Paiste 602's?

[A thunder of Coxy]

Has anyone tried these out and what you think of em? I can buysome "14 medium hats for £169 in great condition but have not heard em yet. When it said 602 I instantly thought they must just be a step up from 502's which arent great is this true?

[crumbdrums]

Do you mean Formula 602? Those are amazing cymbals (discontinued though) and would be an absolute bargain at that price. I've never heard of plain 602's. Just the Formulas. You can get a great idea of what they sound like by listening to early Police work, Outlandos d' Armour (spelling?) and Reggeta d' Blanc.

[nickg]

Formula 602s are GREAT. they were THE Paiste line back in the late 50's and up through the late 60's when the Giant Beats and then the early 70's when the 2002s were introduced.

i totally kick my own rear for not buying a 22" ride and 14" heavy hi hats when a local music store had them on display back in the mid 90's.
MAJOR GRRRRR!!!!!!

but rumor has it that Paiste MAY be reintroducing the 602 line in the near future. i wouldn't be surprised if an announcement is made at NAMM but we'll just have to wait and see for sure.

[Ruok]

The 602s were my favorite line of Paiste cymbals. The medium hihats are rather mellow and thinner than you might expect though. So, if you want to get loud with these, then I would not recommend them, unless you can play them without bashing them. If you're a hard hitter, they will likely break.

Paiste described the medium hats in their 1979 catalog: "Medium weight cymbals with the bottom a little heavier and higher in pitch than the top. Chick sound of medium pitch with a soft, mellow feeling. Very responsive to stick work. Sensitive cymbals for soft playing."

Some people would describe the Paiste 602s in general as a slightly more clean and delicate sounding version of the A Zildjian line. The 602s are the B20 bronze as well.

[ellenvannin105]

I agree with everyone here: Formula 602s were the best line Paiste made aside from the 2002s. I also deserve a good kick for not buying any of 'em when I had the chance; nowadays they are just "eBay curios" going for obscene bid prices.I think I made the mistake of always regarding the 602s as being "jazz cymbals" and of me just being a "rock and roll guy" who automatically preferred the 2002s. And therefore,I let many a great buying opportunity pass. What an imbecile I was!

[Ruok]

Do you mean Formula 602? Those are amazing cymbals (discontinued though) and would be an absolute bargain at that price. I've never heard of plain 602's. Just the Formulas. You can get a great idea of what they sound like by listening to early Police work, Outlandos d' Armour (spelling?) and Reggeta d' Blanc.

Yeah. But I think Copeland was only using 602 hi-hats for the most part and maybe a 602 Paperthin or splash, and using other lines for his rides and crashes.

I love the sound of his hats on those early Police records. But I guess he switched to the 2oo2s on later albums somewhere along the line and I don't find them quite as pleasing as the 602 hats. (Even though I am a 2oo2 fanatic too).

[Ruok]

. What an imbecile I was!

I feel your pain!

As a 602 fanatic, after the 602s were discontinued, I kept my eyes open in the music stores and in want ads for used 602s. I've found a few really good 602 cymbals for very little money. Maybe you will be as fortunate as I was and some 602s might just find you someday. I walked into a small music store in Rhode Island one day and they had an old 18" 602 heavy in excellent condition. When I saw it, I almost couldn't believe it. I wasn't even looking for one at the time. So, expecting to see a huge price tag, I was shocked to see what they wanted. $85! I guess they didn't realize what they had.

[the skin man]

The 602s are the B20 bronze as well.

Yeah, I think they were one of the few Paiste cymbals that were cast bronze and not sheet bronze. I'm not sure, though.

[Goody602]

but rumor has it that Paiste MAY be reintroducing the 602 line in the near future. i wouldn't be surprised if an announcement is made at NAMM but we'll just have to wait and see for sure.

I'm curious about where you heard this because I've heard the opposite--that despite thousands of pleas from 602 enthusiasts like myself, Paiste has said they would never make them again. I hope you are right and they've changed their minds, because I think Formula 602's are the best cymbals Paiste has ever made.

[A thunder of Coxy]

Would anyone advise against me getting the medium 602's then? At one point I will be playing hard with them. Cheers

[Ruok]

I would buy them if I were you since it's such a great price, but then sell them to a 602 freak for more money : ). Then I would buy something more versatile and heavier....a pair that you wouldn't be afraid to hit hard when needed.

