John Bonham

[KzSgDrummer]

Just listened through. What can be said.....thanks a million.

[ClockworkOrange]

Nothing compared to 73 and before?.....1975 was a year of awesome performances for Zep.

[dothecrunge]

Nothing compared to 73 and before?.....1975 was a year of awesome performances for Zep.


It sure was, but I didn't say anything otherwise. 1973 was infinitely better.

[dothecrunge]

Only one person downloaded this so far? C'mon people, if you downloaded it, at least voice your opinion, good or bad.

[LiveGoat]

Wow! That was was my first listen to bootleg Zep and I'm hooked. I've heard that Page has gone around aquiring all the bootlegs he comes across. What is he gonna do with em? Destroy them or release them? Anyway, thanks for the song!

--LG

[gr82bagn]

I downloaded it and as usual a great “Rock and Roll” song played by a great band. In my opinion the only difference that existed in Zep 73 and Zep 77 is that in 77 they were all 4 years older, wiser and in my opinion 4 years better for having given me the last 4 years of rocking pleasure. Brother, when it comes to Zep there is no Good Times, Bad Times and for all the years of performances they shared with us all I can say is “Thank You” Led Zeppelin.

[dothecrunge]

Wow! That was was my first listen to bootleg Zep and I'm hooked. I've heard that Page has gone around aquiring all the bootlegs he comes across. What is he gonna do with em? Destroy them or release them? Anyway, thanks for the song!

--LG

Most of the 1973 soundboards were literally stolen from Jimmy Page's vault in his house by a disgruntled maid. He does collect bootlegs. This track can be heard on the DVD. I forget where, but it's on one of the menus. I forgot, this show, and recording is famous because of the taper. Mike "the Mike" Millard. His tapes sound better than official releases, IMO.

[drumbig]

Thanks for the treat, I enjoyed every second. In the beginning that is some of the fastest single bass drum work I have ever heard If you didn't catch it listen to it again it'll be worth it.

[dothecrunge]

Got the book today. Won't be able to start reading it until I finish the book I'm reading now.

[Bonham to the moon]

ya i used some christmas money and bought a bunch of used books off of amazon along with that book, got a few days ago and so far have only read about 15 pages, so far so good. its really cool to get a family members perspective.

[playplayplay]

Bonham, yeah!!!
I just got done watching Niels new DVD.( Anatomy) and now Bonhams book... I think I died and went to drum heaven!!! RIGHT ON!!! EH!

[RickJames]

D'oh. I was hoping it was some sort of workbook based around his playing style.

[dothecrunge]

Any requests?

Rehearsals, outtakes, unreleased songs, bootlegs [request something by year maybe]

[Infectious Grooves]

How do you listen to it or download it? It doesn't have anything to click on.

[NZ[v]etalhead]

Jesus that was good....

Cheers

[Stu_Strib]

Only one person downloaded this so far? C'mon people, if you downloaded it, at least voice your opinion, good or bad.

'Please Wait 45 Seconds....'

"Megaupload simple, fast, and FREE!"

Yeah, if it's so simple, HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU DOWNLOAD THE FILE!


God I hate free web hosting sites.

[James_E]

Just wait until the 45 seconds is over, and a download link appears, right where the 45 second countdown timer is.

However, megaupload places an ad in that part of the screen so you can't see the timeout finish. Click on the [x] in the upper right corner to close that ad and behind it the timeout counter is there... and it will switch to "download" after the 45 seconds.

[arnoman]

hey does anyone know a site where i can read about the drum recording of the Zep drums?

[berlioz]

www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech1.html

[intooder]

-I know Nutha compiled a list of Zep songs with tricky drum parts, and I have to add "In my time of Dying" to that. It's amazing how Bonham and Jones stay so tight through the entire thing.
-Personally, I prefer Bonzo's Montreaux over Moby Dick, although I have no idea if it was recorded in one take (BTW, is he playing a steel drum as well?)
-I've always wondered about one of the versions of "How Many More Times" on the DVD (it's in black and white and on a TV show of some kind). About 2/3rds into the song they all pause, camera closes up on Bonzo who's looking pretty motionless, and you hear what sounds like machine gun fire. I've gone back and watched it many times and can't figure out if the infamous right foot is somehow involved. Anyone with insight to this?

[NUTHA JASON]

-I know Nutha compiled a list of Zep songs with tricky drum parts, and I have to add "In my time of Dying" to that. It's amazing how Bonham and Jones stay so tight through the entire thing.
-Personally, I prefer Bonzo's Montreaux over Moby Dick, although I have no idea if it was recorded in one take (BTW, is he playing a steel drum as well?)

in my time of dying is very cool.
montreaux
the basic track as far as i know was recorded in one take. then there were some overdubs of bonham playing on his famous tipmanis. jimi page then took the overdubs and messed with them electronically until they sound like steel pans. genius

j

[dothecrunge]

-I know Nutha compiled a list of Zep songs with tricky drum parts, and I have to add "In my time of Dying" to that. It's amazing how Bonham and Jones stay so tight through the entire thing.
-Personally, I prefer Bonzo's Montreaux over Moby Dick, although I have no idea if it was recorded in one take (BTW, is he playing a steel drum as well?)
-I've always wondered about one of the versions of "How Many More Times" on the DVD (it's in black and white and on a TV show of some kind). About 2/3rds into the song they all pause, camera closes up on Bonzo who's looking pretty motionless, and you hear what sounds like machine gun fire. I've gone back and watched it many times and can't figure out if the infamous right foot is somehow involved. Anyone with insight to this?

I personally think In My Time of Dying is Bonzo's greatest work.

Watch Jimmy Page's right hand during the "machine gun fire". ;)

[intooder]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll definitely have to watch for what Page's up to. I guesss I've always been too fixated on Bonzo (surprise...).

[Sar]

Well the way I know it is...

1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a 4 e + a
r l R l r l r L r L r L R l R L
o o O o o o o O o O o O O o O O

[Sar]

Well the way I know it is...

r l R l r l r L r L r L R l R L
o o O o o o o O o O o O O o O O

[Will-Myster]

I'm currently being taught this in lessons.
Half time shuffles.. Man...

[A thunder of Coxy]

Did Bonzo use a normal sized snare wire or was it a 42 strand wire? Im sure Nutha will know :D I just love that fatness but also the resonance of his Supraphonic

[NUTHA JASON]

he certainly used the 40 and 42 strand varieties. when he started using them, i don't really know. could be right from the first album.

j

[dothecrunge]

he certainly used the 40 and 42 strand varieties. when he started using them, i don't really know. could be right from the first album.

j

To my knowledge, Bonzo was very protective of his snare for some reason. I guess he didn't want anyone stealing his tuning secrets or something.

I have no idea the answer to your question. Sorry.

[blinkdrummer182]

hey, i've been playing drums for almost 2 years now and i play a mapex pro m 4 piece kit. I've been trying to figure out how John Bonham does his rolls on the bass pedal like in "good times bad times". can anyone help?

[Guinness]

When you find the answer please tell me. That guy was just a freak of nature.

[~tamadrummer~]

practice, practice, practice. there really wasnt a secret or anyhitng.

[drumbig]

Check out Jo Jo Mayer here http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/jojomayerbasss.html

You can at least see how it 's done

[DarkToxin]

Much practice will equal goodness.

It took me a year and a half to get my foot half as fast as he can do it

[Class A Drummer]

are u talking about when he does in triplets hi-hat bass bass? if so just practice alot. My first drum book i got when i was 7 was my led zeppelin book and that was on of the first i played. took a while but it got easier and easier.

[HiTMaN]

Practice both double strokes and triplets with your feet.

doubles with your feet: rr ll rr ll and ll rr ll rr

triplets with your feet: lrr lrr lrr lrr and rll rll rll rll

Oh yeah...a whole lot!!! and you will be unstoppable..seriously though, switch your starting foot and strengthen both feet...not just one.

[Bernhard]

Practice both double strokes and triplets with your feet.

doubles with your feet: rr ll rr ll and ll rr ll rr

triplets with your feet: lrr lrr lrr lrr and rll rll rll rll

Oh yeah...a whole lot!!! and you will be unstoppable..seriously though, switch your starting foot and strengthen both feet...not just one.

This were double-bass exercises, but John didn't use doublebass??!!!

So, with single pedal: In any case, it's a good idea to practice Triplets between Snare and Bass Drum and moving the starting point:

BD - L - R
L - BD - R
R - L - BD
BD - R - L
R - BD - L
L - R - BD

L = Snare Left Hand
R = Snare Right Hand
BD = BassDrum

Bernhard

[nhzoso]

Thats a good tip bernard, I gave an attempt at "in my time of dying" yesterday and man I have quite a long way to go for that song. I think he may use the Floor Tom with the Bass on that one, Atleast I hope so because if its all Bass then I dont think it's ever gonna happen. With single BD anyway.

[berlioz]

Thats a good tip bernard, I gave an attempt at "in my time of dying" yesterday and man I have quite a long way to go for that song. I think he may use the Floor Tom with the Bass on that one, Atleast I hope so because if its all Bass then I dont think it's ever gonna happen. With single BD anyway.

yeah that is a challenging groove to play, and its all single bass drum, no floor tom.

[lilblakdak]

Its all practice, and a peddle with a really soft feel. Heal/toeing makes it alot easier. Nico McBrain from Iron Maiden does alot of the same kick patterns.

[stumprrp]

build up ankle strength, doing it with your leg will be energy consuming and hard.

[Jookbox]

i've seen chad smith do it a lot. one of the few 'technical' things i've seen him do. he does it quite well.

[dawg]

if you can get a drum transcription of "good times,bad times" that will help see what he does.i know there is a zep drum transcription book for some of their songs(like "the crunge".)i just practiced quarter notes on the high-hat(half open)partial 8th note triplets with the bass drum(trip-let) and 2 and 4 (or just a hit on 3 for a half-time feel)and just work up to speed,for starters.so it'd be ONE

[dawg]

if you can get a drum transcription of "good times,bad times" that will help see what he does.i know there is a zep drum transcription book for some of their songs(like "the crunge".)i just practiced quarter notes on the high-hat(half open), partial 8th note triplets with the bass drum(trip-let) and 2 and 4 (or just a hit on 3 for a half-time feel) on the snare and just work up to speed,for starters.so it'd be ONE- trip -let TWO trip-let,etc.

[pcmckay]

My favorite Bonham tracks are "Out on the Tiles", "Wanton Song", "The Crunge", "Achilles Last Stand", "Nobody's Fault but Mine", "Misty Mountain Hop", and of course the baddest groove ever "When the Levee Breaks." But I think my favorite to play along with is "Out on the Tiles." What do you guys think of this track?

[A thunder of Coxy]

Not my fav to play, but I think this was the 1st song I heard Bonham using his famous doubles on thebass drum. As soon as I got home I tried this and could do it but opened alot more windows if ye know what I mean.

[Bonzo91]

John Bonham is definetly the God of All Drums my favorite drummer ever to have lived, and yet he spirit lives on, ever since i saw John on the Led Zeppelin Dvd and have herd him from Led Zeppelin cd's Its the only style ive ever played is John's style ever since i got my first full kit, i think its a bit of an addiction. I hear this alot "you cant juest play one drummers style or youl never get any better, you got to take some bits and peaces of other drummers" and im beggining to think thats true but John is still the best drummer of all time.




Long live John Henry Bonham

[foursticks]

My favorite Bonham tracks are "Out on the Tiles", "Wanton Song", "The Crunge", "Achilles Last Stand", "Nobody's Fault but Mine", "Misty Mountain Hop", and of course the baddest groove ever "When the Levee Breaks." But I think my favorite to play along with is "Out on the Tiles." What do you guys think of this track?
Out on the tiles is great, i love it. Led Zeppelin III is waaaay too under rated. i like their acoustic stuff ALOT....

[Skylane]

John Bonham is one of my favorite drummers. However lets not forget that he died at a very young age due to alcohol abuse. I doubt very much that he was ever sober on stage. Can you imagine how great he could of been without the booze??

Skylane

[pdp 9091]

John Bonham is one of my favorite drummers. However lets not forget that he died at a very young age due to alcohol abuse. I doubt very much that he was ever sober on stage. Can you imagine how great he could of been without the booze??

Skylane

You cant really try to see how great he would have been without the booze because he wasn't drunk on stage 24/7. Maybe a little buzzed but you cant be totaly drunk on stage playing as well as he did. Just watch the Led Zeppelin dvd.

[drummerstix_au]

If Bonham was on the booze while he was on stage, I dont think he could have been as solid as he was... but then again if he hadn't been drinking.. do u think we would have seen that awesome hands section in Moby Dick?

[Bonhamfan]

Bonham hit the skins hard, songs like Four Sticks and the ocean really display his power both on the beat and fills.

