Remo or Evans?

[pcmckay]

I'm hoping to get feedback on which drumheads you guys like best the Remo coated Emperors or the Evans coated G2's? Thanks.

[Class A Drummer]

Right now im using the g2 coated and i love it, i prefer it to the Emperors probably. But what i really love is the Remo Coated Ambassodors, i think those are just great.

[bermuda]

My experience with Remo's 2-ply heads (Emperors and Pinstripes in particular) was that there was a severe quality control problem, resulting in a large percentage of heads that wouldn't tune proerly and sounded dead. Based on my experience, and trying to get 3 toms to sound good all at the same time, there was a failure rate of at least 25%. No kidding. More often than not, there was at least one tom on the kit that wouldn't tune. So actually, I'll give Remo the benefit of the doubt for the handful of times that all the toms did sound good, and say 25%.

Which is still a ridiculous amount of failed heads!

What failure rate is acceptable to me? Well, since I've been using Evans heads exclusively for almost six years, I've become spoiled... NONE of my Evans heads have had any problems - nada - zip - bupkis. Let's see, that works out to a 0% failure rate!

So to answer the specific question, I prefer G2s to Emperors.

But, do yourself a favor and try the EC2 heads, they are fabulous!

Bermuda

[bighaibigdrums]

In 25+ years of using Remos I have never experienced the problems you are talking about. If they were as bad as you say would they be the #1 selling brand on the planet?

[evans_69]

i couldnt get on with pinstripes, ambassodors or the g2 coateds so i bought myself a set of EC2's and have never looked back.....

[nickg]

My experience with Remo's 2-ply heads (Emperors and Pinstripes in particular) was that there was a severe quality control problem, resulting in a large percentage of heads that wouldn't tune proerly and sounded dead. Based on my experience, and trying to get 3 toms to sound good all at the same time, there was a failure rate of at least 25%. No kidding. More often than not, there was at least one tom on the kit that wouldn't tune. So actually, I'll give Remo the benefit of the doubt for the handful of times that all the toms did sound good, and say 25%.

Which is still a ridiculous amount of failed heads!

What failure rate is acceptable to me? Well, since I've been using Evans heads exclusively for almost six years, I've become spoiled... NONE of my Evans heads have had any problems - nada - zip - bupkis. Let's see, that works out to a 0% failure rate!

So to answer the specific question, I prefer G2s to Emperors.

But, do yourself a favor and try the EC2 heads, they are fabulous!

Bermuda

great answer bermuda. quality control issues everytime i bought remo heads caused me to quit using them years ago.

although i've endorsed ATTACK heads for the last 15 years i've used evans heads for a while after i abandoned remo. you can't go wrong with evans without a doubt!!

but take a look at ATTACK heads sometimes. they seem to be lost in the remo/evans/aquarian shuffle. but they have a great roster of endorsers and jeff ocheltree, drum tech extrordinaire, had just released his own signature ATTACK head sets. http://www.universalpercussion.com/och.htm

[mlehnertz]

Hey, you sound like an Evans endorsee...

What was it about the Remo heads? Was it always the same size head that was giving you problems or did it vary? I ask because 13" drums sound like garbage to me and maybe it's the head? Maybe it's the design of the shell?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to have "bad" heads because all a head is is a piece of mylar film stuck in a metal hoop with some glue. I've got to think the process is pretty straight-forward and there's not a lot of room for error.

My experience with Remo's 2-ply heads (Emperors and Pinstripes in particular) was that there was a severe quality control problem, resulting in a large percentage of heads that wouldn't tune proerly and sounded dead. Based on my experience, and trying to get 3 toms to sound good all at the same time, there was a failure rate of at least 25%. No kidding. More often than not, there was at least one tom on the kit that wouldn't tune. So actually, I'll give Remo the benefit of the doubt for the handful of times that all the toms did sound good, and say 25%.

[Drummer Karl]

Just a month ago I switched from Evans to Remo...I just love the Ambassadors...and also the Emperors. Warm, natural, not as punchy as the G2.
I used Evans for a long time, I also like their head (I am curious about the J1) but I noticed that Remo just makes heads which are perfect for me right now...

oh, if you wanna listen to them and me, check my recordings out:

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19609

so, Remo is just cool. (Evans, Aquarian etc., too of course but Remo *breathing deeply*, they are amazing) ;-)

Karl

[konaboy]

I used remo heads for 20+ years and just switched to Evans. I kept reading alot of good things about them and thought I'd give them a shot. I counldn't be happier. The evans heads seemed easier to tune and the coating lasts considerably longer. Put a coated G1 on my snare about 2 months ago and it's showing hardly any sign of wear, did that with an ambassador and within 7-8 hours of playing the coating was virtually gone in the center. I'll be sticking with Evans for awhile!

