John Bonham

[mediocrity]

Hmm, although its cool it doesnt have the bonzo feel to it, cant really explain why but I think its fake.

[C.J]

The hi-hat's all over the place.Definatly not Bonham.

[bonham990]

not even close to bonham.

[intooder]

I have to agree with the majority and say none of it sounds like Bonzo. the snare has too much of a jazz/fusion sound to it (probably a more modern tuning than from back then). The kick drum is barely audible, and when it is, it's nothing spectacular. The cymbal attacks are too weak. Overall the drummer just doesn't sound like he/she has the confidence of Bonham's playing and the timing sounds a bit off at times. To me it sounds like a marching snare drummer, just learning to play a full kit - not Bonzo.

[pcmckay]

I hope someone can help me hear. I watched the video clips on this web site of Olcheltree talking about Bonzo's tuning techniques. Well I am getting a great sound out of the 14" tom, 18" floor tom , snare, and the bass drum but the 16" floor tom sounds horrible. I have the bottom heads tuned higher then the top heads like he suggests, everything else sounds great but the floor tom just rings for days it seems like. In the video the floor tom just decays very quickly without any muffeling, that is the sound I am going for. Does anyone know for sure how much higher the bottom heads should be compared to the batter side?

[Kaz]

there is no solid answer. it's not even logical to have your heads at the same pressure through all of them when you press your finger in. you'll have an odd, uneven degression of pitch if you try to tune your heads all to the same "pressure."

just mess with it. you know what the sound needs to be. if it's ringing, it's resonating. the logical debugger would say that the resonant head is thus at fault for the excessive resonance.

but then again, what do logical debuggers know?

tune your resonant head down a bit, and then do whatever you'd like to your floor tom.

i personally dont think bonhams toms sounded good at all, but that's your set you're tuning.

[pcmckay]

I really like this type of tuning because sometimes I play in situations in which I am not miked, so having the bottom heads tuned way up helps with projection. I personally really like Bonham's total sound, it fits with my playing style very well.

[cdrums21]

I also love this type of tuning as it reduces excess resonance, throws the sound back up at you and is real punchy. It works great in a number of situations that I have been involved in with tuning drums, my own and other artists. If you got the 18" tom sounding good, to me that would be the toughest. Here's what I know from my experiences with this type of tuning.

When you say the 16" tom sounds horrible, what exactly do you mean? Too much sustain? Too floppy? Too high pitched? There is no exact answer to how much tighter the bottom head should be, but as a general rule, it usually works if the heads are in a relationship that is complimentary to one another. What I mean is, the bottom head usually works well on floor toms a third (4 notes) higher on the bottom than on the top. That's how Frankie Banali from Quiet Riot, who is a huge Bonham fan and has a vintage 1969 kit in the Bonham sizes, tunes his floor toms, with the top heads at a slightly higher tension than one would think. (Coated emperors over coated ambassadors)

Then, the drums are in tune with each other in that the two floor toms are in a complimentary relationship as well, (probably thirds or fourths) which eliminates weird overtones when you strike them together and avoids frequency cancellation, which enables each drum to project to it's fullest, making the floor toms sound huge.

It sounds to me like you're almost there, you just need to tweak the drums a bit. I would forget about the other drums for a second and start over with the 16" tom, getting it to sound good, and then try to compliment that drum with the others. You should make out OK. If you have any specific questions you can always email me and we can put our heads together to get those puppies sounding monstrous..

[pcmckay]

Thanks for responding to my question. When I say the 16" sounds horrible it just has to much sustain, the 14" and 18" have very short sustain. They sound very big and full, but the sustain fades very nicely. Sometimes I have to put my hand on the 16" top head to get it to stop ringing. I'm using Remo Coated Emperors on the top, Remo Coated Ambassadors on the bottom. In the Ocheltree video he says that the "bottom head on the 14" sounds like a snare getting tuned and hence the other drums go down from there." I have tried that and I think the 16" bottom head is too tight and I think that is why it has too much sustain. But I loosen it up and then it just sounds completely different then the other two toms. It sounds very flat and dead, it just doesn't fit with the very round sound I am getting out of the other two toms.

[harryconway]

Sounds to me like you're in the ballpark, and just need to tweak that 16 into perfection. If it really never hits that mark however, a small strip of felt run underneath the batter head will probably fix it.

[neilpscuz]

Old studio joke,"can you make my drums sound like John Bonhams? Sure, I'll call him and see if he can come down!"Translation-it's the drummer, not the drums.:o)

[cdrums21]

Thanks for responding to my question. When I say the 16" sounds horrible it just has to much sustain, the 14" and 18" have very short sustain. They sound very big and full, but the sustain fades very nicely. Sometimes I have to put my hand on the 16" top head to get it to stop ringing. I'm using Remo Coated Emperors on the top, Remo Coated Ambassadors on the bottom. In the Ocheltree video he says that the "bottom head on the 14" sounds like a snare getting tuned and hence the other drums go down from there." I have tried that and I think the 16" bottom head is too tight and I think that is why it has too much sustain. But I loosen it up and then it just sounds completely different then the other two toms. It sounds very flat and dead, it just doesn't fit with the very round sound I am getting out of the other two toms.

The only other thing I can think of is to try to find a pitch and feel on the top head of the 16" tom that you are happy with, then tune the bottom head up 3 to 4 notes higher than that to see if that works, rather than get too scientific with the pitch relationships and all that. You should be able to shorten the sustain with the bottom head tighter, it just may be a bit more sensitive than the other two, or possibly a bad batter head.

[cdrums21]

Once you do find the problem and get the drum happening, please let us know. I would be very interested to find out what the solution ends up being. I know the dilemna you have in that you want to have all of the toms exhibit the same characteristics (punchy, round, equal sustain, etc.). If you go messing with muffling or a different tuning on the 16" tom, it will stick out like a sore thumb and won't sound like it's part of the kit. If it was me, I would start over by cranking up the top head and then slowly de-tune it until I found a pitch and feel that fit in with the top heads of the other drums you tuned. Then I would tune the bottom head up 3 to 4 notes higher, like I said in the prior post, to see if that did the trick. If that still doesn't reduce the sustain, then I would probably try replacing the batter head and try again. How much tighter do you have the bottom heads on the other two toms? The same amount? You probably have already done this, but if there is say 4 notes seperating the top and bottom heads on the other two toms, that should give you an idea that the 16" tom heads should be seperated by 4 notes as well. Do you know what I mean? I'm all out of suggestions and possible solutions, good luck and please let us know how you make out.

[CASP3Rdrummer]

The only other thing I can think of is to try to find a pitch and feel on the top head of the 16" tom that you are happy with, then tune the bottom head up 3 to 4 notes higher than that to see if that works, rather than get too scientific with the pitch relationships and all that. You should be able to shorten the sustain with the bottom head tighter, it just may be a bit more sensitive than the other two, or possibly a bad batter head.

How can he really know how much is 3 or 4 notes higher . i never understood notes in drums .

[cdrums21]

As you tune a drum head, the lug points on the head will produce a certain pitch/note. To get the head in tune with itself, all the lug points should be tuned to the same pitch/note. Once you know what the pitch/note is, you can tune in intervals and know how to tune the bottom head three to four notes higher. It makes all the difference in really fine tuning your sound to eliminate unwanted overtones and sympathetic vibration.

[Tex12]

I love the triplet patterns John used to play with his foot

[mediocrity]

Ah, I love Bonzo. His Moby Dick solo was what made me want to start drumming.

Thanks for the tracks.

[capnrusty]

Those outtakes are great. What a sound...amazing...

[neilpscuz]

Way to go!! Very nice story and clips, and my favorite studio joke"Can you make my drums sound like John Bonhams? Sure I'll call and see if he can come down!"-It's the drummer, not the drums!

[beatsMcGee]

that was awesome thanks so much, i loved Bonham's work so much, one of my all time fav drummers

[AllTheCoolNamesAreTaken]

How can anyone not love Bonham? I imagine most of us were amazed by the simple power of "When the Levee Breaks" or the complexity of "Good Times Bad Times" before we even thought about picking up the sticks ourselves.

The two drummers who have been the best guidance for me are Bonham and Stewart Copeland. Different kinds of drummers, both excellent for different reasons.

[noahr31]

John Bonham is awesome. He is my favorite drummer. The grooves he came up with just fit the song perfectly. He truely is the greatest rock drummer ever.

[Zildjian232]

joooooohn booooooonahm.

there was always something about his drumming. everyone knows he wasnt as good as peart or bozzio, but he had so much power and feel. i enjoy the drumming from kashmir more than the drumming of peart in YYZ . when i wtch the zeppelin concert dvds im just overwhemled. its a certain feeling i get everytime he starts playing. Every single note he played will be the only notes you should play if you play a zeppelin song. The outro of " the rain song" is a great example of his power. His drumsound is something that will never ever be reproduced. Even if you get a oringal JB drumkit he played, you still cant. HES JOHN BONHAM! im sure he can get a 18' bass drum and a piccolo snare and make that kick sound like a 24' and that snare sound like a 14inch snare. The only drummer ive seen come close to bohnam is danny carey. his drumsound is phenomonal and the way he plays has just as much power and bonhams. like that triplet beat he was doing in the middle of aneima. i know this isnt a danny carey forum but if a drummer is powerful, then you can feel it

john bonahm is a legend and he has my ulimate respect

long live bonzo!

[drumminjohn]

i was watching the song remains the same movie the other day and i noticed during one of the songs bonzo was talking to himself?? has anyone else noticed this?? also you can hear it on the in through the out door outtakes..

[RamboKnife]

I find I do that too, I sing the drum parts/guitar parts. It helps me get into the song more.

[pdp 9091]

watch on the zep dvd and watch black dog...ull see bonham doin it alot

[nhzoso]

Yeah I know the feeling, my wife does the same thing.

She says she talks to angels, says they all know her name.. Wacky!

[dizkneelande]

come on now that's just cheezy! black crows are pretty groovin tho

[BenjiMachine]

He makes sounds in the same way you can count...and also i think there is the fact he was once quoted as saying he like to shout like a bear when playing because it gave it a 'boost'...

[fullmoon]

what is he doing at about 6:45 - 6:50 i cant quite figure it out


edit: please tab out

[aahznightsky]

You shouldnt need a tab ... he's playing along with the guitar ... the rhythm is matched with his bass drum ... and a snare hit is played right before each hit. And then add some pretty ghost notes around!

[chewaz]

i know this an old question but wich cymbals exactly did Bonham used? ,i know the 2002 and the giant beat, and the big 24" ride and the 15" soundedge, but i have been never sure about the crases, and if he ever used a china

[kickit100]

ah.. bonzo what cant u say about him, great drummer and really felt it as the audience did too. very big inspiration for me as well

[KzSgDrummer]

i know this an old question but wich cymbals exactly did Bonham used?

For the majority of his career, his two main crashes were the 16" and 18" 2002 Mediums. For instance, the first crash at :00 of Kashmir is the 18". And because of him I at one point had both those crashes plus the 14" Sound Edges and the 20" Ride (I was a little bit obsessed hehe). I still have the 18" and the hi-hats, and I'll never willingly let them go. I had a dream about the 18" cracking where I cried and then got really really pissed off and started wrecking other non-drum related stuff..!

[chewaz]

For the majority of his career, his two main crashes were the 16" and 18" 2002 Mediums. For instance, the first crash at :00 of Kashmir is the 18". And because of him I at one point had both those crashes plus the 14" Sound Edges and the 20" Ride (I was a little bit obsessed hehe). I still have the 18" and the hi-hats, and I'll never willingly let them go. I had a dream about the 18" cracking where I cried and then got really really pissed off and started wrecking other non-drum related stuff..!

:O. so he never used a china¿¿?? have you notice an 18 Avedis medium crash weights less than a 18" 2002 crash wich's suppoused to be a medium weight,

[Ashton Drum's]

This is my first post in this thread havent read any others

I really like this guy (in a drummer way not a gay way) and think hes a great drummer
in a great band well was in a great band

[themac5150]

i know this an old question but wich cymbals exactly did Bonham used? ,i know the 2002 and the giant beat, and the big 24" ride and the 15" soundedge, but i have been never sure about the crases, and if he ever used a china

This is where lots of conflicting information comes in. The Paiste website says he used a 16" medium,18" medium, 18" ride, 24" ride and of course the 15" sound edges, and 38" symphonic gong. Jeff Ocheltree's video claimed it was an 18" and 20" medium crash, with the 24" ride and 15" hh and on occasion, would use an additional 18" medium crash on the right behind the 20". Then there is the Paiste list floating around on the web that is supposed to be the actual agreement between JB and Paiste. You can see that here: http://www.netsnapshot.com/pcw/buildalbum-cgi?ACCOUNT=9334&KEY=1
Then the book, says he used a 16" or 18" on the left and an 18" medium ride for crashing on his right. The book also said sometimes he used a 20" or a 22" crash/ride on the right. Its safe to say he had a lot of different sizes that he mixed and matched when he felt like it. The only size I didn't see on the Paiste list was the 22". But he was John Bonham, and could've been given one or picked one up anywhere. No china is ever mentioned, but neither are the exrta instruments used during studio work. I have the all of the studio albums on cd, and I haven't picked up on a china being used in there, but I can't say he NEVER used one. Personally, it wouldn't be "his" sound, he had that sound that he maintained throughout his career. To me, a china just doesn't fit in there.