[pdp 9091]

the ocean = my favorite song to play

when the levee breaks = my favorite drum groove/beat

the song remains the same and achilles last stand = two favorite for listening purposes

John Bonham = favorite drummer of all time

Led Zeppelin = Favorite band of all time

[pdp 9091]

Did Bonzo use a normal sized snare wire or was it a 42 strand wire? Im sure Nutha will know :D I just love that fatness but also the resonance of his Supraphonic

Pick up the Jeff Ocheltree dvd...he was the drum tech for bonham in the late 70's....he shares so many secrets about bonhams sound....a part of the dvd is also on bonhams page.

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech1.html

its pretty interesting stuff

[foursticks]

You cant really try to see how great he would have been without the booze because he wasn't drunk on stage 24/7. Maybe a little buzzed but you cant be totaly drunk on stage playing as well as he did. Just watch the Led Zeppelin dvd.
damn straight.... i love that dvd, i like the 1st one the best, bonzo was at his best back then...

[pdp 9091]

damn straight.... i love that dvd, i like the 1st one the best, bonzo was at his best back then...

ya i probably have watched that dvd 4 million times...lol....but in my opinion i think he was at his greatest on the second dvd because he was more mature in his style of drumming- more controlled and even tamed (if that makes sense)....dont get me wrong bonzo was soooooo great on the first disc but i think as he got older and matured more from the 21 year old he was on the first disc to the 30 year old he was at Knebworth...he picked up more of controll with his fills/technique. Just take the fills in Kashmir for example....totaly amazing....but all in all....awesome dvd!

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_Royal_Albert_Hall_London_9_jan_1970.jpg

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_Knebworth_UK_aug_1979-01.jpg

[foursticks]

I agree with you there, but he was a beast on the first dvd which is what i mean't... i love how he opens we're gonna groove. great song....

[pdp 9091]

I agree with you there, but he was a beast on the first dvd which is what i mean't... i love how he opens we're gonna groove. great song....

did u catch up on the video before the song "we're gonna groove"....he does a fill when before plant greets and audience and he breaks a stick. thats not even 15 seconds into the dvd and he already broke a stick!! but ya hes so crazy on the first dvd its amazing.....im actually watching it right now...theyre playing how many more times...great song..and after that song ....the best one of all...i dont even have to tell you what it is...lol


and


this is what i read about how the recoring of "when the levee breaks"

The legendary drum sound in the Zeppelin track 'When The Levee Breaks' was recorded in this way: Bonham was sat at the bottom of a stairwell on his kit and he had the mics positioned 3 flights above him. Hence the stuttered reverb effect on each snare hit. Worth bearing in mind if you ever...erm...find yourself on a stairwell with a drumkit.

dont know if this was brought up already but just thought this was pretty cool

[pcmckay]

I was very happy when the DVD came out. Finally some great footage of the man at work. For years we were stuck with "The Song Remains The Same" movie and it didn't do the band justice, alot of the time the audio doesn't match the video and it was more frustrating than anything else to watch. My favorite clip is the black and white footage of "Rock and Roll" in Australia. The solo at the end is incredible, the tripletts are so fast. Amazing!

[Bonham to the moon]

I was very happy when the DVD came out. Finally some great footage of the man at work. For years we were stuck with "The Song Remains The Same" movie and it didn't do the band justice, alot of the time the audio doesn't match the video and it was more frustrating than anything else to watch. My favorite clip is the black and white footage of "Rock and Roll" in Australia. The solo at the end is incredible, the tripletts are so fast. Amazing!

Ya, and theres so much more footage and studio outtakes that jimmy and robert arent putting out

[NUTHA JASON]

perhaps a led zeppelin 2 dvd will come out one day.

BUT how about this idea:

we missed a 25 year memorial of the passing of John Bonham. but in 2010 it will be 30 years. so they have five years to make:

BURNING FOR BONZO

a double disc featuring on disc 1 an evening with such greats as:

steve smith
nico mcbrain
chad smith
dave grohl
carmine appice
and the amber vistalite (of course)...

all playing a great tribute concert to the godfather of rock 'n roll drumming.

disc 2 features an extensive break down of each of john's great drumming masterpieces and his signature chops by the master drummers of today.
also included...some never before seen footage of john in the studio and an interview with jeff ocheltree and john paul jones.

j


PS: everyone who knows anyone who could have the power to make his happen should make it happen.

[gr82bagn]

NJ,
Great idea, perhaps a small interview with Jason Bonham would round out the dvd nicely.

[NUTHA JASON]

yes! actually having him as the prime teacher of his dad's licks with a little help from steve smith would be perfect.

[CJK84]

I haven't read all of the posts in this very long thread, but one thing that has been mostly missing (I've seen only one post on it) is that Bonham had a great swing to his playing, which is a major reason why he sounds so utterly unique.

Swinging was common in 60s rock drumming (Ringo and Charlie certainly have some swing to their playing), but Bonham seems to swing more and seemingly swings on every bar of every song.

And swinging can be awesome!

Drummers who play evenly are ok by me, but those who swing bring the listener into that gray area that is sometimes more exciting - more exciting because there is an almost infinite number of degrees to which a drummer can swing.

Listen to Bonham's HH work on Stairway to Heaven. He adds quite a few extra hits (probably with his left hand) between the 8th notes. These extra hits are relatively quiet and swung just so perfectly it's hard to imagine it could be done any better.

And I don't know if anyone else has brought it up here, but Bonham is one of the extremely few white guys (as far as I know) who could cop this swinging feel that made Zep's tunes seem more funky and soulful than nearly every other white band.

[NUTHA JASON]

absolute agreed. to hear and experience that swing one has only to try to learn fool in the rain from tab...its all there but when you play it if you don't swing it bonham style it sounds bad.

j

[CyclopseSlayer]

and the amber vistalite (of course)...



Y'know everyone's all about the vistalites, but I'm much more enamored with the early 70's green sparkle kits. They seem to be the "behind the scenes" or "unsung heroes" of his drums. What a sound.

Same thing with the Giant Beats, everyone associates the 2002's with Bonham, and he did play them longer, and they sound unbelievable, but listen to the beauty of him crashing that 24" Giant Beat in "Out on the Tiles" It sends chills down your spine.

[tambian89]

Here's something to consider: "When the Levee Breaks" is the most sampled groove ever. It usually sampled by rappers who are looking for a good grove that can be repeated over and over. To me, John Bonham is the most influential rock drummer; he has not only influenced every rock-oriented drum part (even if indirectly), but has influenced rap and hip-hop, which is currently the most popular style of music (at least I consider it to be, since most radio stations play either Rap or R&B, and most teens listen to this style)

- Marc

[NUTHA JASON]

while i totally agree with you in your post ... you are wrong about the most sampled groove bit...that belongs squarely to either or both clyde stubfield and jabo starks in the james brown band...the groove? well we all call it funk but they invented it.

j

[Bonhamfan]

while i totally agree with you in your post ... you are wrong about the most sampled groove bit...that belongs squarely to either or both clyde stubfield and jabo starks in the james brown band...the groove? well we all call it funk but they invented it.

j


Your right. Bonham's beats are sampled quite a bit though along with other great drummers, and that is why I dislike rap, it seems so unimprovised, it's to easy to create and it all sounds the same. There is no heart in that type of music IMO.

[tambian89]

Here's something to consider: "When the Levee Breaks" is the most sampled groove ever. It usually sampled by rappers who are looking for a good grove that can be repeated over and over. To me, John Bonham is the most influential rock drummer; he has not only influenced every rock-oriented drum part (even if indirectly), but has influenced rap and hip-hop, which is currently the most popular style of music (at least I consider it to be, since most radio stations play either Rap or R&B, and most teens listen to this style)

- Marc

One of the most sampled grooves ever.....

- Marc

[finnhiggins]

Your right. Bonham's beats are sampled quite a bit though along with other great drummers, and that is why I dislike rap, it seems so unimprovised, it's to easy to create and it all sounds the same. There is no heart in that type of music IMO.

Ah, the voice of ignorance speaks. That, I'm quite sure, is what a lot of jazz snobs said about Bonham and rock music in general at the time. Go grab yourself a few Roots records - particularly the live ones - and then tell me there's no heart in the music, and that it's easy to create. As for sampling, go grab yourself a copy of "Safe From Harm" by Massive Attack and then tell me it's a worse song than the Billy Cobham groove it was built on top of. Or any of the work of DJ Shadow, who knows more about drums and groove than 95% of drummers.

If drummers are to stay influential we have to get with the times. Hip hop is a huge part of our musical culture at the moment, being totally ignorant of it is pretty hard to excuse if you want to consider yourself a serious musician.

If Bonham was around today I'm sure he'd be a mean hip hop drummer. I'd love to see that, actually, he'd be awesome at it.

[Bonhamfan]

Ah, the voice of ignorance speaks. That, I'm quite sure, is what a lot of jazz snobs said about Bonham and rock music in general at the time. Go grab yourself a few Roots records - particularly the live ones - and then tell me there's no heart in the music, and that it's easy to create. As for sampling, go grab yourself a copy of "Safe From Harm" by Massive Attack and then tell me it's a worse song than the Billy Cobham groove it was built on top of. Or any of the work of DJ Shadow, who knows more about drums and groove than 95% of drummers.

If drummers are to stay influential we have to get with the times. Hip hop is a huge part of our musical culture at the moment, being totally ignorant of it is pretty hard to excuse if you want to consider yourself a serious musician.

If Bonham was around today I'm sure he'd be a mean hip hop drummer. I'd love to see that, actually, he'd be awesome at it.


I think you miss read my sentence. I was by no means talking about old-school rap. I am talking about the likes of 50 cent, P diddy, etc. Sorry if you miss-read but that is what I meant. And if you notice singers like 50 cent usually don't even go on stage with a drummer let alone record with a drummer on one of their albums.

[pdp 9091]

I'm still waiting to see a live video or even hear live audio of "when the levee breaks."
some other songs i still wanna hear live are "hey hey what can i do," "fool in the rain," and "livin lovin maid" Am i just missing them because i dont think videos for those songs even exist

[finnhiggins]

I think you miss read my sentence. I was by no means talking about old-school rap. I am talking about the likes of 50 cent, P diddy, etc. Sorry if you miss-read but that is what I meant. And if you notice singers like 50 cent usually don't even go on stage with a drummer let alone record with a drummer on one of their albums.

Yeah, but 50 Cent is like the hip hop equivilent of the Monkees or something. He doesn't belong in any kind of serious musical discussion of styles :)

[foghorn2]

Brain chemistry is important in how a person expresses themselves on an instrument. I had surgery 4 years ago and was put out for hours and was not let out until someone could drive me home. I was told not to drive for 24 hours.

They did not tell me I could not plat the drums though! And I did. I played like never before. I was able to do things I could never imagine and can never recreate. I don't drink or do drugs. Thats a good thing.

But sometimes I wonder if I did, would I be a better musician?

Would Bonham be the drummer he was without the alcohol?

[Bonhamfan]

Yeah, but 50 Cent is like the hip hop equivilent of the Monkees or something. He doesn't belong in any kind of serious musical discussion of styles :)


Hahahahaha, funny comparison

The only reason I brought it up was because of the sampeling discussion. And new age rappers like 50 cent eminem (shudders) P diddy etc. use beats from the old school drummers and I dislike new age rappers because of that. Again funny comparison lol

[NUTHA JASON]

Would Bonham be the drummer he was without the alcohol?

well most importantly he would have been the drummer he was for a lot longer.

i don't think his alcohol improved nor feuled his skill as adrummer. drinking was more a part of his character, culture and family. bonzo was for me more of a studio genious and a great live showman. in the studio the choices and execution of them showed a man with a deep understanding of drumming who was completely on top of things...live he was the wild man of rock with everything that went with it. when i play live i have a few beers for the devil may care mood that puts me on the edge...but in the studio i don't drink (heck who wants to try and stay drunk or even tipsy for those kinds of hours....eeeugh)

j

[Bonham to the moon]

drinking was more a part of his character, culture and family.

yea, after reading his new biography, written by his brother, drinking was just in his famiy, they were hard working englishmen that relied on a couple of beers to unwind a night.

[NUTHA JASON]

i enjoyed that book, did you? didn't learn much about how bonzo played drums but did get more of a feel for the man. also learned a bit more about his influences. i think the book settles the debate on whether carmine appice taught him the bass drum triplet...he did not. bonzo developed that independantly. he only became aware of and met vanilla fudge when zep supported them on the first american tour. bonzo had been using the triplet for years before that.

j

[dothecrunge]

i enjoyed that book, did you? didn't learn much about how bonzo played drums but did get more of a feel for the man. also learned a bit more about his influences. i think the book settles the debate on whether carmine appice taught him the bass drum triplet...he did not. bonzo developed that independantly. he only became aware of and met vanilla fudge when zep supported them on the first american tour. bonzo had been using the triplet for years before that.

j

I told everyone that a long time ago. I have recordings of Bonzo from 1966 and 1967 with his good 'ole bass triplets.

