John Bonham

[Pocketman]

Bonham was very influenced by Soul and R&B drummers. A major influence was Bernard Purdie. I believe that the "Purdie Shuffle" which he played on tracks like "Babylon Sisters" and "Home At Last" by Steely Dan influned Bonham's beat on "Fool In The Rain."

[Goody602]

OK Handito off the top of my head:

First off, pocketman is right about Bernard Purdie and the half-time shuffle, the figure is generally considered his brainchild. The interesting thing is, and I'm pretty sure but not positive about this, Purdie's most famous use of it in a song (Babylon Sisters) was recorded after Fool In The Rain, but the influence for Fool in the Rain is definitely Purdie.

In several earlier versions of 'Moby Dick,' (Including Royal Albert Hall footage) Bonham starts the solo off with a figure where he plays a swing pattern on the snare and toms simultaneously that is a direct homage to Max Roach's 'The Drum also Waltzes.'

One book I read said that Bonham was very much into cream and Ginger Baker, and you can hear this was definitely an influence on his thunderous snare-bass-tom fills as Baker played similar patterns before him. Buddy Rich did at times too. I think Rich was Bonham's influence for drum sound. The tuning is very similar between the two. He credited the bass drum triplet inspiration to a Vanilla Fudge record, I believe a cover of the Beatles 'Ticket to Ride,' thinking that Carmine Appice was playing one bass drum when he was really playing two.

As far as Bonham's influence over other drummers, I really think it is so massive you could write a whole book about it. You can hear obvious influences in 70's-80's guys like Bobby Rondinelli, Cozy Powell, Nicko McBrain, and Frankie Banali up to more modern guys like Stephen Perkins, Danny Carey and Jon Theodore. I don't think it's an overstatement to say that 80 or 90% of rock drummers out there have taken something from his playing and would probably quote him as an influence.

His exact kit sizes are even being used more on stages. The guy from the Killers plays a Bonham set. So does the guy from the Black Crowes. So does Joey Castillo. So does Taylor Hawkins. Abe Laboriel Jr. plays a kit that has even bigger sizes but was probably Bonham influenced. If you look in a music catalog you'll find more kits with 24" and 26" bass drums then you ever would have 10 years ago. Those were mostly custom sizes. Just last year, Paiste re-released Giant Beats, the cymbals he made famous from Zeppelin II--IV. 2oo2's are Paiste's most successful line largely because of him. The black label versions of the sizes he played go for double what they are worth on eBay because people are looking for vintage Bonham. He still has the drum sound everyone is after. Hope this helps somewhat.

[Synthetik]

Here is Mike Portnoy's "Hammer of the Gods" Moby Dick solo.

I don't think it sounds totally Bonham...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0r9vCqZRc

[CyclopseSlayer]

As pointed out in the Bonham biography "A Thunder of Drums" Bonham was definitely influenced by Joe Morello of the Dave Brubeck Quartet. Listen to the version of "Castilian Drums" on Morello's drummerworld page, you will hear a lot of things that Bonham later utilized such as playing with his hands, triplets between hands and right foot, and double strokes on the bass drum.

[michael drums]

Here is Mike Portnoy's "Hammer of the Gods" Moby Dick solo.

I don't think it sounds totally Bonham...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ0r9vCqZRc

Hey Synthetik! With all do respect, OF COURSE it doesn't sound totally Bonham! That would be impossible. No one drummer sounds like another. That's the beauty of it. Portnoy doesn't need to sound exactly like who he's paying tribute to, in order to be successfull at doing that. I think he does an excellent performance here. And, he wouldn't want to sound exactly like Bonzo anyway. He wants to sound like himself playing Bonzo. Take Care and Play On!

[Synthetik]

Hey Synthetik! With all do respect, OF COURSE it doesn't sound totally Bonham! That would be impossible. No one drummer sounds like another. That's the beauty of it. Portnoy doesn't need to sound exactly like who he's paying tribute to, in order to be successfull at doing that. I think he does an excellent performance here. And, he wouldn't want to sound exactly like Bonzo anyway. He wants to sound like himself playing Bonzo. Take Care and Play On!

I wasn't dissing Mike. I see that he did his own thing. I like the sound of his Tama kit as well. I have the DVD on order.

[NUTHA JASON]

at the moment i'm loving and learning this bit from 'i can't quit you babe' (first album version - halfway through the song)

HH |X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..
SN |.........X.................X........etc
BD |X.....X......xx.xxX.....X......xx.xx
................\3/\3/............\3/\3/


john's bass drum is so fragile in its placement throughout the song so almost naive but perfect and then he starts the tour de force bass triplets. it is a great song to learn.

j

[NUTHA JASON]

holy moully i'm having a bonham day today!

after messing around with 6/8 blues i was flipping around my CDs randomly and blang! i hit four-sticks. now i know there must be some drummers here who can play it but to me it has always been an everest to climb ... scratch that... an olympus mons. heck even bonzo was exhausted after playing it.
in the past i have listened to that song hundreds of times, tweaking my EQ to try and bring out the drums and really hear what master bonzo is doing. today i just went for it. pulsing the bass in a dynamic way while riding on my floor tom and accenting with my left on the mid tom and just hacking at it with all my heart and gradually i found the pattern. i'm over the moon about this i tells ye! i still haven't added in the rim clicks and the hihat pedalling but those are the ornaments...the bread and butter of the beat is down for the first time. and man is the top of my right leg burning from the effort! but i got it and the funny thing is i still have no idea how to count it or even chart it...i will just have to heart it.

does anyone play this song? does anyone know how to count it?

j

[Goody602]

does anyone play this song? does anyone know how to count it?

I've tried to play it and I believe I've come up with something that sounds close but--agreed, it's really tough to figure out exactly what he's doing, so it's probably not spot on, I put the rim clicks in randomly. And no I have no idea how to count it I just play it by feel. I do like the fact that when you break it down, as with so many sections of Bonham's solos, the footwork in 'Four Sticks' is really just him running on his pedals, but the tom patterns he plays over it, with the accents, give it such an awesome feel and make it sound much more complicated.

[shuffle]

Alternating 5/4 and 6/8.

Starts with four bars of 5/4, followed by two bars of 6/8, then two 5/4, ... (gotta stop here, I am at work - and probably look silly counting bars - but you get the idea.)

Some other info here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Sticks

Recorded with four sticks ? Is that accurate ? Am I the only one who didn't knew that ?

[NUTHA JASON]

yeah i have a book that describes track by track history of led zep. they tried it a couple of times and it wasn't working then bonzo used four sticks and it was one take. thankfully. he was exhausted after that. according to history ive read they never performed it again.

actually i suspect the whole song is in 5


1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5

j

[Womble]

actually i suspect the whole song is in 5

Shouldn't maths teachers be able to count? ;) Shuffle is quite right. It starts with 4 bars of 5 followed by 2 bars of 6. Parts of the verse are all in 5. The entire chorus is in 6.

[michael drums]

I wasn't dissing Mike. I see that he did his own thing. I like the sound of his Tama kit as well. I have the DVD on order.

Cool. Should be a great vid. Yes, that Tama kit sounds nice. Very resonant all around. Thanks and Play On! ;-)

[michael drums]

at the moment i'm loving and learning this bit from 'i can't quit you babe' (first album version - halfway through the song)

HH |X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..
SN |.........X.................X........etc
BD |X.....X......xx.xxX.....X......xx.xx
................\3/\3/............\3/\3/


john's bass drum is so fragile in its placement throughout the song so almost naive but perfect and then he starts the tour de force bass triplets. it is a great song to learn.

j

Thanks Nutha! Simple diagraph, not so simple to play though, huh? Shouldn't take long to nail it I suspect. Peace....Play On!

[crumbdrums]

. I like the sound of his Tama kit as well. I have the DVD on order.
Really? I think those toms sound like he has pillows stuffed inside them! I could hardly hear them.

[Synthetik]

Really? I think those toms sound like he has pillows stuffed inside them! I could hardly hear them.

I had mine running through a pretty powerful system. The biggest fault I noticed was lack of midrange. They weren't "Bonzo boomy" but they weren't dead either.

They definately did not sound as good as Lang's Copenhagen solo on Sonor X-ray drums.

But I have a shocking confession to make: *I* actually *LIKE* the sound of drums that don't have sustain forever. *I* actually enjoy the "dead" sound occasionally.

It's all good.
http://www.synthetictubs.com/pearl%20wood%20fiberglass%20cat%201.jpg

[Juan Victor]

hello you bonzos im a guy from Tenerife (Canary Islands). Useless to say anything about John. can anybody tell me which was the set of cymbals used by bonham in The Song Remains concert and Physical Graffity

[bonzolead]

hello you bonzos im a guy from Tenerife (Canary Islands). Useless to say anything about John. can anybody tell me which was the set of cymbals used by bonham in The Song Remains concert and Physical Graffity
Paiste 2002's I believe he had 15" hi-hats,18" crash,20" crash,24" ride & 16" crash

I think.

Bonzolead

[themac5150]

holy moully i'm having a bonham day today!

after messing around with 6/8 blues i was flipping around my CDs randomly and blang! i hit four-sticks. now i know there must be some drummers here who can play it but to me it has always been an everest to climb ... scratch that... an olympus mons. heck even bonzo was exhausted after playing it.
in the past i have listened to that song hundreds of times, tweaking my EQ to try and bring out the drums and really hear what master bonzo is doing. today i just went for it. pulsing the bass in a dynamic way while riding on my floor tom and accenting with my left on the mid tom and just hacking at it with all my heart and gradually i found the pattern. i'm over the moon about this i tells ye! i still haven't added in the rim clicks and the hihat pedalling but those are the ornaments...the bread and butter of the beat is down for the first time. and man is the top of my right leg burning from the effort! but i got it and the funny thing is i still have no idea how to count it or even chart it...i will just have to heart it.

does anyone play this song? does anyone know how to count it?

j

I haven't figured out how to play this one yet, but... with my ear phones in, listening to the clicks, they started sounding like it was the actual sticks banging against each other while he played. Sometimes they are prominent, others not, didn't sound so mystical once I had my earbuds in and my mp3 player full of all the studio albums. I've heard subtleties and nuances like never before with those things in. I'll listen to it again, but to me (and I'm no expert) that's what it sounds like. Two big sticks flopping around in his hands while he's pounding away, like it would sound if he was playing with a pair of spoons in each hand. But, I may be wrong, the clicks could have been laid down prior to that.

[pcmckay]

hello you bonzos im a guy from Tenerife (Canary Islands). Useless to say anything about John. can anybody tell me which was the set of cymbals used by bonham in The Song Remains concert and Physical Graffity

He used Paiste 2002 series later on but started with Giant Beats by paiste. For his hi-hats he used 15" Paiste 2002 sound edge, !8" med crash, 20" medium crash, and a 24" Ride cymbal. On occasion he used a third crash over his floor toms which was also a 18" medium crash. And sometimes he had another crash I'm pretty sure a 16" med on the left side of his hi-hat. But his standard set up was the 18", 24", 20" that is what you see in the Song Remains the Same movie.