[pdp 9091]

For the majority of his career, his two main crashes were the 16" and 18" 2002 Mediums.


no i believe his main crashes were 18" and 20"

[pdp 9091]

i laughed when i saw this little page

http://www.hvrsd.k12.nj.us/timberlane/students/cameronh/john_bonhan_gear.htm

[dizkneelande]

omfg!!!! that's horrible

[MyNameIsRyan]

Hahahaahhahaha rofl, I never knew smoke on the water was played by the great Led Zeppelin. Does anyone know how he died in 1981 because I'm sure I dont. Wow that was worse than the thread about the review on the person who thought Zeppelin was terrible.

[pdp 9091]

but this just takes the cake on the dumbest statement ever about bonham (besides "bonham is god")

"He played with Zildjian Hot Rod sticks."

[pdp 9091]

On the Zep dvd when they are playin Nobody's Fault But Mine at Knebworth, his drumming is so solid and tight. I love his playing on this song live. Check right where Plant comes in with the harmonica around 6:40 in the knebworth section. His drumming is so tight...i love it

[dizkneelande]

but this just takes the cake on the dumbest statement ever about bonham (besides "bonham is god")

"He played with Zildjian Hot Rod sticks."

rofl!!!!!!!!!! that's soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sooooooooooooooo funny

[foursticks]

Hahahaha, he also mentions how Led Zeppelin broke up in 1979 and how Bonzo died in 1980 due to unknown reasons...

[pdp 9091]

i know this site has been posted before but take a look through all of these zeppelin rehersals/outtakes/studio jams/alternate takes from all their albums. This stuff is raw studio material of the great plant, pagey, jonsey, and bonzo themselves. So interesting

http://sessions.led-zeppelin.us/


EDIT** listen to the studio jam in the physical graffiti section. Its so awesome to listen to all the band members inovating.

[pdp 9091]

ever hear bonzo sing? I heard a recording of a live performance where he sings along with plant on battle of evermore

[dizkneelande]

1. Zep's over-rated.
2. Bonzo is MORE talented than page or plant put together.
3. Most of Zep's songs were plagarized... google it if you don't believe me or just listen to the
small faces "You need lovin'" for one blatent example and you will see who plant tries to
sound like, but sounds like a ridiculous parady of.
4. Plant was real creepy looking, still is. He gives me the willies.


i disagree with this entire post

[baldmann]

I`ve scanned Bonzo`s page from an old Paiste book, Profiles of International Drummers and Percussionists. This book came out in the early to mid 70`s.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f164/baldmann/bonham.jpg
Hope the link works!

[KzSgDrummer]

no i believe his main crashes were 18" and 20"

No I still believe it was the 16 and 18 inchers, and the above image backs me up.

I've spent hours upon hours watching The Song Remains The Same and I'm almost positive that what he was using for that show/tour are the 16/18s, and going by what they sound like there and on record, I'm inclined to think he used them most of the time. Of course he probably had every 2002 Paiste made back then, but..

[BenjiMachine]

ever hear bonzo sing? I heard a recording of a live performance where he sings along with plant on battle of evermore

He never has sung along on Battle of evermore (It was JPJ in 1977 doing the sandy denny part), he has sung along on tangerine (just as a harmony vocal)...I dont think there is anything else...

If It was you that asked about his death, it was september 25th 1980, and just look at his article in wikipedia for the details it was to to inhalation of vomit after 48 shots of vodka...

[pdp 9091]

If It was you that asked about his death, it was september 25th 1980, and just look at his article in wikipedia for the details it was to to inhalation of vomit after 48 shots of vodka...


no i never asked

20 20 20 20

[Stix]

i know this an old question but wich cymbals exactly did Bonham used? ,i know the 2002 and the giant beat, and the big 24" ride and the 15" soundedge, but i have been never sure about the crases, and if he ever used a china
He used 16,18,20 giant and later 2002 medium crashes.I think he never used china.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

I only ever see two crashes on Bonhams kit. And judging by... well, everything, it's a 16" and an 18" 2oo2, at least on the later recordings.

[beatsMcGee]

ever hear bonzo sing? I heard a recording of a live performance where he sings along with plant on battle of evermore


i could of swore that on one of the vids here on DW i see bonham doing back up vocals... MAYBE

[Sonor]

On the Led Zep DVD Bonzo backs up vocals on The Ocean and Bron-Y-Aur Stomp.

[BenjiMachine]

^^ Uhhu youre right i forgot about those...:s

[pdp 9091]

He never has sung along on Battle of evermore (It was JPJ in 1977 doing the sandy denny part), he has sung along on tangerine (just as a harmony vocal)...I dont think there is anything else.

no he did sing on battle of evermore. It was on a live recording where plan announced that bonzo was going to come up front which he states he barley ever does and help out with vocals. ( he wasnt that great though lol)

[handito]

My top 3 Bonzo tunes would be:
1) In My Time Of Dying
2) Out on the Tiles
3) Heartbreaker- BBC sessions

[TomasHakkesBrain]

My top 3 Bonzo tunes would be:
1) In My Time Of Dying
2) Out on the Tiles
3) Heartbreaker- BBC sessions

My Favs:-
1)Black Dog BBCsessions
2)Immigrant Song BBC Sessions
3)Kashmir
4)When the Levee Breaks
5)Achilles Last Stand
6)Babe in Gonna Leave You
7)Since ive been lovin you (live in NY)

[pdp 9091]

1. Dazed and Confused (Denmarks radio on zep dvd)
2. Good Times Bad Times
3. Nobody's fault but mine (Knebworth '79)
4. Ending to Rock and Roll (Knebworth '79)

[BenjiMachine]

[QUOTE=pdp 9091]no he did sing on battle of evermore. It was on a live recording where plan announced that bonzo was going to come up front which he states he barley ever does and help out with vocals. ( he wasnt that great though lol)[/QUOTE

It must have been a '77 tour date, which one is it? or where is it?
He normaly comes and helps with a tambourine but i didnt know he sang on it...

[pdp 9091]

no he did sing on battle of evermore. It was on a live recording where plan announced that bonzo was going to come up front which he states he barley ever does and help out with vocals. ( he wasnt that great though lol)

It must have been a '77 tour date, which one is it? or where is it?
He normaly comes and helps with a tambourine but i didnt know he sang on it...


may 21st 1977


20 characters

[spoonracings2k]

Bonzo did sing sometimes i can remember a few..... the backup for bron-y-aur stomp, the ocean, and in his biography written by his brother mick, theres a picture of him playing guitar and singing with max middleton, ronnie lane, keith moon (amazing i know) ray harper and jimmy page at the rainbow. also according to the bio he sang lead for "Hey Joe" when he was with Reg Jones and the band "Way of Life" which was a few years before zeppelin even formed

[pdp 9091]

Bonzo did sing sometimes i can remember a few..... the backup for bron-y-aur stomp, the ocean, and in his biography written by his brother mick, theres a picture of him playing guitar and singing with max middleton, ronnie lane, keith moon (amazing i know) ray harper and jimmy page at the rainbow. also according to the bio he sang lead for "Hey Joe" when he was with Reg Jones and the band "Way of Life" which was a few years before zeppelin even formed


ya the Rainbow was their absolute pavorite club in cali...or in the world . no suprise it was there...lol...and actually moon and bonham were good friends

[stevo]

Here's a question: A Zep song is proposed. What song is most likely to cause apprehensiveness?
Or for this matter, what drummer might cause you the most apprehensiveness?
Are there those of you out there who can nail any drummer proposed?

Thanks.

[pdp 9091]

i created an audio file where i made the drums stick out so you can hear them the loudest in the intro for all of my love

[Tom B.]

I think I've been to the site before, these sound familiar

[spoonracings2k]

what exactly do you mean?

[spoonracings2k]

yeah bonzo and moon were great friends.... i remember reading in the richard cole biography on zeppelin he said that moon was on stage and playing the bongos during whole lotta love..... i thought that was pretty neat

[contizzl]

my favorite Bonham songs:

1)Moby Dick (i just can't wrap my head around its awesomeness-if that's a word)
2)Fool in the Rain
3)How Many More Times
4)Bonzo's Montreux
5)all the rest...

[KzSgDrummer]

Favorite Bonham songs (in no particular order)

- Babe I'm Gonna Leave You
- Misty Mountain Hop
- The Wanton Song
- Out on the Tiles
- No Quarter from the Song Remains the Same

[pdp 9091]

yeah bonzo and moon were great friends.... i remember reading in the richard cole biography on zeppelin he said that moon was on stage and playing the bongos during whole lotta love..... i thought that was pretty neat


haha ya that was i think in tampa....then at the end the explosions went off and almost blew him off his feet...haha...and after bonzo bought that 60s corvette he was showing it to Moon in front of one of the hotels in cali. They were both sitting in the front seats

[dasilvs]

wow kzsg, thats a short list. what about fool in the rain, one of the most popular yet complicated modern rock drums beats?

[KzSgDrummer]

Welllllllll most people are keeping it to 5 songs or so so I figured I'd do the same. And with Fool in the Rain, it's really really good and I totally think Bonzo is the man, but I prefer Purdie or Porcaro playing that halftime shuffle -- sorry!

EDIT: 10 minutes later and I realize that "Fool in the Rain" is stuck in my head..

[dizkneelande]

Welllllllll most people are keeping it to 5 songs or so so I figured I'd do the same. And with Fool in the Rain, it's really really good and I totally think Bonzo is the man, but I prefer Purdie or Porcaro playing that halftime shuffle -- sorry!

EDIT: 10 minutes later and I realize that "Fool in the Rain" is stuck in my head..

i love his playing on that song cause it fits superbly well

[C.J]

Listen to what Bonzo says at the end of All of my Love. LOL
http://sessions.led-zeppelin.us/

[dizkneelande]

what's he say? i cant hear it

[NUTHA JASON]

'oi go' a headache'


j

[contizzl]

Listen to what Bonzo says at the end of All of my Love. LOL
http://sessions.led-zeppelin.us/


the studio jam in the physical graffiti section is sick

[pdp 9091]

the studio jam in the physical graffiti section is sick

ya its one of my favorite recordings on that site .....totatly awesome

[dizkneelande]

'oi go' a headache'


j


oh i hear it now. oh man i love bonzo

[dizkneelande]

ya its one of my favorite recordings on that site .....totatly awesome


no doubt about it. i got my own copy of it on my pc

[NUTHA JASON]

what is john saying at the end of that studio jam?

f***ing <something something> absolutely streaming in that part...'

j

[spoonracings2k]

does anyone know how i can get a hold of some zep tracks minus the drums? in particular id like to play along with fool in the rain

[MaxOlsson]

No doubt. The best rock drummer of all time.

[pdp 9091]

Ok I just got my vintage blue/olive badge supraphonic snare in the mail today. (6.5X14). I want that classic Bonham sound. I watched the Jeff Ocheltree video on how tune buts its very vague. I know he said remo emperor coated on the top and ambassador on bottom (is the ambassador clear or coated on the bottom side?) Bonham also used a 42 strand system which I can buy from gibralter. Anything else I need to know about tuning. I think the resonant head is cranked wayyy up and the batter is also cranked but not as high. Will this get me the sound im looking for?

[pcmckay]

Ok I just got my vintage blue/olive badge supraphonic snare in the mail today. (6.5X14). I want that classic Bonham sound. I watched the Jeff Ocheltree video on how tune buts its very vague. I know he said remo emperor coated on the top and ambassador on bottom (is the ambassador clear or coated on the bottom side?) Bonham also used a 42 strand system which I can buy from gibralter. Anything else I need to know about tuning. I think the resonant head is cranked wayyy up and the batter is also cranked but not as high. Will this get me the sound im looking for?

First off you want to use a Coated Emperor on the batter side, on the bottom use a clear Ambassador or a clear Diplomat. I am pretty sure Bonzo used clear for the bottom, I have never heard of anyone using anything else. The bottom head should be cranked up significantly higher then the top. The top head should be cranked up high but not to the point of choking the sound. You want the snares to be loose so that you can hear the sensitivity of the snares. You are looking for a nice snarey sound. Sometimes I use a drum dial and to give you an idea my snare batter side is at 90. The bottom is at 100 maybe a little more. You want to make sure you have good seperation between the bottom head and the batter side. Also the way you strike the drum will have an effect on the sound. I would say about 98% of the time Bonzo would strike the snare using a rim shot for power. I hope this helps, enjoy that Supraphonic they are the best!

