Best kit for the price

[Celereon]

I'm looking at getting a new kit...soon...one day.
I've narrowed it down to 3 (I'm getting fusion sizes...more convenient and cheaper)

Here in Australia I feel that the prices of drumkits are vastly different to the USA.
Keeping prices in mind which is my best option?

Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage...all hardware no cymbals...$1199
Mapex M-Birch 6 piece kit (8,10,12 and 14) all hardware no cymbals...$1499
Mapex Pro-M 5 piece aHnC...$1649
This is all in Australian Dollars.
As a reference point, Pearl Export is $1199, ELX $1299 and EXR $1399. I personally don't like Pearl Exports though.

I am also considering a Ludwig Accent Custom Elite for $1199.

If you could give me some advice I'd greatly appreciate it. What kit is best for the money, sound, hardware, expansion, QC issues etc.
Oh and Sonor kits are out of the question...the Force 3005 being around $2199 and the 2005 being $1799!
Any others within the AUS$1000-1500 range as well?
Thanks
Celereon

[Celereon]

Anyone at all?
No Ideas?

[Jusstickinaround]

The Ludwig Accent Custom Elite has a snare and kick with ten lugs per side, classic lugs and they sound pretty darn good. That's my opnion.

[dingbat]

The conversion factor between US and Aussie dollars is roughly .80, meaning that for every US dollar, it is equal to 0.80 Aussie dollars. Compare prices with one of our US retailers, I will recommend www.massmusic.net for their excellent prices and service. Just by eye-balling the prices you are quoting, it looks like the Yamaha is about the same as US prices with hardware pack, the Pearl Exports are outrageously overpriced, and as far as the best bang for your money, compared to what we pay in the US (your price is a a few hundred more compared to US prices), it would have to be the Mapex Pro-M, assuming the kit comes with a hardware pack for that price quoted in Aussie dollars.

[Salicete]

I'll give you my opinion, but that is all it is, my opinion.

I like the Yamahas for the price. Mapex makes fine drums, I just prefer Yamaha.

I have seen a lot of positive comments on Yamaha drums here, and in fact, I can't recall any negative ones recently. That includes all of their lines, entry to pro-level.

Yamaha has some cool features that a lot of other companies copy like the omni-ball mounts, and they make some really nice finishes.

Mapex is fine, I just prefer the Yammies.

[Celereon]

I think what I will do is buy the Yamaha SCA for $1199, and use the $300+ I will have saved to buy myself some Evans EC2 and G1 heads for my toms, upgrade the heads on my snare (probably Evans again), and buy a Stagg Splash...I like the sound of those.

Thanks for your opinions, please keep them coming.

[dingbat]

I think what I will do is buy the Yamaha SCA for $1199, and use the $300+ I will have saved to buy myself some Evans EC2 and G1 heads for my toms, upgrade the heads on my snare (probably Evans again), and buy a Stagg Splash...I like the sound of those.

Thanks for your opinions, please keep them coming.

I would agree with your plan if you are sticking to a definite budget to buy other things to go with the kit, else if you can spend a little more, I would recommend the Mapex Pro-M because of the thin maple shell made with North American maple veneers.

[Fat Elvis]

I would agree with your plan if you are sticking to a definite budget to buy other things to go with the kit, else if you can spend a little more, I would recommend the Mapex Pro-M because of the thin maple shell made with North American maple veneers.

i would second the pro-M simply because they do offer their shells in the North American maple variety, which is far better than their asian counterparts.

[mikeybbdrummin]

I would also say Mapex Pro M or their M birch kit. I will have one of the two hopefully in the next 3-4 months. Studio version. Both come w/hardware from most places.

[Celereon]

Hm in that case I might save up for a couple more months and get the Mapex Pro-M. I'll see if I like the sound this weekend.
One question, is the hardware and mounting system on the Mapex Pro-M as sturdy and reliable and durable as the the Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage?
Thanks.
Celereon

[Algo]

mapex pro M or the ludwig accent cs elite custom(i have this drum), with any of them you will be happy xD, they are excellent drums

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Hm in that case I might save up for a couple more months and get the Mapex Pro-M. I'll see if I like the sound this weekend.
One question, is the hardware and mounting system on the Mapex Pro-M as sturdy and reliable and durable as the the Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage?
Thanks.
Celereon

The hardware on the Mapex is good, whereas the hardware on the Yamaha is excellent. Is it worth paying a lot more for? You decide. I'm an advocate of Yamaha, but I have little that would necessarily disuade you from the Mapex, they're very good kits.