[Nadz1lla]

Hi all, my little sis is 15 and has acheived grade 6 drums and LOVES Zeppelin. Recently in her GCSE Music lesson she got a lower grade than usual on a piece because the other kids that were playing in her group wanted to do a RHCP number that was very un-challenging for her to play and the teacher wanted to see her do something more technical and challenging. He said a Zep song would be awesome and he'd dish out some good marks if she did some of that. Trouble is, there is a distinct lack of good Bonham books around, and the few that I have found have contradicting reviews.

Can anyone reccomend a good Led Zeppelin drum score book? I heard about one by Bill Wheeler that got slated. A lot of people said he got a lot of things wrong and had to correct pretty much every song in it. I also found one of the same title but by a different author, Joe Bergamini, but I think some people reviewing these books got confused over the authors, as both books seem to have the same title.

Can anyone let me know which one is best (author) or if there is anything even better?

Any help / pointers in the right direction would be majorly appreciated, as this is the only thing stopping my sister getting an A* in her music GCSE test at the moment.

Cheers!!!

[drummer wannabe]

Found a better pic of his 1968 rig, and it's indeed a Slingerland.
http://photobucket.com/albums/y117/ledzeppelinorg1/multimedia/photoarchive/tours/1968/images/1968-09-13_new_yardbirds.jpg

http://photobucket.com/albums/y117/ledzeppelinorg1/multimedia/photoarchive/tours/1969/images/1969-01_Whiskey_01.jpg

So I guess when they say he used a "black diamond pearl Ludwig" at the beginning of Led Zeppelin it was actually a "black diamond pearl Slingerland" Then came his maple Ludwig thereafter.

BTW, did find a pic also of him using both bass drums on his maple rig as well:
http://photobucket.com/albums/y117/ledzeppelinorg1/multimedia/photoarchive/tours/1969/images/1969-06_01.jpg

[nickg]

Bonham was very influenced by Soul and R&B drummers. A major influence was Bernard Purdie. I believe that the "Purdie Shuffle" which he played on tracks like "Babylon Sisters" and "Home At Last" by Steely Dan influned Bonham's beat on "Fool In The Rain."

not to mention that Jeff Porcaro stated that his "Rosanna" beat was a combo of the "Purdie Shuffle" and Bonham's "Fool in the Rain".

and with the Ludwig double bass kit...Bonham's endorsement deal with Ludwig came from a recommendation from Carmine Appice as Zep toured with Vanilla Fudge on one of their first US tours, if not THE first tour.

[murphinelli]

While I've been searching to determine what type of shoes Bonzo wore (see the famous shoe thread...lol) I found this vintage interview from 1970. This is awesome. The newscasters talk about "The Led Zeppelin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0fqgq6ZMZY&mode=related&search=

[CooManChu]

not to mention that Jeff Porcaro stated that his "Rosanna" beat was a combo of the "Purdie Shuffle" and Bonham's "Fool in the Rain".

and with the Ludwig double bass kit...Bonham's endorsement deal with Ludwig came from a recommendation from Carmine Appice as Zep toured with Vanilla Fudge on one of their first US tours, if not THE first tour.

Wow - didn't know that about the Porcaro - thanks - I'm going to pull those out right now and listen. Been off the site for a while and just now catching up on the posts.

That Purdie Shuffle is so slick. I'm trying to break into that right now myself, just building from the ground up by filling the gaps various ways using the snare and bass and studying Home at Last and other tunes. I think it's going OK, but not it's not trivial at all. Even on the videos he has has on this site, it's not easy to break down because he's so fluid with it, changing it up and such (maybe I should post this under Purdie's thread?)

[CooManChu]

at the moment i'm loving and learning this bit from 'i can't quit you babe' (first album version - halfway through the song)

HH |X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..X..
SN |.........X.................X........etc
BD |X.....X......xx.xxX.....X......xx.xx
................\3/\3/............\3/\3/


john's bass drum is so fragile in its placement throughout the song so almost naive but perfect and then he starts the tour de force bass triplets. it is a great song to learn.

j
Yeah - I just love his treatment of these slow 12/8 blues. I've been digging into these for a while myself and things are finally becomming more natural and fluid. The Coda version of "I Can't Quit.." is so cool as is the Zeppelin I version above - vintage Bonhan 12/8 blues.

[pcmckay]

While I've been searching to determine what type of shoes Bonzo wore (see the famous shoe thread...lol) I found this vintage interview from 1970. This is awesome. The newscasters talk about "The Led Zeppelin"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0fqgq6ZMZY&mode=related&search=

I don't think Bonham was as concerned about what kind of shoes to play in like we are today. I have seen a lot of pictures and clips and he has a different kind of shoe on each time. I wondered the same thing for awhile but I see that sometimes he wore boots, hushpuppies, those Italian boots that were real popular in the 60's and then later on it looks like he wore sneakers. I think he could pull off those triplets regardless of what he was wearing!

[baldmann]

Check this guy out on You Tube. Beau Ferchaud Playing Led Zeppelin. He`s good. Very good.

[murphinelli]

I don't think Bonham was as concerned about what kind of shoes to play in like we are today. I have seen a lot of pictures and clips and he has a different kind of shoe on each time. I wondered the same thing for awhile but I see that sometimes he wore boots, hushpuppies, those Italian boots that were real popular in the 60's and then later on it looks like he wore sneakers. I think he could pull off those triplets regardless of what he was wearing!

I agree. I was just joking around in relationship to some other thread about shoes...I'm sure Bonham could have worn combat boots and still cranked out Good Times Bad Times with no problem.

[NUTHA JASON]

see the french TV show part of the DVD. he is wearing cowboy boots!
j

see this just for some cool bonzo twirling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M49SXymmAW8

[pdp 9091]

see the french TV show part of the DVD. he is wearing cowboy boots!
j

see this just for some cool bonzo twirling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M49SXymmAW8

wowww. i especially love the part from 1:02 - 1:13. Then the part at 2:17 is crazy also. Those twirls and fills are amazing. great clip nutha

[pcmckay]

I agree. I was just joking around in relationship to some other thread about shoes...I'm sure Bonham could have worn combat boots and still cranked out Good Times Bad Times with no problem.

I agree. I think today drummers put to much emphasis on equipment, shoes, lighting etc. So often I hear a lot of drummers whinning " I can't play a kit if it doesn't have double bass pedal" or "I can't play a kit unless I have these certain kind of cymbals" or " I can't play unless I have three remote hi-hats." I say SHUT UP AND PLAY!!!!

[NUTHA JASON]

i agree. a great drummer can make music with a plastic bucket.

j

[murphinelli]

I agree. I think today drummers put to much emphasis on equipment, shoes, lighting etc.

Unfortunately, many drummers get too caught up in this side of the equation and spend more time looking/drooling at the equipment rather than practicing/playing...

nutha, i saw about 1/2 second of bonham's shoes in that video (in the beginning). hard to tell that they were cowboy boots....they did look black...that is an awesome video....where do people get these things? it looks like he only had 1 floor tom. was that just for that gig or did he always use 1 floor tom back in 69'?

thanks, now you have me on a youtube binge!!!! there's some good footage of moby dick on there (3 parts)...you've probably already seen it. take a look at the "Tags" from the person that posted the vids! lol..any idea where/when this is from?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rOCa-qgbtc&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_fwcFjzyik&mode=related&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fd4NDf7ciK4&mode=related&search=

[bonzolead]

i agree. a great drummer can make music with a plastic bucket.

jI agree 100% a good drummer can make any drum sound good.it's not what you got or how many things you got or what school or lessons you took it's how you TUNE & PLAY period.

Keep swatting,
Bonzolead

[MarkR]

Truly unique and a giant in rock. Ever notice how syncopated he got? If one reads up on the extra-musical activities of the band (books like Hammer of the Gods and Stairway to Heaven, et.al.) one may form a sort of mental image of the personalities. Like Keith Moon it makes one wonder how all that great music was made considereing the excesses. But then, that was/is another world...wasn't it?

[Amalgam]

well, yeah, Bonzo was just great, BUT...we have to admit that we wouldn't been discussing and admiring him if he wasn't dead...like with Elvis who is earning more money than he ever did http://www.pearldrummersforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

yeah.... right... think about how much he progressed thru the years. If he had lived longer he would have been even a bigger leyend.

[Merkaba]

I like led zepplin a lot but I really dont like john bonham all that much. He is still a really good drummer though.

[pdp 9091]

I like led zepplin a lot but I really dont like john bonham all that much. He is still a really good drummer though.

Why dont you like him that much?

[Goody602]

Lately I've been listening to the last two and a half minutes of 'Dazed and Confused' off How The West Was Won right before going out at night to hear the part Bonham and Jones play during Page's guitar masturbation. Nothing gets me more pumped up. I love how simple it is, he's really just running on his pedals and playing a snare/tom pattern over it, but the feel, the places he puts the accents combined with Jones' bassline carve that nasty groove that makes it impossible to keep your head still.

[murphinelli]

FINALLY!

Well, after having the Led Zeppelin DVD on my Xmas wish list for the last several years...my wife finally bought it for me!! I know I should have bought it for myself....

It's been well worth the wait. Incredible video and sound for such old footage.

I've only watched the first DVD so far. Awesome...Moby Dick....Awesome...

I know, most of you have already seen these...

What I've been missing...If you don't have these, you need to get them.

-Murph

[NUTHA JASON]

i found this transcript of the intro to 'rock'nroll' in MD by joe franco. looks right to me.

[drummer wannabe]

see the french TV show part of the DVD. he is wearing cowboy boots!
j

see this just for some cool bonzo twirling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M49SXymmAW8


In this pic I found he's wearing sneakers... look like Adidias's..
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/gallery/galleries/Led_Zeppelin_Era/1977-07-23-24_Oakland/JB_JP_Oakland_Coliseum_by_Dennis_Callaghan_24_jul_ 1977-01.jpg Oakland, 7/23/77

[junglelord]

Sorry if this is old news, but thought I would put it here.
In Through The Out Door outtakes.
Cheers
http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm

[NUTHA JASON]

thanks i think some of these are different from the ones that have been swinging around the net so its a great find.
j

[Womble]

Wow. I've noticed this before but jeeez - 5:07 into Stairway To Heaven. Brake, screeeeeech, skid! That's some serious lagging. I guess the K did effect his timing after all.

I should point out I'm not saying for one second that it matters. Led Zep were one of those lucky bands who managed to groove despite their time moving all over the place. It's just interesting to hear.

[NUTHA JASON]

sorry womble but i've listened to that bit ten times in a row now while tapping a table and i cannot hear what you are talking about at all. the timing there is beautiful. i guess the K is affecting your timing
;-)

what is k?

j

[pdp 9091]

Wow. I've noticed this before but jeeez - 5:07 into Stairway To Heaven. Brake, screeeeeech, skid! That's some serious lagging. I guess the K did effect his timing after all.