[pdp 9091]

First off you want to use a Coated Emperor on the batter side, on the bottom use a clear Ambassador or a clear Diplomat. I am pretty sure Bonzo used clear for the bottom, I have never heard of anyone using anything else. The bottom head should be cranked up significantly higher then the top. The top head should be cranked up high but not to the point of choking the sound. You want the snares to be loose so that you can hear the sensitivity of the snares. You are looking for a nice snarey sound. Sometimes I use a drum dial and to give you an idea my snare batter side is at 90. The bottom is at 100 maybe a little more. You want to make sure you have good seperation between the bottom head and the batter side. Also the way you strike the drum will have an effect on the sound. I would say about 98% of the time Bonzo would strike the snare using a rim shot for power. I hope this helps, enjoy that Supraphonic they are the best!


Thanks for the help pcmckay! I have a clear ambassador on the bottom (it came with it) and a pretty beat up coated emperor on the batter side (will be replaced tomorrow). I cranked up the bottom and put the batter side cranked but not as much. So far thats correct. And I actually do hit the snare like a rim shot alot. So thats correct. The sound I get out of it is soooo nice and just to think the head on it is a piece of crap! Cant wait to get a new emeperor coated on there tomorrow. I will prob also pick up a 42 strand snare system and yes I keep my snare fairly loose to get that sensativity.

By the way how much usually does a drum dial cost?

[dizkneelande]

First off you want to use a Coated Emperor on the batter side, on the bottom use a clear Ambassador or a clear Diplomat. I am pretty sure Bonzo used clear for the bottom, I have never heard of anyone using anything else. The bottom head should be cranked up significantly higher then the top. The top head should be cranked up high but not to the point of choking the sound. You want the snares to be loose so that you can hear the sensitivity of the snares. You are looking for a nice snarey sound. Sometimes I use a drum dial and to give you an idea my snare batter side is at 90. The bottom is at 100 maybe a little more. You want to make sure you have good seperation between the bottom head and the batter side. Also the way you strike the drum will have an effect on the sound. I would say about 98% of the time Bonzo would strike the snare using a rim shot for power. I hope this helps, enjoy that Supraphonic they are the best!

.

he used coated ambassadors on the bottom and rim shot 98% of the time? come on now yeah right.

[pdp 9091]

.

he used coated ambassadors on the bottom and rim shot 98% of the time? come on now yeah right.

He did use a coated ambassador if i remember correctly. Watch the Jeff Ocheltree video on bonhams page where he says how he tuned his drums. And then watch how bonham plays with his stick technique.

Take a look

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xgtiU-jNwXc

[rendezvous_drummer]

Good Ol Bonham. I would love to get his kind of sound, but I don't have the drums to achieve a similar sound. Fool in the Rain is definitely Bonham groove.

[pdp 9091]

Ok. I still cant really find the exact bonham snare sound. I want to know how to get the sound he has on zeppelin 4. (you can hear it great on misty mountain hop). thanks

josh

[MunsieMan]

Heres something I came across its John Bonham laying down the drums for his Moby Dick solo it just cuts off at the end, maybe one day the whole thing will be realesed

[spoonracings2k]

get a really deep black beauty supraphonic snare and tune it kinda high :)

[pdp 9091]

get a really deep black beauty supraphonic snare and tune it kinda high :)


Ive got what i need in a snare already. (vintage 70's ludwig supraphonic snare, 42 snare wires, remo emperor coated on top, ambassador on bottom)

[geek_boy_in]

Good Ol Bonham. I would love to get his kind of sound, but I don't have the drums to achieve a similar sound. Fool in the Rain is definitely Bonham groove.

sorry to differ but the half time shuffle played in that song is actually not his patented groove .... his limb progression there is nothing very un-typical when you yourself start playing that shuffle.

but yes the way that beat pulls the song continuously is unique and the drum sound definitely adds to the flavour ........ probably it would be a better point if one argues that only Bonham could articulate that beat so tastefully during the conception of the song ....

[rendezvous_drummer]

sorry to differ but the half time shuffle played in that song is actually not his patented groove .... his limb progression there is nothing very un-typical when you yourself start playing that shuffle.

but yes the way that beat pulls the song continuously is unique and the drum sound definitely adds to the flavour ........ probably it would be a better point if one argues that only Bonham could articulate that beat so tastefully during the conception of the song ....
Oops. I meant to say it's my favorite bonham groove. His patented groove would be in something like moby dick, whole lotta love wouldn't it?

[pcmckay]

.

he used coated ambassadors on the bottom and rim shot 98% of the time? come on now yeah right.

Why is this so outrageous? Bonzo was a power player and the best way to get power out your snare is to strike the drum hitting the rim and the head at the same time! All you have to do is watch video clips and watch his left hand most of the time he strikes the drum with a rim shot. Of course some of the more quiet bluesy tunes he didn't until the music built up to a cresendo. But I am amazed you think is so ridiculous! And yes he did use Coated Ambassadors on the bottom of his toms, but I don't think he used Coated Ambassador on the bottom of the snare. That is the question I was responding to in my reply.

[pdp 9091]

Why is this so outrageous? Bonzo was a power player and the best way to get power out your snare is to strike the drum hitting the rim and the head at the same time! All you have to do is watch video clips and watch his left hand most of the time he strikes the drum with a rim shot. Of course some of the more quiet bluesy tunes he didn't until the music built up to a cresendo. But I am amazed you think is so ridiculous! And yes he did use Coated Ambassadors on the bottom of his toms, but I don't think he used Coated Ambassador on the bottom of the snare. That is the question I was responding to in my reply.


Ya watch on In My Time of Dying on the dvd. Rim shots every stroke seems like. But ya he used coated ambassadors on the bottom of toms but I thought he used a coated ambassador on the bottom on the snare but its a clear. Or sometimes a clear diplomat.

[pcmckay]

Ya watch on In My Time of Dying on the dvd. Rim shots every stroke seems like. But ya he used coated ambassadors on the bottom of toms but I thought he used a coated ambassador on the bottom on the snare but its a clear. Or sometimes a clear diplomat.

Exactly! I have been playing for thirty one years I never have heard of anyone using a Coated head on the bottom of the snare. I would think that would really choke the sound of the drum. Maybe a hazy head but not a Coated. I would go with a Clear Ambassador or Diplomat you will be fine. Keep working with it you will get the sound you are looking for.

[drummajoe]

Has anyone figured out how to mimick john bonhams fills. Can anyone help lead me through mobey dick?

[NUTHA JASON]

study stick control especially the paradiddle combinations.

practice triplets hands only and also hand and foot combos

practice crossovers

single strokes (doubling the speed)

single bass doubles, broken triplets and constant sixteenths

get back to me in 18 months and let me know how it all went.

j

[Wile E. Coyote]

get back to me in 18 months and let me know how it all went.

j
Come on J... You'll be lucky if he doesn't just start crying after that...

[NUTHA JASON]

i was going to say ...and call me in the morning but that would be a hell of a night.
j

[Wile E. Coyote]

hahahahahahaha reminds me my examinations

[XAkitAX]

Ive been dieing to learn this riff! I thought maybe you guys can help me out :)
In dazed and confused, starting at about 4:57 and ending at 5:02 he plays this cool riff i wanna learn :D
anyone wanna help me out with the tabs or something?

ps: thanks in advance

pss: pretty sure this is in the right thread

psss: i searched too didnt find anything

[Ian Ballard]

(edit: never mind this message)

[pdp 9091]

You must be referring to the bass drum triplets he's playing. If this is what you are referring to, he plays it straight away but towards the end, he plays it continually though, "I know it means to be alone...." and then more toward the end of the song.

Simple, but it requires lots of practice to implement it so that it grooves. Basically all you do it play the last two notes of the triplet with your bass drum.

1-bass-drum 2-bass-drum 3-bass-drum 4-bass-drum. Play it V E R Y S L O W L Y until it's perfect... set a metronome at 60 and play it like SNARE-BASS-BASS, SNARE-BASS-BASS... until you are comfortable... then HAT-BASS-BASS... etc. Eventually as you gradually increase the speed and pay attention to your foot technique, making sure each bass note sounds equally, you'll be able to use it within a swung funk groove and you'll get that lick down.


sorry...those arent bass drum triplets. Those are his snare- tom -tom- bass triplets

[Ian Ballard]

sorry...those arent bass drum triplets. Those are his snare- tom -tom- bass triplets

Well, I don't have a copy of the song at hand... perhaps you're right. Either way they are triplets and you would practice R, L, F... until you build speed, the exact same way you would use the bass drums as I explained below.

In fact, mastering both is essential to playing that song.

[Corey]

I believe its something like s-s-b t-t-b T-T-b T-T-B triplets at a very fast tempo


s being snare
t beign his smallest tom
b being bass

[LiveGoat]

One thing's for sure. Bonzo never played it the same way ever. Actually he rarely played anything exactly the same. So I wouldn't worry about learning it note for note.

---LG

[NUTHA JASON]

i disagree. its one of his chops he did use often.

ian said:
"I know it means to be alone...." and then more toward the end of the song.

Simple, but it requires lots of practice to implement it so that it grooves. Basically all you do it play the last two notes of the triplet with your bass drum.

1-bass-drum 2-bass-drum 3-bass-drum 4-bass-drum. Play it V E R Y S L O W L Y until it's perfect... set a metronome at 60 and play it like SNARE-BASS-BASS, SNARE-BASS-BASS... until you are comfortable... then HAT-BASS-BASS... etc. Eventually as you gradually increase the speed and pay attention to your foot technique, making sure each bass note sounds equally, you'll be able to use it within a swung funk groove and you'll get that lick down.

which is the correct description but for a chop in the WRONG SONG...''I know it means to be alone...." is from good times bad times.

i think XAkitAX is referring to the chop bonzo pulls out at the end of the washy guitar solo just before the time signature changes back to 6/8.
this chop is found in other places too (the dvd has several views of it)

it is a triplet cross over. between his snare then his toms always with the third strike on the bass.
S-S-B...T1-T2-B...T2-T2-B...T2-T1-B
L.R.....L..R......L..R......L..R........repeat 4 times and then a massive FLAM on the snare.
...........................CROSS OVER

for an alternative on this where the right hand leads the triplets see this video by Gerson Lima Filho...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kznQBB9zMF0

[Ian Ballard]

It was late.

Too late to give drum advice... or any advice for that matter.

[drumminjohn]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA!!!! i know this is an old discovery for most folks, but ive seen everyone talkin about good times bad times, but ive never really listened to the drums and i just did and oh my (insert religious figure here) that is the greatest thing i have ever heard... i turned the treble all the way down adn the bass all the way up and i almost had a heart attack, right around 2 minutes till about 2:20 will make any drummer faint.. bonham truely is the best.

[drummajoe]

thank you very much do you have any other articles on techniques of other drummers. You see me and this zepplin tribute band are gonna play mobey dick and when i do the solo i want to utalize as much of john bonham technique as i can.

[Joe Kearney]

thank you very much do you have any other articles on techniques of other drummers. You see me and this zepplin tribute band are gonna play mobey dick and when i do the solo i want to utalize as much of john bonham technique as i can.


All I can say to that is good luck, don't make yourself look like an idiot.

[FunkTional Art]

John Bonham was known to yell out during Zep's performance the word CANON'S

SO NEXT TIME YOUR ROCKIN OUT AND THE BANDS COOKIN AND YOUR IN YOUR ELEMENT SHOUT OUT
CANON'S
IN TRIBUTE TO JOHN BONZO BONHAM .... THE BEST ROCK DRUMMER TO EVER LIVE !!!
BONHAM LIVES ON

[NUTHA JASON]

hmm... thanks for that one.

http://www.deepwaterbay.com/rusmos125a.jpg

j

[bonzolead]

If your looking for a good Bonham exercise try hitting tom,bass drum,floor tom,hit only one drum at a time start slow and then increase the tempo steadily remember no two drums should hit at the same time I can't. read music or tab so I hope you understand
this is a good exercise for your hand,feet cordination.Bonham was such a feel,groove type player wit a incredible right foot so you really got to have a good meter and i don't. mean metranome I mean enternally. good luck.

Bonzolead

[RamboKnife]

^ Those are some big balls....


...

[CooManChu]

^ Those are some big balls....


...
Who's going to start it? OK, I'm game.

"Oh, I've got big balls, and she's got big balls" etc. etc.

[Stu_Strib]

Bonham fills are not overly-technical nor are they tricky combinations. The impossible part of Bonham fills is playing them like he did, which nobody seems to be able to do. That's what made Bonham so great.

[Wile E. Coyote]

That's what made Bonham so great.
Great to see you back Stu!
I really don't get that about Bonham... The thing is that I never liked him so much, but you seem to really love him! Maybe I didn't listen to him propperly. What's that special thing he has that I missed?
No mean to offend!!