[Drummer30]

I'm yet another one the Yamaha side but I've never heard the two side by side. My Stage Custom Nouveau has served its purpose with flying colours for over a year and I have nothing to complain about. Yamaha hardware it amazing (may in the motorcycle factory) and the drums are just as amazing. I doubt there is much to bad about the mapex, but the Yamaha is just, in my opinion that much better.

[Celereon]

The hardware on the Mapex is good, whereas the hardware on the Yamaha is excellent. Is it worth paying a lot more for? You decide.

The Yamaha is cheaper...
Either way I guess it's all about what sound I like more...
We'll see...

Anyone else?

[Celereon]

Hello again guys...
Just today I went out to try these drumkits out.
Decided I didn't need an extra tom, and after adding the cost of new skins for the extra tom, the M Birch came to ~$1600 anyway.
M Birch didn't sound very nice.

Pro M wasn't tuned well, but we fiddled around with it while playing the SCA...and came to the conclusion that the difference was slight enough that it wasn't worth an extra $450. Besides, new heads would make far more difference than the different woods ever would.

Stage Custom Bass drum sounded WAYYYYY AWESOME...with stock heads, just needed a bit of muffling.
Snare wasn't dry enough, but I'll be changing the skin and re-tuning it and everything...so hopefully we get it better.

In conclusion, considering price and sound quality, I think the Yamaha is indeed the best.

[drozzy]

I wouldn't dismiss the Sonor 3005. With a decent discount this could come in around your price range, as a 25 or 30 percent markdown would still leave a large profit for the music store.

[Celereon]

hey Drozzy

I did try the Sonor 3005. If I can get it for around $1650 I might consider it...but it'd take me longer to save up more.
And could I point you to this...kindly directed to me by someone on drummerworld forums.

http://www.drum.com.au/reviews/dec05.pdf

In that case I think Mapex Pro-M would be around the same as a Sonor 3005.
In which case it's not worth an extra $500
Besides I like Yamaha YESS mounting system :D

Thanks

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Hooray! Another YESS convertee. Nice and simple isn't it?

[Celereon]

I especially like the cymbal stand mounter on the back of the bass drum.
Love the bass drum sound...
Just change the heads and I reckon it'd rival the Mapex ones.
Now just what heads should I get...

[Celereon]

(Sighs) But then again I just realised, I'm still tempted to save up for another two months or so and get the Pro-M.
Especially because it is a better wood, and because the shells have a lifetime warranty.
BUT you guys please keep in mind that the Pro-M DOESN'T come with the black panther snare here in Australia...
soooo....(sighs again) hating to be annoying, but I still can't decide. I HAVE tried both, and both sound just as good, I reckon the Mapex looks nicer, the Yamaha mounting system is nicer, and (I presume) after the Mapex is tuned and I put on some Coated G2s it should sound fantastic...as good as or better than the Yamaha.

AND the Mapex is made in the same factory as the 'fabled' Sonor 3005.

So guys, again, I hate to be annoying, but uh please tell me what you think.

[Fardunda]

At the end of the day it is your money and you are the only one affected by the purchase. In my opinion the kits you are looking at are all good kits and will serve you well.

Personally, I am a fan of the 3005. I own one and compared them against the kits you have listed and found it to be the best value for money. Add to that the research I did proved that I could not find one dissatisfied customer or negative remark toward the 3005.

I too bough it in Australia and the prices you listed are RRP I believe. You should not pay more than $1750 for a 3005.

I hope this doesnt make things harder. But really in all honesty, Mapex, Yamaha and Sonor all make really good mid-level kits. I was willing to pay a little more for the maple shells, finish options and what I believed to be superior hardware.

Good luck.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Do yourself a favour and buy the Yamaha Stage Custom because that kit is unbeatable for the price. YESS mounting system is the greatest, the hardware and shells are all amazingly well built, just an amazing all round kit.

[gusty]

I too bough it in Australia and the prices you listed are RRP I believe. You should not pay more than $1750 for a 3005.


nope, the 3005 is $2199. im in the same situation, of what kit i want, probly ill go with the 3005 in fusion sizes. now all i need is the money...