[AronMapex]

remo g2 coated =) :D

[konaboy]

remo g2 coated =) :D


Ummmm, G2's are evans, the remo equivelant is the Emperor.

[drumzac]

Ummmm, G2's are evans, the remo equivelant is the Emperor.

Ummmm it was a joke...

[bermuda]

Hey, you sound like an Evans endorsee...

What was it about the Remo heads? Was it always the same size head that was giving you problems or did it vary? I ask because 13" drums sound like garbage to me and maybe it's the head? Maybe it's the design of the shell?

It doesn't make a lot of sense to have "bad" heads because all a head is is a piece of mylar film stuck in a metal hoop with some glue. I've got to think the process is pretty straight-forward and there's not a lot of room for error.

I became an Evans endorser after repeated problems with Remo's 2-ply heads, and Remo's complete denial that were any QC problems!

Specifically, on a 2-ply head, the plies must lay flat against each other in order to vibrate properly (and therefore, in order to tune.) When either ply - and it was normally the underside ply - was even slightly wrinkled, the head wouldn't tune. Or at least it wouldn't sing.

That's what was occuring 25-33% of the time, on any of my three toms. The rest of the time, the toms in question sounded fine. So the only variable was the head, and there was almost always one bad head on one of the toms.

Yep, you bet that was frustrating, and even more frustrating to hear Remo deny there were problems.

Guess what - in almost 6 years of using Evans heads exclusively, I haven't had any bad 2-ply heads (or any other kind for that matter) from them. The reason? Either they don't make bad heads (ok, let's be honest here)... or they have great QC and pull the bad ones before they can get shipped (that sounds more like it)... or they're hand-picking heads just for me (yeah... right!)

Question for you Remo die-hards - do you ever go into a store and check the Remo heads by tapping them? Ever wonder why you have to do that? :)

Bermuda

[bermuda]

In 25+ years of using Remos I have never experienced the problems you are talking about. If they were as bad as you say would they be the #1 selling brand on the planet?

As for something being the #1 seller, Jack Daniels is the best-selling whiskey in the world. Yet we all know there's MUCH better whiskey than Jack!

Remo's market share has been eroded over the last decade in particular, by Aquarian and especially Evans, and while Remo is probably still #1 in head sales, it is by a diminishing margin each year.

And yes, I do have some figures to go with that. I visited about 50 stores across the country while on tour in 2003, and counted the head brands that each store had. These are the median percentages for all of those stores:

Aquarian 13%
Remo 49.53%
Evans 34.73%
Other 2.74%

No, it's not scientific. But yes, that's what the stores had. Now, there's no question that Remo must have had 90-95% of the market at times, and to go to roughly 50% is a HUGE drop. And, my figures are over 3 years old. I'm sure the numbers have shifted further, and I'd guess not in Remo's favor.

Anyway, I'd like the Remo Emperor or Pinstripe users to go pick out heads for their toms - WITHOUT tap testing them - and let me know the results after trying just 4 or 5 heads. Again, do NOT cherry pick the heads. I think those users are in for a surprise.

Bermuda

[Synthetik]

I just got back from trying a G-1 coated vs Remo amb. The G-1 was warmer and had better tonality.

I also prefer Aquarian heads (by a longshot) over Remo, because they are warmer and less plasticky sounding comparing the same type of heads.

Remo sells the most, but the others are better.

[bermuda]

I don't want anyone to think that I am completely down on Remo, and I will say that their 1-ply heads have a minimum of problems (like head pull-out, which I suppose can happen to any head with that kind of hoop.)

And if you hand-pick the 2-ply heads at a store with a good supply, yes, you can successfully separate the good Emperors and Pinstripes from the bad ones.

Or, you can just buy Evans or Aquarian right off the shelf without having to check them first. That means you can order them online for the best deals, without having to worry about inconsistencies.

