big names in Jazz cymbals, search around in other lines, top of the line or not.

Then again, K cons and others are really good jazz cymbals are cool to go with to.

[KCMcC]

what "kind" of jazz are you playing in the two settings?

Makes a big difference.

The need for a splash is limited in most jazz settings, and in more "modern" stuff (non-fusion) you really don't need designated "crashes" just 2 or 3 good crashable rides, and a nice pair of hats.

[Skitch]

Check out a Sabian HH 21" Vintage Ride; it sound great, very smooth qualities!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[gretsch223]

Okay guys, I spent forever looking and listening to the different cymbals...I CAN'T CHOOSE!!! Is there any store in the NYC areas that sell them...my nearest music store does not...

Both Between 6th and 7th Avenue

48th street- Sam Ash, Manny's Music

46th street- Drummer'sworld

-they both have a nice cymbal selection......Not so much for Bosphurus and Istanbul, more for Zildjian and Sabian.

[bilkay]

Check this site and have a look at the Dream Bliss cymbals. I currently have a 20", 1810g crash/ride, with a 22", 2500g crash/ride on the way. Don't let the prices fool you, they're great cymbals. And Chris is a great guy.

http://www.frontrangebronze.com/

I also play Bosphorus, Istanbul Agop, Paiste and Zildjian cymbals. For Bosphorus, it sounds like Turks (Master Turks, especially) or Antiques might fit. Agop Turk, Signature, Special Edition Jazz, Sultan, or Vezir are great jazz cymbals, too. In the Paiste line, Dark Energy Mark I or Mark II will work but the Traditionals may be too washy for you. I'm not a big Zildjian fan but I do like the K Custom Dark line and some of the Constantinoples.

Another good resource for Istanbul Agop cymbals is......

http://superstitionpercussion.com/

Best of luck!

[jazzin']

what "kind" of jazz are you playing in the two settings?

Makes a big difference.

The need for a splash is limited in most jazz settings, and in more "modern" stuff (non-fusion) you really don't need designated "crashes" just 2 or 3 good crashable rides, and a nice pair of hats.

I completely agree. I would check this option out as you really can get the sounds you're after out of maybe 2 nice rides (a dry ride, and a nice warm ride with more wash) and hats.
I don't know about the need for a splash...? I don't think I've heard a splash used in any of my records, which could be the reason you want one, but a short high pitched 'Pishhh' sound just would stand out in a strange (imo not good) way. Crash? I honestly think some of the rides sound better when used as a crash than most crashes do hehehe.
Check out the new K 24" light ride...holy c%$p. If I had money that would be a definite.

[Drummer Karl]

So, as a few people said already, cymbalsonly.com is a darn amazing source for what you want. Didn`t you already get a Turk Ride from Tony??

However, I`ll now recommend you some of those cymbals:

As a Hi-Hat I would recommend a 14" Turk Hi-Hat, it is dark, dry and sounds very inspiring in my opinion. Another baby I really like is the Istanbul Agop Signature Hi-Hat. Sounds sweeter than the Turk and has more trashy qualities. Here is a sound clip of the Signature model (955/990 g): http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/sf/sig/14sig955990j.mp3

...and a sound clip of a Bosphorus Turk Hi-Hat 14", 942/1152 g: http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/Bos/sf/k/14kd9421152j.mp3

Crash: I`m really not the Crash cymbal-man...but I`ll try to tell you some good crashes.
Rather than taking a heavy crash which is ride-able I`d buy a light ride which is Crash-able. =) So, why not an Istanbul Jazz Special Edition 19" Ride, maybe ask him for one which is about 1300 grams light. Here is a sound clip of a (sold) 1383g model: http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/sf/se/19se1383k.mp3

Ride: One word (if you havn`t already get it): TURK. period.

Splash: If you wanna have something which is clearer, kinda glassy and not so trashy I`d personally like the Bosphorus 10" Antique splash. Here is a sound clip (256 g): http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/Bos/sf/a/10a256a.mp3

hope I could help!