[Celereon]

Yeah there's absolutely no way in the world that I'd pay an extra $1000 for a Sonor 3005...although admittedly it does sound very nice. I'd much rather take the Pro-M for $1649.

But then in America the Yamaha SCA would be more expensive than the M-Birch and only $50 cheaper than the Pro-M...so I guess if you compare it to America the Yamaha for 1199 is best.
Hm.
Hm.
And I STILL can't decide...
I guess I'll just play 'em all again next time I go into the city.
Cel

[gusty]

an extra 1000? but the 3005 is 2199 and pro m is 1649...thats 550 difference

[Celereon]

Oh no sorry, I meant $1000 more than the Yamaha...
Granted the Sonor is miles better...but not $1000 better (to my ears)...
I guess I'll go down there when I have the money and tune them all and see which one's the best. (They were horribly tuned)

[Fardunda]

Unless there has been a recent price hike then you wont pay more than $1800. I paid $1750 for mine and I could have got one for $1699 from Drum Power in Melbourne (they ship anywhere in Oz)

Ignore the price on the kit and deal with the sales guys.

The Yamaha is a great kit for the price absolutely.

[pcmckay]

I feel that maple shells are the way to go. I bought a set of the Ludwig Maple Classics and compared to DW, Pearl, Yamaha etc. they are really resonably priced for a high end kit. I haven't had any quality control issues, the kit is very solid and sounds great. You might be able to get a high end Ludwig in standard sizes for the same price as a medium grade Pearl, Yamaha. I would definately check it out.

[Celereon]

Lol I hope I'm not annoying you by continuing to ask for advice...
But I have heard rumours that the Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage line has been discontinued and only the Nouveau line is left.
Is this true?
Because I don't really like to pay an extra $120 for lugs that I don't feel are any more superior than the standard ones.
I'd probably want to add on a 16" tom later on, so in that case the M-Birch comes to mind with an extra tom. However, if I could get a Pro-M for $150 more and just get another tom separate a few months down, does the Pro-M shells, better hoops and hardware warrant the extra $300+?
Thanks again.
Cel

[rendezvous_drummer]

Your place jacked the price because of the lugs? That's sucks! My store had the same price fer both. I still think it's worth it though.

[Celereon]

^.^ Here in Australia things are vastly different from the USA. For example, the M-Birch is $250 more than the SCA...which sucks because I quite liked Mapex.

I don't really care whether I get Birch or Maple...so I was wondering

Is there any difference between the Sonor 2005 and 3005 apart from the fact that 2005 is birch and 3005 maple?
Thanks

[Jusstickinaround]

Anyone at all?
No Ideas?

Have you test driven the Ludwig kit? I was playing one at Sam Ash and it was pretty sweet. It's the only kit I've seen at that price range of $700 that has a ten lug snare and kick. I cranked up the snare and it sounded great, that's what I look for in a budget kit, any company can get the toms and kick to sound reasonable, but the snare is a different story. Having ten lugs per side really pushes your tuning range up, and being made of birch keeps the sound focused. If you haven't tried one I suggest you do so as soon as possible, besides it has classic lugs just like their high end classic maple kits, sweet.

[Celereon]

Have you test driven the Ludwig kit?

Well I have never heard of test driving drumkits, but no i have not tested the Ludwig. However my school has a Ludwig Accent Custom of some sort, and I will try it out when school reopens in a few weeks. (I just changed to music).
I suspect I will fall in love with it as it does look good, it is a good brand (I think, not sure about their beginner lines), and it will be tuned well with good skins on it.

But right now I am leaning towards a Mapex Pro-M, which is only $100 more than the M-Birch
Even though unfortunately it doesn't come with a BP snare...

[gusty]

Even though unfortunately it doesn't come with a BP snare...

yeah, and its a nice snare...i have it lol.

[Celereon]

Nice...
I wish it came free, but it doesn't.
Oh well at least the M-Birch comes with a free tom still.

[nickg]

Pro M -- but then i'm biased.

in the same respect i bought all new Yamaha stands and pedals!!

[Celereon]

OH MAN The Pro-M for $1649 is the older one with basswood in the shells.

So that's kinda out...the newer one from the other store is $1999, might be able to talk them down, but I can't guarantee that.

Basically I can't tell the difference between woods. I want the drumkit that sounds decent but will last me the longest.