[bonzolead]

Well Wile E.,Mr. Bonham would send chills up club owners backs that's why they would not let a band that Bonham was their drummer play,he was one of the first drummers to play their kit with their hands,have a Gong and kettle(typani) drums into a standard 5 piece kit.His groove and style was and still is unmatched.too this day 26 yrs. after his death he is still one of the most influencial rock drummers if not the most of all time.he did so much with so little.have a go at "achilles last stand","moby dick","bonzo's montreux","the lemon song",one of my favorites "poor tom".and when you watched him there is always something cool when you see him try to beat the hell out of his kit on one song and bring a seat and a tamborine to the front of the stage when Led Zeppelin would do their acoustic set(which they were one of the first hard rock bands to do).not to mention the antics that went on backstage.But hey different strokes for different fokes.I always try to find something cool in every drummer famous or not that I hear.at least their not one of those goofy Guitar players(lol).

Bonzolead

[Thomas]

'Has anyone figured out how to mimick john bonhams fills. Can anyone help lead me through mobey dick?'

i'm with you man ! i watched moby dick over and over on drummerworld and find it impossible to mimick. He uses alot of triplet fills, that i do know.

Bonham; mind-boggling.

[pdp 9091]

'Has anyone figured out how to mimick john bonhams fills. Can anyone help lead me through mobey dick?'

i'm with you man ! i watched moby dick over and over on drummerworld and find it impossible to mimick. He uses alot of triplet fills, that i do know.

Bonham; mind-boggling.


no not really

20 characters

[Stu_Strib]

What's that special thing he has that I missed?
No mean to offend!!

No offense. I believe the recordings speak for themselves. There really is no need to explain.

[NUTHA JASON]

yes, i agree with stu. listen to bonzo and then if you can try to listen to a few zep covers and see how, in spite of playing the drum parts correctly, the drummer somehow fails to sound 'bonham'. even try recording yourself doing a few bonham pieces and you probably will hear something missing.
i've made bonham the central character in my drumming for more than 10 years. i do not wish to copy his chops but i do try to emmulate 2 aspects of his drumming:
- his creativity (which is to say that i must be original if i can but approach the new song in the way i believe he would attack it)
- his feel (volume and placement and all)

i listen and have listened to zep nearly every day for the last decade so in a way i judge all other drummers against that backgound...and while a lot of them have more chops i find the feel is not there. some do have it tho. abe laboriel jr is a good exampleof a drummer in this category:
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Abe_Laboriel_jr.html

j

[Wile E. Coyote]

Ok! I guess I'll have to give him another chance! Lol
I'll listen through whatever I find and let you know if my life changed after that... hehehe

[NUTHA JASON]

cool so i'llexpect a PM with the result in 10 years?

j

[cdrums21]

Yeah,
If you had ten of the most mentioned drummers play the beginning lick to "When the levee breaks", NONE of them would cop that sound and feel. He was one of a kind for that reason....the feel and the sound.

[Wile E. Coyote]

cool so i'llexpect a PM with the result in 10 years?

j
no man... I hope I'll be able to understand it in a shorter time... It cannot be sooooo complicated.

[joeybeats]

Check out the Special Features segment of the History of The US Beat DVD by Steve Smith. He breaks them down and plays them, to my ears anyway, pretty damn well. I agree that they do not seem overly difficult, to play. Just really creative and unique.
A smile to my face every time I hear any Zep song. Pure bliss.

edit ... I'm an idiot, what can I say. Been attempting to read some charts of Bonham's fills for the last few days. Extremely difficult for someone with my skills. Still, I look forward to the day that I can give it another try. The guy was an amazing drummer.

[Big Al Cal]

"But we've got the biggest balls of them all!"

Now back to Bonzo...

[NUTHA JASON]

T1 |...L....................
T2 |......R.................
T3 |..............RL..LR....
Sn |R........R..RL......LR..
Bd |.RR.RR.RR.RR....RR....RR
-----3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3-

Here's a little exercise i concocted to get my bonham foot triplets going. i start really slowly at 80bpm and increase by 5bpm every minute aiming to keep them neat up to 172bpm (at which tempo you will be playing the bass trips at the same speed as 'good times bad times' (86bpm). i also orchestrate the hand parts on other parts of the kit for variety.

[Jay.B.]

Oops. I meant to say it's my favorite bonham groove. His patented groove would be in something like moby dick, whole lotta love wouldn't it?

They're great grooves indeed, and speaking of whole lotta love, as a band we have decided we would like to play this song, I know a lot of people think certain songs should never be touched, and if they are then they should be done as close to the original as possible. this is probably a huge can of worms as I remember the stairway thread that was knocking around a while ago which although was quite funny, was also rather cringe worthy.

[CooManChu]

T1 |...L....................
T2 |......R.................
T3 |..............RL..LR....
Sn |R........R..RL......LR..
Bd |.RR.RR.RR.RR....RR....RR
-----3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3-

Here's a little exercise i concocted to get my bonham foot triplets going. i start really slowly at 80bpm and increase by 5bpm every minute aiming to keep them neat up to 172bpm (at which tempo you will be playing the bass trips at the same speed as 'good times bad times' (86bpm). i also orchestrate the hand parts on other parts of the kit for variety.

Thanks for this idea - it looks very useful.

[spoonracings2k]

can anyone explain his lick on "the crunge"? out of all of his grooves, that one is the most elusive in my opinion. i cant even think of how it can be transcribed.

[NUTHA JASON]

odd times.



4/4
9/8
5/8
bpm = 90
......................|------------6x----|
C .|------------------|------------------|------------------|x---------------|
HH |----------X---x-xX|--X---x-x-X---x-xX|--X---x-x-X-------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|--------------o---|gg----o--o----o---|gg----o--o----F-o-|----o-------o---|
Bd |----------o------o|--oo------o------o|--oo------o--o----|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf.|------------x-----|-x--x-------x-----|-x--x-------------|----------------|
...|1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------x-----|----------------|----------x---x---|x---------------|
HH |x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|----o-----------|----o-------o---|----o-------------|----o-------o---|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf |--------------x-|----------------|----------------x-|----------------|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------x-----|----------------|----------x---x---|x---------------|
HH |x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|----o-----------|----o-------o---|----o-------------|----o-------o---|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf |--------------x-|----------------|----------------x-|----------------|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------x-----|----------------|---------x|--x---------------|
HH |x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x---|------x-x-X---x-xX|
S .|----o-----------|----o-------o---|----o-----|gg----o--o----o---|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-o|--oo-o----o------o|
Hf |--------------x-|----------------|----------|-x--x-------x-----|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |

...|------------5x----|
C .|------------------|------------------|x---------------|----------x-----|
HH |--X---x-x-X---x-xX|--X---x-x-x-x-----|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|
S .|gg----o--o----o---|gg----o--o----ooo-|----o-------o---|----o-----------|
Bd |--oo-o----o------o|--oo-o----o--o----|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|
Hf |-x--x-------x-----|-x--x-------------|----------------|--------------x-|
...|1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------------|----------x---x---|x---------------|----------x-----|
HH |*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|
S .|----o-------o---|----o-------------|----o-------o---|----o-----------|
Bd |o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|
Hf |----------------|----------------x-|----------------|--------------x-|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------------|----------x---x---|x---------------|----------x-----|
HH |*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|
S .|----o-------o---|----o-------------|----o-------o---|----o-----------|
Bd |o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|
Hf |----------------|----------------x-|----------------|--------------x-|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

.................................................|------------5x----|
C .|----------------|---------x|--x---------------|------------------|
HH |*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x---|------x-x-X---x-xX|--X---x-x-X---x-xX|
S .|----o-------o---|----o-----|gg----o--o----o---|gg----o--o----o---|
Bd |o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-o|--oo-o----o------o|--oo-o----o------o|
Hf |----------------|----------|-x--x-------x-----|-x--x-------x-----|
...|1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |

C .|------------------|x---------------|----------x-----|----------------|
HH |--X---x-x-x---x---|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|gg----o--o----o-o-|----o-------o---|----o-----------|----o-------o---|
Bd |--oo-o----o--o----|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf |-x--x-------------|----------------|--------------x-|----------------|
...|1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------x---x---|x---------------|----------x-----|----------------|
HH |x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|----o-------------|----o-------o---|----o-----------|----o-------o---|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf |----------------x-|----------------|--------------x-|----------------|
...|1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

C .|----------x---x---|x---------------|----------x-----|----------------|
HH |x-x-x-x-x---------|----x-x-x-x-x-x-|x-x-x-x-x-------|*-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|
S .|----o-------------|----o-------o---|----o-----------|----o-------o---|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-oo---o---|o--o----oo-o----|oo-o-o-o-oo-----|o--o----oo-o----|
Hf |----------------x-|----------------|--------------x-|----------------|
...|1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + |

.................................|-----------20x----|
C .|---------x|--x---------------|------------------|------------------|
HH |x-x-x-x---|------x-x-X---x-xX|--X---x-x-X---x-xX|--X---x-x-X-------|
S .|----o-----|gg----o--o----o---|gg----o--o----o---|gg----o--o--------|
Bd |oo-o-o-o-o|--oo-o----o------o|--oo-o----o------o|--oo-o----o-------|
Hf |----------|-x--x-------x-----|-x--x-------x-----|-x--x-------x-----|
...|1 + 2 a + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |1 + 2 a + 3 + 4 + |

[BLAIZE86]

Hey guys, modest drummer here but big Bonham fan. I just got on a web site- sessions.ledzeppelin.us. There are two outtakes from LZ 2- Whole Lotta Love drum take and Ramble On. These are different then the In Through The Out Door takes. Listen to how smooth he gets in Ramble On. Also there is an 'Out on The Tiles' instrumental which is fantastic. If you travel through the site you can listen to some live stuff. The 71' and Europe 73' will clue you in to how powerful this band was live. The opening of Immigrant Song in Japan is devastating. Check it out. Cheers.

[Ian Ballard]

Hey guys, modest drummer here but big Bonham fan. I just got on a web site- sessions.ledzeppelin.us. There are two outtakes from LZ 2- Whole Lotta Love drum take and Ramble On. These are different then the In Through The Out Door takes. Listen to how smooth he gets in Ramble On. Also there is an 'Out on The Tiles' instrumental which is fantastic. If you travel through the site you can listen to some live stuff. The 71' and Europe 73' will clue you in to how powerful this band was live. The opening of Immigrant Song in Japan is devastating. Check it out. Cheers.

I tried the url: http://sessions.ledzeppelin.us, and it doesn't work. Could you post the real link?

[ledzepjb]

John Bonham is freakin amasing.....no 1 should ever compair them selves to him cuz he is a GOD!!!!!!!

[BLAIZE86]

Ian, I apologize but I am w/o a doubt computer illiterate. The web site is mutli layered and I am having a hard time trying to find out where the exact spot on the site is. If you Google sessions.led-zeppelin.us , you should find it. It's worth your time just hearing WWL drum take along with, if you navigate, a live soundcheck of the Wanton Song where Bonhams fills are on target. Very rare. Very powerful.

[pdp 9091]

I tried the url: http://sessions.ledzeppelin.us, and it doesn't work. Could you post the real link?


its led-zeppelin.us

then on the right go to Streaming Media

[bonzolead]

I hard to believe it has been 26 yrs. since John Bonham passed away,He made drums more fun and more of a challenge at the same time when I was learning his chops,made me stay single kick instead of double-kick like everybody else in the 80's.I just can't. help but what to wonder what he would be like today.I'm sure there's a incredible jam session in heaven today.I know he'll have a heineken waiting for me when I finally get there.

R.I.P. "Bonzo"

Bonzolead

[foursticks]

Yes it was 26 years ago today, I shall honour him with a minute of silence. RIP Bonzo

[pdp 9091]

R.I.P Bonzo. His legacy will foreever live on. Its been 26 years since that tragic day.

http://trublukris.tripod.com/bonzo/bonzo-court52375.jpg

[Nabster]

Hey guys,
Had to chime on on this one.
Bonham is about the feel. You can play a back beat on the front side of 2 and 4 , dead on, or on the backside of 2 and 4. Bonham played on the backside. His recorded tracks always felt like he was about to drag the tempo, but he never did. All the grace notes in between the main notes created his feel. AND many of fills had the bass drum on the upbeat 8th note, not the downbeat 8 th note. IN other words he played on "e ah e ah e ah" NOT 1 & 2 & 3 &, if you get my drift. This made his fills sound different from everyone else. Big drums, big rooms, heavy hands, and a feel that came from passion for drums and music. He is still my fave, and the only guy I have even heard come close (besides Jason Bonham) is the cat who played on Plant's abum he did over in India. They did some Zep covers and added an India flavor and it is SMOKIN. The drummer is awesome as well and really captured the essence of Bonham on those tracks.
Nabster

[Steady Freddy]

Some of Bonhams grooves had a significant swing feel to them. Heart Breaker and Bring it on home come to mind.I think the ride in Heart Breaker was a studio effect, but the ride resembled a shuffle more than a straight sixteeth note ride.

He tended to blend straight time and shuffles together in some of his feels and played in between the two. I think this was, in part, some of his magic.

