Smaller sizes, but better drums?

[justJon]

Opinions, please.... I am currently playing a Japanese Tama Rockstar kit, 24" kick, 14" rack, 18" floor. I love the "big" sound I get from these, and the classic/blues rock band I play with does, too.

-BUT-

I have an opportunity to pick up a Ludwig classic maple kit in 20, 12, 14 configuration.
In order to pay for it, I'd have to sell my current kit, so just keeping it as a second kit is not an option.

Would I be disappointed in the volume/depth, whatever, of the smaller sizes? Or would the maple shells make the difference over my current "mahogany"/poplar shells? I can't figure a way to arrange a side-by-side comparison, and each sounds great in individual trials.

Anyone?

[fourstringdrums]

Opinions, please.... I am currently playing a Japanese Tama Rockstar kit, 24" kick, 14" rack, 18" floor. I love the "big" sound I get from these, and the classic/blues rock band I play with does, too.

-BUT-

I have an opportunity to pick up a Ludwig classic maple kit in 20, 12, 14 configuration.
In order to pay for it, I'd have to sell my current kit, so just keeping it as a second kit is not an option.

Would I be disappointed in the volume/depth, whatever, of the smaller sizes? Or would the maple shells make the difference over my current "mahogany"/poplar shells? I can't figure a way to arrange a side-by-side comparison, and each sounds great in individual trials.

Anyone?

You would notice a more open sound with the maple vs. mahogony but it's not enough to make up for the sizes. A 20" bass can replace a 22" in some cases but not a 24". 12 & 14 toms can't replace 14 & 18. You can still tune them to sound punchy (as smaller sizes tend to sound) and open, but it's not going to be the same. You may regret it later.

If you love your kit now I wouldn't sell it for another unless it has closer sizes.

[harryconway]

Are you selling the Rockstars and/or trading them as a down payment for the Luddies? And if so, how much more scratch do you have to come up with to finish the deal. The Ludwig kit is and will be worth more. And if it's a straight across trade, do it and do it now. You're basically going from a beginner kit to a pro level kit. Jump on it, if you can. You can always add onto your Ludwig kit at a later point in time with a larger kick and bigger floor tom. Match the finish and you'd have 5 drums for all occasions.

[Ozzy Biz]

Are you selling the Rockstars and/or trading them as a down payment for the Luddies? And if so, how much more scratch do you have to come up with to finish the deal. The Ludwig kit is and will be worth more. And if it's a straight across trade, do it and do it now. You're basically going from a beginner kit to a pro level kit. Jump on it, if you can. You can always add onto your Ludwig kit at a later point in time with a larger kick and bigger floor tom. Match the finish and you'd have 5 drums for all occasions.

I'm with Harry here; I would not hesitate in swapping those big poplar/mahogany shells for some really nice maple drums. You can always pick up a big kick, use the 14" as a rack and convert the kick into a big-a** floor. You never know, you may prefer the feel and sound of the smaller sizes anyway.

Biz

[justJon]

Thanks for the replies so far, keep 'em coming!
Price difference will be ~ $400.
I had thought about the value end of things, but I'm a player, not a collector, so the sound is really the thing.
I admit I'm a little worried about the bass player's reaction to a "tiny" kick. Right now He usually stands right in front of me and i rock his backside with my right foot. (That doesn't sound right, but you get my drift).

[fourstringdrums]

Thanks for the replies so far, keep 'em coming!
Price difference will be ~ $400.
I had thought about the value end of things, but I'm a player, not a collector, so the sound is really the thing.
I admit I'm a little worried about the bass player's reaction to a "tiny" kick. Right now He usually stands right in front of me and i rock his backside with my right foot. (That doesn't sound right, but you get my drift).

Well I have to take back some of what I said. You can get a powerful sound out of the smaller sizes, it just will be different. I believe Keith Carlock uses a 20" bass drum and that has a ton of punch to it. I also find that tuning the bottom heads on smaller drums really increases the punch and projection on the toms.

[harryconway]

Right now He usually stands right in front of me and i rock his backside with my right foot.
I would advise never using that sentence again. Especially with a forum of drummers. My suggestion of adding more drums later would be, add a 24" Luddy if you miss the big kick and add a 16" or 18" floor later, if you need. So you get versatility. A smaller kit. 20, 12, 14. A larger kit. 24, 12, 16. More pieces. 24, 12, 14, 16. Monster. 20, 24, 12, 14, 16. And honestly, don't let bass and guitar just cram volume down your throat. If they can't hear the kick and snare they're playing too loud.

[Skitch]

And honestly, don't let bass and guitar just cram volume down your throat. If they can't hear the kick and snare they're playing too loud.

And the "Can I get some more of me in the monitor?" escalation that goes with it!



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[justJon]

honestly, don't let bass and guitar just cram volume down your throat. If they can't hear the kick and snare they're playing too loud.

That is possibly the most valuable piece of drumming advice I have received in 35+ years of playing! (Now if I can only find the courage to follow it!)

[the.tree]

If you get a good bass head and amplify your bass drum the small kick shouldn't be that big a deal. But why not just save a little while longer, and get a pro level kit with your sizes. It doesn't make sense to me to trade in for something you might not want down the line. Its all up to you though if the extra cash might be hard to come by, I would say keep your kit. But my advise would be to save and get the perfect set, and not settle for anything less.