Yamaha hardware is the best, but their Nouveau lugs are carbon fibre (?Plastic?) and their warranty is only 12 months.

Whereas Mapex warranty is lifetime-3 years depending on what parts, but their stands and mounts are less strong.

So right now these are my options:
Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage Nouveau $1299
Mapex M-Birch $1499-1599
Mapex Pro-M old version with basswood $1649
Mapex Pro-M new version $1999

[Fat Elvis]

So right now these are my options:
Yamaha Stage Custom Advantage Nouveau $1299
Mapex M-Birch $1499-1599
Mapex Pro-M old version with basswood $1649
Mapex Pro-M new version $1999

I would go with either the M Birch or the new Pro M. I hate those plastic lugs on the yamaha.

[Celereon]

Yeah I'll probably get the M-Birch with the extra tom.
The Pro-M doesn't get a free snare where I am, and $1999 is a bit above my budget...

[joey]

personally i woulod deffonatly go with the M-birch i own one and they are soo much better than people actually say they are n iv not heard one bad thing about them.

i cant say for ludwig never tried one.

but the yamaha if ur looking the one with the plastic lugs iv heard if you tune ur toms high u can thread the lugs n you cant use them soo M-Birch all the way hardware is good as well on the mapex.

[Celereon]

Right now I'm probably going to get the M-Birch for $1499...but I have heard that they're hard to tune especially since apparently they only have 6 lugs on the toms.

So should I save up another $300 or even another $700 and buy the Sonor 2005/3005 for 1799/2199?
Would it be worth it or would the difference be slight enough and I should just stick with the Mapex (with a longer warranty).
Thanks

[wnameth]

my votes for the yamaha, i thought i would hate the "new lugs" BUT i love them, make changing heads much quicker and they look awesome. sound on them is amazing, i have the stock heads tuned very well with a new bass drum head (EMAD) and my friend prefers them over his Pro M kit with evans G2's on it. DEFINITELY GO FOR YAMAHA, best hard ware and the tom mount is amazing, i never change the tom mount, i pack up my toms in separate bags then put my FT legs and tom mounting system in a container. When i take it out i just pop the toms on it and there always in the exact same position, with my pearl kit i always was setting them up slightly differently. you won't be sorry.

-Wes

[dingbat]

Right now I'm probably going to get the M-Birch for $1499...but I have heard that they're hard to tune especially since apparently they only have 6 lugs on the toms.

So should I save up another $300 or even another $700 and buy the Sonor 2005/3005 for 1799/2199?
Would it be worth it or would the difference be slight enough and I should just stick with the Mapex (with a longer warranty).
Thanks

6 lugs on which sized toms? Pretty standard on toms 10 - 13 inches in diameter (some companies use 6 on 8 inch toms, some 5, and others 4), on 14 inch and larger drums, 8 is a standard number of lugs, but sometimes 6 lugs are employed.

[Celereon]

I've heard (HEARD!) that they have 6 lugs all the way to their 16" toms.
Normally that doesn't bother me as I'm looking for 8,10,12,14 sizes, but if it's true it says a bit about their spenditure and cutting costs.

[Tyr]

Get the Pro Ms, I've heard both of them and I liked the Pro Ms alot better. Not only that, but how the hell did you guys get your Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau snares sounding good? My friends Yamaha snare sounds like one of those Sears catalogue ones, no matter how he tuned it/adjusted the snares/changed heads.

[rendezvous_drummer]

Get the Pro Ms, I've heard both of them and I liked the Pro Ms alot better. Not only that, but how the hell did you guys get your Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau snares sounding good? My friends Yamaha snare sounds like one of those Sears catalogue ones, no matter how he tuned it/adjusted the snares/changed heads.

I got mine sounding alright. Good crack to it, but I won't be keeping it. I'm looking to getting the Omar Hakim snare possibly.

[Jusstickinaround]

Guys get your head out of your collective ***** and stop pushing the Mapex or Yamaha's, I'm telling you the Ludwig Custom Accent Elite is the best kit in that price range. How can you argue with a ten lug snare and kick, as well as the finish on the drums look far better than any Yamahs Stage Custom or Mapex Pro-M. The drums sound as good as a lot of higher priced top of the line kits. I've seen the new line going for around $900, at least go check them out. Geez, Mapex....the drums may sound ok, but their finishes and lugs are a bit boreing.

