70 lb. SNARE!!!!

[tmv31]

I was watching this video about how saosin recorded their new album, and Alex Rodriguez's drum tech brought in a "pig iron snare drum" as he called it, he said it weighed 70lbs. and when he picked it up it looked like it did, just wondering if you guys had any idea as to what it could be. thanks

[reddrummer90]

do you have a link or something?

[tmv31]

no, unfortunatly its on tv, I know he uses truth drums, but since his drum tech brought it in, I'm not sure about what it is. If you have comcast and on demand its under the mtv 2>rock>saosin:making the album.

[Skitch]

I was watching this video about how saosin recorded their new album, and Alex Rodriguez's drum tech brought in a "pig iron snare drum" as he called it, he said it weighed 70lbs. and when he picked it up it looked like it did, just wondering if you guys had any idea as to what it could be. thanks

A chiropractor's next home! Sorry, I couldn't resist but it seems manufacturers are bent on making things heavier!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[bermuda]

I have a cast iron snare that weighs about 28 lbs, and that's pretty heavy. The only heavier snare I know - possibly - is a Sonor from the late 80s (I forget the model, but it was needlessly heavy.) I would say the tech was exaggerating. If the shell was extra thick, like 1.5", it could get up there weight wise, but it's questionable as to how good the drum would sound, and who would bother to make such a beast. Too much mass and weight will choke a drum.

Bermuda

[SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ]

The drum tech (or whoever) may have made it.

[Deathmetalconga]

Insane!

I thought my solid-shell ironwood snare was heavy. 70 POUNDS. That's almost as much as my six drums put together weigh! Cast iron would be a very cool material for a set and it would sure look unusual.

True, a shell so massive would choke down the sound - unless you used huge sticks.

www.terrasonus.com

[wy yung]

That's very hard work for the snare stand.

[KCMcC]

I happen to know that a solid bar, 2" diamater and 7 feet in length, of colled rolled stainless stell weighs either 65 or 76lbs. We have one at our gym for doing grip work etc (try deadlifting a stainless steel 2" diameter bar and see what fails - it won't be your back or legs) and the number I associate with it is 76 lbs, I can't remember wether that is with or without a pair of 2.5kg spinlock collars (11lbs between the two of them)

a 70lb iron drum would therefore be ALOT of metal.

let's see if I got this right
area of a circle = pi * D?
therefore cross sectional are of that bar would be
~6.28 inches^2
6.28x84= a volume of ~527 cubic inches (84 is 7 feet in inches)

that would be a solid square of metal over 8 inches on a side. or to make a rectangle, 14 inches long (diameter of a snare) and 7 inches tall (a good metal snare depth) that would represent the snare shell if it was "unwrapped" and straightened out, it would have to be about 5.37" thick.

SO a 70lb steel shelled snare would have to have a thickness of 5.37 inches, and remember that that 14" would be the OUTSIDE diameter of the snare, which means that the diameter of the inside of the drum (the air under the head) would be 3.26 inches.

that is 14-5.37 on each side (total of 10.74), so the "middle" would be 3.26 across - the vast majority of the drumhead would be sitting above not a resonant chamber of air, but a wall of solid metal.
I think. I'm a lawyer not a mathemitician.

[Garvin]

WOW!!! Way to show your work. I was skeptical but lacked the intellect to prove this was unlikely. Thanks!

[KCMcC]

Now that I think about it the shell of the drum would have to be even thicker than that. The INSIDE diameter would be much less than 14"

so instead of the shell being a rectangle like:

______14"
_______________
|_______________|
|_______________|
______14"

It would be like this

______14"
______________
\ ___________ /
_\___________/
less than 14"

this would be a smaller shape at the same thickness, because of the taper down to the inner diameter. So to reach the same volume of metal and therefore weight/mass it would have to be even thicker than the 5+ inches in my math above

[KCMcC]

You could maybe do it if you built it like a Peavey snare drum where the bulk of the drumshell is OUTSIDE the hoops, but it would be ridiculously large, and really silly looking.

[KCMcC]

THAT MATH IS ALL WRONG!

