Drumming punk/emo

[12step]

Hey this is my first post of hopefully many in this forum, I need some advice on drumming for punk/emo style music.

I have played in metal bands in the past so that's all I'm really familiar with, and I don't want to limit myself to just one style of drumming, and punk/emo is the style of music I most like to listen to.

So i was wondering if anyone had any sort of technique/videos/tips that could help me with drumming this style. I have the Liquid Drum Theatre video from Mike Portnoy, but I don't think alot of the things in that video apply to this type of drumming and alot of it is a bit too advanced for me.

I think i have some problems with the speed of alot of the songs and the quick snare rolls and being able to jump right back into the beat.

If you aren't familiar with the style here are a few bands I'm interested in.

http://www.purevolume.com/rufio
http://www.purevolume.com/nearmiss

I would rather not hear criticism for my taste in music, although I expect it, its just a hassle.


Thanks in advance.

[aahznightsky]

I would say that if you want to master any style of drumming, than just listen to and play along with that music. I'm not trying to bash punk/emo at all, but most of it is straightfoward enough that you can figure out how to play the parts without any external help. As far as technique goes... there really aren't any techniques exclusive to any one style of playing so just go through this forum to find explanations of techniques... especially moeller, gladstone, and the like.

[Jaymasta]

Everything you've learn't on drums over the years you should be able to do punk no problem but Punk can be a little challenging at times when your going really really fast most Punk drummers are really fast the beats are easy but sometimes for Punk It's about speed I'm not talking about My Chemical Romance or Green Day those bands are way off from punk. It's pretty easy stuff and I guess there's not much to say about it.

[12step]

After having a session of playing along to some songs I really see what you guys mean, i guess I sorta underestimated myself because I got the basic beats and fills down with minor messups. Most of it is that beat thats like (bass)snare(bassbass)snare.

[Johnny_Stacks]

Most of it is that beat thats like (bass)snare(bassbass)snare.

Thats true.. exspecialy for bands like blink when they had Scott and not travis.. there was alot of the bass snare bassbass snare. buttt the thirds bass would be on an off beat, and the hit-hat is using quater notes .. listen to Josie/My girlfriend from blink 182 to get the idea.. it looks out like this..

HH|x--x--x--x|
SD|----o-----o-|
BD|o----o--o--|

Sort of like that except this isnt the right font for doing tabs and i dont feel like changing it lol. just look at the tabs for old blink songs and you'll get the idea..

Peace- John

[Smoky_McPot]

aahznightsky is right about looking at the Moeller technique and also the Gladstone technique. I developed the Moeller by covering punk bands, usually the ride pattern is reasonably fast! When I realised what my hand was doing, I changed my practice routine to fit in practice with both the Moeller and Gladstone techniques. Check out the stick One Handed Rolls. Both techniques are explained in that thread along with the one hand snare roll, which you wont need for punk / emo but check it anyway. My advice is practice to the songs. I would recommend Mota by The Offspring, and M&M's by Blink182, theyre probly the quickest songs in my bands cover list. Hope you start crackin it soon man.

As an aside - Has anyone heard of Aussie punk band Frenzal Rhomb? Thier drummer Gordy is a complete MACHINE.

[aahznightsky]

Another great thing to practice to is techno and drum n bass music. For both the drums are usually programmed by someone who doesn't know the typical limits of your average drummer ... practicing to some of this stuff will really get you thinking in some very unique ways. Its not punk music, but its another great thing to practice to and not a whole lotof people practice it (great for drum solos!)

[12step]

Thanks for all the awesome advice, I got a hold of those songs that Smoky_McPot and Johnny_Stacks and I'm going to work on them now.

I also looked at the thread that is talking about the Moeller technique, I'm still not really sure what it is but hopefully I'll find out more.

Also this is the song that I've been working on playing(http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3NWLLBN960R1J0JPM79SAFGAZU), I still can't seem to figure out the intro part, and the beat he plays with the toms in the middle is confusing me.

[jonescrusher]

I disagree with Aahznightsky when he says that figuring out punk and emo largely does not require outside help. I would say punk and emo can be some of the most demanding styles to play for a drummer; punk requires excellent stamina and therefore good hand technique to last the gig. Drummers that i was familiar from bands like Mad Caddies and Voodoo Glow Skulls were incredible.
Again, emo requires good technique for both chops and holding down solid and often very quick grooves. Drummers from bands like Red Animal War and Biffy Clyro sound like they really keep up with their rudiments. Oh, and Zach Hill from Hella (part emo) is probably the greatest young drummer on Earth at the moment, both technically and musically.

[Smoky_McPot]

Thanks for all the awesome advice, I got a hold of those songs that Smoky_McPot and Johnny_Stacks and I'm going to work on them now.