[Celereon]

Hm I always thought the Ludwig Accents were an entry-level line.
I know the M-Birch and Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau are entry-intermediate, although many people might argue that the Yamaha is more like intermediate-semi-pro, and I wouldn't know.

The Sonors and the Pro-M are definitely intermediate-semi-pro, more like semi-pro in my opinion.

Right now I'm leaning towards Mapex with the large warranty, but my drum store (not the music retailer, yay), has the Ludwig cheap.

Anyone know what the warranty on the Ludwig is like, and has anyone encountered problems with it?

[Fardunda]

Celereon,

If you are genuinly intereted in going the Sonor route, go to the Drum Power website in Australia and have a look a the prices they are offering. As I said earlier $1799 and $2199 for the 2005 and 3005 repectively are RRP! Drum Power are offering the 5 Piece 3005 for $1649.

Otherwise, any of the other kits you are looking at are good, solid value for money kits.

[Jusstickinaround]

Hm I always thought the Ludwig Accents were an entry-level line.
I know the M-Birch and Yamaha Stage Custom Nouveau are entry-intermediate, although many people might argue that the Yamaha is more like intermediate-semi-pro, and I wouldn't know.

The Sonors and the Pro-M are definitely intermediate-semi-pro, more like semi-pro in my opinion.

Right now I'm leaning towards Mapex with the large warranty, but my drum store (not the music retailer, yay), has the Ludwig cheap.

Anyone know what the warranty on the Ludwig is like, and has anyone encountered problems with it?
Yes the Ludwig Accents are entry level, but the Ludwig Custom Accent Elites are considered semi-pro kits, just like the Yamaha Stage Custom and the Mapex Pro-m. Like I said before the Ludwig kit is the only one with a ten lug snare and kick, that would be a big deal to me if I were looking for a kit.

[Celereon]

Thanks for that fardunda very useful.

I think right now I'm either going to get a Sonor or a Ludwig.

I'd get a Yammie but I don't like the new lugs, and I don't want a discontinued line...because I will probably upgrade it later on.

Hm Fardunda any idea what's the postage on those kits?

[Fardunda]

I think I was quoted $70 bucks from Mel to Syd from memory.....which i thought was reasonable considering it comes in two decent sized heavy boxes.

[Fat Elvis]

Guys get your head out of your collective ***** and stop pushing the Mapex or Yamaha's, I'm telling you the Ludwig Custom Accent Elite is the best kit in that price range. How can you argue with a ten lug snare and kick, as well as the finish on the drums look far better than any Yamahs Stage Custom or Mapex Pro-M. The drums sound as good as a lot of higher priced top of the line kits. I've seen the new line going for around $900, at least go check them out. Geez, Mapex....the drums may sound ok, but their finishes and lugs are a bit boreing.

im sorry, but i completely disagree with your 10 lug logic. While 10 is better than 8, it is FAR less important than other factors (wood, place of origin of wood, bearing edges, shell construction, hardware and lug quality, etc).

An example is: my kick drum on my Tama Starclassic is 8 lug -- and i doubt ANYONE would choose a Ludwig accent over it. Also, my Pork Pie Pig Lite snare is 8 lug, and the ludwig accent snare is laughable in comparison.

If you like the ludwig for other reasons, then get the ludwig. However if the only reason you are leaning towards it is because of this 10 lug argument, then do yourself a favor and get a better kit.

oh, and if memory serves, my sonor 3003 snare was a 10 lug, and it was without a doubt the crappiest snare i have ever had the displeasure to own.

EDIT: almost forgot, by DW kick is also 8 lug (20") -- enough said.

[dingbat]

... Geez, Mapex....the drums may sound ok, but their finishes and lugs are a bit boreing.