[CyclopseSlayer]

When you guys talk about Bonham's triplets, are you referring to the "broken triplets" he does on like Good Times, Bad Times or something else?

[Bonham to the moon]

yes, thats what were talking about, his insane foot speed

i enjoyed that book, did you?

i did, it deffinetly showed his more personal side. Although, i dont know if his brother didnt know about John Bonhams other drug use, or he shyed away from telling people it, or if bonham just didnt use drugs other than alcohol. Becuase from other articles i've read about Led Zeppelin, i heard about strong acid and LSD use in the entire band.

[NUTHA JASON]

this 'bonzo used drugs' debate is a hard one. in the book mick hardly tries to hide his brother's faults so why would he shy away from mentioning drugs? after all i've read and seen i would only put it AS MY OPINION that bonzo probably tried a bit out here and there because its obvious that jimi and robert were doing loads, but bonzo was more for drinking and rowdiness. look at the fantasy sequences in 'song remains the same'...everyone is away with the fairies and wizards except bonzo...he's drag racing and roaring around the english countryside on his chopper. doesn't get much realer than that. a lot of people i know and knew took drugs and i see very few signs in john of the character quirks that come with long term use (nor the wasted skinny look - lol - bonzo was a big boy). i do see the alcoholic depressions and flares of anger and joviality. but IMO no drugs.

j

[bonham990]

Bonham hands down is my favourite drummer i love his power behind the drum set. His ledgendary triplets and who can forget about his right foot! my god he is better and maybe faster then most people that have a double pedal

[toteman2]

this 'bonzo used drugs' debate is a hard one. in the book mick hardly tries to hide his brother's faults so why would he shy away from mentioning drugs? after all i've read and seen i would only put it AS MY OPINION that bonzo probably tried a bit out here and there because its obvious that jimi and robert were doing loads, but bonzo was more for drinking and rowdiness. look at the fantasy sequences in 'song remains the same'...everyone is away with the fairies and wizards except bonzo...he's drag racing and roaring around the english countryside on his chopper. doesn't get much realer than that. a lot of people i know and knew took drugs and i see very few signs in john of the character quirks that come with long term use (nor the wasted skinny look - lol - bonzo was a big boy). i do see the alcoholic depressions and flares of anger and joviality. but IMO no drugs.

j

NJ...Alcohol, is a drug and a very powerful one...

[NUTHA JASON]

well done. i wasn't really going for a semantic debate. everybody understands that when one is talking about drugs they are talking about the illegal ones. take your argument too far and coffee, headache tablets and even sugar become part of the mix. don't slice the cake too finely or you just get crumbs.
j

[Bernhard]

Just added 2 new Videos:

Rock And Roll (Knebworth 1979) and The Ocean (Madison Square Garden 1973)

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/John_Bonham.html

enjoy

Bernhard

[adorno]

Awesome Bernhard. Though Robert Plant's jeans in the Ocean clip are obscene!

[Dill X]

Didn't Bonzo have a herion addiction?

[Bonham to the moon]

no, i dont think any of were, except Pagey. There were all just huge drinkers

[rendezvous_drummer]

Awesome Bernhard. Though Robert Plant's jeans in the Ocean clip are obscene!
those pants leave nothin to the imagination.....very very gross but other than that, cool video. Nicely done.

[toteman2]

. take your argument too far and coffee, headache tablets and even sugar become part of the mix. don't slice the cake too finely or you just get crumbs.
j


They don't become part of the mix, they are part of the mix...You should see me once I get a cup of coffe in me, with alot of sugar...

[tambian89]

I have been practicing my Bonham Triplets lately. Although I don't need to tell you this, I can do a triplet with one foot, but not at the rapid fire speed Bonzo did it. When you look back, it's amazing to realize that this is where the seeds of Rock and Metal drumming were "Plant"- ed (oooh! bad pun by me!). I think The Beatles created the starting point for Rock, but I really believe Led Zeppelin is the greatest rock band to ever have existed; They were able to innovate and make the sound The Beatles created into something with more dimension. Each member was great as his own instrument, and when they met together, it basically became like a superpower in music. Anyone else feel this way, or are you going to shoot down my proposal as quickly as usual and insult my already bad pun? Haha....

- Marc

[dothecrunge]

I have been practicing my Bonham Triplets lately. Although I don't need to tell you this, I can do a triplet with one foot, but not at the rapid fire speed Bonzo did it. When you look back, it's amazing to realize that this is where the seeds of Rock and Metal drumming were "Plant"- ed (oooh! bad pun by me!). I think The Beatles created the starting point for Rock, but I really believe Led Zeppelin is the greatest rock band to ever have existed; They were able to innovate and make the sound The Beatles created into something with more dimension. Each member was great as his own instrument, and when they met together, it basically became like a superpower in music. Anyone else feel this way, or are you going to shoot down my proposal as quickly as usual and insult my already bad pun? Haha....

- Marc

I agree with everything you said except the Beatles part. The Beatles didn't start anything.

[tambian89]

I agree with everything you said except the Beatles part. The Beatles didn't start anything.
Haha.....I'm not a huge Beatles fan either, and I think Zeppelin were the OG's when it comes to rock. Revolver is one of my favorite albums, but I thought that if I didn't post that little bit about the Beatles, everyone would jump all over me and be like "I hate you....you're so stupid and dumb.............eh!"

- Marc

[Dannar]

I agree with everything you said except the Beatles part. The Beatles didn't start anything.

You do realize that we wouldn't even know the name Led Zeppelin if it wasn't for The Beatles. We wouldn't know the name John Bonham if it wasn't for Ringo. To say The Beatles didn't start anything is probably one of the most absurd statements ever made in the history of man kind.

[wontgetfooledagain]

You do realize that we wouldn't even know the name Led Zeppelin if it wasn't for The Beatles. We wouldn't know the name John Bonham if it wasn't for Ringo. To say The Beatles didn't start anything is probably one of the most absurd statements ever made in the history of man kind.
I think you should probably back up your statements. Led Zeppelin probably owes more to Cream than it does the Beatles. Where is the definite blues influence in the Beatles music? Aside from the fact they were influenced by Chuck Berry (not really blues) it isn't really there.

[Bonham to the moon]

I think you should probably back up your statements.
well we already had this discusion on how much effect the beatles had on music, and Dothecrunge never backed up any of hs comments with good facts or opinions.

[Dannar]

I think you should probably back up your statements. Led Zeppelin probably owes more to Cream than it does the Beatles. Where is the definite blues influence in the Beatles music? Aside from the fact they were influenced by Chuck Berry (not really blues) it isn't really there.

Alright! Lets try this again! Hopefully It won't time out again.

Rock music hardly got any recognition before The Beatles came along. Guitar based rock music was viewed as a fad, something that would blow over. If The Beatles hadn't of made it big, early rock bands like The Rolling Stones, The Yardbirds, The Who, The Kinks, and other wouldn't have never gotten any attention. Remember that all of these bands had been around quite awhile before Led Zeppelin came along.

To specifically address the subject of Cream influencing Led Zeppelin, look at it this way. If The Beatles never made it big, than the Yardbirds never would have made it either. If the Yardbirds never made it, Eric Clapton never would have met John Mayall, who never would have introduced him to Jack Bruce, who never would have started a band with him, thus never having a Cream to influence Led Zeppelin. To really go into detail about the Yardbirds, dig this, If The Beatles never made it big, then neither would the Yardbirds, who never would have eventually hired Jimmy Page, who never would have put the New Yardbirds together after their break up, who never would have changed their name to Led Zeppelin.

The way I originally typed this up was better, but this gets the point across.

[NUTHA JASON]

things were started BEFORE the beatles. but let's be honest, the beatles spread the word very well. beatle mania quickly transmogrified into rockmania which then attached itself to anything worthy. so sooner or later it was zepmania. many aspiring musicians aspired to be ringo or john etc... and then discovered they could be even better although never quite as popular in a sense. but zep broke most of the beatles records in their 11 years. zep were the forst band in history to have every album they made featured in the top 200 albums.

j

[helldrummer]

Bonham hands down is my favourite drummer i love his power behind the drum set. His ledgendary triplets and who can forget about his right foot! my god he is better and maybe faster then most people that have a double pedal

whatever.. that is bullcrap... i've heard john bonham's triplets and they are great but no.. just.... NO. you can't say he is "better or maybe faster" than most double pedal users...... i am so frickin' sick of all you boring little single pedal players who are like "aw well i can make my single pedal sound like a double by mixing it up with the floor tom" etc. or "i use heel-toe technique" or whatever (try using heel-toe on two pedals).. ..just admit it: for heavy music you can't beat the sound that a good double pedal or double bass drum player can punch out.
listen to virgil donati, danny carey or raymond herrera.. or tim alexander from primus

anyway, yes john bonham rules...... but i have never liked moby dick.
non-drummers always ask "have you heard moby dick?? it's amAzing drumming!! can you play it??" etc. but i just find it boring and repetitive to be honest (sorry).
but i love bonham's playing on just about every other song from "2"
especially the first two tracks

[finnhiggins]

whatever.. that is bullcrap... i've heard john bonham's triplets and they are great but no.. just.... NO. you can't say he is "better or maybe faster" than most double pedal users...... i am so frickin' sick of all you boring little single pedal players who are like "aw well i can make my single pedal sound like a double by mixing it up with the floor tom" etc. or "i use heel-toe technique" or whatever (try using heel-toe on two pedals).. ..just admit it: for heavy music you can't beat the sound that a good double pedal or double bass drum player can punch out.
listen to virgil donati, danny carey or raymond herrera.. or tim alexander from primus


Tim Alexander probably isn't that great an example. Much of his stuff is achievable without a double pedal, I don't doubt that somebody like Zach Hill of Hella could play most of that fairly accurately without resorting to two feet. Tim does a lot of triplet phrases between the hands and feet with each foot only playing a single stroke on each bass drum pedal, that kind of stuff is easily replicated with a single pedal. Not that he isn't an awesome drummer, of course. I bought a double pedal because of him, and then gave up because I realised that all the stuff that was awesome about him didn't really need one.

This deserves to be on another thread, and indeed there is a thread for it, but here's the deal: If you play music that needs a double pedal then you need one. But the reality is that for most music you quite simply can get the same end result by mixing it up with the toms and heel-toe techniques. It's only really when you get into the land of constant double kick or rudimental work with the feet that you start needing the other foot to come into play.

I do agree that Bonham's foot would probably not be considered particularly fast by modern standards though. He had great power and control over both his dynamics and his beat placement with his right foot, but I don't think that he's a great candidate to stand up to the likes of Zach Hill or Jo Jo Mayer on the single foot speed front.

[helldrummer]

Tim Alexander probably isn't that great an example. Much of his stuff is achievable without a double pedal, I don't doubt that somebody like Zach Hill of Hella could play most of that fairly accurately without resorting to two feet. Tim does a lot of triplet phrases between the hands and feet with each foot only playing a single stroke on each bass drum pedal, that kind of stuff is easily replicated with a single pedal. Not that he isn't an awesome drummer, of course. I bought a double pedal because of him, and then gave up because I realised that all the stuff that was awesome about him didn't really need one.

This deserves to be on another thread, and indeed there is a thread for it, but here's the deal: If you play music that needs a double pedal then you need one. But the reality is that for most music you quite simply can get the same end result by mixing it up with the toms and heel-toe techniques. It's only really when you get into the land of constant double kick or rudimental work with the feet that you start needing the other foot to come into play.

