Doubles and Singles..

[PLaN-Z]

Hey guys, I'm new here and I would like to talk about doubles and singles..I have been playing drums for almost 2 years and i NEVER get any practice time in.. I would say an hour a week! I would say that I am pretty good for an hour a week but that is another story. I have decided to force myself to practice doubles and singles on a pillow for atleast 20 mins a day, but the reason I never want to practice is that I feel I won't get any faster.Any suggestions? Thanks.

[TitanSound]

but the reason I never want to practice is that I feel I won't get any faster.Any suggestions? Thanks.

I fail to see the logic in that....

How do you know if you do not try? I guarantee you if you practice singles for a month for at least 20 mins a day you WILL see an improvement. It may not be a massive improvement but it will be one none the less..

[foursticks]

Patience is always the answer.

So is...

Practise makes perfect.

[h3r3tic]

Hey guys, I'm new here and I would like to talk about doubles and singles..I have been playing drums for almost 2 years and i NEVER get any practice time in.. I would say an hour a week! I would say that I am pretty good for an hour a week but that is another story. I have decided to force myself to practice doubles and singles on a pillow for atleast 20 mins a day, but the reason I never want to practice is that I feel I won't get any faster.Any suggestions? Thanks.

I still can´t get it... how can you guys practise on a pillow if a pillow has no rebounds?

[PLaN-Z]

I still can´t get it... how can you guys practise on a pillow if a pillow has no rebounds?
Exactly!The pillow has no rebounds so that means you have to make the rebounds yourself, I have heard it helps on a pillow more so than a pad.

[voldak]

Yea...we used to have to practice on pillows in the marching band I was in. Needless to say, it has helped my doubles tremendously.

[jazzsnob]

PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT


If you're only practicing 20 min a day, you shouldn't do it on a pillow. Pillow practice can be helpful, but mainly as a small portion of technique work. If you have minimal practice time, work with a high rebound surface.

[h3r3tic]

Yea...we used to have to practice on pillows in the marching band I was in. Needless to say, it has helped my doubles tremendously.

But aren´t doubles supose to consist on rebounds?

[voldak]

see, that's a tough question for me. I can do doubles both ways (up to a certain speed). When i do it on a pillow, I do it with my fingers catching the rebound still in one wrist motion. But, when I get up to a certain speed I'm not good enough to continue to do that and I eventually just let it rebound. I've actually kind of been wondering which is way is the best to do the doubles (rebound only, or user fingers to help.)

I have seen some people say to help with doubles is to accent the rebound hit. The only way you could do that is to use the fingers or some other simliar method.

I'm going though the Stick Control book. The way i've been doing the doubles listed in there is with the help of my fingers to rebound not just the natural rebound.

Kinda weird to explain....let me know if that made any sense :)

[xizoesira]

PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT


If you're only practicing 20 min a day, you shouldn't do it on a pillow. Pillow practice can be helpful, but mainly as a small portion of technique work. If you have minimal practice time, work with a high rebound surface.

Right. You're not supposed to "make" rebound, you're supposed to control rebound; to learn to control rebound, you have to work with rebound.

I have seen some people say to help with doubles is to accent the rebound hit. The only way you could do that is to use the fingers or some other simliar method.

I would say that helps, because it gets your hands used to making that second hit count. However you need to be able to make both strokes in a double stroke sound even, as well, and to do that... practice even strokes! Aim for dynamic consistency.

[voldak]

Yea...my doubles are pretty easy. I've actually been practicing all of the Stick Control double exercises with natural even rebound and then the forced rebound with the fingers. It does help your doubles.

[jazzsnob]

The thing is, anything you can learn on pillows you can learn on a pad. It's less instant gratification because you might not get that BURN right away, but it doesn't mean it's not helping. Pillow practice can be good if it's a small perentage of practice time, but if you don't have the time, it's better to practice rebound. This has been talked about a ton, but this point isn't about if pillow practice is good, but if it's good for your practice routine.

[PLaN-Z]

So you guys are saying I should practice on a pad?When you guys were first starting doubles how long would you guys practice a day?

