YOUR insights..."left-hand-lead" for the "right-handed" player

[JacobKaye]

Of course, Billy Cobham, thus far, has been the definitive shining example of a musician successfullly using this approach...taking it to an "unheard-of" level of proficiency.

All this being said, I do not claim any exclusive ownership, virtuosity, etc. (I've "dabbled" & found, there are many virtues to this approach)...however, even at an experiemtal level, it does require an element of perseverance & patience.

One response to the challenge... start a "new study" using, exclusively the Left Hand Lead. I happened to grab a copy of D. Garibaldi's "Future Sounds". Primarily, because the majority of his text, almost exclusively, involves hi-hat, bass drum & snare drum, this appears a good "jumping off" point for a study of this nature.

All willing... who have an opinion on this subject... please, feel free to offer any & all insights you may have experienced or observed usefull...or otherwise...

Video "Left hand Approach" (attached) for added clarifcation, where applicable.

Thank you,

[DrumMasterDave]

Yah the left hand lead drumming can be very beneficial. It opens up soo many doors that you can use! Im glad i learned my right hand first, as i think there is more benefits to this then left. But to know both is the best.

PS That guys Beard is Awesome!

[Deathmetalconga]

I have always played open (left hand on hihat/ride, right hand on snare).

I am right-handed and I think it is advantageous to have the dominant hand playing snare, which usually requires more dexterity than ride/hats. Not to mention that it's just more comfortable and natural to not cross the hands. I have never found my left arm wanting in strength and stamina - indeed, not crossing the limbs allows me to play longer and avoid twisting stresses on the joints.

However, if you have already learned to play crossed, it is probably not worth the time and effort to lean open style - unless you are shooting for ambidexterity, which is a separate skill in itself that offers a whole new world of benefits.

www.terrasonus.com

[mr_hayward_99]

thinking about it your right side normally (if right handed) deals with the basic stuff ie ostinato while your left hand does the more creative things on the snare drum

[centralzeke]

Really cool video!

I think the hardest part about left hand lead is dealing with how you grip because you're not used to playing continuously with the left hand like that.. I'm hoping you just do it long enough and your body will take care of it?

[JacobKaye]

Yah the left hand lead drumming can be very beneficial. It opens up soo many doors that you can use! Im glad i learned my right hand first, as i think there is more benefits to this then left. But to know both is the best.

PS That guys Beard is Awesome!


For sure, DMD...it enables us to open up our "independence" allowing a completely different approach of the creative side...

P.S. and thanx for the beard comment....

[JacobKaye]

I have always played open (left hand on hihat/ride, right hand on snare).

I am right-handed and I think it is advantageous to have the dominant hand playing snare, which usually requires more dexterity than ride/hats. Not to mention that it's just more comfortable and natural to not cross the hands. I have never found my left arm wanting in strength and stamina - indeed, not crossing the limbs allows me to play longer and avoid twisting stresses on the joints.

However, if you have already learned to play crossed, it is probably not worth the time and effort to lean open style - unless you are shooting for ambidexterity, which is a separate skill in itself that offers a whole new world of benefits.

www.terrasonus.com

Honesty D...conga, my "weapon-of-choice" is right-handed (traditional grip) but, having worked in Marching Percussion (matched grip) and doing the...shall we say, "louder styles" of music has expanded my "arsenal" of techniques. It seems, by adding the left-hand lead approach it's a natural progression....we'll see to what extent it'll be taken...little by little...it's all good....

[JacobKaye]

Really cool video!

hardest part left hand grip because you're not used to playing continuously with the left hand .. I'm hoping you just do it long enough and your body will take care of it?

Hey central zeke,

Funny thing is, in a sort of, superficial perusal of the video...it appears as the left hand does continuous playing...(true, for sure it is...) but, viewing the left hand again, in a more focused manner...it's using: "free-strokes", Moeller, "pull-outs" all in an effort to accent & phrase musically...interesting the way the left hand emulates the right even at this level...making for an easier execution of the "continuous left hand"....

Don't want to come off the the "answer man"...perhaps, it's having all the various techniques (first individually) and afterwhich, applying them to the particular pattern...in an effort to communicate your musical message with the least amount of effort...

