John Bonham

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Here you can post whenever you read, see, or hear about some kind of John Lennon special coming on TV.


I heard this morning that there was a John Lennon special on TV. My boyfriend told me about it. It was real early this morning or something. Did any of you catch it?

I think you may have confused John LENNON for John BONHAM in this particular thread. The Lennon info may well be available from someone at DW, but I doubt you'll find it in this thread.

Try the 'Off Topic' threads for this question, it will draw a better response there I believe.

[Morbid Koala]

I've been reading 'Hammer of the Gods' every year since I was thirteen and every subsequent year that I get older, I realize what a raging a-hole Bonzo was.

It doesn't change a single thing about his total domination of the drums and after all, he was a raging alcoholic in his 20's with the world at his disposal and terminally homesick. That's gonna mess ya' up.

But yeah, the more I read about him, the less I like the dude as a person. Had good taste in drums, an ear for tuning the drums to their fullest potential, impeccable playing and probably my biggest drum hero of all time.

But yeah, wouldn't want to look in his direction at a social gathering.

Maybe he was a little too influenced by Buddy Rich...

[motojt]

Maybe he just missed his family and wanted to be left alone? I didn't dig through all 37 pages, but in the 15 or so I did read I didn't see any mention of How Many More Times.

[Plantagenet]

Well he really liked drummers like Gene Krupa and Joe Morello. The way he tuned his toms were influenced by the sound of big band drummers that he would listen to when he was a kid. Hope this helps!

With due respect, what calls my attention from John Bonham. It's that He never recognized and admitted that He learnt few things from Carmine Appice.

Ian Paice and Cozy Powell had admitted it.

As I understand it (and I am going by a story told to me, rather than a quote from a reliable source) Bonzo heard Carmen playing and went off to replicate a fill that involved bass triplets.
(In Good Times Bad Times?)
But he didn't know that it was done with a double pedal and he did it single.
Then Carmen watched him playing and asked how he did "that" fill and Bonzo said, Well you should know I got it from you.

Dunno how badly messed up I have got that story but I'm sure he acknowledged the influence of CA.

[Ian Williams]

Fellows,

Check this interesting topic regarding John Bonham. Deborah Bonham and Joan Bonham at the Classic Rock Roll Of Honour Awards.

http://www.daylife.com/topic/John_Bonham

A toast on Mr. Bonham and His Moby Dick, I am having a cup of wine - Salud!

[Bonz0]

Haha I liked the Good Times Bad Times part...such a loss for drumming ='( R.I.P Bonzo!

Hey I just realized you have the same quote as your signature I do!

[Ian Williams]

Haha I liked the Good Times Bad Times part...such a loss for drumming ='( R.I.P Bonzo!

Que coincidencia, Tu y Yo tenemos las mismas citas, refranes de John Bonham como firmas. Saludos!

[Bonz0]

Si lo note justo cuando se publico el post xD gran coincidencia, pero es una verdad!

[JoeA]

John Henry Bonham

The Single biggest influence on my drumming.

The Man, The Myth, The LEGEND.

No more needs be said.

http://www.moderndrummer.com/rsrc/drum-gods/JohnBonham2sm400.jpg

[Drums101]

Definitely best rock n roll drummer of all time. When the Levee Breaks is the best song. The groove is great.

[virfirjans]

Have you seen this!!!???
http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm
John Bonham's drum tracks

[Drums101]

man i'm glad to see that you all love bonham soo much, the last time this forum was up there were some pretty bad arguments cause i said he was better than Peart.

How could someone argue Peart is better? Bonham just has so much more groove.

[mattyg@@]

Ok, i'm about to put my neck on the line. I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks John Bonham is over rated. What do you really think? Is he only a drum god because he is dead?
Would he be as much of a drumming legend if he was still around? If you're a Bonham fan, please don't attack me for this, I love his playing, but when I see other drummers of his era and the amazing drummers around today, it makes me think, was he really that much better than anyone else? Of course everyone has there own style and feel, but overall as a player what do you think?

[Pollyanna]

For sure. All of the top people are overrated because of the nature of celebrity. Fame builds upon itself.

Still, Bonzo's feel and sound had a special charm. It's not a matter of who's best but who people like the most.

[JPW]

Overrated as what? Someone being overrated as "a drummer" doesn't really tell me anything about what the person is looking for in a drummer. I don't think he's anywhere near the best drummer of all time, but in his own style and time he inspired huge populations of drummers, just like Ringo. But of course if you start to analyze it further in today's standards of lets say fusion music he doesn't get far. But that wasn't what he was about and why he is respected.

[aydee]

I'm curious to know who you think was more deserving of Drum God status?

( Rock drummers/ Bonham contemporaries only )

[dairyairman]

you have to place him in the context of his time. before him no one played like that. he and led zeppelin practically invented that style of heavy grooving and big, open drum sounds that everyone has been copying all these years, including me. he was hugely influential and completely changed the face of drumming as we know it today.

but if you put him head to head with some of the ultra skilled gospel, progressive, metal, and jazz drummers of today he probably isn't going to look all that impressive. even in his day there were lots of drummers who were more technically skilled than him, especially in the jazz world, which was going very strong in those days. he had fantastic chops too, but it was really his innovative style and approach to drumming that made him great, imo.

[Average]

Bonham was one of the early influences on my playing. I was into Zep because it was awesome music and so much different than the other stuff that was on the radio at the time I discovered them (Poison.) Its an incredible band and he was an extremely solid drummer with an awesome sound. I agree with Polly about fame feeding on itself but he was a pretty amazing drummer who would probably have continued to innovate if he wasn't dead.

[Styx]

Ok, i'm about to put my neck on the line. I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks John Bonham is over rated. What do you really think? Is he only a drum god because he is dead?
Would he be as much of a drumming legend if he was still around? If you're a Bonham fan, please don't attack me for this, I love his playing, but when I see other drummers of his era and the amazing drummers around today, it makes me think, was he really that much better than anyone else? Of course everyone has there own style and feel, but overall as a player what do you think?

You Sir, should be shot at the first light of dawn. I would hang my head in shame of even thinking this nonsense.(Can you tell I'm a Bonham Fan!!!)

On a serious note though, I think John was a class act. Do I think Led Zep would have been the same without him.....HELL NO!!! Was he better than anyone else....HELL NO!!! What he was, was a talented musician who gave Led Zep it's energy and Led Zep ooooooozed energy.

Sure, the quickest way to become a rock legend is drowing in your own puke but I think if he were alive today he'd still be giving whatever music he played the energy it needed to rock. I guess playing for one of the greatest rock bands ever didn't hurt either but he's name would still have been spoken by serious drummers for Aeons regardless of the band he played for, he was that good.

[Pollyanna]

Are there any middle-aged rock drummers who haven't been influenced by Bonzo?

I suppose some young drummers wonder what the fuss was about, what with the modern monster players of fusion, funk/hip hop and modern metal, but when I first started playing Ian Paice, Bonzo, Aynsley Dunbar and Bill Ward were my drumming world (along with some local drummers).

In hindsight, I think his playing had more appeal than his peers at the time, but it wasn't like Bonzo first, daylight second. In fact, in the mid-70s Ian Paice was my main man.

[bonzolead]

The thing I like best about Bonham is:

He had huge drums

Played without sticks

Had a gong & tympani drums incorporated into a Rock drumset

His drum sound is unsurpassed, actually Led Zeppelin was the first band that I could really distinguished the drums in the song when I was a youngster.

Who has a better Right-Foot?

Totally killed not tickled the kit LOL.

I know he wasn't. the first too do these things he just brought it too the forefront more than any other drummer.

Bonham too drums is like Hendrix was too guitar IMHO , of course there are better musician's but very few if any that had that Style,Groove & Showmanship.

I've even heard stories of 30 min. drum solos who did that in the 60's or 70's in Rock & Roll?

Bonham & Hendrix were original's & that's why they have such cult followings not because they're dead.

Bonzolead

[Django136]

I have his Maple Reissue Kit. It Rocks

[keep it simple]

Are there any middle-aged rock drummers who haven't been influenced by Bonzo?
Yes, me! Although I was aware of, and listened to Zep, I really didn't take on much, if anything from Bonzo. I was much more into the drumming of Nigel Olsson, Danny Seraphine, Denis Elliott, Jeff Porcaro, Prairie Prince, Carl Palmer, etc, etc. That said, he certainly carved a style of his own and I'm sure my rock drumming would be better if I had taken influence from him.

[bonzolead]

Yes, me! Although I was aware of, and listened to Zep, I really didn't take on much, if anything from Bonzo. I was much more into the drumming of Nigel Olsson, Danny Seraphine, Denis Elliott, Jeff Porcaro, Prairie Prince, Carl Palmer, etc, etc. That said, he certainly carved a style of his own and I'm sure my rock drumming would be better if I had taken influence from him.

That's funny you said Dennis Elliott from Foreigner I like his drumming on the first Foreigner albums very underrated IMO.

Bonzolead

[keep it simple]

That's funny you said Dennis Elliott from Foreigner I like his drumming on the first Foreigner albums very underrated IMO.

BonzoleadTotally agree. Superb tom to snare flow and super tasteful double kick work.

[Fuzrock]

you have to place him in the context of his time. before him no one played like that. he and led zeppelin practically invented that style of heavy grooving and big, open drum sounds that everyone has been copying all these years, including me. he was hugely influential and completely changed the face of drumming as we know it today.

but if you put him head to head with some of the ultra skilled gospel, progressive, metal, and jazz drummers of today he probably isn't going to look all that impressive. even in his day there were lots of drummers who were more technically skilled than him, especially in the jazz world, which was going very strong in those days. he had fantastic chops too, but it was really his innovative style and approach to drumming that made him great, imo.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. Bonzo kinda falls into the same category as Steve Gadd IMO. There are guys out there who are more technical and can do all of this amazing stuff but none of them have feel like they do. They're both hugely influential thanks to their groundbreaking styles as well as their ability to play what is right for a song. Two of my favorite drummers. I can't decide who I like more. Probably Bonham.

[jon e rotten]

Four words: When the Levee Breaks

is it hard..no....is it awesome...yes

[double_G]

i think that history will prove that JHB was one of the greats. you will notice his time is amazing for 60s, 70s playing. my pet theory is that if you could get in a time machine, you would notice that Bonham was one of the sickest players at that time...and the tech in "good times, bad times" was pretty much mind-blowing. still sounds great & innovative when i hear Steve Smith play his licks !

