16th notes on hi-hat [Archive] - DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM

'groover'

02-02-2007, 11:22 PM

figure_02

02-02-2007, 11:37 PM

Just play it often, in the end you will get it. One tip is to set your hh pretty low, so your arm doesnt have to be so bent.

skaliwag66

02-02-2007, 11:59 PM

Thanks for the fast replies!

groover-
Yeah my palm is facing to the side. very rarely do I play it with the palm to the floor. When I do it becomes way easier as I use my fingers as well. I don't know how I got into the habit of playing with palms outward. I am playing the hi-hat the same way. With my wrists mostly instead of using fingers. Thanks for the heads up. i wouldn't have considered it otherwise.

figure-
Yea practice always helps. I play the traditional way. Not interested in playing the regular way anymore (unless I need real power or i am going really fast on the hi-hat). Playing traditionally is almost a reflex now which is good. Lowering the hi hat did occur to me but I am pretty tall and drum seats can only go up so far :)

skaliwag66

02-03-2007, 12:00 AM

oops sorry about the double post!

Class A Drummer

02-03-2007, 12:51 AM

Practice alot on the pad. I naturally gained alot of speed over about a month of practicing singles on the pad. Just the other day i decided to tap along on my pad and see if i could play the hi hat part neil is doing on Tom Sawyer and managed to get through it (barely).

Its really practice.

But...

You could also use the moller whip. Do 4 strokes. Its not that great of a thing to do though because each hit gets softer and softer. Unless you actually want to dynamically play it, its kinda a last resort for me usually.

da cheese walks

02-03-2007, 01:58 AM

You could also use the moller whip. Do 4 strokes. Its not that great of a thing to do though because each hit gets softer and softer. Unless you actually want to dynamically play it, its kinda a last resort for me usually.

Nah i wouldnt suggest the moeller for hi-hat 16th notes??you wouldnt get the same feel at all!

how fast do you want to go??

do triplets and things....like "Cocaine" by Clapton...that really helped me...i eman doing Cocaine,and "Rosanna" with one hand really got it up to speed....and triplets sound lovely,an now that my triplets on the hats are good,i can do pretty fast 16th notes easily on the hats with one hand...not Weckl fast tho!!haha!

h3r3tic

02-03-2007, 02:50 AM

The moeller is an Exelent way to execute those 16th notes on the hats. Belive me bro, it rulez on the hats because I myself had the same question until I saw Derrick Pope's video about applying techniques on the drumset. And that moeller sure is the best one for me.
Ofcourse there's the open/close but I still find the moeller technique much effective and more confortable! :)
specially when playing open-handed it feels lot better!

da cheese walks

02-03-2007, 02:58 AM

The moeller is an Exelent way to execute those 16th notes on the hats. .......

.........specially when playing open-handed it feels lot better!

yeah yeah actully maybe your right...i just know i use the moeller technique a lot but i find it strange to use on the hi-hats...

but saying that ive never tryed the moeller open handed on the hihats....?

well if it works for you it should be worth a try!

h3r3tic

02-03-2007, 03:05 AM

yeah yeah actully maybe your right...i just know i use the moeller technique a lot but i find it strange to use on the hi-hats...

but saying that ive never tryed the moeller open handed on the hihats....?

well if it works for you it should be worth a try!

Something I forgot to say:
I think executing the moeller on the hats when they're open, might be kind of hard because it may kill a little rebound, but believe me, when playng 16th notes with the moelle on closed hats, it is VERY EFFECTIVE :)

skaliwag66

02-03-2007, 06:02 PM

foursticks

02-03-2007, 06:37 PM

hi mate, how you doing? when you play the ride, how have you got your right hand positioned most of the time?
is your palm faceing to the side, or to the floor?

if you find it's to the side then it's bad news, and you should see what your doing on the hi-hat, and if there is a difference, even the slightest could be bad for you. if unsure, check out some of the top players on this site and see where it is different. i know its brief but its hard without seeing, good luck

You mean playing the hi-hat with palms facing outward is bad, or the ride as well? As far as my teacher told me, its correct to play with palms facing downwards on the hi-hat and the ride cymbal palms to the side...

jeffwj

02-03-2007, 08:46 PM

You mean playing the hi-hat with palms facing outward is bad, or the ride as well? As far as my teacher told me, its correct to play with palms facing downwards on the hi-hat and the ride cymbal palms to the side...