I'd like to add a good word about Attack heads too, I've only tried a handful but each has been great. The only drawback with Attack is their limited availability.

Bermuda

[mlehnertz]

Specifically, on a 2-ply head, the plies must lay flat against each other in order to vibrate properly (and therefore, in order to tune.) When either ply - and it was normally the underside ply - was even slightly wrinkled, the head wouldn't tune. Or at least it wouldn't sing.

Makes sense. Too much tension on one head, too little on the other.

I'm curious how in the process of making a 2-ply head this would only happen on some of the heads and not all the heads. Different machines that get out of calibration and create a batch of lousy heads? We'll sell them as poor quality and replace the ones where people complain? Get Mulder on this...

Guess what - in almost 6 years of using Evans heads exclusively, I haven't had any bad 2-ply heads (or any other kind for that matter) from them. The reason? Either they don't make bad heads (ok, let's be honest here)... or they have great QC and pull the bad ones before they can get shipped (that sounds more like it)... or they're hand-picking heads just for me (yeah... right!)

Well, they COULD be pulling the better heads for you. You take care of the guys that are selling heads for you. They could also have better QC because they are required to in order to keep up with Remo. It's also the case that Remos QC sucks now because they feel their heads are going to sell regardless of the quality?


Question for you Remo die-hards - do you ever go into a store and check the Remo heads by tapping them? Ever wonder why you have to do that? :)


I feel stupid for asking this, but why do you tape Remo heads? Do they buzz or something?

At any rate, I still hate 13" toms. I also guess I've been lucky in that I haven't gotten what I think is a bad head. It could be my shells or my tuning too.

[bermuda]

I'm curious how in the process of making a 2-ply head this would only happen on some of the heads and not all the heads.
It really shouldn't happen at all, but obviously there are anomalies, and I suppose that Evans must have some bad runs now and then. But the 2-ply thing at Remo was rampant! At any rate, that's what QC is for - to weed out the product that's not up to spec. If Evans is producing bad heads, they're not getting to the stores. But when Remo makes bad heads, they cheerfully ship them out right along with the good ones.

Well, they COULD be pulling the better heads for you. You take care of the guys that are selling heads for you. They could also have better QC because they are required to in order to keep up with Remo. It's also the case that Remos QC sucks now because they feel their heads are going to sell regardless of the quality?
It's a lovely thought that they would take special care of me, but they don't. My heads come straight off the shelf in an L.A. warehouse, which also serves a number of stores. Besides, I've purchased more than a few Evans heads at retail (sometimes I need a head right now) and none of them have had problems either.

Remo's QC has always been poor. The 'tap test' has been employed by drummers for as long as I can remember, and evidently, drummers think everything's okay since they've hand-picked good heads. The irony of that process never sinks-in though, and I was just as guilty for years. I guess I thought that's how head selection goes... sort of like rolling drumsticks to find the straight ones.

But, Evans manages to put out 100% consistent heads, at least that's been my experience over 6 years and a LOT of snare, tom and kick heads. Either their manufacturing is better than Remo's, or the QC is better - it's one or the other. But the fact is, Remo's 2-ply heads are problematic, and Evans' are not.

As for why Evans and Aquarian have taken such a big bite out of Remo's marketshare, I think that it's partially a QC issue, but also a question of selection. Really, all of the big 3 head companies have some stand-out products. I think that Evans and Aquarian have been more inventive lately, and Remo is doing their best to stay just as inventive. Yes, the Ambassador is hard to beat (I mean that in a good way) but Remo can no longer rest on its laurels as it has done for decades.

Interestingly, a few people have told me that Remo has corrected it's problems with the Emperors and Pinstripes. How is that possible? Remo told me in 2000 - while I was still pulling bad heads off store shelves - that they didn't have any manufacturing or QC problems!

I guess I'm mostly mad at myself for tolerating Remo for so long. Anyway, Evans heads have been trouble-free for me.

Bermuda

[sacco]

Specifically, on a 2-ply head, the plies must lay flat against each other in order to vibrate properly (and therefore, in order to tune.) When either ply - and it was normally the underside ply - was even slightly wrinkled, the head wouldn't tune. Or at least it wouldn't sing.
Bermuda

I can confirm by personal experience that the underside ply of Remo Pinstripes is not always flat, so that the head is finally useless. It is always good to inspect a head before buying it, and holding it by the hoop and taping it with a stick or even with fingers can immediately show if it is OK or not.

