New kit idea

[gusty]

Ok, so, i need a kit upgrade. im kinda thinking 3005 or pro m or something similar, but they are a bit too expensive at the moment. then i had an idea to cut down on costs. i dont need a snare, since i already have a black panther. i only really need/want a four piece, since i was taught doing fills on a four piece anyway. to save money again, i want them in fusion sizes, so say a 10 or 12 tom and a 14 floor, since i have just purchased new heads (at quite a cost). do you think a) this is a good idea and b) if ill be able to save much money?(compared to buying a 5 piece, new heads, wateva) also wat kit i might look at buying (middle of the range i guess)?

[gusty]

anyone?
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[Mista Bob]

Whats your budget?



rollin on 20's yo

[gusty]

budget...well, nothing really, yet, but im 14 on the 15th of january, so ill be able to get a job at maccas, so im thinking, around 2000 aussie dollars, but if i cant get anything decent with that, then i have no problems saving a little longer.

2000 AUS = approx 1565 US or 800 pounds or about 1800 CAD (just for you)

[Mista Bob]

How much does the 5piece pro m/3005 cost? Just to give me an idea of how much more things cost there, so than I can help you out more accurately.

[gusty]

How much does the 5piece pro m/3005 cost? Just to give me an idea of how much more things cost there, so than I can help you out more accurately.

cant really remember, im going into my store today, but i think its around $2200 for a 5 piece. not sure if that also comes with hardware or stool or anything.

[Mista Bob]

And thats Aus dollars ofcourse right?

Well your idea definately makes sense.
I'd say there is no point getting a kit with a snare if you already have a good one.
As the snares that come with kits are usually rather bleh compared to the rest of the kit, or atleast in my experience they are.

The Pro-M or 3005 are good choices, great kits for the price, and the snares are not all that great on them in my opinion, which makes your idea even better.

edit: Actually just calculated it...
And a 5piece 22x18, 10x8,12x9,14x14 and 14x5.5 snare kit with hardware is cheaper than buying just a 22,10,12,14" drums.

So it may be a better idea to just get the kit with a snare.
Also, I dont know if you have the deal there, but Mapex has an offer where if you buy a drum kit you get a free BP snare with it.
I'd think they would have that offer there... You'll have to ask your drum store about it.

[gusty]

yes, important thing is that i get it in fusion sizes...if i can get a reasonable price without the snare, i think i might get a 5 piece...dunno, ill have a look this arfternoon, then ill think about how long it'll take to get the money.

[Mista Bob]

Dunno if you saw my post with my edit or not, but be sure to read it.

I really hate how Mapex is with pricing. It would be nice to be able to buy just a shell pack for cheaper.

[gusty]

just read your edit...makes me think different, it would be great to get another bp, one as a side snare...and i will need more stands in the future...mmm ill check it out today.

if i had a choice, which would be better? pro m or 3005?

[Mista Bob]

Both kits are actually made in the exact same factory, believe it or not. They are very similar.
I've never had the opportunity to try them side by side, but I imagine they sound similar. Main differences would be sizes, hardware, and finishes.
So I'd personally just go with whichever one has the finish and hardware you like more.


I went to a Will Calhoun clinic, he used a Pro M kit and it just sounded amazing.
So these kits are definately capable of sounding great, just takes some tuning and new heads (although they still sound just fine with stock heads).

He used a kit a bit bigger than what your looking at though. ;p
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v137/mistabob/willkit.jpg

[gusty]

really? ok thanks, one question regarding all kits- does the way they are made/what hey are made out of affect a) how much snare buzz you get and b) how much susstain the toms have? or is that the heads that change that?

[Mista Bob]

Snare buzz is all dependent on the tuning of the snare and/or toms.
Although I imagine a really crud or damaged snare wire could cause un-wanted buzzing.