I brainfarted and used pi *d (circumference) instead of pi * r^2

[KCMcC]

I think it happens to come out exactly double though, so the drum would still have to have a shell over 2.6" thick, which is still ridiculous, but within reason with a "Peavey" type construction.

[KCMcC]

Wow. Just realized another fundamental flaw in my calculation. The "rectangle" of unwrapped snare would be 40some inches long.

It'd still be a thick danged shell though. I'm going to go have a couple cups of coffee and see if my brain can turn back on.

[KCMcC]

Okay, my last post in this thread now that I have made a thorough jackass of myself:
the coffee didn't work, but farming the issue out did (like I said to start, I'm a lawyer not a mathemitician). The following is from a buddy of mine on a lifting board:

for fun.

Density of cold rolled steel (lb / cu. in.) = 0.284 (according to the interweb, not mikey)

As a check of that data, let's use it on your "known". The bar.
The volume of a 2" x 7ft bar = pi*r^2 * 84 = 12 cub in
since density = weight / volume then
Weight = density * volume = .284 * 264 = 75 lbs. You said 76. So, I believe our density number is close.

Anyway.

Your snare drum.
Radius = 7 in
height = 7 in
They say weight = 70 lbs.
Volume = Voutercyl - Vhole
ir = Inner radius = radius of the hole.
Solve for thickness.

thickness of the drum wall = 7 inches - inner radius

W = d * (V1 - V2)
70 = (.284 * ((pi * 7^2) * 7) ) - .284(pi*ir^2 *7)
70 = 306 - .284*pi * 7 * ir^2
70 = 306 - 6.245 * ir^2

sqr(|(70-306)|/6.245) = ir = 6.147
7-6.147 = .85 in = thickness of the wall.

Summary.
I'm no drummer, but I guess it seems reasonable. Assume your cold-rolled steel snare is of semi standard size, 14 inch diameter & 7 inches tall. You'd have a "thickness" of a llittle less than an inch thick for the wall of the snare.

[tmv31]

That seems about right, cuz he showed it throught the snare side head and it looked to be just under an inch in thickness. It had a pretty cool finish on it, almost looked to be raw, or maybe some type of oil coating. It had 42 strand snares on it, and black powder coated die cast hoops. Also, the sound of this thing (even through my crappy tv) was pretty remarkable. Howard Benson(major producer I guess) stated that it was one of the best snares he had ever heard. Anyways just thought I would share this with you guys, if you find any info on the drum please pm me as I would be interested to know how much one of these would run(im guessing pretty expensive) but none the less. Thanks again.

[Deathmetalconga]

That seems about right, cuz he showed it throught the snare side head and it looked to be just under an inch in thickness. It had a pretty cool finish on it, almost looked to be raw, or maybe some type of oil coating. It had 42 strand snares on it, and black powder coated die cast hoops. Also, the sound of this thing (even through my crappy tv) was pretty remarkable. Howard Benson(major producer I guess) stated that it was one of the best snares he had ever heard. Anyways just thought I would share this with you guys, if you find any info on the drum please pm me as I would be interested to know how much one of these would run(im guessing pretty expensive) but none the less. Thanks again.

I would love to hear this drum. There is an incredible diversity of things drums can be made from, yet 95 percent are made from plywood. Mass market drum shells have changed very little in 150 years and it's so nice to hear about someone making something truly different.

www.terrasonus.com

[sloppyn9ne]

Okay, my last post in this thread now that I have made a thorough jackass of myself:
the coffee didn't work, but farming the issue out did (like I said to start, I'm a lawyer not a mathemitician). The following is from a buddy of mine on a lifting board:

for fun.

Density of cold rolled steel (lb / cu. in.) = 0.284 (according to the interweb, not mikey)

As a check of that data, let's use it on your "known". The bar.
The volume of a 2" x 7ft bar = pi*r^2 * 84 = 12 cub in
since density = weight / volume then
Weight = density * volume = .284 * 264 = 75 lbs. You said 76. So, I believe our density number is close.

Anyway.