I should point out I'm not saying for one second that it matters. Led Zep were one of those lucky bands who managed to groove despite their time moving all over the place. It's just interesting to hear.

Theres no tempo change at all. Put a metranome to it. You see. its just his voice getting a little deeper i guess that makes it seems like its lagging

[X22]

You better get a new table because yours is completely off.

sorry womble but i've listened to that bit ten times in a row now while tapping a table and i cannot hear what you are talking about at all.

[NUTHA JASON]

is that a joke ?

j

[Womble]

sorry womble but i've listened to that bit ten times in a row now while tapping a table and i cannot hear what you are talking about at all. the timing there is beautiful. i guess the K is affecting your timing
;-)

what is k?

j

Don't tap a table, that's not a good method: trust your ears. Pdp's correct that if you put a click on it it does pretty much stay at 86 BPM. Well, for a few bars anyway. But the dragging happens within that framework; it's about the feel of his groove and the band playing together, not the metronome. Listen to just before "The piper...".

k, j, was Bonzo's drug of choice. no jk. And I thought you had a shady past ;)

[NUTHA JASON]

i tap the table because that way i'm playing the groove not a machine. so i'm still not spotting anything as harsh as 'Brake, screeeeeech, skid! ' just a beautiful feel of space and music.

BTW although in this thread the bonzo was a druggie thing has come up several times i have read many books and articles on him and have found nothing to support this from the most historic sources (friends and family, his drum tech and the authorised biographers). mention of heroine use etc is only made by fringe writings. i choose to believe that bonzo had only one huge chemical vice was C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon)2H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen)6O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen) in way too large amounts too often.

[gcarlet]

C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon)2H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen)6O (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen)

LOL! Nice way to put it.

[X22]

Here you go. (http://www.lehnertz.com/stairway86a.wav)

The pulse (86 bpm) is on the upbeats, but who cares. A pulse is a pulse. You'll hear it. If you don't hear it, put the sticks down now.

[wy yung]

I don't think it matters whether it speeds up or slows down. Music should have some breath in it. If I recall, Art Blakey said as much in his last MD interview.

Bonham was awesome and that track works. At least to my ears.

[Womble]

I don't think it matters whether it speeds up or slows down. Music should have some breath in it. If I recall, Art Blakey said as much in his last MD interview.

Bonham was awesome and that track works. At least to my ears.

I deliberately wrote this "I should point out I'm not saying for one second that it matters. Led Zep were one of those lucky bands who managed to groove despite their time moving all over the place. It's just interesting to hear" in my first point so that people wouldn't have to chime in for no reason! No one's saying it matters, but if someone can't actually hear it that's a point for discussion.

[wy yung]

I deliberately wrote this "I should point out I'm not saying for one second that it matters. Led Zep were one of those lucky bands who managed to groove despite their time moving all over the place. It's just interesting to hear" in my first point so that people wouldn't have to chime in for no reason! No one's saying it matters, but if someone can't actually hear it that's a point for discussion.

Oh I know. I'm not having a shot. Just adding my thoughts for whatever they're worth. Probably not much. :)

[X22]

You're right. It doesn't matter. However, to say there is no tempo change is completely wrong.

I don't think it matters whether it speeds up or slows down.

[NUTHA JASON]

well the error was called in the wrong place. there is no tempo change at 5:04 but there is a lag between 5:14 and 5:22. but not such a big one as to describe it as screech skid etc. so it is a pointless arguement.

j

[X22]

Nobody was arguing. People were observing. It's certanly not pointless. It is a fact that the song lags by a good 1/2 beat "in that area of the song". Take from it what you want. You may think that despite the tempo being all over the place in parts, it doesn't take away from the song in the slightest. You may think Bonham doesn't have great time or can't play to a click very well. You may think, "Who cares?" I happen to think "Womble's right, the tempo drags there. I still like the tune." Don't dismiss the tempo problem because you find it inconsequencial or didn't hear it.

Now go and listen to "All of My Love". The keyboard solo. JPJ hits two keys at the same time. *Somewhere* around 2:50 into the tune. It's a gaff but does it take away from the song?

I can also find instances where Simon Phillips clicks his sticks together by accident.

but not such a big one as to describe it as screech skid etc. so it is a pointless arguement.

j

[wy yung]

I can also find instances where Simon Phillips clicks his sticks together by accident.

Or Gadd hitting a microphone. I think it all adds character. So much music today is sterile. It's nice sometimes to hear the 'human' come through.

[NUTHA JASON]

and there were no clicks in those days which makes the music all the more interesting...damn disco! i read that ringo had such a good sense of tempo that not only did he keep time during recording but he could play take after take at the right tempo to such accuracy that later on they could splice the tapes together with no problems (basic the reason the click exsists today) but ringo was his own click!

x22 i think half a beat off is a bit harsh but we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. i think we both agree that the song is sweet all the same.

j

[Womble]

Or Gadd hitting a microphone. I think it all adds character. So much music today is sterile. It's nice sometimes to hear the 'human' come through.

Absolutely.

I must say I'm becoming suspicious about just how many drummers are said to have precisely nailed the tempo of songs night after night or take after take. I've heard this about Carlos Vega, and I believe it, although that story was that the tempos would be 'virtually identical'. A band mate, who wouldn't know good drumming if it got up and gave him a haircut, recently told me that The Clash's drummer was known as a human metronome. I find this much harder to credit. And now Ringo...hmmm who knows?

[NUTHA JASON]

John Bryant apparently. a top session drummer and experienced producer.

but that's a debate for the ringo thread.

j

[X22]

Human metronome... I'd like to see that. I simply don't think it's possible, *especially* in a live situation. To acheive this, it would have to be an unwaivering pulse for an extended period of time. I think it's possible over a short period of time, and close over a long period of time, but not something I'd call a metronome.

Absolutely.

I must say I'm becoming suspicious about just how many drummers are said to have precisely nailed the tempo of songs night after night or take after take. I've heard this about Carlos Vega, and I believe it, although that story was that the tempos would be 'virtually identical'. A band mate, who wouldn't know good drumming if it got up and gave him a haircut, recently told me that The Clash's drummer was known as a human metronome. I find this much harder to credit. And now Ringo...hmmm who knows?

[NUTHA JASON]

i vaguely remember reading about some dude who can turn his metronome on at a random tempo and then after a few seconds turn the volume off and sit there counting out fours for something ridiculous like an hour and then turn the volume up while still counting out the fours and be spot on. for some reason my memory is telling me he is chinese. do you know anything about this?

j

[X22]

You know, I'd believe it if the person in question was an idiot savant. It would make perfect sense there. Human metronome but couldn't apply it to anything other than being a metronome.

I've googled "human metronome" to death and I couldn't find a documented human metronome. Lots of claims that "so-and-so was one" but nothing legit.

[Womble]

Finn once posted about a Korean guy at Drumtech whose record was going 64 seconds without dropping a beat. Is it this you're thinking of? An hour sounds a bit far fetched to me.

[NUTHA JASON]

yes that sounds right. it probably was finn. haha an hour would be impressive. 64seconds not so much.

j

[Rat Boy]

Appologies to the administrators - (one post and I've upset them)
I've trawled this thread and maybe I missed the answer, so here goes again:

Please excuse my ignorance. I know that John Bonham used a Ludwig drumkit, but did he use any others? In particular, what did he use in the late 70's?

Strange request, I know, but I've recently bought an old car that is reputed to have been owned by him in the late '70's (might have even featured in "the song remains the same" ??). I want to use a drum pedal as the accelerator pedal as a kind of tribute to him owning it.

Any help much appreciated.

If this post is in the wrong place or it is offensive in any way then I promise to go away and never come back!!

[X22]

99% sure he used a Ludwig Speed King pedal.

[pdp 9091]

Now go and listen to "All of My Love". The keyboard solo. JPJ hits two keys at the same time. *Somewhere* around 2:50 into the tune. It's a gaff but does it take away from the song?

.

i actually never noticed that until you pointed it out. Good observation.

[Rat Boy]

99% sure he used a Ludwig Speed King pedal.

Thanks X22, love the look of that pedal - perfect for the old '54. Found a few on ebay USA, but none in the UK. Still, I know what I'm after now - thanks again.

[X22]

And while we're at it... Simon Phillips on Pete Townshend's tune "Face the Face" (White City). At about 1:09 in the tune Simon hits the rim instead of the snare. I'm not completely convinced it was accidental because it *almost* fits, but I'm pretty sure he missed the snare.

i actually never noticed that until you pointed it out. Good observation.

[CooManChu]

Hi - I hope this request is OK to post here - if not, sorry and please delete.

Does anyone happen to have:

Led Zeppelin - Lost Sessions Vol. 4
Empress Valley Supreme #EVSD-308/309 - 2 CD set

There are some drum takes (I believe pieces of the final takes used in the final mix) that include the "Fool in the Rain" snippet available here on this site.

I really enjoy listening to the Fool in the Rain (drums only) and comparing it to the final mix . Checking out the other tracks available as drums-only on the above compilation would be excellent!

Thanks in advance.

PS: Here is the track list for this set:

Disc 1: (November - December 1978, Polar Studios):
1. All My Love (rough mix / take)
2. Unreleased Song (Drum track)
3. Carouselambra (Drum Track)
4. Ozone Baby (Drum Track),
5. Ozone Baby (Drum Track)
6. All My Love (Drum Track)
7. Wearing and Tearing (Drum Track)
8. I'm Gonna Crawl (Drum Segment)
9. Fool In the Rain (Drum Track)

Disc 2: (May 1978, Clearwell Castle)
1. Fire
2. Carouselambra (takes 1-3)
/// (November - December 1978 Polar Studios)
3. Carouselambra (Instrumental Fragment)
5. Wearing and Tearing
6. Fool In the Rain
7. Hot Dog
8. In the Evening
9. Southbound Suarez
10. Darlene
11. Fool In the Rain
12. Carouselambra

[dclick]

Please view the YouTube clip of Zeppelin at bottom of page. I need a few qualified opinions.

At minute 4:30 where Bonham is at the end of his finale, there is a "clicking" sound of over 25 beats in 3 seconds. It sounds as though it may be the bass drum.

I've put the clip through some filtering software to slow it down and clean it up a bit, but I still can't tell. Part of the problem is that Bonham parts his hair while the clicking sound is still in play (as if nothing was happening). And that threw me off because he usually makes faces and emphasizes on the hi hat when he's doing one his lightning fast triplets. So I would really like a qualified opinon on this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MlUHjDhB4A&mode=related&search=


Please send me an email and let me know.

Greatly appreciated !!!