Karl

[aboylikedave]

Ride: I want a thin cymbal with extremely clear stick definition and a very nice dry sound (dry like Sahara desert dry). I love different unique sounds and want something creative and perfect for jazz. The K custom special dry ride has always been on my list and I love it but I need to save up that extra money.

If you like dry, and if you like the K Custom Special Dry Ride then have a listen to the Meinl Byzance Dry Ride, it's a fantastic sound to my ears, dry, earthy and musical. I've not heard in person but from the sound files the Istanbul Turk and Sultan sound nice (Turk sounds the driest). K PreAged Dry Light Ride - I got a bargain off the bay but absolutely hated it!!

[d.c.drummer]

I would swap out the Duo hats for A Quick Beats or A Mastersounds.

I would also look at a light ride for a crash. If not, an 18" K Dark is a good look. Rich, clean, and dark.

[fourstringdrums]

I would swap out the Duo hats for A Quick Beats or A Mastersounds.

I would also look at a light ride for a crash. If not, an 18" K Dark is a good look. Rich, clean, and dark.

I've played both and the Duo hats are in a different ballpark than QB's or MS. They're darker sounding, have more of a hissy/trash to them when opened, and to me overall just more musical sounding. The light/crisp Bosphorus Turks I got I picked based on how close they sounded to the Duo Hats to me.

I do agree with the light ride. Like I said above I've got a 19" Thin Ride I use as a crash, and it just has something that a 19" Crash equivilant doesn't have.

[The.GuessWho]

Crash: I`m really not the Crash cymbal-man...but I`ll try to tell you some good crashes.
Rather than taking a heavy crash which is ride-able I`d buy a light ride which is Crash-able. =) So, why not an Istanbul Jazz Special Edition 19" Ride, maybe ask him for one which is about 1300 grams light. Here is a sound clip of a (sold) 1383g model: http://www.cymbalsonly.com/cymbals/agop/sf/se/19se1383k.mp3
Karl

Just for the record: You should be able to ride or crash any cymbal. Good technique (and knowing the cymbal) should enable you to get whatever sound you want out of it...

[Drummer Karl]

Just for the record: You should be able to ride or crash any cymbal. Good technique (and knowing the cymbal) should enable you to get whatever sound you want out of it...

Very right indeed!

Of course it is possible and I agree that a good technique will give you a more pleasing ride sound on a crash but I just made some bad experience with riding on crash cymbals, often (but right, not always) it sounds just much too washy and loudish...

Karl

[Cymbalrider]

Actually if you are a a combo/big band player the Bosphorus Hammers come to mind. These are the best sounding jazz cymbals out there really. You have the hi-hats being thin but crisp the 20" light ride and 22" medium light ride, and theres a 22" china available too. You can can any of these with rivets... The 20" ride is really thin and crashable but its curved profile and smaller bell give it some nice light ride characteristics. The 22" is a great jazz ride, also very crashable but certainly able to dig in here and the bell is nice. Listen to some Jeff Hamilton stuff and you can hear these. I think his 22 ride is riveted though. If you want the Zildjian route look into Brian Blade's set-up. He's got Constantinople rides all around--light ones and medium ones. Erskine has a similar deal but a drier sound. The K Custom Dark series is ok too but the cymbals are more one purpose (the crashes really are only crashes and the rides are sort of a mix). The regular K Crash/rides are really a good option though. A lot of heavy rock guys use them for crashes only. So I bet you could get a 20" or 18" crash/ride then get your Special Dry Ride and be set. As for hats, the Ks are popular and they have the new Light ones. Also a cymbal not to overlook is the A Zildjian & Cie. Vintage ride they make now, it's like a Constantinople but not as dark so they put it in the A series. I hope any of this makes sense...

[zidjan]

Hey...i actually have a 20" K Custom Medium ride that i am selling...for $200...interested??? i have pics if you do..email me zidjan@hotmail.com..thank's