Your snare drum.
Radius = 7 in
height = 7 in
They say weight = 70 lbs.
Volume = Voutercyl - Vhole
ir = Inner radius = radius of the hole.
Solve for thickness.

thickness of the drum wall = 7 inches - inner radius

W = d * (V1 - V2)
70 = (.284 * ((pi * 7^2) * 7) ) - .284(pi*ir^2 *7)
70 = 306 - .284*pi * 7 * ir^2
70 = 306 - 6.245 * ir^2

sqr(|(70-306)|/6.245) = ir = 6.147
7-6.147 = .85 in = thickness of the wall.

Summary.
I'm no drummer, but I guess it seems reasonable. Assume your cold-rolled steel snare is of semi standard size, 14 inch diameter & 7 inches tall. You'd have a "thickness" of a llittle less than an inch thick for the wall of the snare.



jesus christ you put in alot of effort.

[katman]

Well here's a snare off the ghostnote site that a guy made from a piece of cast iron pipe. It's 5.5x13 and I think about half an inch thick. And this weighs about 25 pounds.

So I guess if you double the wall thickness, add an inch or two in depth and an inch in diameter you're almost up to 70 pounds-ish.

Here's the link to the story: http://www.ghostnote.net/vbforum/showthread.php?t=2913&highlight=pipe

[KCMcC]

I didn't do the second set of calculations. The question intrigued someone else (either that or my hamfisted humanities educated attempt to figure it out elicited some sympathy.)

[drozzy]

KCmCc - One problem - Cast iron is a much more dense material than stainless steel, so although i admire all the effort you put into these calculations, the weights may be far different in reality.

Good hustle though!

[Budiesel]

I just found this thread. I have the DVD where they are talking about the 70lb pig iron snare. And I also found a link on youtube for it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rEpsCd6GXhM&mode=related&search=

It starts talking about the drummer (my favorite) around 3:25
It starts talking about the snare at 6:16

[nerdy]

I highly doubt that drum is seventy pounds. Just look at the way he picks it up off of the stand. In a seated position, he only has his biceps and a bit of forearm to rely on lifting that drum. Also, he only can grip it with his fingertips, not his palms like you can do with a dumbell.

There is no way that drum is seventy pounds.

[Pairofdiddles]

Why bother?

At the end of the day, you can purchase phenomenal sounding snare drums that weigh 8 pounds. Does a drum that weighs 25 or 70 pounds REALLY sound that much better?

Last time I checked, most people have to lug drums to gigs. I'm all about LIGHTER, not heavier.

Seems gimmicky to me.

[freehandstyle]

Why bother?

At the end of the day, you can purchase phenomenal sounding snare drums that weigh 8 pounds. Does a drum that weighs 25 or 70 pounds REALLY sound that much better?

Last time I checked, most people have to lug drums to gigs. I'm all about LIGHTER, not heavier.

Seems gimmicky to me.

My DW Maple 10+6 ply reinforce kills me already cause when I use it i bring it around town ALL day. Maybe cause I'm weak but damn carrying that all day kills.

I leave it at church's locked cabinet now lol
Best choice i made ever. But I still got my cymbals to carry around town cause I don't have a car.

And I think my snare weights around 10lb?

Anyone have the Pearl Reference and know the weight of that?

[Deathmetalconga]

I wanted to bump this thread because the cast iron snare drum from 2-2-07 is just outrageous.

[eddiehimself]

Okay, my last post in this thread now that I have made a thorough jackass of myself:
the coffee didn't work, but farming the issue out did (like I said to start, I'm a lawyer not a mathemitician). The following is from a buddy of mine on a lifting board:

for fun.

Density of cold rolled steel (lb / cu. in.) = 0.284 (according to the interweb, not mikey)

As a check of that data, let's use it on your "known". The bar.
The volume of a 2" x 7ft bar = pi*r^2 * 84 = 12 cub in
since density = weight / volume then
Weight = density * volume = .284 * 264 = 75 lbs. You said 76. So, I believe our density number is close.

Anyway.