I don't know, I think the finishes from Mapex are pretty nice and the lugs are a clean design in simplicity. But you nailed the point, the drums sound good, which is what we hear when our eyes are closed and should probably be the most important thing when considering a drum purchase. I am not brand loyal by any means, I go with what I like from whatever company, and admittedly like to get good value for my money, and with that, I support your preference for the Ludwig Accent CS Elite series of drums (not the lower line plain jane Accent made of "select hardwoods"), as I have seen them in the flesh and tinkered and tuned them at my local independant drums shop. As you probably know, the finishes are very nicely done, from the wax stains to the transluscent lacquers, to the new glitter lacquer finishes. Birch shells a little on the thick side (but no more so than the Mapex M birch series) which are sanded smooth inside and outside (on the wax stain finished drums), tight seams where the plys meet, and from what I could tell true bearing edges, slightly thicker counter hoops than is the norm for the price range (2.0mm vs 1.6mm which is more the norm), very substantial and well insulated bass drum claws to prevent maring to the BD hoop which in themselves were pretty stout, RIMS style suspension on the toms. They tuned up well, and probably due to the nature of the wood and thickness of shell, promoted pitch higher in the sonic spectrum, but it was a good clear and cutting tone, not to be associated with weird finicky high frequency harmonics associated with very entry level "firewood" drums, I think this kit would excel in a jazz/bop type setting. Did not get to lay into the bassdrum, but from all accounts that I have read, it sounds like a monster when equipped with good quality heads. I'll give kudos to these drums, especially considering they are a kit with complete hardware package having one of the lowest prices in their class, but would not dismiss the other offerings being discussed. I read somewhere from a Ludwig interview that they searched out one of the best drum manufacturers in China to produce these kits, I would not be surprised if it is KHS/Mapex that are making them, like they do the Force Series for Sonor. But Fat Elvis did have a point in presenting the argument about number of lugs on a drum. It's great that we have so many options to choose from.

[Jusstickinaround]

im sorry, but i completely disagree with your 10 lug logic. While 10 is better than 8, it is FAR less important than other factors (wood, place of origin of wood, bearing edges, shell construction, hardware and lug quality, etc).

An example is: my kick drum on my Tama Starclassic is 8 lug -- and i doubt ANYONE would choose a Ludwig accent over it. Also, my Pork Pie Pig Lite snare is 8 lug, and the ludwig accent snare is laughable in comparison.

If you like the ludwig for other reasons, then get the ludwig. However if the only reason you are leaning towards it is because of this 10 lug argument, then do yourself a favor and get a better kit.

oh, and if memory serves, my sonor 3003 snare was a 10 lug, and it was without a doubt the crappiest snare i have ever had the displeasure to own.

EDIT: almost forgot, by DW kick is also 8 lug (20") -- enough said.

First off, your Starclassic and DW are 20" kicks, second you're talking about high end pricey kits to a lower costing semi-pro kit. Also, I'm sure your Pork Pie is a 13", and the Ludwig Accent Custom Elite snare is not the same as the Ludwig Accent snare, yes the regular Accents do stink. My point about having ten lugs is that they didn't cut cost using only eight lugs like most companies do on their semi pro kits, and yes it does make a difference in tuning, especially on the snare. The snares sound so good I going to eventually buy one, and I can get a new one for $100, that's a ten lug birch snare, enough said.

[Fat Elvis]

First off, your Starclassic and DW are 20" kicks, second you're talking about high end pricey kits to a lower costing semi-pro kit. Also, I'm sure your Pork Pie is a 13", and the Ludwig Accent Custom Elite snare is not the same as the Ludwig Accent snare, yes the regular Accents do stink. My point about having ten lugs is that they didn't cut cost using only eight lugs like most companies do on their semi pro kits, and yes it does make a difference in tuning, especially on the snare. The snares sounds so good I going to eventually buy one, and I can get a new one for $100, that's a ten lug birch snare, enough said.

you are almost correct -- my starclassic is a 22" -- for some reason, only this year did tama put 10 lugs on the 22" starclassic. Regardless, my point was that there is a lot of things one should consider when buying a kit -- and lug count should not be given as a relfection of the quality of the kit (i.e. sonor 3003 snare = junk). Of course that is not to say that the ludwig accent elite does not hold up in other areas (never played one) -- just make sure you cross all your t's and dot all your i's.

[Celereon]

Hm I just read the news on new finishes on the M-Birch and it looks very nice. I'm tempted to get it, but as I live in Aus it'd take quite a while for them to arrive.
So I think I'm still going with the Sonor 3005.
But I'll play 'em all again before I get it.

Please keep those opinions coming! Very helpful!
Thanks
Cel

[dingbat]

Thanks for that fardunda very useful.

I'd get a Yammie but I don't like the new lugs, and I don't want a discontinued line...because I will probably upgrade it later on...