[jackaylor]

This may be off topic but im trying to find a vintage natural maple ludwig kit like the one bonham played in the early 70s with a 26x14 bass drum, 14x12 tom, 16x16 floor tom and 18x16 floor tom. do you know where i can get one of these vintage?

[Strangelove]

This may be off topic but im trying to find a vintage natural maple ludwig kit like the one bonham played in the early 70s with a 26x14 bass drum, 14x12 tom, 16x16 floor tom and 18x16 floor tom. do you know where i can get one of these vintage?

Not likely. Even back in the 70s I never saw another drummer with a 26" bass drum and a 14" mounted tom. Ludwig never sold drum sets in that configuration until just recently that I know of. For whatever reason, John was not the selling point for Ludwig back when he was alive that Ringo Starr or even Carmine Appice was, so they never sold a JB set. Marketing was weird back then, and you would have had to ordered that set custom, like he did, and it would have cost a second mortgage on the house.

Another nearly impossible task is to find a set of vintage Paiste White Label Giant Beats like he played up until the Houses of the Holy album. You never see vintage Giant Beats on Ebay - white or black label. Nobody can truly get that Bonham sound without those cymbals, either.

[Strangelove]

Ok, i'm about to put my neck on the line. I'd like to know if there is anyone who thinks John Bonham is over rated. What do you really think? Is he only a drum god because he is dead?
Would he be as much of a drumming legend if he was still around? If you're a Bonham fan, please don't attack me for this, I love his playing, but when I see other drummers of his era and the amazing drummers around today, it makes me think, was he really that much better than anyone else? Of course everyone has there own style and feel, but overall as a player what do you think?

Hmmm. Well, first off, I think most drummers from legendary rock groups are overrated and get more attention than they deserve because of WHO they play for rather than how talented they really are. That said, I think he was way above and beyond the "in the pocket drummers" - guys like like Watts and Rudd. You have to really listen to the subtleties of his style to appreciate how talented he was. Just try to play along to Good Times, Bad Times, or play that shuffle beat he does to Fool in the Rain before labeling him just an average Joe. Those sixteenth note triplets he could dribble off on the bass drum were also truly unique to him.

[Fox622003]

I have to agree in that he is overrated, or more precisely, given too much credit for stuff that really wasn't that important, and not given the proper credit for other things. As the previous poster said, Good Times, Bad Times and Fool in the Rain are great examples (And not only the shuffle there, when he goes to the ride bell, he plays a cool polyrhythm), they are truly original grooves, there are others, too. Compared to Paice for example, who doesn't really have many grooves as interesting. That said, I don't think his playing was that great, but he had some signature fills and stuff, came up with a few legendary beats, and his sound was quite unique.


Fox.

[Pollyanna]

Yes, me! Although I was aware of, and listened to Zep, I really didn't take on much, if anything from Bonzo. I was much more into the drumming of Nigel Olsson, Danny Seraphine, Denis Elliott, Jeff Porcaro, Prairie Prince, Carl Palmer, etc, etc. That said, he certainly carved a style of his own and I'm sure my rock drumming would be better if I had taken influence from him.

Wow, so it is possible! Oh well., with influences like those, you can't (and didn't) go wrong. I was a big fan of those players too, apart from Dennis E but that was later on. At the start, it was all about the famous heavy drummers I mentioned earlier. With Dennis E I never got over the disappointment after buying Foreigner's debut album because the band included King Crimson's Ian McDonald. I was expecting curry and ended up with a hamburger :(

Four words: When the Levee Breaks

is it hard..no....is it awesome...yes

Beautifully put.

You have to really listen to the subtleties of his style to appreciate how talented he was. Just try to play along to Good Times, Bad Times, or play that shuffle beat he does to Fool in the Rain before labeling him just an average Joe. Those sixteenth note triplets he could dribble off on the bass drum were also truly unique to him.

Agree, and he continued to develop too. When I first heard Achilles Last Stand and Bonzo played that massive Cobham-esque fill about halfway through my jaw just about hit the floor. His tightness in Nobody's Fault was mind-blowing too. You have to hand it to Zep - the whole band had fantastic timing.

they are truly original grooves, there are others, too. Compared to Paice for example, who doesn't really have many grooves as interesting

True but, to be fair, Purple were a far less eclectic band so Ian P had less opportunity to be original. Ian did come up with some killer lines - Fireball, Burn and, especially, You Fool No One.

Another song with killer Bonzo beats was Gallows Pole.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

That said, I think he was way above and beyond the "in the pocket drummers" - guys like like Watts and Rudd. You have to really listen to the subtleties of his style to appreciate how talented he was. Just try to play along to Good Times, Bad Times, or play that shuffle beat he does to Fool in the Rain before labeling him just an average Joe. Those sixteenth note triplets he could dribble off on the bass drum were also truly unique to him.

Haha.......I just KNEW someone would express my thoughts on this just splendidly (and I actually shoulda guessed it would be you, doctor!!).

Da best drumma eva???.........No. The best ROCK drummer ever?......open for debate and personal opinion. One of the most influential?.....Indeedy he was. History speaks for him!!

[CareyCopelandCameron]

most influental?na...maybe....most overrated drummer of all the time?YES

[Django136]

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham

[Django136]

This guy is the best drummer that has ever stepped foot on this planet. His best solo and the BEST solo ever Moby Dick. Listen to it if you haven't yet. Its personally my favourite drum solo.http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/JohnBonhammobidick.html. Also be sure to check out Carter Beuford's drum solo on Two Step, pretty nice solo too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOatIrazULw. John Bonham's drumming still goes on to many inspired drummers even though he is not with us today. Zeppelin could not replace someone as a drummer to do what Bonham did, its like impossible! Please leave any comments about this amazing and inspiring drummer, Mr. John Henry Bonham. Some people may say He's overrated, and he may be but performance is what matters! Remember that!

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Yeah, mate....I'm also a huge fan, BUT terms like 'best ever' are hard to swallow I've always found. My current list of "best ever's" runs to more than 100 drummers!!

By the way, there is also a long running thread on JHB.....check it out as this thread will get moved there.

[Eggman]

Anyone who's been named the greatest anything is going to be called overrated by somebody. Calling John Bonham or Ringo Starr or Neil Peart or whoever overrated is just something people say when they don't have any real argument to make about the person's drumming.

Not sure I'd call him the best drummer ever, but definitely among the best.

[toddy]

terms like 'greatest ever' bear no relevance to me.. there are great drummers, but its not a competition. i feel no need to put anyone on a pedestal.

wasn't there a thread up for him already? hmm. anyway yeah, he is a great drummer.
i use the present tense because he still has a huge influence over rock music today.

[MikeM]

Yeah, I don't get the "best ever" stuff, either. The guy was a great drummer, no doubt about it. Cool sounding drums: check. Nice strong groove: check. Hugely influential: double check.

But I'll tell you what I don't get: In all my years of drumming I never would have guessed that so many people would one day be using his likeness for their usernames and avatars (obviously wasn't thinking internet forums).

Seriously, I can recall off the top of my head two, maybe three, drummers on this forum using another drummers' likeness on usernames and avatars but probably a dozen who use Bonham's.

Is everyone too embarrassed to admit or remember that Neil Peart was such a huge influence? Because as I remember back on it, Neil Peart was consistently at the top of everyone's favorite drummer list (refer back to MD reader polls from that era). I'm tempted to wonder if it's because he didn't die right after Moving Pictures! Apologies if this is coming across as flippant, but I've been growing increasingly curious about the nature of Bonham's legendary status as it continues to grow.

It also makes me wonder if Bonham would still be so wildly popular if he were still alive and an old geezer trying to live off his glory years. Maybe his drumming might seem a little stale by now and lost some of its luster.

But I really am impressed with Bonham's staying power over the years, even if I don't totally understand it. As a kid growing up playing drums through the late '70s and '80s, Bonham never cracked my top 10 favorite drummers. Perhaps he's higher on my list now, but at this point I have so many favorites, it's not even funny. He's just one among many.

[gonzomaniac71]

I never thought Moby Dick was the best drum solo, I'd have to give that to Joe Morello for Castilian Drums back when he was part of the Dave Brubeck Quartet. But Bonham was hugely influential in rock drumming in general, anyone who came after Bonham was in some way influenced by Bonham...I think the only contemporary drummer that has a shot at rivaling him is Benny Greb.

[toddy]

young players should be expanding upon the stuff that bonham does. yes you should look backwards, but you should do it in such a way that it helps you move forward. my opinion.

[harryconway]

33 pages of thread here: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2106&highlight=john+bonham

[MikeM]

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham
Wow, not leaving much room for another opinion or perspective on the matter, are you? This kind of thing is subjective, you know. Clearly, he's your favorite drummer.

[Strangelove]

Yeah, I don't get the "best ever" stuff, either. The guy was a great drummer, no doubt about it. Cool sounding drums: check. Nice strong groove: check. Hugely influential: double check.

But I'll tell you what I don't get: In all my years of drumming I never would have guessed that so many people would one day be using his likeness for their usernames and avatars (obviously wasn't thinking internet forums).

Seriously, I can recall off the top of my head two, maybe three, drummers on this forum using another drummers' likeness on usernames and avatars but probably a dozen who use Bonham's.

Is everyone too embarrassed to admit or remember that Neil Peart was such a huge influence? Because as I remember back on it, Neil Peart was consistently at the top of everyone's favorite drummer list (refer back to MD reader polls from that era). I'm tempted to wonder if it's because he didn't die right after Moving Pictures! Apologies if this is coming across as flippant, but I've been growing increasingly curious about the nature of Bonham's legendary status as it continues to grow.

It also makes me wonder if Bonham would still be so wildly popular if he were still alive and an old geezer trying to live off his glory years. Maybe his drumming might seem a little stale by now and lost some of its luster.

But I really am impressed with Bonham's staying power over the years, even if I don't totally understand it. As a kid growing up playing drums through the late '70s and '80s, Bonham never cracked my top 10 favorite drummers. Perhaps he's higher on my list now, but at this point I have so many favorites, it's not even funny. He's just one among many.

