Jazz? (Scratches head)

[morbius25]

Ok, can someone explain to me how you go about learning how to play jazz. I listen to it and it doesn't really make a lot sense in my head. Can anyone help??

[rendezvous_drummer]

My advice is to go find a teacher and work with him. It's difficult to learn Jazz on your own. I bought a few books like "Techniques for the advanced" by Jim Chapin which is supposed to be the bible to jazz drumming, but you should really get a teacher. If you're unable to, I'd pick up Tommy Igoe's groove essentials book and DVD to get an idea of some jazz beats that are simple to play and it will give you a basic concept of Jazz, then after practicing your ride patterns and 4 way independance, you can move onto more challenging concepts.

[morbius25]

Well I had a teacher, but I felt like I could learn more on my own. I mean we spent like forever on the same two rudiments, but yeah i will definitely check that out. Thanks..

[Class A Drummer]

I agree with rendevous. But the book is called "Advanced techniques for the Modern Drummer." I just finished going through it. Its because of this book that i can improv swing jazz as well as I do. If you use this book, i can guarentee it will open you up more not only as a jazz musician but in other genres too.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Well I had a teacher, but I felt like I could learn more on my own.

Get a good one then... :)

[TheSteve]

Get a good one then... :)

Good call, you can only go so far on your own.

[Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan]

Well I had a teacher, but I felt like I could learn more on my own. I mean we spent like forever on the same two rudiments, but yeah i will definitely check that out. Thanks..

Maybe he felt you needed to learn something important from those two rudiments. I learned more, and I say this with complete honesty, from playing roughly 110,000 free strokes over a year on a pad in front of a mirror than I did racing through some super complicated book. I really mean that. So from that perspective, spending a long time on two rudiments sounds like a great path. May not be one you want to take right now, I sure didn't 20 years ago, but I think you have a great teacher potentially. DPS

[morbius25]

Get a good one then... :)

well he was great one but it seemed like /i would come and practice and never learn anything. But anyway...

[wy yung]

Well I had a teacher, but I felt like I could learn more on my own. I mean we spent like forever on the same two rudiments, but yeah i will definitely check that out. Thanks..

I've spent 25 years working on doubles. :D

Not to mention all the other techniques.

I'm still perfecting them. I have some students who must go back over certain techniques. The reason is that they have not practiced them during the week. As both a student and a teacher, I believe that one moves along according to the amount of effort put in.

On the other hand, maybe you do need a better teacher.

As for not getting jazz? One reason that keeps many people from jazz is that their ears have not yet developed the ability to recognise polyrhythmic music. It takes repeated listening before your ears, and then your brain, can recognise and understand what is taking place. Jazz does have form and what is played is deliberate. A younger player told me this week that before he read John Riley's Bop Drumming book, he thought that jazz drummers just kind of played away without any direction. As he discovered, this is not the case.

I recomend you be patient with both yourself and jazz. Give your ears a chance to acclimatise. Once they do you will discover that not only will your understanding of jazz improve, but of other styles as well that involve advanced polyrhythmic playing.

Good luck.

[bonzo49]

My advice is to go find a teacher and work with him. It's difficult to learn Jazz on your own. I bought a few books like "Techniques for the advanced" by Jim Chapin which is supposed to be the bible to jazz drumming, but you should really get a teacher. If you're unable to, I'd pick up Tommy Igoe's groove essentials book and DVD to get an idea of some jazz beats that are simple to play and it will give you a basic concept of Jazz, then after practicing your ride patterns and 4 way independance, you can move onto more challenging concepts.

Is this it, cause I need to get a copy.

http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/026360/details.html

[wy yung]

My favourite books are the following.

Ted Reed: Progressive Steps to Syncopation for the Modern Drummer.

John Ramsay : The Drummer's Complete Vocabulary as taught by Alan Dawson.

The John Riley books are very very good. Easy to understand and set out in a clear, no nonsense fashion. Any of these will get you started.

[vadrum]

My favourite books are the following.

Ted Reed: Progressive Steps to Syncopation for the Modern Drummer.

John Ramsay : The Drummer's Complete Vocabulary as taught by Alan Dawson.

