where the name Sabian comes from....

[timebandit]

I just heard the wierdest thing,

that the name "Sabian" actually stands for....Sally, Billy and Andy, is that wierd or what?

I guess it's the owners kids names.

It really kind of sucks, because here I am, thinking it's the name of some anceint cymbal slinging warrior from the far East........BUT NO....

Sa-----lly

Bi------lly

An----dy

Oh well!

[Synthetik]

I just heard the wierdest thing,

that the name "Sabian" actually stands for....Sally, Billy and Andy, is that wierd or what?

I guess it's the owners kids names.

It really kind of sucks, because here I am, thinking it's the name of some anceint cymbal slinging warrior from the far East........BUT NO....

Sa-----lly

Bi------lly

An----dy

Oh well!

Around 1200 AD, Turkish warriors were woefully under equipped with only 12" splash cymbals as sheilds. It wasn't until 1600 AD they started making Ride cymbals big enough to protect them against enemy arrows.

[Josh is a cult]

HAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAA
That one of the best things I've ever heard.

[Skitch]

I just heard the wierdest thing,

that the name "Sabian" actually stands for....Sally, Billy and Andy, is that wierd or what?

I guess it's the owners kids names.

It really kind of sucks, because here I am, thinking it's the name of some anceint cymbal slinging warrior from the far East........BUT NO....

Sa-----lly

Bi------lly

An----dy

Oh well!

Yes, this is true! And I met Billy Zildjian in 1983 when these were first being introduced in the US markets.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Around 1200 AD, Turkish warriors were woefully under equipped with only 12" splash cymbals as sheilds. It wasn't until 1600 AD they started making Ride cymbals big enough to protect them against enemy arrows.

So that is what an Earth ride is for? How did they manage to live 400 more years?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Drum-Head]

I just heard the wierdest thing,

that the name "Sabian" actually stands for....Sally, Billy and Andy, is that wierd or what?

I guess it's the owners kids names.

It really kind of sucks, because here I am, thinking it's the name of some anceint cymbal slinging warrior from the far East........BUT NO....

Sa-----lly

Bi------lly

An----dy

Oh well!

Like Skitch said, that is true. Why does it suck? Does it take away the quality of their products?

[timebandit]

Like Skitch said, that is true. Why does it suck? Does it take away the quality of their products?

No, not at all I think it's awsome. just a small bit of trivia I recently heard. The anceint warrior thing just would of been cool.

[timebandit]

Yes, this is true! And I met Billy Zildjian in 1983 when these were first being introduced in the US markets.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

So....your serious correct?

[DamoSyzygy]

Yes, this is true! And I met Billy Zildjian in 1983 when these were first being introduced in the US markets.
Billy is the only one I havent met yet!

I speak to Andy quite regularly via email and Bob (SaBiAn's father) is one of the funniest guys Ive met in a long time, and very hospitable. Seriously, you couldnt meet a nicer family!

http://members.westnet.com.au/petrilli/sabian/IMG_0391.jpg

Andy is on the far right, and Bob Zildjian is next to him.

[timebandit]

Awsome thanks! Maybe thats common Knowledge for most, I don't know, maybe I'd find alot more interesting things about the products I buy if i'd research a little more.

OH Well!

[maddrummr]

NOTICE this
Zildjian
Sabian


My name ends with ian. I am armenian JUST LIKE ZILDJIAN. Zildjian was armenian and sabian came from the zildjian family. Dont know the whole story about the names but this is probably a good start.

[mlehnertz]

I prefer to carry a gong into battle myself.

Around 1200 AD, Turkish warriors were woefully under equipped with only 12" splash cymbals as sheilds. It wasn't until 1600 AD they started making Ride cymbals big enough to protect them against enemy arrows.

[ross--]

Wait now let me get this straight, Bob (Zildian) is the owner of Sabian. Does this mean that it's all the same or what?

[PreppieNerd]

Wait now let me get this straight, Bob (Zildian) is the owner of Sabian. Does this mean that it's all the same or what?


Good question, I'm not sure about the specifics, they are both two seperate compinies, but sabian is owned by a member of the zildjian family.

[DamoSyzygy]

Wait now let me get this straight, Bob (Zildian) is the owner of Sabian. Does this mean that it's all the same or what?
As far as I recall, Andy is actually the President of Sabian now.

Zildjian originally had two factories. The Zilco factory in Canada used to make the cast cymbals for Zildjian. It later became the Sabian factory when the company split.