I do agree that Bonham's foot would probably not be considered particularly fast by modern standards though. He had great power and control over both his dynamics and his beat placement with his right foot, but I don't think that he's a great candidate to stand up to the likes of Zach Hill or Jo Jo Mayer on the single foot speed front.

you're right about tim: most of his stuff can be played with a single... but it's his subtle use of the double that appeals to me (jerry was a racecar driver, mr. know it all...).
songs like pudding time and wynona's big brown beaver (...can't get over that name..) would be impossible for me to play using a single (cos i'm crap) but i guess a skilled single-kicker like jo jo mayer could play them...

however, you will never have the same dynamic range playing heel-toe/rapid doubles between tom hits etc. on a single as you will playing straight with a double.
and double bass just doesn't have the same tough sound to it when imitated, even when imitated extremely well

personally i think bonham's foot is incredible in its own right.. if bonham had used two bass drums he would have used them much more wisely than many of today's double bassers... he might have done things like crescendos or swung 8ths in a shuffle or even swung 16ths (swung bass drum notes actually don't sound too bad if you don't put excessive swing on them) and not doubt been extremely creative with it....
i've always thought danny carey (excluding opiate) has a bit of a bonham sound, especially on undertow and aenima.. he's got similar indian percussive influences too
actually track 11 on lateralus is a bit bonham-ish.. ..sort of

oh.. long post, sorry :P

[NUTHA JASON]

john's speed was impressive for his day but i never cared for how fast he did this or that. it is his groove, his taste that keeps me listening to zep on nearly a daily basis for 14 years now. when i want to emulate bonham - when i think of why he is my hero - i don't practice triplets with my foot...what i do do is try to capture the ferocious joy that comes across in his drumming. i think, how would bonzo approach this intro? how does he think of snare placement? how would he unstaighten this groove tastefully?etc....

j

[Dannar]

things were started BEFORE the beatles. but let's be honest, the beatles spread the word very well. beatle mania quickly transmogrified into rockmania which then attached itself to anything worthy. so sooner or later it was zepmania. many aspiring musicians aspired to be ringo or john etc... and then discovered they could be even better although never quite as popular in a sense. but zep broke most of the beatles records in their 11 years. zep were the forst band in history to have every album they made featured in the top 200 albums.

j


Yea I agree that things were started before The Beatles came along, The Beatles just proved that it was here to stay, I went into more detail about Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Elvis, Fats Domino, and guys like that in my origional post, but after it timed out and I lost all of it I really didn't want to type it all out again.

[NUTHA JASON]

d'oh! that's happened to me a couple of times too. type long messages on word pad, copy and paste to be sure.

j

[Bonham to the moon]

ohn's speed was impressive for his day

i havent seen anyone come close to bonhams right foot, except maybe jo jo mayer, but even then, there not as powerful as bonhams.

[dothecrunge]

The Beatles were great, blah blah blah. The fact remains, the Beatles did not influence Led Zeppelin musically. Thier first two albums should prove that. Blues, anyone? I'd list thier infuences, but it would take a while, and it doesn't include John, Paul, George, or Ringo.

But then everyone's gonna say, but without Ringo!......................but nothing, Bonzo was not influenced by Ringo. And the same goes for every member of Led Zeppelin.

[Dannar]

The Beatles were great, blah blah blah. The fact remains, the Beatles did not influence Led Zeppelin musically. Thier first two albums should prove that. Blues, anyone? I'd list thier infuences, but it would take a while, and it doesn't include John, Paul, George, or Ringo.

But then everyone's gonna say, but without Ringo!......................but nothing, Bonzo was not influenced by Ringo. And the same goes for every member of Led Zeppelin.

I wouldn't say that The Beatles didn't influence Led Zeppelin, The intro to Led Zeppelin's "In The Light" has a striking resemblance to The Beatles "Within you Without you". Since you don't seem to even listen to The Beatles how could you say that they don't influence Zeppelin, when you yourself are not even familiar with The Beatles music. I don't mean that in a rude way. As some one who is familiar with both bands I notice a few similarities here and there. I don't think that they are a huge influence by any means, but what I was trying to say earlier isn't how The Beatles influenced Led Zeppelin. but how The Beatles paved the road for bands like Zeppelin.

I realize Bonzo wasn't heavily influenced by Ringo, but Ringo brought rock drummers into the lime light, and since Bonham was a rock drummer, that is something he can attribute to Ringo. To say The Beatles didn't have a influence on the other members of Zeppelin isn't exactly true either. It may not be really obvious, but like I said earlier, every once in a while there is something that rings back to a Beatles song. I'll try to dig up some other similarities, but in the mean time check out the song I mention earlier.

I should make it clear that I love both The Beatles and Led Zeppelin equally, I am not trying to take The Beatles sides on this or anything, I just think it's good to know your roots.

[Breakaway Faction]

I think by far in my opinion in my opinion "In My Time of Dying" is my fav song.

Ever time I try to seat down and play this sone along with the band on a set of head phones, I just end up stopping and grooving with Bonzo, with the classic head shake and lip curl. I can't even play drums to it cause it's too fun to listen to.HAHAHA

[TonKpilS_657]

fool in the rain.....

[Bonham to the moon]

The Beatles were great, blah blah blah. The fact remains, the Beatles did not influence Led Zeppelin musically. Thier first two albums should prove that. Blues, anyone? I'd list thier infuences, but it would take a while, and it doesn't include John, Paul, George, or Ringo.

But then everyone's gonna say, but without Ringo!......................but nothing, Bonzo was not influenced by Ringo. And the same goes for every member of Led Zeppelin.


Its not that each member was influenced by the beatles directly, they were indirectly. Yes Bonham might not list Ringo as one of his influences, but he would list Keith Moon as a huge influence, and one of Moons big influences was Ringo. The beatles paved the way for every other english band in America. Led Zeppelin made there name in America, thats where they were most popular. Without The Beatles, America might have rejected all the English bands that came in. Thats why there the most influencial band of all time. You need to open your mind up a little bit and see the bigger picture.

[Bonham to the moon]

The Rain song, although simple, he just read that song so well. It also shows how versitile he was, yea he could lay down a phat blues groove, but he could also lay down a delicate beat that compliments the song so well.

[Dannar]

Its not that each member was influenced by the beatles directly, they were indirectly. Yes Bonham might not list Ringo as one of his influences, but he would list Keith Moon as a huge influence, and one of Moons big influences was Ringo. The beatles paved the way for every other english band in America. Led Zeppelin made there name in America, thats where they were most popular. Without The Beatles, America might have rejected all the English bands that came in. Thats why there the most influencial band of all time. You need to open your mind up a little bit and see the bigger picture.

Nicely put.

The more you know

'Cause knowledge is power!

[pdp 9091]

Yes Bonham might not list Ringo as one of his influences, but he would list Keith Moon as a huge influence, and one of Moons big influences was Ringo.

does anybody know whats ironic about moon being an influence to bonham?

[CyclopseSlayer]

i havent seen anyone come close to bonhams right foot, except maybe jo jo mayer, but even then, there not as powerful as bonhams.

You really should check out Zach Hill, especially live. I will go ahead and go out on a limb and say his kick work is in league with Bonham, especially in the sense of innovation, not to mention speed, power, and importantly,creativity and energy. I have had the pleasure of sitting no more than three feet away from him many times at his shows, and I am constantly blown away with all the aspects I mentioned above with which he plays.
Tama really needs to have him help design some hardware and especially modifications to the Iron Cobra, as he has destroyed many of the metal parts of his equipment just with his playing. Sticks and heads are a whole nother matter with him.

It should be noted that Zach is a huge fan of both John Bonham and Tim Alexander, and I'm sure he would be very honored to be mentioned alongside them in these discussions.

[Bonham to the moon]

does anybody know whats ironic about moon being an influence to bonham?

yes?? Bonham saw Moon live many times and was amazed at his power and speed.

[pdp 9091]

yes?? Bonham saw Moon live many times and was amazed at his power and speed.

not exactly but the ironic thing about moon being bonhams influence is:

the way led zeppelin got their name is from keith moon....when led zeppelin formed drummer of the who keith moon told them theyd go down faster than a led zeppelin....therefore giving led zeppelin their name. so basically the one that influenced bonham told him that his band would fail and go no where.

[Dannar]

not exactly but the ironic thing about moon being bonhams influence is:

the way led zeppelin got their name is from keith moon....when led zeppelin formed drummer of the who keith moon told them theyd go down faster than a led zeppelin....therefore giving led zeppelin their name. so basically the one that influenced bonham told him that his band would fail and go no where.


He told Jimmy that they would go over like a "led balloon". He told Jimmy this when Jimmy was considering starting a band with Keith Moon, John Entwistle, and Steve Winwood. He didn't direct it twoards Led Zeppelin, he said it about the band Jimmy wanted to start with Moon.

[Bonham to the moon]

He told Jimmy that they would go over like a "led balloon". He told Jimmy this when Jimmy was considering starting a band with Keith Moon, John Entwistle, and Steve Winwood. He didn't direct it twoards Led Zeppelin, he said it about the band Jimmy wanted to start with Moon.

exactly.

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 20 characters.

[wontgetfooledagain]

It saddens me a little that The Beatles are singularly the greatest thing to happen to rock music. Oh well...

[Dannar]

It saddens me a little that The Beatles are singularly the greatest thing to happen to rock music. Oh well...

Cheer up! No reason to be down about The Beatles being amazing, it doesn't make Zeppelin any less amazing.

[a_rockdrummer]

if you like to here the same old crap over and over again
then you like john bonham, as far as i'm concernd he's
way over rated.

[a_rockdrummer]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

[Dannar]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

Same crap over and over again, are you kidding me?!

How can you sit here and say out like those three drummers but don't like Bonham. I'm especialy amazed that you insult Bonham, then list Alex Van Halen as someone more well rounded as him! Not to insult Alex, or any of his fans, but A V H never really did it for me, I never really dug him, not to say he is bad or anything.

Keith Moon and Neil Peart I can see why someone may be a bigger fan of them, but to say that one is better than the other is a very ignorant statement. That's like saying chocolate is better than vanilla, it's all opinion. To say that chocolate is the same old crap and vanilla is much better is ridiculous!

Oh, and I don't like to "here" Bonham, I like to "hear" Bonham.

I'll let someone else take it from here...

[pcmckay]

Achille's Last Stand, or Out on the Tiles

[Bonham to the moon]

i find that if you for the most part try to ignore the ignorant posts things are a lot easier, though i have a tough time not saying something sometimes.

[pcmckay]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

I respect your opinion even though I feel you are wrong. Trying to say one drummer is better then the other is like comparing apples and oranges. Everyone has their own style and expresses themselves differently, that is the beauty of music. Neil Peart's drumming wouldn't have fit with Zeppelin's music and Bonham wouldn't have fit with Rush. They each played what their particular music called for, and they both did it very well. Bonham was a pioneer in what is now considered Heavy Metal, he is the most influential rock drummer of all time. To just blow him off as a overated drummer is ridiculous. Bonham was very much an all around drummer he played on a lot of different albums from other artists. For example one of Paul McCartney's solo albums he played on a couple of tracks, wouldn't you say McCartney's music is a lot different then Zeppelin's? If he was not a flexible drummer he would have never been asked to play. And you also say he plays the same thing over and over, well I have listened to a lot of The Who and Moon played the same structure in most of their songs. You can hear the same fills in a lot of their music too. Alex Van Halen praises Bonham as a huge influence on him, in fact you can hear a lot of Bonham fills in some of their old stuff. And how many times have we heard massive tom rolls from Peart, or the cowbell solo? Drummers create their own style and stick with fills that work for them, and the drummers you have listed are no different.

[classicrocker]

Led Zeppelin was the band that got me hooked on rock&roll. John Bonham was the drummer that made me want to learn. I love what everyone has to say about him and even if his style isn't exactly your cup of tea, everyone can certainly respect his talent and his dedication to his craft. He played every single show with the utmost intensity and his contributions to the world of music are, in my opinion, invaluable.

yeah bonzo!!!

[drumslaveDave]

Being lucky to see Zep play not once but 3 times, I'd have to say ANY LIVE Moby Dick would make your head hurt for a week or 2 and not from the volume level but tryin to figure out what he was doing..

NEVER MIND THE POST BELOW HE NEVER SAW ZEP LIVE

Did you know Zep was an improv/jam band? Check out more than just the studio cuts and Song Remains the Same and you'll see that. Find some bootleg stuff or some LIVE BBC stuff you'll get the drift.

[NUTHA JASON]

bonzo's montreaux is a good snapshot of his creativity, signature sound and grooves ability. it is a far superior solo than moby dick in terms of its musicality.

j

[NUTHA JASON]

its strikes me that a_rockdrummer is a troll and i will be watching him. alex and kieth would not, and have not touched bonham. far more drummers today cite john as their hero. there are clearly reasons. besides if you think drumming is some sort of ranked competition then you are very much in need of a reality check and perhaps ten years of growing up time. bonham was a legend and an innovator.
same old crap over and over again


shows that you have a poorly developed ear for music. how is fool in the rain in any way related to good times bad times or houses of the holy.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

bonham played jazz, bigband, samba and other latin grooves, blues, rock, dixie, bluegrass, heavy, light, pop and also a lot of stuff that doesn't fit into any nameable genre.
you really shot yourself in the foot here.

my forum rule stands:
DON'T BASH BONZO....EVER.

J

[Bernhard]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer


Ha ha - good one!

(if somebody takes this serious: you didn't got it - was a joke of course)

and don't bash Ringo!!!