[Jon Cable]

Just an observation; on all these 'reissue' Bonham kits the 14x10 tom is only on a snare stand, but when I've watched Moby Dick [repeatedly!!] JB seems to have the tom on a clamp AND with a snare stand!! Does that mean that the reissues AREN"T 'the kit that Bonzo played??
Just a thought.
Rest In Peace John, thought about you Sunday.

[baldmann]

Just an observation; on all these 'reissue' Bonham kits the 14x10 tom is only on a snare stand, but when I've watched Moby Dick [repeatedly!!] JB seems to have the tom on a clamp AND with a snare stand!! Does that mean that the reissues AREN"T 'the kit that Bonzo played??
Just a thought.
Rest In Peace John, thought about you Sunday.

Originally he did not use the Rogers tom arm, it was an aftermarket sort of thing. Check the dvd, in the extras on disc 1, something like Danish radio. The tom is only mounted on a snare stand, but it keeps creeping fwd. He pulls it back a couple of times. He must have had the arm fitted to prevent this. Also, the ride tom on the re-issue kits is 14 x 12, which is the size Bonzo used with the natural maple set. The green sparkles and vistas had 14 x 10 toms. And of course he mounted a floor tom on his steel set!

[Goody602]

Most of what is said about Bonham focuses on his power, triplet fills and right foot, and rightfully so, they are the most recognizable parts of his playing, but some of my favorite Bonham tracks are the ones where he either leaves something out or changes something just to throw you off a little bit. Here are a few:

Out On The Tiles: At 1:45 of the song he turns the established groove inside out so that the bass drum triplets are played later in the groove. I also love the string of triplets he throws in at the end when the song is fading out, I always crank it to hear them better.

When The Levee Breaks: Right before the end guitar solo, at 5:02 Bonham leaves a single snare note out that he normally plays in other parts of the song. It's kind of like a cue that the song is almost over. Love it.

The Song Remains The Same: At 2:50, he takes the groove he's been playing and hits the snare one beat late, creating the perfect amount of tension for the guitar that follows. I also think his open hi-hat slosh sound in this tune is the best I've ever heard, well maybe right behind Rock and Roll.

No Quarter/Hey Hey What Can I Do: I just really like his crash cymbal placement in these songs, like the crashes he puts at 5:23 in NQ and 1:24 in HHWCID. So simple, but really enhances the songs.

Kashmir: The two bass drum triplets he throws in at 2:51.

Trampled Under Foot: If you listen closely to the 6 funky open hi-hat barks he starts at 5:04, the first 3 he deliberately leaves the hi-hat open longer than the last 3, and then he goes to that ride for just one measure.

The Wanton Song: At 3:33, instead of playing a straight 16th note snare fill that most people would have, he leaves one beat out, so that for a split second the band is completely silent. Just awesome.

Fool In The Rain: At 5:12 he adds a single ride bell beat to the groove which is easy to miss, but I've always enjoyed.

Anybody else agree that some of his best stuff is subtlety in the groove like above?

[NUTHA JASON]

a fellow conesseur. great post. yes and i agree.

i think his work on gallows pole is amazing. its like an insideout blue grass trainbeat. very exciting. it lifts the whole song and the single bass beneath it is phenomenal and very VERY hard to copy.

j

[infernal drummer]

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOA!!!! i know this is an old discovery for most folks, but ive seen everyone talkin about good times bad times, but ive never really listened to the drums and i just did and oh my (insert religious figure here) that is the greatest thing i have ever heard... i turned the treble all the way down adn the bass all the way up and i almost had a heart attack, right around 2 minutes till about 2:20 will make any drummer faint.. bonham truely is the best.

yeah good solid bass drum work :) love it when drummers do that exact thing.

[NUTHA JASON]

nearly everybody wants to be a drummer



and



nearly every drummer wants to be bonzo




so why should bob be any different




http://photobucket.com/albums/y117/ledzeppelinorg1/multimedia/photoarchive/tours/1975_Minneapolis/images/1975-01-17_Minn_21_Soundcheck.jpg


for more rare and wonderful photographs from the best led zep site on the web go here:

http://www.led-zeppelin.org/index.php

j

[fusssion]

that's great stuff Jason! :)

Hey guys.......can you help me out real quick......

Aside from "When The Levee Breaks" .........what grooves are UNMISTAKINGLY Bonham....WITHOUT the aid of other instruments? (drums alone) Anyone who can help me, please send me a private message, thanks.......

[NUTHA JASON]

why a PM. let's share.

'good times bad times' is very unique.
'foursticks' too
'rock 'n roll' not as much (had been done before) but everyone recognises that one.
'dyer maker'is a unique bonham reggae.
'poor tom' is viscious bonzo.

drumming alone any one of these grooves is very identifiably bonzo

j

[shuffle]

Kashmir ?


20202020

[NUTHA JASON]

naw. kashmir is identified by what JP jones does on the keys. bonzos huge groove there is very open but simple (which is why it is brilliant) but played alone it is not easy to identify as a bonzo groove.

j

[fusssion]

why a PM. let's share.

'good times bad times' is very unique.
'foursticks' too
'rock 'n roll' not as much (had been done before) but everyone recognises that one.
'dyer maker'is a unique bonham reggae.
'poor tom' is viscious bonzo.

drumming alone any one of these grooves is very identifiably bonzo

j

Thanks Jason.....sure why not! :)

[Goody602]

Sweet picture of Plant behind Bonham's kit. As far as trademark Bonham tracks other than the ones above, there are a bunch where he uses a similar bass drum figure where he plays on the 'and' to make it swing which I instantly identify with Bonzo such as

Houses of the Holy
Misty Mountain Hop
The Rover
Sick Again
Walters Walk

all classic Bonham feel.

I also think The Wanton Song, Out on the Tiles and Travelling Riverside Blues you could tell it's Bonham just from the drums

[fusssion]

For all of those who have been "conversing" about JB's kits...here is a great article from www.ludwigdrummer.com .........

It shows that JBs kit was not "just like" Carmine Appice, but that Carmine got JB the Ludwig endorsement........enjoy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bonzo's Drum Kits
Written by Nick Hunt


Kits

Bonham always used Ludwig drums and 99% of the time Paiste Cymbals. Here is a complete list of the drums he used though the years starting from his first to last kit. I've collected this information over the years by reading every article on Bonham I could find and studying photos for hours at a time.

When Zeppelin first came to America John had the following Ludwig kit:

14"x24" Bass drum with Rail Mount
9"x13" Tom
16"x16" Floor Tom
16"x18" Floor tom
Ludwig & Ludwig 20's/30's COB tube lug snare
Finish was Black Diamond Pearl
This might have been the set he used on Led Zeppelin 1.


Bonham's first Endorsement kit he got from Ludwig was in 1969. Carmine Appice got him a Ludwig Endorsement by personally ringing the Ludwig factory. The sizes were as follows:

14"x26" Bass Drum x2 with Cymbal Mount
12"x15" Tom
16"x16" Floor Tom
16"x18" Floor Tom- he added this later on
6.5"x14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
Finish was Natural Maple Thermo-gloss


When John first got this kit he used both bass drum's in rehearsal and for a couple of shows, he soon got rid of it because his fellow band members said he was drowning them out! The tom was at first placed on a Ludwig Atlas snare stand but later he added a ‘Roger's Swivo-matic’ tom mount while still keeping the snare stand there. He also used a pair of conga drums. Also he used what looked like 2 small concert toms next to his hi-hat but he only used these for a short time.

Bonham's second kit came from Ludwig in about May 1970 just before the start of the Iceland tour and he used this kit until 1973 US tour. This is the kit John toured Australia with in 1972 and is my personal favorite. The sizes were as follows:

14"x26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
10"x14" Tom
16"x16" Floor Tom
16"x18" Floor Tom
6.5"x14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum
Green Sparkle Finish


Around this time he started to use Gretsch 42 Strand Power wires on his snare drums
This kit was John's favorite recording kit and all of Zep's albums from III onwards where recorded using this kit. I have the same kit as this minus the gong and Timpani drums and mine is finished in Natural Maple.


Bonham's third Kit from Ludwig was his most famous kit, "Ludwig Amber
Vista-lite's which he got in about March-April 1973 for the start of
the 1973 US Tour. The sizes were as follows:

14"x26" Bass Drum with Rail Mount & Cymbal Mount
10"x14" Tom
16"x16" Floor Tom
16"x18" Floor Tom
6.5"x14"Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum with "Gretsch" 42 strand power
snare wires
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum
John last used this kit at Earl's Court Arena London May 23 1975
I've heard people say that he used 15"-18"-20" toms but that's not
true, all the photo's I've seen clearly show the 14"-16"-18" set up.


Bonham's forth Kit was a Ludwig Stainless Steel kit that he got
before the start of the 1977 US Tour sizes were as follows:

14"x26" Bass Drum with double tom mount
12"x15" Tom
16"x16" Floor Tom
16"x18" Floor Tom
6.5"x14" Chrome Supra-Phonic Snare Drum with Gretsch 42 strand power
snare wires
29" Ludwig Machine Timpani Drum
30" Ludwig Universal Timpani Drum

This kit was used until Led Zeppelin's last ever performance, Monday
July 7 1980 Berlin Germany. An interesting feature about this kit was that it had Mach Lugs (long lugs) on the 12"x15" tom. Also I heard he used 18"& 20" floor toms but the floor toms were the same depth so they must have been 16" & 18".


Hardware

On Bonham's Black Diamond Pearl Kit and his Natural Maple kit he used
Rogers Swivo-matic cymbal stands, a Rogers Swivo-matic hi-hat stand and
Ludwig Atlas snare stands.

Bonham's Green Sparkle and Amber Vista-lite kits used Ludwig's first
generation Atlas hardware the ones with the flat steel legs and a Rogers
Swivo-matic Hi-hat stand.

His Stainless Steel kit used Ludwig’s second-generation Atlas hardware the
ones with the tube legs and a Rogers Swivo-matic Hi-hat stand.

John used a Ludwig Speed King Pedal on all his kits. He also used a Ludwig Ching Ring for his solo on Moby Dick.

I read that John used Ludwig 2A sticks but I don't know if this is true or not.

Also, on tour, a spare pre-tuned Bass drum and snare drum were kept close at hand just in case they broke!


Drumheads

Bonham used a variety of drumheads through out the years including Remo Black Dots, Remo Coated Ambassadors and Ludwig Weather Master heads.


Cymbals

Here's his cymbal list in the order he got them:

15" Sound-Edge Hi-hats 2 Pair
18" Giant Beat
20" Giant Beat
24" Giant Beat
15" Sound-Edge Hi-hats
18" Giant Beat
20" Giant Beat
24" Giant Beat
18" Giant Beat x2
20" Giant Beat
16" 2oo2 Medium
18" Giant Beat
20" Giant Beat
24" Giant Beat
20" 602 Medium Ride
38" Gong
15" 2oo2 Sound-Edge Hi-hats
15" 602 Sound-edge Hi-hats
16" 2oo2 Medium
18" 2oo2 Medium
18" 2oo2 Medium Ride
20" 602 Medium Ride
24" 2oo2 Ride
15" 2oo2 Sound-edge Hi-hats
18" 2oo2 Crash
18" 2oo2 Medium
20" 2oo2 Ride
24" 2oo2 Ride
1 Cymbal Bag


Where are they now?

Well, his Black Diamond Pearl Kit I have no idea where its gone.

Paul Thompson of Roxy Music has his Natural Maple Kit complete with 2 Bass
Drums.

The Green Sparkle Kit Now sits in the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame in
Cleveland.

The spare Bass drum is at Jimmy Page's Sol Studio.

Terry Bozzio used the 14"x26" green sparkle Bass drum on a Jeff Beck Album. Jason Bonham also used this bass drum on Jimmy Page's Outrider album. Apparently John gave Jimmy this bass drum.

Amber Vista-lite I've heard all sorts of stories but nothing concrete.

His Stainless steel kit was auctioned on the net this year minus one floor tom and a snare drum.


Long live Bonham!

[foursticks]

why a PM. let's share.

'good times bad times' is very unique.
'foursticks' too
'rock 'n roll' not as much (had been done before) but everyone recognises that one.
'dyer maker'is a unique bonham reggae.
'poor tom' is viscious bonzo.

drumming alone any one of these grooves is very identifiably bonzo

j

How about 'The Crunge'?

[sir_willy]

How about 'The Crunge'?

Seriously, its my favorite by Bonzo, and one of my favorties overall.

[spoonracings2k]

the green sparkle kit isnt at the rock and roll hall of fame in cleveland. i was just there, the only led zeppelin artifacts they have are JPJ's bass he used at knebworth 1979 and one of his ketboards..... and i think someone's outfit

[-Ryco]

I LOVE JB! When I first heard his playing I didn't like it at all. I thought he was a club footed banger. It took me awhile to understand his style of playing. But hey, I'm slow - I thought Hendrix was just noise 'til his 2nd album came out! Bonham was so forceful and simple - every stroke counted. Very assesrtive!I think his playing had a devilish sense of humor to it that came with his power and confidence.