[JacobKaye]

right side normally deals with basic stuff ie ostinato... left hand does more creative things

hello mr hayward,

Your right!

At the same time the "basic stuff" is, in fact, basic because it's usually the dominant "time-keeping" voice (even though, at time it's also subtle)...kind of a "passive-aggressive" thing...on the other hand (pun intended)... allowing the left hand to dominate moves our playing into the more creative ...

[Deathmetalconga]

Honesty D...conga, my "weapon-of-choice" is right-handed (traditional grip) but, having worked in Marching Percussion (matched grip) and doing the...shall we say, "louder styles" of music has expanded my "arsenal" of techniques. It seems, by adding the left-hand lead approach it's a natural progression....we'll see to what extent it'll be taken...little by little...it's all good....

Is the video in this thread also on your site? When I open it from the link on this thread, I just get audio in WMP. But my computer opens things on your site in QuickTime with audio and video. I would like to see how you are executing the rhythm and all I can do it hear it.

It is very impressive you can play open and crossed well. I looked at some more of your video clips on your site - man, you have more chops than a kung-fu flick!

www.terrasonus.com

[bdub]

I'm diggin' your grooves!!! Nice playing!

[h3r3tic]

Absolutly fantastic! I love your playing
You Rule!

[Jeff Almeyda]

Interesting. Last summer I worked through "Future Sounds" as well. I ran it with r and l lead as well as with a hh foot on the downbeats when possible. I have a 3 hi-hat setup for that ala Chester.

I found that the left hand lead sounded looser and felt more fun to play as well.The right was cleaner and "better" but the left had an undeniable greasiness that was way cool.

The future sounds stuff is also great for working on your pull-outs because of the 2 sound level concept. The ability to play a loud note directly after a soft one is key to this style. Totally a Moeller application.

Nowadays I use an open style. Ride and a hi hat on the right. Hi hat on the left.

[JacobKaye]

[QUOTE=Deathmetalconga;250428]Is the video in this thread also on your site? When I open it from the link on this thread, I just get audio in WMP. I would like to see how you are executing the rhythm and all I can do it hear it.

It is very impressive you can play open and crossed well. I looked at some more of your video clips on your site - man, you have more chops than a kung-fu flick!


Hey D...conga,

Yes, it's on the site...I've tried the link on this thread. It works (maybe I'm using a later version of Quicktime...I'm not really up to speed on these issues?)
If there is a way to play the video in slow motion, it's possible the "individual" techniques would be more precise.

And thank you for your most gracious compliment...

[JacobKaye]

I'm diggin' your grooves!!! Nice playing!

Thank you bdub,

Remember the actual grooves are from "Future Sounds" & vol 1 of the "Chester" books...However, I do appreciate the compliment

[JacobKaye]

Absolutly fantastic! I love your playing
You Rule!

Hello h3r3tic,

Thank you...you're very kind...

[JacobKaye]

Interesting. Last summer I worked through "Future Sounds" as well. I ran it with r and l lead as well as with a hh foot on the downbeats when possible. I have a 3 hi-hat setup for that ala Chester.

I found that the left hand lead sounded looser and felt more fun to play as well.The right was cleaner and "better" but the left had an undeniable greasiness that was way cool.

The future sounds stuff is also great for working on your pull-outs because of the 2 sound level concept. The ability to play a loud note directly after a soft one is key to this style. Totally a Moeller application.

Nowadays I use an open style. Ride and a hi hat on the right. Hi hat on the left.

Hello Jeff,

It seems obvious to me that you are much more absorbed with this approach than myself...honestly, this area of study, for me, is more a pass-time endevour...than a "forte" of focus...never the less, I can appreciate & agree with the points you've brought to view...totally. There have been times, though, when I've been undecided concerning changing directions of my current focus...but thus far, this still remains a venture....

I appreciate you insights!

[JacobKaye]

Hello to all,

This is an "easy" method for experimenting with the "Open-Hand" or Left Hand Lead for the naturally Right Handed Player ...