Your snare drum.
Radius = 7 in
height = 7 in
They say weight = 70 lbs.
Volume = Voutercyl - Vhole
ir = Inner radius = radius of the hole.
Solve for thickness.

thickness of the drum wall = 7 inches - inner radius

W = d * (V1 - V2)
70 = (.284 * ((pi * 7^2) * 7) ) - .284(pi*ir^2 *7)
70 = 306 - .284*pi * 7 * ir^2
70 = 306 - 6.245 * ir^2

sqr(|(70-306)|/6.245) = ir = 6.147
7-6.147 = .85 in = thickness of the wall.

Summary.
I'm no drummer, but I guess it seems reasonable. Assume your cold-rolled steel snare is of semi standard size, 14 inch diameter & 7 inches tall. You'd have a "thickness" of a llittle less than an inch thick for the wall of the snare.

Hmm that does seem reasonable. However didn't he say the drum was made out of pig iron? Carbon is a lot less dense than iron so i would imagine that would make steel less dense as a whole. Also in maths, these days we tend to use SI units mate ;).

[Les Ismore]

Here's a pic of a 50 ply Keller maple. If this drum were made of iron, with hardware it could easily weight in the 70 lb range.

Note the vent holes.

[pearlygates]

Here's a pic of a 50 ply Keller maple. If this drum were made of iron, with hardware it could easily weight in the 70 lb range.

Note the vent holes.

Why? I spoze cuz you can.

[shoedaddy]

Here's a pic of a 50 ply Keller maple. If this drum were made of iron, with hardware it could easily weight in the 70 lb range.

Note the vent holes.

Some of the Pearl Reference snares are that thick, but, although heavy, are not 70 lbs. Tama's Bell Brass snare was the heaviest one I've tried. I don't think it was close to 70 lbs., but it was already a bit unsettled on the snare stand. Better get a good stand--you wouldn't want something that heavy tipping over onto your gear or your foot, for that matter.

[Mikecore]

Regarding the Ghostnote drum, that is the legendary, super-awesome and kind of heavy "poop-pipe" snare. The guy found a section used to join sewer pipes (in a junkyard, I think) and his mind sprung into action. He had to have it turned to size as suggested by the pictures, but the rest is raw. New poop-pipes have been made since, though I can't remember if they were to order or just for himself.

There's been some reported fawning over the sound, but I couldn't judge that without playing the thing myself!

[grahamo87]

My pearl reference brass 14x6.5 is in the 25-30 lb range. The bell brass warlord is noticeably heavier than the reference. Add a DW9000 snare stand on it and you've got yourself close to 50 lbs

[Jon_Gwon]

I'm about two years late on this thread, but I might just have stumbled on the answer as to wheather or not the snare could really be 70lbs or not? as I just bought a 14x5 Potyondi Cast Iron snare drum, 1/4" thick with 1/2" bearing edges and it weighs in at exactly 21lbs.

I was on the phone to Peter Potyondi the other day and he has a 14x5.5 cast iron snare 3/4" thick that weighs in at 52lbs. which is about 10lbs per inch of drum (depth). With that being said... if you had a 14x7 cast iron snare, 3/4" thick, that would put you right around the 70lbs mark.

I'm going to check out that 52lbs snare soon... I'll let you know my findings about how it sounds. He claims that a cast iron shell that thick doesn't choke a drum at all, in fact it just sounds deeper and has more tone!! I guess we'll see.

My Potyondi cast iron was an absolute dream in the studio!. It beat out my 14x8 Unix Stave Bubinga and my 14x5.5 Ayotte Keplinger w/ wood hoops, which by all accounts are incredible drums, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say he know's what he's talking about. My Potyondi is the shallowest drum of the bunch and by far had the biggest tone... It was crazy!

*I'll have some sound clips soon*

[Les Ismore]

50-75 lb snare drum? Im not really interested. Get a snare up around 100 lbs and I may consider it, of course if would have to have handles on it.

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing there could be somebody in the audience with a 50 lb Patyondi, I'd need a 100 pounder for my ego to feel comfortable.

[Kothlow]

call up my machine shop in nova scotia, we can make it happen.

[Ian]

Wouldn't the weight make the tuning distort when on a stand?

[Jon_Gwon]

Wouldn't the weight make the tuning distort when on a stand?

That's an interesting thought?

I guess it probably would, that's a hell of a lot of weight to be putting on the reso head.

