Giant Steps cymbal

[biscut]

What is the ride cymbal on Giant Steps?
Whats the modern cymbal that would have that sound?

My Agop Signature has a sound like it, but they didn't make lightly lathed cymbals back then did they?

[jazzgregg]

Do you mean the video with Ari Hoenig where they play "Giant Steps"????

If so, what of the two Ride cymbals do you mean, the lefty or his main Ride?

PS: Ari plays Zildjian cymbals and on Zildjian´s website I found out that he plays a K Custom 22" Left Side Ride as his second Ride and an Avedis 22" Medium Ride as his main Ride cymbal...if you mean this tune I hope I could help.

Karl

KARL!!!!

Ari Hoenig?!?!?!?

How about ART TAYLOR on the 1961 actual Coltrane recording!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Jeez man, c'mon. You should be ashamed of yourself, assuming it was some modern guys he was asking about!! What about history and passion?!?!=)

biscut- it was likely an old (not old at that time) K Zildjian, probably 20 or so inches. Agops often copy the sound of old K's so it's not surprising yours sounds a bit like it. Not sure what you mean 'lightly lathed' though.

G

[wy yung]

If it's the original Coltrane recording with Art Taylor, I'd guess a K. Not sure of the size.

[Drummer Karl]

KARL!!!!

Ari Hoenig?!?!?!?

How about ART TAYLOR on the 1961 actual Coltrane recording!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Jeez man, c'mon. You should be ashamed of yourself, assuming it was some modern guys he was asking about!! What about history and passion?!?!=)


Damnit...yes, I just thought he would ask about a vid of Drummerworld or so...how stupid of me. Forgive me, missunderstood something...

PS: Yes, passion...and history, it was my fault, really bad...

Karl

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Art Taylor?

Old Zildjian K. You'd probably be best off with a Bosphorous or Istanbul Agop.

Karl, you got Gregg angry... look what you did. I can vouch for Gregg's IMMENSE Coltrane collection, he sent me some of it. I wouldn't worry too much though, Gregg'll get over it.

[biscut]

Not sure what you mean 'lightly lathed' though.

G

What's amazing to me about the cymbal Art's playing is the tone; very dark with no brightness. Maybe it's taped.

The Agop Signature uses a rough lathing tool to make tonal grooves spaced 1/4" to 1/2" apart so there are unlathed spaces in between. Very hammered with a different broze alloy (not b20?).

When they were making old K's I assume they didn't use all the variations of hammering, lathing, polishing, etc. (I assume top and bottom lathed with the same tool and pattern) say bosphorus or istanbul have, yet they have a huge variety in sound.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

My Istanbul seems rather lathed. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the cymbal was taped, there's a trick to it, but some people much prefer it that way.

[jazzgregg]

What's amazing to me about the cymbal Art's playing is the tone; very dark with no brightness. Maybe it's taped.

The Agop Signature uses a rough lathing tool to make tonal grooves spaced 1/4" to 1/2" apart so there are unlathed spaces in between. Very hammered with a different broze alloy (not b20?).

When they were making old K's I assume they didn't use all the variations of hammering, lathing, polishing, etc. (I assume top and bottom lathed with the same tool and pattern) say bosphorus or istanbul have, yet they have a huge variety in sound.

Well I'm no Old K expert but they were lathed, polished and hand hammered (actual hand hammering, not the term Z uses today to fake out it's customers) back then. Old K's though usually sounded very different from one another and many were plain crappy. Endorsers usually picked from the factory and many have said(including Elvin) that they had to go through huge batches of them to find one they liked.

My point? Art's K was probably an already dry 20ish inch on the heavy side of medium. Maybe a strip of tape, but I'm not sure. Also, I'm pretty sure Art often used a variation on the clicky grip like Jimmy Cobb (thumb pocket). Lots of factors contribute to the darkness, not leat being the fact it was a K! Also never, EVER, EVER underestimate micing, that has more to do with recorded cymbal sound than anyone ever wants to admit.

edit- MFB- I have everything ever released of Coltrane as well as every known bootleg of every group, as far as I know=)
Karl- it's ok, as long as you learn from your mistakes and look behind you first.=)
Taping- yes, there are many tricks to it and many ways of doing it to bring out certain sounds in a cymbal.
G

[jazzgregg]

http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drum/dpa33/aerttaylor2.jpg

Assuming Art brought these cymbals to this photo shoot (a really really big assumption), there is tape on his (20 inch) ride. The placement of that tape would be there specifically to take away the highs. Of course, this pic could be totally irrelevant, maybe they aren't his or maybe they weren't on GS, though the date of the pic would be around the time of recording...
G

[Drummer Karl]

Karl- it's ok, as long as you learn from your mistakes and look behind you first.=)

G


Karl, you got Gregg angry... look what you did.

Yeah, as I said, very stupid missunderstanding of me...listened to that tune already. Can you send it to me Gregg? Would be very nice because it is a great song. Even greater than Ari Hoenigs "Giant Steps"...hahaha...sorry mate, was just missunderstanding.

Karl =)

[jazzgregg]

Yeah, as I said, very stupid missunderstanding of me...listened to that tune already. Can you send it to me Gregg? Would be very nice because it is a great song. Even greater than Ari Hoenigs "Giant Steps"...hahaha...sorry mate, was just missunderstanding.

Karl =)

You can easily find the whole album for pretty cheap, just look around for it. There are many must have tunes on there besides 'Giant Steps' like 'Mr. PC', 'Countdown' and 'Naima'.

G

[Drummer Karl]

You can easily find the whole album for pretty cheap, just look around for it. There are many must have tunes on there besides 'Giant Steps' like 'Mr. PC', 'Countdown' and 'Naima'.

G

hey, thanks for your recommendations. The most of the songs I know over net stream, drummerworld, Youtube...etc.

Soon is my birthdayyyy...haha, a good reason to get some must-have tunes. =)

Karl

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I'm listening to A Love Supreme right now (Acknowledgement, if you know) man Coltrane was something else...

But having all the bootlegs as well as real albums?! Holy Christ!