Of course, when you add 25 years to the equation, its obvious to see that the cymbal brands are very different in design, even though they both still use B20 as their favoured material for cast cymbals.

[GRUNTERSDAD]

If you read the family history there was a little rift. So the company split and Sabian was formed.

[Tom B.]

If you do a search for Zildjian and Sabian on Wikipedia, it says all of this. I actually knew this before because of this...

Here they are...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zildjian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabian_%28company%29

[Skitch]

I prefer to carry a gong into battle myself.

I'd prefer a General Dynamics minigun (like the Jesse Ventura carried in Predator) myself!

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Awsome thanks! Maybe thats common Knowledge for most, I don't know, maybe I'd find alot more interesting things about the products I buy if i'd research a little more.

OH Well!

Well, if you weren't on the scene back in the early 1980s, it isn't all that common knowledge. I know this because Billy was on a PR tour with Slingerland and an endorsee were presenting drum clinics all over the place, one of which was in my city! The Sabian group was trying to get the word out about their product and get some awareness going! In 1983, no one knew who this Sabian cymbal company was! Billy was very emphatic that they were (and still are) into doing custom work! It seemed as if overnight, Ed Shaughnessy and Liberty DeVito had switched to a different cymbal brand! But more than likely, Robert had a better repoire with these guys.

There was an interview with Robert Zildjian in Modern Drummer some years back (1996) where he discussed the family division just a little. I have a quote of his on my music stand which I read every day!


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[Skitch]

Wait now let me get this straight, Bob (Zildian) is the owner of Sabian. Does this mean that it's all the same or what?

The alloy and some of the models are the same. For instance, Zildjian has the Quick Beat Hi hats which are the Flat Hats in the Sabian brand. The only difference is that the Quick Beats have four holes in the bottom cymbal the Flat Hats have three holes in the bottom cymbal. Now, Zildjian retained the trademark names such as Quick Beat, New Beat, Earth Ride, Swish, Pang, Flat Top Ride and so forth. This meant that Sabian had to come with new names for their cymbals. This all occured about the time Zildjian began to market the "American K Zildjians". However, Sabian had, both, the AA and HH lines.

What was great about Sabian (and still is), is that if you want a hand-hammered pair of Quick Beats Hi hats, Sabian had them and Zildjian didn't. Sabian's alloy was the same and the cymbals were pretty much the same. Sabian couldn't call them Quick Beat Hi Hats. Moreover, a common, unknown drummer could and still can get Sabian to do some custom work.

The short answer to your question is a yes and a no. The Sabian AA line and the A Zildjian line are pretty much the same models. Whe you get to the HH versus K Zildjian lines comparison, it starts to get a little mirky. In fact, Sabian's HH line is actually hand-hammered. The K Zildjians are actually machine-hammered. As Paiste put it in one of their ads, why confuse the issue?

If I were to give the best answer I could, it would be that, No, they aren't exactly the same. While it sounds as though I am a Sabian fanatic, I am actually a Zildjian only guy. I did own a great Sabian Jo Jo Mayer Feirce Ride at one time (it had three rivets in it)!

Here is why I say this:


Sabian is a little more driven to offer more to the drummer than Zildjian, who seems to be resting on its laurels. Zildjian is ignoring that drummers are becoming more savy and they can't get by with some of the marketing crap they used to. One example of this is when they said that Art Blakey used a ride cymbal in his set-up when Art passed away 9 years before that model was ever introduced.
Sabian seems to be more customer service oriented. Just try to call Zildjian and get a true custom cymbal!
Sabian has introduced and offered more innovative models. I am not one for all of the "Signature" model gear, but Sabian has done an outstanding job. The two models which come to mind are the Evolution Crash cymbals and the Ed Shaughnessy Rock Ride. Do a side-by-side test with some A customs sometime if you can. The Evolutions are head and shoulders above the A customs. The Ed Shaughnessy Rock Ride (no longer produced) was to weigh within a specific range for the average drummer to get the same sound Ed's ride had! It is all about the details for Sabian!! The Paragons are different story as the seeem to have the same sound that Neil has used for decades. However, Neil seems to favor the difference, so maybe it is just me.
Zildjian seems to want to stand pat and not offer more choices. While I think that it is great that Zildjian has offered the Steve Gadd line, I have heard more horror stories about this line. It seems as if Zildjian is only trying to cash in on Steve's name instead of rolling up their sleeves and putting in the hard work and developing a solid line for one of the all-time greats!