I think there is some kind of cult following developing for all things Zeppelin for some reason. My son is at a worship phase for Bonham right now too, and his guitarists have the same hots for Page and Jones. I don't even try to figure it out - maybe their generation's music sucks so bad that they are reaching out for my generation's mega-bands. Another worship of theirs is Pink Floyd and The Doors - neither band whose drummers were ever on my radar screens back in the day. I am not dissing Nick Mason, or John Densmore, but I think the fact that they played for such legendary mega rock bands gets them much more noteriety than they would have gotten anywhere else. Bonham was a cut above most rock drummers in those days, but so was Ginger Baker, Carl Palmer, Danny Seraphine, Neil Peart, and Bill Bruford. Which one was the absolute best? Ginger Baker will probably scarf that titlle up himself personally - or maybe he and Carmine Appice can duke it out for top dog, lol - who really cares? I personally think it was Neil Peart, but that is my opinion and I am only one of too many. Rush however, was not and probably never will get as popular as the Zep. Jimmy Page deserves most of the artistic credit for every place that band has been, though, and as much credit as Pagey loves to shower on Bonzo, I don't think John Paul Jones will ever dispute that fact. I wonder if Page doesn't have some inner hauntings for all that Allistair Crowley/Black Magic crap and the fact that Bonham died in his house. All I know is that back in the 1970's nobody worshipped Bonham the way they do now. Bill Ludwig didn't even pay him much attention. Still, he was a cut above most rock drummers.

[bonzolead]

most influental?na...maybe....most overrated drummer of all the time?YES

Carey,Copeland of Cameron which I do like all said they was influenced by Bonham I guess that just adds to his overrated factor LOL.

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

John Bonham is Moby Dick.
His feeling and technique were unique, love those Paiste Giant Beats cymbals that he played in the beginning and his bass drum triplets.

I would say D.I.P = Drum In Peace ~ Dear Bonham.

[BigShow36]

Its impossible to quantify how good "X" drummer is compared to "Y." Attempting to do so is simply going to cause undue animosity. That said, there are drummers who obviously stand out for whatever reason from their peers, just like bands as an entity sometimes do.

John Bonham is obviously one of those drummers. Is he as technically proficient as some modern drummers or some drummers back in his day? Probably not. But drums aren't an instrument that rely soley on technique. Feel, groove, and taste are all arguably more important that any technical prowess.

Bonzo is a rock drumming legend who has insipred hundreds of thousands of drummers. His influence cannot be overstated. He is inextricably part of one of the largest bands of all time, much like Ringo to the Beatles, and is one of the few drummers who defines the instrument.

I know that people can sometimes get caught up in looking for technical frills in drummers, but holy-****, listen to that groove.

[harryconway]

John Bonham may be overrated but get it through your mind people, He is the BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet. For instance listen to Moby Dick, that'll give you a good taste of just how dang good that guy is. R.I.P John Henry Bonham
To ever step foot on this planet! Really. Seems there was this cat. Tony Williams. Born in 1945. Played with Miles Davis, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock and Ron Carter in 1962. Tony was 17 years old at the time.
First Zepp. album was in 1969, which would make Bonham 21 (born in 1948). Sure, I enjoy listenning to and playing Zepp/Bonham stuff. I can't even begin to play some of the stuff Tony Williams threw down. So.....BEST drummer to EVER step foot on this planet......sorry, I'm not buying what your selling.

[Strangelove]

love those Paiste Giant Beats cymbals that he played in the beginning and his bass drum triplets.


Would it be disrespectful to admit that I love his cymbals more than his playing? The shimmer of those white label Giant Beats is what got me interested in Paistes to begin with. Immigrant Song is a classic Giant Beat 18" Multi crash sound and Stairway - lord, that beautiful silvery ping and wash of that 24" Ride..............................you guys that worship Tony's ride have no idea what Bonzo's ride does for us rockers, lol.

[Pkaneps]

Four words: When the Levee Breaks

is it hard..no....is it awesome...yes

Amen.


I no longer make lists of any 'Best ______ ever'. It's too difficult to compare across genres. To watch and to listen to, John Bonham is my favorite drummer. Overrated or not, he's my biggest influence and the reason I even wanted to play drums.

Of course there are better drummers, but there are none that I'd rather listen to.

[Drums101]

. His best solo and the BEST solo ever Moby Dick.

I pretty sure that's the most ludicrous statement I have ever heard.

[Destroyone]

I actually didn't like Led Zep when they first came out. They only grew on me because growing up in Brooklyn in the late 60's early 70's my cousin played the damn album every single morning while we got ready for school...."How many more tiii-iiimes......beat meeee...the wayyy you pleeee-ase!" :-) (How many more times did I want to throw that record out into the street!)...UGH!

I was so into Hendrix and Mitchell that Zep just wasn't even close to being in the same league. Mitchell is THE one that made me want to start playing drums in the first place, (later in '71 I got to record in Jimi's Electric Lady Studios with my NYC original rock band...what a trip!...alas Jimi had already stepped on out across his rainbow bridge)...when I heard Mitch's drumming on "FIRE" that was it for me...I was hooked....hook, line, and sinker....and today I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close, can't hold a candle to 'em. To be fair to him, he did fit the music and he's a household name, just like a thousand other guys, but the best drummer ever? The best soloist ever? Methinks not.

Guys back in the 30's and 40's were doing triplets and cross-overs in their sleep. JB had nice 16th foot work, but that was the only technique I saw that was the slightest bit different or stood him out from any of the other contemporaries of the time. He certainly had no 'godly knowledge' of the rudiments fer' cryin' out loud. And let me tell you, those early cats knew their rudiments upside down, sideways, and any other way you can think of.

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.

Paige probably had a lot to do with a LOT of what Bonzo could get away with recording-wise, and conversely, not get away with. Like I could imagine that JB tried to wrest his acrylics into the studio one day and Jimmy stopped him cold with "Not on me' watch. mate! 'Yer not bringing those bloody plastic tree planters in this studio...you use the bloomin' Maple's!

If any of you have ever watched their 1973 performances at Madison Square Garden, ("The Song Remains The Same" released in 1976) you KNOW they made a shambles out of that concert, horrible, horrible, abysmally horrific! All the songs were mish-mashed, half the band didn't know what the hell was going on, Bonzo's vistalites sounded crappy...as vistalites are wont to do......and I thought to myself...."THIS? This is the best Rock n' Roll band in the world? This is absolutely the worst thing I have ever heard in my life..."...and I had to turn the video off. When I read that they had gotten swindled out of $203,000.00 I thought "Somebody's not happy!" LOL " Shyster promoters got some of their money back probably...."

Bonham purveyed the idea that bigger is better, hence the "iconic" 14 X 26 Luddy. Big deal. Hell, most of the early cats cut their teeth on 14 X 28's....grew up on 'em.....like Chick Webb in the 20's and 30's. Little guy, suffered with tuberculosis of the spine from childhood, short stature, distorted spine, lived with it all his life, drummed with it all his life, led his band while suffering from it, and finally died a young man of 34!

"In 1931 Buddy Rich cited Webb's powerful technique and virtuoso performances as heavily influential on his own drumming, and even referred to Webb as "the daddy of them all".

"Art Blakey and Duke Ellington both credit Webb with influencing their music. Krupa credited Webb with raising drummer awareness and paving the way for drummer-led bands, which Krupa would later employ. His thundering solos created a complexity and an energy that paved the way for Buddy Rich (who studied Webb intensely) and Louie Bellson..."

Don't just take my word on it, read the history for yourself on the Wik link I posted down below.

Talk about an Unsung Hero....Go figure!

Now my generation of drummers, guys like Paice, Powell, Shrieve...all of Zappa's drummers...they had their own thing going on that trumped JHB pretty effortlessly, and the truly greats like drummers/bandleaders/players like Webb, Bellson, Krupa, Rich, Williams and a veritable host of others et al? THEY were the true mentors.

I do love my '70's Slingerland deep cob snare and 1930 Slingerland 16 X 32 bass drum though! JB just used a measly 26" lol

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...2f70957efc.jpg


Now when you think on it, the 30's drummers learned from the 20's drummers, the 40's drummers learned from the 30's drummers, and neck bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ...and so on and so forth, so that by the time the 60's and 70's rolled around, we (my generation) had learned from ALL those guys, then on into the 70's 80's and now here in 2010, what a plethora of knowledge this current generation of drummers has garnered...and how about in the next 50 years? It's only been 100+ years since the first drum sets were cobbled together after evolving from drum corps, marching drum techniques (Traditional grip like I play to the now-vaunted matched grip), the evolution of marching rudiments to drum kit exploitation, the vision and construction of first true drum kits and on and on and on et exhaustem infinitum....so no wonder there are so many excellent drummers out there, from every nation and every tribe!

We are the elite, we are a fraternity like no other. The guitarists can have their amps on 11, the bassists can boast more bottom (No pun intended...well maybe a wee bit), and the keyboardists can have their ivories tickled...but who ALLOWS them to play? Who mesmerizes them, and amazes them, and boosts them to their highest potential, ladies and gentlemen?

WE DO!

'Nuff said...






















"Ladies and Gentlemen! The inimitable Mr. CHICK WEBB!!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Webb

http://www.bigband-musik.dk/images/am_jazz/chick.jpg

Edited for Bonzo typo

[bonzolead]

I actually didn't like Led Zep when they first came out. They only grew on me because growing up in Brooklyn in the late 60's early 70's my cousin played the damn album every single morning while we got ready for school...."How many more tiii-iiimes......beat meeee...the wayyy you pleeee-ase!" :-) (How many more times did I want to throw that record out into the street!)...UGH!

I was so into Hendrix and Mitchell that Zep just wasn't even close to being in the same league. Mitchell is THE one that made me want to start playing drums in the first place, (later in '71 I got to record in Jimi's Electric Lady Studios with my NYC original rock band...what a trip!...alas Jimi had already stepped on out across his rainbow bridge)...when I heard Mitch's drumming on "FIRE" that was it for me...I was hooked....hook, line, and sinker....and today I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close, can't hold a candle to 'em. To be fair to him, he did fit the music and he's a household name, just like a thousand other guys, but the best drummer ever? The best soloist ever? Methinks not.

Guys back in the 30's and 40's were doing triplets and cross-overs in their sleep. JB had nice 16th foot work, but that was the only technique I saw that was the slightest bit different or stood him out from any of the other contemporaries of the time. He certainly had no 'godly knowledge' of the rudiments fer' cryin' out loud. And let me tell you, those early cats knew their rudiments upside down, sideways, and any other way you can think of.

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.

Paige probably had a lot to do with a LOT of what Bozo could get away with recording-wise, and conversely, not get away with. Like I could imagine that JB tried to wrest his acrylics into the studio one day and Jimmy stopped him cold with "Not on me' watch. mate! 'Yer not bringing those bloody plastic tree planters in this studio...you use the bloomin' Maple's!