And regarding sustain...
The wood, shell configuration (# of plies, reinforcement rings and thickness) and hardware will effect that and the general sound that you would get out of the drum.
For example...
A thick shell wont have as much resonance as a thin shell.
Diecast hoops will cut down on resonance/sustain compared to flanged hoops.
Then ofcourse the wood affects it in many different ways, some woods will have more sustain than others, plus many other differences that all woods have.
You can read the details on the differences in woods here, plus alot of other usefull info.
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id14.html
And this page is also usefull from that site regarding this subject. http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id13.html

And then heads will make the biggest difference of all when it comes to sound.
Much bigger than any difference you would notice between different woods.

[gusty]

Snare buzz is all dependent on the tuning of the snare and/or toms.
Although I imagine a really crud or damaged snare wire could cause un-wanted buzzing.

And regarding sustain...
The wood, shell configuration (# of plies, reinforcement rings and thickness) and hardware will effect that and the general sound that you would get out of the drum.
For example...
A thick shell wont have as much resonance as a thin shell.
Diecast hoops will cut down on resonance/sustain compared to flanged hoops.
Then ofcourse the wood affects it in many different ways, some woods will have more sustain than others, plus many other differences that all woods have.
You can read the details on the differences in woods here, plus alot of other usefull info.
http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id14.html
And this page is also usefull from that site regarding this subject. http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id13.html

And then heads will make the biggest difference of all when it comes to sound.
Much bigger than any difference you would notice between different woods.

thanks a lot for that :)

[gusty]

ok, so, i checked the store out, found a mapex mars 5 piece with stands and pedals which i can get for 1700 (i know the owner, and a few other guys in there), and also a gretch (sp?) catalina maple 6 piece for 2000 (usually 2200) with all the stands and pedals and stuff. im not completely happy with the choice of just two, so im going to have another look tomorrow, bring a note pad or something and write stuff down about some more kits. both in fusion sizes, 10 12 and 14 for the mapex, 10 12 14 16 for the gretch, so ill need an extra head.

also with my idea...sounds great on paper, but its cheaper to just buy the whole lot. also, i can use the snare i get as a side snare.

[Mista Bob]

I'd stick with the 3005 unless you find a real good deal on something better.
And did you ask if they have the free BP side snare deal there? Because its possible they may not.

[gusty]

I'd stick with the 3005 unless you find a real good deal on something better.
And did you ask if they have the free BP side snare deal there? Because its possible they may not.

there was a 3005 there (in a pretty bad finish IMO, bright blue sparkle) 10, 12, 16 for 2200 (i could get for 2000), the mars and catalina no good?

[Mista Bob]

The Mars kit is, I believe... basically an all basswood shell with just one outter ply of maple.
Not good.

The Catalina Maple... to be honest I cannot tell you much about it as I have never tried one in person.
But I do believe the Catalina is not quite up to par compared to the 3005.
I would still stick with the 3005, it is probably the best kit out of all mid-range kits.

Oh and I just noticed this... I do believe the snare that comes free with the Pro M* is the BP snare you have.
But still, you could always sell it.

[gusty]

The Mars kit is, I believe... basically an all basswood shell with just one outter ply of maple.
Not good.

The Catalina Maple... to be honest I cannot tell you much about it as I have never tried one in person.
But I do believe the Catalina is not quite up to par compared to the 3005.
I would still stick with the 3005, it is probably the best kit out of all mid-range kits.

thanks...the mars kit looks absolutely horrible. terrible finish.

well itll be a while until i get a kit anyway...probly a few months, but i kinda have something to aim for now.

[Mista Bob]

"Oh and I just noticed this... I do believe the snare that comes free with the Pro M* is the BP snare you have.
But still, you could always sell it."

Left the edit window open forgetting about it so I ended up adding that to my previous post way too late. But just thought I'd mention that.

[gusty]

thats with the mapex pro m isnt it? and not sure if they have the deal on...if i did get it then i could sell it or or could tune them differently...have one very ringy maybe...

[Mista Bob]

Er, yeah. Ha, I meant the Pro M.
Its getting late here. =p

[gusty]

Er, yeah. Ha, I meant the Pro M.
Its getting late here. =p

lol

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[gusty]

ok, so, i went into the store with a notepad...and found something i dearly want. anyway, i narrowed it down to these 5 kits...