Develin
dixlexicsd@hotmail.com

[T.Underhill]

That in no way sounds like the bass drum. I can hear that noise at 4:20 along side the drums. It's some electronic interference but who knows what caused it. Mic, guitar, cord, amp, etc.

[ledzepjb]

im a big zeppelin fan and ive never heard Bonzo do that. I think it might be a mic. problem because at around 4:32 in to the song you dont see his legs moving nor do you see his body moving.

[fourstringdrums]

I agree that it's probably a mic or some other interference. It's definately not him.

[Safetyhelmetkid]

howdy y'all...you folks might find this interesting...

apparently, Jazz Bonham goes to my school. yeah, she's in middle school, but the middle school dean also handles the driving stuff, so i was speeding on campus today and got called in and so did jazz for chewing gum. i had NO clue who she was...when they asked for her name, she was like "Jazz Bonham" and i went "Bonham? like John and Jason Bonham?"
so she goes, "Yup" and all i could think of was "wow...um...i ah...i play drums..." and she was like "Oh, me too. it's kind of in my blood." or something...think i passed out there...ANYWAY...yeah, story time's over. I am so becoming good friends and going over to her house. WOO-HA!

[wod8o5]

Is it just me or did Jason have a SON named Jazz?

[Safetyhelmetkid]

Is it just me or did Jason have a SON named Jazz?

she was definitely a girl...besides, jazz is a little feminine, no?

[wod8o5]

Jason Bonham is the Son of legendary Led Zeppelin drummer, John Bonham. Jason first began playing drums at the age of 4. His first solo album, “The Disregard of Timekeeping,” appeared in 1989 and the single "Wait for You" was a major success. Bonham drummed for Paul Rodgers on the Grammy winning “Muddy Water Blues: A Tribute to Muddy Waters” project. A year later, with Slash and Paul Rodgers, he appeared at Woodstock II in 1994, followed by a stint with “Motherload” on their “Peace 4 Me” album. At the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Jason represented his father when Led Zeppelin was inducted during 1996. Bonham soon put together another solo project which culminated in the “In The Name of the Father: The ZepSet,” featuring the songs of Led Zeppelin. Proceeds from the album went to charity. The album followed up with “When You See the Sun.” Bonham drummed for Healing Sixes in 2000 and appeared in the film Rock Star, starring Mark Wahlberg. Following an album and tour with Debbie Bonham, younger sister of John Bonham, Jason was invited to drum for hard rock group, UFO. Bonham married Jan Charteris In May, 1990 and had a son named Jazz Bonham.

[gmrakich]

In my opion one of the greatest drummers of all time, Fool In The Rain, When The Levee Breaks, Poor Tom all great grooves. Moby Dick...out of this world and Good Times Bad Times with all the triplets and his lightning fast foot. And D'yer Maker the very first Zeppelin song i could play. One thing i loved about John Bonham is that all his drums seem to fit in the song. Any other comments on John Bonham


p.s. My first post :)

I would of loved to see JB's interpretation of RUSH songs. His drum sound was as much a signature of LZ as Plant's voice. I wonder what Distant Early Warnung would sound like with the JB touch. Both NP and JB are influenced by great jazz drumming, but they each went to opposite ends of the spectrum with their own developed style. Are there any Bonham clones out there that could put a Bonham type feel to a RUSH song. If so, I think it would be awesome.

What would Neil do with Matchbox by the Beatles??

[dawg]

i don't think they could trade spots because bonham ( to me anyway) played a little behind the beat where neil is more metronomic. that and the double bass aspect which i'm sure bonham could learn,if he didn't already know,would sound different.i think it boils down to a diffence of time feel.

[foghorn2]

Neil WAS a perfect time keeper, he learned how to play drums around the Test for Echo years when his instructor told him how most of drumming was done "in the air" in circles and the drum hit was at the end of a circular stroke. This was to trick him into changing his timing up a bit so he wouldn't sound so robotic.

Bonham fooled around with the time by being a bit later than expected giving you a latent sexy feel (kind of like sex), waiting in anticipation for the beat made the music exotic and alluring.

I don't think you could really have each other play the others stuff in the same stylee and patton, nor would you want to introduce someone like Stewart Copeland in that experiment either.

The results would be dissapointing in my opinion.

[fusssion]

Guys, help me out please....

I've searched on this forum and I'm looking to see if there is an actual transcript of Bonzo's intro to Rock & Roll??

Can anyone help? Thanks...

I need it to resolve an "issue" with our 'sit-in' bass player....thanks

[CooManChu]

Hi fussion - here's is my interpretation of it. There are a few different opinions on this (as you know), but I think this is super close to - maybe exactly - what he plays.

Playing it as it is written below at the proper volume, up to tempo, and with the proper expression and such, it comes as close to the original as anything I've heard. If you play it as below and record it, play it back and compare it to the recording on Zeppelin IV, I think you'll be very happy with the comparison.

http://www.schuman-cook.com/tmp/RockandRollIntro.JPG

In addition to the notes being pretty correct, I also would say as this is written, it is (imo) how the intro is counted by Bonham and the band. Very simply, it's a four bar intro (in 4/4 time), that comes in on the upbeat of 3 in the first measure - nothing more, nothing less.

What's the "issue" with the bass player (just curious)?

In case the JPG is a little messy to read/print off, here it is as a PDF:

[fusssion]

Sorry to sound like a putz, ....but.....what is ....."comes in on the upbeat of 3?"

[CooManChu]

Sorry to sound like a putz, ....but.....what is ....."comes in on the upbeat of 3?"

If you count 8th notes in time as "1-and 2-and 3-and 4-and", the downbeats are the numbers (when you say "1", "2", "3", "4"); the upbeats are when you say "and".

Alot of people count this way. Then they might count 16th notes in time as "1-e-and-uh 2-e-and-uh" etc.

It that example above, the intro phrase starts on the upbeat of 3 (or the "and" of 3). The first accented downbeat is on "1" of the second mesure of the phrase. Of course, when you're playing, you're not counting "1-e-and-uh, 2-and 3-and, 4-e-and-uh" necessarily, but while you're working something out, it might help to know where it falls with respect to time, placement in the phrase (which measure), etc. If for no other reason, it gives you some info to talk about if you need to relay info to the band (especially if the "you'll just hear it" method of communication isn't working).

More info than you wanted:

Like if I were playing this and the bass playing didn't hit with me right on "1" when I finished the intro - because this intro phrase is deceptive (it tricks your ear a little at first), I might hand him/her the phrase written out so he/she could check it out while I play it and get comfortable with it. If the bassists can accept a verbal rundown with no paper (which would be excellent), then I might just say something like "OK, I got a four bar intro. I'm going to count off and be coming in on the upbeat (or and) of 3 before bar 2 of the phrase. If your ear is tricking you on when to come in, just count 4 bars of time with me while I'm playing and come in."

I'd probably count the tune off until the bass player and the band were comfortable. It could be short, just 1-2-3 and then you're in on the upbeat.

This is off topic a little, but for me, I wish everyone could communicate a little better sometimes. It's hard to pick up things from people when they can't articulate what they mean - especially if your a drummer and they're talking about time or rhythm or something. As drummers, I think most of the time, we have pretty specific language about what things mean and when someone (like maybe a bass player) asks me to play a triplet before a break and what they actually mean is three quarter notes in a row, it's kinda a bummer - especially if you're playing a gig and haven't rehearsed.

Being able to talk a tune down in musical terms so everyone can understand what's going on before the tune starts isn't a trivial skill (imo), but one to hone - it just makes things alot easier.

[fusssion]

If you count 8th notes in time as "1-and 2-and 3-and 4-and", the downbeats are the numbers (when you say "1", "2", "3", "4"); the upbeats are when you say "and".

Alot of people count this way. Then they might count 16th notes in time as "1-e-and-uh 2-e-and-uh" etc.

It that example above, the intro phrase starts on the upbeat of 3 (or the "and" of 3).


Ok,...so the first snare hit is AND 3 and 4 .....or is it.....AND 4 and 1 ....

neither one counts right for me...I just can't count that?! I cant' hear it! I CAN PLAY IT....but I can't count it.....story of my freakin' life!

[CooManChu]

Ok,...so the first snare hit is AND 3 and 4 .....or is it.....AND 4 and 1 ....

neither one counts right for me...I just can't count that?! I cant' hear it! I CAN PLAY IT....but I can't count it.....story of my freakin' life!

I'd just count (in time): "1 2 3". Then you're in immediately.

Example: You could say, in time: 1 2 3, but think: 1-and 2-and- 3-play - the "play" is where you start playing - the "and of 3". Does that help?

[CooManChu]

Hi again fusssion - if that explanation above doesn't clear up the counting, maybe the below jpg of the first two bars will:

http://www.schuman-cook.com/tmp/RockandRollIntro-Counted.JPG

[ledzepjb]

i respect bonham but i didnt like moby dick solo i didtn like anything.


I respect your opinion, but watch what you say. That solo, live or studio, is one of the best ever played and recorded in the history of drumming.

[fusssion]

Hi again fusssion - if that explanation above doesn't clear up the counting, maybe the below jpg of the first two bars will:

http://www.schuman-cook.com/tmp/RockandRollIntro-Counted.JPG

I've tried counting this every which way and I can't end on the right time when the band comes in.......I'll look at the above and go again.

btw, I found out that my bass player was NOT listening to the original recording (he was listening to a freinds band do the tune) ....so that's why he was off !!! Jeeeezzz....go figure eh?? He's on the right track now....NO PUN! :)

[NUTHA JASON]

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

[CooManChu]

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

Very cool - That's pretty much what I come up with too. Only thing I hear differently is that I don't think Bonham articulates every 8th on the HH during that intro. I can hear the HH breathing a little here and there (basically by listening real close with headphones on). I think I can here where stick articulations on the HH are not present in the phrase.

I know that sounds totally weird that someone would even be that picky about it, but that's one of the small spices I think he uses to get the particular character in the line that he does. At least when I play the entire phrase with locked hands (both hands articulating all the 8ths), it doesn't sound quite right. When I add space as I think I'm hearing in the recording, it sounds extremely close to the original.

It's not really any harder to play it locked hands or leave a little space here or there, so probably whatever way someone prefers is the best anyway.

BTW, I'm totally not trying to start any arguments or anything - just explaining why I'm coming up with a little different interpretation that Nutha.

[NUTHA JASON]

no i'm with you on this one. bonzo was a fan of sloppy when needed...he was a fan of the moon.

besides, when you are playing 15'' sound edge hihats, partly open, then the white sound is enormous and so the 'tap' strokes would sustain into each other. its certainly easier to lock the hands on this one.

j

[fusssion]

how's this?

rock 'n roll intro...

OK!! For me, this one is easier to read, ...no offense Chu....however,...I don't hear 4 ghost notes before the accents,...I'm only hearing 3....but....that's it no doubt...

Thanks Jason

[CooManChu]

OK!! For me, this one is easier to read, ...no offense Chu....however,...I don't hear 4 ghost notes before the accents,...I'm only hearing 3....but....that's it no doubt...