[Polymetrix1618]

Okay, my last post in this thread now that I have made a thorough jackass of myself:
the coffee didn't work, but farming the issue out did (like I said to start, I'm a lawyer not a mathemitician). The following is from a buddy of mine on a lifting board:

for fun.

Density of cold rolled steel (lb / cu. in.) = 0.284 (according to the interweb, not mikey)

As a check of that data, let's use it on your "known". The bar.
The volume of a 2" x 7ft bar = pi*r^2 * 84 = 12 cub in
since density = weight / volume then
Weight = density * volume = .284 * 264 = 75 lbs. You said 76. So, I believe our density number is close.

Anyway.

Your snare drum.
Radius = 7 in
height = 7 in
They say weight = 70 lbs.
Volume = Voutercyl - Vhole
ir = Inner radius = radius of the hole.
Solve for thickness.

thickness of the drum wall = 7 inches - inner radius

W = d * (V1 - V2)
70 = (.284 * ((pi * 7^2) * 7) ) - .284(pi*ir^2 *7)
70 = 306 - .284*pi * 7 * ir^2
70 = 306 - 6.245 * ir^2

sqr(|(70-306)|/6.245) = ir = 6.147
7-6.147 = .85 in = thickness of the wall.

Summary.
I'm no drummer, but I guess it seems reasonable. Assume your cold-rolled steel snare is of semi standard size, 14 inch diameter & 7 inches tall. You'd have a "thickness" of a llittle less than an inch thick for the wall of the snare.
That looks too complex for the average drum forum member to understand. I glanced over it for a few seconds and it looks correct, but I've taught math before so I think I can make it simpler. I rounded down a bit, so the values are only 99% accurate. With this formula and three of the four variables, you can find either the density, volume of the drum if it was completely solid, volume of the inner empty space, or mass.

D(V1-V2)=M
D is density, V1 is volume of the entire cylinder, V2 is volume of the empty space, and M is mass (or weight).

This page (http://hyochum.physics.sbc.edu/SBC_courses/physics223Lab_fall2000/P223_fall2000_densities.htm) lists the density of many drum shell materials. The density of pig iron is 7.207 g/cm^3 or 0.26 p/in^3. A drum shell is around 1/2" undersized, so a 6.5x14 snare would have a 6.5x13.5 shell. If you were to make a solid pig iron 6.5x13.5 cylinder, because DV=M, with a volume of 930.78 in^3 and density of .26 p/in^3 it would weigh a whopping 242.0028 pounds. Just by estimating with mental math this drum can exist, because the larger the diameter of a drum the thinner the shell can be to weigh the same.

Our goal is to find V2. That number subtracted from V1 is the volume of the wall of a snare. Since we want to know how thick the snare would be at 70 pounds, M must equal 70 in the formula. Plug D, V1, and M into the formula, solve for V2, and you will get 661.55 in^3. Now you must find the radius of this volume. Because we have all but one value, the radius, we just need to modify the formula for the volume of a cylinder.

V=pi x R^2 x H

After we solve for R, the equation will look like:

R=square root of (V/pi x H)


Plug in the values we have and you will get a radius of 5.7. Subtract that from the radius of the shell and you get 1.05 in. That means a 1.05" thick pig iron drum will weigh 70 pounds. This drum is definitely not impossible to make.

I wrote it in five minutes and might have skipped some steps, so if any of you guys have questions or don't want to do the calculations and ask me to do them for you (it takes about 30 seconds), let me know.
Glossary:
DV=M
Volume of cylinder=Pi times radius^2 times height
Density: if you have a one *unit of measurement) cube, how much it would weigh
Mass: weight
Pi: 3.1416..., but I used 3.142

[Polymetrix1618]

50-75 lb snare drum? Im not really interested. Get a snare up around 100 lbs and I may consider it, of course if would have to have handles on it.

I wouldn't feel comfortable knowing there could be somebody in the audience with a 50 lb Patyondi, I'd need a 100 pounder for my ego to feel comfortable.
A 14x6.5 pig iron snare would only need to be 2.06" thick to weigh 125 pounds.