I also looked at the thread that is talking about the Moeller technique, I'm still not really sure what it is but hopefully I'll find out more.

Also this is the song that I've been working on playing(http://s51.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3NWLLBN960R1J0JPM79SAFGAZU), I still can't seem to figure out the intro part, and the beat he plays with the toms in the middle is confusing me.

That link didnt work for me, if it is just the one song under 10 meg, you can upload it straight into your post! Just go Manage Attachments, just under the Submit button. I would like to help you out.

[nolensvolens]

I believe that no matter what the genre or style, good drumming requires that you fit the song. Everyone knows this, for styles like Punk/Emo depending on the song, it can be just as hard or harder than any metal song. Not as likely but the possibilty is there, that a song of these genres can be just as demanding. Now as for Punk, Id say listen to early Blink 182, this has been offered already but I agree this is really your best bet. Try and keep up and maybe practice some jazz to speed up your fills, and yes My Chemical Romance as well will help speed up your feet on even the simplest of songs. As for Emo, just combine Punk and a normal Rock type styling, and just again use what you know to best fit the song. Not alot of Emo, really has anything different from most genres, and most Emo is classified that way due to the look, or lyrics, not so much the drumming style, but just listen around to different bands. Early November, Modest Mouse is a good one, really nice beats that arent always what you would think to do, but work perfectly. Bloc Party will really speed you up, that guy is nuts. But either way, listen to what other drummers of similar music style do, and just follow along, and youll get it in no time.

[aahznightsky]

I disagree with Aahznightsky when he says that figuring out punk and emo largely does not require outside help. I would say punk and emo can be some of the most demanding styles to play for a drummer; punk requires excellent stamina and therefore good hand technique to last the gig.



I said that figuring out the drum parts doesn't really require external help.

The parts can require speed and stamina to pull things off but what is actually played is never decieving to the ears, at least I've never heard any crazy 13/12 punk beats filled with metric modulations and ostinatos in other time signatures.

And then right afterwards I suggested learning good technique from someone! Please read my posts more carefully before choosing to disagree with me. Punk and emo requires alot of energy and stamina that is very true. And technique is extremely important unless you want to waste a whole bunch of that energy. Unfortunately I see so many punk drummers wasting theyre energy because of that. So we'll see....

[patcityrockers]

What are yall trying to tell this guy? Look dude if you want to listen to a solid PUNK ROCK drummer listen to Bad Religions drummer on their Stranger Than Fiction album.

[jonescrusher]

Aahznightsky - i'm a little surprised that you seem to have taken some exception to my disagreeing with you, given that the nature of a discussion forum is to put forward differing points of view.
Indeed, i read your previous post carefully, and subsequently challenged your notion that a lot of punk and emo drum parts can be picked up by listening alone, without the aid of a teacher or more experienced drummer. IMO, specifically in a good number of emo style bands i have heard, the drum parts are at times exceptionally challenging and well developed, e.g Red Animal War, Biffy Clyro, Hella, and i dare say beyond the capabilities of the majority of drummers on this forum, me included.

I suppose my point is, the drum parts of much punk and emo should not be underestimated, even though the musical accompaniment can (IMO) so often sound simple, even immature.
If you wanna get good at these styles, listening to recordings is invaluable, as is sound physical technique and rudimental ability which should be acheived under the surpervision of a good teacher.

[12step]

What are yall trying to tell this guy? Look dude if you want to listen to a solid PUNK ROCK drummer listen to Bad Religions drummer on their Stranger Than Fiction album.

I'm familiar with BR, and it really isn't the sound I'm looking for.

@JonesCrusher: You seem to be the one that is more in tune to the sound I'm getting at, any and all tips would be appreciated.

I attached one of the songs I'm working on.


I have a pratice pad and some metal sticks from when I first started playing, think i should break em out to work on speed/stamina?

Any tips on excersizes would be awesome as well.

[Jaymasta]

Here you go 12step this is a great Punk drummer the beat is good to and an awsome band The Casualties. It Isn't Emo but It's punk.....

[Jaymasta]

And I don't think you would call this punk but It has Punk drumming to it sorta.... Stevo32 does a really good job on this song He's a great drummer I'm not a Sum 41 Fan but this song is pretty good! The Chorus Is very CATCHY!!!!!!!! You guys might get this song stuck in your head if you listen to it because It's a very Catchy song.

[jonescrusher]

12 Step- just listened to the track u attached. At first i understood your post to mean that was your band, if so excellent work, but i think you mean you are trying to play the drums on that track. lol. Definitely using the practice pad religiously to improve the power and speed of your stokes is the way to playing that kind of drum track.