[bermuda]

I can confirm by personal experience that the underside ply of Remo Pinstripes is not always flat, so that the head is finally useless. It is always good to inspect a head before buying it, and holding it by the hoop and taping it with a stick or even with fingers can immediately show if it is OK or not.

And as I've pointed out, doesn't anyone see the irony in having to do that??

Truly, it's not a big problem if there's a good head selection at a big store. But what if you're buying heads from a small music store without a big enough selection, and all the 'good' heads have been picked out already? What if you're ordering online, and can't test the heads at all?

With Evans, every head is right. There's no separating the good from the bad - you pull a box off the shelf and the head inside is right. There's no need to open it until the head is ready to be used. Period. So, big selection or small, online or not, every head is a winner.

Here it is in a nutshell - I was a Remo endorser for 16 years. I never, and I repeat NEVER ordered heads from them! Why? Because Remo heads have to be hand-picked! I didn't imagine in my wildest dreams that they'd do that for me. I always had to choose them myself, because the head quality varied so much. It's so funny how everyone - myself included - just took it for granted!

Finally, I got tired of it being so funny. With Evans, I order heads, and they're perfect. No joke.

Bermuda

[mlehnertz]

In those 6 years, things may have changed over at Remo. Increased competition, loss of market share and Remo may have changed their QC procedures.

I'm due for a new set of heads so I'll take a look at all the Emperors my local drum store has to see if there are what appear to be lemons in the stock.

Interestingly, a few people have told me that Remo has corrected it's problems with the Emperors and Pinstripes. How is that possible? Remo told me in 2000 - while I was still pulling bad heads off store shelves - that they didn't have any manufacturing or QC problems!

[dizkneelande]

ive actually had one bad evans head a few years ago. im gonna try aquarians soon to feel em out, have you looked at those?

[bermuda]

ive actually had one bad evans head a few years ago.

One? Not bad, considering the amount of bad Remo heads I've personally encountered.

Was it one of the D'addario made heads? Prior to about 95, the quality would have been different. When D'addario took over, everything changed for the better for the Evans heads.

Bermuda

[mlehnertz]

Next thing you're going to tell us is that Dean Markley made drum sticks.

Was it one of the D'addario made heads? Prior to about 95, the quality would have been different. When D'addario took over, everything changed for the better for the Evans heads.

Bermuda

[nickg]

I'd like to add a good word about Attack heads too, I've only tried a handful but each has been great. The only drawback with Attack is their limited availability.


Interstate Music has a great selection of Attack heads at GREAT prices!!!

[aceman]

Being an Evans fan for a few years mysef, I can't remember getting a bad head from them either. With that said, I do think that the Coated EC2 is possibly the worst sounding head I've ever played. I can't believe I blew $80.00 for a set of those things! I'll never stray again from the tried and true G2.

[drumzac]

I've had MANY issues with Evans heads about 3-4 years ago and haven't played them since. Every single head I had, which were G2 Clear over G1 Clear, EQ4 Clear over EQ3 Black, and Reverse Power Dot over Hazy 300.

I found every single Evans head died within a month. They ended up sounding like a dull, lifeless thud. I also found they wouldn't tune back to life no matter what I tried. They just wouldn't budge.

Don't get me started on the EMAD issue. I bought one while on vacation, brought it home, put it on, followed the directions for the plastic ring and it still rattled and started to fall off over a short period of time. I contact Evans about this and they replaced it but the second one did the exact same.

Based off my accounts above I haven't used an Evans head since. But I'm more than willing to try them again and see what happens. I'm thinking of this combination:

Toms

Batter: Clear G2
Resonant: Clear G1

Bass

Batter: EQ4 Clear
Resonant: EQ3 Frosted

Snare 1

Batter: Reverse Power Dot
Resonant: Hazy 200

Snare 2

Batter: G1 Coated
Resonant: Hazy 300

[gr82bagn]

I've been hitting the EC2 clears on my toms for about two months now and they are holding up well. The EC snare reverse dot is fresh on my snare (1 week) and I really like the sound. It did a good job of getting rid of some overtones without losing the sound of the snare. So all in all based on my experience I give these particular heads a two thumbs up.