The John Riley books are very very good. Easy to understand and set out in a clear, no nonsense fashion. Any of these will get you started.

actually id love to add copeland's "creative coordination" to this list.

[The.GuessWho]

One doesn't learn "Jazz" by reading about it or even by practicing things out of a book.

JAZZ CAN ONLY BE LEARNED VIA LISTENING!

[wy yung]

One doesn't learn "Jazz" by reading about it or even by practicing things out of a book.

JAZZ CAN ONLY BE LEARNED VIA LISTENING!

True, but the co-ordination necessary can be learned through effective exercises found in some very good books.

Practice methods should never be confused with playing music. They are simply that: practice methods. I do not believe those here recomending certain books are confusing the two.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Is this it, cause I need to get a copy.

http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/026360/details.html

That's the one! And while listening to Jazz is very useful, it's hard to learn coordination independance all on your own. This book will help you so much, it'll be great!

[Drummer Karl]

Well, actually listening makes sense but there is active and passive listening. So, it is cool to listen to jazz passivly, just to enjoy the music and doing something else while "listening". It will help you to develope and create a feeling for that big music style. Also listen to many styles of jazz (BeBop, Cool Jazz, Big Band, New orleans, Dixieland, haha, even Free jazz, and also mixes from Jazz and other hearable influences: Fusion, Jazz Funk etc.). Search also for the underground types of jazz music, there are too many...BUT, take your time, do not rush with listening:

The other thing would be active listening. Also listen to a jazz tune and analyze it. Discover feelings in the song and different parts, moods. Listen carefully to the seperate instruments (as a drummer, listen much to the bass also). Notice what they are doing in th tune, how the drummer supports them with comping, and the ride pattern, fill-ins, dynamics...how does the other musicians play together and seperatly

Also read about Jazz, history, tradition, how a Jazz tune can be built. Then try to play it, learn about the swing pattern, comping and try to execute it musically.

What i`ve written now is just the basic, so these are just a few ideas of sooo many what you could do.

Karl

[bonzo49]

That's the one! And while listening to Jazz is very useful, it's hard to learn coordination independance all on your own. This book will help you so much, it'll be great!


Thanks, I'll get that ordered. I love to listen to Jazz its just so cool. I have done a reasonable amount on jazz, but no way near enough, just the basics.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Good luck with it man, and be prepared to get frustrated. It's alot of fun!

[vadrum]

listening is, in fact, MOST important. however, if you dont have a foundation for understanding what the drummer is doing, listening and learning becomes unnecessarily challenging. using any of the aforementioned books will give the drummer new to jazz the foundation he needs in order to play jazz.

in particular the reed book, the copeland book, and the riley books will be the most informative due to the flexibility and scope of material covered by these books.

i mentioned this on another thread too, it is very beneficial to look at learning a melodic instrument when considering learning jazz. you dont have to be great at it, but being able to plunk out a few chords on a pf or guitar will help when it comes to understanding song form and learning melodies (both very important aspects of jazz music).

a solid teacher would be best, but not absolutely necessary. if there is a music college, id say within an hours drive, do yourself a favor and check out who is teaching there and take 1 or 2 lessons a month from them.

[morbius25]

ok so what should I start with listening to to get the hearing part down. Anybody got any good suggestions.

[The.GuessWho]

i mentioned this on another thread too, it is very beneficial to look at learning a melodic instrument when considering learning jazz. you dont have to be great at it, but being able to plunk out a few chords on a pf or guitar will help when it comes to understanding song form and learning melodies (both very important aspects of jazz music).


Very true! Being able to hear the melody and/or chord progression while playing (and knowing how phrases relate to these two) is very important (and something books don't talb about enough - if at all).

[vadrum]

ok so what should I start with listening to to get the hearing part down. Anybody got any good suggestions.

well, it depends on what you like, but you should look for recordings w/ jo jones, max roach, kenny clarke, billy higgins, mel lewis, roy haynes, art blakey, philly joe jones, jimmy cobb, louis hayes, elvin jones, tony williams, or jack dejohnette. that might be enough to get you started.

[maddrummr]

Well i got dragged into jazz band by my High school instructors. All i did was feel the groove of the music and improvise. The band directors loved it so i wont complain.

Of course all is different if you are trying to learn jazz completely by yourself. Which i did not do.