Unfortunately, product lines are changed, updated and discontinued all the time, that's the nature of the biz. I wouldn't let that disuade you from getting a particular kit, as whatever you buy today, will eventually be discontinued some time in the future. You must be going a little mad right now trying to make a decision, isn't it great to have so many choices that make our heads swim!

[Celereon]

You must be going a little mad right now trying to make a decision, isn't it great to have so many choices that make our heads swim!

ROFL exactly...oy I can never decide.
It'll all come down to what they sound like I guess, I'll go and play all of them and see which one I like.

[Jusstickinaround]

you are almost correct -- my starclassic is a 22" -- for some reason, only this year did tama put 10 lugs on the 22" starclassic. Regardless, my point was that there is a lot of things one should consider when buying a kit -- and lug count should not be given as a relfection of the quality of the kit (i.e. sonor 3003 snare = junk). Of course that is not to say that the ludwig accent elite does not hold up in other areas (never played one) -- just make sure you cross all your t's and dot all your i's.

Your Starclassic 22" kick has eight lugs? Another reason I don't like Tama. Look, it's all cost cutting measures, higher end kits with 14" snares and 22" kicks all have ten lugs. You wouldn't buy a DW 14" snare or 22" kick with eight lugs, why would you buy a semi-pro kit with eight lugs when you can buy one of the same or better quality with ten lugs, if the amount of lugs doesn't make a difference then why bother putting ten lugs on any kit. Because it makes a huge difference in tuning, I've had eight lug snares, and I never liked a one. To name a few, I've had a Mapex eight lug aluminum Black Panther that I hated, a Ludwig 60's eight lug snare that was ok, but it just lacked that bite. To say it shouldn't even be considered when buying a kit is a bit naive.

[rendezvous_drummer]

As for the lugs on the yamaha, at first, I didn't think I would like them. After trying them out though, they proved to be much better than regular lugs that come on other kits (minus those pretty gold square lugs and chrome nouveau lugs). Head changes are much easier, and depending on which finish you go with, the lugs look cool (Look good on cranberry red, not so good on natural). They really aren't that bad man.

[Celereon]

As for the lugs on the yamaha, at first, I didn't think I would like them. After trying them out though, they proved to be much better than regular lugs that come on other kits (minus those pretty gold square lugs and chrome nouveau lugs). Head changes are much easier, and depending on which finish you go with, the lugs look cool (Look good on cranberry red, not so good on natural). They really aren't that bad man.

With all due respect, doesn't plastic lugs strip break and snap easier?
Or Composite Reinforced Fibre, whatever they are, aren't they far weaker than metal?

[superporpoise]

Your Starclassic 22" kick has eight lugs? Another reason I don't like Tama. Look, it's all cost cutting measures, higher end kits with 14" snares and 22" kicks all have ten lugs. You wouldn't buy a DW 14" snare or 22" kick with eight lugs, why would you buy a semi-pro kit with eight lugs when you can buy one of the same or better quality with ten lugs, if the amount of lugs doesn't make a difference then why bother putting ten lugs on any kit. Because it makes a huge difference in tuning, I've had eight lug snares, and I never liked a one. To name a few, I've had a Mapex eight lug aluminum Black Panther that I hated, a Ludwig 60's eight lug snare that was ok, but it just lacked that bite. To say it shouldn't even be considered when buying a kit is a bit naive.

I personally purchased my drums based on their sound, and while I looked at the lugs, if a kit sounds awesome I'm not going to turn it down just because I think the drum company tried to save some money. If the number of lugs make or break your drum-buying decision then that's fine with me, but it's my personal opinion that it's more important to consider sound/wood/ply/warranty/finish/hardware/etc. first.

[Fat Elvis]

Your Starclassic 22" kick has eight lugs? Another reason I don't like Tama. Look, it's all cost cutting measures, higher end kits with 14" snares and 22" kicks all have ten lugs. You wouldn't buy a DW 14" snare or 22" kick with eight lugs, why would you buy a semi-pro kit with eight lugs when you can buy one of the same or better quality with ten lugs, if the amount of lugs doesn't make a difference then why bother putting ten lugs on any kit. Because it makes a huge difference in tuning, I've had eight lug snares, and I never liked a one. To name a few, I've had a Mapex eight lug aluminum Black Panther that I hated, a Ludwig 60's eight lug snare that was ok, but it just lacked that bite. To say it shouldn't even be considered when buying a kit is a bit naive.

i never said it should not be considered, however there are things that are more important to consider. Whether you personally like Tama or dont, the fact is the Starclassic is one of the best sounding, best finished and highest quality kits made. In comparison, I had a Sonor 3003 which waqs also finished well and had a very high quality of manufacturer -- however the sound of the kit could not hold a candle to my starclassic -- not the toms or the kick. I dont have a starclassic snare, so i cant comment on that, however as i mentioned before, the sonor 3003 10 lug snare is horrid, to put it lightly.