[jazzsnob]

Hour and hours, but that doesn't matter to you really. You just need to use the amount of time you have to spend as best you can.

[stefanos_product]

man i think you should practice some finger controlled doubles: first wrist,second fingers. however some guys play all wrist(until a certain speed). it's inevitable to play wrist- finger when you play fast doubles cause the rebound isnt enough from itself to keep the strokes the same(wrist-bounce)

[Vinnysimmo]

Hey guys, I'm new here and I would like to talk about doubles and singles..I have been playing drums for almost 2 years and i NEVER get any practice time in.. I would say an hour a week! I would say that I am pretty good for an hour a week but that is another story. I have decided to force myself to practice doubles and singles on a pillow for atleast 20 mins a day, but the reason I never want to practice is that I feel I won't get any faster.Any suggestions? Thanks.

My advice would be to do it on a pad rather than with pillows.

[Wile E. Coyote]

PERFECT PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT


If you're only practicing 20 min a day, you shouldn't do it on a pillow. Pillow practice can be helpful, but mainly as a small portion of technique work. If you have minimal practice time, work with a high rebound surface.

Yes.
Someone (don't remember who) said: If your playing on a pillow, practice on a pillow. If you're playing on a drum, plactice on a drum!

After some time, the problem with doubles (or triples or quadruples or whatever multiple stroke) is not the speed anymore. The problem is having them 100% under control all the time. Control over the dynamic and control over the subdivision. Don't practice on a pillow, you're forgetting the most important part: control. Speed is easy to achieve (at least it is with a bit more than 1 hour a week).

Good luck

[Sardaukar]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RXgxa7oMyac

There's the teqhnique that i use and it might be also the most common and effective one. I've been playing for 2 and a half years now and I can play very smooth doubles with that teqhnique, even on a loosely tentioned floor tom. A very good teqhnique there. I haven't practised on a pillow, I have practiced on my drum stool which gives me not that much rebound but it's not like a pillow either. I prefer that. In my opinion it's a good idea to practise also having the second stroke coming out louder.

[tak22thegoat]

The important thing is to slow things up and CLEAN UP your doubles. As people below have said already, accenting the second note helps a lot at slow speeds. If you practice at slow speeds, not only can you see what's going on, but it helps burn the PROPER motion into your brain. Try it =]

[KaBoom21]

Yes.
Someone (don't remember who) said: If your playing on a pillow, practice on a pillow. If you're playing on a drum, plactice on a drum!Good luck

I remember reading it in a Modern Drummer issue a long, long time ago, Seems to be pretty outdated thinking. It's a strength building exercise to supplement practicing on a drum/pad. much like weightlifting helps you in sports.

[Class A Drummer]

I dont like practicing just singles or just doubles for long periods of time. Although i do practice them by themself, i think a great way to practice them together is to play music, and use a pad and just kinda jam a solo along to the music.

[mattsmith]

Someone (don't remember who) said: If your playing on a pillow, practice on a pillow. If you're playing on a drum, plactice on a drum!

I remember reading it in a Modern Drummer issue a long, long time ago, Seems to be pretty outdated thinking. It's a strength building exercise to supplement practicing on a drum/pad. much like weightlifting helps you in sports.

Yeah to me, that's one of those clever little snipes a clinician says at the music store drum off. Then because of the way its said, everybody chuckles while never questioning if it made any sense or not. At the same time the clinician's thinking to himself Whew, only 9 questions left before I sign some swag and get out of here.

The same can be said for Modern Drummer which once published a picture of me with two beautiful girls. Judging by the picture you would swear they liked me. Funny how they bolted when the photographer left.

[Ben Tormey]

I don't have the best technique, but surely practicing on different surfaces helps you develop a stroke that is independent of rebound, like with the Moeller motion.