Anyway. can anyone explain the drum intro to Rock and Roll? How do you count it or what is the feel to it? Is it a tape edit? I play just the intro over and over (iPod) and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. I love it! I've listened to it ever since Zoso came out and have played it countless times. I've never known a drummer to nail it perfectly so it must be a real bear. Can any of you?

ps> if I didn't love bass so much I'd be a drummer! You guys RULE! peaces

[spoonracings2k]

it goes from 7/8 to 4/4 to 2/4..... he cranks it for the 2/4 leading the rest of the band in, i suppose thats their cue. its odd and im sure he didnt intentionally make it that way, seeing as he quit reading music at an early age. from what ive been told he kinda ripped that intro from a james brown song or something.... im not exactly sure if it was james brown, but i am sure its funk based

[Supersteve]

Just an observation; on all these 'reissue' Bonham kits the 14x10 tom is only on a snare stand, but when I've watched Moby Dick [repeatedly!!] JB seems to have the tom on a clamp AND with a snare stand!! Does that mean that the reissues AREN"T 'the kit that Bonzo played??
Just a thought.
Rest In Peace John, thought about you Sunday.

From what I have read farther down on this page the answer would be no. The kits are not the same. as John played.

[Goody602]

it goes from 7/8 to 4/4 to 2/4..... he cranks it for the 2/4 leading the rest of the band in, i suppose thats their cue. its odd and im sure he didnt intentionally make it that way, seeing as he quit reading music at an early age. from what ive been told he kinda ripped that intro from a james brown song or something.... im not exactly sure if it was james brown, but i am sure its funk based

It's a borrowed lick from Little Richard's 'Keep a Knockin'"

[spoonracings2k]

my bad. but at least i was in the ball park

[LiveGoat]

From what I have read farther down on this page the answer would be no. The kits are not the same. as John played.

The spurs on the reissue kit are different along with not being a three-ply. I've seen photos from recording sessins where he just uses a snare stand to hold the rack tom but he has used both. I don't know for sure if he ever used just a swivo with the natural kit. I haven't seen enough photos. One thing I've been curious about, though. What was the actual depth of the kicks (the kit came with 2) on his natural mapel kit? They seem to look deeper than 14 inches in the pics I've seen. For that matter, did he own more than one?

---LG

[LiveGoat]

Oops, just read the list of Bonzo's kit posted above. Still, the kick look a little longer to me for some reason.

---LG

[NUTHA JASON]

great interview with plant in the post zep years. he pays a great tribute to bonzo that put a good lump in my throat.

here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc2G78ur7vE

j

[cygnify]

Love Bonham! Lot's of great information in this thread.

One classic Bonham groove is on "Heart Breaker" It's a pretty simple groove, but listening closely reveals lots of little ghost notes and it just makes the whole thunderous groove swing a bit. Classic Bonzo!

I was listening to a bootleg recording of Zeppelin recently from Cleveland in 1977. Bonham's solo had an "Out on the Tiles" intro and just was awesome. He did some funky sound manipulation effects on his tympani, all along with his flowing groove. Very cool!

[NUTHA JASON]

there are many zep bootleg and studio out-take sites but non seem to have a buy it now type link. does anyone know how to buy those CDs? does anyone have anything they wish to copy and sell or swap. i have a cd of studio out takes i got from a drummer a few years backBUT I WANT MORE!
j

[mikei]

I have the studio drum tracks from ITTOD and it is amazing.

His kick drum is like an instument by itself.

It booms and sustains for so long. It sounds like the cars that blast the bass and the whole room shakes. Just incredible.

I can't stop laughing when I hear him yelling and screaming. Especially during "All of My Love". He is going off with his moans and groans!

[Auger]

naw. kashmir is identified by what JP jones does on the keys. bonzos huge groove there is very open but simple (which is why it is brilliant) but played alone it is not easy to identify as a bonzo groove.


You know, that's a good point, J, but I half disagree with you. I think that the beat itself, like if you were to write it out, doesn't really have anything especially identify-ing it to John Bohnam.

*but* the way he played it is so distinctively him that I think that makes the recording one of his most identifiable beats. Specifically it's his treatment of doubles on the bass drum in that song -the slow ones in the main beat. One of the things that makes his sound so massive is how he'd treat these doubles dynamically. He'd play them slightly un-evenly, putting a subtle accent on the first beat of the double. That, to me, is one of Bohnam's most distinctive and identifiable/ signature sounds. It's such a neat/brilliant trick -you don't even have to be on a drumset to hear the effect. Just tap on whatever is nearby -if no one will mind. Tap the beat for kashmir (just the bass and snare part) playing with your hands on two different surfaces. First, play bass drum part with the doubles exactly even. Next, try doing it with a slight accent on the first beat of the double and notice the difference ...even if you're just tapping on your desk.

[NUTHA JASON]

i agree! also that snare shot in the main beat is as far back as you can lay it without actually sounding out. this is the famous bonham sex groove.

j

[Goody602]

NUTHA JASON there are many zep bootleg and studio out-take sites but non seem to have a buy it now type link. does anyone know how to buy those CDs? does anyone have anything they wish to copy and sell or swap. i have a cd of studio out takes i got from a drummer a few years backBUT I WANT MORE!

I am with you Nutha I am always looking for Zeppelin bootlegs, especially from '68-'72. But I always find them difficult to come by, especially with decent sound quality.

I do have a few that are pretty good though that I was able to download when I was in college in we had this massive network of illegal filesharing going before it was shut down.

The best is probably from a Fillmore West show on either 4/24 or 4/27/69, and it's one of the more circulated recordings so maybe you already have it. It has a lot of what they played in their early sets: As Long As I Have You, You Shook Me, I Can't Quit You Baby, Pat's Delight, Sittin' and Thinkin', Dazed and Confused (parts of it), How Many More Times, Lemon Song/Killing Floor, Train Kept a Rollin', Communication Breakdown.

I also have some random songs from shows from different years. Mostly from '73, '75, and '80. I can't remember all of the exact tunes but I think they are mostly versions of Kashmir, Achilles Last Stand, and No Quarter, put I know there are more as well.

If you're interested in any of this stuff maybe you could trade me something I don't already have or we could work something else out.

[johnhavart]

I've just listened to a fantastic version of "Kashmir" mixed with oriental music but I don't which
band released it

Any idea ?

[johnhavart]

Has anybody have a MP3 version of "How many more times" of Led Zeppelin I ?

If so let me know

Thanks in avance

John

[pdp 9091]

Has anybody have a MP3 version of "How many more times" of Led Zeppelin I ?

If so let me know

Thanks in avance

John


here ya go...just right click the link and press save target as

[johnhavart]

here ya go...just right click the link and press save target as

Many many thanks pdp 9091

John

[ndrummerc]

anyone else here ever heard "Pat's Delight", the pre "Moby Dick" solo? I downloaded 2 boots of it and its incredible. Shows a bigger Buddy Rich influence than "Moby Dick"

[Goody602]

anyone else here ever heard "Pat's Delight", the pre "Moby Dick" solo? I downloaded 2 boots of it and its incredible. Shows a bigger Buddy Rich influence than "Moby Dick"

Yeah I have a few versions of it. One is a bootleg from one of the first shows they ever played in the U.S. at Gonzaga, 12/68. He does the Max Roach "The drum also waltzes" bit like he does in the early "Moby Dick" performances but you're right he does a lot of Buddy Rich inspired single stroke snare rolls and flying fills in "Pat's Delight," and he goes absolutely nuts with the bass drum triplets. You can tell, at 20 years old he's cocky as hell and loves showing that right foot off.

[johnhavart]

anyone else here ever heard "Pat's Delight", the pre "Moby Dick" solo? I downloaded 2 boots of it and its incredible. Shows a bigger Buddy Rich influence than "Moby Dick"

Where did you download those boots ?

Thanks

[NUTHA JASON]

Any chance of making those boots available to us here?

j

ps: please!!!!


pps: 5:47 on how many more times. now if their ever was a drum beat that should be called a train beat it is this little figure. lovely! and how about bonzo's brand of jazz at the start of the song? decades after his death he still slays me.

[CooManChu]

Hi - I have a question for anyone who is familiar with any of the "Zeppelin: Off the Record" series books that came out in the 90s. These are the ones that have all the Zeppelin parts transcribed for each of the first five albums. There was also one for Presence and maybe In Through the Out Door and Coda, but I'm not sure. There's also a really nice two volume set of the "Remastered" stuff as well.

I find these pretty accurate and a good place to start when working on reproducing a particular tune and/or studying it. Using them and a decent amount of listening and correcting, I think a person can come up with a very high quality transcription that is very accurate in representing the playing on the album. They're also good for when you want to get together and play with other musicicians who might not have gone into the tunes on their own to pull out all the goods.

Anyway, what I was wondering was would anyone happen to know if the people that did the transcribing for this series had access to the pre-mixed masters. I'm just curious because sometimes these transcriptions have things in them that seem impossible to hear when all the parts are mixed and the levels are set for the final mix on the album (for instance, the bass drum part in the up-tempo section of Lemon Song). Plus in some of the tunes, the guitar parts are broken down into guitar-1, 2, 3, etc. and it seems like that kind of breakdown would be easier if you had the pre-mixed master at your disposal.

Thanks for any info.

[DrumMasterDave]

Ive never even heard of that, But im sure it would be cool to get your hands on. Im a bit new to this board, and when i saw a John Bonham thread, and saw how many posts, i was impressed! Thats alot of replies guys! Sweet.

[michael drums]

Hey Y'all,

Just wanted to post here in the Bohnam thread. "Good Times, Bad Times" I NEVER get tired of that bass foot! Long Live Bonzo!! Play On! ;-)

[rendezvous_drummer]

What's a ching wing?

[NUTHA JASON]

bonzos version
http://store.drumbum.com/media/hi-hat-tambourine.jpg

an alternative
http://www.keplingerdrums.com/images/chingring1-lg.jpg

[murphinelli]

That alternative doesn't look like it would give you the same "ching" out of the tamborine cymbals. It looks like it would be stifled. Does it sound the same?

[NUTHA JASON]

no idea. probably sizzles as well. i can imagine that it jumps around as the hat is played.
love to try it.

j

[murphinelli]

I'd love to try one of them also. Since I've been hanging out in jazz land, I thought I'd get back to my roots a little. I was thinking of this while I was thinking of the jazz discussion and innovation...There is a desire to see/listen to musicians innovate across their entire career. Most rock bands change over the years. Usually for bad. They become over produced, etc. Bands like U2, Rush, Yes, Van Halen...The list goes on. Now what about Led Zeppelin? I remember when In Through The Out Doors came out. I thought it was very different from the previous albums. It too was transitioning into overproduction land. There are some great songs on that album, but the production was clearly beyond the previous. Do you agree? May John Bonham RIP. I still remember wearing my home made REMEMBER BONZO shirt to high school after he passed...But, if Bonzo was still alive and Zeppelin continued playing for 5-10 years or even until today... What do you think they would sound like? How do you think Bonzo would change over the years? Just pondering...Forgive me if this question has already been addressed on this thread also...

[bonzolead]

I'd love to try one of them also. Since I've been hanging out in jazz land, I thought I'd get back to my roots a little. I was thinking of this while I was thinking of the jazz discussion and innovation...There is a desire to see/listen to musicians innovate across their entire career. Most rock bands change over the years. Usually for bad. They become over produced, etc. Bands like U2, Rush, Yes, Van Halen...The list goes on. Now what about Led Zeppelin? I remember when In Through The Out Doors came out. I thought it was very different from the previous albums. It too was transitioning into overproduction land. There are some great songs on that album, but the production was clearly beyond the previous. Do you agree? May John Bonham RIP. I still remember wearing my home made REMEMBER BONZO shirt to high school after he passed...But, if Bonzo was still alive and Zeppelin continued playing for 5-10 years or even until today... What do you think they would sound like? How do you think Bonzo would change over the years? Just pondering...Forgive me if this question has already been addressed on this thread also...John Paul Jones produced and wrote most of "in through the out door" Zeppelin was trying too change their style but still keep there blues roots at that time Disco was popular and nobody really knew which way rock & roll was going.sadly Bonham was addicted to heroin and the doctors put him on methadone too help kick the habit but you are not supposed to drink any Alcohol with that medication I think if he wasn't. on that medication his body could've broke down the alcohol better and he may still be alive today,when something tragic like that happens we always say "what If" it's sad though because Bonham in my opinion kept getting better on the kit."fool in the rain" was one of his last songs he recorded and that drum beat still sends chills up my spine when I hear it.Bonham was the main reason I stayed Single Bass instead of Double Bass like all the "Big 80s" drummers did back then,Bonham proved you don't. need a 11 piece kit with 20 cymbals too be a great drummer.to all you young,up & coming drummers it's not what you got but how you play.

"A good drummer can make any drum sound good"-John Bonham

need i say more.