Bernhard

[helldrummer]

i h8 jon bohnam and all these olden day jazz drummers they are not fast and joey jordison is better coz he is fast and he plays good music not jazz like jon bohnam or flow mornier (who is crap) tray cool is better than john coz at least he isn't an olden day jazz drummer who plays jazz i h8 my parents

[NUTHA JASON]

lol. you also hate drummers who only have two tomtoms amd three cymbals...what's wrong with them? they are rich and famous so why don't they buy a gong, 23 cymbals and 14 tomtoms.
j

now back on topic a_rockdrummer, i eagerly await your response.

[Sonor]

Love Bonzo... my favorite drummer. In My Time of Dying is my favorite Bonham tune. I'm surprised no one mentioned Trampled Underfoot when talking about Bonhams right foot. For me the most impressive of all Zep tunes with regards to this.

[drummerstix_au]

How the hell could anyone say Bonzo was a crap drummer!!!!

Thats like saying you dont beleive in GOD!!!!

Bonzo's groove and timing was impeccable. His style and the way he played the heel toe on his feet.. especially in the Imigrant Song is amazing.

I cant see how someone who has twice the number of drums could blow bonham off the stage because bonham didnt need thousands of toms or kick drums to get a massive sound.

Anyway thats my opinion.

Andy

[Stu_Strib]

Good Times Bad Times, The Ocean, Fool in the Rain...

[Steady Freddy]

Bring it on home
Heart breaker
When the leavy breaks
Fool in the rain

[pdp 9091]

Below is 4 sound files that i got from another drummerworld member (Bonzo91). These sound files are rare and you prob cannot find them anywhere.....i got them off of a website Bonzo91 sent me and i took a few and put them on here.

these sound files are rare John Bonham drum clips of him playing in the recording studio (just the drums)....this is when zeppelin was in the process of recording in through the out door in the months of november and december 1978.

thanks Bonzo91!!!


http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/imgalb/B_InThroughTheOutDoor.jpg
http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JPJ_RP_JB_in_studio_1969_LZ-II_session.jpg

heres also a site that i found with alot of rare zeppelin pics

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/photo.htm

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_JM_Continental_Hyatt_House_LA_CA_21-22_aug_1971.jpg

[Donovan]

Man, his booming drum sound is almost frightening, not to mention those sounds he making in the first file, haha, thanks pdp and bonzo91 for the great clips.

-Donovan

[Dannar]

Yea these clips are a sweet find. I have somewhere around 23 total clips from the same sessions. I can't even remember where I got them it was so long ago. I think there may be another thread on here that has the rest, or maybe not, I don't remember.

[Bonzo91]

Thanks to you too i thought people really had to hear em

[jordanz]

Man, what is it about his playing? There's just so much force behind each stroke. I could listen to him play all day.

[pdp 9091]

u guys want me to post some more? because theres about 25 in all and ill post 5 more tonight if i have time

[pdp 9091]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

maybe the most ignorant thing ive ever heard on drummerworld ever...(except for fall out boy becoming the next beatles)....john bonham is the godfather of all rock drumming. u cant compare neil peart to bonham because theyre are soooooooooooo different when it comes to theyre technique and style......i mean soooooo far apart....alex van halen doesnt touch any of these guys and moon didnt own a hi hat so case closed

[Bonzo91]

Heres some other outtakes i stumbled over check em out...the weird thing is ledzeppelin.org is not a real website so how that works is a mystery lol.
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/multimedia/studioouttakes.htm

[iceneweb]

How the hell could anyone say Bonzo was a crap drummer!!!!

Thats like saying you dont beleive in GOD!!!!

Bonzo's groove and timing was impeccable. His style and the way he played the heel toe on his feet.. especially in the Imigrant Song is amazing.

I cant see how someone who has twice the number of drums could blow bonham off the stage because bonham didnt need thousands of toms or kick drums to get a massive sound.

Anyway thats my opinion.

Andy

Ummm . . . . i don't believe in god . . . . . but i do believe John Bonham brought more to rock drumming than any other drummer dead or alive . . . . . .

Ask 1000 drummers for their top ten, and JB will rank higher for more people than anyone else. Just read any drumming magazine - just about every pro or amateur interviewed lists JB as an influence.

[Raymond Bloom]

i havent seen anyone come close to bonhams right foot, except maybe jo jo mayer, but even then, there not as powerful as bonhams.

Actually I'd say:
1) you haven't seen Bonzo live
2) you haven't seen Jojo Mayer live ;-)
so you can't really compare them

Come on, there are plenty of people technically better than Bonzo, your idolizing him too much. That's like saying Buddy Rich was faster with one hand than most of the pros with both...
I'm 200% sure I would winn a battle of me (using both hands) vs Mike Mangini (just one hand :D )

John Bonham's ''weapons'' were awsome groove (oh man, that's a deeeeep pocket!!!)
and inovation!

[Dannar]

and moon didnt own a hi hat so case closed

He owned one. He used it in the studio, but live he didn't. That may seem weird to most drummers, but the way The Who played live it really fits quite nicely. Since the Who never really "grooves" the high hats are not really necessary. The Who is all about sheer energy, and when a drummer goes for energy most of the time he is on the crash, and Moon was pure energy.

[T_o_t_o]

Yes,please. Post more I have lost my Bonham clips.

[pdp 9091]

Heres some other outtakes i stumbled over check em out...the weird thing is ledzeppelin.org is not a real website so how that works is a mystery lol.
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/multimedia/studioouttakes.htm


ya i just came on here to post that website because i didnt know if u were going to because i knew it had to be posted....so much great stuff on there!

[pdp 9091]

HERE ARE 4 MORE OF THESE RARE CLIPS!!!

thanks bonzo91 again!

enjoy!

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_US_NP_ca_1978-04.jpg

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_US_NP_ca_1975-01.jpg

[Dunnett]

There are 22 snips from various studio sessions that have been floating around for years now. I received mine on a CD from a high profile drummer several years ago.

As poignant as they may be, there is actually another set of recordings known as "In Through the Outtakes" that I have on vinyl. It's more focused on time signatures / composition than straight studio takes. Imagine hearing Page explaining to Bonham how he should turn the beat around...hearing Bonham learning how to be the Bonham we know and love. Amazing stuff.

[Bonham to the moon]

ya that sites been around for a long time, i have all of them on cd. There truely amazing

[Bonham to the moon]

1) you haven't seen Bonzo live
2) you haven't seen Jojo Mayer live ;-)
so you can't really compare them


. . . . . .what does this have to with anything? haha thats like saying ummm you cant say that Neil Peart is a good drummer because you havent seen him live, all you ahve heard is his crappy studio work. . . . . ? and yes i havent seen bonham or jo jo mayer in person, but i have many live DVD's of both, and have all of bonhams studio work. Dont tell me that im idolizing him to much, bonham IMO is the greatest rock drummer of all time. Your comparison with the hands is totally irrelevant seeing as that in most cases drummers dont do rolls or fills with one hand. And when they do, like dennis chambers, people including myself find it amazing that they could do that with just one hand. Hearing tracks like Good Times, Bad Times im amazed, along with tons of other people that he could do that with just one foot.

[Raymond Bloom]

. . . . . .what does this have to with anything? haha thats like saying ummm you cant say that Neil Peart is a good drummer because you havent seen him live, all you ahve heard is his crappy studio work. . . . . ? and yes i havent seen bonham or jo jo mayer in person, but i have many live DVD's of both, and have all of bonhams studio work. Dont tell me that im idolizing him to much, bonham IMO is the greatest rock drummer of all time. Your comparison with the hands is totally irrelevant seeing as that in most cases drummers dont do rolls or fills with one hand. And when they do, like dennis chambers, people including myself find it amazing that they could do that with just one hand. Hearing tracks like Good Times, Bad Times im amazed, along with tons of other people that he could do that with just one foot.
What does it have to do with anything? I just corrected the thing you sayed about Bonham's and Jojo's bass drum speed. I haven't seen Bonzo live, but I have seen Jojo's bass drum technique from 2 feet distance. I have a video on my hdd where Jojo plays triplets @ about 180 bpm, could Bonham keep up with him? No way!
It really doesn't have anything to do with Bonham being a supeb drummer.

Bonham was all about awsome groove, thunderous sound and innovatice licks, technique wasn't his thing.

''Your comparison with the hands is totally irrelevant seeing as that in most cases drummers dont do rolls or fills with one hand.''
I never sayed anything about hand speed. That thing about Buddy and mangini was just speaking in similarities

And really, ''good times bad times'' is not THAT fast!

[Raymond Bloom]

you cant say that Neil Peart is a good drummer because you havent seen him live, all you ahve heard is his crappy studio work. . . . . ? and yes i havent seen bonham or jo jo mayer in person, but i have many live DVD's of both, and have all of bonhams studio work. .
some more things:
1) why do you think Neil Peart's studio work is crappy? :D
2) ''many live dvd's of both'' ?! ok, everything's clear about Bonham, but Jojo? The only dvd which as much as I know is out there with him is the Modern drummer festival 2005! Please tell me what other records do you have!

[Bonham to the moon]

some more things:
1) why do you think Neil Peart's studio work is crappy? :D
2) ''many live dvd's of both'' ?! ok, everything's clear about Bonham, but Jojo? The only dvd which as much as I know is out there with him is the Modern drummer festival 2005! Please tell me what other records do you have!

i was being sarcastic about peart. and i have that modern drummer DVD that he demonstrates his heel toe technique, and some of his studio work.

[Mr. Bananagrabber]

How the hell could anyone say Bonzo was a crap drummer!!!!

Thats like saying you dont beleive in GOD!!!!

No it isn't. Objectively speaking, Bonham definately wasn't a crap drummer. The other thing is a bit less cut and dried.

[ewanlaing]

i don't think he can ever be called a bad drummer in seriousness. he's excellent for sure, but after that it's opinion. i tend not to see him as the god-like drummer a lot of other people do, but it's because of my drumming tastes. he was incredible, no doubt about it.

[foghorn2]

here are some drummers that would crush john bonham.

Neil peart

alex van halen

keith moon.

these 3 drummers here are all around drummers,
john bonham was not a all around drummer

The truth is that those drummers you mentioned including Bonham are above and beyond the childlessness of trying to crush each other. What made them all great drummers is the fact that they always tried to play better for themselves and their bands. There is no "best" drummer or "best" cymbal or "best" drums. But there is the "best" as far as a person's taste goes. So if you have a "best" drummer, great for you, that does not mean they are really the "best" for everyone.

We should respect others opinion on who and what they admire and idolize. I for one do see Bonham as a drum god and I'm an agnostic.

Now if you were talking about a competition between the 4 drummers you mentioned, then you would have to ask them all to play the same exact stuff on the same exact equipment. In that case they would probably all pass the test. If you would ask the 4 to play each others stuff, on their own equipment, then each would be "better" on their own stuff.

[foghorn2]

Just to add to the above, could anyone picture Buddy Rich trying to play Neil Peart's solos, and then calling Buddy less of a drummer, and Neil the "BEST".

And then have Neil play "Driven to Tears" by Stewart Copeland, then stating that Stewart could "crush" them all!

[NUTHA JASON]

these last two posts rock.

now the case is closed. a_rockdrummer has dropped off the map and apparently has been shamed into silence.

let the good times bad times roll.

j

[osamasgoat5467]

He's definetley the best rock drummer ever. But in jazz and swing Buddy Rich was the master. Imagine Buddy Rich v. John Bonham in a drum battle. HAHA who do you think would have won?

[Bonham to the moon]

who do you think would have won?

Rich would have run out of the building saying he was too loud. he he

[foghorn2]

Imagine Buddy Rich v. John Bonham in a drum battle. HAHA who do you think would have won?

The one who didn't let their Ego get the best of them. I'd say Bonham.

[Bonzo91]

Bonhamt To The Moon What cd do you have what is it called?

[Bonham to the moon]

i didnt buy it in a store, i burned a copy from the site with all of em on there.

[Dannar]

I had found a website that was the jackpot for zeppelin out takes and live shows. I don't know how I ever found it, but I'll try to find it again. Any Zeppelin fan would wet themselves there was so much stuff!

I'll see if I can find it, I may not be able to though, I know I have a link to it on my other computer, but it's 3 hours away, so it may take a week or so. Patience friends!

[Bonzo91]

Oh i see i burned a copy too but i had a nother one cant find it now

[Davidb59]

Where can I find "In thro' the Outtakes"?

[drummer chick]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO I can't open these files to hear the wonderful Bonham.

Can someone tell me how please?

Thanks

[Davidb59]

Right click on the item and then click "save target as". This will let you save in, say, My Music (or anywhere else you like). When it's saved go to My Music(or wherever) and left click and it should open using your default media player.

[drummer chick]

Hi Davidb,
Many thanks , I've got it now.......

