Heads up - Deals on Sonor Force 3005

[dingbat]

Thought I would pass this along, seaching ebay ran into an internet seller, offering Sonor Force 3005 kits with hardware packs for $799, free shipping (sorry, US residents only), however CA, FL, WA and VA residents have to pay sales tax (7% ?), still a very good deal. Auctions end in 3 days and 14 hours as of this posting.

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2 F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=sonor+force+3005&category0=

[nhzoso]

WOW, those are good deals. 5 piece too.. If I did'nt already have a 3003 I would jump on it but from what I have read the sound is not much different, which I find upsetting since you would think All Maple would send much better than Maple/Basswood??

[dingbat]

WOW, those are good deals. 5 piece too.. If I did'nt already have a 3003 I would jump on it but from what I have read the sound is not much different, which I find upsetting since you would think All Maple would send much better than Maple/Basswood??


I often wonder if that is an accurate assessment. Bear in mind that these shells are not North American maple, but are of an Asian variety. Advertising can be a little misrepresenting by skirting around grey areas as it relates to advertising law and practices, but no matter, this is still one heck of a deal. As far as comparing the two series, unless you can get both of them side by side, drum for drum, head for head and really hear them to compare, I would not rely on heresay. Keep in mind the physics of drums - the 3005's have quite a sharper bearing edge, very smooth, the edges on the 3003's are just as smooth, but are rounder and not as sharp, as I can attest to the fact due to owning previous toms in both the 3005 and 3003 series on the same kit, however in different sizes. The 3005 tom shells are also alot thinner, about half as thick as the 3003's, due to the 3003's employing basswood which is not as dense or rigid as maple, therefore they probably had to go with a thicker shell composed mostly of basswood, with two plys of maple on the 3003's for strength and rigidity. Knowing those things, shaper edges will promote more attack, rounder edges will soften the sound, thinner shells resonate more freely and at a lower fundamental pitch, thicker shells will give up some resonance and will raise the pitch, but will promote further sound projection towards the audience. Generaly, basswood is a softer wood that will tend to diffuse the sound, maple is harder and will promote a more poignant and clearer tone. Eh, what do I know, other than I hope someone benefits financially on this great price.

[Fardunda]

Her Dingbat,

Can you confirm that the maple is Asian maple? I read somewhere that Sonor confirmed it was North American maple but.............it was on the internet! :P

Dont mean to hijack, just curious.

Cheers

[drozzy]

This might be due to the fact that Sonor are updating a lot of their lines in '07

[dingbat]

Her Dingbat,

Can you confirm that the maple is Asian maple? I read somewhere that Sonor confirmed it was North American maple but.............it was on the internet! :P

Dont mean to hijack, just curious.

Cheers

There has been alot of discussion on the Sonor board about this - www.sonormuseum.com . There is also a google user group thread (that can be searched in google "groups") authored by the owner of a drum shop, who's name I do not want to drop out of courtesy, but I would put alot of confidence in what he says. He owns a well known 5 star drum shop in the U.S., has been a drummer for a long time, and attends NAMM trade shows on a regular basis and gets the inside scoop on drum products, I would not have any reason to doubt his product knowledge. Even without those discussions, the low price of the kits would not be in line with material costs if high quality NA maple were used. And from listening to the drums in the Force 3005 series, compared to kits known to be made of NA maple, (not to imply that the Force 3005 sounds bad) there is a difference in the richness and quality of sound. Lots of kits advertised are of "maple", but unless a manufacturer specifically states US/Canadian rock/sugar maple, chances are, it is not made of that material, because if it were, why wouldn't a manufacturer want to let that be known to drive sales of their kits?

Cheers

[DamoSyzygy]

There has been alot of discussion on the Sonor board about this - www.sonormuseum.com . There is also a google user group thread (that can be searched in google "groups") authored by the owner of a drum shop, who's name I do not want to drop out of courtesy, but I would put alot of confidence in what he says. He owns a well known 5 star drum shop in the U.S., has been a drummer for a long time, and attends NAMM trade shows on a regular basis and gets the inside scoop on drum products, I would not have any reason to doubt his product knowledge. Even without those discussions, the low price of the kits would not be in line with material costs if high quality NA maple were used. And from listening to the drums in the Force 3005 series, compared to kits known to be made of NA maple, there is a difference in the richness and quality of sound. Lots of kits advertised are of "maple", but unless a manufacturer specifically states US/Canadian rock/sugar maple, chances are, it is not made of that material, because if it were, why wouldn't a manufacturer want to let that be known to drive sales of their kits?

Cheers

Hmm Im not so sure... Could be either Asian or North American

Mapex make a point of mentioning that their Pro-M kits are made from North American maple. Seeing as both the Pro-M and 3005 kits are made in the KHS factory, is it not safe to assume theyd be building from the same stockpile of materials?

[dingbat]

Hmm Im not so sure... Could be either Asian or North American

Mapex make a point of mentioning that their Pro-M kits are made from North American maple. Seeing as both the Pro-M and 3005 kits are made in the KHS factory, is it not safe to assume theyd be building from the same stockpile of materials?

