How do I continue?

[drumapprentice]

Hello dear drummerworld community,

At least I read many topics in this forum and they were interesting but now I got a problem and I thought that I could ask you for some help.

First some details of me:
I use to play the drums for 7 years, I like it and I got a talent in drumming. I like the Jazzdrumming and maybe I am going to study musics. My teacher teached me for 5 years but because of some problems I do not have money to pay drumlessons, but my teacher teaches students at some highschools and I already played their stuff, so that I could say I am not a beginner.
I bought some books like "Stick Control", "The Art Of Bop Drumming" and "The New Breed". I still keep on working on this books but I lost kind of a plan what to do. My drumteacher had a plan what we will do next but I have no plan. It is like I could do everything and I do not know where I should start at. Additionally I do not know to which music I should play or how I should practice with records, because my teacher always gave me some music. Maybe you know "Overtime" by Dave Holland Big Band - I like this record but it is so hard and I do not know how I should practice those things.

If you have got any ideas how I can practice that I got line where I can say: "Yeah that will be the next thing to do, after I did this", this would be perfect :)

Thanks for answers ;),
drumapprentice

(sorry for my bad english - still practicing this too :P)

[NUTHA JASON]

it sounds like you need to discover or rediscover your love for music. don't let us tell you what to play. find out what music you love and want to be creative in...explore it, buy some discs and find like minded people to explore it with. you like jazz then try to find some cats to groove with. it sounds like you have done a lot of practice but need to find application. i found that playing in a group highlights what you need to do next. for instance a few years ago i joined a reggae ska outfit and i was a metal drummer but the only drummer around at the time. before then syncopation was just a word i probably couldn't spell. suddenly i had to turn my understanding of groove inside out and along the way discovered bob marley. so i found a whole set of fills and ideas i needed to develop and funnily enough now, when i'm playing in a rock group i can blast out reggae fills and syncopate etc. so it all builds in together.

my advice is to split your practice into two subgroups:
technical and applied
let the technical work continue in the books you have studied but then also have fun by just drumming as a musician (with guys or a CD)

j

[wy yung]

Hello dear drummerworld community,

At least I read many topics in this forum and they were interesting but now I got a problem and I thought that I could ask you for some help.

First some details of me:
I use to play the drums for 7 years, I like it and I got a talent in drumming. I like the Jazzdrumming and maybe I am going to study musics. My teacher teached me for 5 years but because of some problems I do not have money to pay drumlessons, but my teacher teaches students at some highschools and I already played their stuff, so that I could say I am not a beginner.
I bought some books like "Stick Control", "The Art Of Bop Drumming" and "The New Breed". I still keep on working on this books but I lost kind of a plan what to do. My drumteacher had a plan what we will do next but I have no plan. It is like I could do everything and I do not know where I should start at. Additionally I do not know to which music I should play or how I should practice with records, because my teacher always gave me some music. Maybe you know "Overtime" by Dave Holland Big Band - I like this record but it is so hard and I do not know how I should practice those things.

If you have got any ideas how I can practice that I got line where I can say: "Yeah that will be the next thing to do, after I did this", this would be perfect :)

Thanks for answers ;),
drumapprentice

(sorry for my bad english - still practicing this too :P)


My first recomendation is: join a band.

Secondly, you might like to do as NUTHA JASON recomends, devide your practice into various sections. If you had 90 minutes to practice, you could work on stickings for 30 minutes, exercises related to coordination on the kit for 30 minutes, and the final 30 minutes to groove playing. Or you could spend each day on one thing. I often do this. For example, yesterday I worked solely on a pad. Today I am working on conga grooves. Tomorrow I may do something else. It's all about keeping it interesting and making it enjoyable as well as working on things that will help you.

The books you have are all great. If you get through those you will be doing okay.

Good luck!

