Open/close technique

[Brandon Laliberte]

A technique I learned from Gordy Knudtson.
With a simple intro I put together for Gordys clip.
Check it out.........

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=874581796
©gk-music 2006

Gordys site:
www.gk-music.com/

[h3r3tic]

I´ve seen that video before dude and that´s a very cool one :)

[DrumMasterDave]

I have been using this technique for a long time now. When you can master it, you shoul dhave no troubles beating the WFD for single stroke roll. - and it wont look like your just vibrating.

[deltadrummer1]

I have been using this technique for a long time now. When you can master it, you shoul dhave no troubles beating the WFD for single stroke roll. - and it wont look like your just vibrating.

Really? It's a good technique to learn..how long did it take you to get it down

[TheRummer]

it is a great technique!...but,can someone explain the grip on the open and close positions detailed?I mean..how do we grip the drumsticks after it hit the drum and we take the open position?And how do we do the same thing when it hit the drum and take the close position?

[Rebige]

ahh man

awesome video

thanks for the post

[The Stig]

I take it you're referring to Derricks vid?

[h3r3tic]

it is a great technique!...but,can someone explain the grip on the open and close positions detailed?I mean..how do we grip the drumsticks after it hit the drum and we take the open position?And how do we do the same thing when it hit the drum and take the close position?

It's easy bro:

I think that this technique can be applied on any grip -> french, american and german
I use the german grip though.

So begin first with a free stroke, then let the stick rebound and catch the stick after the rebound. Then repeat ;)

A better explination would be downloading derrick pope's or tim waterson's video about the open/close technique... I strongly recomend that

[hauk]

basically what you do is do a normal wrist stroke, and let the stick rebound fully but keep your hand in the down position. then close your back fingers, pivoting the stick on your index finger/thumb and getting it to hit again, 2 hits from 1 wrist stroke. check out derrick's single stroke roll video and apply it to two hands (or just one)

[skinny]

Outstanding video
thanks for the ideas
i will try this right away
cool ideas for hand drums also

[mind_drummer]

I've seen that vid on PAISTE web site...

http://www.paiste.com/artists/videos/open_close_video.php

[dea]

Man, this guy knows what he's talking about. You can tell by the precision ( ...and I don't mean speed ) at which he executes this technique.

If you stop and reflect on all of the ways you can apply this technique around your kit - either implicitly, or explicitly - and one begins to realize just how general this skill is. ...Absolutely indispensible.

[davecherry1909]

Check out this other video about the Open/Close Technique. It's one of Gordy's student's, or so he says... Pretty cool vid as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_QOSvJJSo

[h3r3tic]

Check out this other video about the Open/Close Technique. It's one of Gordy's student's, or so he says... Pretty cool vid as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_QOSvJJSo

Yes, I've seen this one too! very cool! I've been using the open/close lots of things:
I even restarted practising this technique yesterday. It's extremly usefull. I find it cool for single-stroke rolls, hammer-blasts (hands play unison with the feet), 16th notes... I find it very usefull in drum n' bass (music style that I'm trying to play on the drums - so cool!) it gives a really nice feel.

Well you can use the open/close for everything I guess :D

[Vinnysimmo]

Very interesting stuff.

[druid]

this is like the push pull technique which I have been working on.

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

Here's a question that I've always had in the back of my mind: when do you use each technique?

There are a lot of different ways to move the stick: wrist only, wrist & fingers, fingers only, arm & wrist, open/close, etc - I'm just curious if people tend to find a favorite and stick with it, or do you use each one at a different point in your playing?

[h3r3tic]

Here's a question that I've always had in the back of my mind: when do you use each technique?

There are a lot of different ways to move the stick: wrist only, wrist & fingers, fingers only, arm & wrist, open/close, etc - I'm just curious if people tend to find a favorite and stick with it, or do you use each one at a different point in your playing?

Hey there!
Know what? that's a good question :D

Here's my view about how I use diferent things when drumming:
Well I've been drumming since I was 15. Now I'm 22 which means that's 7 years of drumming. But I felt that I just strated playing drums for 2 years because it was only 2 years ago that I've been exposed to tons of information about the basics of drumming... like how to hold a stick, using rebound, what is the fulcrum, using wrist, fingers, open/close, moeller, heel down, heel up, flatfoot, rudiments, time signatures, etc...

These are things that felped me a lot.. Before knowing these stuff I was just that drummer that used to say to himself "no pain no gain" which is in my opinion the drummer's worst quote enemy!...

So when I started to learn the free-stroke I sais to my self "well, drumming is all about wirsts"... until I learned using the freestroke with the fingers (bouncing the stick) so I said "man this looks cool, I think drumming doesn't requiere wrists at all" and then when I learned the moeller technique from Derrick Pope (EXCELENT VIDEO!!) I changed once again my view on drumming like "wow, I never thought that you could use your arm in a relaxed way to whip the sticks...I'm only going to use the moeller" and then on another video of Derrick Pope about the open/close technique (another EXCELENT VIDEO!!)
and I really was really impressed on this technique that once again with stupid thoughts I said "well, so long to moeller... I'm, going to stick only with the "O/C (open/close)"

What I want to say is that after all this exposure of rich information on drumming I asked myself some stuff and maybe these are the questions that most guys here questioned thereselves:

If we are going to use just wirsts for power, then how are we going to get faster but softer without using the fingers?

If we are to play softer with the fingers, then how can we play accented with unaccented notes without using the whipping motion or the open/close motion..

So which one is best for drumming in general?
NONE!! all of them are necessary!!