I am sorry if I have rambled on too long, I just wanted to be clear that while many things are the same, the things which matter the most, currently, are not! Sabian is the "We try harder company" roight now and this is probably why some many drummers (including Terry Bozzio) have given them a chance.


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[DamoSyzygy]

Sabian is a little more driven to offer more to the drummer than Zildjian, who seems to be resting on its laurels.

As I remember it, THIS was the main reason the company split in the first place. Bob Zildjian wanted to try new things and take Zildjian into new territory, and Armand wanted to keep Zildjian as traditional as possibl, and not branch out. The argument split the family, and Bob took the Canadian factory, which was built there because of the abundance of fishing and hunting it provided!

[maddrummr]

[LIST]
Sabian is a little more driven to offer more to the drummer than Zildjian, who seems to be resting on its laurels


I see it as Zildjian like to have traditional means, and some drummers like traditional sound and such.
Sabian wants to be new and innovative, and some drummers also like that.

So its alot of personal choice in my opinion.

[mlehnertz]

And keep this in mind kids, unless you're endorsed by either company, nobody says that you can't mix and match brands.

Find a cymbal you like and buy it.

[tamadrummer132]

And keep this in mind kids, unless you're endorsed by either company, nobody says that you can't mix and match brands.

Find a cymbal you like and buy it.

exactly.

20 characters

[RudimentalDrummer]

Good one.....thanks for the info. Now I know how the Sabian Brand Name came about....very interesting.

Sa-----lly

Bi------lly

An----dy

[timebandit]

Thats a lot of info, Thanx Skitch!

Hey, I also checked out your website, pretty cool!

[Skitch]

I see it as Zildjian like to have traditional means, and some drummers like traditional sound and such.
Sabian wants to be new and innovative, and some drummers also like that.

So its alot of personal choice in my opinion.


With all due respect, this argument does not hold water. Mostly because in the time since the split, Zildjian introduced the A Custom line (in response to Paiste's Signature series), the Z line, the Z custom line, the K custom line and the FX series - and I may be forgeting a few here. And like I said in an earlier post, there is virtually no difference between the A Zildjian line and the Sabian AA line (or the K Zildjian line and the Sabian HH line) and therefore the "traditional means and traditional sound" means nothing.

Also, at the time of the split Zildjian had one major competitor in Paiste and a minor competitor in UFIP (who was being distributed by Gretsch) with lesser competitors like Krut and Camber. And this also way before Meinl, Bosphorus, Instanbul and Soultone were even thought of in America! If the argument of Bob wanting to move in a new direction is true, then he was extremely visionary! Maybe he saw that, because the foreign drummakers (Pearl, Yamaha, Tama) could dominate the US drum market in the 1980s, the same thing could happen in the cymbal market as well. Therefore, Zildjian could not afford to stand around and wait like Ludwig, Rogers, and Slingerland did! Zildjian had much going for them but Bob may have seen that the same old offering, even under the name of Zildjian, wasn't going to cut it in the future!



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw




However, I will grant you maddrummr, you are right in that is a personal choice

[fanagel]

so instead of working with his father and sisters on new concepts, he creates a rift in a centuries-old family business, and like a thief, leaves in the night with some hammers and a secret family recipe. I detest disloyalty.

[Skitch]

so instead of working with his father and sisters on new concepts, he creates a rift in a centuries-old family business, and like a thief, leaves in the night with some hammers and a secret family recipe. I detest disloyalty.

You can't be serious in making this kind of statement! Armand and Robert were brothers, I believe. I think that the way you put is a little dubious and not the way Robert operated. After all, his last name is Zildjian too, and after his dad (Armand's dad as well) passed away, I think that Robert had a stake in the company too. You may want to read the Modern Drummer Article in 1997. Robert helped build this Zildjian name, and helped build the relationships with people like Ed Shaughnessy and Liberty DeVito.



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw

[DamoSyzygy]

Correct.

And he didnt - The father died and the brothers/sisters came with him - After all, he did name Sabian after his kids.

ZIldjian had two factories, Bob had a stake in the business. You cant steal what you already own.

[my sacred music]

yah ive heard the story about sabain was formed when sally bill and andy broke away from zildjian and formed sabian. idk thats what i was told. that true or false?

[Skitch]

yah ive heard the story about sabain was formed when sally bill and andy broke away from zildjian and formed sabian. idk thats what i was told. that true or false?


Did you read this entire thread?


Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com


http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=drummermikemccraw