Your teacher is right, but the hi-hat can be played with either grip. But I would strongly disagree with Groover who said that playing the ride cymbal with palms to the side (French Grip) is wrong. Here are a few videos to prove my point:

French Grip on the Ride Cymbal
Steve Houghton - Click on the Fulcrum Grip Video Link
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/houghton.html

Peter Erskine
http://drummerworld.com/Drumclinic/Petererskinefast.html

Steve Gadd
http://drummerworld.com/Drumclinic/Steve_Gaddjazz.html

Hope this helps,
Jeff

h3r3tic

02-03-2007, 09:32 PM

Thanks for the suggestions everyone but uhhh...
what is a moeller whip? LOL

I don't know any terminology.

I am a self taught drummer. I don't even have a kit! I can't get one cause of neighbours. 7 years of air drumming made me quite good.

Except for 16th notes on the hi-hat:(

You'll love it!
There's how I learned the moeller;)
It was thanks to Derrick Pope moeller video

http://www.derrickpope.net/lessons.html

Deathmetalconga

02-03-2007, 10:51 PM

I agree with the advice about playing triplets to hone your skills.

16ths on the hihat with one hand comes easier to me because I play open, left hand on hihat and ride (one of the many advantages of playing with hands uncrossed). Crossing your right arm to play hihat puts additional stress on the shoulder, elbows and wrists, making it even harder to execute 16ths with one hand. It's more ergonomic to play open, which is why you can do the 16ths fine on the ride. The hardness of the ride cymbal no doubt helps some too. But even crossed drummers will play open if they get a chance - notice how crossed players never put their ride cymbal next to the hihat because they'd have to play ride crossed!

www.terrasonus.com

skaliwag66

02-03-2007, 11:19 PM

You'll love it!
There's how I learned the moeller;)
It was thanks to Derrick Pope moeller video

http://www.derrickpope.net/lessons.html

Awesome thanks for the link!

Splinter

02-04-2007, 12:01 AM

Moeller wouldn't be very advised if you want to play 16ths with a flat dynamic. Maybe you shoul listen more to the sounds you are making and how they contribute to the feel and texture rather than just playing the right notes.

playng 16th notes with the moelle on closed hats, it is VERY EFFECTIVE

7 years of air drumming made me quite good.
Sorry if this sounds rude, but if it was air drumming, your technique probably wouldn't be the greatest and your tone wouldn't be great, either...

My advice is get a pad and a metronome, focus on playing slow notes well.

skaliwag66

02-04-2007, 03:22 AM

Moeller wouldn't be very advised if you want to play 16ths with a flat dynamic. Maybe you shoul listen more to the sounds you are making and how they contribute to the feel and texture rather than just playing the right notes.

Sorry if this sounds rude, but if it was air drumming, your technique probably wouldn't be the greatest and your tone wouldn't be great, either...

My advice is get a pad and a metronome, focus on playing slow notes well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I may just pick one up this week.

I agree that my technique isn't as good as it would had i practiced on a set instead of air drumming. Like for example playing bass drum notes. Trying to increase some actual practice on a set as best as I can.

Splinter

02-04-2007, 05:10 AM

I was more referring to hand stuff, 'cos you know.. air doesn't have much rebound. A pad would fix any lack of kit problems.

hauk

02-04-2007, 07:22 AM

h3r3tic

02-04-2007, 04:40 PM

I was more referring to hand stuff, 'cos you know.. air doesn't have much rebound. A pad would fix any lack of kit problems.

Air??
I said that is it possible to execute 16th notes on hats, but they have to be closed.
Where's the air if you have your hats closed?

skaliwag66

02-05-2007, 12:08 AM

just to reference back to one of the first posts where you said you can play the 16ths on a cymbal to your right but not your hi-hats on the left, did you mean the same or different cymbals in both places? cause i get more rebound from my ride than my hats, that could be part of it.

I never tried doing 16th's on a cymbal to the left of me. I think it is just my arm. because when I move from the right to the left while doing 16th's it just gradually freezes up.

mikei

02-07-2007, 04:54 AM

You mean playing the hi-hat with palms facing outward is bad, or the ride as well? As far as my teacher told me, its correct to play with palms facing downwards on the hi-hat and the ride cymbal palms to the side...

I hope that isn't set in stone. I play the exact opposite. Palm to the side on the hi hat! I will have to take a look at it.

Class A Drummer

02-07-2007, 05:08 AM

Nah i wouldnt suggest the moeller for hi-hat 16th notes??you wouldnt get the same feel at all!

how fast do you want to go??

do triplets and things....like "Cocaine" by Clapton...that really helped me...i eman doing Cocaine,and "Rosanna" with one hand really got it up to speed....and triplets sound lovely,an now that my triplets on the hats are good,i can do pretty fast 16th notes easily on the hats with one hand...not Weckl fast tho!!haha!