Fab sound, pity there's no video clip to go with it !

Or is there and I just can't get it??????

Thanks again

[foghorn2]

Man, do those drums and cymbals sound soooo geooooowd!
The drummer ain't that bad of a singer either.

[nhzoso]

Cracks me up the way he yells and moans through some of em...LOL.. He used primarily paiste's right?

[pdp 9091]

ya hes always used paistes...2002's and giants beats and even one 602 some time or another

[Bonzo91]

602's were really good cymbals your lucky to get yourself one of those...

[pcmckay]

A lot of drummers write him off as someone who just played loud with no musical quality to his drumming. Look beyond the massive tripletts and listen to the little things that he did and that is what is awesome about his playing. The work between the hi-hat, snare, and bass drum is incredible, such a great groove. The man understood dynamics and light and shade. He had great chops and added so much to the music but never overplayed. Not a techincal wizard by todays standards but he played from the heart. I feel that is why we are still talking about him today. He played a style that everyone can feel and understand. Most of the technical drummers out there today I can listen to for about five minutes and then I want to move on to something else. But Bonham I keep coming back to and never get tired of listening to him.

[Bonham to the moon]

very nicely said pcmckay. after reading his brothers book, i have now come to love him as person, he was always a family man first, and cared for his fans. His death was tragedy and am saddened to think of the great things he could have done. Think about instructional DVD's featuring John Bonham, the king of Rock. . . . . .mind-blowing! There are way to many secrets to his drumming, not one expert could ever pick him apart.

[bonham990]

Bonham is the best, the greatest, top cheese, drumming God etc. no two ways about it after reading his brother book on him "thunder of drums" and i cant think any other way other then him being the absolute best. Theres no two ways about it i wont argue it because i know that he is the Greatest.

[mikeybbdrummin]

I would say, Fool in the rain, Good times and Out on the tiles come to mind first.

[Shamoo]

Four Sticks is awesome, Poor Tom is really cool, and so is Custard Pie. Good Times Bad Times.. hell they're all aewsome!

[beatsMcGee]

fool in the rain for me

[BellsOfRhymney]

Rock And Roll ...never get tired of that big splashy hat.

Ozone Baby ...from Coda. Dig it when he explodes with that thing he does!

Dancing Days ...my other favorite ever!

Actually, I like every track, and every note that Bonham played.

[rendezvous_drummer]

When the Levee Breaks, Stairway to Heaven and Kashmir are my three favorite tracks.

[chris--byrne]

Fool in the rain, Bring it on home, When the leeve breaks and of corse Moby dick are my favorites. I can't choose between them.

[Drums558]

Fool In The Rain, The Ocean, and Levee Breaks.......
Lately I have to say all of them, I going through about my 30th Bonzo infactuation cycle. Just finished the book "A Thunder of Drums" and have only been listening to Zepplin for about 2 weeks now. Picking a favorite is kinda hard for me.

[Lingenfelter Twin Turbo]

God there are so many! But I would have to say Nobody's fault but mine and Rock and Roll.

[dothecrunge]

Being lucky to see Zep play not once but 3 times, I'd have to say ANY LIVE Moby Dick would make your head hurt for a week or 2 and not from the volume level but tryin to figure out what he was doing..

NEVER MIND THE POST BELOW HE NEVER SAW ZEP LIVE

Did you know Zep was an improv/jam band? Check out more than just the studio cuts and Song Remains the Same and you'll see that. Find some bootleg stuff or some LIVE BBC stuff you'll get the drift.

Which shows?

20 characters

[Phrase]

Good Times Bad Times - those broken triplets are a nightmare to get right (unless you cheat and use a double pedal!)

Check out my Led Zep tribute band's clips here (http://rhythmonkey.dmusic.com/)

[BellsOfRhymney]

Nobody's fault but mine
Gawd I forgot that ...definitely add that one.

[pdp 9091]

ooo man....so many great grooves....i kind of like his blues stuff the best...."since ive been loving you" is a simple song to play but it just sticks out to me for some reason....i just love that "bluesey" feel that goes along with that song....and of course on the dvd the Denmark Radio part of the dvd on the first dvd in the clips......communication breakdown.....dazed and confused....babe im gonna leave you.....and how many more times.....just those 4 songs its my favorite on the dvd....sooooo crazy with those fills on dazed and confused.....and even on how many more times....(on how many more times if u notice towards the end where the drums and the guitar comes back in bonham does his fills and starts on the ride and jimmy and john paul just look at each other confused for a second and then they come in and go back into the song.)......and the fill at the end of achilles last stand on the dvd is crazy

but in order my favorite bonham grooves

1. when the levee breaks
2. Since ive been loving you
3. dazed and confused

[pcmckay]

The tunes I enjoy playing to are:
1. OUT ON THE TILES

2. MISTY MOUNTAIN HOP

3. FOOL IN THE RAIN

4. ACHILLES LAST STAND

5. THE CRUNGE

[theduke86]

Man, you Bohnam-ites need to chill. John Bohnam is my favorite rock drummer and in my top ten drummers of all time. That being said, his chops are not insurmountable. Most of his stuff is pretty basic conceptually. He pulls his right foot stuff off cleanly and extremely effectively, and all in a great pocket- I love his drumming. For pure chops, many, many drummers have bested Bonzo. At that time, for example, Tony Williams could probably double his right foot (let's not even talk about the left foot) dexterity. Does that make John Bohnam worse? No way! He's a legendary drummer! His work stands alone despite that people have done better.
What I love about him is his groove- he's got one of the best pockets I can think about.
It has been stated earlier in this thread that John Bohnam cannot be analyzed because there are way too many secrets in his drumming. Not so. I've heard some drummers do an awesome John Bohnam impression. I don't think there is any drummer that is stylistically untouchable, except Elvin Jones. I've heard two drummers do a good Elvin impression. Roy Haynes and Ian Froman (who's a teacher out at berklee- incredible player and teacher) could both cop that vibe well- but not exactly like Elvin.
Bonzo has been copped many times. He's such an influence, I can't even begin to name some of the drummers. I'll start. Jeff Porcaro, Carlos Vega, Abe Laboriel Jr. , Josh Freese, Simon Phillips and MANY others could do a Bonzo impression very closely. I've never heard them do an intentional Bonzo impression, but I'm positive they could if they wanted. Nearly EVERY good rock drummer in the world today has gone through a John Bohnam worship stage. Every good drummer been checked out and analyzed. Actually, John Bohnam's been analyzed more than any drummer except possibly Steve Gadd or Tony Williams. If you transcribe and listen to enough of a player, you can sound very close to him after a while. If you are dedicated, have the help of a teacher if you need it and if you go through and transcribe the player's body of work in a logical order, and study his influences, you WILL end up sounding like him.
You want to sound like Vinnie? Go through the Gary Chaffee books, get great drum-corps hands, transcribe a ton of Tony Williams and Alphonze Mouzon, then get the new Randy Waldman book that'll give you Vinnie exercises and transcriptions. Then go and transcribe all the Zappa, Sting and Karizma stuff. Then, go develop ADD. Then you'll probably sound a lot like Vinnie and people will love you. Five years and thousands of hours of practice later.I can go through a few drummers like this- Tony Williams, Dennis Chambers, Weckl, and so on- I can even go through horn players like this. Want to know how Chris Potter got as good as he did? Go transcribe John Coltrane, Sonny Stitt, Wayne Shorter and Michael Brecker. And so on.
You want to be John Bonham? Get a nasty right foot, learn your rudiments, learn to play blues and old school rock extremely well, then transcribe all the beats and fills you like from his performances.
None of these guys, except for Buddy Rich or Elvin Jones is untouchable. Buddy because he's a chops virtuoso and Elvin for his concept of time. You can analyze Elvin's solos easily enough- it's his time playing that gets me. Likewise, given very hard study for an endured period of time, you can learn to play exactly like John Bohnam.

[Bernhard]

theduke 86:

Y E S


Bernhard

[Bonham to the moon]

Of course TheDuke, this all your opinion. With every drummer that has ever been, theres going to be a guy that comes out that is faster, and can imitate them. But what it comes down to is originality. Every solo that has ever been played can be stripped down and imitated, but its the person who created it that needs the credit. A guy whos been playing for a couple of months might be able to play the groove from When the Levee breaks, but it was Bonham who heard the rest of the song and layed it down originally. i know that Bonham didnt have the greatest chops of all time, there may be a few cats that can play Pat's Delight, but its Bonham that created the masterpiece. You say that Elvin Jones cannot be imitated stylistically, how so? i've heard many people lay down a groove that imitates Elvin. You also say that those who have gotten close to Elvin's playing still cant get it exactly. I've yet to hear anyone get Bonhams groove exactly, unless they added effects in the studio. And if anyone does get it exactly, as with any other drummer, it is because they have studied and transcribed their playing, not because they have come up with it themselves. If you studied any drummer for long enough and transcribed their songs note for note, than you can imitate them exactly, even Rich, Jones.

[pdp 9091]

o come on jimmy....u packed the wrong set

http://ledzeppelin.alexreisner.com/graphics/photos/als/03.jpg

[theduke86]

Of course TheDuke, this all your opinion. With every drummer that has ever been, theres going to be a guy that comes out that is faster, and can imitate them. But what it comes down to is originality. Every solo that has ever been played can be stripped down and imitated, but its the person who created it that needs the credit. A guy whos been playing for a couple of months might be able to play the groove from When the Levee breaks, but it was Bonham who heard the rest of the song and layed it down originally. i know that Bonham didnt have the greatest chops of all time, there may be a few cats that can play Pat's Delight, but its Bonham that created the masterpiece. You say that Elvin Jones cannot be imitated stylistically, how so? i've heard many people lay down a groove that imitates Elvin. You also say that those who have gotten close to Elvin's playing still cant get it exactly. I've yet to hear anyone get Bonhams groove exactly, unless they added effects in the studio. And if anyone does get it exactly, as with any other drummer, it is because they have studied and transcribed their playing, not because they have come up with it themselves. If you studied any drummer for long enough and transcribed their songs note for note, than you can imitate them exactly, even Rich, Jones.
Uh, well, it's actually not a subjective matter of opinion. I wasn't really calling into question John Bohnam's originality, at all. Nor his greatness- just because someone can be imitated doesn't mean someone isn't great- in fact I think if someone is imitated it can mean right away they are great. I was actually refuting your illogical statement that there are too many secrets behind Bonzo's drumming to figure his stuff out. This is very untrue. If you play along to records enough, or loops of Bonzo grooves, and figure out his chops, you will figure out Bonzo. You can't really, in respect, disagree with me, because this is the way it has always been done. Abe Laboriel, I'm sure, can do an amazing John Bohnam impression. I can clearly see and hear it in his playing. You're just taking my remarks as being disparaging, because, you know, anything less than TOTAL worship of John Bohnam is not right.

In respect to Elvin Jones, Elvin Jones is untouchable because of the way he could yank things in and out of time and come back to the beat. He could reef on beats so hard and come right back in on time. I've never heard anyone with the exception of Roy Haynes who is able to play so elastically. Roy can't even do it as well as Elvin. His concept of time is alien- no one has any idea how he thinks about groove or time therefore no one can figure out how he plays the way he does. There are some Elvin things that are very doable- but not most of the more extreme stuff. I haven't heard anyone do the stuff that he does. With Bohnam, or any other great groove drummer, I can understand what they're playing... example "Okay, Bohnam is counting quarter notes and emphasizing 2 and 4 on Rock and Roll". Or, "Okay Bohnam is emphasizing offbeats on Immigrant Song" to name a couple. If you can get the beat and time and feel it like the drummer is, you can play it exactly like him. No one knows what Elvin was thinking. When he played swing he grunted offbeats- you can hear him on some albums doing that loudly. But for the harder stuff, drum scholars are without a clue.
As for Buddy, he had an X factor- a once in a generation virtuositic abillity that hasn't been equaled. He is the Mozart, Paganini, Parker or Gould of our instrument- he will not be equaled.

[finnhiggins]

I'm with our man TheDuke. It is entirely possible to imitate Bonham. Here's how you do it:

1) Transcribe enough that you understand his phrasing and approach to orchestration of grooves and fills.
2) Sit down with a sequencer and, by means of looping and programming sequenced drums over the top, work out exactly where Bonham is placing his notes relative to the beat.
3) Work on your tuning and technique. Tune open, hit the drums nice and hard (but without hitting "through the drum") in the centre of the head and use the right drum sizes. Spend time just hitting drums trying to work on your touch, ignoring any issues of what parts you're going to play.

If you understand those three attributes of Bonham's playing - his touch/tone, his timing and his part selection - then you're going to be able to imitate it given enough practice, recording and analysis of your own playing.