They are different tools for the job and you can't just rely on one!
When I want to play faster, I use the open/close technique and If I want to use accents, I use the open/close with the moeller (sounds weird but believe me it's possible).

Try to be musical with these tools.
One quote that I love is from Jojo Mayer and he said it on his DVD "technique without music, is just exercise"

Practise with these tools in a musical situation to make you feel happier with your drumming and NOT looking at your practise sessions as monotonical exercises. Ofcourse there are situations in which you have to practise a technique to get it down in a clean way by practising a lot on a pad for example untill you feel confortable with it.

So that when it comes to play a song you don't have to think "wrist or finger or moeller or O/C". just let it come natural.

And once again this is just MY view on drumming...
Hope this helps ;)

[aydee]

Kind of like the Moeller without the tap? Arms aren't very busy either..?

[h3r3tic]

Kind of like the Moeller without the tap? Arms aren't very busy either..?

yeah!a moeller without taps!:D the only thing I'm using from the moeller is the whip

I think if I'de had to give it I'de give it the opn/close whip :P but I only use the moeller whip with the open/close, onyl when I want to accent

[King Of Drums]

One thing that I've been wondering for a while....

On Jojo Mayer's dvd he says that the open close/push pull method is the fastest way to play with 1 hand. Therefore if you do it with both hands that means it's the fastest way to play. If this is so how come noone at the world's fastest drummer competition uses this technique?

[h3r3tic]

One thing that I've been wondering for a while....

On Jojo Mayer's dvd he says that the open close/push pull method is the fastest way to play with 1 hand. Therefore if you do it with both hands that means it's the fastest way to play. If this is so how come noone at the world's fastest drummer competition uses this technique?

Yes it is fast to play with one hand. And if you synchronize both hands with this technique... Yes you can get a really fast single-stroke roll almost effortless;) is becomes almost endless the benefits in which this technique can brig to you. I use it for blast-beats, rolls, the jazz swing pattern on the ride feels so natural using the open/close, shuffles sound and feel perfect, it can and should be applied to both german and french grip ;)

I was also blown by this technique when Jojo showed in his DVD to use this technique with flams, THAT WAS AMAZING!! so fast!

I really didn't want to know about the flam rudiments because I just couldn't put them in a musical context and I didn't felt confortable executing them, but when I saw Jojo's DVD... I'm loving the flam rudiment.. SO COOL! and yet challenging:D

I'm not that drummer that wants to know every sngle rudiment because if you know the basic ones:

-> Tap
-> Diddle
-> Flam

and them combine them with each other with diferent note values you can get the other rudiments without thinking about them...

You can you use this in almost everything you want to play with this technique!
enjoy!

[Therma lobsterdore]

Great video, is there anybody that does this with their feet using heel/toe or constant release or somesuch?

[SEVNT7]

Yes, I do. I apply every hand technique to my feet. Moeller, Freestroke, heel-down=(fingers), Heel-up=(wrists), Constant realease, Rudiments etc...videos to come soon.........T

[jeffpete2112]

SEVNT7 is exactly right. I'm Jeff Peterson, the guy in the video from earlier in the thread. The Heel/Toe technique in the feet is equivalent to the Open/Close in the hands. The heel slap down = open stroke, toe tap = fingers. Everything in theory should work exactly the same. The "Heel-Heel-Toe-Toe" sequence can get you great speed with minimal effort. Just as the "Open-Open-Cose-Close" sequence does with your hands. Check it out...

[rdb]

By the way, Gordy has a new book called "Morphing Doubles w/ Open/Close Technique." It shows how this technique can be used to play rudiments. It's not yet available on his website (http://www.gk-music.com/index.htm), but he has copies and sent me one last week. To me, open/close is a very natural motion, and the way Gordy uses it for rolls, ruffs, and other rudiments makes a lot of sense and helps make everything flow with a relaxed movement. I also have his previous book, "Single Stroke Rolls and the Open/Close technique," which is excellent, and the DVD that comes with it demonstrates everything very clearly. Great stuff!

-- Bobby

[shadowlorde]

Yes, I do. I apply every hand technique to my feet. Moeller, Freestroke, heel-down=(fingers), Heel-up=(wrists), Constant realease, Rudiments etc...videos to come soon.........T



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6hb0y2cU2M I already have a vid explaining constant release check it out .. tell me what you think of my explanation and I will watch yours when you are done

[jeffpete2112]

Speaking of Gordy's Morphing Doubles with Open/Close Technique book, he just came out with a new video demonstrating how to you the Open/Close Technique to create rudiments. Check it out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1n5ooJgalo

[Davo-London]

I thought this was about hi hats ...

Davo

[BigDinSD]

SEVNT7 is exactly right. I'm Jeff Peterson, the guy in the video from earlier in the thread. The Heel/Toe technique in the feet is equivalent to the Open/Close in the hands. The heel slap down = open stroke, toe tap = fingers. Everything in theory should work exactly the same. The "Heel-Heel-Toe-Toe" sequence can get you great speed with minimal effort. Just as the "Open-Open-Cose-Close" sequence does with your hands. Check it out...

Cool vid Jeff. I particularly like yours because you demonstrate it around the kit. Nice groove bro!

So the 1st hit guys is all wrist?

Great video, is there anybody that does this with their feet using heel/toe or constant release or somesuch?

I've been using this technique some, but doing it: RR LL RR LL RR LL. Sounds cleaner going RL RL RL RL. I've been working on Bass drum blast beats via heel toe and it definitely sounds cleaner going RL RL RL RL. It's been challenging combining the strokes as I had been doing RR LL RR LL. I agree, you get awesome pedal speed with minimal effort!