In my opinion, lug count should be taken into consideration -- and all things being equal, more is better. However all things are not equal when it comes to comparring a starclassic with a ludwig accent elite or a sonor 3003, and thats what im getting at. Between two EQUAL kits -- made of the same wood from the same area of the world (because we all know that all "maple" is not maple), same quality, same finish options, same hardware, etc, then go for the kits with more lugs. However, to me (obviously) lug count comes AFTER wood, craftsmanship, quality and finishes. To say that it should come first is way nieve.

[dingbat]

With all due respect, doesn't plastic lugs strip break and snap easier?
Or Composite Reinforced Fibre, whatever they are, aren't they far weaker than metal?


I wouldn't think so, the composite fiber material the lugs are made of is very strong and resilient, that is the key difference, it really is not a "straight up plastic" that we all may associate with brittle household items such as plastic cups or toys made of plastic, or that portable cd player we just broke and cracked by dropping on the ground - think more along the lines of carbon fiber, very stong and light weight. These composite materials can resist stress more gracefully and will tend to "give" a little rather than suddenly snap/crack when put under the gun, while steel, depending on the grade and tensil strength, can snap suddenly after reaching a certain threshold. The inserts that the tension rods screw into are still metal, they are just encased in a composite fiber material that composes the outer casing of the lug. We are considering head tensions for a drumset, not marching/field drums that are cranked up to insanely high tensions levels, but even then, they employ lots of synthetic materials without incident, such as kevlar heads, which stand up to enormous pressures and friction. Yamaha is a smart company with tons of R and D in their background, and design and build all sorts of things from outboard motors, to motorcycles that have to withstand the rigors of heat, the elements, high pressures and high stress, and everything in between. I'm sure that research and development is shared and trickles down across all sections of the company, from said machinery to musical instruments if it is beneficial. Matter of fact, my RMV's have fiber composite lugs, I took one off out of curiosity to inspect it and can vouch that they are tough as hell. Don't let synthetic material be a block to your decision, whatever you decide to buy, material science and engineering has progressed quite far.

[rendezvous_drummer]

With all due respect, doesn't plastic lugs strip break and snap easier?
Or Composite Reinforced Fibre, whatever they are, aren't they far weaker than metal?

Not these ones. Yamaha is known for the quality in their craftsmanship. You can be well assured that these lugs are fine.

[Ozzy Biz]

Celereon, being a fellow Aussy I feel your drum-buying pain. The trick is to play your cards right. I always hang out for deals or sales before making big purchases. Drumtek, Billy Hydes, Drum City and any of those other big shops have sales pretty regularly; maybe up to four times a year. Shop around, don't be afraid to talk to the sales guys as I've never come across a shop where they won't sell below rrp. My advice is get some cash together, do some research (as you're doing now) and hang in until what you are after is on sale.

Biz

[PsYcHoTiC.DrUmMeR]

Well I have never heard of test driving drumkits, but no i have not tested the Ludwig. However my school has a Ludwig Accent Custom of some sort, and I will try it out when school reopens in a few weeks. (I just changed to music).
I suspect I will fall in love with it as it does look good, it is a good brand (I think, not sure about their beginner lines), and it will be tuned well with good skins on it.

But right now I am leaning towards a Mapex Pro-M, which is only $100 more than the M-Birch
Even though unfortunately it doesn't come with a BP snare...

Actually...you might be disappointed by the school ludwig.....And as i was telling you today, i would go for the Pro-M over the Yamaha stage custom...by the way, this is joz.

[Celereon]

Actually...you might be disappointed by the school ludwig.....And as i was telling you today, i would go for the Pro-M over the Yamaha stage custom...by the way, this is joz.

Yes I know ^.^
Hi Joz :D

I think in the end I will get a Mapex...an M-Birch if I can get it in 10 12 14 16 (free tom as the 10") or a Pro-M in 10 12 14 if I can't.