If any of you have ever watched their 1973 performances at Madison Square Garden, ("The Song Remains The Same" released in 1976) you KNOW they made a shambles out of that concert, horrible, horrible, abysmally horrific! All the songs were mish-mashed, half the band didn't know what the hell was going on, Bozo's vistalites sounded crappy...as vistalites are wont to do......and I thought to myself...."THIS? This is the best Rock n' Roll band in the world? This is absolutely the worst thing I have ever heard in my life..."...and I had to turn the video off. When I read that they had gotten swindled out of $203,000.00 I thought "Somebody's not happy!" LOL " Shyster promoters got some of their money back probably...."

Bonham purveyed the idea that bigger is better, hence the "iconic" 14 X 26 Luddy. Big deal. Hell, most of the early cats cut their teeth on 14 X 28's....grew up on 'em.....like Chick Webb in the 20's and 30's. Little guy, suffered with tuberculosis of the spine from childhood, short stature, distorted spine, lived with it all his life, drummed with it all his life, led his band while suffering from it, and finally died a young man of 34!

"In 1931 Buddy Rich cited Webb's powerful technique and virtuoso performances as heavily influential on his own drumming, and even referred to Webb as "the daddy of them all".

"Art Blakey and Duke Ellington both credit Webb with influencing their music. Krupa credited Webb with raising drummer awareness and paving the way for drummer-led bands, which Krupa would later employ. His thundering solos created a complexity and an energy that paved the way for Buddy Rich (who studied Webb intensely) and Louie Bellson..."

Don't just take my word on it, read the history for yourself on the Wik link I posted down below.

Talk about an Unsung Hero....Go figure!

Now my generation of drummers, guys like Paice, Powell, Shrieve...all of Zappa's drummers...they had their own thing going on that trumped JHB pretty effortlessly, and the truly greats like drummers/bandleaders/players like Webb, Bellson, Krupa, Rich, Williams and a veritable host of others et al? THEY were the true mentors. I don't know who Bozo studied, I don't know if he ever even discussed it, but knowing what I know and what I've read about his pathetic idiotic antics like taking dumps in women's purses and shoes and the like, I have very little respect for him as a man, and having this narcissistic attitude, I'm really not in the least bit surprised that he didn't give credit to those who mentored him. As a drummer he rates very low on my scale of top 100 drummers.

I do love my '70's Slingerland deep cob snare and 1930 Slingerland 16 X 32 bass drum though! JB just used a measly 26" Hah!

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/91/l_68829417ee384a79a38a882f70957efc.jpg

Now when you think on it, the 30's drummers learned from the 20's drummers, the 40's drummers learned from the 30's drummers, and neck bone's connected to the shoulder bone, ...and so on and so forth, so that by the time the 60's and 70's rolled around, we (my generation) had learned from ALL those guys, then on into the 70's 80's and now here in 2010, what a plethora of knowledge this current generation of drummers has garnered...and how about in the next 50 years? It's only been 100+ years since the first drum sets were cobbled together after evolving from drum corps, marching drum techniques (Traditional grip like I play to the now-vaunted matched grip), the evolution of marching rudiments to drum kit exploitation, the vision and construction of first true drum kits and on and on and on et exhaustem infinitum....so no wonder there are so many excellent drummers out there, from every nation and every tribe!

We are the elite, we are a fraternity like no other. The guitarists can have their amps on 11, the bassists can boast more bottom (No pun intended...well maybe a wee bit), and the keyboardists can have their ivories tickled...but who ALLOWS them to play? Who mesmerizes them, and amazes them, and boosts them to their highest potential, ladies and gentlemen?

WE DO!

'Nuff said...






















"Ladies and Gentlemen! The inimitable Mr. CHICK WEBB!!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick_Webb

http://www.bigband-musik.dk/images/am_jazz/chick.jpg

None of the drummers you mentioned had the pure power Bonham had on a drumkit NUFF SAID, Look at the little solo bit at the end of "Dazed & Confused" from the crappy "The Song Remains The Same" & you'll understand.

Oh here's a little drum education for you, he was influenced by Krupa & Rich his 1up 2 down set up should of gave you a little clue I guess you were busy disagreeing with all the Bonham fans out there, He is Legend 33 pages,1304 replies & 104,953 views prove that by itself.

Nothing taken away from the drummers you mentioned they're Great and deserve mentioning I try too learn something from every drummer I've saw live or heard period no matter how bad or great they were & that's every drummer.

You shouldn't. be so simple-minded or should I say cymbal-minded LOL


Bonzolead

[Pollyanna]

Destroyone, I don't agree with some of your evaluations but that was an entertaining read :)

A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless

Couldn't agree more. However, no matter who's calling the shots or twiddling the knobs you have to give credit to the humble tub thumper who's doing the actual part. I think you undersold JB there. He really did play with a pleasing amount of oomph and groove, and it wasn't all someone else's vision.

I still rate my TOP favorite drummers as Rich, Mitchell, Paice, and Cobham. Compared to these three? Bonham doesn't even come close

His major appeal to me is his feel. For a big hitter JB had lovely touch. He passes the acid test of a drummer - did he make the songs feel good? Yes he did! [sic]. Most of his tracks are a pleasure to listen to - either within the band sound or just focusing on the drums. If there's a rock drummer who's playing could be described as "sexy" it would be JB on those first two albums.

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

[Destroyone]

Destroyone, I don't agree with some of your evaluations but that was an entertaining read :)



Couldn't agree more. However, no matter who's calling the shots or twiddling the knobs you have to give credit to the humble tub thumper who's doing the actual part. I think you undersold JB there. He really did play with a pleasing amount of oomph and groove, and it wasn't all someone else's vision.



His major appeal to me is his feel. For a big hitter JB had lovely touch. He passes the acid test of a drummer - did he make the songs feel good? Yes he did! [sic]. Most of his tracks are a pleasure to listen to - either within the band sound or just focusing on the drums. If there's a rock drummer who's playing could be described as "sexy" it would be JB on those first two albums.

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

Yes, I quite agree. Dunbar is right up there at the top of my list. I saw Cobham with Mahavishnu live in Central Park in 70 or 71 and they blew me away. Billy made me just sit down and be very very still. Like a sponge still....I agree with no comparisons with Billy, and I'm not comparing him to JB, as you said, there is no one quite like Mr C.

And I'm glad you were entertained by the read. Somewhere around here I have a copy of "A Thunder Of Drums" and I think I'll re-read it on the plane. I want to check out the rest of this forum's content when I have a little more time after my wife and I return from from vacation.

This looks like an articulate educational discussion board that I can learn more than a few things about, I'm sure of it. Oh, and lest I forget my manners...

R.I.P. JB You are truly a legendary mentor for millions.

[Strangelove]

He was usually tidier than Mitch and funkier than Ian Paice, although those guys were more nimble. Different qualities, all enjoyable. Ian, Mitch, JB and Aynsley Dunbar were my first drum idols in the 70s. I don't feel JB can be compared with Billy C - different genres. Actually, I'm not sure anyone can be compared with Billy C in his with Mahavishnu period - that was white magic.

I have always felt the same. Mitch was always very busy, but sloppy and often off beat, at least in live performances (Woodstock comes to mind), particularly in his fills. Not that JB couldn't wander on his timing (everybody knows about his alcohol consumption in live performances), but Mitch Mitchell just never impressed me that much because of those imperfections. I actually like Hendrix better under Band of Gypsies because of the solid groove that Miles laid down. It was something Mitch was just incapable of.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

The bottom line is this. His engineer did a hell of a recording job and THAT'S who deserves the credit for JB's 'BIG' sound. A good sound engineer is worth his weight in gold, an excellent one is priceless....and most of you know you can take THAT to the bank. ESPECIALLY when it comes to drum recording and live stage mix.


I don't dispute the value of a good engineer by any measure. But it was indeed Page who can take the credit for any Zepp sounds captured on tape. No doubt about that.

He even made a point of displaying this by using a different engineer on every album. That was not 'by circumstance' but 'by design'. Don't forget JP was a seasoned session guitarist and arranger before he formed Zeppelin. He was no stranger to the inside of a recording studio by any means.

[jjmason777]

Hey everybody, scroll back down, and check out Chick's DRUM RACK ON WHEELS! I'm surprised nobody noted that before. It even looks like his bass drum is attached to it. Way ahead of it's time for the 30's.

[JoeA]

Amen.


I no longer make lists of any 'Best ______ ever'. It's too difficult to compare across genres. To watch and to listen to, John Bonham is my favorite drummer. Overrated or not, he's my biggest influence and the reason I even wanted to play drums.

Of course there are better drummers, but there are none that I'd rather listen to.

Couldnt have said it any better man

[Found My Wings]

I have read every post in this thread. It has taken me a few days I will say!
It has done nothing but make me really appreciate the man. As well as the people here.

The knowledge you guys have on this man (and many others that I will dive into) is incredible! You share it so openly too, tips and tricks to get your kit ready special exercises, I love it!

What a great place!

John Bonham you are certainly not forgotten.

[Funky Crêpe]

Does anyone else think that the lick....well musical phrase at 3:31 onwards...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed5YvFkcR7g

resembles elvin's at 5:00 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHulrp03qnk

it's just kind of funny how so many of bonham's phrases can be related to the jazz greats, truely exceptonal!

[thelewmonster]

Easily one of the worlds most influencial drummers to this day, here is a blog entry i wrote on the shuffle he plays in Fool in the Rain, let me know what you think

http://rock-drumming.wonderhowto.com/blog/bernard-pretty-purdie-tastiest-funk-drummer-all-0114496/

[Ian Williams]

A quote from John Bonham / Moby Dick:

"When I listen to drummers I like to be able to say "Oh! I haven't heard that before." Being yourself is so much better than sounding like anyone else. Ginger Baker's thing is that he is himself. So it's no good trying to do what he does."

[Deathtoll]

I love what Gavin Harrison said when he was talking about unique drummers, "I don't like specific sounds of drum recording as for the drummer himself, for example, John Bonham sounds the way he does because of the way he plays, if someone where to play his kit in a recording no one would be able to recognize it because its not John himself playing it."

[Glow Girl]

John Bonham was brilliant. He had such a power and a presence. I don't think anyone can play like Bonham. Some people say he's overrated. Fine. But there will never be anyone who can play like Bonham. He was unique.

Oh, and happy birthday, Bonzo.

[scorch whammin]

Great posts in this thread....Bonzo certainly hasn't been forgotten....RIP and happy birthday Bonzo!

[Ian Williams]

Not at all! you are being sincere. There is something "unsual" on those Giant Beats...that sound...that feel. I appreciate your knowledge shared.