Thanks Jason

Cool - glad you got one way or another.

[Thunderfoot]

Bonham was a genius, his tuning technique his creative choice of what to play and what not to play and above all his natural 'swing'. No one comes close in all 3 areas of drum mastery. Ian Paice, Ginger Baker and Stuart Copeland are amazing, but Bonzo is out of this world. The outtake tracks of Bonham's playing in the 1978 sessions are absolutely authentic. Are there any other 'bootlegs' where the authenticity is dubious...?
Let me know....a drummer from Sussex, UK

[Tubs player]

John is a legend in my book, and the triplets that he does are fun to do too

[Rockfang]

Feel free to delete this post. I had a question, but found the answer. Sorry.

[drummer wannabe]

If Bonzo was still alive he'd be 59 years old today. RIP.

[stasz]

Man I just drummed along to Achilles' Last Stand on my iPod... that song is intense. I forgot to pace myself and I was getting worn out around the third 5/4 section. Some pretty sick fills on that track.

[caprisun3484]

Bonham was a genius, his tuning technique his creative choice of what to play and what not to play and above all his natural 'swing'. No one comes close in all 3 areas of drum mastery. Ian Paice, Ginger Baker and Stuart Copeland are amazing, but Bonzo is out of this world. The outtake tracks of Bonham's playing in the 1978 sessions are absolutely authentic. Are there any other 'bootlegs' where the authenticity is dubious...?
Let me know....a drummer from Sussex, UK


what Bootleg you speaking about

[mikei]

I was recently watching Mike Portnoy's In Constant Motion DVD (which is really good) and he has a segment where he plays in numerous tribute bands.

His tribute band plays Moby Dick. Immediately after Mike's performance, I watch the Zep version on DVD.

While Mike does a good job of imitating Bonzo to a point, Bonzo was just in a completely different class. I was really shocked by this.

It was clear that Mike doesn't nearly have the groove, speed or chops that Bonzo had. His triplets were played much, much slower.

I am not writing this to bash Mike, as I am a huge fan of his and own all of DT DVDs and CDs. But, it is surprising to see just HOW good Bonzo was, even judging by today's standards.

[Goody602]

I think anytime someone plays a tribute to one of the greats, as good as it may be, it will always bring you back to the original. You can't play Bonham better than Bonham, just like you can't play Buddy better than Buddy, Hendrix, Jaco, Coltrane, etc. etc. Imitators couldn't exist without the originals.

Now I haven't seen the Portnoy DVD, and I have no trouble believing the comment about groove as I find Portnoy's playing to be rather stiff and lacking in feel, but the triplet speed? Really? Even with the double bass drums? I've seen Portnoy go pretty fast on those things. Or was he attempting to play it the real way with just one? That I could believe, because he seems to do plenty of things with two feet that could easily be done with one.

[mikei]

I think anytime someone plays a tribute to one of the greats, as good as it may be, it will always bring you back to the original. You can't play Bonham better than Bonham, just like you can't play Buddy better than Buddy, Hendrix, Jaco, Coltrane, etc. etc. Imitators couldn't exist without the originals.

Now I haven't seen the Portnoy DVD, and I have no trouble believing the comment about groove as I find Portnoy's playing to be rather stiff and lacking in feel, but the triplet speed? Really? Even with the double bass drums? I've seen Portnoy go pretty fast on those things. Or was he attempting to play it the real way with just one? That I could believe, because he seems to do plenty of things with two feet that could easily be done with one.
I am referring to the rack tom, floor tom, bass drum triplet.

He played with a single kick.

Again it was really, really good. Bonham was just faster, cleaner, better with more groove.

I love Mike. One of my top 5 drummers.

I just didn't really realize just how good Bonham was I guess.

[NUTHA JASON]

here's a great vid lesson of jack bennett teaching fool in the rain.

http://www.icanplaydrums.com/bigdrum_jan1_2006.htm

check out some of his other lessons too (http://www.icanplaydrums.com/bigdrum_august1_2006.htm)

j

[JJJ]

Hope you all had a chance to pick up the new Traps magazine with Bonham on the cover. I'm always impressed with his ergonomics of the set and tell my students to study how little motion he put into playing. Everything from pretty much wrist movements and slight arm motion. All drums set up above waist level, good positioning of snare and toms, there's still so much to learn from him. What a great sound with minimal effort. He even sat rather low for the day. Check out the mag or go to the website.

www.trapsmagazine.com

[CooManChu]

Hi - this isn't really directly Bonham related, but this forum is a friendly spot and I thought someone here might have some info I'm looking for.

I've always liked the Zeppelin II inner gatefold and thought it would make an excellent poster to put up in a person's practice space. Does anyone happen to know if one is available anywhere or ever was?

I've thought about scanning the album and piecing it together, enlarging it, and taking it to Kinko's to be color-laser-printed, but I don't think it will look as cool and crisp as a professionally done job.

Thanks.

PS: Attached is a small digital image I found of the gatefold.

[bonzolead]

Hope you all had a chance to pick up the new Traps magazine with Bonham on the cover. I'm always impressed with his ergonomics of the set and tell my students to study how little motion he put into playing. Everything from pretty much wrist movements and slight arm motion. All drums set up above waist level, good positioning of snare and toms, there's still so much to learn from him. What a great sound with minimal effort. He even sat rather low for the day. Check out the mag or go to the website.

www.trapsmagazine.com
Don't. tell your students to look at the danish TV Led Zeppelin performances that's when Bonham first starting out and he looks like he's trying to go through the drum heads and the Fisher-Price(single-brased)cymbal stands are just rocking back & forth.but if you look at The Song Remains The Same you can tell he getting the volume & power without totally slamming the kit which reminds me I can't. wait until they re-release The Song Remains The Same in Nov.07 it's gonna have all the songs from Madison Square Garden
plus outakes and all the other goodies you would expect from a Zeppelin re-release.everybody get your Christmas list ready.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

[maniac-drummer]

Don't. tell your students to look at the danish TV Led Zeppelin performances that's when Bonham first starting out and he looks like he's trying to go through the drum heads and the Fisher-Price(single-brased)cymbal stands are just rocking back & forth.but if you look at The Song Remains The Same you can tell he getting the volume & power without totally slamming the kit which reminds me I can't. wait until they re-release The Song Remains The Same in Nov.07 it's gonna have all the songs from Madison Square Garden
plus outakes and all the other goodies you would expect from a Zeppelin re-release.everybody get your Christmas list ready.

Keep Swatting,
Bonzolead

i have to admit john was was a pretty good drummer. thats all i have to say!

pinky x

[Creothcean]

John Bonham is my drumming hero. He's so fast and so powerful, the power he gets on Moby Dick with his bare hands I can't even get by using sticks!

And Good Times Bad Times with the triplets and how he USES A SINGLE BASS PEDAL is insane, I don't think my right foot will ever be that fast. Plus the fact that he plays those triplets that fast, but also perfectly controlled, in time, and at the right volume, its incredible.


And munsieman, you do know that John Bonham hated playing D'yer Maker, right? It was his least favorite song to drum to.


only the good die young........

[morristyson]

Bonzo's signature "Levee" sound is still an influence. If you get a chance, listen to "Ball Peen Hammer" off of Joe Bonamassa's new album. It's played by Anton Fig I think. The crash is not quite the same, but the hat, snare, and kick are so similar, I thought they were samples from "Levee".

[drummer wannabe]

A little clarification here... I read somewhere on a website that in addition to the green sparkle kit he used in the 1972 Austrailia tour, there were two other green sparkle drumsets he used, i.e the one he used on LZ III was a different one, the one for LZ IV was another one, and Houses of the Holy and Physical Grafitti was a third one. Is that true? Or did he use just the ONE green sparkle kit, the one we all know and love? Here's the info I found:

Bonham used three different ludwig green sparkle set on Led Zeppelin III, IV, Houses of the Holy, and Physical Graffiti. You can see him playing one of them on the "Immigrant Song" on the Led Zeppelin DVD. Pat Bonham has one of the kits that is suppose to be at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame.

And the site where it came from.
http://www.kellyindustries.com/drums/john_bonham.html

[Ludface]

heyy guys i got a question for and zeppelin fanatic. probably one of my favorite songs is good times bad times just for the intense drumming, but ive never found or heard a live version, did they play this live and are there any live recordings?? if so let me know

Thanks

[CooManChu]

heyy guys i got a question for and zeppelin fanatic. probably one of my favorite songs is good times bad times just for the intense drumming, but ive never found or heard a live version, did they play this live and are there any live recordings?? if so let me know

Thanks

According to Dr. MustardPie, there are a couple recordings of GTBT in circulation.

Sources for Rare Performances of LZ Songs:
Good Times Bad Times
AUD 1970.09.04 Inglewood, LA Forum - In Communication Breakdown medley. Best source.
AUD 1971.09.23 Tokyo, Budokan Hall - In Whole Lotta Love medley.

I have the LA forum recording someplace on a CD and will post it later as an attachment (if I can find it and if it is permitted in this forum).

From what I remember listening back to it months ago, the sound quality is not bad to crappy and the tempo is clipping along pretty well - faster than the studio version. Bonham is playing a pretty basic, sturdy, arena version of the studio groove (none of the triplet and 16th note bass drum embellishments).

Listening to old shows, I've noticed alot of the studio stuff is streamlined and simplified when it's played in a large arena (or at quicker tempos than the studio version). So, that kind of embellishment on Zep I's GTBT, played live even at a slower tempo, might have even been ditched by Bonham if he were playing a 3+ hour show at maximum volume and intensity in a large area.

Here's alot of VERY nice info about Zep concerts, recordings, rare performances and such:

http://www.royal-orleans.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=18827

I was getting into this stuff alot a while back, but it's very addicting. I had to stop completely because it was leaving no time to actually play drums. However, I collected a decent amount of good material beforehand and still enjoy peeking at it from time to time.

Some of the video stuff is really cool. Foreign performances, interviews - even a clip of Page playing in a skiffle band at 15 years old on a British talent program. He said he wanted to be a chemist or engineer or something like that when asked about his future.

Another interesting video clip has the pre-Zeppelin Yardbirds (with Page) playing Dazed and Confused - no Plant, no Bonham, no Jones. The singer doesn't quite make the grade at all when compared to Plant's treatment of the tune, but the drummer plays alot of the things we hear as Bonham-esque on this tune. I mean, when you hear that tune today played by Zep and the fills on it and such, you pretty much say, "Yep, that's Bonham. That's Bonham's tune." But when you consider the fact that a guy was already playing that tune before Bonham with very similar kicks and fills and such, I think you have to conclude that Bonham was either instructed or took it upon himself to play the tune close to the "original" drummer's take on it. Of course, he didn't play it exactly as the Yardbirds' drummer did, but still he played it with an informed knowledge of the other guy's playing at least. I find this fact kinda interesting and cool too...