[jmontroy]

Yea, I have a problem with not being focused when I practice, so take nutha's words to heart and spend your time wisely. Try to always play with CDs unless you're working technical ability. That includes coordination, rudiments, different ideas, whatever. Or when you're trying to learn a song. But never just sit down and kinda...play. I do that too much, and while you can make progress, you'll probably end up doing the same groove you always do.

I personally think the most important thing is playing with CDs, cause that's where it all matters, and that's where your love of drumming should stem from. If you don't want to play with CDs, you're not going to do well when it's time to play with people.

[drumapprentice]

Thanks for your answers.
Well, first of all I play in three BigBands, but I would like to play in a smaller group. The problem is that our town is really small and I got no chance to play with a jazz combo.

@jmontroy: Yeah, I know this "playing around". Sometimes I just play and that's all, but now I hope I can change some things in my practice timetable.

Thanks to everybody for your advice, I will try to get a better drummer ;).
If I have got a problem, I will just post again :)

drumapprentice

[wy yung]

Thanks for your answers.
Well, first of all I play in three BigBands, but I would like to play in a smaller group. The problem is that our town is really small and I got no chance to play with a jazz combo.

@jmontroy: Yeah, I know this "playing around". Sometimes I just play and that's all, but now I hope I can change some things in my practice timetable.

Thanks to everybody for your advice, I will try to get a better drummer ;).
If I have got a problem, I will just post again :)

drumapprentice

I think one thing that is important to remember is that musicians in general have pretty high personal standards they wish to live up to. It is very easy to be hard on oneself. I also think that it can be difficult to notice personal advancement. In my experience, progress is achieved in stages. One practices and reaches a certain point. Before one can go beyond this point, one must get used to the new level. Once this is accomplished one moves another step. So on and so forth.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You seem to be going about things in a very productive manner.

[drumapprentice]

Don't be too hard on yourself. You seem to be going about things in a very productive manner.

Yeah you are right, I am hard on myself, because when I see all those big drummers how they play I feel like: "You got much to learn".
I got some compliments on my drumming but I cannot identify on this opinion. My schoolteacher says, that I play very precise and all that stuff, but I still think that this no great drumming, I just do my best that's all.

Another point of drumming that concerns me is the expression of drumming:
When I hear how some drummers play accents and I play those accents it's different, but I try to get their methods and as a result I play an accent how I feel to play it. I don't know if that is kind of "styledevelopment". At least I think that I should be capable to play various styles.

drumapprentice

[wy yung]

Yeah you are right, I am hard on myself, because when I see all those big drummers how they play I feel like: "You got much to learn".
I got some compliments on my drumming but I cannot identify on this opinion. My schoolteacher says, that I play very precise and all that stuff, but I still think that this no great drumming, I just do my best that's all.

Another point of drumming that concerns me is the expression of drumming:
When I hear how some drummers play accents and I play those accents it's different, but I try to get their methods and as a result I play an accent how I feel to play it. I don't know if that is kind of "styledevelopment". At least I think that I should be capable to play various styles.

drumapprentice

Well you seem to have a good head on your shoulders. That is certainly a great place to start. Just play. It'll all come together in time. (No pun intended)

[vadrum]

well, as long as you are playing then you will be doing okay. try to set yourself small goals and work on achieving them. the "art of bop drumming" is a good place to start. read thru that book and take what is written to heart, it is one of the best intro's to jazz drumset that ive seen. if you don't have a place to play, or sit in, try to host some informal sessions at your place in order to gain the necessary playing experience.

looking to start w/ the dave holland big band may be a bit much to swallow (nothing wrong w/ that if you want to try tho). try some recordings w/ papa jo jones (spelled jo jones), max roach, or kenny clarke. this will give you a good starting point for jazz (straight ahead) drumming. listen to the music at least an hour a day, play w/ the music, transcribe the music, etc.

good luck

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Thanks for your answers.
I play in three BigBands, but I would like to play in a smaller group. The problem is that our town is really small and I got no chance to play with a jazz combo.
drumapprentice

This I don't understand: small town, no small groups.....three big bands? Ask the rhythm group members from some of the big bands to form a band with you, that's nine or ten players right there. DPS