Not sure about the metal stick idea. I think there's a thread somewhere here about metal sticks. IMO, they probably do work to improve strength and endurance but only if your wrist and finger technique is totally correct; they could do more damage otherwise. I've got skinny wrists, i don't think i'd risk it.

[12step]

12 Step- just listened to the track u attached. At first i understood your post to mean that was your band, if so excellent work, but i think you mean you are trying to play the drums on that track. lol. Definitely using the practice pad religiously to improve the power and speed of your stokes is the way to playing that kind of drum track.

Not sure about the metal stick idea. I think there's a thread somewhere here about metal sticks. IMO, they probably do work to improve strength and endurance but only if your wrist and finger technique is totally correct; they could do more damage otherwise. I've got skinny wrists, i don't think i'd risk it.

i also have skinny wrists, I think i'm just going to make it a point of working my strokes every night for a while on the pad.

If you could give me an idea of how the drummer does that tom beat after the first chorus i would be psyched.

The intro is bothering me too.

[patcityrockers]

Jaymasta I'm impressed! I didnt think anybody on this forum would know about the casualties. I have been a fan of this band for a long time(There is actually a picture of me in one of their cds) the drummer and the band fer that matter has greatly improved musically over time.

[jonescrusher]

The drumming on that rufio track reminded me of the kind of stuff my first band did, we were more skacore, man i used to struggle nailing those hardcore beats. I used to use the quick two stroke roll on the kick drum, double speed John Bonham. The Rufio drummer uses it well, definitely one to get down, really seems to impress people (it did at my school anyway)

As for the intro and post chorus, what are you struggling with particularly: syncopation, speed?

[Jaymasta]

Jaymasta I'm impressed! I didnt think anybody on this forum would know about the casualties. I have been a fan of this band for a long time(There is actually a picture of me in one of their cds) the drummer and the band fer that matter has greatly improved musically over time.
Good to know someone likes them I didn't think anyone would know about them either! I like their new stuff but their earlier stuff was better.

[12step]

The drumming on that rufio track reminded me of the kind of stuff my first band did, we were more skacore, man i used to struggle nailing those hardcore beats. I used to use the quick two stroke roll on the kick drum, double speed John Bonham. The Rufio drummer uses it well, definitely one to get down, really seems to impress people (it did at my school anyway)

As for the intro and post chorus, what are you struggling with particularly: syncopation, speed?

I just can't really tell what he is doing, the intro I figured out but the post chorus is still confusing me as to what he's actually doing.

[pocketCG]

12step -- looks like no one quite got back to answering your question about that track. From my own experience, that beat from the Rufio track can be done in two different ways, depending on the sound you are going for.

1) Ride 8th notes on the floor tom and play the normal groove. Obviously speed is a factor to getting this sounding the way it does on the recording. The fast rolls around the toms are done by bringing your left hand off the snare between back beat and using your high tom, playing 16th notes in between the steady 8th's on the floor.

2) Another option that many players use is taking the steady 8th notes pattern from the floor tom and alternate between tom and kick. IE: play steady 8th's using floor tom on the downbeats and the kick drum on the up's. This takes a little more work, but provides a pretty cool effect.

As far as learning the style, its the same as any other genre. Find people that you admire and play along with their records. Listen, shed, and learn.

Back to your original idea, its important to check out good drummers from all styles. Although some people don't give lots of credit to the whole pop/punk/emo/rock genre, there are still plenty of good players out there. Steve Jocz, who was mentioned below from SUM 41, is a monster, very clean, blindingly fast singles (great for his band's metal influence) and has worked hard to get that way. You can learn skills from everyone and apply it to pretty much every style. In fact, the guys who truely bring something original to the genre (see Travis below) are extremely gifted / studied in all sorts of music (he's majorly into drum corps and hip hop). Its not about playing punk/emo music, its about playing music.

If I can be so bold to recommend a few other players, check out:
1. Travis Barker (Blink 182's newest self titled album features some amazing drumming that no one can argue with, you can also hear him on most of the Black Eyed Peas "Elephunk").
2. Mike Marsh (tours with Dashboard Confessional, the guy just kills and has a great pocket).
3. Also check out bands like Mae ("The Everglow"), and Yellowcard ("Ocean Avenue") for other talented drummers.

I think Travis has said it best before, "I'm not a punk drummer, I'm just a drummer who happens to play in a punk band."

Hope this helps. Keep on rockin!