[drum.lad]

if it werent for bonham none of us would be playing like we do today he changed everything and i love him for it

[chopsy]

can't let this man slip on to page 2. was just listening to II and it made me want to read through this thread a bit.

[Bonhamludwig1980]

John Bonham is my drum god, he is the reason i have stayed with the drums. i had a falling out period and then i started listening to Zeppelin and it all made sense again. Bonzo will be missed and has been for that last 27 years. The only thing i wanna know still is did he ever use a double bass kit in the studio. i know he used on live but it was never made clear whether or not he took it into the studio Cheers!

[Davey]

Remixed, remastered and expanded Song Remains the Same (http://rhinorecords.com/store/ProductDetail.lasso?Number=328252) OUT TODAY!

They gave it the Kevin Shirley treatment, and his mixing work on How The West Was Won makes this a must for me.

I know this album is maligned at times (and I know the performances are edited and cobbled together) but I still love it.

John Bonham, Moby Dick-Dick-Dick-Dick

[Davey]

Later...

I got the Song Remains the Same reissue. No more dodgy edits. They restored an entire MSG show. Sounds great. That 26" vistalite kick is rattling all of Manhattan.

[DWfan20005]

John Bonham is my drum god, he is the reason i have stayed with the drums. i had a falling out period and then i started listening to Zeppelin and it all made sense again. Bonzo will be missed and has been for that last 27 years. The only thing i wanna know still is did he ever use a double bass kit in the studio. i know he used on live but it was never made clear whether or not he took it into the studio Cheers!

He's had a double kit at one point in time but producers, mixers, engineers, band members etc. all pressured him out of using it. They thought it would intrude on the music. Besides why would Bonzo need a doouble bass kit, his drumming is loud enough.

R.I.P John Henry Bonham

[LiveGoat]

The page count for this thread trails off of my screen!!! LOL!!!! Guys, I think if we can get enough pages in this thread, we can petition the man upstairs to return Bonzo to earth!

Anyway, my friend played me some tracks from the Mothership collection and I'll be danged if I ain't gonna shell out the bucks and buy more Zep cds! I'm gonna wait till '08 when the complete works comes out (that's the rumor anyway). The drums are so clear on the new masters that it's like a new recording. It's never gonna stop.

---LG

[Jambo]

Looking for "Four Sticks" video and/or transcript. I've seen LZ twice in the '70's in Tampa. They never played this tune, but what an awesome Freakin' show(s) man. Most of us know that he played this tune with "4 Sticks" so, at age 50 I'd like to see him do this tune before I go home to my final drum kit in the ground.

Drop me a line or reply back here.

Jambo!

[Mook]

They never played it (Four Sticks) live once I'm afraid, might have played the Riff in the midst of a Jam but never the full tune.

Closest you'll get is Michael Lee doing a great job on it with Page & Plant - think it's on the 'Unledded' DVD...

[enforcerdrummer]

I'm seriously considering buying a 14 inch mounted tom (with a snare stand), have a 16 inch and 18 inch floor tom and getting a nice chrome ludwig snare. Then go on ebay and buy some nice Paiste cymbals. I really think 'Bonzo" would of submersed himself into other realms of music if he had lived. He probably would of talked to the greats like Max Roach and Elvin Jones, learned from them, maybe even play jazz at some events. Right before Tony Williams died, he discussed putting together a Heavy Metal band. Imagine what John would of accomplished. I admire Will Calhoun, Neil Peart, Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, Jack Dejohnette, and many others but one can not forget John Bonham!

[Davey]

Yesterday in London..
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/images/photo/2007/12/11/1211-ZEPPELIN/21101333.JPG

[Anduin]

Can't find a thread for Jason Bonham, but here's a nice little gig he played recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsHcUwtw5H0&NR=1

[jonescrusher]

As hard as he may try Jason just doesn't have the pocket that John had.....

[mikei]

As hard as he may try Jason just doesn't have the pocket that John had.....


I agree. He is a good drummer, but he doesn't have that pocket. Especially in the version of Kashmir I saw on youtube.

Mike

[bonzolead]

As hard as he may try Jason just doesn't have the pocket that John had.....
is your name jonescrusher or moodcrusher lol but you have too admit it's the closest thing to the original Zeppelin you're gonna get.at least he gave it a go i'm sure his Dad would've been proud.

Bonzolead

[Anduin]

And to be fair, Bonzo played what he felt like playing, but Jr. is copping his dad's ideas. I think it's pretty common to groove better when you've made up your own part as compared to when you're covering somebody else.

[mikei]

And to be fair, Bonzo played what he felt like playing, but Jr. is copping his dad's ideas. I think it's pretty common to groove better when you've made up your own part as compared to when you're covering somebody else.

You are right.

I didn't mean that the version of Kashmir sucked. It was quite good.

And, I didn't mean that it didn't sound good.

And, I admit that HE is the only person for that job.

However, I just don't think he has the feel of his father. But, how many drummers did have the feel of his father? Not many at all. That is why he was irreplacable.

But I like Jason.

Mike

[ironman]

more...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QZxukPZ0pjA

[wooltonboy]

This may be old news, but there's a site where 23 "takes" of John Bonham drum tracks are available. Just drums, nothing else.
It really showcases the magnitude of this man's groove and pocket.
Here's the link:
http://www.saladrecords.com/bonhamfiles.htm

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Cheers
Phil

[Cypriss]

Thanks for this. Funny when you just hear the drum track i hear things that i never noticed before.

[fourstringdrums]

Yes it's an old link, but it's so buried in the forum that someone would probably make a thread asking for the link anyway. *lol*

Someone should sticky this.

These are great. I love on a few of the tracks how you can hear him yelling and grunting.

[Doom]

Excellent thanks. I lost the one I had a while back. Its number 22 that I had before.

[ZildjianMan1023]

ugh.. after watching jason bonham rock out with zepp on youtube


i cant help but say that i am quite down by bonhams death


the man had so much potential..

[Juan Victor]

He used Paiste 2002 series later on but started with Giant Beats by paiste. For his hi-hats he used 15" Paiste 2002 sound edge, !8" med crash, 20" medium crash, and a 24" Ride cymbal. On occasion he used a third crash over his floor toms which was also a 18" medium crash. And sometimes he had another crash I'm pretty sure a 16" med on the left side of his hi-hat. But his standard set up was the 18", 24", 20" that is what you see in the Song Remains the Same movie.

Hi chuck do u know anything about bonzo tuning, was it a standard tuning. Do you know ways to tune? I mean notes, like C D E etc?

[Hdvd]

Let's not forget that John didn't play the same thing twice, listen to BBC sessions, or live recording and studio recordings... he always surprises me again and again. What a drummer.

I wonder what was his practice habbits...no teacher, only tips.

[jonescrusher]

the man had so much potential..

Not quite sure what he had left to acheive.....

[yamaman]

Tuning question:

Not sure if this is what your looking for, but this explains Bonzo's tuning. Good luck

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech1.html

[slingerland755]

Just a quick comment. I believe the ride on Stairway to Heaven is one of the sweetest sounding rides on record.

[DrummerJoa]

Bonzo was/is one of the greatests!
Most of the drummers like his style and his creativeness...
He is one of my idols and I like to listen to Led Zeppelin but not only for Bonham but the band rocks...
And he had a nice setup!

Grtz

[teehaw]

I was reading in Modern Drummer that during "Rock and Roll" Bonham is actually playing a shuffle with 8th notes on the snare. Anyone have a transcription or a better description?

Thanks.

[NUTHA JASON]

rocknroll is definitely not a shuffle.

[Hdvd]

Well, from my point of view, a shuffle is using both hands at the same time using a defined time signature. John had his right hand on the hi-hat and his left hand on the snare doing the same thing (on the beginning of the song). But it's not a shuffle (no time signature).

They should have said "the same technique as a shuffle"

[LinearDrummer]

Well, from my point of view, a shuffle is using both hands at the same time using a defined time signature. John had his right hand on the hi-hat and his left hand on the snare doing the same thing (on the beginning of the song). But it's not a shuffle (no time signature).

They should have said "the same technique as a shuffle"

I always thought that was called playing unisons....

Silly me :D

[teehaw]

So during the verse he is NOT playing 8th notes on the hi hat with 2 & 4 on the snare... right? On the snare he is playing 8th notes and accenting the 2 & 4... correct?

[NUTHA JASON]

yes.

and hdvd, a shuffle is a pattern built on triplets acccenting the first and last note of each three. only.

j


I can't remember if I'm the good twin or the evil one.

[teehaw]

Thanks.

Every drummer I have ever seen play this song only plays 2 & 4 on the snare. So I was just trying to clarify.

[Diaz]

A true legend - the man that so many of us drummers respect and want to emulate. Thank god for being introduced to bonham; he intrigues and helps me build my own style. Gone way too early.

[NUTHA JASON]

http://www.drummagazine.com/images/...ham-traps07.pdf (http://www.drummagazine.com/images/...ham-traps07.pdf)

the best bonham article yet. great pics and transcriptions.

j

[Hdvd]

Thanks for the link !

[NUTHA JASON]

teehawRe: John Bonham
I was reading in Modern Drummer that during "Rock and Roll" Bonham is actually playing a shuffle with 8th notes on the snare. Anyone have a transcription or a better description?

Thanks.


just for kicks here is rock n roll the basic verse pattern.

http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rocknroll.jpg

[joeybeats]

In the Feb '08 Modern Drummer cover article with Bonzo's son Jason, the present drummer for Led Zepp, Jason says R&R is the most challenging song for him to play correctly.

"MD: Are there any songs you find particularly challenging to play?

Jason: I think they're all challenging in a certain way. That said, the most challenging Led Zeppelin song for me to play correctly is Rock And Roll.

MD: I think everyone realized how deceiving that song was when the Led Zeppelin DVD came out, and we got to see exactly what your dad was playing.

Jason: Oh, yeah, because you can see his hands. The snare is going all the way through the whole song.

MD: That shuffle is hard to play with a relaxed feel.

Jason: Youre telling me! [laughs] I almost want to play it open-handed because I can do it a lot better with my right than I can with my left. .... You have to lead with the snare. Jimmy [Page] also taught it to me. He said it was inspired by a little Richard tune, "Keep A Knockin." It's one of those things that I don't care how confident I'll be, if we do that song live, when it comes, it will be the one where I'm thinking, "Don't mess it up!" Someone once said to me, "Isn't the ending of "Rock And Roll" the most difficult bit?" I said, "No, no, no," because that bit changed every night for dad, so you can get away with just going around the kit doing the triplets or whatever. But most of the time, playing his stuff correctly is the most hardest thing to do- it's the the subtleties you miss."

Anyway, a good article for those of you who can't get enough Bonzo related info. Joey

[NUTHA JASON]

a new rare pic of john on a stacatto:

http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/bonhampic.jpg

[slingerland755]

That is awesome! Great pic. I skipped school the day after he died.