[mattsmith]

Well... I'm not quoting it because I think it's funny! I actually think it's damn right.
You won't work much on control on a pillow... even less on sound. If you want to build up your strength, go to the gym, don't waste your time practising something that is not real.
Anyway... what this points out is that the clinician is far above this kinds of questions. The same as when someone asks about the classical "technique/feeling dilema"... What dilema? There is no dilema.
This is somehow the same situation. Practising on a pillow won't make you a better drummer. You might become a drummer with big muscles, but better? I doubt it. Tell me some GOOD drummer (i say GOOD, not FAMOUS or FAST, notice the difference) that says that he/she has a good and solid technique because he practised on a pillow.

Man, I know you're a good guy. This is just one of those issues we and a lot of people disagree on. There are already many, many threads that debate this, so I won't go into to it too much except to say the issue of its use is about endurance and nothing else, and that's really a different issue than strength. Besides, you only do this for very limited times as part of your practice routine anyway.

[aydee]

Tell me some GOOD drummer (i say GOOD, not FAMOUS or FAST, notice the difference) that says that he/she has a good and solid technique because he practised on a pillow.

Like Matt, I'm going to stay away from this debate, but since you asked the question, Dennis Chambers is one good, famous, & fast drummer that practices and advocates practice on a pillow.
His reasoning is that building endurance is to build control, and control is technique.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Man, I know you're a good guy. This is just one of those issues we and a lot of people disagree on. There are already many, many threads that debate this, so I won't go into to it too much except to say the issue of its use is about endurance and nothing else, and that's really a different issue than strength. Besides, you only do this for very limited times as part of your practice routine anyway.

Yeah... sorry Matt... I maybe went too far. No mean to offend you, at all; I guess you know what I mean.
I know I shouldn't even care, but I don't know why I sometimes react when some people seem to be looking for a MacSolution that will make them a good drummer in 2 months.
Just thinking out loud... People (many!) don't care about what music is about anymore. It's just fireworks and being on the stage with some famous musician. Nobody knows how to phrase, but it doesn't matter, because it's fast. -Is this drummer good? Of course! He sold 2309029384 copies of his las CD! Of course! He has fancy cymbals and the fastest double pedal on earth!-
I apologise once more Matt, I know you're not into that... but I guess you know this is not about people like you (I hope it wasn't about anyone!).

[mattsmith]

I know I shouldn't even care, but I don't know why I sometimes react when some people seem to be looking for a MacSolution that will make them a good drummer in 2 months.
Just thinking out loud... People (many!) don't care about what music is about anymore. It's just fireworks and being on the stage with some famous musician. Nobody knows how to phrase, but it doesn't matter, because it's fast. -Is this drummer good? Of course! He sold 2309029384 copies of his las CD! Of course! He has fancy cymbals and the fastest double pedal on earth!-


No offense at all. I got your intent with no problem.

Hey I agree with your opinion about the instant drummer mindset. I think those guys who start threads that say Need to play jazz in 2 weeks, any suggestions? are hilarious.

But again, we need to get away from this mindset that it's all speed that's causing this. At least those guys practice even when they're faking it. The groove label fakers don't even do that. They just say anybody could do what you do if you practiced . I'll take a practicing fake over a lazy fake any day.

And yeah, I also get tired of the fame and fortune angle. Remember that thread that claimed everybody would sell out if they had the chance?

[Wile E. Coyote]

But again, we need to get away from this mindset that it's all speed that's causing this. At least those guys practice even when they're faking it. The groove label fakers don't even do that. They just say anybody could do what you do if you practiced . I'll take a practicing fake over a lazy fake any day.
LOL Yes... but that's just the other extreme, as stupid the one as it is the other one (what a good English I have... lol).
That reminds me of a "funny" one, when I was a very young and very fast guitar player. I was like 12 or 13 ears old and in a rehearsal and after a song with a very loooong fast solo, a friend of a member of the band said "I can't play that fast, I'm a blues guitar player". I remember I thought: "no... you're a bad guitar player that can only play slow and therefore you have to play blues".

I mean... everybody has been through something like that. And of course I also did the pillow thing. But I got a solid technique on the snare drum itself, slow and constant. And strength by playing SD (caixa) in a batucada. And control and sound (by the way... all the above with a bad sound are crap)... again on the snare!

Still in topic? Should I maybe shut up?