Keep swatting,
Bonzolead

[NUTHA JASON]

i own two bonham biographys and have read several zep ones plus numerous articles and interviews and there is no mention of heroine. bonzo was a heavy drinker and was suffering from depression due to touring stress and the possible break up of the band. he put away far more vodka and other drinks the night of his death than any one man should. certainly enough to put an average man in a coma. occasionally this bonham on drugs thing comes up but i have never read it in any official writing.

i do agree strongly with the rest of your post tho.

j

[murphinelli]

Thanks for the info on Bonzo's drugs & alcohol. Not interested. I'm sad about it. Just as I am sad about Hendrix and Jaco...

Oh, that brings up an interesting super group question...and may possibly be going on in Heaven right now. Bonzo, Jaco, and Hendrix & maybe Jeff Buckley. Now there's an interesting supergroup who all have something in common. They all died too soon. And they all were some of the most influential and talented at what they do...Sad how that happens.

Back to my original question. Zeppelin was sliding down the slippery slope of overproduction. Would they have slid all the way? What would they sound like today?
Audioslave?...

[bonzolead]

i own two bonham biographys and have read several zep ones plus numerous articles and interviews and there is no mention of heroine. bonzo was a heavy drinker and was suffering from depression due to touring stress and the possible break up of the band. he put away far more vodka and other drinks the night of his death than any one man should. certainly enough to put an average man in a coma. occasionally this bonham on drugs thing comes up but i have never read it in any official writing.

i do agree strongly with the rest of your post tho.

jIt's just a fact of life Bonham is and always will be my favorite drummer but he was on methedone when he died,you don't give methedone to somebody trying to give up cigarattes both Bonham and Jimmy Page had a problem with Heroin,it's a touchy subject that's why you don't. hear of it.who ever would of thought James Taylor was a heroin addict once upon a time but he was it was the 70's after all.I don't. mean to offend anybody.
I'm sorry if I did.I just wish Bonham was still alive, the only band(Zeppelin) I never saw that I wish had the chance..

Didn't. mean to strike a nerve.please forgive me.

Bonzolead

[KzSgDrummer]

..But, if Bonzo was still alive and Zeppelin continued playing for 5-10 years or even until today... What do you think they would sound like? How do you think Bonzo would change over the years? Just pondering...Forgive me if this question has already been addressed on this thread also...

Just as In Through The Out Door showed signs of moving in an over-produced direction, I also think Bonzo was showing signs of complacency. Although he still could play one heck of a groove, his beats and fills were much more simple and straight-forward, lacking that creative fire from earlier on. This could be chalked up to a number of things, maturation being the most likely, but overall for Led Zep it definitely went hand-in-hand with the band moving towards a more slick production style.

If Bonzo stayed alive and Led Zep continued, I think they probably would have absorbed some new wave influences (mostly in the form of using the synth) just to sound "contemporary" for the early 80s, but by then would also start to absorb the sound of Van Halen, although it would probably be a more adult contemporary version of those guys. But really, could you imagine Bonham in the hyper-produced reverb-and-gated-snare 80s?? Oh boy, it's probably a good thing he went when he did (as horrible to say as that might be..) and I really don't want to imagine what they'd be doing if they were still kicking it today.

A current example of this phenomenon of aging and going for a more slick sound is Eric Clapton. I've heard and seen most of what he's done the last 5-10 years, and while he's still sounding great and the band is top notch, the overall sound is just too slick. Now I love Steve Gadd (he's the Sg in my username) but it sounds like most of the time his creative engine is running at about half capacity nowadays (but to his credit his passion and playing for the music engine is always at 100%). Again you could chalk Clapton, Gadd, Preston, ect.'s more streamlined sound up to maturation, but overall it feels a bit lifeless, like if you're walking through an old city where all the grime and decay and signs of day-to-day life have been cleaned up to the point that you could be in a Disney theme park.

So maybe Led Zep would be sounding something like Clapton, if not in actual notes or grooves, but in spirit, however wrinkle-free that may be.

[NUTHA JASON]

i disagree somewhat with all of this. although speculation in itself is flawed.

led zep were trend setters and experimentalists. they had full creative license in the studio. bonham himself refused to tape up his drums or muffle his bassdrum, when everyone else was. i think they would have released maybe another album similar to the last one and then they might have recorded something completely different and groundbreaking, inventing a whole new genre and probably changing the course of pop history. this after a hiatus in rehab and allowing the punk revolution to become commercial and then they would have risen like a leviathon to release a string of new albums. sure bonham would not have a vast crop of new chops as his drinking and the touring did not allow for much self practice in the late eighties but then when led zep pulled a beatles on the world and quit touring in 1991 the band concentrated on producing ever more interesting material marrying unrelated genres with great tho sometimes totally esoteric lyrics. in 1999 the band embarked on a truly final world tour ending up at yankee stadium on new years eve for the final concert. here they promoted their latest triple album and bonham played a totally new drum solo he had been working on in secret for the past decade. titled 'ahab' it was such a masterpiece of rock drumming that it left the last tumultuous half hour of the concert smacking slightly of mediocrity. the band announced in early 2001 that they were taking a break and there followed 3 years were the group did not even cross paths. bonham launched a new brand of ludwig and went on a clinic tour that saw a reformed tho aging rocker teatotalling and unafraid of flying. the band would regroup every two or so year from then on to record an album...

if only it were all true.

j

[murphinelli]

Here's an interesting ironic trivia question ;-)

Who wrote these lyrics?

You need coolin', baby, I'm not foolin',
I'm gonna send you back to schoolin',
Way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love, X2

*Wanna Whole Lotta Love? X4

You've been learnin', baby, I bean learnin',
All them good times, baby, baby, I've been yearnin',
Way, way down inside honey, you need it,
I'm gonna give you my love X2

* Chorus

You've been coolin', baby, I've been droolin',
All the good times I've been misusin',
Way, way down inside, I'm gonna give you my love,
I'm gonna give you every inch of my love,
Gonna give you my love.
Yeah! All right! Let's go!

* Chorus

Way down inside, woman, You need love.
Shake for me, girl, I wanna be your backdoor man.
Hey, oh, hey, oh, Oh, oh, oh, Keep a-coolin', baby,
Keep a-coolin', baby.

[KzSgDrummer]

i disagree somewhat with all of this. although speculation in itself is flawed.

led zep were trend setters and experimentalists. they had full creative license in the studio. bonham himself refused to tape up his drums or muffle his bassdrum, when everyone else was. i think they would have released maybe another album similar to the last one and then they might have recorded something completely different and groundbreaking, inventing a whole new genre and probably changing the course of pop history. this after a hiatus in rehab and allowing the punk revolution to become commercial and then they would have risen like a leviathon to release a string of new albums. sure bonham would not have a vast crop of new chops as his drinking and the touring did not allow for much self practice in the late eighties but then when led zep pulled a beatles on the world and quit touring in 1991 the band concentrated on producing ever more interesting material marrying unrelated genres with great tho sometimes totally esoteric lyrics. in 1999 the band embarked on a truly final world tour ending up at yankee stadium on new years eve for the final concert. here they promoted their latest triple album and bonham played a totally new drum solo he had been working on in secret for the past decade. titled 'ahab' it was such a masterpiece of rock drumming that it left the last tumultuous half hour of the concert smacking slightly of mediocrity. the band announced in early 2001 that they were taking a break and there followed 3 years were the group did not even cross paths. bonham launched a new brand of ludwig and went on a clinic tour that saw a reformed tho aging rocker teatotalling and unafraid of flying. the band would regroup every two or so year from then on to record an album...

if only it were all true.

j


Haha I like your speculative history more than mine.. time to put it in the record books!

[murphinelli]

A little hint. I'm sure Nutha and plenty of other fans here know the answer. Here's a photo from a rather serious proceeding...The guy on the left made quite a few $$$$$.
Innovation took a back seat in some cases for Zeppelin. Who's the guy?

[NUTHA JASON]

Willie Dixon from your own signature. he started a blues artists charity or something.

j

[murphinelli]

Willie Dixon from your own signature. he started a blues artists charity or something.

j

Bingo. And the ironic part is the quote which was not directed at Zeppelin, but more of an answer to what he thought about blues guitar players.

[bonzolead]

Thanks for the info on Bonzo's drugs & alcohol. Not interested. I'm sad about it. Just as I am sad about Hendrix and Jaco...

Oh, that brings up an interesting super group question...and may possibly be going on in Heaven right now. Bonzo, Jaco, and Hendrix & maybe Jeff Buckley. Now there's an interesting supergroup who all have something in common. They all died too soon. And they all were some of the most influential and talented at what they do...Sad how that happens.

Back to my original question. Zeppelin was sliding down the slippery slope of overproduction. Would they have slid all the way? What would they sound like today?
Audioslave?...
who's jaco? jaco marx LOL and I think Zeppelin would have kept creating great albums as long as Bonzo was alive,has anyone heard page & plant,i'm a zeppelin fan and that stuff doesn't. come close,but then again i guess we will never know. boo-hoo,boo-hoo,hoo,hoo

Bonzolead

[murphinelli]

who's jaco?

Jaco Pastorius. Bass player for Weather Report that died way too early. One of the most influential Bass players ever. If there is a Bass player forum there is a Jaco page that has fans as strong as Bonzo fans here.

[bonzolead]

Jaco Pastorius. Bass player for Weather Report that died way too early. One of the most influential Bass players ever. If there is a Bass player forum there is a Jaco page that has fans as strong as Bonzo fans here.
whoa,I love Weather Report I was not knowing yes you're right incredible bass player,wasn't. that Alex Acuza first Band?i'm more of a rock player instead of jazz so you will have to excuse me a keyboardest I know turn me on to them.can't. tell any names of the tunes but very cool stuff.since we were chatting about rock & roll heaven how about this 3 piece:John Bonham-Drums,John Entwistle-Bass,Jimi Hendrix-Guitar.

Just a thought,

Bonzolead

[murphinelli]

That would be a cool trio. They'd probably be playing jazz today...Many of the old time rock drummers slide on into jazz. I think they always liked it, but were making more money in the rock arena. Bruford, Charlie Watts, Steve Smith, Simon Phillips, Bonzo? Well Stanton Moore is sort of a Bonzoish jazz dude 'eh?

Well Bonzo has a special place in my heart. I was a big fan ever since I was a kid. Used to have all my walls covered in zeppelin posters. I had a lifesize one of Robert Plant! Used to be in the Led Zeppelin fan club. This is before the Internet & computers. I used to have Zeppelin pen pals that I would write letters to (imagine that) in Australia and England. All girls of course.

[rendezvous_drummer]

gonnnaa get me on of those ching wings!!

[Mook]

It's called a Ching Ring by the way.

[NUTHA JASON]

yeah ching wings sound like something you can buy at a chinese take away.

j

[Goody602]

I got a ching-ring about a year ago when buying a bunch of add-ons for my kit. It's not a genuine ching-ring but it's the same instrument, essentially. The thing about it is, I really have to STOMP on the hi-hat to get a good jingle sound out of it, and I always keep my hi-hats open by at least 1 1/2 inches. To get the sound and volume Bonham gets on any live 'Moby Dick' solo gets tiring in about 2 minutes. Maybe his had more jingles on it or was manufactured a lot better, but regardless, it's not nearly as easy as I thought to get that consistent jingle sound for an extended period of time.

[murphinelli]

I got a ching-ring about a year ago when buying a bunch of add-ons for my kit. It's not a genuine ching-ring but it's the same instrument, essentially. The thing about it is, I really have to STOMP on the hi-hat to get a good jingle sound out of it, and I always keep my hi-hats open by at least 1 1/2 inches. To get the sound and volume Bonham gets on any live 'Moby Dick' solo gets tiring in about 2 minutes. Maybe his had more jingles on it or was manufactured a lot better, but regardless, it's not nearly as easy as I thought to get that consistent jingle sound for an extended period of time.

That was my original question on this ching-a-ling-a-ding. Just by looking at it (the pictures that Nutha posted)...The authentic hi-hat tamborine design looks like it will "ching" freely...whereas the ching-ding-thing looks like the poor mans version of the same...By the way it is designed to sit on the hit hat, it is stifled. And you've confirmed it for me...Thanks for the info.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Jaco Pastorius. Bass player for Weather Report that died way too early. One of the most influential Bass players ever. If there is a Bass player forum there is a Jaco page that has fans as strong as Bonzo fans here.

'Continuum' and 'Portrait of Tracy' still send shivers down my spine literally every time I hear them. One day I will take up the bass.

[Goody602]

That was my original question on this ching-a-ling-a-ding. Just by looking at it (the pictures that Nutha posted)...The authentic hi-hat tamborine design looks like it will "ching" freely...whereas the ching-ding-thing looks like the poor mans version of the same...By the way it is designed to sit on the hit hat, it is stifled. And you've confirmed it for me...Thanks for the info.


Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.

[murphinelli]

Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.


Ahh. Misunderstood your first post. Well in the end, Bonham had a mic on his, correct? So, foot stomping was not necessary. Anyways, I'm gonna get one of the Bonham looking original ones myself at some point soon.

Rock on bro!