[drumapprentice]

This I don't understand: small town, no small groups.....three big bands? Ask the rhythm group members from some of the big bands to form a band with you, that's nine or ten players right there. DPS

Ok I'll describe it: One bigband is our schoolbigband and they just play their instrument once a week and that's when we meet.
My second bigband is far away and the fact that I have not a car limits my movement. There are many capable players but I cannot go to because I have no money.
So the third bigband is an advanced bigband, but there I try to improve my doublebass skills, because I use to play doublebass for 4-5 years ;)

Thanks for your answers. I think I just have to begin and work. If there are any suggestions, just write them down, they will help me ;)

drumapprentice

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Ok I'll describe it: One bigband is our schoolbigband and they just play their instrument once a week and that's when we meet.
My second bigband is far away and the fact that I have not a car limits my movement. There are many capable players but I cannot go to because I have no money.
So the third bigband is an advanced bigband, but there I try to improve my doublebass skills, because I use to play doublebass for 4-5 years ;)

Thanks for your answers. I think I just have to begin and work. If there are any suggestions, just write them down, they will help me ;)

drumapprentice

So get the advanced big band players. Perfect! And I hope you are not thinking about "improving double bass" in a big band. Sounds like a waste of every body's time. I hope you are there to learn how to swing and drive a band, to play! DPS

[wy yung]

And I hope you are not thinking about "improving double bass" in a big band. Sounds like a waste of every body's time. I hope you are there to learn how to swing and drive a band, to play! DPS

I could not agree more.

Save the double bass practice for the practice room. When you are with a band, play music. In fact this is probably the most important lesson on this thread. Do not selfishly practice when in company with other musicians. It's an experienced musician's nightmare. I certainly would not suffer it for one minute.

[cnw60]

hey - I think Nutha Jason's advice to find creative inspiration in the music you love is the best advice.

We're busting this guys chops for working on dbl bass in a big band setting and I'm wondering how many times Louis Bellson got called out, laughed at, questioned for the same thing...???

Conventional wisdom is good, but it also can lead to conventional playing... then again, we're not all Louis, Max or Elvin...

Sorry - I just happen to feel like playing devil's advocate this time.

[vadrum]

So get the advanced big band players. Perfect! And I hope you are not thinking about "improving double bass" in a big band. Sounds like a waste of every body's time. I hope you are there to learn how to swing and drive a band, to play! DPS

im not sure he means double bass drums, i think he means upright bass.....

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

im not sure he means double bass drums, i think he means upright bass.....
Silly me, didn't think of that. My apologies. Anyway, there must be some good players in that band to form a small combo with. DPS

[drumapprentice]

Yeah sorry for my expression, I don't practice the doublebass on the drums but the upright bass. But it's not testing, it's playing together and I need to get some more experience.
So now the storm over Europe finally disappeared and I can go on drumming :)

Thanks for any advice,
drumapprentice

[vadrum]

i think you are on the right track. honestly, the riley book "art of bop drumming" is the best place to start. it gives you all the information you need in order to understand the music of jazz, the important elements, and plenty of technically challenging information to keep you busy. i would work primarily from that book and use these other books for supplementation. the other books i recommend would be stick control (for drumset exercises (such as the drori exercises), ted reed syncopation (to expand on reading, independence, and control of the instrument), any of the charlie wilcoxin books (play them as rudimental solos, then adapt the solos to the drumset (play the patterns but move the hands to different sound sources).

then you must listen, listen, listen. play along w/ records, transcribe the records....do anything you can do to get closer to the music. your experience w/ the upright bass will only help in the long run, and could be very useful in the future as you will be able to get work as a drummer OR a bass player. plus, your knowledge of theory, ear training, and form will help your drumming and vice versa.

good luck

[wy yung]

Upright bass??? Oh well that's different.

As for Louis being called out for it and we doing the same thing, I'm sure Louis practiced at home and then played music with the band.