1) Become familar with Swiss Army Triplets and flam taps (1st example)
2) Accustom yourself to play these two rudiments, as in example 2, at first on the snare drum, only.
3) In order to more easily read this one measure pattern, example 3, uses metric diminution and also adds accents on beats 2 and 4. You may also want to, initially, play the bass drum on all four 1/4 note beats, until you get used to the phrasing.
* Note: the remaing right hand notes, if possible, should be practised "ghosted"
4) All that is left is to move your LEFT hand to your hi hat and, except for beats 2 and 4, all other right handed notes are executed on a cow bell. (placement of the instrument is best in close proxmity to the snare drum).
5) There are two bass drum variations...Suggestion not to invent any bass drum patterns are too "busy".

Finally, if this proves too extensive you can simply leave out all "ghosted" notes and play 2 and 4 with the hi hat pattern.

"Poetic Liscense" the hi hat rhythm sounds best with an "emphasis", not accents, on some of the notes and this will most probably evolve naturally.... for now "Go for it!"

[vadrum]

i think left hand lead playing adds a lot to your ability at the drums. this is a relatively simple idea to employ in order to increase your independence and break down limitations on the instrument. billy cobham has employed this technique for years and is a true example of its potential. having an open rh for backbeats w/ no limit on stick height creates the opportunity for a massive back beat. obviously its much easier to involve other colors in your patterns (toms, etc.) when you play this way vs having to cross over or under your opposite hand (although vinnie has shown that can work too). but most importantly i view it as a way to break down limitations on the drumset (just like turning your kit around backwards and practicing on a lh kit will break down limitations).

this is actually something im working on right now, playing lh lead on many of the songs that ive learned before (inc. "bump city"). outside of cobham there have been plenty of players to employ this technique inc. (the obvious) carter beauford, Michael Andrew Bordin (faith no more/ozzy), and dennis chambers (drum demigod).

even if you never intend to use the technique live, at the very least if youre bored and you want to take an old lesson and make it challenging again try to play it lh lead.

[wy yung]

Jacob, I don't really know what to advise. It seems pretty apparent that you know what to do in order to gain what you desire and you are aware of the applicational benefits this skill will offer. All I can say from my perspective of having done this, is that I simply did it. I just started playing that way. Later it proved a big help when I broke my right arm and was able to keep gigging and earning money with my left hand while the right was stuck in a sling.

Just go for it. You will nail this without a problem in the world. Or you will be able to teach it without a problem. (I cannot see your vid so don't know where it's at now)

I wont even bother with wishing you good luck. I doubt you'll need it.

So, enjoy.

[h3r3tic]

Yeah, open-handed realy rules, and yes, it does open a lot of new patterns.
But I'm not putting my ride on the left side.
I just maintained the cymbal setup, but I do play left hand lead on the hats ;)
Open-handed sure rulez!
And I was going to quit playing open-handed lolool stupid head I have :P

[Skitch]

I play both ways and one thing which I have not seen mentioned is that the left-hand lead actually allows you to breathe more freely as crossing you arms pinches your chest slightly!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Solaris]

I always play rudiments with right/left leads. If you only use your dominant hand as your leading hand when playing rudiments, your other hand tends to just follow along. However, playing them with your weaker hand leading I find both strengthens the hand and give you greater coordination. So when it comes to playing rolls (either singles or doubles) you get a far more even roll. With the general dominence in beats of one hand keeping time and the other on the back beat (playing approx. 25% less), it is really important to make sure that you focus more time during practice on your "back beat" hand, so to speak, or you'll end up with a 16th stroke roll that sounds more like an 8th note roll.

Lately I've been a bit lazy with my pad work and it's starting to show in my set playing. Time to crack out the left hand exercises :)

[Legacyrik]

Very nice, I was telling myself yesterday I was going to make an honest comitment to an amerdextrous approach to the drums. As a matter of fact I've been consistantly splitting time leading with left in my rudiments and yesterday for the first time I even made a point to leading all exercises with only the left hand. I've been trying to pay close attention to tying to make my left look like my right hand and it seems to be helping. baby steps though.

[mosher]

You notice the stick control book as lead ins with the right and the left

[wy yung]

I prefer to practice both left and right hand when performing practice. Joe Morello's master studies and master studies II offers exercises that help so that one hand is not necessarily stronger than the other. Whether one practices only leading with left or right, the result has a great chance to make one hand stronger than the other. So work on both. If one has to do 20 with the left to 10 with the right in order to get them even, fine. But practice both.