Not necessarily, KHS/Mapex are their own entity, no middle-man/contractor to pay to make their own drums. However, Sonor is in a business relationship with KHS to produce the Force series to Sonor's design specification, some of the profitability in the kit has to be eaten up as an expense by Sonor who has to pay KHS for drum building services rendered, thus adding another level of middle-man/contractor - basically, something has to give to offer the product at a certain price point, and in this case, it would seem logical that the expense of a middle-man/contractor would be offset by lower material costs . Advertising law in the US is fairly regulated, but marketers know how to "toe the line" in grey area to muddy the water and make suggestive inuendo to the buying public. There are many examples where a manufacturer/company can make "generic" claims in all sorts of products, from bread advertised as having 300% more calcium (300% more compared to what? if a slice of bread has .00018 grams vs. a slice of bread from a competitor who has only 00006 grams, then I suppose the statement is true, but that's not alot of calcium, however hearing 300% sounds like a very large amount) to real cheese vs. pasteurized "cheese" product/spread, to beverages that are advertised as a "juice drink" and contain only 10% juice vs. 100% real fruit juice - in this case that the kit is made of "maple", but as soon as they step over the line and get very specific, such as saying "North American" maple, they better have the goods to back it up, else they will be sniffed out in short order by the regulatory bodies that be who protect consumer's rights. No where in Sonor's advertising or promotional literature distributed in the US does Sonor make the claim "North American" maple on the Force 3005 series, but if you look at advertising material concerning the S-Class, Delite or Designers, the "North American" maple tagline is prominently touted.

[nhzoso]

WOW, if you read the forum on the sonor museum link it seems Sonor is having major QC issues with cracked Toms, and bad bearing edges... Hmmmm Kinda sounds like PDP awhile ago.

[Fardunda]

Thanks Dingbat, much appreciated.

Certainly sounds like the logical explanation from a marketing perspective. NA Maple is definately a strong selling point and using the cheaper Asian maple shows a bigger distinction between the force and s-class lines.

Regardless, I still love my 3005!

[DamoSyzygy]

Dingbat, Ill get the answer for you (I have contacts at Sonor) and get back to you.

[dingbat]

Dingbat, Ill get the answer for you (I have contacts at Sonor) and get back to you.

Thank you, I am very curious to know what Sonor will say. I hope I'm not stirring up any controversy with any folks who own or are looking to buy the kits, and as I have stated as a former owner, I think they are very good quality kits compared to others in their price point/class.

[CHOPS36]

This is a very interesting thread. I am a 3005 owner as of 4/06 and really love the sound, and 'lightness' in weight these drums are to haul around to gigs. I will also be very curious as to know what SONOR will say in regards to the maple thang.

I was going to post my kit for sale soon, just to get another, yet more compact kit, and I hope that this will not cause me to get less $$$ for my kit because of a QC issue. For example, the the housing industry here in Florida, investors are jacking up the house prices just because they are in demand, and people were paying the inflated prices for those homes. Now, the market is flat, and the investors are losing their back-ends on their investments. I know drums to homes is not a good apples to apples scenario, but I feel, the SONOR name should come through on perspective buyers, new or used, eh??

Please let me know if I am off base with this..........thanks!

P.S. - if anyone is interested in the kit, please look at 'Your Gear', thread "My 3005 SONOR kit - Code Red..."

[Vintagedrummer]

Probably 'old news' by now but the 3005's are going for $750 on eBay. I have a Yamaha Stage Custom & a 3005. For 750 clams, there is no way you can go wrong with the Sonor's.

My 3005's have absolutely no quality control issues. Shells, edges, finishes & hardware are all top notch. Just my 2 pennies worth...

[PureRockFury]

My former drum instructor is Scott Atkins he is Sonor's Product Manager and Canadian Artist Relations. He works at Coast Music, which is Canada's largest musical instrument distribution center.

He has stated the Force 3005 maple shells are indeed of the Asian variety and not North American maple...HOWEVER, the Force 3007 are using slightly thicker shells and are using 100% North American Maple. This is what has caused the price to jump in the Force 3007 line. They removed a few finishes, added some, and changed the lugs to a Designer type lug, not an authentic Designer lug.

I trust Scott's word over anyone else. He has helped design new drum series for them. He also goes to the China factory often as well as the Germany factory. One bit of information, the China factory is built to German specs. All drum and hardware designing is done in Germany, those plans are then sent to the China factory for manufacturing.

[DamoSyzygy]

The Force 3007 series uses North American Maple (specifically Canada)

05' stuff could have (and probably was) Asian.

If you look at the woods on the 05 and 07 models, you can clearly see a difference.

[bodinski]

I have 3003s & added an 8" 3005. The first 8 I got had lopsided bearing edges & the replacement Sonor sent me had a very limited tuning range - I had to tension it to the moon to get anything other than a dull "thwack". I sold it.
FWIW, the '03 shells' inner layers consist of multiple vertical-grained segments - traditional Sonor construction with nice attention to detail.
The '05 shells innards are horizontal-grain & appeared to be bent from a piece of plywood, ends joined in an ugly diagonal seam.
Does the difference matter overall? Perhaps not, but I much prefer the 03s over the 05s. I am told that the 07s have improved quality.

[dingbat]

Wow, this thread was dug up! Anyhow, recieved the May buyers catalog from musiciansfriend.com and there is a hands-on review of the 3007 Force. The shell construction is as follows taken from the review -

"The woods used in the shell construction have evolved. The 3007 Series all-maple shells are a 9 ply, 7mm design, with the middle layers of Asian maple sandwiched between inner and outer plys of Canadian maple."

Saying that the 3007 shells have evolved implies that the 3005 series was indeed constructed entirely of Asian maple. Mystery solved.

[mikei]

WOW, those are good deals. 5 piece too.. If I did'nt already have a 3003 I would jump on it but from what I have read the sound is not much different, which I find upsetting since you would think All Maple would send much better than Maple/Basswood??


I had a hybrid kit that consisted of 5 3003 pieces and 3 3005 pieces.

There was not a noticable difference in sound. Definitely not worth the price of a new kit. Bearing edges were wonderful on both, and the hardware was the same.

Sonor just makes great stuff. I am debating now on a high end sonor or dw collectors kit myself as a second set.