[slingerland755]

http://www.drummagazine.com/images/...ham-traps07.pdf (http://www.drummagazine.com/images/...ham-traps07.pdf)

the best bonham article yet. great pics and transcriptions.

j

That was a great article.

Thanks for the link Nutha.

[gr82bagn]

Great article on JHB, man I could read about him forever. Thanks NJ.

[tkf048]

Hey everyone -- first post so I hope I don't offend anyone. . .

I tend to think Bonzo was one of the best that ever lived and played the drums, and quite possibly (albeit arguably,) the greatest rock drummer ever. I have seen Carmine live at a clinic (and I own a couple of his videos, ) and he also IS awesome, but I wouldn't compare him to JHB too much; just seem to me they are in different arenas. . . I just listened to John's live cut of Moby Dick that's posted on the site again, and man, that one is KILLER.

I agree with the peacekeepers however; we all have our opinions, there is no such thing as perfect, so let's just keep on keepin' on with what we do best -- ROCK & ROLL!!!

[Crydevil]

A true drumgod in every way of rockdrumming.
My biggest influence by far !

Greets ! :)

[NUTHA JASON]

i used image capture to get a whole load of pics of bonham (12 of them) including these two which show bonham playing heel up and also how he holds his sticks. go here to see the rest
http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/id47.html


http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/bon8.jpg

http://jasonhorsler.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/bon13.jpg

[PQleyR]

Not quite sure what he had left to acheive.....

He could have joined this forum, for one thing!

[NUTHA JASON]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g1DDiLyQZk

watch it!

[slingerland755]

WOW....................Yeah!

[CooManChu]

Wow - great stuff Jason! Thanks for sharing it.

[drummer wannabe]

Has anyone listened to the album Coda? If you listen to "Bonzo's Montreux" you can hear his squeaky bass drum pedal clear as day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9FBBrff3A
You can really hear it at the .29-.36 mark

[funky_drummer01]

Happy Birthday John Bonham!!!! Greatest rock drummer ever!

[Ian Ballard]

Not quite sure what he had left to acheive.....

Oh, come on. Look at guys like Weckl and Steve Smith... amazing players at a young age and into musical maturity, but they went to a guru to improve to whatever extent they believed they needed.

Of course, Bonzo was... let's just say... very self-confident, but you never know what could have been in his future. He may have gone the jazz route like Baker and Watts. He may have done clinics and, as mentioned, gone to an old jazz guru to sharpen his skills. You never know, he may have switched to traditional grip at some point.

It's a flounder in the impossible to second-guess what could have been, but you can't say that somebody at the age of 40 is done achieving things. Buddy got better with age, so has Vinnie, Smith... blah, blah, blah.

At any rate, he changed the scope of drumming forever.

[rockinrider]

...Of course, Bonzo was... let's just say... very self-confident, but you never know what could have been in his future. ...

At any rate, he changed the scope of drumming forever.

Hey Ian,

I agree that it's a fool's game to predict what "could have happened". John Bonham was both very talented and creative. He probably would have continued to grow and improve.

However, he may not have been as self-confident as you think. According to Robert Plant quoted here: http://www.drummagazine.com/images/bonham/bonham-traps07.pdf, John was not feeling very confident in his abilities. Plant quotes John, on the day before his death, as saying: “I’ve had it with playing drums. Everybody plays better than me. I’ll tell you what, when we get to the rehearsal, you play the drums and I’ll sing."

Apparently, even the very best doubt their abilities.

He is truly missed!

[Ian Ballard]

Hey Ian,

I agree that it's a fool's game to predict what "could have happened". John Bonham was both very talented and creative. He probably would have continued to grow and improve.

However, he may not have been as self-confident as you think. According to Robert Plant quoted here: http://www.drummagazine.com/images/bonham/bonham-traps07.pdf, John was not feeling very confident in his abilities. Plant quotes John, on the day before his death, as saying: “I’ve had it with playing drums. Everybody plays better than me. I’ll tell you what, when we get to the rehearsal, you play the drums and I’ll sing."

Apparently, even the very best doubt their abilities.

He is truly missed!

Well, it's also quite likely he was drunk off his gourd. That is how he died, remember. I've been really drunk (I don't drink anymore) in the past, and made similar ridiculous statements.

But whatever. His life beyond 1980 was not meant to be. We need to understand the consequences of drug/alcohol abuse as the most important lesson we could ever learn from that man... even more important than his drumming, imo.

[PQleyR]

Without his drumming, that would not be such an effective lesson. There are thousands of people destroying themselves with even more gusto at this very moment, and few will heed their lessons.

[Ian Ballard]

Without his drumming, that would not be such an effective lesson. There are thousands of people destroying themselves with even more gusto at this very moment, and few will heed their lessons.

That isn't at all my point.

Life is more precious than drumming ability. I'd rather Bonzo have quit drumming AND alcohol, over what happened to him.

Somebody could be a alcoholic drummer with a family and decide (for whatever reason) to quit both. I'm sure the wife and kids would be just fine with dad being a construction worker who's still alive, than a dead drummer.

If Bonzo's life lessons mean anything, it should be that you pick life before partying... and even before drumming.

Do you see what I mean?

[blaisegreensix]

I love Bonzo.
His playing was incredible.
He is in my opinion one of the most powerful drummers ever.

[PQleyR]

That isn't at all my point.

Life is more precious than drumming ability. I'd rather Bonzo have quit drumming AND alcohol, over what happened to him.

Somebody could be a alcoholic drummer with a family and decide (for whatever reason) to quit both. I'm sure the wife and kids would be just fine with dad being a construction worker who's still alive, than a dead drummer.

If Bonzo's life lessons mean anything, it should be that you pick life before partying... and even before drumming.

Do you see what I mean?

Yes, of course...

...do you think he would have picked life over drumming?

[shores511]

How come nobody on here has the balls to just say he was the greatest drummer of the rock era? Hands down. Not one of, but the. You know it's true. No single human has ever done as much for rock drumming as he has. 30 years later and that is still an indisputable fact.

[PQleyR]

That is difficult to argue with. Zeppelin showed everyone how to do rock music, and they've been doing it ever since. Bonham was an essential part of that. I'm a big fan!

[foursticks]

How come nobody on here has the balls to just say he was the greatest drummer of the rock era? Hands down. Not one of, but the. You know it's true. No single human has ever done as much for rock drumming as he has. 30 years later and that is still an indisputable fact.

Cos other people have balls to think that maybe drummers like Mitch Mitchell, Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, etc. were just as good or even better??

[bonzolead]

To start off Bonham is my fav. my username say it all.The way I see it is that Bonham too

Rock drumming is like Hendrix was too Rock guitar yes there is probably better technical

drummers but nobody brought drums too the forefront like Bonham did IMO Keith Moon is

the only other drummer that comes close for that time.Bonham brung

Tympani's,Gongs,Big Bass Drums,only a 5 piece kit and played the kit

with his hands.I know there were other drummers that did that but again he brung it to the

forefront just like Hendrix played the Guitar with his teeth,behind his back,and was the

master of feedback yes there was probably other guitar players that did that but again

he brung it too the forefront.They (Bonham & Hendrix) were Original,the Real Deal and

that's why their legacy lives on.

Keep Swatin'
Bonzolead

[PQleyR]

Cos other people have balls to think that maybe drummers like Mitch Mitchell, Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, Carl Palmer, Neil Peart, etc. were just as good or even better??

The fact that Bonham gets voted number 1 rock drummer in polls, or number 2 drummer after Buddy Rich, suggests he made quite an impression on people. The real question is, what aspects of his drumming were it that impressed people and continue to do so even now?

[foursticks]

The fact that Bonham gets voted number 1 rock drummer in polls, or number 2 drummer after Buddy Rich, suggests he made quite an impression on people. The real question is, what aspects of his drumming were it that impressed people and continue to do so even now?

HIs groove, feel and his general approach to drumming and the passion/energy he put into his playing is what makes him stands out the most. When one plays from the soul - that's when people's attention is aroused. Bonham did that.
My point was, all this silly business of 'greatest drummer of all time' is just going to get people nowhere (as it has been said THOUSANDS of times) - he was a damn great drummer - I think that says enough, as well as the fact Zeppelin are amongst the highest credited rock musicians of all time.

[drummer wannabe]

Just wanted to wish Bonzo a belated birthday... he would have been 60 two Saturdays ago. I watched The Song Remains the Same and some of the concerts on the DVD in his honor.

[The Timekeeper]

I have read different things about what stick size Bonzo used, anyone have the real info?

[HardJazz]

Hi fellow Bonham lovers. Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents. What I loved about Bonham's drumming was his power combined with his groove. His natural feel for time. His ability to be understated - to do nothing where other mere mortals would have to do a fill - eg Kashmir, For Your Life, Levee. The bass drum work in "Good Times Bad Times" always gets special mention, but listen to the drumming towards the end of the song for an illustration of his ability to manipulate time. The fills in D'yer Maker is another example. I watched the great Steve Smith perform Bonham licks but it was just the great Steve Smith performing Bonham licks. Capturing the soul and essence of Bonham's style is what's difficult and elusive....

He is missed!

[rabbitfoot]

I have read different things about what stick size Bonzo used, anyone have the real info?

this is a good question. everyone says he played with the biggest sticks available, 'trees' but I think I have read an interview with Jason Bonham where he said he actually used 5A or 5Bs sometimes. I think he also used Promuco sticks. He probably changed quite often.

[bonzolead]

Has anyone listened to the album Coda? If you listen to "Bonzo's Montreux" you can hear his squeaky bass drum pedal clear as day!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK9FBBrff3A
You can really hear it at the .29-.36 markand also I believe at the start of the second break he hits the rim of the snare instead of the head.Justs goes to show he was human LOL "Poor Tom" is one of my favorites off that album as usual for Bonham such a great snare & bass drum groove with the hi-hat to keep it all there.

Keep swattin'
Bonzolead

[dah145]

Being a huge led zeppelin fan, and of course of Bonzo, I just want to mention that his drum work was HUGE over the years he played, I admire him for his creativity (specially for fills), for his unmatched power, and his capacity to play at weird time signatures and the way he could play drums in a gentle way (ghost notes everywhere) while sounding the Bonham way.
But I think if you wanna explore Bonham and Led Zep completely you have to go the bootleg way, I mean there are live performances where you can hear his AMAZING fills and technique, this guy was a monster, he improvised his playing "on the fly", his bass drum is incredibly fast in some shows (faster than anything recorded on the albums), you can also hear his influences his different types of playing. He was indisputably a corner stone for Hard Rock drum playing.

[DrummerDavid]

Bonham is my favorite drummer.

[Pony]

I rember my 1st concert @ The Forum in L.A. 1977........
Led Zep and BONZO in the house ! Man, What an experience.