[Deathmetalconga]

I prefer to practice both left and right hand when performing practice. Joe Morello's master studies and master studies II offers exercises that help so that one hand is not necessarily stronger than the other. Whether one practices only leading with left or right, the result has a great chance to make one hand stronger than the other. So work on both. If one has to do 20 with the left to 10 with the right in order to get them even, fine. But practice both.

I think you are right that leading with the same hand will make it stronger. In some cases, however, that may be desirable. I am right handed but I play open, with left hand on snare and hihat. My left hand/arm have no trouble keeping up with my right and I think drumming has actually helped my left arm be as strong as my right.

That said, there is a tendency for people to confuse open-handed playing with ambidexterity, where either hand can do the work of the other. While I have always played open (it just seems natural and ergonomic) I do not have much ambidexterity, nor have I sought it out. I think ambidexterity will improve your overall playing, but given the amount of time I have available for music, I can only just focus on dominant-hand open style.

www.terrasonus.com

[Skynman]

I do not believe it makes any difference as long as you can play your rudiments correctly. But how do you use your ride cymbal? I have seen one of my friends play a right handed set left handed and had to move his ride to the left side too! So I think that it would be an advantage to use a left hand drive at times on the hi hat definately. But later on if you do not learn to drive right handed as well it could hold you back in a few areas! Study your rudiments and you will find left hand accents and drives playing the blues I use a lot of left drives at times then back to right hand drives.(Paradiddles etc.)

[JacobKaye]

(I cannot see your vid so don't know where it's at now)

Hello wy yung,

I see, via a quick perusal, there are several people who have a similar claim...
I had the same challenge attempting to view a newer 7.1.3 quickime- version on my earlier quicktime-version.... the solution I was to upgrade to the free 7.1 quicktime-version... No problems, since.

Or you can vist my site at: www.jacobkaye.com (http://www.jacobkaye.com/JacobKaye_InstructionalSamples.htm)and click on the video your interested in...
Or check out youtube.com/jacobkaye (http://www.youtube.com/jacobkaye)

[JacobKaye]

I do not believe it makes any difference as long as you can play your rudiments correctly. But how do you use your ride cymbal? I have seen one of my friends play a right handed set left handed and had to move his ride to the left side too! So I think that it would be an advantage to use a left hand drive at times on the hi hat definately. But later on if you do not learn to drive right handed as well it could hold you back in a few areas! Study your rudiments and you will find left hand accents and drives playing the blues I use a lot of left drives at times then back to right hand drives.(Paradiddles etc.)

Hello Skynman,

Let us address your first statement... development of "hand technique", whether one is espousing a Rudimental, Moeller Method, Free-Stroke (Gladstone), etc. approach, is quite different than development of "coordinated Independence". Therefore, for a Right Handed Drummer/ Musician to perform with a Left Hand lead approach is more in the realm of "independence" than "hand and/ or feet" techniques.

Secondly, the question at hand, that is, seeking opinions (because I, personally, view them as containing immense wisdom) concerning naturally Right Handed Drummers/ Musicians using a Left Hand Lead ... There are quite a few drummers/ musicians who are naturally Left Handed and use a right hand drum set. This is a valid observation yet, the challenges are quite different.

Finally, my primary Ride Cymbal is on my right side...

Thank you Skynman and all, thus far, for you input..

[secondXheartbeat]

Play along to Every time I Die songs.

The odd-time fills will challenge your ability to lead off the left, which makes me almost sure the drummer is a lefty on a right-handed set-up.

But overall, as a natural lefty who learned crossed hand right handed playing, I found that now I have decent level of skill playing with both hands, which is usually only limited by my set-up.

[Skynman]

Hello JacobKaye Ideally every drummer would like to play with both right and left handed leads on the drums! But.most of us have to pick from either right or left hand drum sets. So with this in mind the student has to start somewhere? I personally play right but I use a lot of left drives at times either on crash cymbals or tom toms and back into snare drum. I also am moving in to two hi hats on a seven piece pearl export series drumset. Playing a double bass drum set up or single bass drum set I really can not see an "advantage" either way left or right! Just a different way to learn to play the drums! How you play and how you set up your drums depends on the ability of the drummer him/herself! And how far they persue it after all you can only put so much on one side then you have to go to the other side if you want more to work with!