Would it be disrespectful to admit that I love his cymbals more than his playing? The shimmer of those white label Giant Beats is what got me interested in Paistes to begin with. Immigrant Song is a classic Giant Beat 18" Multi crash sound and Stairway - lord, that beautiful silvery ping and wash of that 24" Ride..............................you guys that worship Tony's ride have no idea what Bonzo's ride does for us rockers, lol.

[Found My Wings]

Happy Birthday John you are missed by many.

I purchased online the John Bonham book A Thunder of Drums and it had been lost in the mail system for a while now and lo and behold if the mailman din't come in TODAY with the book, of all days!

That has to be a sign of something!!!

[thebard]

A story about the man himself :

Many years ago, around 1970 ish, a fellow drummer friend of mine decided to do a marathon drum playing session for charity. There was only him and his helpers. It was set up in a room at Stourbridge Cricket Club ( West Midlands UK ) and was expected to last a few days. He used his kit and borrowed mine as well so as to have plenty of variety.

One of our close friends was Martin Lickert who at the time was chauffeur to Ringo Star. Martin arranged to bring John Bonham to visit us during the event to give support.

He duly came and stayed a couple of hours, firstly talking drums then sat behind our improvised double kit and while my friend just played the ride to keep his marathon going, John treated us to his hands only section of Moby Dick, answered questions and showed us anything we wanted to know.

I stood right behind his right shoulder while he played my kit talking to him as he played. Later we sat and had a pint, just one !

He talked drummer to drummer, a real nice, down to earth man, and I was very privileged that day, although I didn’t really know it at the time. All I have left of that kit is a cymbal and somewhere a press cutting of the event.

People knock him sometimes and say he wasn’t a nice person. I met him and he was just one of the lads, a genuine guy who was quite willing to come and support us mortals, to play and talk drums.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

And I'll just add this. Drinking will kill you. It did John, and so many, many others. We do what we do, but we need to remain stabilized. Music in general, and drumming in particular, is best enjoyed in a clear-headed and sober state.

One drink you say. I'm sure John's drinking escalated, he died a mortal in drunkenness. Don't evade the facts. Drinking devours the body, and John was not immortal.

He died a horrible death.

On that note.....I'm off for a beer!!

[Destroyone]

On that note.....I'm off for a beer!!

Repent, O thee sinner! :) Then drink 2 Bloody Mary's for your hangover...or is it pray two Hail Mary's and swig a shot? I can never remember...

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Repent, O thee sinner! :)

Sinner?.....Guilty as charged, sir.

Repent?........NEVER! I tells ya!

:-)

[Ian Williams]

Any pictures of those good times?

A story about the man himself :

Many years ago, around 1970 ish, a fellow drummer friend of mine decided to do a marathon drum playing session for charity. There was only him and his helpers. It was set up in a room at Stourbridge Cricket Club ( West Midlands UK ) and was expected to last a few days. He used his kit and borrowed mine as well so as to have plenty of variety.

One of our close friends was Martin Lickert who at the time was chauffeur to Ringo Star. Martin arranged to bring John Bonham to visit us during the event to give support.

He duly came and stayed a couple of hours, firstly talking drums then sat behind our improvised double kit and while my friend just played the ride to keep his marathon going, John treated us to his hands only section of Moby Dick, answered questions and showed us anything we wanted to know.

I stood right behind his right shoulder while he played my kit talking to him as he played. Later we sat and had a pint, just one !

He talked drummer to drummer, a real nice, down to earth man, and I was very privileged that day, although I didn’t really know it at the time. All I have left of that kit is a cymbal and somewhere a press cutting of the event.

People knock him sometimes and say he wasn’t a nice person. I met him and he was just one of the lads, a genuine guy who was quite willing to come and support us mortals, to play and talk drums.

[thebard]

The local press were there and somewhere I have the news cutting. Will have to search and will also ask the marathon drummer mate if he has anything. Will scan and post it if possible.

[Abhishek]

I just heard Darlene. Unbelievable.

Anyone have a transcription of the fill at 3:28?

[Cozy]

I also forgot to mention Cozy Powell. Powell and Bonham were good friends and he was another peer of Bonzo's that he respected as well. And yes Carmine was another peer that he respected, when Vanilla Fudge was the headliner for one Zeppelins first tours Carmine and Bonzo were always trading ideas. And Carmine is responsible for getting Bonham the Ludwig endorsement.

An interesting note, that after Bonham's death Cozy Powell was the only drummer that Zep considered as a replacement, for various reasons, before deciding to not carry on.

[beastdrummagirl]

In my opion one of the greatest drummers of all time, Fool In The Rain, When The Levee Breaks, Poor Tom all great grooves. Moby Dick...out of this world and Good Times Bad Times with all the triplets and his lightning fast foot. And D'yer Maker the very first Zeppelin song i could play. One thing i loved about John Bonham is that all his drums seem to fit in the song. Any other comments on John Bonham


p.s. My first post :)

I think John is simple yet complex. He's got a great GREAT bass foot. and his grooves are amazing. a great example of the "simple yet complex" idea is the amazing Kashmir. Simple yet complex. thats how amazing he is. :)

[bonzolead]

I think John is simple yet complex. He's got a great GREAT bass foot. and his grooves are amazing. a great example of the "simple yet complex" idea is the amazing Kashmir. Simple yet complex. thats how amazing he is. :)
and complex listen too "the Crunge" & "Achilles Last Stand" no over the top complex but jammin' none the less.

Bonzolead

[jamest]

Bonham had a really well balanced mix of feel and complexity/technicality. He added in just the right amount of technical stuff to make a groove into something special.
__________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

http://www.excellent-offers.com/gravy1.jpg

[nhzoso]

I know he has a fast right foot but you cannot tell me he is playing single pedal on this part at 3:21 is he??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig&feature=player_embedded#!

[PaiceFan]

He was absolutely using a single pedal. Ludwig Speed King in fact. Double pedals were not comercially available until many years after his death.

[Ian Williams]

Mr. Bonham was not addict to double bass drum, in fact he only played it once but the rest of the Zeps nerver liked it. As far as twin pedal usage, at that time, era is hard to believe.

Out of the subject: not even Ian Paice used twin pedal at that time. He only played double bass drum for the song "Fireball".

[kevdrummer28]

Does anyone know if John used a wood beater, or a felt beater on his Speed King? I only ask because I've heard a few rumors it was wooden, and when I met Jason, he used one wooden beater, and one felt beater on his DW8002 pedals.

[Fox622003]

I know he has a fast right foot but you cannot tell me he is playing single pedal on this part at 3:21 is he??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig&feature=player_embedded#!


Isn't that even slower than Good Times Bad Times? Why wouldn't he be playing a single pedal?
Can you *really* not play that with a single pedal? Give it a try. Bonham's just fast in the myth in my opinion. I really like his drumming, though.


Fox.

[kevdrummer28]

I know he has a fast right foot but you cannot tell me he is playing single pedal on this part at 3:21 is he??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig&feature=player_embedded#!

Of coarse he's playing with a single pedal. It's tough even for naturals to learn; to give you an idea of how tough, his own son has to use double pedals; he can't even play his dad's music with a single.

[Fox622003]

Of coarse he's playing with a single pedal. It's tough even for naturals to learn; to give you an idea of how tough, his own son has to use double pedals; he can't even play his dad's music with a single.

I remit you to my post below. Bonham is a nice drummer; but by NO means fast. Have you heard any drummers in the past...30 years? Jason can easily play what Bonham plays with a single, heck, 90% of professional drummers can. If he says otherwise, or uses a double pedal for single parts (which I doubt), it's probably just to elevate his father's playing.
As I said in my original post, can you *really* not do it? Then it's you who's more special than Bonham in regards to bass drum speed.

[kevdrummer28]

I remit you to my post below. Bonham is a nice drummer; but by NO means fast. Have you heard any drummers in the past...30 years? Jason can easily play what Bonham plays with a single, heck, 90% of professional drummers can. If he says otherwise, or uses a double pedal for single parts (which I doubt), it's probably just to elevate his father's playing.
As I said in my original post, can you *really* not do it? Then it's you who's more special than Bonham.

His foot is fast. And, I highly doubt 90% can do what he did. And as far as Jason, he doesn't use double for single parts, but mainly just in the fills. He only told me from his own mouth he couldn't do everything his dad did with a single. That's why I said that.

[Fox622003]

His foot is fast. And, I highly doubt 90% can do what he did. And as far as Jason, he doesn't use double for single parts, but mainly just in the fills. He only told me from his own mouth he couldn't do everything his dad did with a single. That's why I said that.

Mike Mangini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_A4AlFmFLg)

Steve Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQfrD9sHD48)

Jason Bonham (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxd23zGBaYQ)

Some YouTube unknown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5KsuCLY2PE)

Just type for a drum cover of that one, pretty much everyone who isn't a beginner gets it right. What does Bonham really play faster than that part in GTBT? Even faster stuff was and is being done constantly.
I think it's actually negative to Bonham's reputation to go on and on about bass drum speed, when he should be taken into account for so many other things.
As for Jason, yeah he's got a video in which he explains his "left hand isn't as strong as his father's was" or something like that. But really, he's a professional, do you honestly believe there's something stopping him from practicing for a couple of months and getting a 5 times stronger hand than Bonham? I am pretty sure, as I said before, that Jason just likes to honor and elevate his father everytime he's talking about him; as I don't see any other explanation to this.
And yeah, I know those guys hardly constitute 90% of all professional drummers, but not all sessionists and so got youtube videos playing relatively fast on the single pedal; doesn't mean they can't (easily) do it.


Fox.

[kevdrummer28]

Mike Mangini (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_A4AlFmFLg)

Steve Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQfrD9sHD48)

Jason Bonham (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxd23zGBaYQ)

Some YouTube unknown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5KsuCLY2PE)

Just type for a drum cover of that one, pretty much everyone who isn't a beginner gets it right. What does Bonham really play faster than that part in GTBT? Even faster stuff was and is being done constantly.
I think it's actually negative to Bonham's reputation to go on and on about bass drum speed, when he should be taken into account for so many other things.
As for Jason, yeah he's got a video in which he explains his "left hand isn't as strong as his father's was" or something like that. But really, he's a professional, do you honestly believe there's something stopping him from practicing for a couple of months and getting a 5 times stronger hand than Bonham? I am pretty sure, as I said before, that Jason just likes to honor and elevate his father everytime he's talking about him; as I don't see any other explanation to this.
And yeah, I know those guys hardly constitute 90% of all professional drummers, but not all sessionists and so got youtube videos playing relatively fast on the single pedal; doesn't mean they can't (easily) do it.