[nickg]

I'm curious about where you heard this because I've heard the opposite--that despite thousands of pleas from 602 enthusiasts like myself, Paiste has said they would never make them again. I hope you are right and they've changed their minds, because I think Formula 602's are the best cymbals Paiste has ever made.

just a rumor, as i mentioned, from here:

http://www.paiste-only.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=458

[crumbdrums]

but rumor has it that Paiste MAY be reintroducing the 602 line in the near future. i wouldn't be surprised if an announcement is made at NAMM but we'll just have to wait and see for sure.
Wouldn't that be sweet? I'd be in line to replace every cymbal on my kit, despite the fact that the 2002's on there right now sound great.

[radiofriendlyunitshifter]

why again did they discontinue them in the first place? were they getting their blanks

from an outside source that stopped making them? or did i just make that up...

i don't know much of anything about formula 602's, could some insight be shared as to why they're so desirable?

[KzSgDrummer]

Wasn't it because of the Signature line coming out? I know it was right around the same time (late 80s/ early 90s) as the 602s were being discontinued. Paiste was going through a whole image renewal thing at the time.. 404s, 505s, 2000 and 3000s, Sound Creations... they were all out in favor of Alpha, Sound Formula and Signature, plus the 302, 402, 502 (and eventually 802) lines. At that point there was no nostalgia towards the 602s or any old-school cymbal for that matter... A and Z Customs grabbed the attention of most drummers. And interest in older Ks was just barely starting to come about as a consumer demand to be reckoned with (Zildjian's first acknowledgment of such, their "pre-aged" K line, was introduced in 1991).

My firsthand experience with 602s is extremely limited, but what I've gotten from them is that they sounded like something between an A and a K... sort of hitting the sweet spot in between.

[heartbeat]

just a rumor, as i mentioned, from here:

http://www.paiste-only.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=458
I subscribe to Classic Drummer magazine where Dunnett wrote about his Paiste factory tour. He said, "Given the current market for vintage Sound Formula and 602 cymbals, it is quite conceivable that Paiste may at some point in the future re-release these lines."

Prior to that, I always heard that Paiste refused to bring them back. We shall see. And yes, they were discontinued primarily because the Signature alloy became popular.

[Ruok]

why again did they discontinue them in the first place? were they getting their blanks

from an outside source that stopped making them? or did i just make that up...

i don't know much of anything about formula 602's, could some insight be shared as to why they're so desirable?

I believe the main reason for stopping the 602s was they just weren't selling. And many of those that did buy them tended to overplay them and they would crack. The line was basically meant for mellow and lower volume music. In the 1980s, most drummers were looking for heavier and louder cymbals, so the demand and popularity dwindled for the 602s.

I find them desirable because they are very crystal-like and delicate sounding. They don't have a lot of overtones (although there are exceptions), so they come across as clean and pure and work great in the studio. If you have a light touch and want a clean, light, delicate and airy type of sound, 602s were the best, IMO.

[drummer_14_92]

my school has a 14" 602, it sounds a bit like this one splash cymbal i heard, its beat up, and sits in a cabinet but we use it sometimes

[A thunder of Coxy]

Stewart Copeland used medium 602's size 13" hats, he did hit hard and I love that sound. Think he could get away with this as he had the cash to get some new ones every night?

[Ruok]

Stewart Copeland used medium 602's size 13" hats, he did hit hard and I love that sound. Think he could get away with this as he had the cash to get some new ones every night?

That's a good question. I always wondered how often he would break his cymbals. I've seen a Paiste ad that showed his hats as 13" Heavy 602s and I have a Paiste RUDE pamphlet that states his hats were 13" 602 Mediums. I heard some speculations that he may have mostly used the Mediums in the studio (possibly played a little less intensely?) and the Heavies in live performances. But who really knows but the man himself?

I know a lot of rock drummers did use 602s such as Doug Clifford of CCR. John Bonham of Zep and Nick Mason of Pink Floyd supposedly used 15" 602 Sound Edge hi-hats at one time as well, (prior to the 2oo2s). Even though Bonham is known for his huge sound and played the 602 SEs, Paiste stated in its own 1979 catalog that the 602 Sound Edges (which are medium weight) are "not intended to be used by heavy players."

Though Copeland allegedly used the mediums, I would be very surprised if he did not break them often.