[PsYcHoTiC.DrUmMeR]

I probably should have played open handed when i first began, my left hand is stronger. But i play the "crossed-over" way... am also ambidextrous, that does have its advantages..and disadvantages. Some rudiments that i naturally should be good at with my strong hanf, i am better with using my weak hand..

[Wavelength]

I play both ways and one thing which I have not seen mentioned is that the left-hand lead actually allows you to breathe more freely as crossing you arms pinches your chest slightly!

Do you actually cross your arms when you play the hi-hat with your right hand? I find that my arm positions are almost identical (ie. openend up) no matter which hand plays the hi-hat. Sure, both forearms spread out a bit further when changing to "open mode", but even in the cross-over position my hands are a good 10 centimeters (4") apart. It's the sticks that do the crossing, not the hands -- or at least, that's how it should be.

[Skynman]

OK I have messed with this open handed style for over a week now and It has one advantage it makes your left arm for the right handed drummer stronger! But, now the disadvantage it makes my right hand weak on everything else! So, driving left handed helps improve your strength on your left and that is good but everything else it holds me back on because it is a right handed set up! I have a friend who plays open handed and it holds him back on my drum set which is a seven piece set up so I would say no plat left if your left handed and play right if your right handed! ps Phil Collins is left handed and he sets his drums up left handed!

[Deathmetalconga]

OK I have messed with this open handed style for over a week now and It has one advantage it makes your left arm for the right handed drummer stronger! But, now the disadvantage it makes my right hand weak on everything else! So, driving left handed helps improve your strength on your left and that is good but everything else it holds me back on because it is a right handed set up! I have a friend who plays open handed and it holds him back on my drum set which is a seven piece set up so I would say no plat left if your left handed and play right if your right handed! ps Phil Collins is left handed and he sets his drums up left handed!

In drums, there is no "left handed" or "right handed" orientation. I am right handed but play open (left hand on hihat and ride). Playing like this allows patterns that you could not otherwise do playing crossed. For example, put your ride cymbal close to your hihat, like it really should be, and you can get some amazingly funky rhythms going with your left hand playing ride/snare/hats and your right hand playing toms/percussion/snare.

To me, people who cross their hands to play are the ones who play left-handed. Crossed playing is awkward and even crossed players play open when they get a chance, because they put their ride cymbal on the right and not on the left.

[Skynman]

Deathmetalconga You are not going to get an arguement from me I see the advantage AT TIMES to play the hihat left handed! But, I play 2 floor toms and I am right handed. As far as hitting the snare drum from the hihats I DO USE both left and right sticking while doing thirty second note's on the hihats. Now as far as using the ride and hihats and snare drum at the same time like you mentioned I can and do the same thing as you do! What I was trying to point out is this playing the hihats left or open handed does improve my left hand strength! Now I do not cross my hands my hihat is set forward inbetween my snare and first bass drum mounted tom tom this allows me to move with ease from my hihats to whatever position or drum/cymbal I need to be at/on! I am looking at expanding my drum set and the only option I have now is on my left side! I play a seven piece pearl export 3 tom toms and 2 floor toms normally I just use it as a 6 piece leaving one tom tom off-small stage's around here! I want to put about 1or2 more drums on my left side and maybe another ride and crash cym. I already am using 4 crash cymbals with a ride and hats so I am trying to decide is all this really necessary or am I just trying to find out my max potential ability on how much stuff I can play on? I would love to get on an 18 piece drum set and give it a few hours of rock n roll! Maybe I am just a little bored? Or I am not getting enough challenging music anymore? Outgrown my drumset?Advancing? I'll let you know as soon as I figure it out! ?

[JacobKaye]

Hello to all,

My forte is more jazz than funk... And of course, traditional grip, however, found an interesting concept, which will prove better using "Open-Hand".
Applying the "Future Sounds" permuation of bass drum/ and ghosted snare notes ideas.
The attachment is the "bare-bones"...Remaining in 4/4 time...Two polyrhythms on hi-hat:
1) One using 3
2) Other using 5