[el pollo diablo]

to add to the list.. i definitely recommend Mae as well. drummer is very solid and has the 'moderate double (single foot) bass' thing down well for the choruses. Reggie and the Full Effect's drummer pretty much has this down pat. he's also the drummer for The Get Up Kids. also, if you can find it.. The Impossibles (cd is called Enter/Return). And Shannon Larkin sessioned for Glassjaw's Worship/Tribute album. GREAT DRUMMER! For more technical 'dance-rock' grooves check out bands Minus the Bear or The Killers. and check out the guitarist in Hella! he plays drums for an 8-bit NES video game cover band call The Advantage.

as far as punk goes... eric sandin of nofx, the guy from.. A Global Threat i think.. very good. and that's all i can think of really. dont listen to punk anymore

[Spud Kelly]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Matt Kelly of the Dropkick Murphys. This guy is a good example of great punk drumming. Masterful snare work and a killer kick. Do
yourself a favor and check out http://www.dropkickmurphys.com

[PanamaRed]

Get a hold of Lagwagon's "Hoss" for some incredible punk drumming!

[moe.ron]

some of the best punk drumming i've heard is from bad brains he can actually play because they play some slower metal like songs

[math_metal_182]

I've never heard any crazy 13/12 punk beats filled with metric modulations and ostinatos in other time signatures.

Hehe, 'sum 41''s 'all filler no killer'. 2nd track has an intro in 7/4, 0:40 into the 12th track there is a passage featuring alternating bars of 4/4 and 6/4.

And dude, you don't want to even consider fathoming how complex Hella is...

[Paintballer]

Slow down, my friend. Although it is nice to see there is a fellow Rufio fan out there, I don't think you should step out there and go right to Countdown - unless you have prior experience in this sort of drumming. Mike is a very good drummer don't get me wrong, but it's like trying to go to college without school - you wont know what the hell you're doing without the basics.
I listen to pretty much the same you do I think, and I'm not as experienced as you (I don't think), so my advice might just be from a beginner's point of view. But right now, I'm learning Evil by Interpol and Reptila by the Strokes - and trying to drum to songs by Acceptance and The Academy Is... Maybe try starting out with easier songs, maybe even by Rufio (although most of their songs are at fast tempos), and build from there. Once you start practicing easier songs, when you get to a song like Countdown, the beats will seem more farmiliar.

[KevlarMittens]

Hey, ummm if you want to learn a really good and a more intermediate punk beat listen to some Derrick Plourde (Lagwagon), Eric Sandin (NoFX) and Derek Grant (Alkaline Trio). They all have somewhat of their on style and have greatly influenced me.

R.I.P Derrick Plourde!!!!!!

[WaFL]

Can somebody tell me how do you play / what technique you use for playing those fast punk-rock beats on the hihat or ride? I mean how do you play 8th notes @ 200 bpm or more and at the same time be completely relaxed? I can play up to 160, using normal wrist strokes (no fingers or anything), but I am pretty tense at that. Do I just need to practice more to gain speed and be relaxed or should I learn some special technique (moeller, open-close)? Enlighten me please :)

P.S. I've been drumming for 6 months now, and I am new to drummerworld :)

[meandhimcallitus]

Since when was Hella emo? *sigh* music is labled way too much...
just put punk/emo/screamo etc. music in Rock.

[mylkhead]

Since when was Hella emo? *sigh* music is labled way too much...
just put punk/emo/screamo etc. music in Rock.

Yeah Hella is definitely NOT emo. For one,most of their stuff is all instrumental and it's incredible fast and mathematical. I think it's inspiring for any drummer to listen to it.

A lot of the music I love requires this fast uptempo "giddyup" drums. From Punk to Polka to Bluegrass.

I'm a new drummer, but I've been making these beats for 7-8 years now electronically. Here's my rundown of the basic structure to playing pretty much any driving punk beat.

These should be played at at least 140 Bpm to sound right. Leave the hihat open slightly to get a fuller feel. For a more upbeat rhythm hit harder on the open hihat while you hit your snares.

I've been working to try to play these faster and faster. I am not there yet though.



Essential Punk / Bluegrass / Polka / March patterns
Best played at +140 BPM

#1
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o---o---o---o---|

#2
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o----o--o----o--|

#3
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o---oo--o---oo--|

#4
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o--o-o--o--o-o--|

#5
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o--o-o-oo----o--|

#6
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o--o-o--o---oo--|

#7
HH|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
SD|--o---o---o---o-|
BD|o--oo----o-oo---|



It's just a matter of practice I'm sure. Beat #2 will instantly give you a punk rock sound when played at at least 140 bpm. Play it at 160-200 for a more hardcore punk.

Anyone have any tips for coordinating your bass on those off beats like that? Especially playing #4 at a fast pace. It's hard to get coordinated.

But if I slow it down and keep trying to increase speed as I go along, I'm sure I'll get it. It's only a matter of time.