Elvin is considerably more tricky because, as TheDuke86 said, his ability to bend time is as big a part of his feel as his tone or part selection. It's not hard to sit down and work out what Elvin is playing, or how his drums sound. It's virtually impossible to work out a logical "what-would-Elvin-do" formula for his timing, which is what makes him so hard to imitate.

[jonescrusher]

You want to sound like Vinnie? Go through the Gary Chaffee books, get great drum-corps hands, transcribe a ton of Tony Williams and Alphonze Mouzon, then get the new Randy Waldman book that'll give you Vinnie exercises and transcriptions. Then go and transcribe all the Zappa, Sting and Karizma stuff. Then, go develop ADD. Then you'll probably sound a lot like Vinnie and people will love you. Five years and thousands of hours of practice later.I can go through a few drummers like this- Tony Williams, Dennis Chambers, Weckl, and so on- I can even go through horn players like this.

This is a great piece of writing, Duke.

[theduke86]

Thanks Finn and jones....
My one big beef with people is when they are so totally in love with a person they say no one could ever play like him again. Not so. It's easy to see where people come from! Everyone has their influences. Even musical prodigies like Charlie Parker, John Coltrane... One can see clearly that John Coltrane copped Dexter Gordon, Charlie Parker played like Lester Young, a little bit. Even though both were absolute virtuosos and will NEVER be outdone, you can still imitate. There are a few one can't. But I see where these guys are coming from.

[fixmejesus]

I'm with our man TheDuke. It is entirely possible to imitate Bonham. Here's how you do it:

1) Transcribe enough that you understand his phrasing and approach to orchestration of grooves and fills.
2) Sit down with a sequencer and, by means of looping and programming sequenced drums over the top, work out exactly where Bonham is placing his notes relative to the beat.
3) Work on your tuning and technique. Tune open, hit the drums nice and hard (but without hitting "through the drum") in the centre of the head and use the right drum sizes. Spend time just hitting drums trying to work on your touch, ignoring any issues of what parts you're going to play.

If you understand those three attributes of Bonham's playing - his touch/tone, his timing and his part selection - then you're going to be able to imitate it given enough practice, recording and analysis of your own playing.

Elvin is considerably more tricky because, as TheDuke86 said, his ability to bend time is as big a part of his feel as his tone or part selection. It's not hard to sit down and work out what Elvin is playing, or how his drums sound. It's virtually impossible to work out a logical "what-would-Elvin-do" formula for his timing, which is what makes him so hard to imitate.

OK, then go ahead and try it and post it here under "your playing". You guys are just full of it. Prove me wrong.

[theduke86]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech.html
That's a guy doing Bonzo vibe very well who isn't even that well known. Plus he looks quite young! Check out Abe Laboriel- ANYTHING for a huge Bohnam influence.
I love how I throw the old reason bug into the debate, give reasons why it's easier to reproduce Bohnam than Elvin or Buddy and then you tell me "No, Bohnam R00LZ0R5 so no one can reproduce it. That video isn't a pure reproduction as I'm sure some would be capable of. One thing's for sure. It's a lot closer to Bohnam than anyone's come to Elvin. Except maybe Froman.
Once again, I'm in NO WAY disparaging John Bohnam- I love his drumming. I think his stuff is awesome. I think it's much, much easier to cop the feel than Elvin or Buddy. As is Tony Williams. Or Max Roach. I know where those guys are coming from. I don't know how Elvin came about. Or Buddy. No one knows! This doesn't necessarily make them better- that argument is stupid and I don't want to have it. It makes them much harder to authentically imitate than Bonzo. And imitating Bonzo takes years of study. Concentrated, hard study. But it can be done with the proper methodology and proof. There are a lot of guys who can sound like Bonham clones. Same thing goes for drummers like Gadd, Tony, Weckl, Max. Any of the drummers who have been academized and analyzed can be imitated. There are parts of Elvin Jones' drumming that we will most likely never understand. If anyone finds out the secret to his time playing, please let me know so I can pay you one million dollars for a lesson. Thank you.

[aahznightsky]

http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/johnbonhamtech.html
That's a guy doing Bonzo vibe very well who isn't even that well known.


Dude, maybe you shoulda converted that solo (or i could do the full version I have the dvd) to just the audio, placed it along real bonham solo recordings, and we coulda played Guess the Bonzo!

[Bonzo91]

ya i probably have watched that dvd 4 million times...lol....but in my opinion i think he was at his greatest on the second dvd because he was more mature in his style of drumming- more controlled and even tamed (if that makes sense)....dont get me wrong bonzo was soooooo great on the first disc but i think as he got older and matured more from the 21 year old he was on the first disc to the 30 year old he was at Knebworth...he picked up more of controll with his fills/technique. Just take the fills in Kashmir for example....totaly amazing....but all in all....awesome dvd!

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_Royal_Albert_Hall_London_9_jan_1970.jpg

http://www.ledzeppelin.ru/pa/im/JB_Knebworth_UK_aug_1979-01.jpg

I kinda of like him when he was about 21 he was juest out there lol and he looked cooler as he began to grow older he started looking like a grizly lol. Though as years went by he began to have more control. And i still think his one of the greatest drummers of all time.

[mattsmith]

exactly, same goes for Elvin. If you can show me some drumming that i would mistake for Bonham, then i'll shut up.
No, I really don't think you would. It's like you guys have some secret handshake or something.

All anybody was sayin' anyway was that Bonham stuff could be analyzed and imitated. So can Mel Lewis. So can alot of Gadd. It doesn't mean it's not great. And naw, Its not an opinion that Bonham's music can be imitated. It's fact. Every time I read that, you turn it into your own put down while at the same time, you acuse the other guy of sayin' how he disrespects you. Its nothing but your own code for saying "you're just not cool enough to get it.' Give me a break.

I think this is more about how too many Bonham fanatics don't seem to see the existence of ANY other great drummer. I mean you get great explanations of another viewpoint that even then still praises your guy, and all you ever say is "oh yeah" or "prove it to me." Duke and Finn explained it to you with perfect logic. If you disagree prove it to them man. This is a discussion forum, not religious conversion.

You know, I used to think how funny it was watchin' these guys like elvin4ever talkin' about the godlike qualities of Buddy Rich. But you know what I see? All those Rich fanatics are all over this forum talkin' like experts on the matters of all drummers not just Buddy Rich.

Look Bonham is great for sure. I love his playing too. But come on.

[Bonzo91]

If you can't tell the difference between the real Bonzo and the Immitation than your no Bonham fan. How can you not, even though he can be immitated you can still tell, bonhams always got that certain tone and everytimr you hear him youd feel thunder rudshing through you, but when its an immitator you can tell they tend to play softer or have a much different style.

[BellsOfRhymney]

There is no arguing Bonham's greatness, total class and taste, every song, every lick, and it all holds up today like no other ...amazing how good he was.

[NUTHA JASON]

until i ran into drummerworld i thought i was the biggest bonzo fan around. having read all of the above posts i can put my two cents in here...

NO DRUMMER IS UNTOUCHABLE.

they said everest could not be climbed. then some one climbed it and now many people have climbed it. muscles, bones and brains...bonzo had them, elvin had them and i have them...we all do. it is ludicrous to suggest that ANY drummer cannot be emulated, or even far surpassed. if one person can do something, someone somewhere else, some other time will be able to do it and even perhaps do it fractionally better. Edmund hillary climbed the mountain, then others came along and did it faster, better and sometimes even with some sort of handicap.

all that remains then is to celebrate the pioneers and their creative spirits. bonzo rules for his own defined set of reasons. so too does elvin and buddy.

in my opinion i do not rank these three gentlemen against eachother. i love bonzo's work and respect the other two for theirs.

j

[BellsOfRhymney]

Right, they were all different and all inovative in their time. Krupa probably wouldn't have been as effective for Zeppelin, and Bonzo might not have been the entertainer that Krupa was.

[mattsmith]

until i ran into drummerworld i thought i was the biggest bonzo fan around. having read all of the above posts i can put my two cents in here...

NO DRUMMER IS UNTOUCHABLE.

they said everest could not be climbed. then some one climbed it and now many people have climbed it. muscles, bones and brains...bonzo had them, elvin had them and i have them...we all do. it is ludicrous to suggest that ANY drummer cannot be emulated, or even far surpassed. if one person can do something, someone somewhere else, some other time will be able to do it and even perhaps do it fractionally better. Edmund hillary climbed the mountain, then others came along and did it faster, better and sometimes even with some sort of handicap.

all that remains then is to celebrate the pioneers and their creative spirits. bonzo rules for his own defined set of reasons. so too does elvin and buddy.

in my opinion i do not rank these three gentlemen against eachother. i love bonzo's work and respect the other two for theirs.

j
This sums it up just right. And it came from one of the "Bonham is my favorite" supporters who has an open mind about the entire world of drumming. When I see someone try to set up guidelines tellin' me that if I don't do X, Y or Z then I'm no real Bonham fan, that's no more than taking the path of some radical cult, except in not as harmful a way. And I don't think it does the memory of Bonham justice because it causes people to argue about stuff that shouldn't have to be argued.

[wontgetfooledagain]

Instrumentalists will always be able to get better. Once something is recorded and released then some other person can hear that and expand on it or simply be inspired by it and do something even greater. It's like my opinion on Hendrix. He was (and is) a great guitarist. However, once he recorded and released albums, anyone who had the talent could expand on what he did. Now we have Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, John Petrucci, and a bunch of others who may not actually have similar styles, but were probably influenced by Hendrix even if it was indirectly by someone who was influenced by him.

[Bonzo]

One other thing that doesn't ever seem to get taken into account on these threads: Bonham died at age 32. That's it. His whole career was defined by that age. You can't compare what Elvin Jones (76), Buddy Rich (69), or Tony Williams (51) did in relationship to Bonham, because they played and learned and were inspired by each other for decades longer. Bonham would be around 58 years old today, and I can't even imagine how much more his playing would have evolved in that time. That's why it's silly to make comparisons, unless all things are equal. And they usually aren't.

[finnhiggins]

One other thing that doesn't ever seem to get taken into account on these threads: Bonham died at age 32. That's it. His whole career was defined by that age. You can't compare what Elvin Jones (76), Buddy Rich (69), or Tony Williams (51) did in relationship to Bonham, because they played and learned and were inspired by each other for decades longer.

That would only be true if we were attempting to compare drummers and their career achievements. We're not. Tony Williams was raised because of the issue of foot speed. Tony was pulling off things with his right foot that make Good Times, Bad Times look like a stroll in the park back in the 1960s and early 1970s, while Tony was in his twenties.

As for the usual, predictable round of "You can't say that about Bonham" / "You guys are so up yourselves" or whatever... come on guys, play the ball, not the man. Bonham was a great drummer, he is one of my favourite rock drummers and indeed one of my favourite drummers of all time. I would not trivialise what he achieved in his (short) career. But he's not, objectively, technically better than a whole load of drummers who were his contemporaries. And his playing is not, objectively, something that is impossible to analyse.

If people stopped making stupid claims for Bonham that are well into the realm of hyperbole then I suspect this thread would cool down a lot.

[NUTHA JASON]

sometimes i get embarassed for the hyperbonzoites.

[Dannar]

sometimes i get embarassed for the hyperbonzoites.

Amen to that.

Amen

[pdp 9091]

Ok, Bonham is probably my favorite drummer. But I'm not going to come into this discussion with a closed mind. Of course Bonham will always be the grandfather of rock drummers because he was a pioneer. He inspired so many people to become drummers and inspired current drummers in the 70's. These drummers then took his material, studied it, worked it in with their own and expanded their ability. Bonham doesnt have the best chops, i agree with that, and i also agree that he doesnt have the greatest foot speed (great but there are drummers that are faster). But what I'm saying is anyone that studies his work long enough and who has the right amount of skill can mimick or copy a groove that he did, but can they be great enough to CREATE their own lick that surpasses those of Bonhams? Its 10X easier to copy a drum groove rather than to create one yourself (as mentioned in the Buddy rich vs. Bonham thread). Bonhams style of playing had a huge variety in the lines of styles of music. (rock, jazz, blues). He incorporated those styles into his grooves and came up with his own style of playing. No other drummer sounds like Bonham (unless they are trying to copy him). He had his own unique style that hasn't been matched ever sinced (but many have copied). To look at and compare Bonham to Elvin is like comparing apples to oranges. Two completley different drummers and they should be appreactiated both for what they have done to the drumming world and theyre contributions. Elvin contributed greatley to jazz and Bonham contributed greatley to Rock. Its as simple as that. But if someone is going to come on and start saying "oh bonham is such a god...bla bla bla" then this isnt the place for you. These people have never heard someone intelligently critique Bonham before like finnhiggins and theduke have on this thread and to them in theyre mind its totaly wrong because theyve only seen Bonham as a 100% god. Try to be more open minded when it comes to appreaciating drummers and youll expand more in your drumming ability.