Fox.

John had great speed with his bass, nothing negative could come from it. And yes a lot of other drummers could do it, but he was the one who did it first with a single pedal.

And you're really not getting it, Jason said he can't do everything his dad did on the bass.. He even said "I've tried and tried."

No-one will ever reach John's level entirely.

[Thaard]

Comparing drummers again eh? *sigh*
This will never end..

[Ian Williams]

Well, if John had or had not a fast right foot. You can ask Jimi Hendrix at his graveyard, who stated to Robert Plant once, that John had a right foot like an Spanish castanets! isn't that fast?

[DrumsTheWord]

I've always been a massive fan of John Bonham. I studied the guy for many years trying to work out he played all those great chops and licks!.

I've written and recorded thirty three individual video drum lessons teaching his best beats and fills from nine Led Zeppelin tracks. It's now available for download from my website (http://www.drumstheword.com/john-bonham-ultimate-video-drum-lesson-collection) and if there's one thing I've learned from doing this project was that there is WAY more to the man than meets the ears. A true legend!

Rob

[bonzolead]

I know he has a fast right foot but you cannot tell me he is playing single pedal on this part at 3:21 is he??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig&feature=player_embedded#!
yes that is just one pedal one incredible right foot....that is his famous 32nd beat. Bonham also did great hi-hat work also. Listen too "Poor Tom" off of Coda & you'll know what I mean.

Bonzolead

[bonzolead]

Well, if John had or had not a fast right foot. You can ask Jimi Hendrix at his graveyard, who stated to Robert Plant once, that John had a right foot like an Spanish castanets! isn't that fast?

Ian i've never heard that before. learn something new everyday.

Bonzolead

[mxo721]

after 30 some odd years, I had grown tired of most LZ's stuff, now that I have been ( trying) to learn drums, those songs are brand new again, cause i only listen to the drum parts now, amazing.

[Bonzodownunder]

Does anyone on here know or is ther a "Bonzo/Paiste" expert on here that knows what brand/model cymbals &sizes he used BEFORE his official signed Paiste agreement in july 71? &if he used different weights in the studio &live?
Ta mates! :)
Ado.
P.S.You all have a beaut/bonza&grouse xmas&new year! :).

[scorch whammin]

I remit you to my post below. Bonham is a nice drummer; but by NO means fast. Have you heard any drummers in the past...30 years? Jason can easily play what Bonham plays with a single, heck, 90% of professional drummers can. If he says otherwise, or uses a double pedal for single parts (which I doubt), it's probably just to elevate his father's playing.
As I said in my original post, can you *really* not do it? Then it's you who's more special than Bonham in regards to bass drum speed.

P-L-E-A-S-E!....how come most of the time when I read one of your posts...you're stirring something up...very few drummers I know have or had a r. foot like bonham's...including his son whom I met many years ago and so stated (hence his use of a dbl. pedal in certain parts)...Bonham is clearly a drumming icon (and should be) and he's certainly one of the most emulated/immitated rock drummers out there!....and certainly FAST!

[Fox622003]

P-L-E-A-S-E!....how come most of the time when I read one of your posts...you're stirring something up...very few drummers I know have or had a r. foot like bonham's...including his son whom I met many years ago and so stated (hence his use of a dbl. pedal in certain parts)...Bonham is clearly a drumming icon (and should be) and he's certainly one of the most emulated/immitated rock drummers out there!....and certainly FAST!

Show me footage in which you consider Bonham's playing at his top speed, chances are there are hundreds of links of drummers playing faster. I don't mean to bring Bonham down, as I said, he's a great drummer; it just really ins't about his bass drum speed.
The point behind my posts in this thread was that if you look up to Bonham as a reference for speed, you should look somewhere else; he's cool for his unique groove and sound.


Fox.

[TFITTING942]

Show me footage in which you consider Bonham's playing at his top speed, chances are there are hundreds of links of drummers playing faster. I don't mean to bring Bonham down, as I said, he's a great drummer; it just really ins't about his bass drum speed.
The point behind my posts in this thread was that if you look up to Bonham as a reference for speed, you should look somewhere else; he's cool for his unique groove and sound.


Fox.

OK fox I get it, your better than Bonham ever was.

[bonzolead]

For all you non-believers out there................http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_oxPrz2nH8&feature=related too bad RP should've said John Bonham drums lol

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

Here is brother:

From Jimmy Hendrix:

"That drummer of yours has a right foot like a pair of castanets!"
Source: Thunder Of Drums - To Robert Plant after a Led Zeppelin concert

Ian i've never heard that before. learn something new everyday.

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

From: Jeff Ocheltree (Drum Technician) about John Bonham.

"There was anger and a bitterness that was starting to form in him. In interviews he was never ever asked questions about his playing, about the time signatures or patterns he used. In fact he was never asked any intelligent questions. I used to spend days and nights with him at the Rainbow Bar & I remember him saying to me, "These idiots don't know anything about drums. All they want to know about is the gossip." In fact John listened to Max Roach, Alphonse Mouzon, Elvin Jones, and a lot of fusion and jazz drummers. That's the thing that gets me about John Bonham - everybody thinks he was into big drums and hitting them real hard. Bonham was into swing and playing with technique. I once heard Jimmy Page play a Django Reinhardt tune at a sound check, and John played along."

Source: Thunder Of Drums

[bonzolead]

Here is brother:

From Jimmy Hendrix:

"That drummer of yours has a right foot like a pair of castanets!"
Source: Thunder Of Drums - To Robert Plant after a Led Zeppelin concert

this is pitiful Ian I have that book & didn't. realize that statement was in there. I've been reading the Richard Cole's(Zeppelin's tour manager) Led-Zeppelin biography lately very good book all about the debauchery of Zep gotta love it. lol

Bonzolead

[chadlius]

Anyone who's been named the greatest anything is going to be called overrated by somebody. Calling John Bonham or Ringo Starr or Neil Peart or whoever overrated is just something people say when they don't have any real argument to make about the person's drumming.

Not sure I'd call him the best drummer ever, but definitely among the best.

PLEASE DO ME A FAVOUR. we all have our favourite drummers, but never again mention ringo" talentless " star in the same breath as john bohnam and neil peart. the man was, and still is, a useless, clueless comedy drum clown. my dog's got more rhythem, groove n feel when he's shagging his bed

[chadlius]

Does anyone on here know or is ther a "Bonzo/Paiste" expert on here that knows what brand/model cymbals &sizes he used BEFORE his official signed Paiste agreement in july 71? &if he used different weights in the studio &live?
Ta mates! :)
Ado.
P.S.You all have a beaut/bonza&grouse xmas&new year! :).

i may be wrong but i'm pretty sure he used paiste throughout his time with zep. starting with giant beats ( 15" hi's, 18&20 crash and 24" ride ) which he used for the first 4 or 5 albums before switching to the 2002 range, same sizes.

[Fox622003]

ringo" talentless " star

I know it's this guy's second post here, but shouldn't he be banned or sumthin'?


Fox.

[KarlCrafton]

PLEASE DO ME A FAVOUR. we all have our favourite drummers, but never again mention ringo" talentless " star in the same breath as john bohnam and neil peart. the man was, and still is, a useless, clueless comedy drum clown. my dog's got more rhythem, groove n feel when he's shagging his bed


I don't agree with that, and I'm sure Bonham & Peart would agree that you are just wrong as well.

If you just "don't like what he's done" that's one thing, but the rest is ignorance and bashing hiding behind a computer.

Like it or not, Ringo changed a lot of things, just like Krupa did, like Buddy did, Bonham, Peart, Weckl, Grohl etc.....
The Beatles STILL sell millions of units per year, 40 years after they broke up, and it's not because it sucked.

Grammar, spelling, and punctuation also help you in being taken seriously. Have a fun life.

Regarding Fox's comments, I get what he's saying on his points.

I'm of the sort that doesn't care HOW Bonham technically did something, but WHY he did things.
Once you get the techiniques shown to you, or you figure them out, it's up to the individual to get them down, and consistent, so they can be played at any speed someone wants to do them.

His feel is what's different than anyone elses, but you can argue that ANYONE is different for everyone else.

For ME, it's the feel of what he's played. He did a lot of it "first" too, and he WAS and still is, considered "great" by people. IMO rightly so.

ALL the players back then held him in high regard because he was a monster player. What he did still resonates 30 years after he died, so that's saying something. Keith Moon too.

Carmine did a lot of that stuff before Bonham, and he's the source of at least some of his stuff.
People somehow seem to get pissed when that gets mentioned sometimes. Facts are facts though.
Before YouTube got really going, hardly any of us even knew what his voice sounded like. I didn't.
I really wish there was more interviews and "drum stuff" with Bonham so we knew what he was thinking.

As far as "fast", personally, I couldn't give 2shits. There's people playing now that are faster than Buddy Rich (who was freakin' fast when he wanted), and they play just as well. But, Buddy was a musician and did what drove his band. and made everything sound great too. The "audience" just went "WOW!" over the fast stuff.
But back then, who could do any of that fast stuff? There were a couple, but not as famous.
They weren't on the Carson show...and the Muppets :-).

Some people don't want to hear about drummers being as good as Buddy either, but it's been a long time since he came on the scene and was "better than everyone else".

That's not taking anything away from what Buddy did at all. He WAS "a master" of the instrument. People still love his stuff today (just like Ringo's!). That's what really counts. It makes people happy and moves them in some way.

Phillips, Smith, Mangini....There's tons of guy's that blow people away now, and that's just the evolution of the instrument.
And, IMO it's not a competition, and there's no "this is the end, that's all there is, it's doesn't get better" with drumming anyway.

[paistemage]

Well, bonham inspired drummers the world over and will until the end of time.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

PLEASE DO ME A FAVOUR. we all have our favourite drummers, but never again mention ringo" talentless " star in the same breath as john bohnam and neil peart. the man was, and still is, a useless, clueless comedy drum clown. my dog's got more rhythem, groove n feel when he's shagging his bed

Man, how did I miss this little pearl of wisdom??

Sometimes it's better to keep ones mouth shut and appear ignorant, than to open it and remove all doubt.

[Thaard]

Man, how did I miss this little pearl of wisdom??

Sometimes it's better to keep ones mouth shut and appear ingnorant, than to open it and remove all doubt.

Funny thing is, that he let's his dog do it's "bizznes" in their bed.