[themac5150]

Mine looks almost exactly like the first, smaller picture that Nutha put up that says "Bonzo's version." I'ts definitely not designed to sit right on the hi-hat. What I meant is that if you look at pictures of Bonham's it looks like it has more jingles than the modern version. Still though, it's not as easy to get a great sound out of it as I originally thought, you really have to stomp on it to hear it.

Do you put yours on just like the picture? I put mine on upside down in comparison to the pic, and it works great. Also, do you have the brass or nickel version, I read somewhere that the nickel version is more subdued than the brass. If you install it like I do and you have the brass, I don't know what to say, maybe it sounds better down range than it does sitting next to it....

[Goody602]

Do you put yours on just like the picture? I put mine on upside down in comparison to the pic, and it works great. Also, do you have the brass or nickel version, I read somewhere that the nickel version is more subdued than the brass. If you install it like I do and you have the brass, I don't know what to say, maybe it sounds better down range than it does sitting next to it....

Yeah, I think I have the nickel one, and I think I tried it upside down too and didn't notice too much of a difference. But now that you mention it I'm gonna try it again. Thanks for the tip.

[spoonracings2k]

zep's biggest hits in their earliest years were rips/re-workings of old songs. whole lotta love..... willie dixon. dazed and confused was also a re-worked song from page's yardbird days, i think the song was originally titled i'm confused" or something like that. he also had his whole violin bow routine in those days as well. as for bonzo's drug use..... according to richard cole's biography (zeppelin tour manager) EVERYONE in the band at least dabbled in cocaine..... but page was the only one who used heroin. bonzo's use was erratic, but steady, but as we all know alcohol was his main problem.

[michael drums]

zep's biggest hits in their earliest years were rips/re-workings of old songs. whole lotta love..... willie dixon. dazed and confused was also a re-worked song from page's yardbird days, i think the song was originally titled i'm confused" or something like that. he also had his whole violin bow routine in those days as well. as for bonzo's drug use..... according to richard cole's biography (zeppelin tour manager) EVERYONE in the band at least dabbled in cocaine..... but page was the only one who used heroin. bonzo's use was erratic, but steady, but as we all know alcohol was his main problem.

Hello spoon. Hey, wouldn't it be better to add facts about the "musical" influence of Bonzo, rather than what "substances" were influencing him? His "body of work" is what's important. Not what was working on his body. Thanks....Play On!

[rendezvous_drummer]

It's called a Ching Ring by the way.
Right....i stand corrected.

[pdp 9091]

i own two bonham biographys and have read several zep ones plus numerous articles and interviews and there is no mention of heroine.

j


i read Stairway to Heaven (which was an awesome zep bio by the way) and richard cole - zeppelin tour manager and author of the book- never said bonzo was into herion. The herion was mostly himself (cole), page and plant. as a matter of fact they never even injected it....they snorted it. Bonzo was the big drinker. I mean come on. 40 somethin shots of vodka within a matter of hours. Hes not invincible. its sad that he passed away so early. U could only imagine ''what if"

[Beyer]

John Bonham is definitely one of the greatest there ever was and he should be recognized for his songs pretty much like the ones that previous replies have listed: Moby Dick, When the Levee Breaks...and so on. Absolutely untouchable when it comes to speed and style.

[Synthetik]

There are a number of educational DVD's out there that have drummers explaining other pro-drummers licks.

I'd like to see one made for Bonzo's playing.

[johnhavart]

BTW about Bonzo's playing on Bad times good times, do you know if :

_when he played the triplets on bass drum, did he keep eights notes steady on his hit-hat ? stead
_a live version exists ?

[Goody602]

Yeah he's pedaling 8ths on his hi-hat and also playing 8ths on a cowbell as the first note of the triplet with the stuttering bass drum notes in between.

There is no official live release of 'Good Times Bad Times.' From the bootleg sites that I've looked at, it does appear that they played if a very few times live in early '69 before they had any Zep II material to play, but those boots are extremely rare and probably not very good sound quality.

I know...I'd kill to hear a live version of Good Times from a young Zeppelin too. Bonzo would be out of his mind in that performance.

[johnhavart]

Yeah he's pedaling 8ths on his hi-hat and also playing 8ths on a cowbell as the first note of the triplet with the stuttering bass drum notes in between.

There is no official live release of 'Good Times Bad Times.' From the bootleg sites that I've looked at, it does appear that they played if a very few times live in early '69 before they had any Zep II material to play, but those boots are extremely rare and probably not very good sound quality.



Many thanks for your answer.

about Hi-hat, that's well what I hear !

I am very curious how Bonzo used to play it live in the specific circumstances you mentionned.

[spoonracings2k]

i read that they didnt really enjoy playing good times bad times so yeah, it would probably be very hard to find a bootleg, much less one of decent quality. if anyone does, post it

[johnhavart]

i read that they didnt really enjoy playing good times bad times so yeah, it would probably be very hard to find a bootleg, much less one of decent quality. if anyone does, post it

Yes it would be great to find a live version !
PS: It took me a long time to be able to to play the triplets part with the bass drum but now I have to add the hit hat...It's true that it generates some "colours" with the cow bell.

[Synthetik]

I just placed an order for Mike Portnoy's tribute to Bonzo called "Hammer of the Gods" on DVD.

He plays a (prototype) amber acrylic tama mirage kit.
http://www.synthetictubs.com/mid_0-asppg_Im951546753.jpg

[CooManChu]

Yes it would be great to find a live version !
PS: It took me a long time to be able to to play the triplets part with the bass drum but now I have to add the hit hat...It's true that it generates some "colours" with the cow bell.

According to Dr. MustardPie on the Presence site, there are two known live recordings of Good Times Bad Times - both audience sourced:

Good Times Bad Times
AUD 1970.09.04 Inglewood, LA Forum - In Communication Breakdown medley. Best source.
AUD 1971.09.23 Tokyo, Budokan Hall - In Whole Lotta Love medley.

I have the LA forum concert. This live version's tempo is a good measure brighter than on the original album and I think because of that and the fact that all that more embellished playing he does in the studio probably doesn't even come off in an arena, he opts for more streamlined, driving playing.

Check out some of the Zep sites (Presence Server, Traders Den) and you should be able to download the torrent. Look for the Zep title "On Blueberry Hill". That's a widely used name for the show since they played "On Blueberry Hill" that day. You'll probably find alot of other stuff that you'll want too. It's addicting. :)

If that's a hassle, I could burn a CD of the show and snail mail it to you (if you don't mind PayPal-ing me for the postage and disc(s) - not to be cheap, but it adds up).

I'm working on playing the studio version too - nowhere near up to tempo yet, but it's progressing. I took the tabs that were out there on the net and added the little things I hear on the recording and I think I have a pretty close paper representation of what he's playing on the track. So far, I've only done the intro and the first verse, though.

The main thing I added in my transcription was his bell pattern variations. He's not just pinging 8ths on the bell - he plays a much more alive, breathing bell. Just because I like Art so much, I see Bonham's verse groove almost like an Art Blakey type thing with some additional bass drum action. In my opinion, it's also not very far at all from Bernard Purdie's 4 bar drum break in Aretha Franklin's "Rock Steady" if you break it down. I practice the two together (Good Times verse groove and Rock Steady drum break) and sometimes I get tongue tied and go into a piece of one while playing the other just because they feel so closely related to me - like cousins or something.

Coo

[NUTHA JASON]

GOOD TIMES BAD TIMES PRIMER.

i've heard some versions of this...often missing various elements. the hihat must be constant 8ths but the cowbell has 16ths in the beats leading up to the tom figure in each measure. if you listen to the second attachment i lowered the other instruments in the mix to make the C-bell stand out and i slowed it right down in the end to show how the bell weaves in and out with the bass drum just before the hitom and lowtom figure.
the first attachment is a little sketchy without the bass and guitar to give it feeling but i got those triplets in there mostly right. in this version the cowbell 16ths are over powered by the bassdrum unfortunately but i swear they are there...hence the second version.

(please forgive the recording it was direct from roland to laptop)

[johnhavart]

Thanks Nutha, this is very useful !

[CooManChu]

I agree with Jason about the bell weaving in with the bass. The audio example is a nice touch too.

Here's a visual representation of what I hear. I think it pretty much agrees with what Jason put together above:

[CooManChu]

Hi again,

Here's an MP3 from the LA show mentioned above. The band cuts into Good Times from Communication Breakdown about half way through the track.

Due to the filesize upload limit, I couldn't include the whole track. I just included the Good Times part of the medley.

Coo

[Goody602]

Well I'll be damned, I always thought Good Times was just straight eights on the cowbell but upon listening to it even louder that usual I can hear the extra cowbell notes before the tom hits.

Many thanks to CooManChu and Nutha for posting that audio, great stuff. I think it's always cool when you find out there's a little extra wrinkle to something you thought you had figured out cold. I've been trying to get that Blueberry Hill boot because I've heard it's one of the better quality ones in circulation, but I always have problems downloading it. One of these days...

[ILikeMacs]

Bonham was the king man. Who on earth would play the drums that loud with bare hands with such a feel and not care that his hands were busted up.

what he played was simple and for the song, it worked, end of story. he inspired so many people to play, he can truly be called once of the greats

[NUTHA JASON]

hey coo, thanks for the clip. drums are pretty low there but boy does JPjones stand out. he is such a monster bassist.

j

[CooManChu]

hey coo, thanks for the clip. drums are pretty low there but boy does JPjones stand out. he is such a monster bassist.

j

:) anytime - JP rocks - definitely.

Some of these boots I have are really high quality - almost studio. This one isn't too bad, but the drums are a little low like you said. I think I have a couple where all you can hear is drums - that's OK by me.

I just starting getting into the recordings of these shows this year and it got kinda out of control for a while. I've tamed down now and am looking for higher quality sound instead of grabbing everything I can (which I'm still sort of doing, but at little more reasonable pace so that my wife can use the DSL connection from time to time).

[johnhavart]

Hi again,

Here's an MP3 from the LA show mentioned above.

Coo

Quite interesting and historical ! But one of Bonzo's trademark seems to have vanished. Where are the bass drum triplets here ?

Never mind ! when you listen to Zeppelin discography, you realise the genius of Bonham as a drummer influenced by jazz, blues and even soul.

[NUTHA JASON]

i agree.at the moment i'm trying to learn jazz. totally new to me because i have dedicated myself to pop, funk and rock drums. so to really lock the ostinato in place i take a drum magazine, put it on my snare, put on 'how many more times' from zep1 and play my right hand ride and feet while flipping the pages and reading articles with my left. when the track gets to the breakdown part i just hit the repeat button and do it all again for about 20 minutes a day. john had a great swing.

ps: RHYTHM magazine interviews jason bonham this month about his dad. very cool article.

[johnhavart]

i take a drum magazine, put it on my snare, put on 'how many more times' from zep1 and play my right hand ride and feet while flipping the pages and reading articles with my left.

Funny cause I do exactly the same with this song !

[pcmckay]

Quite interesting and historical ! But one of Bonzo's trademark seems to have vanished. Where are the bass drum triplets here ?

Never mind ! when you listen to Zeppelin discography, you realise the genius of Bonham as a drummer influenced by jazz, blues and even soul.

As John Paul Jones once said in an interview something to the effect that he was always more impressed with the little things that Bonzo would do rather than the monster triplets and the big thunderous drum fills.

[anthony]

Zeppelin was not hated by the record buying public, but they were not liked much by the critics/writers cause Peter Grant (the brains behind the operation) never allowed Zeppelin to do many interviews if any at all and that is what made them successful, besides the fact that you had 4 great musicians who wrote great tunes.

Peter Grant was a genius at keeping Zeppelin under wraps. As long as Zeppelin kept on cranking out one great album after another, the public kept buying them and the critics kept getting more pissed cause they couldn't get their hands on Zeppelin.

www.anthonyliberto.com

[drummer wannabe]

Hey guys, I found some pics of his black diamond pearl rig:
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/reference/gear/index.php?m=bonzo-early

As the site mentions, did he ever use a Slingerland at the very beginning of Led Zeppelin?

[Goody602]

Wow, 1000th post on Bonham.

Well that sure looks like a Slingerland logo to me in that first picture even though it's small and out of focus. The location on the head and the lettering give it away.

[handito]

Hi

First off I would like to say that I do not know if this is the right forum to put this thread in but since it is John Bonham related I thought it should be here in the drummers forum.

Anyway, I am to write a huge asignment for school on the way John Bonham influenced the music of Led Zeppelin. I will do this by analyzing several bars of different Led Zeppelin songs on sheet music. Now here is what I like to ask you guys about. It would be great for me if some of you could give me some examples of drummers that have inspired JB in his playing, for instance, if you can pin point a drummer or even better a track or beat that JB use as inspiration if you could spot a bit of Gene Krupa in his playing on Dazed and Confused etc. Also if you can point out some ways that he has influenced the drumming scene with his beats and style. I know that Beastie Boys has used some of his beats but if you could give me more examples I would truly apreciate it

Thanks