5pc Sonor Force 3005, 10, 12, 16...$2000. Bad thing here is the 14" skin i bought...no use.

6pc Mapex M, 8,10,12,14...$1490.Value for money

6pc Gretsch Catalina Maple, 10,12,14,16...$2000

DTXpress III...$2070. This would be great for practise, since i get home late most nights, plus i could just play whenever i wanted.

This is the kit that i really want. 5pc Premier Artist Maple WITH AAX cymbal pack (crash hats ride). all of this is worth 5000 dollars. they've got it for 3000. its great value, but i think that they will have sold it before i have anywhere near enough money for it. i cant layby it since they have a 8 week layby period. just no way i can get the money within 8 weeks. and its a one off.

if i get say the mapex m...ill be happy, but probly not for too long, and then only a kit around the 3000 dollar mark would be much of an upgrade. so, id love the premier, but, its not really a possibility at the moment, so...which do you think i should get? i wouldnt mind the DTXpress for the practise anytime value, and i wouldnt mind gigging/recording with it either. not that im going to be doing any serious recording anytime soon. or gigging where having an aucoustic kit matters. wat do u think?


EDIT: dont know to much about e kits, this one has 2 crashes, a ride, all round, and the hats look like proper hats, the cymbals swing and stuff...yeah dont know if all the dtxpress iii's come with these or not...

[Mista Bob]

First of all... Mapex M?
I'm not sure if this is a cheaper model or just an older one... but it is definately not the same thing as the Pro M (the 'M' has thicker shells.. only difference I've been able to find).
Is it used?

I do believe the Premier Artist Maple is around the same level as the 3005/Pro-M.
Atleast around price it is. I dont have much experience with Premier drums as they are very rare here.
So, unless the AAX cymbal pack is worth the extra 1000, the Sonor or Mapex would be a better option I'd say.
And if it is... and you still really want it, can't you always just finance the kit there?

As for the elecronic kit... I've played on that one before and it really is not that great.
Yes the it does have some advantages, but after awhile I'd think you would grow tired of it.
Or atleast I would anyways.
'Lowest' I'd go for an electronic kit is the Yamaha DTXTREME I I S.
Its an amazing e-kit for the price, but still its probably alot more than your budget (its too much for my budget too ;p ).
Does the electronic kit look like this? http://www.massmusic.net/shop/images/18787.jpg
Only difference between that one and the regular DTX III is the 3 round cymbal pads and the hi-hats.

So best option I'd say is the Pro M/3005 or perhaps the Premier if, like I said, the AAX cymbal pack is really worth the extra money.

[gusty]

the premier kit is worth 3500, the cymbal pack worth 1500, so for 3000 it really is a great deal, and definately worth the money. the m series is (im quite sure) a step down from the pro m- they didnt have any pro m's though.

thats the same e kit.

the problem is, no matter what kit i choose, its going to take months to get it. oh well :(

[hauk]

i'd say 3005. i believe the Ms are birch, vs maple Pro Ms and 3005s. not to say birch is worse, but i'd prefer maple. in fact, im considering 3005 for my next kit as well... waaaaaaay down the line hahaha
good luck

[gusty]

i'd say 3005. i believe the Ms are birch, vs maple Pro Ms and 3005s. not to say birch is worse, but i'd prefer maple. in fact, im considering 3005 for my next kit as well... waaaaaaay down the line hahaha
good luck

yes, Ms are birch, id much rather maple as well

[Mista Bob]

The M Birch is birch, the M is Maple.

[gusty]

The M Birch is birch, the M is Maple.

oh ok, ill check it out, but im pretty sure its an m, not m birch. so the m is better than the m birch?

[Mista Bob]

I still can't figure out exactly what the Mapex M is.
All I know its maple, and it has thicker shells than the Pro M.
Mapex also no longer makes it as far as I can tell.

So my guess would be the Pro M is an upgrade over this model.

[gusty]

yes, its a step down from the pro m (i guess, since the 'pro' bit) and im pretty sure they still make them.