[Bonzodownunder]

Both John&Jason Bonham are my reason to exist/live! :).My absolute/definite heros&inspiration&motivation for not only playing drums but living!.Without them i wouldn,t be writing this as i'd be either dead or not able to play due to alcoholism! :(.Does anyone have any advice/tips on dealing with :anxiety/depression&negativity&panic attacks?.I asked for this exact&same advice on a Melbourne(Australia) based webiste(not drummer based) &got bullied on there to the point of having to change both my username&password because of both the negativity&trolls on there.Because of this my name is mud in terms of getting a gig!.They have attempted&tried to stop me getting a gig on there!(website) &because of this my anxiety&depression&panic ataacts have increased to the point of not even wanting to look at my "boom booms/cannons".If there's another Melbourne based musos forum/website i'd join it in a flash!.Sorry to bore you with my problems&thanks for reading&your consideration
Adrian.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

Does anyone have any advice/tips on dealing with :anxiety/depression&negativity&panic attacks?.

Give 'em a call : http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?

[Bonzodownunder]

Does anyone on here (a Bonham /Paiste "expert/guru") know what brand/model/series&sizes he played on Led Zeppelin(debut/self titled) album?.

[Stickson]

Does anyone on here (a Bonham /Paiste "expert/guru") know what brand/model/series&sizes he played on Led Zeppelin(debut/self titled) album?.

No, but there was a 2007 Traps article available on the net (drummerzone?) that had a one page fairly detailed run down of all his equipment at various times although not by album.

[bonzolead]

Does anyone on here (a Bonham /Paiste "expert/guru") know what brand/model/series&sizes he played on Led Zeppelin(debut/self titled) album?.
Ludwigs & Zildjians(this was before he got endorsed by Paiste) I know it was a 24" bass drum instead of 26" as he is well known for & it was a 4-piece not a 5-piece, 1 floor-tom not sure if it was a 16" or 18" & a 14" tom, also not sure of the cymbals types just know they were Zildjians.

Hopefully this helps out a little bit.

Bonzolead

[tamadrm]

PLEASE DO ME A FAVOUR. we all have our favourite drummers, but never again mention ringo" talentless " star in the same breath as john bohnam and neil peart. the man was, and still is, a useless, clueless comedy drum clown. my dog's got more rhythem, groove n feel when he's shagging his bed
That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.Few drummers will agree with that comment on any level.All of the pros I know or have spoken to would just probablely just stare at you in disbelief.You obviously don't have an objective or well trained ear when it comes to groove so i have to believe you are both in your teens and a believer in more is better...get out of my way so I can play this fill kind of drummer.Sad.

Steve B

[tamadrm]

I know he has a fast right foot but you cannot tell me he is playing single pedal on this part at 3:21 is he??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig&feature=player_embedded#!

There WHERE no double pedels then.Ludwig Speed king was his choice..

[Chris71]

Not only an amazing drummer,but he had an amazing drum SOUND. Many times you will get one without the other.

[Chris71]

That has to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.Few drummers will agree with that comment on any level.All of the pros I know or have spoken to would just probablely just stare at you in disbelief.You obviously don't have an objective or well trained ear when it comes to groove so i have to believe you are both in your teens and a believer in more is better...get out of my way so I can play this fill kind of drummer.Sad.

Steve B

Agreed. Seems most good drummers absolutely give Ringo the credit he deserves. There's alot more to Ringo's drumming than most realize.

[strangefruit]

Bonzo is and always will be #1 in my humble opinion.
My kit's a tribute to the most creative and amazing rock drummer of all times :
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71869

[TFITTING942]

Bonzo is and always will be #1 in my humble opinion.
My kit's a tribute to the most creative and amazing rock drummer of all times :
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71869

Nice kit, I like the silver sparkle.

[Ian Williams]

I certainly agree, John has/had feel and technique. Your kit is an honourable tribute to Mr. Bonham, keep up the good work!

[willzepfan]

i just watched the song remains the same agine and i now thay played three nites and i belive he used the 18 and 20 inch floor toms the whole three nites does anyone agree

[willzepfan]

If your looking for a good Bonham exercise try hitting tom,bass drum,floor tom,hit only one drum at a time start slow and then increase the tempo steadily remember no two drums should hit at the same time I can't. read music or tab so I hope you understand
this is a good exercise for your hand,feet cordination.Bonham was such a feel,groove type player wit a incredible right foot so you really got to have a good meter and i don't. mean metranome I mean enternally. good luck.

Bonzolead

if your looking for a good bonham exercise try pounding spike nails into a board with two hammers like he did useing his fill technic

[tml_fan_5@hotmail.com]

The thing about Bonham is that he used really big drums. He used an LM 402, which is a deeper snare drum, I believe a 14" rack tom and a 16" and 18" floor toms, not to mention a 26" bass, which is 4 inches larger than the regular 22" bass. For a classic rock sound, get large drums, and tune them lower... thats what Bonham did, and his sound is one of the most sought after sounds in drum history.

[Liebe zeit]

For a classic rock sound, get large drums, and tune them lower... thats what Bonham didNo, Bonham tuned high. He was a product of the jazz era. Check out his former drum tech's video on his tuning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMqHqADnREY

[Ian Williams]

John Bonham drum-set configuration with Led Zeppelin.

1968 Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl Kit:

9" x 13" Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor tom
14" x 24" Bass Drum

1969 Ludwig Thermo Gloss Natural Maple Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
12" x 15" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom (added later on)
14" x 26" Bass Drum
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Cymbal Holder

1970 Ludwig Green Sparkle Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
10" x 14" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

1973 Ludwig Amber Vistalite Kit:

6.5" x 14"Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
10" x 14" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16 " x18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

1975 Ludwig Silver Sparkle Kit (recording Presence)

1975 Ludwig Vistalite Kit In Black And White Pattern C: Spiral (for personal jamming)

1977 Ludwig Stainless Steel Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
12" x 15" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Double Tom Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

...I hope is of your interest at all...Cheers,

The thing about Bonham is that he used really big drums. He used an LM 402, which is a deeper snare drum, I believe a 14" rack tom and a 16" and 18" floor toms, not to mention a 26" bass, which is 4 inches larger than the regular 22" bass. For a classic rock sound, get large drums, and tune them lower... thats what Bonham did, and his sound is one of the most sought after sounds in drum history.

[bonzolead]

John Bonham drum-set configuration with Led Zeppelin.

1968 Ludwig Black Diamond Pearl Kit:

9" x 13" Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor tom
14" x 24" Bass Drum

1969 Ludwig Thermo Gloss Natural Maple Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
12" x 15" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom (added later on)
14" x 26" Bass Drum
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Cymbal Holder

1970 Ludwig Green Sparkle Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
10" x 14" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

1973 Ludwig Amber Vistalite Kit:

6.5" x 14"Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
10" x 14" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16 " x18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

1975 Ludwig Silver Sparkle Kit (recording Presence)

1975 Ludwig Vistalite Kit In Black And White Pattern C: Spiral (for personal jamming)

1977 Ludwig Stainless Steel Kit:

6.5" x 14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
12" x 15" Mounted Tom
16" x 16" Floor Tom
16" x 18" Floor Tom
14" x 26" Bass Drum with Double Tom Mount
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

...I hope is of your interest at all...Cheers,Ian, first off great avatar but "Presence" was recorded in 1976 & I believe he used the GS Ludwigs he always recorded with them throughout his career.

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

Good point, brother!...hmm I thought - Presence - was recorded in studio in November 1975.

Ian, first off great avatar but "Presence" was recorded in 1976 & I believe he used the GS Ludwigs he always recorded with them throughout his career.

Bonzolead

[tamadrm]

The thing about Bonham is that he used really big drums. He used an LM 402, which is a deeper snare drum, I believe a 14" rack tom and a 16" and 18" floor toms, not to mention a 26" bass, which is 4 inches larger than the regular 22" bass. For a classic rock sound, get large drums, and tune them lower... thats what Bonham did, and his sound is one of the most sought after sounds in drum history.

Actually Bonzo drums were pitched much higher than you might think.There is a video of Jeff Ocheltree who was Bonzo's drum tech for some time explaining the tuning of his drums,as well as what drum heads and cymbals he used with demos .Check it out.I was an eye opener for me.The Video can be acessed through the Drummerworld home page.Peace.

Steve B

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

No, Bonham tuned high.

Actually Bonzo drums were pitched much higher than you might think.

Yep indeedy.....big drums tuned up. And thank christ too. Those sizes tuned at JAW would sound horrible IMHO.

FWIW, does anyone know when JAW tuning came to the forefront? Is it a newer phenomenon or have people been doing it since Adam was a boy and I've somehow managed to miss it for so long? I'd actually never met or heard of a drummer tuning at JAW prior to joining DW. Seems there are plenty doing it and I don't quite understand why it's a desirable sound.....no tone, no projection, no life, for mine.


I believe he used the GS Ludwigs he always recorded with them throughout his career.


Anyone got the skinny on this? I always thought the SS kit came into play around the Presence era too. For both live and studio?

Might be time for a flick through of 'A Thunder of Drums' again. :-)

[iwantmemoney]

I'd actually never met or heard of a drummer tuning at JAW prior to joining DW. Seems there are plenty doing it and I don't quite understand why it's a desirable sound.....no tone, no projection, no life, for mine. :-)

golden pocket what does JAW stand for?
thanks.

[Pocket-full-of-gold]

golden pocket what does JAW stand for?
thanks.

Just Above Wrinkle.....basically the first tone you get out of a drum head after tuning the wrinkles out of it.

More common on bass drum heads, but you'll note there's quite a few here who tune toms and even snares this way as well. Way too low for my tastes.

[Bull]

JAW tuning became popular with metal guys in the early 90s. It makes it easier to match up two kick drums and helps with the click that Death Metal guys like.

I think it spread along with the smaller tom sizes. It was just rock guys trying to get some depth out of 10/12/14/

[iwantmemoney]

Just Above Wrinkle.....basically the first tone you get out of a drum head after tuning the wrinkles out of it.

More common on bass drum heads, but you'll note there's quite a few here who tune toms and even snares this way as well. Way too low for my tastes.

thanks...i do this tuning myself, but never heard the term.... so much to read and catch up with-overwhelming! and i'm something of a bonham student myself, tho not way way deep like many here, in fact just started looking at this thread-all the links are treasures for sure.

the reason i choose the jaw tuning(well i don't choose it exclusively 1st of all)- for rock, it sits so well with the mics. i play to the mics period. therefore wherever i set up, even outside or a gymnasium, they always sound good(even when not mic'd). i would never have gotten to it if not for sitting in on a set one night with that tuning, and i knew instantly it was exactly what i had been looking for for pop and rock. but i don't tune my snare like that. cheers to aussie land.