[Fatticus]

If you get a good bass head and amplify your bass drum the small kick shouldn't be that big a deal. But why not just save a little while longer, and get a pro level kit with your sizes. It doesn't make sense to me to trade in for something you might not want down the line. Its all up to you though if the extra cash might be hard to come by, I would say keep your kit. But my advise would be to save and get the perfect set, and not settle for anything less.

I agree with this guy. Unless you are unhappy with what you have right now, I'd just save my money.

[tamadrummer132]

personally, i like fusion sizes (10,12,14) MUCH better then the normal 12,13,16. The normal seems so big a bulky, and harder to tune. not to mention fusion sizes look better...

but in the end its personal sound preference

[fourstringdrums]

personally, i like fusion sizes (10,12,14) MUCH better then the normal 12,13,16. The normal seems so big a bulky, and harder to tune. not to mention fusion sizes look better...

but in the end its personal sound preference

I agree, I have a much easier time tuning smaller drums. They also respond better I think and fit in a wider variety of styles than larger drums IMO.

[fat in the middle]

I myself waited. I have a big old gretch kit, and i love it, but i wanted a smaller jazz kit, so i held off.Now i have both, and very happy. But its air that is being moved. a 20 inch kick won't move the same air as a 24 regardless of quality. Its your sound, and when or if you do change, you may find it takes a while to adjust. But having 2 kits has helped me with recording options.That could be a bonus for you later. I say hold onto your kit and don't sell.

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

I heard a 20x20 kick over the weekend with a SKII/Reg head combo and it had great punch. Of course, it was a ddrum Dios Exotic Wood (Bubinga). The SKII heads can make your kick sound a little bigger than it actually is.

I tried out 10" and 12" rack toms as well, and I really liked them. To me it makes more sense than 12" and 13". Some kits only had a 14" for the floor tom, and I didn't really like that. I still wanted a 16" for that role, but my new kit will have a 14" floor as well for more options. Having the 14" and 16" will let me do low pitch tom rhythms- mainly flam stuff between the floors and snare. I felt the 12" was a bit too high to share that role with the 16".

[Elvis]

You would notice a more open sound with the maple vs. mahogony but it's not enough to make up for the sizes. A 20" bass can replace a 22" in some cases but not a 24". 12 & 14 toms can't replace 14 & 18. You can still tune them to sound punchy (as smaller sizes tend to sound) and open, but it's not going to be the same. You may regret it later.

If you love your kit now I wouldn't sell it for another unless it has closer sizes.

I've owned a Classic Maple kit for about 7.5 years now.
That's the BIGGEST sounding 14" floor tom anyone will ever play.

However, I have to side with fourstrings here.
You'll get the more resonant sound, it'll be darker and the tone will be much more "lovely" and "colourful", however smaller diameter drums will want to naturally sing at a higher pitch, so if you're into the "low" (for lack of a better word) sound you get from your big drums, the LCM's just aren't going to make up the difference.

I would suggest trying them out, though.
The sound is impressive and you might find that the higher pitch isn't all that bothersome to you.


Check 'em out before you dismiss the idea totally.




Elvis

[justJon]

OK, Just for closure's sake, this is what I brought home yesterday to replace my big Rockstars:
'68, 3-ply, re-ring, clear interior. 22,12,16.
No regrets, no buyer's (or seller's) remorse.
The sound from these is phenomenal. But some of you already knew that!

[Elvis]

Nice.
Congrats on your new purchase, and thanks for posting the pics.
Now all you need to do is replace that snare drum with a 6.5" Supra or BB, or an 8" Colessieum and snag a matching 14" floor tom (good luck) and you'll have a sweet little Rock/Pop/Big Band setup.
Cudos on "adorning" that kit with Paiste's, too.
Just like Gretsch & Ziljdian, Ludwig & Paiste is a classic setup.

...btw, if the hole in that base plate is 1", I have a tom mount that'll fit it.
Mail me, if you're interested.

Elvis
gundorps@yahoo.com

[Ozzy Biz]

Those new (old) tubs are killer. Damnit, now I have to go check ebay again thanks to you...

[justJon]

Thanks, guys. I'm soooo happy with this kit. Elvis, I too think Ludwig/Paiste is therock combo. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for a nice deep supra or similar, but my Metalworks will fill the gap 'til then!
Ozzy, I found these on craigslist, here in Albuquerque, NM. A local indie band was breaking up, and the drummer needed cash more than these (his third set, the other two are cool vintage Gretsch). I assured him they would be played lovingly, if loudly!

[Elvis]

Jon,


If I run across any 6.5" Supra's at a good price, I'll let cha' know.]

Meanwhile, check your PM.




Elvis

[Ozzy Biz]

Ozzy, I found these on craigslist, here in Albuquerque, NM. A local indie band was breaking up, and the drummer needed cash more than these (his third set, the other two are cool vintage Gretsch). I assured him they would be played lovingly, if loudly!

But we're pretty much limited to ebay or the trading post here in aus, unless you want to pay shipping from the states or something.