[Ian Williams]

John Bonham....Moby Dick, Immigrant Song, The Ocean, Ramble On....John Bonham

[LeeLovesSabian]

John Henry Bonham was great.
So crazy during Moby Dick to play with his hands (it made the snare sound like a bongo, but who cares).
One of the greatest EVER!

[doorstilend]

a thunder of drums best drummer ever IMO

[Bonz0]

He is my favorite and most influencial drummer, he knew what all of this is about, the feel, the power, the techniche, everything! For me he's the best drummer ever he actually was the reason i started playing and has been with me ever since. RIP Bonzo you truly rock!

[bonzolead]

John Henry Bonham was great.
So crazy during Moby Dick to play with his hands (it made the snare sound like a bongo, but who cares).
One of the greatest EVER!
When Bonzo played the snare drum with his hands during Moby Dick he turned his snares off that's why it sounded like a bongo or even a timbale the clearity is better.They'll never be another one like him. besides my dad he is my greatest influence.

Bonzolead

[dah145]

has anyone hear some of his early Zep solos, like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d-RZFxwcX0

he played slightly different but still with the bonhamesque hit, he was crazy, hear that bass drum.

BTW, from 5: 20 to 5:55 is that humanly possible?

[supermac]

My first big influence.

His legacy grows as the years pass.

Even stuff I didn't like at the time like The Crunge, Fool In The Rain, Hots On For Nowhere were years ahead of their time.

The James Dean of drumming....

[elpipo]

Hi! I am new here. I am from Argentina and I spoke spanish but I will try to write in Spanish as well as I can. hehe, I really love John Bonham. I think he didn´t born in Earth. He´s fantastic and used amazing techniques. Although this, I prefer Roger Taylor. R.T is my favourite drummer. I have only 16 years old. I want you to introduce me in this DruM World cause I have been playing drums since 15. (one year ago)

[Ian Williams]

The James Dean of drumming....

Or The Jimi Hendrix of the drums..!

[bonzolead]

Or The Jimi Hendrix of the drums..!

That's funny I've said that for years. kudos.

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

That's funny I've said that for years. kudos.

Bonzolead

Thanks, mate. I think it fits much better for John Bonham.

So long,

[Ian Williams]

Colleagues,

I have got a question for you:

Did John Bonham ever played a double bass drum set? Somewhere? On/Off Tour? Do you have pictures?

Thanks & Regards,

[LM201]

Here's the double bass kit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX8YsJ0TbMc

[Ian Williams]

Here's the double bass kit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX8YsJ0TbMc

Thanks a lot, mate. I will check.

[doorstilend]

does anybody know bonham influences? tnx

[Aggressivec]

does anybody know bonham influences? tnx

Well he really liked drummers like Gene Krupa and Joe Morello. The way he tuned his toms were influenced by the sound of big band drummers that he would listen to when he was a kid. Hope this helps!

[supermac]

Re: Bonham influences...


On Steve Smith's latest DVD Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants, Steve demonstrates one or two Max Roach tom-tom/bass drum licks which he says influenced Bonham.

Indeed, when you listen to them, they are clearly early versions of classic Bonham triplet/flam licks which he used on the likes of Moby Dick, Stairway, Dazed and Confused etc.

[doorstilend]

thanks guys for replying, i was thinking about elvin jones also

[elpareja]

Bonham: a God of drums

[Guz2]

For some reason I didn't think much of Bonham at first, but now I'm totally addicted to his groove! In fact, he's probably my biggest influence now.

[purelee4fun]

BONZO IS THE BEST LOVE NO QUATER BONHAM DRUM SOLOS GO TO SALADRECORDS.COM BONHAM FILES IT WILL ROCK YOUR WORLD J.P

[purelee4fun]

bonham once tryed to glue two bass drum's together to get a deeper sound

[LM201]

bonham once tryed to glue two bass drum's together to get a deeper sound

Where'd you hear that from?

[Mr. Dyck]

The Crunge still blows my mind. I think Bonzo and JPJ were the best rhythym section ever in rock. Just listen to the Lemon Song.

[purelee4fun]

radio interview like in 75

[penguin91874]

does any one know of anywhere i can find a transcription of moby dick

[LM201]

does any one know of anywhere i can find a transcription of moby dick

Modern Drummer transcribed it in a recent issue. I'll see which one it is and get back to you

[waltondrummer]

The Crunge still blows my mind. I think Bonzo and JPJ were the best rhythm section ever in rock. Just listen to the Lemon Song.



And the people said...."AMEN!" Probably the simplest and most accurate statement I've heard in a long while on this 'puter thang.

[pcmckay]

does anybody know bonham influences? tnx

I have read several articles where they talk about Bonham's influences. In one of these articles Robert Plant talks about how Bonham was amazed with and very much influenced by Buddy Rich, he felt that the drummer for Jethro Tull whos name escapes me right now, was the best rock drummer that England ever produced. And later on he used to go see Billy Cobham play and was a big fan of his playing. Growing up he really loved the big band drummers. And was also influenced by Ginger Baker to some extent.

[michael drums]

I have read several articles where they talk about Bonham's influences. In one of these articles Robert Plant talks about how Bonham was amazed with and very much influenced by Buddy Rich, he felt that the drummer for Jethro Tull whos name escapes me right now, was the best rock drummer that England ever produced. And later on he used to go see Billy Cobham play and was a big fan of his playing. Growing up he really loved the big band drummers. And was also influenced by Ginger Baker to some extent.

It might be Barriemore Barlow. The drummer you may be thinking of, pcmckay.

Or...Clive Bunker.


;-)

[aydee]

JB meant Barlow. Barlow & Baker were the cats amongst his peers,he thought were good. He also knew all along that he was very good.

[michael drums]

JB meant Barlow. Barlow & Baker were the cats amongst his peers,he thought were good. He also knew all along that he was very good.

And there you have it.


Absolutely, aydee!

[Vipercussionist]

Let's not forget the influence of Carmine Appice!! It was HE who got Bonham playing the BIG LUDWIGS!!

[pcmckay]

I also forgot to mention Cozy Powell. Powell and Bonham were good friends and he was another peer of Bonzo's that he respected as well. And yes Carmine was another peer that he respected, when Vanilla Fudge was the headliner for one Zeppelins first tours Carmine and Bonzo were always trading ideas. And Carmine is responsible for getting Bonham the Ludwig endorsement.

[aydee]

The guy he truly enjoyed jamming with was the drummer of Bad Company ( forget the guy's name...)

[bonzolead]

The guy he truly enjoyed jamming with was the drummer of Bad Company ( forget the guy's name...)
Simon Kirke I think that's the spelling, Bad Company was one of the first bands too be signed on LZ record label "Swan Song"

Bonzolead

[Ian Williams]

does anybody know bonham influences? tnx

Gene Krupa, Buddy Rich and Soul music.

[Ian Williams]

Where'd you hear that from?

I know who has done that, the drummer for The Cardigans. I watched it in an interviewing video.

[kwolf68]

Great drummer. No brainer.

[neil68]

I'm new to drumming, apart from a kit as a three year old (nearly 40 years ago) and have to say thanks for all the contribtions to this thread. I've read a few posts from the start and end and will go through the rest of it at some point.

JBs sound, pocket, feel or whatever you want to call it, has always been my main attraction to Led Zeppelin and reading this thread has reconfirmed that he had something relatively different and special.

I'll be looking around the forum for guidance in learning but thought I'd sign off with this link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlkJC6eoKeA
I did a quick search for The Senators and got no results here, so enjoy John Bonhams first recording.

[ggdrum1]

Bonham was an absolutely awsome drummer, such a great style and feel. There are some cool pics, vids, quotes, set-up info and a bio over at http://www.total-drums.com/john-bonham.html

Zeppelin did the right thing by stopping after his death, he was so important to the band's sound. His son Jason has done a good job at the O2 gig, but it's still just not the same.

What a legend.

[IGG]

Coming up, I was enthralled with John Bonham and Neil Peart at the same time...I think it was a pretty good way to learn. One drummer influences you to try anything, the other influences you to know where to put the things you've tried and learned.

Thank you John Henry Bonham.

[Morbid Koala]

Does anyone know what sizes Jason plays? I read a feature on him in an old Modern Drummer right before the '07 reunion and said he uses a 26" but aside from that show, most photos of his kits don't appear to be 26".

Thanks for any info on this mild curiosity.

[cdrums21]

I recently played a show with Jason Bonham and Foreigner and his kit was a vistalite Ludwig kit, 12" rack tom, 16" and 18" floor toms and a 22" kick drum I believe.

http://i40.tinypic.com/143ztlj.jpg

[slingerland755]

12" rack? Interesting...I would think he would use at least a 13' or 14".

[tryggdahl]

Love John Bonham, definitely a musical inspiration for me!

[Ian Williams]

12" rack? Interesting...I would think he would use at least a 13' or 14".

I use a 12" and 13" rack toms. They give, that lovely heavy pounding sound.

[JHBThunder842]

No one better than JHB, Rest in peace my friend, rest in peace.

[JHBThunder842]

Ever heard of this quote by Bonzo...he once said to Robert Plant

"You ARE good. But you are half as good as a singer as I am a drummer"


Comments anyone?? and please, dont point out the arrogance in this quote...he was just being honest....:)=

Lol I remember reading that quote! I don't remember if its from Stair Way To Heaven Bio, or Thunder of Drums, but john is my personal favorite and will forever live on in the world of drumming as a God.

[Toby_Jackson]

Recently switched over to a Bonham-style 1 rack + 2 floor toms set-up, fitted with coated Remos and clears on the bottom tuned at least a whole tone above the batters. Drums sound FAT!

[scorch whammin]

Still my favorite rock drummer....incredible groove, monster sound, great foot, hand speed, etc....I met his son many years ago when he was playing with Virginia Wolf....also a very good drummer.

[bonzolead]

Lol I remember reading that quote! I don't remember if its from Stair Way To Heaven Bio, or Thunder of Drums, but john is my personal favorite and will forever live on in the world of drumming as a God.
One of my favorite stories from Thunder of Drums is when Bonham would show up at the pub about 2:00am and order 50 Heineken's LOL..........only Bonham or maybe Moonie LOL

Bonzolead

[danduffy1964]

Bonzo had 'feel'.

I've always looked at Physical Grafitti & Presence as influence . All Zep albums were amazing :) I just became more locked into those 2 albums as a teen .

[Ian Williams]

With due respect, what calls my attention from John Bonham. It's that He never recognized and admitted that He learnt few things from Carmine Appice.

Ian Paice and Cozy Powell had admitted it.

[Pachikara-Tharakan]

Everyone learn something from someone else. The trick is mix all those and comeup with something our own.

[jake_larson]

I remember the first time I heard led zepplin about six years ago I honestly didnt like them and didnt see what was so great about Bonham. I started hearing his name pop up over and over again so I decided to check them out. I am really glad I did that. Bonham is such a great drummer with a nice powerful feel.