[cdrums21]

As someone who is an experienced tuner and tunes drums to notes, I was curious as to what general notes each drum in Bonham's kit was tuned to. I have a 1970 Bonham kit identical to his (see below), so I wanted to try to tune it as close as I could to his actual tuning. My only resource, other than trying to cop the notes off of records (very difficult and probably not accurate), was the Jeff Ocheltree video on the Bonham kit here on Drummerworld and Youtube. If you go to the Jeff Ocheltree video on the tuning of Bonham's drums, at one point he goes around each drum and strikes the top and bottom heads with a mallet. If you listen closely you can hear very clearly what note the heads are tuned to. Also, when his friend Mark Romans plays the kit, you can get a good idea of what notes the toms are tuned to as well. As he says in the video, the heads are tuned alot higher than you would think. After hearing the notes on his kit, I tried that same tuning on my kit and found that this type of tuning is dead on in the high mid sweet spot of the drums and they sound phenomenal, big and powerful, the perfect amount of sustain and resonance, and with an eerie similarity to Bonham's sound. When I play "Four sticks" on the kit, I swear it sounds just like it! I am assuming that because my drums are the same as far as age and construction (clear maple interior, 3 ply with re-rings) the fundamental tone of the drums is similar and allowed me to tune the drums to those notes. I'm not sure if you could tune another kit with a different shell thickness and construction and get the same results.

Anyway, here are the notes that I came up with from the video. It is interesting to note that the drums are tuned in fourths, with the bottom head being about a third higher in pitch than the top head. 14" tom, top head A#, bottom head C#, 16" tom, top head F, bottom head A, 18" tom, top head C, bottom head E. The bass drum seems to be tuned to an F# on the batter and an A on the front head. The snare drum seems to be an A on top and a G on the bottom, with the bottom head being very tight.

[sparky88]

I love Bonzo's triplet style. He's is definetly one of my fav's.

[sparky88]

Yeah when you look at the tabs look's simple. But to get that sound.

[Ian Williams]

The Bonzo feel...no one can match it!

[SergiuM]

I LOVE BONHAM!
His drums sound HUGE.

[Drummer Sarah]

did any of you check those bonham drum outtakes.... a friend of mine sent me a link that had like 20 bonham drum outtakes!! haha.... i downloaded all of 'em... the link isn't active any more, but its just bonham and his massive drum sound! frikkin awesome! and my buddy who sent me the link, he's an ace guitar player...... he took one of the tracks, cut it up, and then made an entire tune out of it!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/2/blackstratblues_music.htm
check it out... its the first track there, its called 'evil'..... its instrumental, and has a friend of his making noises in the background, but its awesome. that's BONHAM playing drums. you'll know the instant you play the track.

Okay this messege is from 2005 but I have to say...I cannot stop listening to that song!! It rocks so freaking much! :D

John Bonham is what started all this off for my. Before he came along I never thought of drummers at all. Riffled through my Dads collection after getting sick of the Top 40 charts and found Led Zeppelin (I liked the name). It was the Physical Grafitti album :D I was loving the whole album but when it got to Sick Again I was thinking who the hell is this drummer? Got the Led Zep dvd on my birthday and was blown away. When it got to the drum solo...lets just say I probably looking like a mouth gaped mentalist. Possibly drooling? Also probably talking in tongues trying to make my mum understand that this was THE greatest drummer ever! At that point I didn't know he was the greatest. I didn't know he was always put in the top spot of drum polls and stuff. If someone with no drumming knowledge or experience can say that then he must be :D

[Drummer Sarah]

Happy Birthday to John Bonham for tomorrow! He would have been 63!

[KirbyM]

I saw Bonham with Zeppelin in 1973 at the old Atlanta Stadium. The amount of energy he expended during that show was unbelievable. I have not seen anyone play that hard since.

[Ian Williams]

Ringing true and heavy - and that right hand on the ride, feel...amazing!

[rolaball]

As someone who is an experienced tuner and tunes drums to notes, I was curious as to what general notes each drum in Bonham's kit was tuned to. I have a 1970 Bonham kit identical to his (see below), so I wanted to try to tune it as close as I could to his actual tuning. My only resource, other than trying to cop the notes off of records (very difficult and probably not accurate), was the Jeff Ocheltree video on the Bonham kit here on Drummerworld and Youtube. If you go to the Jeff Ocheltree video on the tuning of Bonham's drums, at one point he goes around each drum and strikes the top and bottom heads with a mallet. If you listen closely you can hear very clearly what note the heads are tuned to. Also, when his friend Mark Romans plays the kit, you can get a good idea of what notes the toms are tuned to as well. As he says in the video, the heads are tuned alot higher than you would think. After hearing the notes on his kit, I tried that same tuning on my kit and found that this type of tuning is dead on in the high mid sweet spot of the drums and they sound phenomenal, big and powerful, the perfect amount of sustain and resonance, and with an eerie similarity to Bonham's sound. When I play "Four sticks" on the kit, I swear it sounds just like it! I am assuming that because my drums are the same as far as age and construction (clear maple interior, 3 ply with re-rings) the fundamental tone of the drums is similar and allowed me to tune the drums to those notes. I'm not sure if you could tune another kit with a different shell thickness and construction and get the same results.

Anyway, here are the notes that I came up with from the video. It is interesting to note that the drums are tuned in fourths, with the bottom head being about a third higher in pitch than the top head. 14" tom, top head A#, bottom head C#, 16" tom, top head F, bottom head A, 18" tom, top head C, bottom head E. The bass drum seems to be tuned to an F# on the batter and an A on the front head. The snare drum seems to be an A on top and a G on the bottom, with the bottom head being very tight.That is the holy grail of drumkits in my opinion and coming from a guitar background I always wondered if you could tune to a key and tried the exact same thing using ocheltree but couldnt quite pull it off with my CB drums lol thanks for satisfying my curiosity!

[Steady Freddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FETM3CNpmcw&feature=related

[IronBlimp]

This bear of a man is why i started playing drums. i can listen to all of the twelve studio and live recordings of Moby Dick as well as the five Pats Delight in a row and not get bored- the dude made some holy noise

[inneedofgrace]

he could do more with his bare hands than I can do with sticks...

[pcmckay]

I posted a couple of videos of me playing Good Times, Bad Times, Fool In The Rain, and Hots On For Nowhere. Bonham is definitely my favorite and most influential drummer. Check out the videos and let me know what you think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWFMkllqqFQ&feature=feedu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYSqiP1UiJE&feature=feedu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N-Tw9a9qHw&feature=feedu

[Ian Williams]

John Bonham / Led Zeppelin - We're Gonna Grove...lovely bell ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTkVbZDFko&feature=related

[bonzolead]

John Bonham / Led Zeppelin - We're Gonna Grove...lovely bell ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTkVbZDFko&feature=related

Great Tune Ian, here's my favorite version of this tune from the same recordings.

Cheers,
Bonzolead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOuk8aeTVmo&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL753C13D4EC602D34

P.S. did not realize I was uploading the whole "CODA" album but that's sweet too. lmao

[zodiac666thrasher]

As everyone has already said God of the drums. always end up goin back to zeppelin songs to work on grooves

[resohead]

How does Jon Bonham make the hi-hat / crash sound at 1:35 and other places in the song?
His playing seems to have this searing sound to it.

Is it just strength / technique? I watched this many times several months ago and it just blows me away, as it should, I reckon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig

[opentune]

John Bonham / Led Zeppelin - We're Gonna Grove...lovely bell ride!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NTkVbZDFko&feature=related

this is an awesome performance, Royal Albert Hall. I watch it over and over. Major ride crashing. Anyway, his drumming lives up to the Paiste names he's using .... "Giant beats"

There are some much slower versions of We're Gonna Groove, even by Zep themselves (earlier tour) but its so cool how they sped it up here.

[Ian Williams]

Giant Beats...Giant Drummer...Giant Drumming...

this is an awesome performance, Royal Albert Hall. I watch it over and over. Major ride crashing. Anyway, his drumming lives up to the Paiste names he's using .... "Giant beats"

There are some much slower versions of We're Gonna Groove, even by Zep themselves (earlier tour) but its so cool how they sped it up here.

[KarlCrafton]

How does Jon Bonham make the hi-hat / crash sound at 1:35 and other places in the song?
His playing seems to have this searing sound to it.

Is it just strength / technique? I watched this many times several months ago and it just blows me away, as it should, I reckon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dvrir5kig

Right hand crashing hat, left hand hits cymbal as he puts his foot down to close hats.

[Swiss Matthias]

LOL, he does look exactly like Pippin, as someone in the comments stated :)!

[Pollyanna]

LOL, he does look exactly like Pippin, as someone in the comments stated :)!

lol - it's true! I read the posts before listening to the link and was confused, wondering how on earth Bonzo could look like Pippin :)

Bonzo clearly kept working on new things. In early vids his stroke didn't look as smooth as it does in the Kashmir clip. When I first bought Presence I was shocked to hear him play a Cobhamesque monster fill in Achilles Last Stand. The Fool in the Rain half time shuffle sounded like a new toy too.

[Anurdrums]

The godfather of rock drumming.

[resohead]

Right hand crashing hat, left hand hits cymbal as he puts his foot down to close hats.

I'm wondering how he gets that sound. I've never heard anyone else s hi-hat and crash sound like that. Doesn't matter really it's just incredible playing.

[Stickson]

When I first bought Presence I was shocked to hear him play a Cobhamesque monster fill in [I]Achilles Last Stand.

Jimmy Page mentions that very fill in the Traps Magazine piece on Bonzo (2007), referring to it, with serious understatement as "absolute magic."

[Pollyanna]

Jimmy Page mentions that very fill in the Traps Magazine piece on Bonzo (2007), referring to it, with serious understatement as "absolute magic."

The whole take is magic. Also love the snare/cymbal flurries - powerful and super effective. The groove he keeps with Jimmy Page is killer too. Would have liked a bit more dynamics in that song, though ...

*ducks*

[unfunkyfooted]

Right hand crashing hat, left hand hits cymbal as he puts his foot down to close hats.

plus phase shifter (or flanger) on the cymbals. sometimes the studio recordings were slowed down to create the swells on cymbals and boom on drums (When The Levee Breaks).

and even the big cymbal crash in the live version of No Quarter from The Song Remains The Same contains flange (or phase shifter). Dazed And Confused (from The Song Remains The Same is actually slowed down.