[Mediocrefunkybeat]

Drumzac, this is a little extreme, but I've had the same heads on my kit for a year now, due to a severe lack of any funds. I've found the opposite, my heads still sound great after all this time. I would give them another go and see what happens, but I'm still definitely getting a lot of tone and life from these heads. When I eventually get around to replacing them all it's either going to be Evans or Aquarian. I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards Aquarian.

[max77]

I have on my toms :
10X9 , 12X10 and 14X12

Batter : G2 Coated
Resonance : G1 Coated

And I'm pleased with the sound.

[pcmckay]

I really appreciate the tons of info you guys have given me so far, great responses. I'm still having a lot of trouble with the Remo Coated Emperors and the next time I need heads I'm really thinking of trying out the Evans Coated G2's. Thanks again for the great information!

[drumzac]

I really appreciate the tons of info you guys have given me so far, great responses. I'm still having a lot of trouble with the Remo Coated Emperors and the next time I need heads I'm really thinking of trying out the Evans Coated G2's. Thanks again for the great information!

I've used Remo almost exclusively since I started drumming 15 years ago. I used Evans for about 1-2 years and had trouble with them as I previously stated. I also recently tried Aquarian and LOVED them.

The reason why I'm posting...I'm also having trouble with Remo Coated Emperors. I couldn't get them to seat, I couldn't tune them, and they still sound like garbage. I know it certainly can't be my drums (Sonor Force 3005).

I'm thinking of trying Evans again one more time. If I have great results I will stick with Evans, but I'm still quite iffy because of my past experience with Evans.

[oiboiluis]

Remo heads are alot better in my opinion. Evans is known for there "superior" coating. But besides that Evans doesnt have much on Remo. Remo has many different styles of heads to choose from that are all great heads. I'm sure Remo has a head to match for every Evans head and more.

[evans_69]

never had a prob with evans heads.....imo i prefer evans and aquarian.... i used to use the pinstripes but replaced them not long ago with EC2'S and in my opinion they are fatter, louder, have better resonence and also look better lol....so its seems it's each to there own again..

[Bad Drummer]

I would say neither to be honest. I go to a local drum shop and one of the guys who works there is amazing a tuning and head selection. He doesn't like Evans that much because they are so funky to tune at times. He likes Remo a lot but I think the emperor coating is off WAY too quickly. My advice would be to go with an Aquarian double ply head. The double-thins are out of production now, so I would go with the Response-2s. The coating lasts, and they sound great. Just my two cents.

[pcmckay]

I've used Remo almost exclusively since I started drumming 15 years ago. I used Evans for about 1-2 years and had trouble with them as I previously stated. I also recently tried Aquarian and LOVED them.

The reason why I'm posting...I'm also having trouble with Remo Coated Emperors. I couldn't get them to seat, I couldn't tune them, and they still sound like garbage. I know it certainly can't be my drums (Sonor Force 3005).

I'm thinking of trying Evans again one more time. If I have great results I will stick with Evans, but I'm still quite iffy because of my past experience with Evans.

If you get the Evans heads could you post a response here and let me know if you had any luck. Thanks for the information.

[pcmckay]

I would say neither to be honest. I go to a local drum shop and one of the guys who works there is amazing a tuning and head selection. He doesn't like Evans that much because they are so funky to tune at times. He likes Remo a lot but I think the emperor coating is off WAY too quickly. My advice would be to go with an Aquarian double ply head. The double-thins are out of production now, so I would go with the Response-2s. The coating lasts, and they sound great. Just my two cents.

Thanks for the response. That has been my problem with the coated emperors, the coating comes off within days and it changes the sound of the head. Then it becomes harder to tune. I may have to check out Aquarian also. Thanks again.

[ludwig guy]

evans have been my choice for all of my drums. The EC2 works greatly on the toms, the Power Center Reverse dot Is great when tuned high, and the Emad is a great bass head.

Remo pinstripe are less durable, although the coated ambassadors are close, evans is still worth taking a look at, they are extremely durable and sound great.

[cjl71178]

I've been an Evans player for many years now and I would never go back to Remo. I have not had one bad drumhead from Evans yet. I'm not cutting down Remo at all because before I tried Evans, that's all I ever used and Remo does make good stuff. IMO, the evans heads just last better for me and they still sound great when I'm ready to change them. I could never wear the coating off a G2 or a G1 compared to a coated emperor or ambassador.

It's all in the player's preference.