As I said, its not that great a thing. Its kinda a last resort for me if my arms are just completley shot. But unless its like the begining of the song "Wet Sand" By the Chili Peppers (greatest rhcp song ever btw), its not that good an idea. Its all abut how you wanna feel it though, somtimes it may be the better thing to do (but rarely.)

rendezvous_drummer

02-07-2007, 07:38 AM

I love doing the moeller whip on the Hi Hats for the dynamics, but I don't resort myself to only that.

foursticks

02-07-2007, 08:15 PM

I hope that isn't set in stone. I play the exact opposite. Palm to the side on the hi hat! I will have to take a look at it.

No, no, no, he didn't say playing with palms facing to the side on the hi-hat is wrong, nor did he actually say that THE RIGHT WAY AND ONLY WAY was with palms facing downwards. He just suggest to play this groove with palms facing downwards once. HOWEVER, when I first met him (I've changed teachers a few times) and I was showing him my jazz ride cymbal technique, he mentioned that I was playing correctly with palms facing outwards to the side and he said that some people played with palms facing downwards which wasn't correct....

So no worries!

Solaris

02-08-2007, 03:52 PM

Some advice that has already been given:

- Focus on playing with your palms facing down.

- Play from your fingers, instead of from your wrists (and definatly not your elbows!)

A good warm up exercise to get your 16th notes happening that I was taught goes something like this:

play one beat of 16th notes with one hand, then play one with the other, like this:

RRRR LLLL RRRR LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Do this for ten beats, then double up, so each hand now plays two beats of 16th notes:

RRRR RRRR LLLL LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Again, do this for ten beats.

Now each hand plays 3 beats of 16ths, like so:

RRRR RRRR RRRR | LLLL LLLL LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a | 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a

Now, for the hard one! This one will give you the bpm to play the entire exercise to (because we all use our metranomes to practice...)

Play an entire bar of 16th notes with your right hand, then anotehr using your left.

RRRR RRRR RRRR RRRR | LLLL LLLL LLLL LLLL
1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a | 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a

Use this as a litte warmup exercise everyday before you do the rest of your practice and in a week or two you should start to see an improvement. You shoudl only be playing this around 80 -100 bpm at first. If you feel you can go faster, then each day push it a little more. See if you can go 5 beats faster than yesterday.

Just remember:- THINK OF PLAYING FROM YOUR FINGERS.
I know that in reality our wrists play a huge part in our technique, but our fingers are what gives us the ability to control the bounce and in your case to play the 16th notes.

I hope this has helped.

mikei

02-08-2007, 06:03 PM

The best exercise for me was to learn Tom Sawyer.

Learned it at a slower tempo with a metronome and after a while, the 16 got easier, the endurance increase and the pain (burning) stopped.

millerdakiller

02-09-2007, 06:57 AM

because of the position of the hi-hat it is difficult to use a french grip because of the position of the hi-hats as compared to the position of your ride. The French grip is the best(in my opinion) for using your fingers to play quickly. If you can try and position your ride further away from your body and lower so that you don't have to cross your hands. This way you will be able to use a french style grip.

RudimentalDrummer

02-09-2007, 09:10 AM

Any tips for playing fast on the hi-hat with just the right hand? I can do it fine on a cymbal placed to my right but when i go over to the hi-hat my arm totally freezes up.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

This has something to do with "The Right Technique" if you want to play "Very Fast 16th Notes using only the Right Hand".

One method I know is :- The 1st-beat - you slap on the Hi-hats using shaft of Sticks to the bow of the hats. The second beat that follow - you merely just lift up the stick (it's like dropping the sticks only - no strength is required here)...Then repeat the process - you get 1 e t a.....This is technique used because in a song, if you are to play it at very very fast speed using other Techniques, by the end of the song - you are drain out and you get stress-up, which is not good.

da cheese walks

02-09-2007, 11:47 AM

As I said, its not that great a thing. Its kinda a last resort for me if my arms are just completley shot. But unless its like the begining of the song "Wet Sand" By the Chili Peppers (greatest rhcp song ever btw), its not that good an idea. Its all abut how you wanna feel it though, somtimes it may be the better thing to do (but rarely.)

Ah yeah of course...it really is all about the feel...i think practicing triplets tho, really does help your 16th notes....it did mine!

And yeah man "Wet Sand"....what a song!