[Bonzo91]

To me that Jim Roman guy is far from sounding like bonham. Theres such a big difference.

[Bonham to the moon]

I'm saying is anyone that studies his work long enough and who has the right amount of skill can mimick or copy a groove that he did, but can they be great enough to CREATE their own lick that surpasses those of Bonhams?

this is the point i was trying to get at.

[theduke86]

Nutha Jason- Thanks for summing it up so well and eloquently as par usual for you- You will all notice I didn't say it was impossible to be either Elvin or Buddy, just extremely difficult and very, very, very few people have figured it out. Not even ones who have studied said drummer intensely for two decades or more (Froman). I'm sure it can be done by someone though.
I am in no way comparing them to Bonzo in terms of greatness. I have said this numerous times. I don't want to have that argument because it's not fair to either three of them. Apples and oranges and mangos. However, I can compare individual difficulty of learning their styles. I think. I love all three of them. Elvin the most, Bonzo close to that, Buddy Rich a little further down the list. So, I think the hyper-bonzoites perhaps need to chill a little bit and think about this rationally and logically- you'll pretty much realise that I'm right once you do.

Edit: bonhamtothemoon- You are DEFINETLY right about that. John Bohnam had a signature sound and style that was unique, original, entertaining and a joy to listen to. It's why I , among MANY others (including yourselves) gravitate to him so much for rock drumming. I don't think I ever called into question his greatness. You shouldn't feel a need to defend him. Just because I said that Elvin and Buddy were harder to imitate doesn't mean that Bohnam isn't awesome too. For another example, Tony Williams, Dennis Chambers and Billy Cobham are easier to imitate than Elvin Jones or Buddy. Elvin for his time concept, Buddy for pure fire. You'll notice my favorite drummer in the whole wide world is Tony Williams. In other words, this is no strike against John Bohnam. In terms of style, look at the company that he's in, in terms of learning difficulty, right? Get what I'm saying?

[NUTHA JASON]

You shouldn't feel a need to defend him.

precisely... if ever you do get this urge then here is my precription:

get off the computer, put on headphones, crank the volume and listen to your favourite led zep. when you are confronted with THAT drumming you will be reminded how undeniable it is and how little it needs to be defended.

j

[theduke86]

Man NJ, every time I listen to Fool In The Rain, it does it for me. What a great groove. That ghost note concept developed out of a vacuum. Awesome drumming.

[pdp 9091]

Man NJ, every time I listen to Fool In The Rain, it does it for me. What a great groove. That ghost note concept developed out of a vacuum. Awesome drumming.


for me i pop in the dvd and watch the Denmarks Radio clip....dazed and confused...how many more times...those 2 songs hes such a beast on the drums its crazy

[ewanlaing]

i feel that led zepplin as a band were perfect for each other.
i only just realised just now but imagine if keith moon and john bonham had been in each others band!

[KLittle123]

Man NJ, every time I listen to Fool In The Rain, it does it for me. What a great groove. That ghost note concept developed out of a vacuum. Awesome drumming.

I agree, that drumming is friggin sweet in my book.

[Crust]

Why can't I view the new John Bonham videos? I can hear the music, but the videos won't play. Any suggestions on what I might do, or is the site just broken?

[Fur drummer]

No the site is not broken, you need Quick Time 7 for Windows XP to play the new videos.

[pdp 9091]

videos work fine for me...but i dont need the bonham page for the videos...i got that dvd ;) if you dont have it you should get the dvd....its pretty awesome....maybe because you cant see the videos on the page because you might need to download the latest version of Quicktime.

[Crust]

I have the double DVD. Just wondering about the site. Thanks.

[2 Liter]

I really think Moby Dick is the greatest solo of all time, and Fool in the Rain is the greatest shuffle.

Does anyone know the exact setup that he used for the tours? Any one of them would work.

[pdp 9091]

http://www.griptoad.com/JBKITS.html

all his kits are on that page


he used ludwig obviously

mostly

26" bass
14" Snare
14" rack tom (sometimes 13 and sometimes 15)
16" floor tom
18" floor tom

(sometimes instead of the 16 and 18 floor toms he would use 18 and 20 inch floor toms...at least thats wut ive heard.)

[Bonham to the moon]

You are DEFINETLY right about that. John Bohnam had a signature sound and style that was unique, original, entertaining and a joy to listen to. It's why I , among MANY others (including yourselves) gravitate to him so much for rock drumming. I don't think I ever called into question his greatness. You shouldn't feel a need to defend him. Just because I said that Elvin and Buddy were harder to imitate doesn't mean that Bohnam isn't awesome too. For another example, Tony Williams, Dennis Chambers and Billy Cobham are easier to imitate than Elvin Jones or Buddy. Elvin for his time concept, Buddy for pure fire. You'll notice my favorite drummer in the whole wide world is Tony Williams. In other words, this is no strike against John Bohnam. In terms of style, look at the company that he's in, in terms of learning difficulty, right? Get what I'm saying?

yes, i do get what your saying. Its just your first few posts, they struck me like you were saying Bonham could be easily imitated. I am a big bonham fan, but i dont think of myself as a fan thats blind to reality, i know that Bonham didnt have the best licks of all time, and i do know that he will be upstaged, but hes my personal favorite because of his originality, and in his time he could lay down a groove harder than anybody, plus the guys he was playing with helped a bit too. Im not going to argue anymore about people sounding exactly like him, but to my knowledge i havent heard anyone do what he did.

[gr82bagn]

BTTM,

but to my knowledge I haven’t heard anyone do what he did.

I agree, the man had something special and to those who loved his playing he was definably the master of his rock and roll domain, second to none. JOHN BONHAM, JOHN HENRY BONHAM, MOBY DICK DICK DICK DICK, ta ta ta datdatdat tatdatdat ta dadadada
Sorry I got carried away.

[Wormsrock]

Two Words: Moby Dick. Bonham influenced many drummers throughout the ages and is a drum god, Bonham stands alone with onlythe likes of Keith Moon and Neil Peart.

[ewanlaing]

Two Words: Moby Dick. Bonham influenced many drummers throughout the ages and is a drum god, Bonham stands alone with onlythe likes of Keith Moon and Neil Peart.
the live version of moby dick is good (if far too long) but the cd version really seemed like a waste to me. the guitar riff is so good, and it seems like the drums had no structure, no rhythm and not very much feeling to it.
don't get me wrong, bonham is incredible in all zepplin songs, but i reall think that on the album, moby dick was his worst moment.
it's my style though. i prefer more musical solos, like ginger bakers toad at the (fairly) recent royal albert hall gigs, or keith carlock, or steve gadd. the solo on the videos page for moby dick is incredible, but again it's too long on the dvd and it feels repeated.

[pdp 9091]

I just think you kids are hyping him more relentlessly than there is any factual basis for.

i agree with this....kids that come onto here that idolize bonham and worship him as god have not seen any critizism towards him ever before (this probably being the first time) Theduke said a while back that these "worshippers" see that not 100% thinking upon bonham as a god is wrong. You can compare bonham to the beatles. Beatles were probably the biggest band (as is bonham one of the biggest drummers in rock)....the beatles werent nearly the most technical band at all (just like there are many many more drummers more technical and that have more chops than bonham) but both in their own respect have opened new doors for later musicians that have taken inspiration from them and created new heights in the music business. Yes im a bonham fan. But to utterly (i think wayy misspelled) put him up on a pedalstule (also misspelled) and worship him as a100% god material is just hurting yourself in drumming and here in the forum.
And in no way is theduke and finnhiggins "trolling". Not at all. Just because they critize bonham and look at bonham asless of a god rather than a 100% god (as theduke said before) doesnt mean theyre trolling. If we all came to this forum praising bonham for being a god this wouldnt be a "discussion forum" (as it says on the drummerworld banner)....it would more like be a admiring forum for a drummer that is great but alot of his skill level has been surpassed. but dont get me wrong....he will always be the grandfather of rock drumming because he opened so many new doors for rock drummers but dont come on here saying theduke and figghiggins are trolling because they are giving bonham critizism. Thats just rediculious

[Bonham to the moon]

alrite, i dont wanna get off subject here, but i cant not say something. Having good chops isnt about who is faster, but how fills are applied to the song. Sure people can play faster than Bonham, but IMO no one has touched Bonham in applying amazing fills to every song he plays. Sure someone can listen to Moby Dick and figure out how to play it, but it was him who created it in his mind and layed it down on the record. Lots of artists can paint Starry Night, or the Mona Lisa, but the fact is, is that Da Vinci and Van Gogh are the ones who created them originally, thats why their famous. It sounds like you guys are putting down bonham because his speed can be duplicated. The same goes with Hendrix. Please find me a guitarist that has surpassed him in creating amazing riffs and solos, come on man.

[theduke86]

Bonham to the moon- As I said before, you couldn't be more right. That's why despite Bonham's lack of sheer complete technical virtuosity he is one of my favorite drummers ever. I say this with guarded tone, because to give him credit he had very good and clean technique and chops- he had some cool fast patterns worked out that are actually pretty difficult to learn at first.
The reason that sets him apart is how good and original his part selection was. I don't think we're putting him down. Faster is NOT better.
I think maybe you're thinking about what we're saying too much- I know Finn and I have the same opinion on chops- they're not even important to the strength of a musician. They are amusical factors. Someone can play fast and loud and shred and be perfectly musical or play very sparse and quiet and be perfectly musical and awesome as well. Look at who some of my favorite drummers are- Tony Williams, Elvin Jones, Vinnie Colautia, Paul Motian, Ahmir Thompson and John Bonham. At least on recordings, the last three don't really play much chops. However, they're STILL some of my favorite drummers in the whole world. Those three drummers are all incredible mindblowing musicians because they have great musical ideas. Chops have NOTHING to do with it. Sometimes I like to listen to the "drum porn" like a fusion Vinnie or Weckl, but they're still both musical.
http://www.keithcronin.com/licks/dyer_maker.mp3
I frickin' love this drum fill. It's one of my favorite fills in history. Technically speaking, most drummers on this site could probably learn to play this fill fairly quickly. To play it like Bonzo? I don't know if there's many. Maybe like Joe Morris or Gary Husband or Billy Ward out of the dudes on here right off the top of my head. What a great fill. I love everything he's ever been a part of- great conviction and sound. I could care less about a person's technique. I like to work technique a lot, maybe too much, but it's not a musical thing.B Bonham clearly had enough technique to pull off whatever he wanted extremely well. Finn or I have never claimed that Bonham was anything less than a legendary drummer. I think you're reading into it because chops don't matter for me.

[Bonham to the moon]

Alrite Duke, i can deffinetly agree with that

[fixmejesus]

Can we discuss things without ever using the words best or better?
Can we discuss things and people for what they are instead of always comparing it to something else as being better? Drum Sets, Players, Cymbals, Brands, anything?
Anyone?

So if someone brings up how apples are their favorite fruit, should we always have to respond the the orange is actually better? The orange has more vitamins, has a brighter color, and is right leaning politically? But we still like the apples, but the oranges are still better!

[MSTRKRFT]

Does anyone know what size this mounted tom is pictured here?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f33/pistolsatnoon/JB_Royal_Albert_Hall_9_jan_1970.jpg

Please answer quick, I need to know! Thanks. (Please make sure you're 100% positive)

[MSTRKRFT]

i'm pretty sure it's either a 10x14, or a 12x14, but i'm not really sure. a 12x14 just kind of seems too big.

[moe.ron]

too big for bonham thats a good one! its almost definitely a 10x14 there's almost no way to be 100% sure but i think he usually used a 10x14

[MSTRKRFT]

^ No no, I ment too big for what was in the picture, lol. so you're pretty sure it's a 10x14?

[Bonham to the moon]

nah, thats a 15 incher, deffinetly

[jangus]

Wikipedia says:

Ludwig endorsement kit, Ludwig Thermo Gloss Natural Maple, 14"x26" Bass Drum, 2nd Bass Drum used for some U.S 69"tour, 16"x18" & 16"x16" Floor Toms, 12"x14" Rack Tom (Mounted on snare stand), 6.5"x14" Chrome Supraphonic Snare, Two 12" Ludwig Congas, Ludwig Gold Tone Cowbell.

[pdp 9091]

Wikipedia says:

12"x14" Rack Tom (Mounted on snare stand).

ya but theres no snare stand....its mounted on the bass....im thinking its a 14X12.....bonham didnt use a 15 inch until later in the zeppelin days

[MSTRKRFT]

So whats the general thought? It's definatly not 10 deep and 14 wide, but could be 12 deep and 14 wide?